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(AOL)   Next time someone tells you that governmental regulation of corporations isn't needed, show them this article. Of course the right will argue that the market would have self corrected after all their customers were dead   ( autos.aol.com) divider line
    More: Sad, PT Cruiser, Enterprise Holdings, lame duck, David Strickland, car rentals  
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13803 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Sep 2012 at 9:53 AM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-29 02:09:11 PM  

Amos Quito: red5ish: Enterprise rent a car kills two through negligence. $15 million paid to parents of dead girls. Nobody goes to jail.
Corporations are NOT people.


That's right.

They're GODS.


At least to you they are.
 
2012-09-29 02:10:05 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Amos Quito: /You didn't REALLY think your government was controlling corporate America, did you?

No, I just don't worship the notion of corporate enterprise getting away with burning people alive.



I'm sure they're bummed that their burning-alive privileges are being restricted.

What will they do for entertainment now?
 
2012-09-29 02:10:09 PM  

MyRandomName: Smackledorfer: This.
Maybe one day republicans will self correct (through honesty and education of their constituents?) and cease projecting extremism onto the other side.

Projecting extremism to the other side? You mean like the farking subtard who stated the other side wants zero regulations?

Do you actually take your arguments seriously?


Deregulation means....removing regulations. You know that, right?
 
2012-09-29 02:11:34 PM  

Amos Quito: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Amos Quito: MOAR LAWS!

"You might as well throw the Constitution on top of that flaming wreck with two innocent girls burning to death inside! We can't havelaws to protect the lives of citizens! What kind of mad-cap world are you trying to create here?!?"


The government is not protecting anyone in this case.

RTFA

There is no law currently, and there would BE no law if the car rental giants hadn't AGREED TO SUPPORT legislation.

FTA: "Consumer pressure "made us reconsider our position," said Laura Bryant, communications director for Enterprise. "We thought federal regulation and oversight was not needed ... The consumers told us they would be more comfortable with greater oversight."


Schumer and Boxer did NOTHING but whine and grovel to the rental agencies for two years - without success. Finally PUBLIC OPINION convinced the rental companies to back legislation that would regulate them.

Effectively, the rental giants are policing themselves, with a rubber-stamp from government to make it look official, and make the consumers feel better.

And Schumer and Boxer come off acting like heroes, while the befuddled run around thinking that the Lefties have won a "victory" over the capitalist pigs.

L
O
L



/You didn't REALLY think your government was controlling corporate America, did you?


It's hillarious you're taking what the PR hack at a company says at face value. Did you expect him to say otherwise? LOL!
 
2012-09-29 02:12:15 PM  
img.superpages.com

I wonder what their take on it is ...
 
2012-09-29 02:12:22 PM  

Fart_Machine: Amos Quito: red5ish: Enterprise rent a car kills two through negligence. $15 million paid to parents of dead girls. Nobody goes to jail.
Corporations are NOT people.


That's right.

They're GODS.

At least to you they are.



And you're a poopy pants!
 
2012-09-29 02:12:48 PM  

Whiskey Pete: cabbyman: So did the hose actually leak and cause the accident?

According to the article the steering wheel ran out of fluid.


I think you win this thread. It's a good thing this becomes law before a faulty pinstripe creates a loss of power and causes an accident.
 
2012-09-29 02:14:48 PM  

Fart_Machine: It's hillarious you're taking what the PR hack at a company says at face value.


I'm noticing a lot of that going around in this thread. Apparently a libertarian will believe you under any circumstances, as long as you say something Ayn Rand would agree with (before she became strung-out on pills and lived on welfare). Even the PR person for a corporation gets a pass.
 
2012-09-29 02:14:50 PM  

sugardave: MyRandomName: Smackledorfer: This.
Maybe one day republicans will self correct (through honesty and education of their constituents?) and cease projecting extremism onto the other side.

Projecting extremism to the other side? You mean like the farking subtard who stated the other side wants zero regulations?

Do you actually take your arguments seriously?

Deregulation means....removing regulations. You know that, right?


Oh snap jpeg
 
2012-09-29 02:17:21 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: Whiskey Pete: cabbyman: So did the hose actually leak and cause the accident?

