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(The Daily Dolt)   Hasidic Jewish group hosts a friendly meeting with Holocaust-denier Mahmoud Ahmadinejad to present him with an award for his "exemplary" criticism of Israel and his love for the Jewish people. Yeah, we don't get it either   (thedailydolt.com ) divider line
    More: Weird, Jewish, criticism of Israel, Neturei Karta, Holocaust, Hasidic Judaism, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad  
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1279 clicks; posted to Politics » on 01 Oct 2012 at 11:51 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 07:36:27 AM  
Wait, even if they're ok with his stance on Israel, why are they cool with him calling them criminals and denying the Holocaust?
 
2012-10-01 08:07:26 AM  
Oy vey

/sorry
 
2012-10-01 09:23:34 AM  

So much fail. Let me count the ways

Mahmoud Ahmadenijad to present him with an award. Did you mean Ahmadinejad?
• Hasidic Jewish Group Neturei Karta. Not representative. Ths isn't the first time they did this, either.
• Ahmadinejad doesnt control the military.

In practice, however, presidential powers are circumscribed by the clerics and conservatives in Iran's power structure, and by the authority of the Supreme Leader. It is the Supreme Leader, not the president, who controls the armed forces and makes decisions on security, defence and major foreign policy issues.


Our nations level of understanding on this topic, as a whole, is abysmal. The submissions here are just getting worse and worse.
 
2012-10-01 09:39:56 AM  

Party Boy: So much fail. Let me count the ways

• Mahmoud Ahmadenijad to present him with an award. Did you mean Ahmadinejad?
• Hasidic Jewish Group Neturei Karta. Not representative. Ths isn't the first time they did this, either.
• Ahmadinejad doesnt control the military. In practice, however, presidential powers are circumscribed by the clerics and conservatives in Iran's power structure, and by the authority of the Supreme Leader. It is the Supreme Leader, not the president, who controls the armed forces and makes decisions on security, defence and major foreign policy issues.

Our nations level of understanding on this topic, as a whole, is abysmal. The submissions here are just getting worse and worse.


1.) Where is it even spelled like that?
2.) Uhhh, you realize this is the Fark Main page, right? It's not real news. It's a novelty. I don't think anyone is reading this and thinking it's representative of the current state of Middle East negotiations.
3.) Who said anything about the military?
 
2012-10-01 09:47:25 AM  

LRA61380: 1.) Where is it even spelled like that?


Someone changed it

LRA61380: 2.) Uhhh, you realize this is the Fark Main page, right? It's not real news.


This is a bullshiat excuse, and has been so since the famous "Tatsuma - Iran" thread days.

LRA61380: 3.) Who said anything about the military?


What is Ahmadinejad in charge of? Why is this guy a focus? This is a good one.
 
2012-10-01 09:57:14 AM  
This also makes me think of the complaints about the "overt" focus on the Israeli state here. Theres literally been an orgy of news this week on Netanyahu and US-Israeli-Iranian relations. US pundits are breaking with Netanyahu. Netanyahu putting his foot in his mouth. All just this this week. Major foreign policy stuff, global Photoshop jokes, etc.
Fark threads? Nah.

(last 7 days)
You have this dumb thread on a very fringe group.
Iran thread
Follow-up Iran thread
Dumb iran thread on a sniper rifle
Iranian diplomat chased through NYC streets
Iran drone
 
2012-10-01 10:12:46 AM  

Party Boy: LRA61380: 1.) Where is it even spelled like that?

Someone changed it


You do realize that that transliteration of Arabic to Latinate letters doesn't necessarily carry identical spellings every time, right?
 
2012-10-01 10:19:28 AM  

ArkAngel: You do realize that that transliteration of Arabic to Latinate letters doesn't necessarily carry identical spellings every time, right?


First of all, lets clarify that we are talking about the Perso-Arabic alphabet - where Arabic script was adapted to the Persian language.

That clarified, this particular political figure is in the news with such an amazing frequency, that people have long settled on the spelling "Ahmadinejad" as the standard. The name has taken a life of its own in English.
 
2012-10-01 10:28:37 AM  
i0.kym-cdn.com

Unavailable for comment.
 
2012-10-01 10:49:02 AM  

Party Boy: ArkAngel: You do realize that that transliteration of Arabic to Latinate letters doesn't necessarily carry identical spellings every time, right?

First of all, lets clarify that we are talking about the Perso-Arabic alphabet - where Arabic script was adapted to the Persian language.

That clarified, this particular political figure is in the news with such an amazing frequency, that people have long settled on the spelling "Ahmadinejad" as the standard. The name has taken a life of its own in English.


In any language with a different script, transliteration is variable, especially with longer names. Simply look at the name Mohammed. There are a dozen spellings. Or the word Muslim/Moslem. Both are equally acceptable, though generally used in different parts of the world.
 
2012-10-01 10:54:26 AM  

ArkAngel: Simply look at the name Mohammed.


No analog needed.

Party Boy: First of all, lets clarify that we are talking about the Perso-Arabic alphabet - where Arabic script was adapted to the Persian language.

That clarified, this particular political figure is in the news with such an amazing frequency, that people have long settled on the spelling "Ahmadinejad" as the standard. The name has taken a life of its own in English.


I'm not sure you should be continuing on when you got the name for the alphabet wrong. No, theyre not the same. Theres differences in the alphabet, and in the words they describe.

No need for an analog with their inherent similarities and differences. Look at this exact example. People have long settled on the spelling "Ahmadinejad" as the standard. The name has taken a life of its own in English. Its the standard.
 
2012-10-01 10:56:17 AM  
Many in the Orthodox community believe that only when the messiah comes back can there be a 3rd Israeli kingdom and temple, to them the modern state of Israel is an insult. To them to create a state of Israel before messianic redemption is an insult to god and going against his will. Most have at least made peace with the idea or at least found being on welfare in Israel beats hanging out in Iran. The Neturei Karta are an extreme fringe group that find the founding of Israel so insulting they join any group that opposes Israel. There are also those in the Ultra-Orthodox community that to square away their belief that god does everything for a reason have to find a reason behind the holocaust and link it to Zionism or more commonly Jewish secularism in Europe before the holocaust.
 
