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(Local10 WPLG)   Cops searching neighborhood are unable to locate bicycle thief, instead fall back on basic police procedure: Pick a backyard at random and shoot the dog   (local10.com) divider line 177
    More: Fail, police procedure, Hollywood, backyards, dogs, robbery  
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9275 clicks; posted to Main » on 01 Oct 2012 at 1:29 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-10-01 10:40:52 PM

CruiserTwelve: fredklein: No, but they seriously stayed and shot the dog instead of retreating.

I didn't know you were there.


And you were, I suppose?

You have pepper spray, as effective a dog deterrent as it is a people deterrent. You have a stun gun (actually, do you still carry those, or is it all Tasers now?) - just BUZZING a stun gun without making contact deters a dog attack. You have the clubs and blackjacks you use to assault your citizen employers with impunity any time you feel slighted. You have feet. At some point in your career, you actually had to pass a test of some sort.

I was at a big dog event in Aurora two days ago. I attended a demonstration by an Aurora PD K-9 handler and another handler from Commerce City. Handler seemed like a nice, professional guy who seemed to love his K9 partner. Did an obedience demo and some bite work, answered questions, and boosted the Colorado Police Canine Association. Talked about treatment of retired K9s. He spoke no less than four times, very earnestly, about how "these dogs are our children", "members of our family".

You for any reason you choose open my gate, walk into my yard, and shoot MY family member to death as punishment for doing her job by barking at you, you walk away without a second thoughy, pang of conscience, or least notion of apology.

If I so much as raise a hand against an attacking police K9 I get charged with resisting and assaulting an officer. If I were to kill one in self-defense I'd get charged with murder.

/csb: during Q&A, one of the dogs raised a leg and pissed on the Commerce City handler's shoe.
 
2012-10-01 10:41:31 PM

CruiserTwelve: Kinda like the creative writing you used in your answer? I asked about an aggressive pit bull and you turned it into a tail-wagging spaniel that was greeting them.


The "aggressive pit bull" is your story.
 
2012-10-01 10:57:58 PM

CruiserTwelve: fredklein: No, but they seriously stayed and shot the dog instead of retreating.

I didn't know you were there.


Ok, now I KNOW you're a troll.
 
2012-10-01 11:22:43 PM

david_gaithersburg: Smoking GNU: david_gaithersburg: I wish they would do this more often, a community service

Go DIAF, you goddamn piece of useless human filth.

.
.
All pit bulls should be put down, they are not domesticated animals.


You need to leave your basement and meet any of the hundreds of pit bulls I've met/worked with that were bundles of love and licks.
 
2012-10-01 11:33:30 PM

BuckTurgidson: You have pepper spray, as effective a dog deterrent as it is a people deterrent. You have a stun gun (actually, do you still carry those, or is it all Tasers now?) - just BUZZING a stun gun without making contact deters a dog attack. You have the clubs and blackjacks you use to assault your citizen employers with impunity any time you feel slighted. You have feet. At some point in your career, you actually had to pass a test of some sort.


We don't carry pepper spray any more. Tasers replaced stun guns, which we never carried anyhow. We carry batons but not black jacks.

I was at a big dog event in Aurora two days ago. I attended a demonstration by an Aurora PD K-9 handler and another handler from Commerce City. Handler seemed like a nice, professional guy who seemed to love his K9 partner. Did an obedience demo and some bite work, answered questions, and boosted the Colorado Police Canine Association. Talked about treatment of retired K9s. He spoke no less than four times, very earnestly, about how "these dogs are our children", "members of our family".

You for any reason you choose open my gate, walk into my yard, and shoot MY family member to death as punishment for doing her job by barking at you, you walk away without a second thoughy, pang of conscience, or least notion of apology.


Do you think that's what happened in this scenario? I don't know exactly what happened any more than you do, but I doubt the cop had any cruel intentions when he shot the dog, and I'm sure he was remorseful. He certainly didn't shoot the dog "as punishment for doing her job," as you say.

If I so much as raise a hand against an attacking police K9 I get charged with resisting and assaulting an officer. If I were to kill one in self-defense I'd get charged with murder.

No, you wouldn't. Look up the statutes for those crimes and tell me how they apply to a dog.
 
2012-10-01 11:37:13 PM

BuckTurgidson: The "aggressive pit bull" is your story.


It wasn't my story, it was a question. My question was this: "If you're a training officer, what do you tell cops to do whan encountering an aggressive pit bull?" Your response had something to do with a tail-wagging spaniel.
 
2012-10-02 12:06:19 AM

CruiserTwelve: You for any reason you choose open my gate, walk into my yard, and shoot MY family member to death as punishment for doing her job by barking at you, you walk away without a second thoughy, pang of conscience, or least notion of apology.

Do you think that's what happened in this scenario? I don't know exactly what happened any more than you do, but I doubt the cop had any cruel intentions when he shot the dog, and I'm sure he was remorseful. He certainly didn't shoot the dog "as punishment for doing her job," as you say.


