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(Green Bay Press Gazette)   Washington State wants to get rid of Native American Mascots. Claims it's better for the Native Americans. Native Americans are going WTF?   (greenbaypressgazette.com) divider line 187
    More: Dumbass, Olympic Peninsula  
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7145 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Sep 2012 at 3:12 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-30 01:59:34 PM  
FTFA: "My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Redskin."

"My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Jap."

"My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Negro."

"My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Beaner."
 
2012-09-30 02:12:44 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: FTFA: "My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Redskin."

"My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Jap."

"My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Negro."

"My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Beaner."


Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.
 
2012-09-30 02:19:17 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.


That's a pretty big assumption though. Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended? That kid would be tortured relentlessly if he were to speak up and ask for the mascot to be changed, not only by the current students, but locals who have nothing else to do but stand up for their "Proud Redskin traditions."
 
2012-09-30 02:57:57 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Benevolent Misanthrope: Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.

That's a pretty big assumption though. Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended? That kid would be tortured relentlessly if he were to speak up and ask for the mascot to be changed, not only by the current students, but locals who have nothing else to do but stand up for their "Proud Redskin traditions."



I'm reminded of when the NCAA went through their "no Native American names, they're offensive" phase. I was working at Florida State. The NCAA sent FSU notice that they could no longer be the Seminoles and that it was disrespectful to Native Americans, commitment to diversity, sensitivity to cultural differences, yadda yadda yadda. They meant well, I'm sure.

The Seminole Tribe came to a meeting on campus, in costume, shook hands with the University dignitaries, and gave a very nice speech telling the NCAA to bugger off and mind their own farking business. Indians can say for themselves what's offensive to them. They don't need a bunch of rich white guys to patronize them and tell them what they like or don't.

That's the kind of thing I mean.
 
2012-09-30 03:00:04 PM  
Washington State wants to get rid of Native American Mascots. Claims it's better for the Native Americans.

How?
 
2012-09-30 03:10:27 PM  
Yeah but they're getting rid of them my throwing tiny, small-pox infested blankets over them.
 
2012-09-30 03:11:10 PM  
*by
 
2012-09-30 03:14:06 PM  
lygsbtd.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-30 03:17:29 PM  
imageshack.us
 
2012-09-30 03:18:49 PM  
I'm okay with this.

Come up with an original nickname you tools.
 
2012-09-30 03:19:20 PM  
That logo on the gym floor looks pretty cool.
 
2012-09-30 03:19:49 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Benevolent Misanthrope: Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.

That's a pretty big assumption though. Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended? That kid would be tortured relentlessly if he were to speak up and ask for the mascot to be changed, not only by the current students, but locals who have nothing else to do but stand up for their "Proud Redskin traditions."


I'm reminded of when the NCAA went through their "no Native American names, they're offensive" phase. I was working at Florida State. The NCAA sent FSU notice that they could no longer be the Seminoles and that it was disrespectful to Native Americans, commitment to diversity, sensitivity to cultural differences, yadda yadda yadda. They meant well, I'm sure.

The Seminole Tribe came to a meeting on campus, in costume, shook hands with the University dignitaries, and gave a very nice speech telling the NCAA to bugger off and mind their own farking business. Indians can say for themselves what's offensive to them. They don't need a bunch of rich white guys to patronize them and tell them what they like or don't.

That's the kind of thing I mean.


Was that the NCAA that is headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana?
 
2012-09-30 03:20:52 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Benevolent Misanthrope: Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.

That's a pretty big assumption though. Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended? That kid would be tortured relentlessly if he were to speak up and ask for the mascot to be changed, not only by the current students, but locals who have nothing else to do but stand up for their "Proud Redskin traditions."


I'm reminded of when the NCAA went through their "no Native American names, they're offensive" phase. I was working at Florida State. The NCAA sent FSU notice that they could no longer be the Seminoles and that it was disrespectful to Native Americans, commitment to diversity, sensitivity to cultural differences, yadda yadda yadda. They meant well, I'm sure.

The Seminole Tribe came to a meeting on campus, in costume, shook hands with the University dignitaries, and gave a very nice speech telling the NCAA to bugger off and mind their own farking business. Indians can say for themselves what's offensive to them. They don't need a bunch of rich white guys to patronize them and tell them what they like or don't.

That's the kind of thing I mean.


