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(Americans for Tax Reform)   Here are the first five Obamacare taxes that will hit starting January 1 2013. This won't hurt a bit   (atr.org) divider line 198
    More: Obvious, obamacare, excise taxes, AEI, flexible spending accounts, income taxes, medical device, Fox Business Network, surtax  
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5602 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Sep 2012 at 3:26 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-29 09:25:33 AM  
Grover, fark you and the horse you rode in on. Want nice things like adequate health care? They have to be paid for. Not by borrowing and running up more debt like the previous administration. Taxes are necessary, despite your retarded thinking.
And considering your no tax pledge was devised when you were 12, retarded is the appropriate term.
 
2012-09-29 09:40:16 AM  

Lurking Fear: Grover, fark you and the horse you rode in on. Want nice things like adequate health care? They have to be paid for. Not by borrowing and running up more debt like the previous administration. Taxes are necessary, despite your retarded thinking.
And considering your no tax pledge was devised when you were 12, retarded is the appropriate term.


Special Needs. Subby is Special Needs.
 
2012-09-29 09:41:44 AM  

Lurking Fear: Want nice things like adequate health care?


I seriously doubt Grover cares at all about health care for someone else.
 
2012-09-29 10:13:29 AM  
They have to get your money to send to Egypt somehow.
 
2012-09-29 10:13:52 AM  
Supporters during the passage debate: This is going to save you money!

Supporters after (to borrow a phrase) finding out what's in it after it's passed: It's going to cost you but it's for your own good!
 
2012-09-29 10:16:53 AM  

Lurking Fear: Grover, fark you and the horse you rode in on. Want nice things like adequate health care? They have to be paid for. Not by borrowing and running up more debt like the previous administration. Taxes are necessary, despite your retarded thinking.
And considering your no tax pledge was devised when you were 12, retarded is the appropriate term.


You know, you think it is about better health care, but then why are they increasing the taxes on medical device manufacturers in particular?
 
2012-09-29 10:20:35 AM  

IronTom: They have to get your money to send to Egypt somehow.


Of course. No money was ever sent to Egypt before January 2009.
 
2012-09-29 10:29:53 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Supporters during the passage debate: This is going to save you money!

Supporters after (to borrow a phrase) finding out what's in it after it's passed: It's going to cost you but it's for your own good!


Supporters during the debate: This is going to save you money!

Supporters after the debate: This is going to save you money, but it's going to be paid through increasing payroll taxes 9% for households making over $250,000 and increasing capital gains taxes 8.8% for households making over $250,000. The other "taxes" aren't so much taxes as methods to bring costs under control.

In other words, 81% of the "taxes" are tax hikes on the wealthy, and the remaining 19% is primarily deduction and FSA adjustments to control costs and an excise tax on medical device manufacturers, again to control costs.
 
2012-09-29 10:31:53 AM  

IronTom: You know, you think it is about better health care, but then why are they increasing the taxes on medical device manufacturers in particular?


Because expanding health care to include 30 million more American will drive business to medical device manufacturers, and that coverage will get paid for in part through the tax. They benefit, they pay.
 
2012-09-29 10:32:37 AM  

Bloody William: Supporters after the debate: This is going to save you money, but it's going to be paid through increasing payroll taxes 9% for households making over $250,000 and increasing capital gains taxes 8.8% for households making over $250,000. The other "taxes" aren't so much taxes as methods to bring costs under control.

In other words, 81% of the "taxes" are tax hikes on the wealthy, and the remaining 19% is primarily deduction and FSA adjustments to control costs and an excise tax on medical device manufacturers, again to control costs.



Click your heels three times and keep telling yourself this over and over and maybe it will come true!
 
2012-09-29 10:33:48 AM  
I kind of like having my existing conditions covered and the lifetime benefit cap removed and keeping my college age kids on my plan, but then that's just me.

Grover Norquist can go piss up a rope.
 