We both speculate. But, yes I do tend toward, in the absence of further evidence, the theory the cop opened the gate, went into the back yard, encountered a scary looking dog defending - as is its bred-for-millenia job - that back yard by barking and snarling, and chose "pumping it full of lead" as the first option. Absence in the story of bite-marks, stitches, or tetanus shots is of course purely circumstantial.

If I so much as raise a hand against an attacking police K9 I get charged with resisting and assaulting an officer. If I were to kill one in self-defense I'd get charged with murder.

No, you wouldn't. Look up the statutes for those crimes and tell me how they apply to a dog.


Very well. So I can kill a police dog with the same impunity a police officer can kill my dog, then?
 
2012-10-02 12:24:47 AM

CruiserTwelve: BuckTurgidson: The "aggressive pit bull" is your story.

It wasn't my story, it was a question. My question was this: "If you're a training officer, what do you tell cops to do whan encountering an aggressive pit bull?"


Adopt a dominant posture and attitude, raising a hand and shouting "NO!" as you deploy your pepper spray (or, according to the situation, your stun gun). That's it.

By this time you've assessed whether the demon dog Charon from Hell ... aggressive pit-bull ...tail-wagging spaniel is in fact attacking you, or merely (successfully, most likely, sugarpants) intimidating you.

OK, I'm sorry, it really is terrifying squat-built dog with wide jaws (boxer? "pit bull"? rotty-lab-mutt? corgi-coonhound? pinscher-schnoodle?)

If actually attacking - engaging you or your uniform with its teeth - stun the little biatch with your stun gun or pepperspray its eyes or kick it or club it or shoot it as seems fit.

You are pretty clear on when it is and when it is not appropriate to use lethal force against a human - a tool-using creature of roughly equal size and intelligence as yourself - yes?
 
2012-10-02 01:39:08 AM

fusillade762: "Hey look, there's a big mean dog barking in this yard. Our perp MUST be hiding there!"


I doubt that a cop would enter a yard knowing there's a defensive dog in the yard. What likely happened was that the dog was sleeping, the cop entered the yard not knowing the dog was there, the dog woke up, thought the cop was an intruder, cop thought he was being attacked and defended himself.
 
2012-10-02 01:58:45 AM
But try telling that to a cop hater. They won't listen. To them, facts like that don't matter or are otherwise irrelevant because they're prejudiced against cops. And then they refuse to admit they are so. Go figure.
 
2012-10-02 08:48:52 AM
One thing I noticed when watching the video that made me even more upset. The fence the dog was in was a chain linked fence. No higher then 3 feet. The cop could of easily escape by jumping said fence. Or heres another thing, the house next door, did not have a fence. So he could of walked over and looked into the yard and did a quick check before entering.

I think the death of the dog is all on him for not using his head. He should be punished either by having to pay for a replacement dog of equal or greater value or being fired all together (and be branded a dog killer and not allowed to work in law enforcement again).
 
2012-10-02 08:51:38 AM

BuckTurgidson: If actually attacking - engaging you or your uniform with its teeth - stun the little biatch with your stun gun or pepperspray its eyes or kick it or club it or shoot it as seems fit.


So you should let the dog bite you before you defend yourself?
 
2012-10-02 09:02:55 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: thought the cop was an intruder


The cop WAS intruding.
 
2012-10-02 11:38:01 AM

CruiserTwelve: BuckTurgidson: If I so much as raise a hand against an attacking police K9 I get charged with resisting and assaulting an officer. If I were to kill one in self-defense I'd get charged with murder.

No, you wouldn't. Look up the statutes for those crimes and tell me how they apply to a dog.


Yes, you would. I posted some news links last time this came up.

There are no statutes that I could find, but there appears to be a "gentlemen's agreement" between Police, prosecutors, and the courts that any offense to a K9 will be charged as if it were a human Officer.
 
2012-10-02 03:31:51 PM

CruiserTwelve: BuckTurgidson: If actually attacking - engaging you or your uniform with its teeth - stun the little biatch with your stun gun or pepperspray its eyes or kick it or club it or shoot it as seems fit.

So you should let the dog bite you before you defend yourself?


You should be trained in and use rational situation assessment and if force is rationally needed in an animal encounter, use non-lethal force as the first option (you know, like you're supposed to do with people). You'll still have the option of lethal force after that - it doesn't work the other way around though.

I've said it before: prior to being put on the streets in our police cruisers with our gear and our tax-dollars funding their union-protected full-benefits-with-pension career from which it is virtually impossible to get and stay fired regardless of outrageous and downright criminal conduct, new police officers should be required to spend two months walking a route as mail carriers to overcome their violent terror of pooches.
 
2012-10-02 05:04:37 PM

CruiserTwelve: That's non-responsive to my question. What do you teach officers to do if they encounter an aggressive pit bull while doing their job?


Let's try: don't charge blindly into a fenced private yard without a) probable cause and b) checking it for threats from a safe vantage point?