Same thing with the Fighting Souix (sp?) in North Dakota. The school asked the lakota if they could use the name in the 30's, in the 60's (IIRC) the tribes reaffirmed it, and the NCAA forced the, to change it a cople years ago over the protests of one of the tribes.
 
2012-09-30 03:22:04 PM  
BTW confusion: Yes these indians are called "Mohawk" but they're not the same Mohawks as in the Iroquois Confederation. They're named for the River, which is named for the other River in NYS, which is named for the Iroquois Mohawks.
 
2012-09-30 03:24:23 PM  
"My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Redskin."

These are redskins:
i48.tinypic.com

These are Native Americans:
i46.tinypic.com
Link

I know, I know, it's confusing, but there you go.

/Actually, I'd love to see a bunch of new potato mascots in Washington.
 
2012-09-30 03:24:32 PM  
Redskins is pretty weird.

Warriors, Braves, etc. Those seem like flattery. People are identifying with historical characters, or want to be associated with their admirable traits.

Same with Seminoles, Apaches, etc. but only IF actual Seminoles and Apaches approve, otherwise no, don't do that.
 
2012-09-30 03:25:09 PM  
My paternal grandmother was born on a reservation hundreds of miles away from her ancestral home, thanks to Andrew Jackson. The government needs to stop "helping"... Thank you.

/Native
 
2012-09-30 03:25:50 PM  
My hometown made it on Fark!

I graduated from Port Townsend High School in '96 and I still live here. This issue came up twice when I was in school, and both times the kids voted to keep the name. We did get rid of the mascot with the big feathered headdress and giant nose, and we also quit doing the hand gesture known as the "Tomahawk Chop." As I understand it, the Tomahawk Chop has reappeared in the last couple of years.

I believe we should change the name. It's racist. I do seem to be in the minority here.
 
2012-09-30 03:28:53 PM  
The Seminole tribe endorses Florida State's use of the term and even their mascot, so this isn't unprecedented.
 
2012-09-30 03:29:11 PM  
My suggestion is that we keep the red skin but move it to a specific part of the body. We'll be the Port Townsend Rednecks.
 
2012-09-30 03:29:52 PM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Washington State wants to get rid of Native American Mascots. Claims it's better for the Native Americans.

How?


Blanket statements.
 
2012-09-30 03:30:23 PM  
"Native Americans". Suggesting they evolved in the Americas. I love me some politics.

Anthropology and the like have been moving towards "aboriginal", "indigenous", and other terms that move away from the outright suggestion that their ancestors didn't arrive in the Americas from another land. The term "African American" is equally as ridiculous as, assuming the "Out of Africa" theory is correct, we are all African by ancestry.

I may not have a dark complexion and certain physical traits associated with those people currently living in Africa whose ancestors didn't leave for other lands but that doesn't mean I don't share lineage with the !Kung.

In this case, you can't please everyone 100% of the time. Someone is bound to be offended at the thought of being offended so we should just sit with our collective thumbs jammed up our asses to appease them?
 
2012-09-30 03:30:42 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: I'm reminded of when the NCAA went through their "no Native American names, they're offensive" phase. I was working at Florida State. The NCAA sent FSU notice that they could no longer be the Seminoles and that it was disrespectful to Native Americans, commitment to diversity, sensitivity to cultural differences, yadda yadda yadda. They meant well, I'm sure.

The Seminole Tribe came to a meeting on campus, in costume, shook hands with the University dignitaries, and gave a very nice speech telling the NCAA to bugger off and mind their own farking business.


Came here for this. Leaving satisfied.
 
2012-09-30 03:35:36 PM  
As an American of Norwegian descent, I find the "Minnesota Vikings" to be offensive.

/not really, just feigning outrage for shiats & giggles
 
2012-09-30 03:35:40 PM  

Inaditch: We'll be the Port Townsend Rednecks.



http://ozarkhillbillies.org/
 
2012-09-30 03:36:01 PM  
Farking retards.
(all due respect to "actual" retards)

I was born here. I is a native and I don't need any more Nanny bullchit.
 
2012-09-30 03:36:04 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Benevolent Misanthrope: Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.

That's a pretty big assumption though. Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended? That kid would be tortured relentlessly if he were to speak up and ask for the mascot to be changed, not only by the current students, but locals who have nothing else to do but stand up for their "Proud Redskin traditions."