2012-09-29 10:34:18 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Bloody William: Supporters after the debate: This is going to save you money, but it's going to be paid through increasing payroll taxes 9% for households making over $250,000 and increasing capital gains taxes 8.8% for households making over $250,000. The other "taxes" aren't so much taxes as methods to bring costs under control.

In other words, 81% of the "taxes" are tax hikes on the wealthy, and the remaining 19% is primarily deduction and FSA adjustments to control costs and an excise tax on medical device manufacturers, again to control costs.


Click your heels three times and keep telling yourself this over and over and maybe it will come true!


So... you got nothin'. Again.

I'll explain again: 81% of the taxes THAT TFA EXPLICITLY DESCRIBED (I'm not even parsing their math, I'm using their numbers) will be applied on households making over $250,000 per year. Forgive me if I don't shed a tear, but it's good to know where your priorities are.
 
2012-09-29 10:34:54 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: I kind of like having my existing conditions covered and the lifetime benefit cap removed and keeping my college age kids on my plan, but then that's just me.

Grover Norquist can go piss up a rope.


But TAXES! The worst things ever! Especially if they happen to the JOB CREATORS!
 
2012-09-29 10:45:10 AM  
thinkprogress.org
 
2012-09-29 10:51:42 AM  

Lurking Fear: Not by borrowing and running up more debt like the previous administration.



Or the present administration too!
 
2012-09-29 10:57:07 AM  

Dusk-You-n-Me: [thinkprogress.org image 600x960]


Doesn't matter. Taxes are involved, and taxes are the worst things ever.
 
2012-09-29 11:00:46 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Click your heels three times and keep telling yourself this over and over and maybe it will come true!


He provided facts, you quoted the Wizard of Oz.
 
2012-09-29 11:05:07 AM  

vartian: Dancin_In_Anson: Click your heels three times and keep telling yourself this over and over and maybe it will come true!

He provided facts, you quoted the Wizard of Oz.


DiA is only really coherent when it comes to redheads.
 
2012-09-29 11:21:31 AM  
FTFA:"The Medicare payroll tax is currently 2.9 percent on all wages and self-employment profits. Under this tax hike, wages and profits exceeding $200,000 ($250,000 in the case of married couples) will face a 3.8 percent rate instead."

Boo farking hoo. The money you make over 200k will get taxed .9 percent more. That's right POINT NINE percent. That's not even a penny on a dollar. How will you crybabies ever survive?
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-29 11:25:32 AM  
<b><a href="http://www.fark.com/comments/7354887/79694606#c79694606" target="_blank">Dancin_In_Anson</a>:</b> <i>Supporters during the passage debate: This is going to save you money!

Supporters after (to borrow a phrase) finding out what's in it after it's passed: It's going to cost you but it's for your own good!</i>

It is going to save money, it isn't going to be free. I can understand that Republicans might not understand that given 30 years of voodoo economics where you get something for nothing.
 
2012-09-29 11:27:00 AM  

TwistedIvory: DiA is only really coherent when it comes to redheads.


He's also quite clever on barbeque and dogs.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-29 11:38:39 AM  
The funny thing is that when you look at all these supposedly failed socialist countries with universal health care, they have better medical care than we do and they pay less for it than we pay now.

Link
 
2012-09-29 11:42:22 AM  

vartian: He provided facts


He provided government projection. Would you like another example of government projection vs reality? And that is just one example. What is it that makes you think that this time it will be different?
 
2012-09-29 11:46:40 AM  

Dancin_In_Anson: vartian: He provided facts

He provided government projection. Would you like another example of government projection vs reality? And that is just one example. What is it that makes you think that this time it will be different?


81% of the taxes is on wealthy households. The other 19% is indirect "taxation" through adjusting deductions and FSA caps, and a tax on an industry that will benefit greatly from the business driven by the result of the bill.

What. Did. I. Get. Wrong?

I didn't even dispute the quantifiable claims in TFA. I didn't have to, because even that said exactly what I just said. 81% of the taxes, or the only actual taxes that apply to households and individuals, go to households making over $250,000 or individuals making over $200,000.

You have nothing. Again.
 
