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(Mirror.co.uk)   The final ride of the Ponds in the TARDIS is finally here and the Weeping Angels are back for one more go in the mid-season finale of Doctor Who, The Angels Take Manhattan. (FYI: Muppets will not be involved in the taking of Manhattan)   (mirror.co.uk) divider line 261
    More: Spiffy, Doctor Who, Manhattan, film series, ponds, Christmas episode, phone booth  
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1466 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Sep 2012 at 12:00 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-30 01:50:56 AM

Rwa2play: Keyser_Soze_Death: FirstNationalBastard: Keyser_Soze_Death:
The greatest DW opening theme OF ALL TIME 
(second place: the opening from the leaked, non-aired version of "Rose" if you can find it)

Wasn't that just a stereo remix of the classic Troughton/Pertwee/Baker 1 theme?

That's the Peter Howell arrangement from the Baker/Davidson period (1980-85).

This...and I actually like this one.


I actually had the 45, b/w Blakes 7 theme
 
2012-09-30 02:00:24 AM

Keyser_Soze_Death: FirstNationalBastard: Keyser_Soze_Death:
The greatest DW opening theme OF ALL TIME 
(second place: the opening from the leaked, non-aired version of "Rose" if you can find it)

Wasn't that just a stereo remix of the classic Troughton/Pertwee/Baker 1 theme?

That's the Peter Howell arrangement from the Baker/Davidson period (1980-85).


Not the non-aired "Rose" version, which is the version I was referring to.

/and it's the Baker 1-Baker 2 version, though they did do a more tarted up synth version for the Trial of a Time Lord year.
//then came the horribleness of Keff McCulloch
 
2012-09-30 02:14:58 AM
Slight Spoiler:


The Weeping Angels have brains, and they learned to farm humans! Instead of being mindless beings, they can plan ahead. Also they can change forms (it's not explained how yet, but there it is).
 
2012-09-30 02:23:00 AM

flamingboar: Slight Spoiler:


The Weeping Angels have brains, and they learned to farm humans! Instead of being mindless beings, they can plan ahead. Also they can change forms (it's not explained how yet, but there it is).


I wouldn't hold your breath waiting for that explanation.
 
2012-09-30 02:30:32 AM
I feel like it could have done better as a two parter-- and I've been feeling this way with a few of the episodes, they almost felt too rushed? (Of course, this could also be because I'm watching all the old episodes in order -- on the Daemons now) I'd say the rooftop scene fall part would've made a good cut, although at that point there was only, what, 10 minutes or so left. But they could have fleshed out the ...mobster? guy, or whatever was with that, a bit more. Eh, I dunno.
 
2012-09-30 02:41:28 AM

Dr. Whoof: Some thoughts...there were flickering lights again. Granted that is an angel calling card, but it's still possible that means something else.


I think it's something else because near the end of the episode River asked the Doctor something about whether he'd changed the light on top of the TARDIS, and it seemed to point to the whole flickering lights thing but be unconnected to angels.
 
2012-09-30 02:52:33 AM
That episode was awesome. Some plot problems. But overall, a great send-off for the Ponds.
 
2012-09-30 03:01:03 AM
I might be alone in this, but good riddance to this half-season. Stinky at best. Even this episode started with lots of cheesiness, a "quirky funny title", and lots of blah.

The logic of the Angels get stretched more each time they are used. "Blink" was arguably the best episode of the reboot, every Angels episode since has lessened their impact, and cheapened them as a villain.

See ya Ponds, don't let Angels touch you on the way out...
 
2012-09-30 03:15:21 AM

rynthetyn: Dr. Whoof: Some thoughts...there were flickering lights again. Granted that is an angel calling card, but it's still possible that means something else.

I think it's something else because near the end of the episode River asked the Doctor something about whether he'd changed the light on top of the TARDIS, and it seemed to point to the whole flickering lights thing but be unconnected to angels.



The other way 'round. The first of the lighting problems was the Doctor having to replace that bulb while leaving the voicemail in "Pond Life: August", followed by the make-up table lights flickering in "Asylum of the Daleks", the problem with Amy & Rory's ceiling bulb in "Dinosaurs on a Spaceship", the flickering streetlights in "A Town Called Mercy", UNIT's lights going out & the hospital's lights flickering in "The Power of Three".

