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(Slate)   So is it 'fall' or is it 'autumn?' And why is it the only season with two names?   (slate.com) divider line 196
    More: Interesting, Samuel Johnson, English speakers  
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12279 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Oct 2012 at 4:15 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 09:10:46 PM
whatever. it's your choice.
 
2012-10-01 09:22:47 PM
This is farking easy.

It's Fall when you're talking about the season.

It's Autumn when you've already got daughters named Summer, Spring and Winter.

You're welcome.
 
2012-10-01 09:23:32 PM
Because time travelling autistics savants from the future lobbied congress for their own season.

This is also why we have asshautism on Fark.
 
2012-10-01 09:40:16 PM
In Australia, anyone using 'Fall' instead of 'Autumn' would be accused of using an Americanism. It's very interesting to note that it's a traditional Saxon word which is arguably more historically accurate. I'll use it from now on just to make a smartarse of myself correcting those who correct me. I'll have to wait five months though - it's a delightful Spring in my part of the world right now.
 
2012-10-01 10:03:06 PM
Also in Australia there is an odd hatred of Halloween. I have twice witnessed a child being dressed down by a cranky older stranger in a shop for getting excited about Halloween costumes. "Its an American Holiday!!!! This is Australia!!!!"
 
2012-10-01 10:08:10 PM

Ravengirl: Also in Australia there is an odd hatred of Halloween. I have twice witnessed a child being dressed down by a cranky older stranger in a shop for getting excited about Halloween costumes. "Its an American Holiday!!!! This is Australia!!!!"


How sad :(
Halloween is a fun and unique holiday, and I love to see kids get excited about it like I did. I also tend to think that people who are willing to really get into it are probably more fun people :) Plus, nothing like a good sugar-and-alcohol-fueled costume party, hehe.
 
2012-10-01 10:35:03 PM

Bucky Katt: whatever. it's your choice.


I choose equinox.
 
2012-10-01 10:52:00 PM

Teufelaffe: idsfa: My dog calls them (in decreasing order of preference):

White (Winter)
Pounce (Fall)
Wet (Spring)
Hot (Summer)

Your dog is Mitt Romney?



Mittens knows nothing about hot, wet or pounce.
 
2012-10-01 10:54:53 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: I don't care what you call it, but it's still farking hot.

2012 is going to be the year of the endless summer, at this rate.


Speak for yourself, right now I've begun the annual war with myself to see how long I can last before the heat gets turned on. So far as it has only been in the 40's an 50's overnight, it's been okay and I've not needed the heat, just an extra blanket.

/I'll probably give in when it gets down into the 30's overnight in a few days as has been predicted.
 
2012-10-01 11:03:46 PM
i always thought autumn was early in the season (august, september) and fall was late in the season (october, nov)
 
2012-10-01 11:11:09 PM
Newsflash there are 5 main English speaking nations (6 if you include India but I doubt that is worth debating at this point except to point out they actually have the highest english speaking population)

2 of them call it "fall" (USA and Canada, Canada less so)

3 of them call it Autumn
 
2012-10-01 11:25:25 PM

Slartibartfaster: Newsflash there are 5 main English speaking nations (6 if you include India but I doubt that is worth debating at this point except to point out they actually have the highest english speaking population)

2 of them call it "fall" (USA and Canada, Canada less so)

3 of them call it Autumn


And in Canada we go either way. Soda Pop.

/Just don't call the roof a 'Ruff'.
//By accident, not on accident
///you scratch the itch, you do not itch said itch.
////DD/MM/YY
 
2012-10-01 11:32:17 PM
What about Indian Summer? This season has three, not two names. FARK political correctness.
 
2012-10-01 11:39:21 PM
2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-01 11:40:25 PM
Fall=Autumn=Sweaterpuppies
 
2012-10-01 11:58:34 PM

FloydA: FTA: Fall is better on the merits than autumn, in every way: it is short

Autumn= 6 letters
Winter = 6 letters
Summer = 6 letters
Spring = 6 letters

I don't see how fall being "short" makes it preferable.

