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(The Verge)   Moto says there's no way last year's Android devices can run anything as advanced as last year's OS   (theverge.com) divider line 71
    More: Unlikely, Android devices, Android, Motorola Atrix 4G, gingerbread, operating systems, Motorola, U.S. Cellular, dongles  
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2970 clicks; posted to Geek » on 01 Oct 2012 at 9:23 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 09:28:56 AM
Don't you people know how much time and money it takes to put on useless shareware and bloatware?
 
2012-10-01 09:28:59 AM
Last year's OS was designed to run on this year's devices.
 
2012-10-01 09:32:33 AM
I'm about due for a new android phone (currently have an X2), and it's shiat like this that makes me not want want to get a motorola again. The X2 got orphaned almost the day it was released, and most of the other motos aren't much better.

/WTF is this guy's problem?
 
2012-10-01 09:38:48 AM
I have the Samsung Galaxy SII, which was released with 2.3.3, then they upgraded it to 2.3.6, shortly followed by 4.0.3. We have been expecting 4.0.4 which was supposed to fix all the bugs in .3 (which are quite numerous) but Samsung have indicated that JB may be released for the SGSII, which would be a better outcome, as they haven't yet released the dreaded TouchWiz dialler exploit bugfix yet.
 
2012-10-01 09:45:38 AM
As someone who's mum has an iPhone 3GS I'm really getting a kick out of this thread..etc
 
2012-10-01 09:46:05 AM
To be fair, they didn't say it was because of hardware issues. They just said to go fark yourself.
 
2012-10-01 09:48:46 AM
This is the kind of crap that will kill Android. My son has a HTC that's still running 2.3. Of course, I could root the phone and use the hacked update to Ice Cream Sandwich...but it's his phone so I don't really care. The carriers are complicit in this failure to keep the devices updated. Android is popular, but they need to have standard schedule for updates and hold the carriers responsible. Most people are not going to root their phone and used a hacked updated version.
 
2012-10-01 09:57:36 AM
My Droid 4 that I got on a 2-year Verizon plan got upgraded to ICS a month ago or so. I was actually shocked, as I had assumed I'd never get it.
 
2012-10-01 09:57:40 AM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm about due for a new android phone (currently have an X2), and it's shiat like this that makes me not want want to get a motorola again. The X2 got orphaned almost the day it was released, and most of the other motos aren't much better.

/WTF is this guy's problem?


Moto has sort of admitted they farked up with their $100 rebate for 2011 or later phones which don't get upgraded to JB, though the rebate only applies if you buy another Motorola phone.

The article doesn't give the link to the actual rebate page so here it is if you want another phone which may or may not receive updates: Link
 
2012-10-01 09:58:52 AM
Ugh. I'm using an electrify. Looks like I'm stuck with an old OS. Fragmenration is the result of severe disorganization. Lately I've become further and further disillusioned by the ineffeciencies of democratic open source projects. The cost of living in an autocratic system is high, but Apple users seem to be quite happy, despite their world view being so bizarre. Perhaps enough just to live in a world with some direction than the nihilism of Android and its many arms.
 
2012-10-01 10:01:28 AM
This is one of very few reasons I stick with my iPhone 3GS, the other being that my contract is up in December 2013. (next time, I will just buy the phone outright!!)
 
2012-10-01 10:04:31 AM
...and those people who bought the phone based on promises of future upgrades have learned a valuable lesson...
 
2012-10-01 10:05:13 AM

moel: As someone who's mum has an iPhone 3GS I'm really getting a kick out of this thread..etc


Just make sure the phone isn't upgraded to anything past iOS 4 if your mother actually wants the thing to be usable.
 
2012-10-01 10:07:31 AM
I am running Jelly Bean on my Moto Atrix 4g using a CM offshoot.
Camera is a bit wonky and battery usage is a bit higher but hey it works.
 
2012-10-01 10:08:41 AM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm about due for a new android phone (currently have an X2), and it's shiat like this that makes me not want want to get a motorola again. The X2 got orphaned almost the day it was released, and most of the other motos aren't much better.


Almost all android phones are orphaned after release.