The reference to the TARDIS' roof light was also a book-end for adult Amy. One of the things she asked the Doctor when she first stepped aboard the TARDIS before they got to Starship UK was if the bulb in the roof lamp needed to be changed. See "Meanwhile in the TARDIS 1" At the allegedly final time she sees the TARDIS, her daughter is asking about whether the bulb needs changing.

It was also a foreshadow of River's final trip in the TARDIS - and thus a mother/daughter parallel. The Doctor distracts the eldest of the three Rivers in "Last Night" by sending her outside to check the roof bulb, before her slightly older Doctor takes her back to his slightly older TARDIS to go see the Singing Towers in her final date with him.
 
2012-09-30 05:28:21 AM
I liked the Weeping Angels in Blink, less so in Flesh and Stone. I'm hoping to enjoy them again in this ep, when I get home from work and watch it
 
2012-09-30 06:55:45 AM

Flint Ironstag: It's also going to be a plot hole because in the library the Doctor tells the Vashtu Narada to "look me up" when they're about to kill him. If by then he's been wiped from history what would they find by looking him up?


They could have read River's diary. After all, it doesn't look like anyone was carrying it at the time. What to stop them from reading it?

Why they would believe it if it were the only source, I don't know. But they could learn about him.
 
2012-09-30 08:37:04 AM

deSelby: Flint Ironstag: It's also going to be a plot hole because in the library the Doctor tells the Vashtu Narada to "look me up" when they're about to kill him. If by then he's been wiped from history what would they find by looking him up?

They could have read River's diary. After all, it doesn't look like anyone was carrying it at the time. What to stop them from reading it?

Why they would believe it if it were the only source, I don't know. But they could learn about him.


The library is full of actual books, printed on paper. So even if Oswin somehow erased every computer in the universe, the printed books should be fine. I would imagine thought that physical books are more of a novelty though so they are probably not being read alot. Could be that River knows this is the one place that would still have info on The Doctor, and that's her real motivation for leading the expedition.
 
2012-09-30 09:32:11 AM

BohemianGraham: Shan: Is there any reason the episode isn't on iplayer yet? Expat shield was giving me problems today so even though I remembered in plenty of time I couldn't watch it live, but the other times I've missed the live showing it was immediately available on iplayer.

The BBC clearly just wants to fark with us.

Also, why the hell aren't the damn pirated copies up yet either? AUGH!!!!!


You're just in the right place!
 
2012-09-30 11:17:49 AM
Yes, the Doctor could go back to 1939.
Yes, Amy and Rory could sneak back onto the TARDIS when Churchhill and the "Ironsides" meet the Doctor.
But his adventures with Amy and Rory have ended.
And the Doctor hates endings.
He abandoned Sarah Jane. He abandoned Jack. He abandoned Rose. He abandoned Donna and Wilfred. (Martha left him) Just so he wouldn't have to say goodbye.
The Doctor hates endings because he is really bad at goodbyes.
He can't go back because if he does, it won't be ended anymore.
Then it'll probably lead to a much worse ending.
It's not a great ending, but it's an acceptable one. They got out alive.
River's already dealt with the death of man she loves and her own mortality.
She can handle the death of her parents.
River can go back because she is more emotionally mature than the Doctor.
 
2012-09-30 11:21:00 AM

HopScotchNSoda: Besides, it was pretty clear that River already knew that it would work.


During that scene, I was convinced that Amy and Rory would be meeting up with past-River and raising her. I was really surprised that there was no coda showing the Ponds running into Melody in past-New York.
 
2012-09-30 12:07:16 PM

Tax Boy: ZeroCorpse: Tax Boy: Spoon over Marin: I hope this is the end of the Weeping Angels story line, too.

Aliens that don't need computer animation or complex practicals?

Just a statue that stands still and can be reused endlessly for free?

The BBC would make EVERY show about the weeping angels if they could.