(I don't really care which word anyone prefers, but that struck me as a really silly argument. I can bear diversity in the names of the seasons, but I've been on Fark for too long to let a stupid argument pass without comment.)


I think you have me on 'ignore', so you can't see this, but you've just farked my OCD. I'll never be able to call it 'fall' again*.

* in writing. Spoken, 'Fall' still works for me as it is a single syllable and the opposite of 'Spring', also a single syllable

/winter & summer: opposites and two syllables
 
2012-10-02 12:01:30 AM

Ravengirl: Also in Australia there is an odd hatred of Halloween. I have twice witnessed a child being dressed down by a cranky older stranger in a shop for getting excited about Halloween costumes. "Its an American Holiday!!!! This is Australia!!!!"


Well, it kind of is, as it has been promoted. I grew up in Australia, born there in 1965. There was no Halloween. I was taken to the US in 75, and halloween was completely foreign to me. Never liked it much.
 
2012-10-02 12:19:23 AM
I call it Fall because I can do whatever I want.
 
2012-10-02 12:31:51 AM
English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European and Germanic languages do not get along.

Is it a chair or stool? They don't respond to different types of resting apparatus; they're two words with the exact same meaning.

Is it a door or a portal?

Fall or Autumn?

This goes on for a good 20% of the language.
 
2012-10-02 01:59:38 AM

Spartacus Outlaw: Never liked it much.


That's cool, and I can understand not wanting to participate in a holiday you didn't grow up with. However, I can't undersatnd hating a holiday so much you harass little children for wanting to play dress-ups.
 
2012-10-02 02:19:22 AM

Ravengirl: Spartacus Outlaw: Never liked it much.

That's cool, and I can understand not wanting to participate in a holiday you didn't grow up with. However, I can't undersatnd hating a holiday so much you harass little children for wanting to play dress-ups.


I can field this one. It's not that the oldies in quesion were harassing kids for playing dress-ups. It's that older Australians regard the United Kingdom as "the old country" and see American culture as having a severely negative impact on us. If the kids were just dressing up for Halloween even that would probably have been fine, it's the associated trick-or-treating which is seen as uncouth by many Australians.

I'm 37 and when I was a kid no one did this. These days, we probably get two or three knocks on the door at Halloween and even then we've usually forgotten to stock up on treats most years.
 
2012-10-02 03:43:17 AM
Northern Hemisphere problems.
 
2012-10-02 03:58:47 AM

Aussie_As: Ravengirl: Spartacus Outlaw: Never liked it much.

That's cool, and I can understand not wanting to participate in a holiday you didn't grow up with. However, I can't undersatnd hating a holiday so much you harass little children for wanting to play dress-ups.

I can field this one. It's not that the oldies in quesion were harassing kids for playing dress-ups. It's that older Australians regard the United Kingdom as "the old country" and see American culture as having a severely negative impact on us. If the kids were just dressing up for Halloween even that would probably have been fine, it's the associated trick-or-treating which is seen as uncouth by many Australians.

I'm 37 and when I was a kid no one did this. These days, we probably get two or three knocks on the door at Halloween and even then we've usually forgotten to stock up on treats most years.


There's also the pumpkins and bobbing for apples thing, which isn't really spring-like. Weird how all of the wintery symbols of Christmas are celebrated down here, in the middle of summer, but Halloween feels wrong.
 
2012-10-02 04:15:30 AM
I prefer Autumn. I was gonna post some of my favorite Autumn pics but they're NSFW.
 
2012-10-02 04:27:33 AM
It's Winter Lite.
 
2012-10-02 05:15:26 AM

Aussie_As: older Australians regard the United Kingdom as "the old country"


And I would totally buy into that if it weren't for the fact that Halloween is celebreated in the UK.
 
2012-10-02 05:22:05 AM

Ravengirl: Aussie_As: older Australians regard the United Kingdom as "the old country"

And I would totally buy into that if it weren't for the fact that Halloween is celebreated in the UK.


I wouldn't say it was celebrated here, it's in much the same way it is in Australia I'm afraid. It's not embraced like it is in the USA, and a large portion of the population likes to tut and bemoan the fact that it's an American holiday.
 