Some are even released 1 or 2 versions behind the current version of Android from Google. Much like people who say they won't buy brand X of a windows box because of some flaw, yet they continue to buy windows boxes from another vendor, not noticing the people who are saying that they won't by brand Y of a windows box due to some flaw, Android buyers switch between phones hoping for some magic cure.

It ain't the hardware that is at fault in either case.

Changing to Linux on your hardware will usually 'fix' the flaw that was happening to your system. I know of hardware that wouldn't run windows for more than a few minutes that would run Linux for months on end.

It ain't the hardware folks.

Yes the link is a little old, and the data is still valid.
Link
 
2012-10-01 10:10:03 AM

rikkards: I am running Jelly Bean on my Moto Atrix 4g using a CM offshoot.
Camera is a bit wonky and battery usage is a bit higher but hey it works.


The typical android experience.
 
2012-10-01 10:13:00 AM
When people who don't even work for the companies involved can get these devices running the latest versions of android, hell I even saw someone getting an HTC Desire running Jellybean, then I have no idea how these big companies can just let old phones languish on old operating systems like that. Of course there will be times when the hardware really can't handle an upgrade, and that's fair enough, sometimes these things happen, but they really need to knock it up a notch. How hard can it be for them? Scan XDA for a way to root and upgrade their phone to the latest version, contact the creators, offer them £5k, take whatever they used to make it and give it to your technicians to iron out any bugs. Surely it could be done in a week by trained experts if internet folk could do it in a month?
 
2012-10-01 10:23:57 AM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm about due for a new android phone (currently have an X2), and it's shiat like this that makes me not want want to get a motorola again. The X2 got orphaned almost the day it was released, and most of the other motos aren't much better.

/WTF is this guy's problem?


Same, got an XT720 that was released with 2.1, but was supposed to have an upgrade path, the upgrade was cancelled within a week of me buying it. Ended up jailbreaking the damn thing to upgrade 'cause fark Motorola.
 
2012-10-01 10:27:54 AM

rikkards: I am running Jelly Bean on my Moto Atrix 4g using a CM offshoot.
Camera is a bit wonky and battery usage is a bit higher but hey it works.


It wouldn't surprise me in the least if the reason Moto has 'abandoned' the Atrix is due (in part) to Apple buying the company that made the fingersprint sensor our phones use. It'd be hard to do an upgrade if the vendor refuses to release a driver. Just 'sayin
 
2012-10-01 10:28:51 AM
Hey now, we make money by selling hardware. If we let you run the newer OS on your old phone, what incentive do you have to buy a new one (that we totally promise you can upgrade to the latest OS when it comes out)? *fingers crossed behind back*

Won't someone think about corporate profits?
 
2012-10-01 10:30:23 AM
BTW The problem isn't android it's either cell phone makers and more often the cell providers. And actually Google is getting on their asses about it.
 
2012-10-01 10:30:58 AM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm about due for a new android phone (currently have an X2), and it's shiat like this that makes me not want want to get a motorola again. The X2 got orphaned almost the day it was released, and most of the other motos aren't much better.

/WTF is this guy's problem?


Get Google's own Galaxy Nexus. Immediate OS updates, no bloatware, no contract.

/the phone renewed my waning faith in Android.
 
2012-10-01 10:49:36 AM
My 2 year old Motorola Defy is running ICS just fine from XDA. I use it as my travel phone when I am in south america. Its rugged and waterproof.

My S2 came out of the box with ICS, dialer problem fixed with a free app from the play store.
 
2012-10-01 10:53:31 AM

Slaxl: When people who don't even work for the companies involved can get these devices running the latest versions of android, hell I even saw someone getting an HTC Desire running Jellybean, then I have no idea how these big companies can just let old phones languish on old operating systems like that. Of course there will be times when the hardware really can't handle an upgrade, and that's fair enough, sometimes these things happen, but they really need to knock it up a notch. How hard can it be for them? Scan XDA for a way to root and upgrade their phone to the latest version, contact the creators, offer them £5k, take whatever they used to make it and give it to your technicians to iron out any bugs. Surely it could be done in a week by trained experts if internet folk could do it in a month?



Three words: new phone sales

They're making it where you have to buy a new phone to get the newest OS.
 