/even Top Gear

Actually, most of the Weeping Angels aren't just statue props. They're actors in heavy costumes and makeup. This is infinitely less time-consuming for filming than making a series of statue props in a variety of stop-motion positions and positioning them perfectly.

So no, the Weeping Angels cannot be "used endlessly for free" because you have makeup, facial and body props, makeup artists, costumers, and actors who have to be paid to make the Weeping Angels exist on any given episode of Doctor Who.

[static.hypable.com image 620x348]

[internationalhouseofgeek.files.wordpress.com image 833x458]

ACTING! 

/The BBC employs very talented babies


Obviously, those were props, but if you will direct yourself to the bold text above, you'll see that I didn't mean to include the babies (a new thing) that were obvious props. You know damned well I'm talking about all the others-- the female, "adult" Weeping Angels. And I really don't want to see all future Weeping Angels as the baby variety.

If you pay close attention during any of the WA episodes, you can see them twitching or moving in some scenes.
 
2012-09-30 12:10:27 PM
While I like the "The Doctor just wants this to end, and is accepting the ending here" theory. That wouldn't explain why he was still certain that there was nothing to do when Rory was first taken. Unless he was okay with Rory being taken, and being left, and having Amy by himself.
 
2012-09-30 12:25:59 PM
www.annette-grabowsky.de

"The Weeping Angels do worse than kill you; they send you back in time."

"That's horrible! That means the Ponds have to watch this show again!"
 
2012-09-30 12:30:05 PM
I`m just glad amy pond has gone. Rory dying twice in the last episode at least showed that the writers know they are being formulaic with these companions and they should go.

Can`t wait for a smart cute brunette.
 
2012-09-30 12:39:47 PM

NeoCortex42: HopScotchNSoda: Besides, it was pretty clear that River already knew that it would work.

During that scene, I was convinced that Amy and Rory would be meeting up with past-River and raising her. I was really surprised that there was no coda showing the Ponds running into Melody in past-New York.


Moffat wasn't going to lock himself down. He also doesn't like to answer questions that just end a story or give away everything; the answers have to open up as many new questions as they answer. The fact that it was in New York, and that Moffat writes all of the River episodes implies that Amy got her baby back (albeit presumably black) at least for a while -- especially if it is assumed that she and Rory went to 1938, as she'd have 14-15 years left when Melody regenerated.

There are a lot of questions remaining about River. Did she de-age by ~16 years, or time-travel ahead by 16 years, or have a second regeneration in a New York alley? She doesn't appear to have the vortex manipulator in the Library. Who has it at that point, and does it work? Is Mrs Angelo Mels' foster/adoptive mother? Is Mrs Angelo another regeneration of Melody/River? Are they nothing more than neighbours from whom the delinquent Mels stole the broach - or did she dig it up from Mrs Angelo's grave long into the future - or did she buy it at an estate sale in the near future? She wasn't shown to have a sonic screwdriver in "Angels in New York", but she was wearing it on her belt at several points during her incarceration. Did she just not have occasion to use it (even though it would have been handy at least a few times) or did she not have it with her? If the latter, then who had it?
 
2012-09-30 12:46:19 PM

OtherLittleGuy: [www.annette-grabowsky.de image 300x227]
"The Weeping Angels do worse than kill you; they send you back in time."
"That's horrible! That means the Ponds have to watch this show again!"


"Ah, ha ha ha ha!"

/ Not being sarcastic; just adding their usual follow-up line.
 
2012-09-30 01:01:04 PM

AlteredChemical: Spoilers


Spoilers



Spoilers


So, first, even by BBC standards, that was a damn short "season"

Did the Ponds just go back to that time prison hotel thing then? How?

Probably nitpicking, but still...

Who buried them then?


I'm not going to read the whole thread. I am on my phone.

In case anyone is wondering, the ponds did not go back to the angel hotel. That timeline is gone, erased. They went back to a normal 1938 and lived out their lives.
 
2012-09-30 01:13:50 PM

ZeroCorpse: Tax Boy: ZeroCorpse: Tax Boy: Spoon over Marin: I hope this is the end of the Weeping Angels story line, too.

Aliens that don't need computer animation or complex practicals?