2012-10-01 11:03:33 AM  

zedster: The Neturei Karta are an extreme fringe


I thought everyone knew this. its not even the first time theyve met with his highness, the Iranian in charge of.. erm... what.
 
2012-10-01 11:10:38 AM  

Party Boy: ArkAngel: Simply look at the name Mohammed.

No analog needed.

Party Boy: First of all, lets clarify that we are talking about the Perso-Arabic alphabet - where Arabic script was adapted to the Persian language.

That clarified, this particular political figure is in the news with such an amazing frequency, that people have long settled on the spelling "Ahmadinejad" as the standard. The name has taken a life of its own in English.

I'm not sure you should be continuing on when you got the name for the alphabet wrong. No, theyre not the same. Theres differences in the alphabet, and in the words they describe.

No need for an analog with their inherent similarities and differences. Look at this exact example. People have long settled on the spelling "Ahmadinejad" as the standard. The name has taken a life of its own in English. Its the standard.


Yes, I got the alphabet wrong, but it applies across all languages with different scripts. Chinese is also quite bad at it.
 
2012-10-01 11:12:18 AM  

ArkAngel: Yes, I got the alphabet wrong,


Now focus on the spelling for "Ahmadinejad." Tell me thats not the overwhelmingly used standard for English.
 
2012-10-01 11:53:57 AM  
Now that's some self-hating!!!
 
2012-10-01 11:55:26 AM  
But the press told me Israelis are a borg collective and they all think and feel the same way.

That said, these guys are obviously considered fringe. They have their reasons though.
 
2012-10-01 11:55:51 AM  
I love propaganda from fascists....it's so Orwellian.
 
2012-10-01 12:00:50 PM  
Hey, Herschel, look like we got here some o' them self-hatin' Jews.
 
2012-10-01 12:01:59 PM  
So, a fringe group of Judaism met with Armannidinnerjacket? Why is this news? More importantly, does he actually have a job in Iran? I thought he was basically a convenient figurehead.
 
2012-10-01 12:05:06 PM  

HotWingConspiracy: That said, these guys are obviously considered fringe. They have their reasons though.


The only really disturbing thing is that as nutty as their beliefs are, they aren't really any nuttier than those of the Republican presidential candidate who will probably draw over 47% of the popular vote.
 
2012-10-01 12:09:33 PM  
There are more stories written about the NK every month than there are members of it.

Just so's you know.

// "fringe" is not a strong enough word for how isolated this view is among Jews
// for a worldwide population of 20-30millionish, there's probably a thousand or so NK-types
 
2012-10-01 12:09:49 PM  
Neturei Karta

Wasn't this the group that was harassing girls going to elementary school for not dressing conservatively enough? I seem to remember Tats saying that in an old thread. I'm thinking the meeting went something like this:

NK: "Thanks for keeping us in business, Mahmoud!"
AM: "Same to you!"
 
2012-10-01 12:17:14 PM  
Figured it was Neturei Karta before clicking.
 
2012-10-01 12:18:13 PM  
Hassidic Jews hate Israel? Huh. Learn something new every day.
 
2012-10-01 12:29:01 PM  
I'm pretty sure that Zionism and being Hassid are not mutual terms.

It's a patch of desert with little in the way of fertile lands or economicly useful resources. A Jewish promised land would be somewhere more like Appalachia, but alas there was this "take back" movement starting about 130 years ago.

And by shear numbers, I think South Florida is the Jewish homeland these days.
 
2012-10-01 12:32:57 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm pretty sure that Zionism and being Hassid are not mutual terms.

It's a patch of desert with little in the way of fertile lands or economicly useful resources. A Jewish promised land would be somewhere more like Appalachia, but alas there was this "take back" movement starting about 130 years ago.

And by shear numbers, I think South Florida is the Jewish homeland these days.


They could vote that in by referendum and solve a lot of problems
 
2012-10-01 12:33:19 PM  
Since when was religion expected to have any kind of internally consistent logic?
 
2012-10-01 12:34:21 PM  
satire?
 
2012-10-01 12:36:48 PM  
The difference is that the Chasids are marginal, extremist kooks while Ahmedinajad is president of a farking country.
 
2012-10-01 12:37:37 PM  

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is in the mid-20s in terms of rank in the Iranian power-structure.

It's like Iran treating the Secretary for Education as the leader of the USA.

www.toplessrobot.com


Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

 
2012-10-01 12:41:30 PM  

clambam: president of a farking country.


Bungles: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is in the mid-20s in terms of rank in the Iranian power-structure.

It's like Iran treating the Secretary for Education as the leader of the USA.


These two posts together - magnificent.
 
2012-10-01 12:41:34 PM  
Couple of years ago I marched in NYC's Salute to Israel parade and we went past a group of Hasidim shouting pro-Palestine rhetoric and burning the Israeli flag. (They were placed on the side of the street opposite from everyone else, no doubt for their own safety.) Those dudes may be more irony-deficient than the Log Cabin Republicans.
 
2012-10-01 12:42:19 PM  

Party Boy: ArkAngel: Yes, I got the alphabet wrong,

Now focus on the spelling for "Ahmadinejad." Tell me thats not the overwhelmingly used standard for English.


As one might recall from the case of a recent leader of Libya, there's not always agreement among the AP, the State Department, and the NY Times when it comes to transliterations.

/lighten up, Moammar
 
2012-10-01 12:45:09 PM  

Hilarity_N_Sues: Salute to Israel parade


Was that the one celebrating Tel Aviv's 100th anniversary and with Gilad Shalit's parents?
 
2012-10-01 12:46:34 PM  

clambam: The difference is that the Chasids are marginal, extremist kooks while Ahmedinajad is president of a farking country.


