If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(TMZ)   Stan Lee isn't dead, he just received a pacemaker. In other news, hardcore Kirbyites will soon accuse Stan of using the ol' Kirby Krackle to keep his heart going   (tmz.com) divider line 33
    More: Followup  
•       •       •

998 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Sep 2012 at 7:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



33 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-09-29 05:05:51 AM
Stan Lee died and was replaced with a series of LMDs years ago, everybody knows that.
 
2012-09-29 05:47:14 AM
Stan used to work in the same building as me when MGM was in Santa Monica. He was a nice man.
 
2012-09-29 08:19:20 AM
You sure it wasn't one of these?

encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com
 
2012-09-29 08:42:31 AM
Stan, I really love Marvel's Silver Age. There was a great stable of talent and you let things happen and it was wonderful. But, I think you're a dick.
 
2012-09-29 09:27:51 AM

Irving Maimway: But, I think you're a dick.


Yeah, what a frothing asshole!

/what did he say?
 
2012-09-29 09:30:29 AM

Mentalpatient87: Irving Maimway: But, I think you're a dick.

Yeah, what a frothing asshole!

/what did he say?


Eh, he probably didn't say the names "Kirby" and "Ditko" at least 50,000 times in one minute, thereby leading the devout to believe he wasn't giving enough credit to others.
 
2012-09-29 09:37:25 AM
Spider-Man, Bruce Banner, Daredevil, The Avengers and the X-Men can all rest easy?

I'm just curious why Banner is the only alter-ego singled out?
 
2012-09-29 09:37:54 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Eh, he probably didn't say the names "Kirby" and "Ditko" at least 50,000 times in one minute, thereby leading the devout to believe he wasn't giving enough credit to others.


You better start from the top. I never read comics and most of the time I only keep up with video-game related nerd drama. So they think he's not giving enough credit to the other guys in his team? Because it sounded like he was on board with the "co-creator" title and appreciated the work of the one guy he mentioned.
 
2012-09-29 09:40:49 AM
please top appearing in marvel movies. you suck at it
 
2012-09-29 09:42:11 AM

Mentalpatient87: FirstNationalBastard: Eh, he probably didn't say the names "Kirby" and "Ditko" at least 50,000 times in one minute, thereby leading the devout to believe he wasn't giving enough credit to others.

You better start from the top. I never read comics and most of the time I only keep up with video-game related nerd drama. So they think he's not giving enough credit to the other guys in his team? Because it sounded like he was on board with the "co-creator" title and appreciated the work of the one guy he mentioned.


There is a faction of hardcore "KIRBY IS GOD" folk out there who think Lee is scum because of older interviews he did where he didn't mention Kirby and Ditko as co-creators. This was back in the 60s and early 70s, when Lee was in full-on Marvel shill mode.They also wrongly believe that Lee "stole" from Kirby and Ditko, even though Lee was just an editor at Marvel and not in the position to steal characters from anyone (that was the job of Martin Goodman, publisher. Plus, everyone knew it was work for hire, so their ideas were the company's. Even Lee's.)

In the last couple decades, Lee has been rather generous with credit for everyone, because it was a team effort. But, some people just can't get over it, because Lee is still around giving interviews, Kirby is dead, and Ditko is a raving Randroid.
 
2012-09-29 09:42:43 AM

Irving Maimway: Stan, I really love Marvel's Silver Age. There was a great stable of talent and you let things happen and it was wonderful. But, I think you're a dick.


Talk about a contrived controversy. This is pathetic
 
2012-09-29 09:45:27 AM

FirstNationalBastard: But, some people just can't get over it


Isn't that usually how nerd drama goes?
 
2012-09-29 09:54:13 AM
Great to learn The Stan is still with us.

/Excelsior!
 
2012-09-29 10:20:32 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Mentalpatient87: FirstNationalBastard: Eh, he probably didn't say the names "Kirby" and "Ditko" at least 50,000 times in one minute, thereby leading the devout to believe he wasn't giving enough credit to others.

You better start from the top. I never read comics and most of the time I only keep up with video-game related nerd drama. So they think he's not giving enough credit to the other guys in his team? Because it sounded like he was on board with the "co-creator" title and appreciated the work of the one guy he mentioned.

There is a faction of hardcore "KIRBY IS GOD" folk out there who think Lee is scum because of older interviews he did where he didn't mention Kirby and Ditko as co-creators. This was back in the 60s and early 70s, when Lee was in full-on Marvel shill mode.They also wrongly believe that Lee "stole" from Kirby and Ditko, even though Lee was just an editor at Marvel and not in the position to steal characters from anyone (that was the job of Martin Goodman, publisher. Plus, everyone knew it was work for hire, so their ideas were the company's. Even Lee's.)

