If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(AOL)   Next time someone tells you that governmental regulation of corporations isn't needed, show them this article. Of course the right will argue that the market would have self corrected after all their customers were dead   (autos.aol.com) divider line 292
    More: Sad, PT Cruiser, Enterprise Holdings, lame duck, David Strickland, car rentals  
•       •       •

13799 clicks; posted to Politics » on 29 Sep 2012 at 9:53 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



292 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all
 
2012-09-29 07:53:11 PM  

cabbyman: So did the hose actually leak and cause the accident?


Hey, if they had bought the car, they don't have to obey the recall. I'm betting these two would be dead anyway. Renting a PT Cruiser? What? Idiots.

And losing power steering fluid doesn't cause loss of control, it just makes steering force harder. Brakes and steering always have a mechanical link even if there is hydraulic assist. This should be required knowledge to drive.
 
2012-09-29 07:57:55 PM  

MyRandomName: shotglasss: How about a law that in situations like this, everyone on the Board of Directors is held personally liable?

The company was held responsible to the tune of 15 million dollars. The system worked. The company received a huge penalty and then the customers forced them to change policy. What do you want, indictment for murder? Do you realize that the head doesn't check every car that Enterprise owns? What a stupid idea.


Now that you mention it I would like an indictment for murder. Some where there was a board meeting where the board members approved renting out defective equipment. Those men and women are murderers (negligent homicide) and should serve the penalty. This is precisely what is wrong with our current form of capitalism. It's become corporatism with all sorts of wrong doings swept under the rug by expensive lawyers and well-healed lobbyists.

If free enterprise has even a slim chance of making it, business interests must pay the same penalties as the rest of us do. No more hiding behind the logo and size of your enterprise, every man and woman responsible for his/her own actions.
 
2012-09-29 08:19:21 PM  
Wow, that's one hell of a strawman, subby.
 
2012-09-29 08:33:38 PM  
When someone on the right starts frothing at the mouth about free markets remind them that they ignore these same supposedly sacred beliefs when it's convenient. The war on drugs is nothing more than a bloated government agency built around an invasive and government empowering regulation that directly impedes a market transaction.
It of course seems t have their full support.

Hypnozombie
 
2012-09-29 09:03:30 PM  

Talondel: TFA Bowing to pressure from consumers and advocacy groups, major car rental companies have agreed to end the practice of renting cars that have been recalled for safety problems

Let me get this straight. An article about a business changing it's practices in response to consumer and advocacy pressure, without any changes to government regulations, is a sign that we need more government regulations?

TFAA loophole in recall laws allowed rental car companies to keep recalled cars in their fleets, without repairs, indefinitely.


Actually, government regulations created the loophole that allowed the cars to remain on the road.

Snapper Carr: Anyone who argues that the market self-corrects is forgetting one very important factor. In order for that to happen, you need an informed consumer base and such a thing only exists in theory.

Anyone who argues that government regulations can fix perceived problems in the market is forgetting one very important factor. In order for that to happen you need government regulators that are more informed than the average consumer, uninfluenced by politics, and unbiased with respect to the market they are regulating, and such a person exists only in theory.


Did you forget to quote the entire first sentence intentionally? They're supporting the legislation which would mandate these regulations. They wouldn't have done otherwise except that Enterprise lost a major court battle after five years. Obviously the rental car company cared about their customers so much that they took advantage of the loophole and two people are confirmed dead because of it. But hey let them regulate themselves.
 
2012-09-29 09:04:37 PM  

Snapper Carr: Anyone who argues that the market self-corrects is forgetting one very important factor.

In order for that to happen, you need an informed consumer base and such a thing only exists in theory.


There is a free market solution for things like this, but these 'forums' are designed to dissuade long winded rants. Not in the mood to put on my armor and go to battle over this. Besides, this is not lecute hall and I have no tenure. 

/pay sucks too.
 