It's not like he was democratically elected in a fair election. Unless you just blindly believe the Iranian government on everything. So it's not like he has credibility/legitimacy from popular support.
And then in terms of political power wielded because of position regardless of support/legitimacy, Ahmadinejad is a figurehead with hardly any/no significant power.
They're both about as relevant as the other. But we need a villain/Goldstein to focus on for media ratings.
 
2012-10-01 12:46:34 PM  

LibertyHiller: As one might recall from the case of a recent leader of Libya


No. no. no. No Analog needed.

Party Boy: Now focus on the spelling for "Ahmadinejad." Tell me thats not the overwhelmingly used standard for English.


Answer that. Specific and direct.
 
2012-10-01 12:50:02 PM  

Arkanaut: Neturei Karta

Wasn't this the group that was harassing girls going to elementary school for not dressing conservatively enough? I seem to remember Tats saying that in an old thread. I'm thinking the meeting went something like this:

NK: "Thanks for keeping us in business, Mahmoud!"
AM: "Same to you!"


While the NK isn't opposed to such harassment, they're not likely to be caught dead living in Israel, let alone such a modern place as Beit Shemesh. They'd be throwing rocks at everyone.

// get your batshiat-crazy Hasidic sects right, man!
 
2012-10-01 12:55:09 PM  

Party Boy: clambam: president of a farking country.

Bungles: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is in the mid-20s in terms of rank in the Iranian power-structure.

It's like Iran treating the Secretary for Education as the leader of the USA.

These two posts together - magnificent.


They're both magnificently obtuse, yes.

President of Iran is not like president of most other countries; he's basically a talking head. They put him up in front of the U.N. because of that.

And there's no country anywhere that puts their Secretary of Education in that kind of role.
 
2012-10-01 01:00:10 PM  

Wooly Bully: Party Boy: clambam: president of a farking country.

Bungles: Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is in the mid-20s in terms of rank in the Iranian power-structure.

It's like Iran treating the Secretary for Education as the leader of the USA.

These two posts together - magnificent.

They're both magnificently obtuse, yes.

President of Iran is not like president of most other countries; he's basically a talking head. They put him up in front of the U.N. because of that.

And there's no country anywhere that puts their Secretary of Education in that kind of role.



www.coronacomingattractions.com

 
2012-10-01 01:00:40 PM  

Wooly Bully: They're both magnificently obtuse, yes.

President of Iran is not like president of most other countries; he's basically a talking head. They put him up in front of the U.N. because of that.

And there's no country anywhere that puts their Secretary of Education in that kind of role.


This is why everyone should avoid analogs in their argument. It nearly always degenerates into an nargument of the inherent similarities and differences of the analog, and diverts from the original point.
 
2012-10-01 01:05:44 PM  

Party Boy: This is why everyone should avoid analogs in their argument.


Meh, they have their rhetorical and didactic uses. Although they're very frequently misleading, they can be well done and useful.
 
2012-10-01 01:09:18 PM  

Party Boy: So much fail. Let me count the ways

• Mahmoud Ahmadenijad to present him with an award. Did you mean Ahmadinejad?
• Hasidic Jewish Group Neturei Karta. Not representative. Ths isn't the first time they did this, either.
• Ahmadinejad doesnt control the military. In practice, however, presidential powers are circumscribed by the clerics and conservatives in Iran's power structure, and by the authority of the Supreme Leader. It is the Supreme Leader, not the president, who controls the armed forces and makes decisions on security, defence and major foreign policy issues.

Our nations level of understanding on this topic, as a whole, is abysmal. The submissions here are just getting worse and worse.


I post stuff like that here all the time. Nobody, but nobody, wants to hear that their favorite nuclear-armed jihadi dictator has virtually no power to start a war with Israel (or America,for that matter). They really really are invested in the idea that Ahmadinejad is some kind of evil god-emperor.
 
2012-10-01 01:14:23 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Party Boy: So much fail. Let me count the ways

• Mahmoud Ahmadenijad to present him with an award. Did you mean Ahmadinejad?
• Hasidic Jewish Group Neturei Karta. Not representative. Ths isn't the first time they did this, either.
• Ahmadinejad doesnt control the military. In practice, however, presidential powers are circumscribed by the clerics and conservatives in Iran's power structure, and by the authority of the Supreme Leader. It is the Supreme Leader, not the president, who controls the armed forces and makes decisions on security, defence and major foreign policy issues.

Our nations level of understanding on this topic, as a whole, is abysmal. The submissions here are just getting worse and worse.

I post stuff like that here all the time. Nobody, but nobody, wants to hear that their favorite nuclear-armed jihadi dictator has virtually no power to start a war with Israel (or America,for that matter). They really really are invested in the idea that Ahmadinejad is some kind of evil god-emperor.


You've been farkied under "good arguments" for some time
Here's 2007, from According to legend, Iran's President has threatened to destroy Israel, or, to quote the misquote, "Israel must be wiped off the map". Contrary to popular belief, this statement was never made. Ignorance is Strength
Party Boy 2007-01-20 09:07:59 PM

img213.imageshack.us 

Man, that thread had the butthurt.
 
2012-10-01 01:19:20 PM  

Politicandy: Wait, even if they're ok with his stance on Israel, why are they cool with him calling them criminals and denying the Holocaust?


Pity for his ignorance?
 
2012-10-01 01:30:13 PM  

Party Boy: LibertyHiller: As one might recall from the case of a recent leader of Libya

No. no. no. No Analog needed.


As long as we're being all Peter Pedantic here, the spelling you should have used is "analogue" --that's because you're using the noun rather than the adjective.

Party Boy: Now focus on the spelling for "Ahmadinejad." Tell me thats not the overwhelmingly used standard for English.

Answer that. Specific and direct.


Yes, it does seem to be a generally accepted spelling. Happy?

Nevertheless, the point that I and others make about the lack of standard transliterations from one script to another remains as valid when going from an Arabic script to a Latin script as it does when going between Cyrillic and Latin. (And if you've read as much Russian history as I have, you'll know that there's no consensus on how to render some vowels, but I digress.)