Just a statue that stands still and can be reused endlessly for free?

The BBC would make EVERY show about the weeping angels if they could.

/even Top Gear

Actually, most of the Weeping Angels aren't just statue props. They're actors in heavy costumes and makeup. This is infinitely less time-consuming for filming than making a series of statue props in a variety of stop-motion positions and positioning them perfectly.

So no, the Weeping Angels cannot be "used endlessly for free" because you have makeup, facial and body props, makeup artists, costumers, and actors who have to be paid to make the Weeping Angels exist on any given episode of Doctor Who.

[static.hypable.com image 620x348]

[internationalhouseofgeek.files.wordpress.com image 833x458]

ACTING! 

/The BBC employs very talented babies

Obviously, those were props, but if you will direct yourself to the bold text above, you'll see that I didn't mean to include the babies (a new thing) that were obvious props. You know damned well I'm talking about all the others-- the female, "adult" Weeping Angels. And I really don't want to see all future Weeping Angels as the baby variety.

If you pay close attention during any of the WA episodes, you can see them twitching or moving in some scenes.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-30 01:20:07 PM

AlteredChemical: So, first, even by BBC standards, that was a damn short "season"


Thank goodness, right?! I think it was the worst of the new reboot. Writing was slack and showy, Pond storyline (which had already reached a logical endpoint) was dragged across like a dead horse, and filled with bad hollywood cliches. Not even sure I recognized this show for the last few episodes. Even the Angels were rendered hackneyed by the end of it.
 
2012-09-30 01:50:16 PM
So what was that Rolls Royce data-plate / makeshift mirror from?

It reads "Type FD 12 MK V11", "Rolls Royce Motors - Crewe England", and it has a space for a NATO stock number

The British Admiralty did try out an FD6 Mk 7 engine back in the 1960s (the evaluation report was issued in July 1963, 4 months before DW premiered. It was designed by Fodden, but Rolls could have built them under license. Alvis had a car model FD 12 before WWII (therefore even longer before NATO). Bessie was a Ford, so that's not it, either. Whatever it is, it was presumably significant.
 
2012-09-30 02:01:43 PM

Hebalo: AlteredChemical: So, first, even by BBC standards, that was a damn short "season"

Thank goodness, right?! I think it was the worst of the new reboot. Writing was slack and showy, Pond storyline (which had already reached a logical endpoint) was dragged across like a dead horse, and filled with bad hollywood cliches. Not even sure I recognized this show for the last few episodes. Even the Angels were rendered hackneyed by the end of it.


Its not a short season, they just broke up the seasons because BBC is cutting funding on everything and the 50th anniversary is coming up. The next episode is on Christmas, and the rest of the episodes pick back up in early 2013. I like this season a lot so far, they are all self contained episodes. You don't have to worry about giant cliff hangers for months this season which is nice.
 
2012-09-30 02:15:07 PM

FunkOut: Gerard Depardieu with a Prince Valiant haircut


filmfanatic.org
 
2012-09-30 03:07:41 PM

HopScotchNSoda: The Beeb cut the Doctor Who annual budget essentially in half (despite the lost revenue from DVD sales, overseas sales, more characters for the licensees to produce toys inter alia and thus more royalties / license fees paid to the BBC that doing so caused) and gave Moffat a choice: make the usual number of episodes with half the funds (thus having it look like what he himself lampooned in "Curse of the Fatal Death") or make half the episodes each year, or skip a year and make one series ("season" as we call them here) out of two years' production. He made the least bad choice from what he was given. And the episodes he gave us were all pretty darn good all around.


He could have set the TARDIS on a farm just outside Atlanta.
 
2012-09-30 03:45:26 PM

dready zim: I`m just glad amy pond has gone. Rory dying twice in the last episode at least showed that the writers know they are being formulaic with these companions and they should go.

Can`t wait for a smart cute brunette.


Three times, in the bed, off the roof, and old age at the end.

Love the 'When don't I?' line. Rory has survived more deaths than anyone but Captain Jack.
 
2012-09-30 04:26:04 PM

BronyMedic:


I wish all this pony nonsense would fall into a crack in the universe. Erase it from my memory...
 