In the last couple decades, Lee has been rather generous with credit for everyone, because it was a team effort. But, some people just can't get over it, because Lee is still around giving interviews, Kirby is dead, and Ditko is a raving Randroid.


Watch the Jonathan Ross video. Stan says the writer deserves all the credit. His opinion hasn't changed at all over the years, he just avoids saying it on camera if at all possible.

So while I love the characters and stories, Stan's a dick.
 
2012-09-29 10:23:24 AM

Irving Maimway: Stan says the writer deserves all the credit


All the credit for everything? Or all the credit for writing? Fill me in with your opinion, in more than two sentences. I'm genuinely curious, here.
 
2012-09-29 10:23:44 AM

Irving Maimway: FirstNationalBastard: Mentalpatient87: FirstNationalBastard: Eh, he probably didn't say the names "Kirby" and "Ditko" at least 50,000 times in one minute, thereby leading the devout to believe he wasn't giving enough credit to others.

You better start from the top. I never read comics and most of the time I only keep up with video-game related nerd drama. So they think he's not giving enough credit to the other guys in his team? Because it sounded like he was on board with the "co-creator" title and appreciated the work of the one guy he mentioned.

There is a faction of hardcore "KIRBY IS GOD" folk out there who think Lee is scum because of older interviews he did where he didn't mention Kirby and Ditko as co-creators. This was back in the 60s and early 70s, when Lee was in full-on Marvel shill mode.They also wrongly believe that Lee "stole" from Kirby and Ditko, even though Lee was just an editor at Marvel and not in the position to steal characters from anyone (that was the job of Martin Goodman, publisher. Plus, everyone knew it was work for hire, so their ideas were the company's. Even Lee's.)

In the last couple decades, Lee has been rather generous with credit for everyone, because it was a team effort. But, some people just can't get over it, because Lee is still around giving interviews, Kirby is dead, and Ditko is a raving Randroid.

Watch the Jonathan Ross video. Stan says the writer deserves all the credit. His opinion hasn't changed at all over the years, he just avoids saying it on camera if at all possible.

So while I love the characters and stories, Stan's a dick.


There was no "writer" in the Marvel method.
 
2012-09-29 10:36:03 AM

Mentalpatient87: Irving Maimway: Stan says the writer deserves all the credit

All the credit for everything? Or all the credit for writing? Fill me in with your opinion, in more than two sentences. I'm genuinely curious, here.


I'm on my phone so I can't do a transcript but he says in the clip something to the effect that the guy with the idea (meaning Stan) deserves all the credit for creating the character. All I'm saying is it's a collaboration and without the artist to bring that idea to life, it's not a fully realized creation.
 
2012-09-29 10:37:55 AM

Irving Maimway: I'm on my phone so I can't do a transcript but he says in the clip something to the effect that the guy with the idea (meaning Stan) deserves all the credit for creating the character. All I'm saying is it's a collaboration and without the artist to bring that idea to life, it's not a fully realized creation.


That's a load. He came up with the idea. It's his. You don't call the construction crew "co-architects" do you?
 
2012-09-29 10:47:29 AM

Mentalpatient87: Irving Maimway: I'm on my phone so I can't do a transcript but he says in the clip something to the effect that the guy with the idea (meaning Stan) deserves all the credit for creating the character. All I'm saying is it's a collaboration and without the artist to bring that idea to life, it's not a fully realized creation.

That's a load. He came up with the idea. It's his. You don't call the construction crew "co-architects" do you?


Look at Kirby's design for Spider-Man and then look at Ditko's and then say it's all Stan.
 
2012-09-29 10:58:52 AM

Irving Maimway: FirstNationalBastard: Mentalpatient87: FirstNationalBastard: Eh, he probably didn't say the names "Kirby" and "Ditko" at least 50,000 times in one minute, thereby leading the devout to believe he wasn't giving enough credit to others.

You better start from the top. I never read comics and most of the time I only keep up with video-game related nerd drama. So they think he's not giving enough credit to the other guys in his team? Because it sounded like he was on board with the "co-creator" title and appreciated the work of the one guy he mentioned.

There is a faction of hardcore "KIRBY IS GOD" folk out there who think Lee is scum because of older interviews he did where he didn't mention Kirby and Ditko as co-creators. This was back in the 60s and early 70s, when Lee was in full-on Marvel shill mode.They also wrongly believe that Lee "stole" from Kirby and Ditko, even though Lee was just an editor at Marvel and not in the position to steal characters from anyone (that was the job of Martin Goodman, publisher. Plus, everyone knew it was work for hire, so their ideas were the company's. Even Lee's.)