2012-09-29 09:14:27 PM  

Trance750: Not only is regulation needed, I'll go as far as to say CEOs should have to have White House Approval, before being named CEO


Let's you and I talk about this, if I may. You truly think that (let's have fun here) NIXON should have had approval dibs for CEOs? Remember here that even NGOs have CEOs. Again, do you endorse BUSH determining who becomes the CEO of Nationa Public Radio?

Think a bit before answering. Consider this possibility: Romney, as president (remote possibility, but still), should (according to you) determine who is CEO of NBC, CBS and ABC networks? Really? REALLY!

Perhaps your education has failed you at some point. But' I'm still here hoping that you reply. I like guys like you. Engage me here, if you would. If you are up to it.
 
2012-09-29 09:26:38 PM  

Talondel: Anyone who argues that government regulations can fix perceived problems in the market is forgetting one very important factor. In order for that to happen you need government regulators that are more informed than the average consumer, uninfluenced by politics, and unbiased with respect to the market they are regulating, and such a person exists only in theory.


iawai: Anyone who argues that the govt can correct the market is forgetting one very important factor.

In order for that to happen, you need an informed bureaucracy and such a thing doesn't even exist in theory.



So, your solution is caveat emptor? Let a few of the biatches die, that'll learn 'em? Instead of a requiring requiring a company perform due diligence in making sure its products are safe for consumption which might dock a few points off the precious bottom line, that burden should be wholly and completely on the consumer and fark 'em if they don't know any better.?


Good to know where your are priorities are.
 
2012-09-29 09:29:51 PM  

Smackledorfer: cabbyman: Whiskey Pete: cabbyman: His statement explained his understanding of the policy: If a priority recall appears on the computer screen in the rental office, the employee is required to write the word "recall" on a Post-it note and place it on the key in an area designated for non-rentals, but nothing prevents an employee from renting that vehicle."

Well that system certainly sounds fool-proof and should rightfully overturn the lawsuit. No regulation needed here.

The point was that if she worked there and that sticker existed then she would have known that the car was due for a recall when she rented it to herself. That was not outside the realm of possibility.

Regardless the company admitted fault and paid $15 million so I'm guessing that either didn't happen or if it did happen it didn't absolve them of the responsibility.

AFTER FIVE YEARS.

And only because a government system was in place to allow the lawsuit and that a system was in place to look into the cause of the crash. The initial recall, of course, only being there because of government laws.

My peanut butter just got recalled for salmonella a few days ago so I'm getting a kick at people thinking the government shouldn't be involved in safety. I am glad they are.


Hello Smackledorfer. Good, reasonable argument ya got there. Carry on please.
 
2012-09-29 10:10:42 PM  

cabbyman: WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: MFAWG: I honestly cannot figure out why rental car companies would ignore recalls?

Because being safe costs money and lowers the profit that goes to the noble job creators. (obvious)

Those girls that died probably weren't rich, so it's ok. there is nothing Romney could have done to help them anyways.

Recalls like that don't cost you money. I suppose it costs you time to take the car in but the company pays for the fix.


It costs the rental car company money for the same reason a container ship in port or a long haul truck at a truck stop costs its corporation money... if it's not on the road it's not making the company profit. If the rental car company has hundreds or thousands of it cars out of commission for even a day, that's thousands of days unrented with hundreds of thousands of miles undriven. The beancounters probably figured that if one or two people died it would still cost them less than that. They don't think about bad PR, they just think about numbers.

tl:dr - corporations are greedy bastards.
 
2012-09-29 10:25:10 PM  
www.chrysler.com/universal/webselfservice/pdf/D18.pdf

Yea, it says FIRE in there...... "learning to drive" as you say, won't help those girls, idiot.
 
2012-09-29 10:28:09 PM  

cabbyman:
Enterprise, the nation's largest rental car company, and its corporate parent contested the lawsuit for five years, then admitted in May they were negligent and that "their negligence was the sole proximate cause of the fatal injuries," according to a document signed by their attorneys."


Enterprise cost the taxpayers thousands of dollars in court time and put the parents of these two girls through five years of suffering and grief just because they were too fu(king greedy to take their cars out of service for one or two fu(king days to get them fixed by the dealer for free.