According to the article the steering wheel ran out of fluid.

I think you win this thread. It's a good thing this becomes law before a faulty pinstripe creates a loss of power and causes an accident.


I live with my mom nobody is this stupid, even in sarcasm
 
2012-09-29 02:17:24 PM  
I'm just laughing because "tenpoundsofcrap" is suddenly upset people are taking extreme positions and using straw man arguments.

Guess he takes his gimmick seriously and doesn't like to see other people try and steal it from him.....
 
2012-09-29 02:20:34 PM  

Amos Quito: FTA: "Consumer pressure "made us reconsider our position," said Laura Bryant, communications director for Enterprise. "We thought federal regulation and oversight was not needed ... The consumers told us they would be more comfortable with greater oversight."


I don't understand. Why do the companies fight against oversight and laws, if, as you say, the laws do nothing now, will do nothing in the future, and the companies will police themselves anyway? If the laws mean nothing to the company, then why wouldn't the companies just agree to begin with and not fight them? Why would they spend money to fight the law and lobby legislators? The answer is: they wouldn't. They fought the law for two years because they know the law will force them to put lives over money. Now, they've lost.

In any event, this is a win. If you believe the rental companies would voluntarily continue to not rent recalled vehicles absent the legislation as soon as the consumers got distracted, you are a fool. The legislation forces all rental companies going forward to compete on an equal basis, everyone is equally forbidden to rent out recalled vehicles. This is a win. That it took two years is an indication about how much the companies want to rent out recalled vehicles.
 
2012-09-29 02:20:52 PM  

LouDobbsAwaaaay: Fart_Machine: It's hillarious you're taking what the PR hack at a company says at face value.

I'm noticing a lot of that going around in this thread. Apparently a libertarian will believe you under any circumstances, as long as you say something Ayn Rand would agree with (before she became strung-out on pills and lived on welfare). Even the PR person for a corporation gets a pass.



What you're not getting is that they have been trying like hell to get this law passed for years with no luck, and the only reason it has a chance of passing now is because the rental industry has agreed to go along.

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/safety-advocates-rental-car-recalls-regu l ated/story?id=15754301#.UGcu11GQlMQ

If they had not gone along, they would have lobbied the whores you call congress to prevent the legislation, and they would have succeeded.

Money controls the controllers.
 
2012-09-29 02:22:41 PM  

grimlock1972: it sad we even need a law to get the rental car companies to do this,


Corporations will engage in dangerous practices as long as a cost benefit analysis shows that the dangerous practices are profitable. The lack of personal responsibility inherent in this arrangement leads to immoral and dangerous practices being deemed acceptable. When profit is the only motive, and is in fact the imperative by law, there must be regulation to protect consumers and citizens from corporate activity. Saying that the market will 'self-correct' does nothing to alleviate the damage that is done in the mean time. Without regulation there is no limit to the perfidity of free market capitalists.
 
2012-09-29 02:24:18 PM  

Krymson Tyde: FTA: It's taken two years for Sen. Barbara Boxer and Sen. Chuck Schumer to get the majority of the rental car industry on board.

Can someone more learned in the ways of government than I explain why there is a need to get companies "on board" before they can pass common sence legislation?


Because they can't get anything past the House or the Senate filibuster.

Hell, those GOP assholes wouldn't pass legislation that was paid for to help veterans get jobs. You think they'd vote for something like this?
 
2012-09-29 02:29:29 PM  
I'm one of those evil "free market" types, and I have zero problem with regulations like this.
 
2012-09-29 02:31:35 PM  

Amos Quito: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Fart_Machine: It's hillarious you're taking what the PR hack at a company says at face value.

I'm noticing a lot of that going around in this thread. Apparently a libertarian will believe you under any circumstances, as long as you say something Ayn Rand would agree with (before she became strung-out on pills and lived on welfare). Even the PR person for a corporation gets a pass.


What you're not getting is that they have been trying like hell to get this law passed for years with no luck, and the only reason it has a chance of passing now is because the rental industry has agreed to go along.

