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(Huffington Post)   Kanye West sued for sampling by someone who just now realized how the entire hip-hop music industry operates   (huffingtonpost.com) divider line 25
    More: Stupid, Kanye West, Yauch, MTV Europe Music Awards, human beings, Nietzsche, Beasties, Best Female Video, VMA  
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2993 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 01 Oct 2012 at 10:05 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 09:09:21 AM
Black people problems.
 
2012-10-01 09:34:16 AM
You know, I don't have a television - up to now, I always thought this guy's name was pronounced "Can-eye" believe it or not. That's just from seeing the word and assuming that's how it's pronounced.. Only realized yesterday when I heard someone say "Can-yea" that it was different.

/pointless story bro
 
2012-10-01 10:08:37 AM
Can't wait till Duft Pank sues him
 
2012-10-01 10:10:09 AM
TufAmerica is the same label that filed a copyright-infringement lawsuit against the Beastie Boys earlier this year, the day before band member Adam Yauch died of cancer. That lawsuit claimed the Beasties' 1980s albums "License to Ill" and "Paul's Boutiquet" illicitly sampled from two Trouble Funk songs TufAmerica administers.

You can take Beastie Boys out of ghetto...
 
2012-10-01 10:41:54 AM
FTA: TufAmerica claims West's label Roc-A-Fella paid a license fee of $62,500, but "failed and refused to enter into written license agreements that accounted for their multiple other uses of ['Hook and Sling']." The label is seeking undisclosed damages for copyright infringement.

Apparently they also used the sampling in two videos. Sounds like Roc-A-Fella thought the license fee covered all uses for the album and videos and TufAmerica is being a dick about it. Not like they just sampled without paying at all.
 
2012-10-01 11:17:00 AM
Well, when none of them know how to play an instrument, i guess you have to steal your music.
 
2012-10-01 01:10:18 PM
"I love the internet because now we have rappers who used to be gangsters and thugs telling us not to download music because it's stealing... hahahaha *cough* sorry, I'm choking on irony!" -Daniel Tosh

perhaps relevant?
 
2012-10-01 01:31:49 PM
There's nothing wrong with sampling IF what you're doing is truly sampling.

Sampling is when you take a few seconds of a song, and mix it with other samples (and preferably some of your OWN music, too) to create a "music collage" of various sounds and snippets that forms a wholly new piece of music.

What Kanye does (along with Timbaland and many others) is not sampling. It's plagiarism. They take whole songs, or several measures of a song, and then make a very minor modification to it or just sing over it. They don't make a wholly new piece of music; They make an older piece of music with new lyrics, or a different drum beat, or an additional instrument. They take far too much of the original, and they contribute far too little of their own creativity into the process.

Good use of samples: Information Society, Art of Noise, Daft Punk (sometimes).

Bullshiat use of "sampling": Timbaland, Kanye West, Vanilla Ice, Daft Punk (sometimes).

The final measurement in my mind, when I make music using samples is, "Can I recognize this as MY song, or as someone else's song with my little additions to it?" -- If it's more theirs than mine, then I've used too much sampling and I cut it down, remix, tweak, and change it so that each little sample blends into a whole that doesn't resemble any one other original piece of music.

If you play your song and it is immediately identified by more than a few people as someone else's song before your vocal/drum/changes kick in, then you're not sampling. You're stealing.

Or, the simple rule of thumb: If you sample more than 6 seconds of any music, you're probably plagiarizing, not sampling.

Hip hop is so forgiving about plagiarism. I don't get the mentality that some fans have that allows them to listen to something, then hear the almost-unchanged original from 20 years earlier, and say "Oh, well, Timbaland was just sampling. It's cool." Why apologize for people who demonstrate such a lack of talent or respect for music?
 
2012-10-01 01:33:15 PM

gopher321: You know, I don't have a television - up to now, I always thought this guy's name was pronounced "Can-eye" believe it or not. That's just from seeing the word and assuming that's how it's pronounced.. Only realized yesterday when I heard someone say "Can-yea" that it was different.