If I were the parents, $15 million would be just the appetizer.
 
2012-09-29 10:38:29 PM  

MFAWG:

The next obvious question: How the fark did somebody not notice a fairly large fluid leak on what is essentially a brand new car?


It was probably a very small fluid leak... until you turned the key and put that fluid under pressure. Steering pump fluid uses a lot of pressure to turn the wheels, especially at speed. A pinhole becomes a spray, the engine is at several hundred degrees... char broiled people.
 
2012-09-29 10:41:56 PM  

Krymson Tyde: FTA: It's taken two years for Sen. Barbara Boxer and Sen. Chuck Schumer to get the majority of the rental car industry on board.

Can someone more learned in the ways of government than I explain why there is a need to get companies "on board" before they can pass common sence legislation?


Because both parties are in the pockets of corporations?
 
2012-09-29 11:01:28 PM  
The recall notice said the repairs would take anywhere from .5 to one hour. Lost revenue?.. c'mon..........
 
2012-09-29 11:35:22 PM  

Mettr: The recall notice said the repairs would take anywhere from .5 to one hour. Lost revenue?.. c'mon..........


Multiplied by a few thousand cars, plus the labour to drive them to the repair center and back. We're looking at tens of thousands of dollars just for one vehicle type.
 
2012-09-29 11:43:21 PM  

spongeboob: There is a difference between having manual steering and failed power steering. But that aside a fire in the power steering pump would pretty quickly burn/melt lots of important things like the steering gear box, tie rod ends, struts, joints etc.


Ummm... Pretty sure even Chrysler doesn't make steering gear boxes or tie rod ends out of plastic. If the heat is enough to melt a steel tie rod end you've got bigger problems - like the metal foundry you just drove into Terminator 2 style.
 
2012-09-29 11:59:12 PM  

ROBO-Jesus: Mettr: The recall notice said the repairs would take anywhere from .5 to one hour. Lost revenue?.. c'mon..........

Multiplied by a few thousand cars, plus the labour to drive them to the repair center and back. We're looking at tens of thousands of dollars just for one vehicle type.


Come the Fark on. This is Enterprise. They have like three actual cars. I was impressed that these girls managed to rent one.
 
2012-09-30 12:37:14 AM  
"they knew what they were getting into. I say, let 'em crash."

3.bp.blogspot.com


If you think we need less regulation on car saftey, go get yourself a '72 Pinto.
 
2012-09-30 01:06:57 AM  
Also state and local governments could get involved in things like this. Find out a business is doing something negligent? Don't even bother waiting for the trial to finish, yank their business license.
 
2012-09-30 02:58:05 AM  

dfenstrate: I love how leftists argue for regulation in the abstract, as if there wasn't good regulation, bad regulation, destructive regulation, and frequent purchase of the regulators by the regulated- something the D's have all had hands in.
The strawman that Right-wingers want anarchy as the alternative to their suffocating, all-encompassing state is equally amusing.


The irony in your statement being that I have never heard a left wing person say "more regulation is better." They do say "we need regulation." Its the right wingers who VERY commonly say "Too much regulation" and "I will reduce regulation" etc - as if those are solutions to a problem.

Its the right wing who speaks of regulation only in terms of quantity - when everyone SHOULD be speaking of regulation in terms of quality. I will absolutely agree that there are lots of STUPID regulations out there that make no sense to anyone on either side of the political spectrum. Those need to go. At the same time - lots of it really does make sense.

If you want a reasonable way to do things - hire people whose sole job is to examine regulations and see if they make sense. Empower them to remove senseless regulations and enact even some new and sensible regulation.

But make sure these people have a good education and possibly real world experience - especially involving the areas they might look over. Such people would also need to be tested to make sure they are capable of analyzing problems and calculating solutions. Make sure they have critical thinking ability.

Heck, can we need to have that test for national level politicians too. Imagine how much better Washington DC could operate if you got rid of all the stupid politicians. It would never happen - but a man can dream.
 
