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(The New York Times)   Regardless of who wins in November, prepare to say goodbye to the payroll tax cut   (nytimes.com) divider line 34
    More: Sad, fragile state, Senate Budget Committee, tax cuts, Capitol Hill, Christine Lagarde, wage earners  
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2844 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Oct 2012 at 11:24 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-10-01 11:13:21 AM  
3 votes:
I'm ok with this. The extra funds gained were never going to be enough to provide effective economic stimulus for most people, and the potential long term damage to the SS trust fund was huge.
2012-10-01 11:11:14 AM  
3 votes:

Lurking Fear: hillbillypharmacist

TEMPORARY TAX HOLIDAY IS EXPIRING under HIS WATCH (lots of drool and babbling edited).


What part of temporary is so hard to understand, shiatforbrains?


Damn do you suck at snark.
2012-10-01 10:44:08 AM  
3 votes:
Good. It should go too.
2012-10-01 01:47:07 PM  
2 votes:

wotthefark: can invest in more capital and use more employees.


companies hire when they need additional workers, not when they have spare money laying around. trickle down economics don't work - we have farking 30 years of evidence for that. stop being a jackass.
2012-10-01 01:32:10 PM  
2 votes:

Dr Dreidel: wotthefark: Why not just lift the Social Security Wage Base from $110100 to all payroll like medicare??? Everybody gets 4.2% including employers.

Because SS payouts are capped, too. The typical response to that proposal is that removing the contribution cap makes SS even more of a wealth-transfer type of program. Keeping payouts capped while uncapping contributions means it's a guaranteed screw-job for people making above the cap. Removing the cap on payouts as well would defeat the purpose of uncapping contributions.

I think it'd be a great idea to remove the cap on contributions, but (once again) the rich'd scream bloody murder if they had to live by the rules that normal folks do.

// did I just say the same thing 4 times?
// maybe, and also perhaps, perchance and conceivably


Social Security has what it calls "bend points" above which every additional dollar of earnings yields a smaller increase in your monthly benefit. For instance, in 2012, the first $767 of average monthly earnings produces a benefit of $0.90 per dollar, while additional earnings up to $4,624 boosts monthly payments by $0.32 and income above that increases a payment by $0.15.

If the assumption that benefits will continue at their current levels left unchecked, benefits would have to drop by about a quarter in the year 2033 because of shortfalls between the amount of payroll taxes collected and benefits owed to retirees.

So add another bend point on those that make above $110100. Make it .05 it still is more cost effective to cut lower income contributions. If they give a shiat about "the job creators" then cutting payroll tax contributions to lower income workers from the employer is beneficial to everyone. You get higher demand form the "middle class" and lower tax expenses in which companies can invest in more capital and use more employees.

"It ain't rocket surgery". Social Security is a bad deal for anyone who has been in the job market since 1995.

www.blogcdn.com

The only "benefit" is to single earner couples because of spousal benefits. Increase the amount with no limit on the $110100 and the "benefit" becomes greater with more solvency. You are getting screwed any way. The majority of employees on payroll are making less than $60,000 a year. Cut that by 2 percentage points to the employer and increase the limit. Tada.

It's a "tax cut" for employers and employees. It's a tax hike for those making over $110100.
2012-10-01 01:04:49 PM  
2 votes:
Yes. Say goodbye to the tax cut that was starving an already critical Social Security system. It was just as much of a sham as the Bush $300 tax refund. Sooner or later, you were going to pay it back anyway.
2012-10-01 11:28:57 AM  
2 votes:
For the love of christ, let the tax cuts die. I'm in my last semester for my degree and working and even I know that the only way this country is going to get back economically, you need to let the tax cuts die.

/electrical engineering student, not doing electrical engineering
//still end up paying me for the degree
///still not as great as getting paid incredibly well for tech support :D
2012-10-01 10:46:05 AM  
2 votes:
mlkshk.com
2012-10-01 05:32:33 PM  
1 votes:

Kazan: once upon i time i actually posted about 3 posts worth of citations for it. didn't make a difference, all the farkwits just ignored the science.

someday i'll be pissed enough to do full citations again. then i'll save that biatch in a txt file, and every time it comes up again. BOOM KNOWLEDGE BOMB.


you find a citation that proves risks to your health if someone is smoking a joint in their house and we'll talk. You've never done that.
2012-10-01 03:29:56 PM  
1 votes:

Kazan: Marine1: Kazan: Marine1: [crybaby stoner]

get a job, and a life.