In any event, you're complaining about a transposition of vowels that has since been corrected as well as the quality of reporting on a site that calls itself "The Daily Dolt." No wonder I have you Farkied as "jackass."
 
2012-10-01 01:33:02 PM  

LibertyHiller: Yes, it does seem to be a generally accepted spelling. Happy?


Yep. That whole discussion was not necessary.

Theres no need to analogs here.
 
2012-10-01 01:33:40 PM  

Party Boy: to


for
 
2012-10-01 01:50:13 PM  
Actually, Neturei Karta are not a Hasidic group. They are ultra-Orthodox, but Litvaks, not Hassidim.
 
2012-10-01 01:53:23 PM  

Dr Dreidel: While the NK isn't opposed to such harassment, they're not likely to be caught dead living in Israel, let alone such a modern place as Beit Shemesh. They'd be throwing rocks at everyone.


Uh yeah you are wrong, I live right next to Meah Shearim, and not only do plenty of them live in Meah Shearim, they are swarming Bet Shemesh and going crazy over there.


Well, all 50 of them anyway, but any of these self-described 'sikrim' is too many.
 
2012-10-01 01:58:39 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Party Boy: So much fail. Let me count the ways

• Mahmoud Ahmadenijad to present him with an award. Did you mean Ahmadinejad?
• Hasidic Jewish Group Neturei Karta. Not representative. Ths isn't the first time they did this, either.
• Ahmadinejad doesnt control the military. In practice, however, presidential powers are circumscribed by the clerics and conservatives in Iran's power structure, and by the authority of the Supreme Leader. It is the Supreme Leader, not the president, who controls the armed forces and makes decisions on security, defence and major foreign policy issues.

Our nations level of understanding on this topic, as a whole, is abysmal. The submissions here are just getting worse and worse.

I post stuff like that here all the time. Nobody, but nobody, wants to hear that their favorite nuclear-armed jihadi dictator has virtually no power to start a war with Israel (or America,for that matter). They really really are invested in the idea that Ahmadinejad is some kind of evil god-emperor.


If their 'god emperor' didn't like what he was saying he wouldn't be there.
 
2012-10-01 01:58:52 PM  
Sikrikim

The majority of these people are NK, its basically NK trying to rebrand itself and also start Taliban-like methods on other Ultra-Orthodox Jews.


I had the displeasure to shout at a few of them yesterday who were making asses of themselves at the beginning of Sukkot. Very few members, however very very active.
 
2012-10-01 02:04:28 PM  

Tatsuma: Sikrikim

The majority of these people are NK, its basically NK trying to rebrand itself and also start Taliban-like methods on other Ultra-Orthodox Jews.


I had the displeasure to shout at a few of them yesterday who were making asses of themselves at the beginning of Sukkot. Very few members, however very very active.


Bleh. So I was wrong about them not living in Israel, but right about them being rock-throwing shkutzim.

// about the worst term I can in good conscience use
// mamzerim would do, but sadly, they're allowed full participation in ritual
 
2012-10-01 02:10:42 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Bleh. So I was wrong about them not living in Israel, but right about them being rock-throwing shkutzim.


Oh not just rock-throwing, they will straight-up beat people. They are violent thugs. Hooligans. An absolute disgrace. There are few of them. Maybe 100-120 between Meah Shearim and Beit Shemesh, but they are just so violent and crazy that they command a great deal of power. They are basically holding the community hostage because well, what can people do?
 
2012-10-01 02:20:55 PM  

Tatsuma: Dr Dreidel: Bleh. So I was wrong about them not living in Israel, but right about them being rock-throwing shkutzim.

Oh not just rock-throwing, they will straight-up beat people. They are violent thugs. Hooligans. An absolute disgrace. There are few of them. Maybe 100-120 between Meah Shearim and Beit Shemesh, but they are just so violent and crazy that they command a great deal of power. They are basically holding the community hostage because well, what can people do?


I always get a bit of ITG in me when I hear this. I was never harassed in Israel - Beit Shemesh, Har Nof, Meah Shearim, wherever - probably owing in no small part to the fact that I'm 6'4, 260. Wearing my Megadeth T-shirt and blue jeans in Meah Shearim wasn't a problem 12 years ago, and I'd dare these jackoffs to try it now (that I have less compunction about hospitalizing a black-hatter or two).

I think of my cousins, both Israeli women (one is semi-famous), one served in the IDF, another currently serving, and I wonder where the hell they get off, but then I remember that yeshivot are great at teaching strictures and bad at teaching sociality.

// but then, I also remember being taught that if I had a problem with what was happening, it was MY responsibility to move
// and the Hillel bit
// and the part that says publicly shaming someone is akin to murdering them
// and the part where we judge others how we want G-d to judge us - through mercy or through judgement
// and the rest of the times where we're taught to not do this to each other
// we'll be waiting far more than 2,000 more years if we keep trying to catch flies with hydrofluoric acid
 
2012-10-01 02:57:22 PM  
The sign in the photo reads "Free Palestine". Why do I suspect that this "article" is intended to discredit Jewish peace activists?
 
2012-10-01 02:58:05 PM  

Tatsuma: Dr Dreidel: Bleh. So I was wrong about them not living in Israel, but right about them being rock-throwing shkutzim.

Oh not just rock-throwing, they will straight-up beat people. They are violent thugs. Hooligans. An absolute disgrace. There are few of them. Maybe 100-120 between Meah Shearim and Beit Shemesh, but they are just so violent and crazy that they command a great deal of power. They are basically holding the community hostage because well, what can people do?


Build a wall around them?
 
2012-10-01 03:07:41 PM  

Dr Dreidel: Tatsuma: Dr Dreidel: Bleh. So I was wrong about them not living in Israel, but right about them being rock-throwing shkutzim.