2012-09-30 03:26:58 AM  

Talondel: Actually, government regulations created the loophole that allowed the cars to remain on the road.


Not sure if serious...
 
2012-09-30 03:43:03 AM  

Coelacanth: As soon as I saw the picture of the sisters, the room got dusty.

Goddamn it all to Hell.


Don't worry. If they were fat and ugly you wouldn't feel as bad.
 
2012-09-30 03:45:07 AM  

Yankees Team Gynecologist: tenpoundsofcheese: Just as much as the left believes the right wants to get rid of all regulations.

[www.focusonlinecommunities.com image 400x400]



Funny quote that.

The Gipper expanded the federal payroll and deficit and the Bushes joined him on that tilt. But the GOP doesn't like to talk about that.
 
2012-09-30 05:16:18 AM  
This is what the right needs to learn about those evil evil regulations:
1. Regulations are put in place because someone fu(ked up.
2. Stop fu(king up, and there is no need for regulations.
3. Profit

It's really really REALLY simple guys... if your corporation didn't pollute, there'd be no need for pollution regulations. If they didn't purposely expose their employees to hazardous working conditions, there'd be no need for OSHA regulations. If places that serve the public (like restaurants) made their facilities handicap accessible on their own, there'd be no need for the ADA. If car rental places didn't knowingly rent unsafe cars to people (post-it notes? really?), there'd be no need for regulations for renting cars.

Think of all the government agencies that would simply disappear for lack of purpose if there was less fu(king up by corporations, companies, businesses of all types.

If you're not fu(king up, regulations don't mean a thing to you. Regulations are for those who put profit ahead of the environment, profit ahead of safety, profit ahead of common sense, profit ahead of everything. Think about what's right, not just what's profitable... that's why Enterprise ended up shelling out $15 mil, and now has a bad rep that will take years to fix.
 
2012-09-30 05:28:32 AM  
First, even though the repairs for the recall don't take a long time to complete, anyone who has been through a recall for a an automobile knows that the dealer doesn't give you a same-day repair slot and fix your car and return it to you immediately. Add to that the fact that rental companies usually carry many of the same model and year, which means that it literally could be tying up multiple vehicles for weeks at a time.

This is just another case of trying to substitute federal government regulations for common sense. Common sense would say to fix the cars as soon as possible, and probably to take them out of the rental fleet until they are fixed, because if you're a car rental company, you don't want your stuff smashed up. Now if only we can have a series of laws enacted that will perpetually protect all corporations from having any of their employees think about anything at all, and protect them from liability because they follow all the government regulations that make everyone safe all the time. Thanks, nanny state, for making us so impotent that we aren't allowed to make decisions, and so stupid that we are unable to apply the critical thinking necessary to make decisions.

/never fixed that Toyota accelerator recall thing.
//still alive.
 
2012-09-30 06:31:57 AM  

rewind2846: Regulations are for those who put profit ahead of the environment, profit ahead of safety, profit ahead of common sense, profit ahead of everything.



Republicans.
 
2012-09-30 08:00:51 AM  

crab66: Don't worry. If they were fat and ugly you wouldn't feel as bad.


I think one of the reasons I'm an atheist is so that I may find comfort in believing that you never had a soul to begin, instead of feeling sad while watching you, and others like you, piss yours away making these stupid comments.
 
2012-09-30 09:16:02 AM  

Talondel: Anyone who argues that government regulations can fix perceived problems in the market is forgetting one very important factor. In order for that to happen you need government regulators that are more informed than the average consumer, uninfluenced by politics, and unbiased with respect to the market they are regulating, and such a person exists only in theory.


None of this is particularly true.
 
2012-09-30 10:11:31 AM  

Coelacanth: I think one of the reasons I'm an atheist is so that I may find comfort in believing that you never had a soul to begin, instead of feeling sad while watching you, and others like you, piss yours away making these stupid comments.


I guess the truth hurts.
 
2012-09-30 02:25:36 PM  
At the level of someone dying or getting injured, yes, absolutely.