2012-09-30 04:40:19 PM

OtherLittleGuy: HopScotchNSoda: The Beeb cut the Doctor Who annual budget essentially in half (despite the lost revenue from DVD sales, overseas sales, more characters for the licensees to produce toys inter alia and thus more royalties / license fees paid to the BBC that doing so caused) and gave Moffat a choice: make the usual number of episodes with half the funds (thus having it look like what he himself lampooned in "Curse of the Fatal Death") or make half the episodes each year, or skip a year and make one series ("season" as we call them here) out of two years' production. He made the least bad choice from what he was given. And the episodes he gave us were all pretty darn good all around.

He could have set the TARDIS on a farm just outside Atlanta.


Carl, get in the TARDIS!
 
2012-09-30 05:23:29 PM
I actually liked this episode, but I have only one quibble:

While it looks cool, there is no way the Statue of Liberty could ever be a Weeping Angel because there
is never a time when there are not eyes on it. Even at night, or in a fog.

But, wibbly wobbly and all that.
 
2012-09-30 06:03:40 PM

NeoCortex42: HopScotchNSoda: Besides, it was pretty clear that River already knew that it would work.

During that scene, I was convinced that Amy and Rory would be meeting up with past-River and raising her. I was really surprised that there was no coda showing the Ponds running into Melody in past-New York.


I wonder if that is still coming in a future River episode. Didn't Karen Gillan tweet a picture of Miss Doubtfire the crew had stuck on her trailer making fun of her old age makeup? Since we didn't see an old Amy in this episode I wonder if they shot some footage of an older Amy and Rory while they were in New York for use in a later River episode.
 
2012-09-30 06:57:54 PM
As an aside, I say "fark the 'mid-season finale' as a concept." I enjoy Doctor Who (although the overmarketing of Matt Smith and the series in general has soured me a bit on our current Doctor), but I'm tired of this ratings gimmick.
 
2012-09-30 07:01:25 PM

ODDwhun: The library is full of actual books, printed on paper. So even if Oswin somehow erased every computer in the universe, the printed books should be fine. I would imagine thought that physical books are more of a novelty though so they are probably not being read alot. Could be that River knows this is the one place that would still have info on The Doctor, and that's her real motivation for leading the expedition.


Oswin created the the First Question!
 
2012-09-30 07:28:56 PM

Coelacanth: ODDwhun: The library is full of actual books, printed on paper. So even if Oswin somehow erased every computer in the universe, the printed books should be fine. I would imagine thought that physical books are more of a novelty though so they are probably not being read alot. Could be that River knows this is the one place that would still have info on The Doctor, and that's her real motivation for leading the expedition.

Oswin created the the First Question!


No, Steve Ditko did, probably in some sort of Objectivist/Ayn Rand masturbatory fever.
 
2012-09-30 07:40:22 PM

FormlessOne: As an aside, I say "fark the 'mid-season finale' as a concept." I enjoy Doctor Who (although the overmarketing of Matt Smith and the series in general has soured me a bit on our current Doctor), but I'm tired of this ratings gimmick.


From what I understand, it is a combination of BBC cutbacks due to UK government austerity measures and Moffat wanting to move part of the 2012 budget to 2013 so he could go balls out during the 50th anniversary season.
 
2012-09-30 08:05:57 PM

The_Time_Master: OtherLittleGuy: HopScotchNSoda: The Beeb cut the Doctor Who annual budget essentially in half (despite the lost revenue from DVD sales, overseas sales, more characters for the licensees to produce toys inter alia and thus more royalties / license fees paid to the BBC that doing so caused) and gave Moffat a choice: make the usual number of episodes with half the funds (thus having it look like what he himself lampooned in "Curse of the Fatal Death") or make half the episodes each year, or skip a year and make one series ("season" as we call them here) out of two years' production. He made the least bad choice from what he was given. And the episodes he gave us were all pretty darn good all around.

He could have set the TARDIS on a farm just outside Atlanta.