2012-09-29 11:55:41 AM  

Bloody William: Dancin_In_Anson: vartian: He provided facts

He provided government projection. Would you like another example of government projection vs reality? And that is just one example. What is it that makes you think that this time it will be different?

81% of the taxes is on wealthy households. The other 19% is indirect "taxation" through adjusting deductions and FSA caps, and a tax on an industry that will benefit greatly from the business driven by the result of the bill.

What. Did. I. Get. Wrong?

I didn't even dispute the quantifiable claims in TFA. I didn't have to, because even that said exactly what I just said. 81% of the taxes, or the only actual taxes that apply to households and individuals, go to households making over $250,000 or individuals making over $200,000.

You have nothing. Again.


So why exactly are you trying? You know he won't answer direct questions. You know he'll ignore any fact you put before him. You know he'll ignore every point you make in favor of beating up his own mythical straw man. He's a brain dead troll, and everyone except the other GOP trolls knows it. There is not a single thing you can say or prove that he will acknowledge. You have a better chance of getting a North Korean diplomat to defect than you do getting DIA to acknowledge a basic fact.

Please stop trying, because when people like you do, it only allows him to derail a thread into nonsense land.
 
2012-09-29 12:01:09 PM  

GAT_00: Bloody William: Dancin_In_Anson: vartian: He provided facts

He provided government projection. Would you like another example of government projection vs reality? And that is just one example. What is it that makes you think that this time it will be different?

81% of the taxes is on wealthy households. The other 19% is indirect "taxation" through adjusting deductions and FSA caps, and a tax on an industry that will benefit greatly from the business driven by the result of the bill.

What. Did. I. Get. Wrong?

I didn't even dispute the quantifiable claims in TFA. I didn't have to, because even that said exactly what I just said. 81% of the taxes, or the only actual taxes that apply to households and individuals, go to households making over $250,000 or individuals making over $200,000.

You have nothing. Again.

So why exactly are you trying? You know he won't answer direct questions. You know he'll ignore any fact you put before him. You know he'll ignore every point you make in favor of beating up his own mythical straw man. He's a brain dead troll, and everyone except the other GOP trolls knows it. There is not a single thing you can say or prove that he will acknowledge. You have a better chance of getting a North Korean diplomat to defect than you do getting DIA to acknowledge a basic fact.

Please stop trying, because when people like you do, it only allows him to derail a thread into nonsense land.


So: redheads, barbecue, dogs & trolling.
 
2012-09-29 12:08:36 PM  

Bloody William: 81% of the taxes is on wealthy households. The other 19% is indirect "taxation" through adjusting deductions and FSA caps, and a tax on an industry that will benefit greatly from the business driven by the result of the bill.

What. Did. I. Get. Wrong?



Nothing. You have the projections down cold. However, my bet is that when it all starts to function, your projections won't be quite so accurate. I say this based on the history of what the US government says when selling you a program and what you wind up getting when the in dries.
 
2012-09-29 12:13:41 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Bloody William: 81% of the taxes is on wealthy households. The other 19% is indirect "taxation" through adjusting deductions and FSA caps, and a tax on an industry that will benefit greatly from the business driven by the result of the bill.

What. Did. I. Get. Wrong?


Nothing. You have the projections down cold. However, my bet is that when it all starts to function, your projections won't be quite so accurate. I say this based on the history of what the US government says when selling you a program and what you wind up getting when the in dries.


So, you're just grumpy this morning?
 
2012-09-29 12:16:41 PM  

IronTom: Lurking Fear: Grover, fark you and the horse you rode in on. Want nice things like adequate health care? They have to be paid for. Not by borrowing and running up more debt like the previous administration. Taxes are necessary, despite your retarded thinking.
And considering your no tax pledge was devised when you were 12, retarded is the appropriate term.

You know, you think it is about better health care, but then why are they increasing the taxes on medical device manufacturers in particular?


I can tell you why. The medical device pricing regulations created some perverse incentives that the tax is countering.

Any other questions?
 