Oh not just rock-throwing, they will straight-up beat people. They are violent thugs. Hooligans. An absolute disgrace. There are few of them. Maybe 100-120 between Meah Shearim and Beit Shemesh, but they are just so violent and crazy that they command a great deal of power. They are basically holding the community hostage because well, what can people do?

I always get a bit of ITG in me when I hear this. I was never harassed in Israel - Beit Shemesh, Har Nof, Meah Shearim, wherever - probably owing in no small part to the fact that I'm 6'4, 260. Wearing my Megadeth T-shirt and blue jeans in Meah Shearim wasn't a problem 12 years ago, and I'd dare these jackoffs to try it now (that I have less compunction about hospitalizing a black-hatter or two).

I think of my cousins, both Israeli women (one is semi-famous), one served in the IDF, another currently serving, and I wonder where the hell they get off, but then I remember that yeshivot are great at teaching strictures and bad at teaching sociality.

// but then, I also remember being taught that if I had a problem with what was happening, it was MY responsibility to move
// and the Hillel bit
// and the part that says publicly shaming someone is akin to murdering them
// and the part where we judge others how we want G-d to judge us - through mercy or through judgement
// and the rest of the times where we're taught to not do this to each other
// we'll be waiting far more than 2,000 more years if we keep trying to catch flies with hydrofluoric acid


And this will teach me to post before reading the entire thread.
 
2012-10-01 03:07:52 PM  

Lunaville: The sign in the photo reads "Free Palestine". Why do I suspect that this "article" is intended to discredit Jewish peace activists?


You don't read well, do you? Read the rest of the thread, you sniveling apologist.
 
2012-10-01 03:14:57 PM  

nekulor: Lunaville: The sign in the photo reads "Free Palestine". Why do I suspect that this "article" is intended to discredit Jewish peace activists?

You don't read well, do you? Read the rest of the thread, you sniveling apologist.


That's an excellent idea. I think, in the future, I will endeavor to read the thread before posting. Thank-you for suggesting it.
 
2012-10-01 03:17:16 PM  

Tatsuma: Sikrikim

The majority of these people are NK, its basically NK trying to rebrand itself and also start Taliban-like methods on other Ultra-Orthodox Jews.


I had the displeasure to shout at a few of them yesterday who were making asses of themselves at the beginning of Sukkot. Very few members, however very very active.


How does one make an ass out of himself at Sukkot? "Your hut brings shame to the Jewish people!"?

It's refreshing to see that every religion has its batshiat crazy fringe.
 
2012-10-01 03:20:35 PM  

Tatsuma: Dr Dreidel: Bleh. So I was wrong about them not living in Israel, but right about them being rock-throwing shkutzim.

Oh not just rock-throwing, they will straight-up beat people. They are violent thugs. Hooligans. An absolute disgrace. There are few of them. Maybe 100-120 between Meah Shearim and Beit Shemesh, but they are just so violent and crazy that they command a great deal of power. They are basically holding the community hostage because well, what can people do?


Band together, overwhelm them, and submit them to public shaming? Does Jewish law allow for public shaming? If not, that's too bad.
 
2012-10-01 03:36:12 PM  
Can't get the article from work...
Was this the same basketcase that Bill Maher interviewed in Religulous?
 
2012-10-01 03:53:43 PM  
I don't know one Jew from another but that was nice. Very encouraging.
 
2012-10-01 04:22:46 PM  

liam76: Gyrfalcon: Party Boy: So much fail. Let me count the ways

• Mahmoud Ahmadenijad to present him with an award. Did you mean Ahmadinejad?
• Hasidic Jewish Group Neturei Karta. Not representative. Ths isn't the first time they did this, either.
• Ahmadinejad doesnt control the military. In practice, however, presidential powers are circumscribed by the clerics and conservatives in Iran's power structure, and by the authority of the Supreme Leader. It is the Supreme Leader, not the president, who controls the armed forces and makes decisions on security, defence and major foreign policy issues.

Our nations level of understanding on this topic, as a whole, is abysmal. The submissions here are just getting worse and worse.

I post stuff like that here all the time. Nobody, but nobody, wants to hear that their favorite nuclear-armed jihadi dictator has virtually no power to start a war with Israel (or America,for that matter). They really really are invested in the idea that Ahmadinejad is some kind of evil god-emperor.

If their 'god emperor' didn't like what he was saying he wouldn't be there.


It's this sort of misunderstanding that leads people in the Mid East to think the US government must directly support films that attack Islam.
 
2012-10-01 04:31:47 PM  

Tatsuma: Oh not just rock-throwing, they will straight-up beat people. They are violent thugs. Hooligans. An absolute disgrace. There are few of them. Maybe 100-120 between Meah Shearim and Beit Shemesh, but they are just so violent and crazy that they command a great deal of power. They are basically holding the community hostage because well, what can people do?


I'm sure someone, somewhere, sometime has come come up with a solution to problem Jews.
 
2012-10-01 04:47:08 PM  
So Westboro Baptist Synagogue then?
 
2012-10-01 07:08:02 PM  

wildcardjack: I'm pretty sure that Zionism and being Hassid are not mutual terms.

It's a patch of desert with little in the way of fertile lands or economicly useful resources. A Jewish promised land would be somewhere more like Appalachia, but alas there was this "take back" movement starting about 130 years ago.

And by shear numbers, I think South Florida is the Jewish homeland these days.


the Hasids go even further. They don't recognise Israel as a real state because that can only happen when the messiah comes. Look those guys are a whole new bunch of crazy. They are the Amish of the Jews, or at least they raise a lot of resentment amongst the common Jews, I can't go into this. I gotta go to work.
 
2012-10-01 07:26:16 PM  

nigeman: wildcardjack: I'm pretty sure that Zionism and being Hassid are not mutual terms.

It's a patch of desert with little in the way of fertile lands or economicly useful resources. A Jewish promised land would be somewhere more like Appalachia, but alas there was this "take back" movement starting about 130 years ago.