In the last couple decades, Lee has been rather generous with credit for everyone, because it was a team effort. But, some people just can't get over it, because Lee is still around giving interviews, Kirby is dead, and Ditko is a raving Randroid.

Watch the Jonathan Ross video. Stan says the writer deserves all the credit. His opinion hasn't changed at all over the years, he just avoids saying it on camera if at all possible.

So while I love the characters and stories, Stan's a dick.


Actually, Stan comes across as being extremely charitable. He obviously believes that the man who dreams up a character is the creator. It's his personal belief.

Despite that he states that he has no problem giving credit to Ditko and even says that Ditko deserves it for all the hard work he put into the Spiderman series.

How exactly is that dickish at all?
 
2012-09-29 11:02:02 AM

Irving Maimway: Mentalpatient87: Irving Maimway: I'm on my phone so I can't do a transcript but he says in the clip something to the effect that the guy with the idea (meaning Stan) deserves all the credit for creating the character. All I'm saying is it's a collaboration and without the artist to bring that idea to life, it's not a fully realized creation.

That's a load. He came up with the idea. It's his. You don't call the construction crew "co-architects" do you?

Look at Kirby's design for Spider-Man and then look at Ditko's and then say it's all Stan.


I don't know what you're getting at here. Remember that I've not so much as cracked open a comic book, and don't know what Kirby and Ditko's first farking names are.. I'm gonna need more than fanboy dismissal to get a good gauge of the situation.

Look, yes or no, did Kirby or Ditko write anything that defines Spiderman as a character? Did they just draw him?

If yes to the first, then they deserve credit for creating the character.
If yes to the second, then they're artists that produced an image of what someone else came up with. As such, they only deserve the credit for being good artists, which should be plenty.
 
2012-09-29 11:10:01 AM
Just sent this article to a friend, about a bad decision installing a pacemaker.
 
2012-09-29 11:12:47 AM
So, for now, we'll have two Stan Lees. Whew. Fake Stan Lee would have stepped up though.

Fake Stan Lee
 
2012-09-29 11:55:38 AM

Mentalpatient87: Irving Maimway: Mentalpatient87: Irving Maimway: I'm on my phone so I can't do a transcript but he says in the clip something to the effect that the guy with the idea (meaning Stan) deserves all the credit for creating the character. All I'm saying is it's a collaboration and without the artist to bring that idea to life, it's not a fully realized creation.

That's a load. He came up with the idea. It's his. You don't call the construction crew "co-architects" do you?

Look at Kirby's design for Spider-Man and then look at Ditko's and then say it's all Stan.

I don't know what you're getting at here. Remember that I've not so much as cracked open a comic book, and don't know what Kirby and Ditko's first farking names are.. I'm gonna need more than fanboy dismissal to get a good gauge of the situation.

Look, yes or no, did Kirby or Ditko write anything that defines Spiderman as a character? Did they just draw him?

If yes to the first, then they deserve credit for creating the character.
If yes to the second, then they're artists that produced an image of what someone else came up with. As such, they only deserve the credit for being good artists, which should be plenty.


Okay, here's the deal...

Marvel was, like five guys in the early 60s... Stan Lee on the writing side, and four artists. To be able to do all of the books, Lee would come up with an idea, call up an artist, tell him the idea, they would hash out a bare bones plot, and the artist would go away and draw 24 pages of art, which Lee would then write dialogue for.

It's called the Marvel Method, where artists don't work from a script, just a basic plot and some ideas.

So, Both Lee and his artists are responsible for creating the characters. Lee says "we have a new character called Spider-Man! What can you give me?", and the artist goes away and draws Spider-Man for Lee to approve and then the art is done and Lee writes the Dialogue, and a comic book done been made.

Clear enough description of the process for you, and why Lee deserves as much credit as anyone else?
 
2012-09-29 12:50:18 PM
Stan feels he should get all the credit. For all of us Ditko and Kirby fanboys that's our beef with Stan.

And just for giggles I'll also throw in that Roy Thomas and Archie Goodwin did a massive chunk of the mid to late 60's writing and are often overlooked.
 
2012-09-29 01:41:21 PM
He must be in bad shape. He forgot to say "excelsior".
 
2012-09-29 01:49:27 PM
He's going to die within the next 5 years.
 
2012-09-29 02:57:50 PM
From the doc it seems Stan is willing to admits he's wrong, but still has his opinion. If that's all it takes to be a dick then count me in.

What's so hard to figure out? Was Ditko drawing dudes running around dressed as spiders before Lee said the words "Spider-man" to him? I don't think so. Would Spider-man have been as kick-ass if Stan had drawn it? Hell no. I declare a tie... viola! - co-creators.

Can we move on now?