2012-10-01 11:00:25 AM

enik: Get Google's own Galaxy Nexus. Immediate OS updates, no bloatware, no contract.*



*Does not apply to CDMA versions

pretty sure Google has said no more CDMA Nexus devices because of the closed nature of CDMA. DAMN YOU Qualcomm
 
2012-10-01 11:09:27 AM

WhyteRaven74: BTW The problem isn't android it's either cell phone makers and more often the cell providers. And actually Google is getting on their asses about it.


I keep saying Google should use the IceCat/IceWeasel issue to their advantage. Firefox is open source but Mozilla owns the Firefox logo and some of the button designs. Some GNU warriors/RMS worshipers would not have this and created a version of Firefox that had entirely open source icons

Google should keep Android open but assert their rights to the Android images and trademarks.
If phone companies want to go the Amazon Kindle route and create a new OS based on Android great, but call it something else. If they want to leverage the Android name and imagery Google should force them to agree to 18-24 months of support and new updates and certain basic hardware qualifications.

They should have 3 levels
1. Android
-basic support/updates for 18-24 months
2. Android w/Google support
-same as above plus stricter HW requirements
- No skinning
- in return Google helps the companies with getting sw updates to their devices, Google has better Android engineers and more of them to spare
3. Nexus level devices
- Full software support and design help from Google
- Google as ODM

it would prevent dilution of the brand by bad/crappy devices, make end users happy and give incentives for OEMs to not screw over end users
 
2012-10-01 11:16:00 AM

farker99: Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm about due for a new android phone (currently have an X2), and it's shiat like this that makes me not want want to get a motorola again. The X2 got orphaned almost the day it was released, and most of the other motos aren't much better.

Almost all android phones are orphaned after release.

Some are even released 1 or 2 versions behind the current version of Android from Google. Much like people who say they won't buy brand X of a windows box because of some flaw, yet they continue to buy windows boxes from another vendor, not noticing the people who are saying that they won't by brand Y of a windows box due to some flaw, Android buyers switch between phones hoping for some magic cure.

It ain't the hardware that is at fault in either case.

Changing to Linux on your hardware will usually 'fix' the flaw that was happening to your system. I know of hardware that wouldn't run windows for more than a few minutes that would run Linux for months on end.

It ain't the hardware folks.

Yes the link is a little old, and the data is still valid.
Link


It still blows me away how stable Linux is. Boot and forget.
 
2012-10-01 11:21:30 AM

WhyteRaven74: BTW The problem isn't android it's either cell phone makers and more often the cell providers. And actually Google is getting on their asses about it.


For the most part this. How many Nexus owners are having these problems? That said, Google needs to clobber this sort of thing from happening. I honestly can't understand how anyone can justify getting a non-Nexus Android atm. What good is the most full-featured phone if you can't run the latest OS twelve months from now?
 
2012-10-01 11:24:10 AM

zedster: WhyteRaven74: BTW The problem isn't android it's either cell phone makers and more often the cell providers. And actually Google is getting on their asses about it.

I keep saying Google should use the IceCat/IceWeasel issue to their advantage. Firefox is open source but Mozilla owns the Firefox logo and some of the button designs. Some GNU warriors/RMS worshipers would not have this and created a version of Firefox that had entirely open source icons

Google should keep Android open but assert their rights to the Android images and trademarks.
If phone companies want to go the Amazon Kindle route and create a new OS based on Android great, but call it something else. If they want to leverage the Android name and imagery Google should force them to agree to 18-24 months of support and new updates and certain basic hardware qualifications.

They should have 3 levels
1. Android
-basic support/updates for 18-24 months
2. Android w/Google support
-same as above plus stricter HW requirements
- No skinning
- in return Google helps the companies with getting sw updates to their devices, Google has better Android engineers and more of them to spare
3. Nexus level devices
- Full software support and design help from Google
- Google as ODM

it would prevent dilution of the brand by bad/crappy devices, make end users happy and give incentives for OEMs to not screw over end users


I'm not a PC gamer, but doesn't MS do this sort of thing with Windows Gaming? Requiring developers to adhere to strict rules if they wanted to have some sort of MS Certified Windows Game?
 