And by shear numbers, I think South Florida is the Jewish homeland these days.

the Hasids go even further. They don't recognise Israel as a real state because that can only happen when the messiah comes. Look those guys are a whole new bunch of crazy. They are the Amish of the Jews, or at least they raise a lot of resentment amongst the common Jews, I can't go into this. I gotta go to work.



The Amish don't exactly have level of political leverage the Hasids do though.
 
2012-10-01 08:03:34 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: liam76: Gyrfalcon: Party Boy: So much fail. Let me count the ways

• Mahmoud Ahmadenijad to present him with an award. Did you mean Ahmadinejad?
• Hasidic Jewish Group Neturei Karta. Not representative. Ths isn't the first time they did this, either.
• Ahmadinejad doesnt control the military. In practice, however, presidential powers are circumscribed by the clerics and conservatives in Iran's power structure, and by the authority of the Supreme Leader. It is the Supreme Leader, not the president, who controls the armed forces and makes decisions on security, defence and major foreign policy issues.

Our nations level of understanding on this topic, as a whole, is abysmal. The submissions here are just getting worse and worse.

I post stuff like that here all the time. Nobody, but nobody, wants to hear that their favorite nuclear-armed jihadi dictator has virtually no power to start a war with Israel (or America,for that matter). They really really are invested in the idea that Ahmadinejad is some kind of evil god-emperor.

If their 'god emperor' didn't like what he was saying he wouldn't be there.

It's this sort of misunderstanding that leads people in the Mid East to think the US government must directly support films that attack Islam.


I put "god emperor" in quotes because I was mocking Gyrfalcon's language, but the fact is that Ali Khamenei could have stopped Ahmadinejad from running, he could remove him from power, an he backed him in the 2009 election.

The only misunderstanding is from people like you that don't think it is a theocracy.
 
2012-10-01 08:17:21 PM  

Party Boy: Gilad Shalit


I loved his exercise-and-movie-review show on ESPN.
 
2012-10-01 08:22:23 PM  
Neturei Karta is not Hasidic. They are however "ultra-Orthodox", moreso than any hasidic branch I can think of.

Hasidic sects tend to be mystical and fond of dancing. Haredi sects are "holier than thou." The analogies in the American Christian world would be the Pentacostals (mystical) and the Seventh Day Adventists (by-the-book holy).

There is an anti-Zionist sect of Hasidim, the Satmars, but they don't go nearly as far as NK and in fact condemn them for having truck with enemies of all Jews. Even among very observant Jews there's a difference between anti-Zionism and anti-semitism. 

Me, I have no problem with a Zionist Jewish Israel that lives in peace with its neighbors, doesn't oppress anybody and quits trying to drag the USA into a world war over Iran's alleged nuclear capacity sometime in the future. And I'm an atheist commie goy.
 
2012-10-01 09:23:38 PM  
Woody Allen just spewed coffee all over his monitor, then frantically dialed his agent.
 
2012-10-02 09:08:57 AM  

liam76: I put "god emperor" in quotes because I was mocking Gyrfalcon's language, but the fact is that Ali Khamenei could have stopped Ahmadinejad from running, he could remove him from power, an he backed him in the 2009 election.

The only misunderstanding is from people like you that don't think it is a theocracy.


Once again your deep and profound ignorance of the Muslim world shines through.

Ahmadinejad-Khamenei Rift Deepens into Abyss
 
2012-10-02 09:54:22 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: liam76: I put "god emperor" in quotes because I was mocking Gyrfalcon's language, but the fact is that Ali Khamenei could have stopped Ahmadinejad from running, he could remove him from power, an he backed him in the 2009 election.

The only misunderstanding is from people like you that don't think it is a theocracy.

Once again your deep and profound ignorance of the Muslim world shines through.

Ahmadinejad-Khamenei Rift Deepens into Abyss


None of that counters what I said. That there are rifts between the two doesn't change the facts I mentioned, Khamenei could have stopped Ahmadinejad from running, he could remove him from power, and he backed him in the 2009 election.

And given that this article (in the post) is about Israel, Iran and Ahmadinejad it is pretty stupid you would bring up this link to counter my point (that Khamenei backs Ahmadinejad's harsh language towards Israel).

One of the point they bring up is that the hardline supporters of Khamenei were angered at Ahmadinejad's deputies saying that they are friends with the peopel of Israel.


Back in August 2008, when Mashaei was a vice president and head of the Organization for Cultural Heritage and Tourism, he said, "I proudly declare that the people of Iran are not the enemy of anyone and have no enemy anywhere. Our people are friends with the people of the world, even with the people of Israel." In a political system in which a central pillar of foreign policy is opposition to Israel, talking about friendship with the Israeli people is a grave violation of taboo. Two hundred Majles deputies wrote a letter to Ahmadinejad condemning what Mashaei had said, and asked the president to take action against him. Ahmadinejad and Mashaei paid no attention to the protests and pushed forward.

How is that a symbol of the divide between Ahmadinejad and Khamenei unless Khamenei's stance towards Israel isn't more agressive?

So to reiterate, the article points to rifts, but doesn't counter what I said, and one of the points they make to back up that rift is that Ahmadinejad didn't punish one of his subordinates for saying Iran was a friend to the people of Israel, yet somehow you think this means Khamenei is less of a hardliner to Israel? Or for that matter the green revolution, or for the rights of the young (other points the article brought up)?

Read more: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tehranbureau/2011/05/opinion-a hmadinejad-khamenei-rift-deepens-to-an-abyss.html#ixzz289Hx0hX8
 
2012-10-02 10:09:26 AM  

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: liam76: I put "god emperor" in quotes because I was mocking Gyrfalcon's language, but the fact is that Ali Khamenei could have stopped Ahmadinejad from running, he could remove him from power, an he backed him in the 2009 election.

The only misunderstanding is from people like you that don't think it is a theocracy.

Once again your deep and profound ignorance of the Muslim world shines through.