/it wasn't called the "silver age" when I was buying books
 
2012-09-29 07:36:48 PM

FirstNationalBastard: Clear enough description of the process for you, and why Lee deserves as much credit as anyone else?


Yeah, that's good. Seems like an interesting process.

Irving Maimway: Stan feels he should get all the credit.


Is that why he said he's totally cool with the "co-creator" thing?
 
2012-09-30 01:13:33 AM

Mentalpatient87: FirstNationalBastard: Clear enough description of the process for you, and why Lee deserves as much credit as anyone else?

Yeah, that's good. Seems like an interesting process.

Irving Maimway: Stan feels he should get all the credit.

Is that why he said he's totally cool with the "co-creator" thing?


Yeah. He even made sure that Ditko got a co-creator credit in the credits for Spider-Man.
 
2012-09-30 03:27:34 AM
Look, despite his detractors, Stan Lee has been a pretty nice guy about this over the years. He even personally wrote Ditko a letter so that he could show anyone he wanted to that Stan considered him the co-creator of Spiderman.

If you really want to know where the problem is here - it's entirely with Steve Ditko. He's a farking nutbag. For evidence you just need to pull his runs on Mr. A or Hawk and Dove. It's pure, unadulterated pants on head retarded crazy objectivist garbage. Be happy that the only thing Ditko contributed to Spiderman was some art - because if Ditko had been writing it instead of Lee, Peter Parker would have been ranting about dirty hippies and working with J. Jonah Jameson to hunt down commies with Joe McCarthy.
 
2012-09-30 05:34:47 AM

TwistedFark: Look, despite his detractors, Stan Lee has been a pretty nice guy about this over the years. He even personally wrote Ditko a letter so that he could show anyone he wanted to that Stan considered him the co-creator of Spiderman.

If you really want to know where the problem is here - it's entirely with Steve Ditko. He's a farking nutbag. For evidence you just need to pull his runs on Mr. A or Hawk and Dove. It's pure, unadulterated pants on head retarded crazy objectivist garbage. Be happy that the only thing Ditko contributed to Spiderman was some art - because if Ditko had been writing it instead of Lee, Peter Parker would have been ranting about dirty hippies and working with J. Jonah Jameson to hunt down commies with Joe McCarthy.


Kirby was the same way, as far as needing a co-creator goes.

Look at Kirby's post-Marvel work... the Fourth World stuff and Kamandi are decent ideas, but the execution was bad, and the dialogue was horrible.

As much as the anti-Lee fanboys hate to admit it, Kirby needed someone, be it Joe Simon or Stan Lee, to rein him in and to write the dialogue so that the books weren't total hokey crap.

And Ditko... well, he uses original Spider-Man art as cutting boards for his vegetables, and he's a raving Randroid, so he's not quite right in the head, anyway.

/Raving Randroid: the next Stan Lee creation!
 
2012-09-30 11:32:21 AM

FirstNationalBastard: Kirby was the same way, as far as needing a co-creator goes.

Look at Kirby's post-Marvel work... the Fourth World stuff and Kamandi are decent ideas, but the execution was bad, and the dialogue was horrible.

As much as the anti-Lee fanboys hate to admit it, Kirby needed someone, be it Joe Simon or Stan Lee, to rein him in and to write the dialogue so that the books weren't total hokey crap.


There is no greater Kirby advocate than I. But Jack had many experiences before Marvel and did not create the success he did with Stan. Jack was ROYALLY screwed by Marvel several times over and several ways over (ie: he did a promotional Hulk poster for them to sell, Herb Trimpe redrew it with the same detailed layout, machinery, etc. Jack never saw dime one).

It is easy to consider the working relationship of Stan/Jack by Stan's own account of the origin of the Silver Surfer. Paraphrased... Jack and I came up with the Galactus story in FF whatever -- when Jack came in with the story art there was a character we'd never discussed -- I asked him and he said "that's the Silver Surfer".

Now if you read the first issue of Fantastic Four that Stan is describing, the ENTIRE ISSUE is about the Silver Surfer -- Galactus shows up on the last page. Stan is credited as having "written" the story -- but by his own account he didn't about the subject of the story until he got the finished pages to do dialog for. You might conclude that Stan was a credit-hogging fraud and many have done so... but it isn't that simple.

Stan's contributions to Marvel and his work with Kirby and others aren't well described by traditional words "writer" "creator" "editor" -- the last one is too little the others too big -- "Co-creator", "Plot by" were terms that didn't exist in the sixties and before Marvel, creator credits were the EXCEPTION.

Stan's work with the incredible talents of Kirby, Ditko, and others made MARVEL what it is -- and none of those guys working without him would have come close to that. 

Do we need Funky Flashman? The answer was always, clearly YES!
 
Displayed 33 of 33 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »





Report