How about: don't recklessly endanger the lives and callously destroy the property of the citizens you're supposed to be protecting during a gung-ho pursuit of a petty thief?
 
2012-10-02 09:29:45 PM

fnordfocus: There are no statutes that I could find, but there appears to be a "gentlemen's agreement" between Police, prosecutors, and the courts that any offense to a K9 will be charged as if it were a human Officer.


Impossible. The victim of a murder or assault must be another human being. The only possible statute, barring a specific statute referencing police dogs, would be cruelty to animals.
 
2012-10-02 09:36:41 PM

clyph: Let's try: don't charge blindly into a fenced private yard without a) probable cause and b) checking it for threats from a safe vantage point?

How about: don't recklessly endanger the lives and callously destroy the property of the citizens you're supposed to be protecting during a gung-ho pursuit of a petty thief?


Punching someone in the face and taking their bike is not petty theft, it's robbery.It's the difference between a low misdemeanor and a felony. And...

Y'know what? Fark it. You guys aren't going to be reasonable no matter what I say. Cops are always wrong and nothing is going to change that in your minds. I'm not going to waste any more of my time.
 
2012-10-02 09:39:11 PM

CruiserTwelve: Y'know what? Fark it. You guys aren't going to be reasonable no matter what I say. Cops are always wrong and nothing is going to change that in your minds. I'm not going to waste any more of my time.


4.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-02 11:05:09 PM

CruiserTwelve: clyph: Let's try: don't charge blindly into a fenced private yard without a) probable cause and b) checking it for threats from a safe vantage point?

How about: don't recklessly endanger the lives and callously destroy the property of the citizens you're supposed to be protecting during a gung-ho pursuit of a petty thief?

Punching someone in the face and taking their bike is not petty theft, it's robbery.It's the difference between a low misdemeanor and a felony. And...

Y'know what? Fark it. You guys aren't going to be reasonable no matter what I say. Cops are always wrong and nothing is going to change that in your minds. I'm not going to waste any more of my time.


Don't tase us, bro!
 
2012-10-02 11:09:04 PM

CruiserTwelve: fnordfocus: There are no statutes that I could find, but there appears to be a "gentlemen's agreement" between Police, prosecutors, and the courts that any offense to a K9 will be charged as if it were a human Officer.

Impossible. The victim of a murder or assault must be another human being. The only possible statute, barring a specific statute referencing police dogs, would be cruelty to animals.


Don't troll us, bro!
 
2012-10-02 11:22:28 PM

CruiserTwelve: fnordfocus: There are no statutes that I could find, but there appears to be a "gentlemen's agreement" between Police, prosecutors, and the courts that any offense to a K9 will be charged as if it were a human Officer.

Impossible. The victim of a murder or assault must be another human being. The only possible statute, barring a specific statute referencing police dogs, would be cruelty to animals.


I didn't say there was a statute. I said that y'all, along with prosecutors and court, all agree to the "legal fiction" that a K9 Officer should be treated as a human in court.

Here's one example of a life sentence under the UCMJ, but I found civilian examples when I Googled before. Too lazy to do it again this time since you've already decide to leave again.
 
2012-10-02 11:22:36 PM

CruiserTwelve: Cops are always wrong and nothing is going to change that in your minds.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-10-02 11:33:20 PM

CruiserTwelve: Y'know what? Fark it. You guys aren't going to be reasonable no matter what I say. Cops are always wrong and nothing is going to change that in your minds. I


I'm willing to give you a chance to explain yourself.

OK, so it's a low-grade felony instead of a misdemeanor. The perp is a violent felon. I'll concede that point. It doesn't help your case, but I'll concede it.

You still haven't addressed the key point: why this chucklehead put himself in the position where he "had" to shoot the dog in the first place.

Do you consider it proper police procedure to blindly pursue a violent felon into an enclosed area, where the officer (demonstrably) could not see a lurking threat, without backup? Do you feel that the officer's actions demonstrate good judgement?

If so, explain.

If not, what would you consider to be an appropriate sanction for the officer involved?

Do you feel the officer owes the owner of the dead dog a personal apology? Does the department owe him an official apology?
 
2012-10-02 11:45:15 PM

fnordfocus: Here's one example of a life sentence under the UCMJ, but I found civilian examples when I Googled before. Too lazy to do it again this time since you've already decide to leave again.


Just GIS "police dog funeral". Be sure to hum Amazing Grace with a tear in your eye as you do.
 
2012-10-03 04:41:21 AM

Slartibartfaster: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: thought the cop was an intruder

The cop WAS intruding.


Technically, yes. But he was not intruding with the intent to steal something or otherwise cause harm
 
2012-10-03 08:36:26 AM

Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: Slartibartfaster: Cloudchaser Sakonige the Red Wolf: thought the cop was an intruder

The cop WAS intruding.

Technically, yes. But he was not intruding with the intent to steal something or otherwise cause harm


Intruding is still intruding with or without the intend to stealing or causing harm.
 
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