Carl, get in the TARDIS!


i172.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-30 08:48:34 PM

Mad_Radhu: FormlessOne: As an aside, I say "fark the 'mid-season finale' as a concept." I enjoy Doctor Who (although the overmarketing of Matt Smith and the series in general has soured me a bit on our current Doctor), but I'm tired of this ratings gimmick.

From what I understand, it is a combination of BBC cutbacks due to UK government austerity measures and Moffat wanting to move part of the 2012 budget to 2013 so he could go balls out during the 50th anniversary season.


Has there been any news on getting some previous Doctors back for the anniversary? I knew Eccleston is a definite 'no', but haven't heard anything about any others.
 
2012-09-30 09:04:14 PM

NeoCortex42: Mad_Radhu: FormlessOne: As an aside, I say "fark the 'mid-season finale' as a concept." I enjoy Doctor Who (although the overmarketing of Matt Smith and the series in general has soured me a bit on our current Doctor), but I'm tired of this ratings gimmick.

From what I understand, it is a combination of BBC cutbacks due to UK government austerity measures and Moffat wanting to move part of the 2012 budget to 2013 so he could go balls out during the 50th anniversary season.

Has there been any news on getting some previous Doctors back for the anniversary? I knew Eccleston is a definite 'no', but haven't heard anything about any others.


McCoy and Baker 2 were the ones champing at the bit for a 50th anniversary reunion, so I think they'd be willing to give it a go.

There's been no official word on anything, but so far, all living Doctors are up for it... except Eccleston. And I think I recall reading somewhere that even he might be on board if they do a proper multi-Doctor show.
 
2012-09-30 09:07:58 PM

FirstNationalBastard: NeoCortex42: Mad_Radhu: FormlessOne: As an aside, I say "fark the 'mid-season finale' as a concept." I enjoy Doctor Who (although the overmarketing of Matt Smith and the series in general has soured me a bit on our current Doctor), but I'm tired of this ratings gimmick.

From what I understand, it is a combination of BBC cutbacks due to UK government austerity measures and Moffat wanting to move part of the 2012 budget to 2013 so he could go balls out during the 50th anniversary season.

Has there been any news on getting some previous Doctors back for the anniversary? I knew Eccleston is a definite 'no', but haven't heard anything about any others.

McCoy and Baker 2 were the ones champing at the bit for a 50th anniversary reunion, so I think they'd be willing to give it a go.

There's been no official word on anything, but so far, all living Doctors are up for it... except Eccleston. And I think I recall reading somewhere that even he might be on board if they do a proper multi-Doctor show.


I had completely written off any chance of Eccleston coming back. I'd love for him to make an appearance.
 
2012-09-30 09:34:33 PM

FirstNationalBastard:
McCoy and Baker 2 were the ones champing at the bit for a 50th anniversary reunion, so I think they'd be willing to give it a go.


Not so sure about Colin Baker. I think there's still a bit of bad blood between him and the BBC over his sacking, and during a recent convention appearance with all the other classic Doctors he quipped that he'd only do it if they offered him "a million pounds". I know when I asked Colin at his last appearance in Chicago TARDIS about appearing in the new series, he emphatically said "don't hold your breath."

/watching the "Trial and Tribulations" DVD feature about Colin's tenure right now.
 
2012-09-30 09:45:26 PM

Mad_Radhu: I wonder if that is still coming in a future River episode. Didn't Karen Gillan tweet a picture of Miss Doubtfire the crew had stuck on her trailer making fun of her old age makeup? Since we didn't see an old Amy in this episode I wonder if they shot some footage of an older Amy and Rory while they were in New York for use in a later River episode.



Amy wore the old age make-up near the end of last year, in the episode, "The Girl Who Waited". It was pretty good and gave her some much-needed character development. Old Rory's death scene and their argument when regular Rory got on the ledge at Winter Quay were rather reminiscent of old Amy's final scene in "TGWW".

I suspect that Moffat's successors will honour his plan to never let the Doctor meet up with Amy & Rory, and Caitlin Blackwood will age herself out of playing Amelia within a few years. She already looked noticeably aged just between "The Big Bang" and "Let's Kill Hitler" (although maybe that was intentionally done in order to add maturity to her when lecturing Mels). I could imagine adult River meeting up with them after a few years have passed, or if filling in some of the gap in Melody''s/Mels' story between the end of "Day of the Moon" and the first "Let's Kill Hitler" flashback. The closest I think the Doctor will ever get to them would be crossing paths at a distance like their cameo in "Closing Time".