2012-09-29 12:18:36 PM  

MorrisBird: So, you're just grumpy this morning


I learned it from YOU ok? ;)
 
2012-09-29 12:20:04 PM  
Grover Norquist's website?

I decided to click on it anyway to see what was up.

I saw all I needed to when farking Ted Nugent popped up on the screen with some stupid quote about how farking awesome Grover is.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be in the same species as Republicans who buy into this Norquist bullshiat.
 
2012-09-29 12:28:23 PM  

AdolfOliverPanties: Grover Norquist's website?

I decided to click on it anyway to see what was up.

I saw all I needed to when farking Ted Nugent popped up on the screen with some stupid quote about how farking awesome Grover is.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be in the same species as Republicans who buy into this Norquist bullshiat.


I have a feeling that the first time a Republican tells Norquist to shove his pledge up his ass and gets re-elected anyway, Grover's done.

But they're all too shiat-scared of him to try it.
 
2012-09-29 12:32:34 PM  

jake_lex: AdolfOliverPanties: Grover Norquist's website?

I decided to click on it anyway to see what was up.

I saw all I needed to when farking Ted Nugent popped up on the screen with some stupid quote about how farking awesome Grover is.

Sometimes I am ashamed to be in the same species as Republicans who buy into this Norquist bullshiat.

I have a feeling that the first time a Republican tells Norquist to shove his pledge up his ass and gets re-elected anyway, Grover's done.

But they're all too shiat-scared of him to try it.


The elder Bush already said, quote: "Who the hell is Grover Norquist, anyway?"
 
2012-09-29 12:39:29 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Bloody William: 81% of the taxes is on wealthy households. The other 19% is indirect "taxation" through adjusting deductions and FSA caps, and a tax on an industry that will benefit greatly from the business driven by the result of the bill.

What. Did. I. Get. Wrong?


Nothing. You have the projections down cold. However, my bet is that when it all starts to function, your projections won't be quite so accurate. I say this based on the history of what the US government says when selling you a program and what you wind up getting when the in dries.


Exactly how could this be wrong?
 
2012-09-29 12:47:59 PM  
"If Arianna Huffington doesn't like us, then we must be doing something right."

This is a brilliant philosophy. I can see why so many people listen to this guy.
 
2012-09-29 01:13:38 PM  
You all can argue about it. I'm OK with it all concerning the Affordable Care Act.

I make a good income. I'm out of debt except for the house mortgage. I really don't mind paying more in taxes because some of my fellow Americans aren't as fortunate as I am in some ways.

To quote an often used phrase by the right-wing, some don't have any kids serving on active duty and/or often don't understand its full meaning: Freedom isn't free.
 
2012-09-29 01:14:05 PM  
That all sounds pretty reasonable, actually.

This isn't the farking 19th Century. Health care is infinitely more complex and unimaginably more expensive than it was even 50 years ago. Our society is going to have to adapt to that. We're the last of the developed democracies to do so. We're not even leading from behind in this area; we're just way the fark behind and barely even able to follow along with the more developed systems out there.
 
2012-09-29 01:23:45 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Nothing. You have the projections down cold. However, my bet is that when it all starts to function, your projections won't be quite so accurate. I say this based on the history of what the US government says when selling you a program and what you wind up getting when the in dries.


So, rather than trust the calculations of trained actuaries and statisticians on cost analysis, I should trust some guy on the internet because he said so.
 
2012-09-29 01:37:04 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Dancin_In_Anson: Bloody William: 81% of the taxes is on wealthy households. The other 19% is indirect "taxation" through adjusting deductions and FSA caps, and a tax on an industry that will benefit greatly from the business driven by the result of the bill.

What. Did. I. Get. Wrong?


Nothing. You have the projections down cold. However, my bet is that when it all starts to function, your projections won't be quite so accurate. I say this based on the history of what the US government says when selling you a program and what you wind up getting when the in dries.

Exactly how could this be wrong?