2012-10-02 06:13:25 AM

Aussie_As: Ravengirl: Spartacus Outlaw: Never liked it much.

That's cool, and I can understand not wanting to participate in a holiday you didn't grow up with. However, I can't undersatnd hating a holiday so much you harass little children for wanting to play dress-ups.

I can field this one. It's not that the oldies in quesion were harassing kids for playing dress-ups. It's that older Australians regard the United Kingdom as "the old country" and see American culture as having a severely negative impact on us. If the kids were just dressing up for Halloween even that would probably have been fine, it's the associated trick-or-treating which is seen as uncouth by many Australians.

I'm 37 and when I was a kid no one did this. These days, we probably get two or three knocks on the door at Halloween and even then we've usually forgotten to stock up on treats most years.


When the US celebrates ANZAC Day I'll celebrate Halloween and consider it a legitimate holiday. In the meantime it's a day businesses try to make money.
 
2012-10-02 06:35:37 AM

Slaxl: Ravengirl: Aussie_As: older Australians regard the United Kingdom as "the old country"

And I would totally buy into that if it weren't for the fact that Halloween is celebreated in the UK.

I wouldn't say it was celebrated here, it's in much the same way it is in Australia I'm afraid. It's not embraced like it is in the USA, and a large portion of the population likes to tut and bemoan the fact that it's an American holiday.


I figured this. I've watched about as much UK tv as US tv and never seen much made of Halloween.

The problem with Australia is we don't do much at Guy Fawkes either. That always seemed cooler to me as a kid growing up than Halloween. None of the "Australian" holidays (eg Anzac Day, Australia Day) seem to offer much special to kids (especially sugar addicts or pyromanics).
 
2012-10-02 09:51:40 AM
autumn, fall, & the Harvest - the season so nice they named it thrice
 
2012-10-02 10:35:23 AM

Pocket Ninja: 3) The sentence you are using contains one or more of the following words: "whom," "irregardless," "apropos," "whilst," or "saturnine."


One of these things is not like the others.
 
2012-10-02 11:50:00 AM
Everyone knows that the five seasons are actually called Sweet, Boom, Pungent, Prickle, and Orange.
 
2012-10-02 11:56:15 AM

Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.
 
2012-10-02 03:13:30 PM

FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.


You forgot Finnish
 
2012-10-02 04:21:35 PM
files.abovetopsecret.com
 
2012-10-02 05:27:21 PM

cman: FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.

You forgot Finnish


Is it? I was under the impression that the Indo-Uralic relationship was pretty widely accepted. I don't know, this is outside of my field; I haven't really looked into it in more than a decade, and then only superficially. I really thought Basque was the only surviving non-IE isolate. Can you recommend any good references? Thanks.
 
2012-10-02 05:33:06 PM

FloydA: cman: FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.

You forgot Finnish

Is it? I was under the impression that the Indo-Uralic relationship was pretty widely accepted. I don't know, this is outside of my field; I haven't really looked into it in more than a decade, and then only superficially. I really thought Basque was the only surviving non-IE isolate. Can you recommend any good references? Thanks.


Finnic languages are not related to Indo-European. The two biggies are Estonian and Finnish. I got this all from Wikipedia.
 
2012-10-02 07:40:02 PM

cman: FloydA: cman: FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.

You forgot Finnish

Is it? I was under the impression that the Indo-Uralic relationship was pretty widely accepted. I don't know, this is outside of my field; I haven't really looked into it in more than a decade, and then only superficially. I really thought Basque was the only surviving non-IE isolate. Can you recommend any good references? Thanks.

Finnic languages are not related to Indo-European. The two biggies are Estonian and Finnish. I got this all from Wikipedia.


Interesting. I had been under the impression that within the "Nostratic" superfamily, the Uralic languages were closer to PIE than Altaic. I knew that "Nostratic" was considered a controversial grouping, but I didn't realize it had been abandoned.