At the other end of the spectrum, in the UK, the government has commitees on the price of football shirts.
 
2012-09-30 06:51:38 PM  

Without Fail: cabbyman: OK so lets start the list of potentially lethal activities that the government should outlaw in order to protect us:

war


GOOD GOD Y'ALL
 
2012-10-01 01:03:24 AM  

Snapper Carr: Anyone who argues that the market self-corrects is forgetting one very important factor.

In order for that to happen, you need an informed consumer base and such a thing only exists in theory.


Hmmmm...... one might say the same thing for..... politics.
 
2012-10-01 02:21:59 AM  

rewind2846: This is what the right needs to learn about those evil evil regulations:
1. Regulations are put in place because someone fu(ked up.
2. Stop fu(king up, and there is no need for regulations.
3. Profit

It's really really REALLY simple guys... if your corporation didn't pollute, there'd be no need for pollution regulations. If they didn't purposely expose their employees to hazardous working conditions, there'd be no need for OSHA regulations. If places that serve the public (like restaurants) made their facilities handicap accessible on their own, there'd be no need for the ADA. If car rental places didn't knowingly rent unsafe cars to people (post-it notes? really?), there'd be no need for regulations for renting cars.

Think of all the government agencies that would simply disappear for lack of purpose if there was less fu(king up by corporations, companies, businesses of all types.

If you're not fu(king up, regulations don't mean a thing to you. Regulations are for those who put profit ahead of the environment, profit ahead of safety, profit ahead of common sense, profit ahead of everything. Think about what's right, not just what's profitable... that's why Enterprise ended up shelling out $15 mil, and now has a bad rep that will take years to fix.


____________________________________

While you make good points - it isn't entirely true. There are lots of stupid regulations out there. Case in point - I manage a CVS. Here are some small examples.

Health inspector comes in and sees on our back wall of the sales floor some paper towel and/or toilet paper packages stacked up on the floor. They cannot touch the floor. Why? Doesn't matter why. Its a health code violation. Putting a 2 litter crate under them brings them a few inches off the ground thus solving the issue and everyone feels of so much safer.

On a subsequent visit, he finds we have some overstock toilet paper packages stored in the hallway leading to the bathroom. They ARE on 2 litter crates. VIOLATION. Why? Its not for ADA - this is the health department and our hallways is wide enough even with those packages in place(I measured).

Apparently you cannot have the toilet paper stored there at all. It "contributes to a less healthy environment for customers and employees" apparently. Keep in mind the other location I discussed is literally on the other side of a wall aka a few inches away. That is OK but this is not.

Seems to me that having it there means an emergency supply of toilet paper being available if it ran out within the bathroom. Running out of tp seems like an actual concern regarding health and cleanliness...

Something that is more recent - in Illinois now we must card people buying acetone. Yes you must be 18 to buy nail polish remover. Why? Its used in meth production. Good thing that all the people making meth are under the age of 18... this should FINALLY stop meth for good. LOL. The meth heads are probably stealing it anyhow rather than buying it. In the chance they could not buy it because of the ID issue - they definitely would take this step next.

There is lots of stuff like this. I think anyone involved in business has tales of this nature.

That said, I am pro-regulation. But more regulation is not always better. Less regulation likewise does not always help the free market function better. The key is SMART, EFFECTIVE regulations.

Another thing many people may not know - the Conservative lobbying organization knows as ALEC is responsible for a great many regulations being passed. Yeah you read that right. Turns out that large incumbent businesses LIKE burdensome regulation in certain cases. The prime case being regulations that are costly to implement initially - things the large established company can easily afford too and generally don't cost much as a matter on a matter of scale.

But those burdensome regulations make it VERY hard for new upstarts with less cash on hand and lower initial volume. In other words, they use regulations as an anti-competitive weapon... very effectively. They can't directly engage in anti-competitive practices without breaking laws... so they get politicians to do it for them via lobbying and campaign contributions(bribery is what it is). Suddenly... TADA! Its all legal that way.