Moreover... what of this is wrong? These are the projections presented by America's Economic Tumor, Grover Norquist. If anything, the projections slant far, far toward his point, and they still aren't horrible. They're not my projections, they're projections presented by the Americans For All Taxes Are Bad.
 
2012-09-29 01:38:21 PM  

RexTalionis: So, rather than trust the calculations of trained actuaries and statisticians on cost analysis, I should trust some guy on the internet because he said so.


Not even trained actuaries and statisticians. Think tank douchebags whose entire premise is to make the projections look as bad as possible.
 
2012-09-29 01:40:18 PM  

GAT_00: Please stop trying, because when people like you do, it only allows him to derail a thread into nonsense land.


I would if the discussion seemed off-track, but it's only letting me reinforce the fact that even the most potentially skewed projections admit that 81% of the taxes are directed at wealthy households and the others are regulatory adjustments. It's just letting me repeat the point.
 
2012-09-29 01:46:50 PM  

RexTalionis: Dancin_In_Anson: Nothing. You have the projections down cold. However, my bet is that when it all starts to function, your projections won't be quite so accurate. I say this based on the history of what the US government says when selling you a program and what you wind up getting when the in dries.

So, rather than trust the calculations of trained actuaries and statisticians on cost analysis, I should trust some guy on the internet because he said so.


Yeah, but he's betting on it.

So there.
 
2012-09-29 01:55:21 PM  
I agree with everyone who showed up in troll grey on my screen. Seriously. And that is why I'm in favor of single-payer.
 
2012-09-29 01:59:52 PM  
It seems that the Teabaggers are too busy whining to notice that those taxes DON'T AFFECT MOST AMERICANS.

Stupid Teabaggers.
 
2012-09-29 02:16:15 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-29 02:31:37 PM  

RexTalionis: So, rather than trust the calculations of trained actuaries and statisticians on cost analysis,


It's like 1964 Medicare projections all over again. But they got it right this time, right?
 
2012-09-29 02:33:00 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: RexTalionis: So, rather than trust the calculations of trained actuaries and statisticians on cost analysis,

It's like 1964 Medicare projections all over again. But they got it right this time, right?


Once again, the "they" in this case is Americans for Tax Reform. The people who hate this plan and who want to see it stopped. Those are the projections you're disagreeing with.

You. Have. Nothing.
 
2012-09-29 02:35:35 PM  

Bloody William: Dancin_In_Anson: RexTalionis: So, rather than trust the calculations of trained actuaries and statisticians on cost analysis,

It's like 1964 Medicare projections all over again. But they got it right this time, right?

Once again, the "they" in this case is Americans for Tax Reform. The people who hate this plan and who want to see it stopped. Those are the projections you're disagreeing with.

You. Have. Nothing.


Haha, I didn't even know that. He thinks he's arguing against the CBO projections? Awesome, awesome stuff.
 
2012-09-29 02:37:15 PM  

cameroncrazy1984: Bloody William: Dancin_In_Anson: RexTalionis: So, rather than trust the calculations of trained actuaries and statisticians on cost analysis,

It's like 1964 Medicare projections all over again. But they got it right this time, right?

Once again, the "they" in this case is Americans for Tax Reform. The people who hate this plan and who want to see it stopped. Those are the projections you're disagreeing with.

You. Have. Nothing.

Haha, I didn't even know that. He thinks he's arguing against the CBO projections? Awesome, awesome stuff.


Everything I've said has just been summarizing and explaining what Norquist's own group said in TFA. I'm not quoting the CBO or looking for any information outside of America's Economic Tumor. I'm just explaining what it says. And saying that it really doesn't sound bad.
 
2012-09-29 02:49:02 PM  

Dancin_In_Anson: Supporters during the passage debate: This is going to save you money!

Supporters after (to borrow a phrase) finding out what's in it after it's passed: It's going to cost you but it's for your own good!


I'm a supporter, and I'm not saying this at all. I certainly am not quoting a right wing blog for my facts either.

Stop straw manning legitimate arguments for reform, the present system sucks, something had to happen.
 
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