/pointless story bro


You're wrong. His name is pronounced "talentless retard". The "k" is silent.
 
2012-10-01 02:43:23 PM
Seriously, black people, learn to play a damn instrument, you're better at it than white people. Think how much more awesome music we'd have if they'd get inspired by people like Quincy Jones instead of "I wanna be a pimp/gangsta."
 
2012-10-01 02:51:41 PM

browntimmy: Seriously, black people, learn to play a damn instrument, you're better at it than white people. Think how much more awesome music we'd have if they'd get inspired by people like Quincy Jones instead of "I wanna be a pimp/gangsta."


yeah, but we also cant have bands where everyone is on base guitar.
 
2012-10-01 03:43:37 PM
If only it were possible to make music yourself without using someone else's bits.
 
2012-10-01 04:03:20 PM

LemSkroob:
yeah, but we also cant have bands where everyone is on base guitar.


WTF is a base guitar?
 
2012-10-01 04:20:42 PM

Zombie Eater: LemSkroob:
yeah, but we also cant have bands where everyone is on base guitar.

WTF is a base guitar?


A guitar you generally don't want to get wet.
 
2012-10-01 05:57:23 PM

PYROY: If only it were possible to make music yourself without using someone else's bits.


I've been learning guitar for a bit over 3 years. Try to play every single day, even if it's only 5 minutes.

Constantly running into other peoples bits while messing around.

Sometimes I don't notice until someone else points it out.

/time to practice
 
2012-10-01 08:06:28 PM

BretMavrik: Zombie Eater: LemSkroob:
yeah, but we also cant have bands where everyone is on base guitar.

WTF is a base guitar?

A guitar you generally don't want to get wet.


that doesn't make sense either. why can't a base get wet? you're thinking of gremlins.
 
2012-10-01 08:09:37 PM
Obligatory

img.myconfinedspace.com
 
2012-10-01 08:40:46 PM

ZeroCorpse:

Hip hop is so forgiving about plagiarism. I don't get the mentality that some fans have that allows them to listen to something, then hear the almost-unchanged original from 20 years earlier, and say "Oh, well, Timbaland was just sampling. It's cool." Why apologize for people who demonstrate such a lack of talent or respect for music?


Maybe because it's not about the plagiarism as much as evoking an older feeling,
or evoking a totally new feeling than the older sample.

What is the difference in the feelings evoked between:

- In All My Wildest Dreams, Joe Sample
- Faded Pictures, Joe and Case (Soul Central remix)
- Dear Mama, Tupac

Or:
- Love Theme 'Dark Crystal', Trevor Jones
- Carry the Weight, Xzibit

Or:
- Dying to Live, Edgar Winter
- Running (Dying to Live), Eminem

Or even:
- I Call Your Name, Switch
- Throw Some D's, Rich Boy

and:
- Roxanne, The Police
- What Mean The World To You, Cam'ron

What happens with sampling is that
people hear the sample,
and it makes them that much more
interested in the original
when they hear the full piece.


Besides, isn't there an actual term for musical pieces (motifs?) which
are cultural shorthands? Usually, it's used for classical pieces, but
I think it should apply to R&B/Gospel/Soul/HipHop/Rap, as well.

Music is more than just notes on a sheet. It's the emotion. It's the aftertaste
in your brain after hearing a piece. It can be used for good, or evil.
 
2012-10-01 08:54:49 PM

perpetually_frustrated: Obligatory

[img.myconfinedspace.com image 750x600]


'She's Not Just Another Woman' , The Eighth Day
'Born and Raised in Compton', DJ Quik

"Be Thankful" William deVaughn (and a whole bunch of other folks)
"Gangsta, Gangsta" NWA (and a whole bunch of other folks)
Full DNA strand at whosampled.com


If you grew up listening to the original versions,
listening to the new versions either made you
want to tear your hair out, or get crazy-happy.
But it does make you feel something.

Of course... if someone is sampling your favorite original pieces
it's a pretty good sign you are now officially Old (tm) ;)
("but.. but that was just yesterday!" no it wasn't, it was 20 years ago)
 
2012-10-01 09:02:07 PM

PYROY: If only it were possible to make music yourself without using someone else's bits.