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/safety-advocates-rental-car-recalls-regu l ated/story?id=15754301#.UGcu11GQlMQ

If they had not gone along, they would have lobbied the whores you call congress to prevent the legislation, and they would have succeeded.

Money controls the controllers.


And, if the consumers stop paying attention, they will pay the legislators to get the law repealed. That is why you must have in place people who are willing to fight two years to get the law passed, and who will remain in office to make sure the law is not repealed when no one is looking. That is why you cannot elect people who's first instinct is always, "Deregulate, let the market decide!" That is why you need Democrats, because, even though they suck, the suck much less than the alternative.
 
2012-09-29 02:32:59 PM  

Amos Quito: And Schumer and Boxer come off acting like heroes, while the befuddled run around thinking that the Lefties have won a "victory" over the capitalist pigs.


In what world do you live that you think Schumer and Boxer could have put something through Congress with the GOP cockblocking everything? They used the tools they could.
 
2012-09-29 02:34:14 PM  

Amos Quito: LouDobbsAwaaaay: Fart_Machine: It's hillarious you're taking what the PR hack at a company says at face value.

I'm noticing a lot of that going around in this thread. Apparently a libertarian will believe you under any circumstances, as long as you say something Ayn Rand would agree with (before she became strung-out on pills and lived on welfare). Even the PR person for a corporation gets a pass.


What you're not getting is that they have been trying like hell to get this law passed for years with no luck, and the only reason it has a chance of passing now is because the rental industry has agreed to go along.

http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/safety-advocates-rental-car-recalls-regu l ated/story?id=15754301#.UGcu11GQlMQ

If they had not gone along, they would have lobbied the whores you call congress to prevent the legislation, and they would have succeeded.

Money controls the controllers.


They agreed to go along with it because a major player got biatch slapped by the courts after five years of fighting it.
 
2012-09-29 02:43:33 PM  
Deregulation knobgobblers: ASSEMBLE HERE

/oh. i see that the party has already started.
 
2012-09-29 02:52:16 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Just as much as the left believes the right wants to get rid of all regulations.


www.focusonlinecommunities.com

Find me a comparable figure in left-wing American politics offering the opposite but similarly absolutist philosophy--that government is the only solution to all our problems.

And if you find yourself itching to pull an Obama picture, then you've just proved my point.
 
2012-09-29 03:01:33 PM  

herrDrFarkenstein: antidisestablishmentarianism: Whiskey Pete: cabbyman: So did the hose actually leak and cause the accident?

According to the article the steering wheel ran out of fluid.

I think you win this thread. It's a good thing this becomes law before a faulty pinstripe creates a loss of power and causes an accident.

I live with my mom nobody is this stupid, even in sarcasm


You won't be laughing when someone fails to signal a lane change because the blinker fluid was faulty in their rental car.
 
2012-09-29 03:03:44 PM  

RyogaM: Also, if you think lawsuits are the way we should regulate the behavior of businesses, yet you also support laws limiting the amount juries can award in lawsuits, you are an asshat.


At least some libertarians in theory pay lip service to the idea of putting the people running companies up on the chopping block when they knowingly guide their companies towards these things. I don't know why they imagine it would ever happen once they trimmed back government oversight and consumer advocacy, but I suppose it's something.
 
2012-09-29 03:08:56 PM  

Invisible Pedestrian: spongeboob: FuturePastNow: Not having a recalled car repaired was a dick move by the rental company.

However... she lost control of the car because the power steering failed? Someone should have gotten that chick a gym membership.

The car caught fire asshat.
The defect caused the car to catch fire and crash head-on into a tractor-trailer, killing both sisters.

That the fire was from a power steering hose leak seems to have little to do with it.

The thing is, at speed power steering doesn't do a hell of a whole lot. When you really need power steering is during low speed turns, you won't even notice it missing at highway speeds.

I've seen no evidence that the physical steering (minus the power assist) actually failed on the car. Maybe it filled with smoke and the driver crashed trying to pull over or simply freaked.

If this law were in place before this happened, would the outcome for Enterprise have been any different? This is more along the lines of a smart corporate policy to follow. The only thing the law adds is the ability for someone who is aware of a rental company renting out recalled cars to blow the whistle.