Granted, I only know about any of this stuff indirectly, through archaeologists' attempts to translate 1960s era Russian linguists, for our own purposes, but I thought Nostratic was at least a viable hypothesis among linguists.

Ya learn something new every day.
 
2012-10-02 07:46:41 PM

FloydA: cman: FloydA: cman: FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.

You forgot Finnish

Is it? I was under the impression that the Indo-Uralic relationship was pretty widely accepted. I don't know, this is outside of my field; I haven't really looked into it in more than a decade, and then only superficially. I really thought Basque was the only surviving non-IE isolate. Can you recommend any good references? Thanks.

Finnic languages are not related to Indo-European. The two biggies are Estonian and Finnish. I got this all from Wikipedia.

Interesting. I had been under the impression that within the "Nostratic" superfamily, the Uralic languages were closer to PIE than Altaic. I knew that "Nostratic" was considered a controversial grouping, but I didn't realize it had been abandoned.

Granted, I only know about any of this stuff indirectly, through archaeologists' attempts to translate 1960s era Russian linguists, for our own purposes, but I thought Nostratic was at least a viable hypothesis among linguists.

Ya learn something new every day.


All I know I have learned from Wikipedia and Encarta when it was still around. I wish I could go and have practical experience. Linguistics interest me moreso than other subjects. I have no idea why that is, why I am drawn towards it. Specifically speaking, my favorite study language is Old English. I can read about ~55% (without cheating using a translator, goes up to ~70% with a translator program) of the native language of the E edition of the Anglo-Saxon chronicles. The hardest part is the obsolete spelling, especially when it uses inflections.
 
2012-10-02 08:33:49 PM
cman:

Are you familiar with Kevin Stroud's History of English podcast? If not, you might enjoy it. It's interesting stuff.
 
2012-10-02 08:38:46 PM

FloydA: cman:

Are you familiar with Kevin Stroud's History of English podcast? If not, you might enjoy it. It's interesting stuff.


Thanks for the link. I gotta subscribe to it.
 
2012-10-02 08:44:57 PM
cman:

Cheers.

Now I really should get back to drinkworking. Ēadigne ǣfen giet.
 
2012-10-02 10:33:04 PM

cman: FloydA: cman: FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.

You forgot Finnish

Is it? I was under the impression that the Indo-Uralic relationship was pretty widely accepted. I don't know, this is outside of my field; I haven't really looked into it in more than a decade, and then only superficially. I really thought Basque was the only surviving non-IE isolate. Can you recommend any good references? Thanks.

Finnic languages are not related to Indo-European. The two biggies are Estonian and Finnish. I got this all from Wikipedia.


I thought there was a Hungarian/Finnish link.
 
2012-10-03 06:55:50 PM

lohphat: cman: FloydA: cman: FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.

You forgot Finnish

Is it? I was under the impression that the Indo-Uralic relationship was pretty widely accepted. I don't know, this is outside of my field; I haven't really looked into it in more than a decade, and then only superficially. I really thought Basque was the only surviving non-IE isolate. Can you recommend any good references? Thanks.

Finnic languages are not related to Indo-European. The two biggies are Estonian and Finnish. I got this all from Wikipedia.

I thought there was a Hungarian/Finnish link.


There is.

This is a quite interesting summary
 
2012-10-03 07:01:49 PM

FloydA: cman: FloydA: Jedekai: English is a language that is the result of why Indo-European Romance/Italic and Germanic languages do not get along.


The Germanic languages and the Romance languages are all Indo-European. IIRC, Basque (Euskara) is the only living non-Indo-European language in Europe.

You forgot Finnish

Is it? I was under the impression that the Indo-Uralic relationship was pretty widely accepted. I don't know, this is outside of my field; I haven't really looked into it in more than a decade, and then only superficially. I really thought Basque was the only surviving non-IE isolate. Can you recommend any good references? Thanks.


Basque is the only surviving isolate in Europe, but there are other non-Indo-European languages in Europe that are not isolates, as they are part of other families (Finnish, Hungarian, etc.).

More here
 
2012-10-03 07:21:05 PM
Equatus noxus
 
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