I'm reminded of when the NCAA went through their "no Native American names, they're offensive" phase. I was working at Florida State. The NCAA sent FSU notice that they could no longer be the Seminoles and that it was disrespectful to Native Americans, commitment to diversity, sensitivity to cultural differences, yadda yadda yadda. They meant well, I'm sure.

The Seminole Tribe came to a meeting on campus, in costume, shook hands with the University dignitaries, and gave a very nice speech telling the NCAA to bugger off and mind their own farking business. Indians can say for themselves what's offensive to them. They don't need a bunch of rich white guys to patronize them and tell them what they like or don't.

That's the kind of thing I mean.


I remember that whole kerfluffle. FSU had gone through long, careful negotiations with the Seminole Nation about using the image of Chief Osceola, and when and how it could be used. The Seminoles are quite proud of Chief Osceola, the only war chief never to be defeated by the US Army. If they had an issue with it, I'm sure they would never have allowed use of the image. And telling them they should be insulted was, itself very insulting.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. As in this case.
 
2012-09-30 03:36:08 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended?


We can't have someone offended at the new name either, so all teams should have no names and be referred to only by the colors they wear instead.

Announcer: "The red and black players are strong today, but it seems the yellow and white players are superior and will take the win."

No one gets offended. Ta da!
padresteve.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-30 03:37:03 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: what if somebody transfers in and is offended?


Someone might be offended!?! Oh, the humanity!
othersideofscience.com
 
2012-09-30 03:37:18 PM  
The same thing happened in my hometown's Midwestern State University. They were the Indians and supported by the local tribe yet they became the Mustangs. The whole thing is ridiculous.
 
2012-09-30 03:38:59 PM  
Yes, let us remove any vestige of a civilization from usage. In a few generations they will be forgotten, just as the ones who came before them were.
 
2012-09-30 03:41:07 PM  

Tobin_Lam: The same thing happened in my hometown's Midwestern State University. They were the Indians and supported by the local tribe yet they became the Mustangs. The whole thing is ridiculous.


Yes, it's important to wipe out any remaining trace that there was anyone here before the European settlers. Renaming sports teams to remove all mention of the natives is another small step forward in that goal.

/in all seriousness, sports teams are usually points of pride, and named after people/things that are considered powerful & formidable -- the naming should be (and, I think, usually is taken as) a compliment
 
2012-09-30 03:41:40 PM  

bojon: Yes, let us remove any vestige of a civilization from usage. In a few generations they will be forgotten, just as the ones who came before them were.


Are you kidding? The local res has the best prices on booze and smokes. No one forgets that.
 
2012-09-30 03:44:06 PM  
Kids, we say it doesn't matter to be called an Indian, but we think being called an Indian is bad, so we're getting rid of these mascots. But don't think that it is because we think it is bad.
 
2012-09-30 03:44:43 PM  

Canton: These are Native Americans:


As you probably know, many American Indians dislike the name "Native American"

Native American Indian Studies -
A Note on Names ©
by Peter d'Errico, Legal Studies Department, University of Massachusetts


Most of us know the story about how the Peoples of the "new world" came to be called "American Indians." Columbus (his name gives away his secret: Cristobal Colon; the Christian colonizer) thought he was going to India and, being a vain and self-important man, insisted he had found it. So he named the people he met "Indians." The "American" part would come later, after everyone but Columbus had admitted his error, and the land had been named for another Italian navigator, Amerigo Vespucci.

"American Indians" derives from the colonizers' world-view and is therefore not the real name of anyone. It is a name given to people by outsiders, not by themselves. Why should we use any name given to a people by someone other than themselves? 2

On the other hand, why shouldn't we use it? Almost everybody in the world knows the name and to whom it refers. It is commonly used by many Indigenous Peoples in the United States, even today. It is the legal definition of these Peoples in United States law.

Some people get upset about "American Indian" because of its association with Columbus. There is an equally serious dilemma with the use of "Native American," which came into vogue as part of a concern for "political correctness." The latter was an effort to acknowledge ethnic diversity in the United States while insisting on an over-arching American unity. Groups became identified as hyphen-American. Thus, African-American, Irish-American, Italian-American, and so on. For the original inhabitants of the land, the "correct" term became Native-American.