/have owned cars with manual steering


Ladies and Gentlemen, I present to you the Dunning-Kruger effect.

Here is a man who doesn't know the mechanics about which he speaks and, going solely off of the article's technical information, is willing to make a diagnosis contrary to that of the experts involved and even the company itself who admitted fault after five years of legal fighting.
 
2012-09-29 03:12:05 PM  

Amos Quito: MOAR LAWS!


Another well thought out entry by Amos into a thread. So eloquent.
 
2012-09-29 03:14:14 PM  

antidisestablishmentarianism: Whiskey Pete: cabbyman: So did the hose actually leak and cause the accident?

According to the article the steering wheel ran out of fluid.

I think you win this thread. It's a good thing this becomes law before a faulty pinstripe creates a loss of power and causes an accident.


Don't get me started on faulty decals.
 
2012-09-29 03:15:22 PM  

Smackledorfer: going solely off of the article's technical information,


Which referred to the problem as " a hose that carried steering fluid. The fluid could leak, leaving drivers unable to control their cars". Who knew that the PT Cruiser had a totally hydraulic steering system?
.
 
2012-09-29 03:19:45 PM  

Whiskey Pete: antidisestablishmentarianism: Whiskey Pete: cabbyman: So did the hose actually leak and cause the accident?

According to the article the steering wheel ran out of fluid.

I think you win this thread. It's a good thing this becomes law before a faulty pinstripe creates a loss of power and causes an accident.

Don't get me started on faulty decals.


Yep. These cost the lives of thousands of innocent motorists each year.

i1.cpcache.com

 
2012-09-29 03:23:36 PM  

Smackledorfer: Here is a man who doesn't know the mechanics about which he speaks and, going solely off of the article's technical information, is willing to make a diagnosis contrary to that of the experts involved and even the company itself who admitted fault after five years of legal fighting.


I wasn't going to bother with this but it needs to be pointed out that if the power steering just ran out of fluid and the girl was presumably traveling at highway speed she would have not gone left-of-center and smacked into a semi. She would have never even noticed that the power steering had failed until she was at parking speed. Something really bad happened that flucked up her control of the car.
 
2012-09-29 03:24:04 PM  
My heart is warmed today by the thought of those noble, public-spirited rental car companies voluntarily sacrificing a sliver of their shareholders' profits so that their loyal customers won't be as likely to arrive at their destinations DEAD.
 
2012-09-29 03:28:52 PM  

cabbyman: sprawl15: cabbyman: sprawl15: cabbyman: I'm not one who thinks wanton government regulation just for the sake of regulation is good.

I don't think that we should consider potentially lethal shenanigans nobody's business until after people are dying.

Well I'm sure that sentiment can't possibly lead anywhere bad, can it?

Nope.

OK so lets start the list of potentially lethal activities that the government should outlaw in order to protect us:

Bungee jumping
Skydiving
rock climbing
hot air balloning
football
driving

Any others?


There's no need to outlaw any of them. What's needed is proper regulations so that when you, a consumer, choose to partake in those activities, you have some sense or reasonable regulations protecting you from frayed bungee cords, or cords that at far too long for the drop; or that the sky diving assistant is certified in knowing how to pack a parachute and how to properly harness it onto the body. Similarly, when you play football, you have some reasonable assumptions that the helmets are truthfully well crafted to actually protect the head to the degree it could (i.e., it shouldn't shatter upon first contact with another helmet).

We as citizens of a country can accept a level of risk. We can say, "yes, I like to drive from point A to point B on government engineered and paved roads, and I am willing to accept certain risks to do so." But we would expect that if such dangers don't manifest themselves, we shouldn't expect to die because the car was ill-designed to make the trip.
 
2012-09-29 03:30:02 PM  

Huck And Molly Ziegler: My heart is warmed today by the thought of those noble, public-spirited rental car companies voluntarily sacrificing a sliver of their shareholders' profits so that their loyal customers won't be as likely to arrive at their destinations DEAD.