So it was okay for white musicians to steal from black musicians
because the white musicians strummed a ghee-tahr?
or for british musicians to steal from both black and white american musicians
and it was okay because the british could read sheet music?

sometimes music is about creating something completely new out of whole cloth.
sometimes music is about creating something original from what used to be
grandma's tablecloth and mama's curtains.
and sometimes... many times... music is cover banding.

lazy music should be denounced, yes.
a note for note recreation on a traditionally accepted instrument is not automatically better.
soulless music is still soulless.
 
2012-10-01 11:34:46 PM

ExperianScaresCthulhu: ZeroCorpse:

Hip hop is so forgiving about plagiarism. I don't get the mentality that some fans have that allows them to listen to something, then hear the almost-unchanged original from 20 years earlier, and say "Oh, well, Timbaland was just sampling. It's cool." Why apologize for people who demonstrate such a lack of talent or respect for music?

Maybe because it's not about the plagiarism as much as evoking an older feeling,
or evoking a totally new feeling than the older sample.

What is the difference in the feelings evoked between:

- In All My Wildest Dreams, Joe Sample
- Faded Pictures, Joe and Case (Soul Central remix)
- Dear Mama, Tupac

Or:
- Love Theme 'Dark Crystal', Trevor Jones
- Carry the Weight, Xzibit

Or:
- Dying to Live, Edgar Winter
- Running (Dying to Live), Eminem

Or even:
- I Call Your Name, Switch
- Throw Some D's, Rich Boy

and:
- Roxanne, The Police
- What Mean The World To You, Cam'ron

What happens with sampling is that
people hear the sample,
and it makes them that much more
interested in the original
when they hear the full piece.

Besides, isn't there an actual term for musical pieces (motifs?) which
are cultural shorthands? Usually, it's used for classical pieces, but
I think it should apply to R&B/Gospel/Soul/HipHop/Rap, as well.

Music is more than just notes on a sheet. It's the emotion. It's the aftertaste
in your brain after hearing a piece. It can be used for good, or evil.


Fine. But if you use most (or all) of someone else's song, then you shouldn't get a f♥cking dime from it, and you certainly should not be praised for it.

Evoke memories all you want, but don't act like you deserve an award or payday for using the shortcut method.
 
2012-10-02 01:08:52 AM
I dare one to sample parts of Celine Dion's "my heart will go on" into hip hop genre. Mind as well since every feaking hip hop artists are doing that kind of stuff. Realistically, I'm sick of sampled hip hop junk.
 
2012-10-02 05:10:23 AM
Talent borrows, genius steals
 
2012-10-02 05:57:06 AM
3.bp.blogspot.com
It's totally different.
 
2012-10-02 07:38:47 AM

ZeroCorpse:

Fine. But if you use most (or all) of someone else's song, then you shouldn't get a f♥cking dime from it, and you certainly should not be praised for it.

Evoke memories all you want, but don't act like you deserve an award or payday for using the shortcut method.


I guess I should have put 'Wade in the Water' versus 'Hey, Little Walter' up, as well, even though it's R&B to push the point through more, then. Take any old gospel/praise the lord song......... add sex lyrics... voila, you now have a blues/r&b hit. Do the reverse, you now have a gospel song. Sampling is old, only the technology changed.

Instead of saying folks shouldn't get a dime, I think a continued push to force songwriters to acknowledge all the samples they find inspiration in should be made, and that there's a continued push to make sure those songwriters are paid royalties whenever someone samples them.

It can come out of the record label's cut, instead of the artists'.

More money for everyone.

Sampling makes money for more artists, as long as the acknowledgements are there. I didn't read the article, but if Kanye used someone else's work without acknowledgement, he deserves to be sued. But that doesn't mean sampling itself sucks. The business of it does, which is different. Put the acknowledgement in the liner notes and cut a check? should be standard operating procedure. More money for everyone, more music opens up to wider audiences who otherwise would not have been exposed... or are interested in being exposed again.
 
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