The word "native" has a generic meaning, referring to anyone or anything that is at home in its place of origin. "Native" also has a pejorative meaning in English colonization, as in "The natives are restless tonight." From an English perspective (and, after all, we are talking about English words), "native" carries the connotation of "primitive," which itself has both a generic definition, meaning "first" or "primary," and a pejorative use, meaning "backward" or "ignorant." And, as we have seen, "American" derives from that other Italian. So "Native American" does not avoid the problem of naming from an outsider's perspective.

Concern for political correctness focuses more on appearances than reality. As John Trudell observed at the time, "They change our name and treat us the same." Basic to the treatment is an insistence that the original inhabitants of the land are not permitted to name themselves. As an added twist, it seems that the only full, un-hyphenated Americans are those who make no claim of origin beyond the shores of this land. Many of these folk assert that they are in fact the real "native" Americans.

We have to discard both "American Indian" and "Native American" if we want to be faithful to reality and true to the principle that a People's name ought to come from themselves. The consequence of this is that the original inhabitants of this land are to be called by whatever names they give themselves. There are no American Indians or Native Americans. There are many different peoples, hundreds in fact, bearing such names as Wampanoag, Cherokee, Seminole, Navajo, Hopi, and so on and on through the field of names. These are the "real" names of the people.

But the conundrum of names doesn't end there. Some of the traditional or "real" names are not actually derived from the people themselves, but from their neighbors or even enemies. "Mohawk" is a Narraganset name, meaning "flesh eaters." "Sioux" is a French corruption of an Anishinabe word for "enemy." Similarly, "Apache" is a Spanish corruption of a Zuni word for "enemy," while Navajo is from the Spanish version of a Tewa word. If we want to be fully authentic in every instance, we will have to inquire into the language of each People to find the name they call themselves. It may not be surprising to find that the deepest real names are often a word for "people" or for the homeland or for some differentiating characteristic of the people as seen through their own eyes.

The important thing is to acknowledge the fundamental difference between how a People view themselves and how they are viewed by others, and to not get hung up on names for the sake of "political correctness."


The whole piece is longer and also interesting.
 
2012-09-30 03:45:16 PM  
As a Scandinavian-American, I am deeply offended:


3.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-30 03:46:28 PM  
Animal Farm in action. Along with the episode of South Park where the children had to pick a new mascot/name. They had to vote for Doosh Nozzle or Shiat Sandwich. Just like in real life.
 
2012-09-30 03:46:45 PM  
Every individual Born in the Western Hemisphere (South, Central, & North America) is a Native American.
Why would an Indian want to be PC named using a word (American) that the Europeans called the land that they stole from the Indians in the first place?
Don't even try the Columbus / West Indies excuse. It's proven a myth.
 
2012-09-30 03:47:40 PM  
Seminole is a corruption of cimarrón, a Spanish term for "runaway" or "wild one" - Wikipedia

A majority of Native American tribal names are derogatory names that the neighbors call them, I remember reading a poster at the Museum of the Rockies in Boseman that listed out about thirty or so.

Naming tribes usually went like this...
Q: "What's that group of people over there?"

"Those are the enemy" ... Apache
"They like to fight all the time" ... Comanche
"Those are the clumsy guys (there fingers are all cut up)" ... Cheyenne
"They live south of us" ... Chowanoc
"They live upstream of us" ... Karok
"Those guys are lazy" ... Iowa, Kickapoo, etc.
" ... old" ... Jicaque
" ... dirty" ... Machapunga, Pahoja, Siksika, etc.
" ... lechers" ... Otto
" ... cowards" ... Mohawk
"they live over there" ... Yuchi
"I've no idea" ... Yuki

Rarely do they ask the tribe themselves what they are called. Then you get other strange answers.
"Lenni Lenape - Genuine Men"
"Jatibonuco - Great People Of The Sacred High Waters"
"Hopi - Peaceful Ones Or Well-Mannered People"

http://www.firstpeople.us/glossary/Indian-Tribe-Meanings.html

The way I read this is that some people want to forget that they even existed at all.
 
2012-09-30 03:47:57 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Benevolent Misanthrope: Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.

That's a pretty big assumption though. Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended? That kid would be tortured relentlessly if he were to speak up and ask for the mascot to be changed, not only by the current students, but locals who have nothing else to do but stand up for their "Proud Redskin traditions."


/

Christ sake, give up already. And let go of your white guilt.
 
2012-09-30 03:48:17 PM  

Canton: "My kids all went through that school, and they're all doing just fine," she said. "I was taught to be proud to be a Redskin."