As an added bonus - Conservatives can complain about more stifling regulations... that where passed thanks to Conservative efforts. Its a double win. That is the game, and more people need to know about it.
 
2012-10-01 07:03:06 AM  
My favorite part of the article was where the rental company admitted that the customers don't want to die because the company doesn't have to repair or even let them know that it could potentially be faulty. You can just imagine a sulking child complaining about how no one wants to take responsibility for their actions. Then, because you're part of the generation that was born with ADHD, you'd start thinking of the scene in AIRPLAIN! Where he said "they bought their tickets. I say, let them crash."
 
2012-10-01 09:36:28 AM  

Trance750: Not only is regulation needed, I'll go as far as to say CEOs should have to have White House Approval, before being named CEO


It actually works the opposite way.
 
2012-10-01 01:58:40 PM  

WhoIsNotInMyKitchen: MFAWG: I honestly cannot figure out why rental car companies would ignore recalls?

Because being safe costs money and lowers the profit that goes to the noble job creators. (obvious).


For an executive, doing time for manslaughter could be pretty costly too. Read the fine print on whatever "regulation" they support. Business as usual would predict some kind of corporate immunity from prosecution, in exchange for a slightly increased paperwork burden.
 
2012-10-01 02:19:27 PM  

Snapper Carr: Talondel: Anyone who argues that government regulations can fix perceived problems in the market is forgetting one very important factor. In order for that to happen you need government regulators that are more informed than the average consumer, uninfluenced by politics, and unbiased with respect to the market they are regulating, and such a person exists only in theory.

iawai: Anyone who argues that the govt can correct the market is forgetting one very important factor.

In order for that to happen, you need an informed bureaucracy and such a thing doesn't even exist in theory.


So, your solution is caveat emptor? Let a few of the biatches die, that'll learn 'em? Instead of a requiring requiring a company perform due diligence in making sure its products are safe for consumption which might dock a few points off the precious bottom line, that burden should be wholly and completely on the consumer and fark 'em if they don't know any better.?


Good to know where your are priorities are.


Instead of conjuring my position out of thin air, you could just ask me what I think can be done to protect consumers.

But then you wouldn't be able to feel all righteous by destroying your strawman.
 
2012-10-01 06:26:36 PM  

max_pooper: MFAWG: I honestly cannot figure out why rental car companies would ignore recalls?

Having a recalled item fixed on a personal car means taking your car to the dealership and picking it up a couple of days later: minor inconvenience. I have no idea what the logistics of getting 1000 Corollas in a rental fleet recalled would mean. I'm sure it's a huge nightmare that involves losing lots of money which is exactly why they don't do unless forced to.


Yeah, and that is why companies have things called processes. You create a process to deal with a situation to minimize downtime and cost.

But you anti-regulation types are 2 parts wrong:

Part #1 Self-Regulation:

Companies will magically self regulate themselves and do the right thing.

Part #2 Avoidance of liability.

We can't create laws to force them to make good choices but we can make laws making them not at fault for heinous acts. Go Team Republican!
 
2012-10-02 02:27:50 AM  

Semi-Sane: The free market works just fine. If enough people got killed or injured in car accidents using certain rental companies it would ruin the companies' reputation(s) and people would go elsewhere.

and the company would change its name,
 
2012-10-02 02:58:49 AM  

tenpoundsofcheese: coco ebert: Do conservatives honestly believe that liberals LOVE regulation for its own sake? They don't see the whole, "we don't want people to die unnecessarily" aspect to it?

Just as much as the left believes the right wants to get rid of all regulations.


Which regulations does the right what to keep in place?
Which tax loopholes will Romney close to make his tax rate cuts revenue neutral?
 
2012-10-02 10:07:59 AM  

Semi-Sane: The free market works just fine. If enough people got killed or injured in car accidents using certain rental companies, it would ruin the companies' reputation(s) and people would go elsewhere.


Problem: how would the public know about the deaths or injuries?

Take away the regulations, and then how would anyone know why these girls died?
 
Displayed 42 of 292 comments

First | « | 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | » | Last | Show all

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »






Report