2012-10-01 11:30:57 AM

digistil: For the most part this. How many Nexus owners are having these problems? That said, Google needs to clobber this sort of thing from happening. I honestly can't understand how anyone can justify getting a non-Nexus Android atm. What good is the most full-featured phone if you can't run the latest OS twelve months from now?


carriers make money from pre-installed apps so they have incentives to not push nexus devices. Google has said the Galaxy Nexus on VZ and Sprint is pretty much an abomination due to CDMA so there will most likely not be future CDMA Nexus devices. And for some damn reason as a carry over from WinMo 5.5 OEMs feel the need to skin Android (HTC Sense UI and Samsung Touchwiz both begin life as WinMo skins). I can understand wanting to differentiate your product but give the end user a choice, the touchwiz e-mail app is crap and their is no way to replace it without rooting. I used to have to sideload the vanilla e-mail app on skinned phones because the modified ones didn't support self-signed ssl certs which our work Zimbra server used.

Pretty much unless the US switches to a model like Europe where you buy your phone outright don't expect to see much change in the way OEMs and carriers screw over phones. Microsoft has strict requirements for WinMo phones that results in the same phone from multiple OEMs and Apples sells directly to bypass carriers, Android is the most open but it results in crappy devices and OEMs trying to skin it in stupid ways. If Google starts cracking the whip expect to see another OS take Androids place for crappy mid to low level smart phones, maybe Bada or an S60 descendent
 
2012-10-01 11:31:18 AM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: I'm about due for a new android phone (currently have an X2), and it's shiat like this that makes me not want want to get a motorola again. The X2 got orphaned almost the day it was released, and most of the other motos aren't much better.

/WTF is this guy's problem?


Moto does awesome hardware, but their software is dreck. Which sucks, because they refuse to go to a vanilla Android OS and make it a PITA to flash one. Hell, the camera on my D3 still doesn't work right, because of their crappy firmware.

I'm hoping going forward google makes use of their purchase of Moto and opens this shiat up.
 
2012-10-01 11:33:27 AM
If you want to make sure you get an Android phone that's consistently supported, buy the Nexus directly from Google. 
I have a Galaxy S2 that's using ICS. I won't upgrade to JB when it's released for the S2. ICS is stable, and works fine on this phone. I have JB on my Nexus 7, and I don't see a huge advantage to have it on my phone.
 
2012-10-01 11:36:58 AM

digistil: I'm not a PC gamer, but doesn't MS do this sort of thing with Windows Gaming? Requiring developers to adhere to strict rules if they wanted to have some sort of MS Certified Windows Game?


kind of, this would be different, it would be more akin to Steam. You can always sell your game through other channels or still install it on Windows without certification, but having Steam support results in higher sales because end users trust Steam. Google does have an Android Device site with kind of approved devices Link but has not leveraged that in any way. Even if they started offering free Google Play credit to OEMs that made device that met their specs it would help (similar to how the Nexus 7 came with $25 Google Play credit) or offer them a discounted Google Ad campaign (not sure of antitrust issues with this). Hell it would benefit Google too, more apps sold on paper and more users of the app store. Plus google could use the program to gets OEMs to include NFC/Google Wallet.
 
2012-10-01 11:37:27 AM

AcneVulgaris: rikkards: I am running Jelly Bean on my Moto Atrix 4g using a CM offshoot.
Camera is a bit wonky and battery usage is a bit higher but hey it works.

The typical android experience.


Baloney

Typical Android experience is to glaze over in these conversation and keep on using what you got without the knowledge that it isn't "the best". Ignorance is bliss, and it's 90-95% of the market.

A few tech suckers, like Apple/Droid fans boys, will rage over their OS name or number, without ever knowing why they need or want it. They won't admit it though, as it;s their key to superiority and a self inflated ego.

And a tiny few will know the OS differences and how it relates to their needs, and flash/jailbreak accordingly.
 
2012-10-01 11:40:31 AM

Slaxl: When people who don't even work for the companies involved can get these devices running the latest versions of android, hell I even saw someone getting an HTC Desire running Jellybean, then I have no idea how these big companies can just let old phones languish on old operating systems like that. Of course there will be times when the hardware really can't handle an upgrade, and that's fair enough, sometimes these things happen, but they really need to knock it up a notch. How hard can it be for them? Scan XDA for a way to root and upgrade their phone to the latest version, contact the creators, offer them £5k, take whatever they used to make it and give it to your technicians to iron out any bugs. Surely it could be done in a week by trained experts if internet folk could do it in a month?