Dude... I don't touch weed and have a job.

It's just a fact that there are some good policies that Obama has just ignored.

i dislike both sides of the drug argument.. one is whiny, and the other is controlling. and neither side's solution is acceptable for me.


pot should be legalized, regulated like alcohol and taxed. Next.
2012-10-01 02:23:42 PM  
1 votes:

skullkrusher:

cutting the cost of labor would make the threshold for increased hiring lower.


Hmm so you favour the south-east asian model for your country? Extremely low wage workers in vast numbers with a tiny oligarchy of rich ruling classes?

Nice to know what your end-game is. The only question I have to ask is what new first-world economy is going to buy the products of your vast new second-world manufacturing economy? Your current consumer base is going to earn fark all in this mode.
2012-10-01 01:24:50 PM  
1 votes:

Dr Dreidel: We're going from 4% to 6.2% (and the self-employeds are going from 10% to 12.2%) IIRC. And because we were all paying attention, we know that the payroll tax only applies to income up to $110k.


oh shiat.. i totally forgot that... holy crap
2012-10-01 01:13:56 PM  
1 votes:
Ah, politics at its purest: government trying to bribe us with our own money.
2012-10-01 01:12:09 PM  
1 votes:

TV's Vinnie: Yes. Say goodbye to the tax cut that was starving an already critical Social Security system.


Nope.
2012-10-01 12:56:46 PM  
1 votes:

Blue_Blazer: Good thing the recession is over. So you're on board with increasing taxes now right?


lulz. I love when people find themselves smart because they adhere to the technical, textbook definition of "recession". What do you think suddenly taking $1,000 out of the hands of the average American worker will do to our non-recessionary economy?
2012-10-01 12:29:41 PM  
1 votes:

skullkrusher: for most people, that 3rd grade level coverage is enough - it is enough to know that this policy will result in less $ for you and your family or that one will give you more money to spend. That's all most people really give a shiat about anyway.


And lord knows, when your job is to keep people informed, it's smart to give people just enough that they are satisfied. Any more and they might turn off the news and watch Honey Boo Boo.

IF people can have the NFL ref lockout explained to them, they can have the difference between federal, state and local taxes explained to them. I mean, how many people even understand the REALLY stupid shiat, like "Property Taxes Fund Public Education in the Townships they are Paid" and "Gas Taxes Build Roads"? How many people know what payroll taxes ARE? Or how they are deducted and withheld? Or who pays how much of them?

How many people know what "progressive taxation" or could identify what taxes THEY PAY as regressive or progressive?

Basically, fark people. Especially fark people who say shiat like "Y U raise taxes?" They get spurned now. I'm out of energy as far as that conversation's concerned. When that person is a CPA, they get super-spurned. And when that person is a tax professional, they get laughed at. Brazenly.
2012-10-01 12:28:40 PM  
1 votes:
By the Republicans definition, this constitutes raising taxes. Where is your Grover now?
2012-10-01 12:01:57 PM  
1 votes:

wotthefark: Why not just lift the Social Security Wage Base from $110100 to all payroll like medicare??? Everybody gets 4.2% including employers.


Because SS payouts are capped, too. The typical response to that proposal is that removing the contribution cap makes SS even more of a wealth-transfer type of program. Keeping payouts capped while uncapping contributions means it's a guaranteed screw-job for people making above the cap. Removing the cap on payouts as well would defeat the purpose of uncapping contributions.

I think it'd be a great idea to remove the cap on contributions, but (once again) the rich'd scream bloody murder if they had to live by the rules that normal folks do.

// did I just say the same thing 4 times?
// maybe, and also perhaps, perchance and conceivably
2012-10-01 11:52:08 AM  
1 votes:
Tax the rich, feed the poor.
2012-10-01 11:51:57 AM  
1 votes:

Holocaust Agnostic: GAT_00: Dusk-You-n-Me: GAT_00: Which really doesn't make things that much better.

Just making sure we're all on the same page.