Ahmadinejad-Khamenei Rift Deepens into Abyss

None of that counters what I said. That there are rifts between the two doesn't change the facts I mentioned, Khamenei could have stopped Ahmadinejad from running, he could remove him from power, and he backed him in the 2009 election.

And given that this article (in the post) is about Israel, Iran and Ahmadinejad it is pretty stupid you would bring up this link to counter my point (that Khamenei backs Ahmadinejad's harsh language towards Israel).

One of the point they bring up is that the hardline supporters of Khamenei were angered at Ahmadinejad's deputies saying that they are friends with the peopel of Israel.


Back in August 2008, when Mashaei was a vice president and head of the Organization for Cultural Heritage and Tourism, he said, "I proudly declare that the people of Iran are not the enemy of anyone and have no enemy anywhere. Our people are friends with the people of the world, even with the people of Israel." In a political system in which a central pillar of foreign policy is opposition to Israel, talking about friendship with the Israeli people is a grave violation of taboo. Two hundred Majles deputies wrote a letter to Ahmadinejad condemning what Mashaei had said, and asked the president to take action against him. Ahmadinejad and Mashaei paid no attention to the protests and pushed forward.

How is that a symbol of the divide between Ahmadinejad and Khamenei unless Khamenei's stance towards Israel isn't more agressive?

So to reiterate, the article points to rifts, but doesn't counter ...


It counters your fantasy that Khamenei is all powerful and could dismiss Ahmanijad with a flick of his wrist anytime he wanted to. Both are severely constrained in their actions by fractured nature of the Iranian power structure.

Iran's politics are far more complex and far less unified than your fear addled mind con comprehend. All you see are evil,monolithic, enemies.
 
2012-10-02 10:51:38 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: It counters your fantasy that Khamenei is all powerful and could dismiss Ahmanijad with a flick of his wrist anytime he wanted to.


So are you too stupid to get, even after I spelled it out for you, that I was using "god-emperor" only because Gyrfalcon was? Too stupid to get what the point of the quotes was?

Because I never said he could dismiss anyone with the "flick of his wrist" nor did I say he is "all powerful", but when have you let what I said get in the way of the BS you spew.

Both are severely constrained in their actions by fractured nature of the Iranian power structure.

So you want to go on record here saying that the Supreme Leader of Iran couldn't stop Ahmanijad from running and couldn't remove him? Because that is what I said. Lets see if you can answer the question here instead of inserting BS about "all powerful" or "flick of his wrist".


Philip Francis Queeg: Iran's politics are far more complex and far less unified than your fear addled mind con comprehend. All you see are evil,monolithic, enemies.


I wonder why you didn't bring that up to all the other people in this thread who ponted out he (Ahmanijad) was little more than a figure head.

And all you see is unicorns and ponies, even when you post links backing up that the real power in Iran is even more anti Israel than the figurehead guy you think is really powerful, but not as powerful as the Supreme Leader.
 
2012-10-02 11:06:24 AM  

liam76: Both are severely constrained in their actions by fractured nature of the Iranian power structure.

So you want to go on record here saying that the Supreme Leader of Iran couldn't stop Ahmanijad from running and couldn't remove him? Because that is what I said. Lets see if you can answer the question here instead of inserting BS about "all powerful" or "flick of his wrist".


He could have tried to prevent him. Whether or not he would have been successful is another question all together.

liam76:

I wonder why you didn't bring that up to all the other people in this thread who ponted out he (Ahmanijad) was little more than a figure head.

And all you see is unicorns and ponies, even when you post links backing up that the real power in Iran is even more anti Israel than the figurehead guy you think is really powerful, but not as powerful as the Supreme Leader.


When have I ever asserted that Ahmanijad is powerful? Ahmanijad is gone in less than a year. Saying that Khamenei isn't as powerful as you claim he is says nothing about Ahmanijad's power. Both must deal with the factions and organizations that hold portions of the power structure within the country. Both must ultimately answer to others. Both need other groups to maintain what power they have. Neither is an independent actor.

As i said, Iran's power structure is far more complex than your simplistic propaganda paints it.
 
2012-10-02 12:10:15 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: When have I ever asserted that Ahmanijad is powerful? Ahmanijad is gone in less than a year. Saying that Khamenei isn't as powerful as you claim he is says nothing about Ahmanijad's power. Both must deal with the factions and organizations that hold portions of the power structure within the country.Both must ultimately answer to others. Both need other groups to maintain what power they have. Neither is an independent actor


If Khamenei has to worry about or contend with Ahmanijad as one of those "factions" then yes you are asserting he has power. If Khamenei has to ultimately answer to Ahmanijad as one of those "factions" then yes you are asserting he has power.

Philip Francis Queeg: As i said, Iran's power structure is far more complex than your simplistic propaganda paints it


My 'propaganda' has said he has the power to remove Ahmanijad, had the power to prevent him from running, and supported him in 09. I am sorry you think that is propaganda.

Interesting that in trying to "disprove" that propaganda you reinforced the fact that Khamenei has just as strong or stronger anti Israel stance.
 
2012-10-02 12:33:06 PM  

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: When have I ever asserted that Ahmanijad is powerful? Ahmanijad is gone in less than a year. Saying that Khamenei isn't as powerful as you claim he is says nothing about Ahmanijad's power. Both must deal with the factions and organizations that hold portions of the power structure within the country.Both must ultimately answer to others. Both need other groups to maintain what power they have. Neither is an independent actor

If Khamenei has to worry about or contend with Ahmanijad as one of those "factions" then yes you are asserting he has power. If Khamenei has to ultimately answer to Ahmanijad as one of those "factions" then yes you are asserting he has power.


Ahmanijad does have some power. Much of that power is due to other groups and individuals using him as a counter to Khamenei and other groups and individuals, but he is not tw=ithout some power of his own. His own personal power is appearing to wane quickly as the end of his term, for which he cannot run again looms.

liam76:

My 'propaganda' has said he has the power to remove Ahmanijad, had the power to prevent him from running, and supported him in 09. I am sorry you think that is propaganda.