Really? Have you seen their profit margins and release scheduled?

Pretty apparent. They put out outdated tech and OS' because of the large margins, and they don't update it so you want that new toy every 12-24 months.

Even with iOS/Android opening up their cabal quite a bit, they still have old schemes to make a nice dollar. Almost no one offers vanilla Android because if they did so, you;d be able to easily upgrade it.
 
2012-10-01 11:45:10 AM
ICS is crap. It's a tablet OS. The Home and App Switch buttons have the same purpose. Disappearing buttons are stupid. The hardware Menu button is a good idea. It separates viewing from actions like Delete that you dont want to press accidentally
 
2012-10-01 11:47:28 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: If you want to make sure you get an Android phone that's consistently supported, buy the Nexus directly from Google.


THIS plus t-mobile prepaid 5G data for $30/mo = very very happy android user. Jelly Bean is rather good.

/i'm not even tempted to bother with Cyanogenmod, unlike with my old "you'll stay on Froyo and LIKE IT" phone, where it was practically required.
 
2012-10-01 11:49:28 AM

zedster: I keep saying Google should use the IceCat/IceWeasel issue to their advantage. Firefox is open source but Mozilla owns the Firefox logo and some of the button designs. Some GNU warriors/RMS worshipers would not have this and created a version of Firefox that had entirely open source icons

Google should keep Android open but assert their rights to the Android images and trademarks.
If phone companies want to go the Amazon Kindle route and create a new OS based on Android great, but call it something else. If they want to leverage the Android name and imagery Google should force them to agree to 18-24 months of support and new updates and certain basic hardware qualifications.

They should have 3 levels
1. Android
-basic support/updates for 18-24 months
2. Android w/Google support
-same as above plus stricter HW requirements
- No skinning
- in return Google helps the companies with getting sw updates to their devices, Google has better Android engineers and more of them to spare
3. Nexus level devices
- Full software support and design help from Google
- Google as ODM

it would prevent dilution of the brand by bad/crappy devices, make end users happy and give incentives for OEMs to not screw over end users


GREAT ideas....totally agree. That could be a selling point as well as a way to limit the market fragmentation.

The bottom line is that for Android to be successful over the long-term, Google needs to do something to reign it in.
 
2012-10-01 11:50:54 AM

Abe Vigoda's Ghost: If you want to make sure you get an Android phone that's consistently supported, buy the Nexus directly from Google. 
I have a Galaxy S2 that's using ICS. I won't upgrade to JB when it's released for the S2. ICS is stable, and works fine on this phone. I have JB on my Nexus 7, and I don't see a huge advantage to have it on my phone.


I'd be happy with 4.0.4 on my SGSII, but it's unlikely my carrier would release that if JB was confirmed.

The version of 4.0.3 that I have now is an abomination, with so many bugs.
 
2012-10-01 11:52:26 AM

moothemagiccow: ICS is crap. It's a tablet OS. The Home and App Switch buttons have the same purpose. Disappearing buttons are stupid. The hardware Menu button is a good idea. It separates viewing from actions like Delete that you dont want to press accidentally


I will agree that the interface guidelines on Android (there are interface guidelines?) suck rancid donkey balls compared with the consistency and general-makesensiness of IOS.

The teeny-tiny vertical : shoehorned into the edge of the screen that serves as a menu/settings button on ICS/JB is crap, as is the sometimes there/sometimes not search button.
 
2012-10-01 11:53:17 AM

moothemagiccow: ICS is crap. It's a tablet OS. The Home and App Switch buttons have the same purpose. Disappearing buttons are stupid. The hardware Menu button is a good idea. It separates viewing from actions like Delete that you dont want to press accidentally


Guess I'm seeing something different then you. My home and App switch buttons do different tasks; like takes me to apps, and back to the home screen.
I'm using Nova launcher, but I'm pretty sure even the stock ATT launcher does the same thing.
 