Oh it's a good thing to point out. But while it is good that the trust fund isn't being cratered more, the loss to the general fund isn't exactly good either.

Why?


Tax cuts don't stimulate much growth. You get much better returns on investment by creating projects and deficit spending that way, rather than handing back money to people who probably already had money in the first place. You get more by moving people from not spending to spending than by getting spenders to spend a little more.
2012-10-01 11:48:57 AM  
1 votes:
As long as the income tax rates for the wealthy go back to pre-2001 levels, I will be ok paying more in payroll tax. Deal, Republicans?
2012-10-01 11:45:34 AM  
1 votes:
The GOP will hold the debt ceil hostage to get bush tax cuts for upper incomes renewed. They are willing to default the country over this issue.
2012-10-01 11:43:34 AM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: GAT_00: Which really doesn't make things that much better.

Just making sure we're all on the same page.


Oh it's a good thing to point out. But while it is good that the trust fund isn't being cratered more, the loss to the general fund isn't exactly good either.
2012-10-01 11:40:30 AM  
1 votes:
I'm OK with this. If you only consider federal income tax, I only pay something like 10% due to deductions, exemptions, and credits. Which is crazy considering I'm above median household income and a single-income household.

Next year, I won't be paying quite so little thanks to a successful business venture which, thanks to the tax cycle, is going to result in having about $20,000 extra in income to tax, but hell, I'm even OK with that, because it'll be my first time making six figures a year and I'm only in my 30s.

I don't mind spending an extra $4,000 to help out the less fortunate when I'm making bank.

/and said DEMAND has resulted in me hiring people - contract work, admittedly, but still work and money in the pockets of others
//fark supply side economics
2012-10-01 11:37:49 AM  
1 votes:
It was nice while it lasted, but it needs to go.

Plus we need to raise the cap on contributions.
2012-10-01 11:35:50 AM  
1 votes:

BMulligan: It sucks for me personally, but it is clearly the right thing to do from a policy perspective.


My family will pay probably 3-4K more next year from this. Good. I want to receive SS when I retire.

The one thing I hope Obama does begin to tackle is spending cuts, militarily and domestically, and getting rid of tax loopholes, both corporate and personal. We really need to get this debt down. I think people will be surprised by how much lower the deficit is in a few years, if the US economy recovers this year and the next.
2012-10-01 11:31:58 AM  
1 votes:
It sucks for me personally, but it is clearly the right thing to do from a policy perspective.
2012-10-01 11:30:45 AM  
1 votes:

Cletus C.: I read this to say Obama wants to tax the middle class more.

Thanks, Obummer.


I read this to say that you're a moron

Thanks, Cletus
2012-10-01 11:29:44 AM  
1 votes:
Regardless of who wins in November, be prepared to say goodby to a lot of things.
2012-10-01 11:29:33 AM  
1 votes:
Remember how they all said it was temporary when it was passed?

This isn't new. It sucks, but it isn't new.
2012-10-01 11:27:10 AM  
1 votes:

GAT_00: Which really doesn't make things that much better.


Just making sure we're all on the same page.
2012-10-01 11:26:33 AM  
1 votes:

Dusk-You-n-Me: Grand_Moff_Joseph: and the potential long term damage to the SS trust fund was huge.

SS trust fund didn't lose a dime.

As with the provision that is currently in effect for 2011, the amount of revenue that is foregone to the Social Security Trust Funds because of the extension of this payroll tax reduction will be replaced with General Fund transfers of the same amount. Thus, the projected level of OASI and DI Trust Funds will be unaffected by the enactment of this bill. Link


Which really doesn't make things that much better.
2012-10-01 11:19:55 AM  
1 votes:

Grand_Moff_Joseph: and the potential long term damage to the SS trust fund was huge.


SS trust fund didn't lose a dime.

As with the provision that is currently in effect for 2011, the amount of revenue that is foregone to the Social Security Trust Funds because of the extension of this payroll tax reduction will be replaced with General Fund transfers of the same amount. Thus, the projected level of OASI and DI Trust Funds will be unaffected by the enactment of this bill. Link
2012-10-01 11:08:51 AM  
1 votes:
Why does Obama want to shrink the 47%?
 
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