These are redskins:
[i48.tinypic.com image 640x425]

These are Native Americans:
[i46.tinypic.com image 768x618]
Link

I know, I know, it's confusing, but there you go.


I'm Canadian...

I'm just a goddamn INDIAN, thank you very much...
 
2012-09-30 03:48:31 PM  
upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-09-30 03:48:55 PM  
I would have no problems with it if we were named after one of the local tribes like the Makah, or after Chief Chetzemoka (we have a Chetzemoka Park).

The problem in my town is the term Redskin. It was historically used as a derogatory term. It's no different than using n*gger.

If I were to open a coffee shop around here, I'd call it ChetzaMocha.
 
2012-09-30 03:49:03 PM  
Tell me, please, how being born here in the past 100 years is not as "Native" as a birth 500 years ago?

There must be some dandy entitlements for those born 1,000 years ago, if so.

/miscreants have hijacked the "Native" train!
 
2012-09-30 03:50:23 PM  
A similar view:

American Indian vs. Native American: A note on terminology

BY KATHRYN WALBERT
Provided by The North Carolina Humanities Council.


Some American Indians prefer the term American Indian over Native American for specific reasons. Lakota activist Russell Means has noted that "the American Indian is the only ethnic group in the United States with the American before our ethnicity" and prefers to use that term because he knows its origins.6 Others argue that the term Native American is inaccurate because anyone who is born in the western hemisphere is native to the Americas and could be considered a native American. Still others believe that the term Native American serves only to assuage white guilt over the treatment of American Indians. As Christina Berry notes, "Native Americans did not suffer through countless trails of tears, disease, wars, and cultural annihilation - Indians did. The Native people today are Native Americans not Indians, therefore we do not need to feel guilty for the horrors of the past."7 In this view, the term American Indian is used because it is the term that has been used most consistently and because it makes the connection to the past treatment of people who have been called Indians in ways that make it difficult to gloss over the history of racism and discrimination in our country.
 
2012-09-30 03:51:38 PM  

Iron Felix: As a Scandinavian-American, I am deeply offended:

[3.bp.blogspot.com image 500x500]



As an Irish-American, I am deeply offended, and when I sober up, I'm kicking someone's ass over this.


www.collegebound.net



/ among the injured were . . .
 
2012-09-30 03:53:53 PM  

Inaditch: My suggestion is that we keep the red skin but move it to a specific part of the body. We'll be the Port Townsend Rednecks.


I find this offensive*

*summer months only.
 
2012-09-30 03:55:03 PM  
www.questfor31.com 

As a horse's ass i'm deeply offended.
 
2012-09-30 03:56:31 PM  

Benevolent Misanthrope: Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Benevolent Misanthrope: Assuming Japanese Americans, African Americans and Mexican Americans had no problem with tose terms, neither would I.

That's a pretty big assumption though. Even if you somehow managed to get an accurate poll of all the current students, what if somebody transfers in and is offended? That kid would be tortured relentlessly if he were to speak up and ask for the mascot to be changed, not only by the current students, but locals who have nothing else to do but stand up for their "Proud Redskin traditions."


I'm reminded of when the NCAA went through their "no Native American names, they're offensive" phase. I was working at Florida State. The NCAA sent FSU notice that they could no longer be the Seminoles and that it was disrespectful to Native Americans, commitment to diversity, sensitivity to cultural differences, yadda yadda yadda. They meant well, I'm sure.

The Seminole Tribe came to a meeting on campus, in costume, shook hands with the University dignitaries, and gave a very nice speech telling the NCAA to bugger off and mind their own farking business. Indians can say for themselves what's offensive to them. They don't need a bunch of rich white guys to patronize them and tell them what they like or don't.

That's the kind of thing I mean.


Central Michigan has a similar deal with the Saginaw Band of Chippewas. Illinois had to get rid of Chief Illiniwek because there aren't any Illinois (of that name) to consent, but can still call themselves the Fighting Illini. North Dakota got some Sioux tribes to consent to its use of Fighting Sioux, but because others objected, the NCAA and the conference twisted arms until UND dropped its use at the end of the last school year.

Nothing like a clear and consistently enforced policy, is there?
 
2012-09-30 03:57:00 PM  

bojon: Benevolent Misanthrope:

Was that the NCAA that is headquartered in Indianapolis, Indiana?


And the same NCAA that took millions in advertising from Pontiac and Jeep Cherokee?
 
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