2012-10-01 12:01:45 PM
Has no one learned the first lesson of Android yet?

If you want a snowball's chance in Hell of ever upgrading the OS without one of the steps being "Sacrifice a chicken," you need to buy a Nexus device.

Otherwise you're on your own and I have no sympathy.
 
2012-10-01 12:05:26 PM

AbsentFriends: Hey now, we make money by selling hardware. If we let you run the newer OS on your old phone, what incentive do you have to buy a new one (that we totally promise you can upgrade to the latest OS when it comes out)? *fingers crossed behind back*


I think it's more accurate to say that the network operators want you to stay on your old, no-longer-subsidized phone as long as possible before upgrading. They make less money on you buying the hardware than they do you paying the exact same amount on the phone you fully paid for a year ago. Putting a newer OS on your old phone and slowing it down just serves to show how old your phone is getting.
 
2012-10-01 12:27:44 PM

enik: Get Google's own Galaxy Nexus. Immediate OS updates, no bloatware, no contract.


No derivative model with a slide-out physical keyboard. I don't mind the virtual keyboards myself, but a few people I know (who came from the Blackberry world) will only use a physical keyboard. That generally means you're stuck with Motorola and their Droid series.
 
2012-10-01 12:29:52 PM

moel: As someone who's mum has an iPhone 3GS I'm really getting a kick out of this thread..etc


Oooooh... 3G. How quaint.
 
db2
2012-10-01 12:44:50 PM
motoLOLa
 
2012-10-01 12:47:03 PM

Edward Rooney Dean of Students: Slaxl: When people who don't even work for the companies involved can get these devices running the latest versions of android, hell I even saw someone getting an HTC Desire running Jellybean, then I have no idea how these big companies can just let old phones languish on old operating systems like that. Of course there will be times when the hardware really can't handle an upgrade, and that's fair enough, sometimes these things happen, but they really need to knock it up a notch. How hard can it be for them? Scan XDA for a way to root and upgrade their phone to the latest version, contact the creators, offer them £5k, take whatever they used to make it and give it to your technicians to iron out any bugs. Surely it could be done in a week by trained experts if internet folk could do it in a month?


Three words: new phone sales

They're making it where you have to buy a new phone to get the newest OS.


While some part of it has to do with development costs (they have to PAY someone to develop and test, because it isn't a hobby), I do agree that it certainly helps sales!
 
2012-10-01 12:57:16 PM

moel: As someone who's mum has an iPhone 3GS I'm really getting a kick out of this thread..etc


How is she enjoying her:
- voice assistant (despite the application it was based on ran on devices older than what she has)
- well-integrated turn by turn voice navigation (and not just a shortcut to a website or just-an-app), because even the original Android devices have this feature (and is updated independent of OS version, just like the Play Store, etc.)
- How many other features I don't know about that got neglected because someone wanted you to spend more money on last year's tech so you'll buy again in a year?
 
2012-10-01 01:04:05 PM

SleepingEye: moel: As someone who's mum has an iPhone 3GS I'm really getting a kick out of this thread..etc

How is she enjoying her:
- voice assistant (despite the application it was based on ran on devices older than what she has)
- well-integrated turn by turn voice navigation (and not just a shortcut to a website or just-an-app), because even the original Android devices have this feature (and is updated independent of OS version, just like the Play Store, etc.)
- How many other features I don't know about that got neglected because someone wanted you to spend more money on last year's tech so you'll buy again in a year?


I know you asked with so much sarcasm and contempt that it may have just been a baby troll, but, oh Hell. Here's a chart for ya'.

What iOS 6 features work on which iPhone/iPod Touch/iPad models.
 
2012-10-01 01:15:19 PM

slayer199: This is the kind of crap that will kill Android. My son has a HTC that's still running 2.3. Of course, I could root the phone and use the hacked update to Ice Cream Sandwich...but it's his phone so I don't really care.


It won't "kill Android" because the rate of improvement of the OS is now glacial. New in Jellybean? Slightly nicer notifications, slightly nicer search and Google Now. I told my wife and she couldn't have cared less.

3 or 4 years from now, people won't buy phones on contract. You'll buy a new one when your old one breaks.
 
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