ENTERPRISE "You probably won't die!"™
 
2012-09-29 03:32:38 PM  
Don't forget that deregulation is paired with tort reform in most cases, thus allowing corporations to kill you and get away with it scott free.
 
2012-09-29 03:33:40 PM  
Read article:

Lives in Santa Cruz


Has a Sad.........
 
2012-09-29 04:03:34 PM  

KidneyStone: And a bolt fell out of a tie rod and a front wheel snapped to one side and happily skidded down the road while he was driving down I-95.


I saw a late model Honda just like that along I-79 a few years ago, sheared the ball joint stid right off.
 
2012-09-29 04:15:28 PM  

MFAWG:
Know how I know you don't know much about rack and pinion steering?



What does the methodology have to do with it? No fluid means you lose assist, but you can still steer.

However (I am unfamiliar with the recall, just going off of the keywords "PT Cruiser" and "Power steering hose" and "fire"), when the hose rubs/burns through on the catalyst and the pump instantly turns a quart or so of thin oil into a large quantity of smoke and (apparently) fire, probably obscuring the driver's vision if not actually entering the cabin, and definitely causing a Grade-A freakout for someone not expecting it... that, I can fully believe, could result in a collision.

/drives a car with a depowered rack and pinion steering. No fluid, no problem
 
2012-09-29 04:53:30 PM  

Snapper Carr: Anyone who argues that the market self-corrects is forgetting one very important factor.

In order for that to happen, you need an informed consumer base and such a thing only exists in theory.


Anyone who argues that the govt can correct the market is forgetting one very important factor.

In order for that to happen, you need an informed bureaucracy and such a thing doesn't even exist in theory.
 
2012-09-29 04:54:05 PM  
FTFA:

Bowing to pressure from consumers and advocacy groups, major car rental companies have agreed to end the practice of renting cars that have been recalled for safety problems and are supporting legislation that will end the practice.

That's the market, not govt, subtard.
 
2012-09-29 05:06:38 PM  

iawai: FTFA:

Bowing to pressure from consumers and advocacy groups, major car rental companies have agreed to end the practice of renting cars that have been recalled for safety problems and are supporting legislation that will end the practice.

That's the market, not govt, subtard.


Except for the whole legislation part. I'm totally sure they would have supported regulations if Enterprise hadn't lost a lawsuit they had been fighting for five years.
 
2012-09-29 05:20:50 PM  

aurorous: geek_mars: I'm no expert on commerce, the free market, capitalism, business, right wing ideology or government oversight, but wouldn't this:

Consumer pressure "made us reconsider our position," said Laura Bryant, communications director for Enterprise. "We thought federal regulation and oversight was not needed ... The consumers told us they would be more comfortable with greater oversight."

be a perfect example of the market self-correcting? The company made a decision, consumers responded and based on that response the company changed their policy.


Except the rental companies have the full freedom to reverse that ruling at any time (like when they cut back in a slow economy) and they probably won't tell anyone when they do change the policy. Big blockbuster headlines like two girls dying in a car crash will make a corporation say anything people want to hear. What they won't do is keep that promise 5 years later if they think they can get away with it. With a law in place if it happens again they're legally on the hook and they'll know it if they break the law the family of the next victim will have a much easier time in court.

Laws keep people honest after the headlines have died down.


This.
 
2012-09-29 05:26:42 PM  
As soon as I saw the picture of the sisters, the room got dusty.

Goddamn it all to Hell.
 
2012-09-29 06:00:24 PM  

Coelacanth: As soon as I saw the picture of the sisters, the room got dusty.

Goddamn it all to Hell.


If they were uglier and not smiling I would have ruled in favor of the rental company.

/just kidding with ya
 
2012-09-29 06:32:51 PM  
The sad thing is, these girls were actually in a car rented from Enterprise, which meant they were more successful than 90% of the people who make a reservation with them.
 
2012-09-29 06:38:29 PM  
Corporations are people, too, my friend.
 
2012-09-29 06:40:12 PM  

MFAWG: I honestly cannot figure out why rental car companies would ignore recalls?


^This. The parents won $15 million so the company is out the money, and the girls are still dead. Completely senseless tragedy.