Interesting that in trying to "disprove" that propaganda you reinforced the fact that Khamenei has just as strong or stronger anti Israel stance.


It is propaganda. It s a falsehood.

Again you are trying to simplistically paint the Iranian political situation. It isn't a case of one evil bogey man with supreme power who can dismiss rivals whenever he wants as you repeatedly claim Khamenei can.

Look I know that having a single, all powerful bad guy will help justify the war you desire. You like many other propagandists have invested a lot over the years in making Ahmanijad appear to be that guy. Now that he is on his way out in a matter of months, you need to find a new subject for your fear mongering and have settled on Khamenei in case Israel doesn't start the war before Ahmanijad is out of office.

Fear not, I'm sure there will be piles of dead Iranians for you to cheer about no matter who has the power. The blood will flow, your desires will will be fulfilled.
 
2012-10-02 01:59:19 PM  

Philip Francis Queeg: Ahmanijad does have some power. Much of that power is due to other groups and individuals using him as a counter to Khamenei and other groups and individuals, but he is not tw=ithout some power of his own. His own personal power is appearing to wane quickly as the end of his term, for which he cannot run again looms.


Seems like you are splitting hairs here. If they guy is powerful enough to be a threat or something that Khamenei, the supreme leader, has to contend with I would say (in the context of Iran) he is very powerful.

Philip Francis Queeg: It is propaganda. It s a falsehood.


What, about Israel? Then you should take that up with your own source.

Philip Francis Queeg: Again you are trying to simplistically paint the Iranian political situation. It isn't a case of one evil bogey man with supreme power who can dismiss rivals whenever he wants as you repeatedly claim Khamenei can.


Congress can impeach and remove the president? Yes.

Does that mean they have supreme power? No.

Does that mean they can do it whenever they want? No (there is a process inplace that takes time).

You see how dishonest you are?

Philip Francis Queeg: Look I know that having a single, all powerful bad guy will help justify the war you desire.


Look I know lying, repeatedly about things I have corrected you on numerous times, will help justify your BS claims in your head, but it doesn't change the fact that they are BS claims.

Philip Francis Queeg: You like many other propagandists have invested a lot over the years in making Ahmanijad appear to be that guy.


No, for years I have been saying Iran was a theocracy, run by the Ayatollah. But since when does what I say have anything to do with what you pretend is going on.

Philip Francis Queeg: Fear not, I'm sure there will be piles of dead Iranians for you to cheer about no matter who has the power. The blood will flow, your desires will will be fulfilled


Can't even get through one paragraph honestly, can you?
 
2012-10-02 05:27:32 PM  

liam76: Philip Francis Queeg: Ahmanijad does have some power. Much of that power is due to other groups and individuals using him as a counter to Khamenei and other groups and individuals, but he is not tw=ithout some power of his own. His own personal power is appearing to wane quickly as the end of his term, for which he cannot run again looms.

Seems like you are splitting hairs here. If they guy is powerful enough to be a threat or something that Khamenei, the supreme leader, has to contend with I would say (in the context of Iran) he is very powerful.


It's not "splitting" hairs. It's recognize the complexity or reality, something you are clearly not intellectually capable of. You see white hats and black hats. Nothing in between.

liam76:

Congress can impeach and remove the president? Yes.

Does that mean they have supreme power? No.

Does that mean they can do it whenever they want? No (there is a process inplace that takes time).


And once again you succeed in demolishing your own original statement.

If their 'god emperor' didn't like what he was saying he wouldn't be there.


So in your brilliant analysis, it can always be said that if the Congress didn't like what the President was doing, he wouldn't be there. After all they have the power to impeach him, so the fact that they haven't must imply support for all his statements and actions.

Bravo, you once again prove yourself to be the ignorant fool we all know you to be.
 
2012-10-03 01:35:24 AM  

Arkanaut: Neturei Karta

Wasn't this the group that was harassing girls going to elementary school for not dressing conservatively enough? I seem to remember Tats saying that in an old thread. I'm thinking the meeting went something like this:

NK: "Thanks for keeping us in business, Mahmoud!"
AM: "Same to you!"


They get paid good money to show up to these events.
 
2012-10-03 01:54:31 AM  

Tatsuma: Actually, Neturei Karta are not a Hasidic group. They are ultra-Orthodox, but Litvaks, not Hassidim.


I was about to correct you till I checked wiki. Guess they wear stroimels because they dress yerushalmi?

Every time we talk about NK, I'm reminded of this little satmar girl I once dated. Real sweet woman. Grew up in Kiryat Yoel. Well, turns out she was once set up with one of these NK guys. We didn't last long.

I think these guys lean heavily on satmar for schools, and stuff. I could be wrong though.
 
2012-10-03 06:35:39 AM  

Philip Francis Queeg: It's not "splitting" hairs. It's recognize the complexity or reality, something you are clearly not intellectually capable of. You see white hats and black hats. Nothing in between.


From the guy who got butt hurt when I said "very powerful" when he only meant "powerful", ok.


Philip Francis Queeg: And once again you succeed in demolishing your own original statement.


No I pointed out that saying that Khamenei can remove the president or stop him from running doesn't mean he is "all powerful".


Philip Francis Queeg: So in your brilliant analysis, it can always be said that if the Congress didn't like what the President was doing, he wouldn't be there. After all they have the power to impeach him, so the fact that they haven't must imply support for all his statements and actions.


Are you really that stupid? Congress is a group of people, Khamenei is one dude.

And as your article pointed out one of Khamenei's problems with the president is that he wasn't anti-Israel enough.

Philip Francis Queeg: Bravo, you once again prove yourself to be the ignorant fool we all know you to be


Well hats off to you, at least this time you didn't outright lie, just responded in such an obtuse manner that you think you can judge the actions of a diverse body consisting of hundreds of people (who are beholden to a party that about half share with their president) are exactly like those of an individual who has no party affiliation with their president.

I guess going from dishonest to pants ont he head stupid is a step in the right direction.
 
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