Even as a wingnut conservative, I'd support negligent homocide prosecution against people driving unsafe vehicles. That's just crazy.

/maintain your car
//take it in for even the most minor recall notice
 
2012-09-29 07:32:41 PM  
TFA Bowing to pressure from consumers and advocacy groups, major car rental companies have agreed to end the practice of renting cars that have been recalled for safety problems

Let me get this straight. An article about a business changing it's practices in response to consumer and advocacy pressure, without any changes to government regulations, is a sign that we need more government regulations?

TFAA loophole in recall laws allowed rental car companies to keep recalled cars in their fleets, without repairs, indefinitely.


Actually, government regulations created the loophole that allowed the cars to remain on the road.

Snapper Carr: Anyone who argues that the market self-corrects is forgetting one very important factor. In order for that to happen, you need an informed consumer base and such a thing only exists in theory.


Anyone who argues that government regulations can fix perceived problems in the market is forgetting one very important factor. In order for that to happen you need government regulators that are more informed than the average consumer, uninfluenced by politics, and unbiased with respect to the market they are regulating, and such a person exists only in theory.
 
2012-09-29 07:38:34 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: coco ebert: Do conservatives honestly believe that liberals LOVE regulation for its own sake? They don't see the whole, "we don't want people to die unnecessarily" aspect to it?

How is nanny bloombergs soda law going to prevent people from dying unnecessarily?


You're seriously equating a soda ban with a law that prevents companies from renting equipment to the public when they know it has operational defects that may lead to injury or death?

Do you think before you type, or do you just craft every response around a randomly chosen selection from your list of things you irrationally hate about "liberals" regardless of whether it pertains to the discussion at hand?
 
2012-09-29 07:50:44 PM  

MyRandomName: Do you understand that all the government does is grow regulation, they never go through and go "hmm... well this is a shiatty regulation, we should amend it".


Like any closed-minded conservative, you completely ignore anything positive that happened under a Democrat. During Clinton's terms, the government eliminated about 15,000 pages of federal regulations. You probably also forget Al Gore's extensive efforts to streamline the government as vice president.

You also forget that a certain amount of regulation is inevitable. You cannot possibly compare the federal regulatory burden from 1970 to today, when there was no Internet or cell phones back then. We didn't need electronic privacy laws back then, because there was no electronic threat to privacy.

Besides - and this applies to many things the government regulates - a lot of the blame should be directed on those who are causing the problems. Don't like this rental car regulation? Blame the rental car companies who are greedily putting people's lives at risk for profit. Don't like smoking bans? Blame the smokers who responded to requests to move their cigarette by blowing smoke in people's faces and saying "fark you, I'll do what I want." People complain about regulation, but maybe - just maybe - if they had been a little more thoughtful about someone besides themselves, regulation wouldn't have been necessary.
 
2012-09-29 07:53:11 PM  

cabbyman: So did the hose actually leak and cause the accident?


Hey, if they had bought the car, they don't have to obey the recall. I'm betting these two would be dead anyway. Renting a PT Cruiser? What? Idiots.

And losing power steering fluid doesn't cause loss of control, it just makes steering force harder. Brakes and steering always have a mechanical link even if there is hydraulic assist. This should be required knowledge to drive.
 
2012-09-29 07:57:55 PM  

MyRandomName: shotglasss: How about a law that in situations like this, everyone on the Board of Directors is held personally liable?

The company was held responsible to the tune of 15 million dollars. The system worked. The company received a huge penalty and then the customers forced them to change policy. What do you want, indictment for murder? Do you realize that the head doesn't check every car that Enterprise owns? What a stupid idea.


Now that you mention it I would like an indictment for murder. Some where there was a board meeting where the board members approved renting out defective equipment. Those men and women are murderers (negligent homicide) and should serve the penalty. This is precisely what is wrong with our current form of capitalism. It's become corporatism with all sorts of wrong doings swept under the rug by expensive lawyers and well-healed lobbyists.

If free enterprise has even a slim chance of making it, business interests must pay the same penalties as the rest of us do. No more hiding behind the logo and size of your enterprise, every man and woman responsible for his/her own actions.
 
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