NeoCortex42: Has there been any news on getting some previous Doctors back for the anniversary? I knew Eccleston is a definite 'no', but haven't heard anything about any others.


From what I understand, the others are up for it. I've seen McCoy & McGann both state that in interviews, Davison already demonstrated his happiness in returning, and would presumably be even more motivated now that it's even more a family tradition -- and would ensure that Tennant would come too. Tom Baker long ago stated that he regretted not coming back for "The Five Doctors". Colin Baker didn't want to leave in the first place, and kept involved with documentaries and is one of the most prolific Doctor voice actors after McGann. Indeed, other than Eccleston, I think they've each done a bunch of audio stories. Sophie Aldred was all set for her planned guest appearance that Davies had drafted for "The Sarah Jane Adventures".

McCoy was even more excited by an idea that he heard while doing the convention circuit in the U.S.: the various actors (Doctors & companions) coming back next year, but as different characters, monsters and such. Depending upon one's choice of continuity, that's precisely what will happen in the Christmas episode when Richard E. Grant plays that villain shown in the trailer. His animated "Shalka Doctor" was BBC official canon as the Ninth Doctor when those stories aired in 2003, but RTD de-canonised those stories two years later, and made Eccleston the Ninth Doctor vice the Tenth. Grant had already been the Tenth Doctor in Steven Moffat's 1999 charity special, "Curse of the Fatal Death". For that matter, the companion in Scream of the Shalka, Alison Cheney, was portrayed by Sophie Okonedo who later returned as H.M. Liz 10 (David Tennant also had a small role),
 
2012-09-30 09:47:40 PM
Sorry about the underscore above. I only meant to underscore "Ninth" and the un-underscore code got lost or something.
 
2012-09-30 10:46:50 PM

Zarquon's Flat Tire: dready zim: I`m just glad amy pond has gone. Rory dying twice in the last episode at least showed that the writers know they are being formulaic with these companions and they should go.

Can`t wait for a smart cute brunette.

Three times, in the bed, off the roof, and old age at the end.

Love the 'When don't I?' line. Rory has survived more deaths than anyone but Captain Jack.


my favorite part of this episode was Rory dying 3 times on screen. I wanted it to happen one last time and I got 3 times instead!
 
2012-09-30 10:52:09 PM

HopScotchNSoda: Mad_Radhu: I wonder if that is still coming in a future River episode. Didn't Karen Gillan tweet a picture of Miss Doubtfire the crew had stuck on her trailer making fun of her old age makeup? Since we didn't see an old Amy in this episode I wonder if they shot some footage of an older Amy and Rory while they were in New York for use in a later River episode.


Amy wore the old age make-up near the end of last year, in the episode, "The Girl Who Waited". It was pretty good and gave her some much-needed character development. Old Rory's death scene and their argument when regular Rory got on the ledge at Winter Quay were rather reminiscent of old Amy's final scene in "TGWW".

I suspect that Moffat's successors will honour his plan to never let the Doctor meet up with Amy & Rory, and Caitlin Blackwood will age herself out of playing Amelia within a few years. She already looked noticeably aged just between "The Big Bang" and "Let's Kill Hitler" (although maybe that was intentionally done in order to add maturity to her when lecturing Mels). I could imagine adult River meeting up with them after a few years have passed, or if filling in some of the gap in Melody''s/Mels' story between the end of "Day of the Moon" and the first "Let's Kill Hitler" flashback. The closest I think the Doctor will ever get to them would be crossing paths at a distance like their cameo in "Closing Time".


She posted the pic earlier this year, months after The Girl Who Waited aired in late 2011. Unless it was an unrelated in-joke with a REALLY long set up, I'm betting they shot some footage of a matronly-looking Amy for a later episode. River was very insistent that Amy go back to be with Rory, so it seems like she knows that the Pond family is going to be reunited in New York in 1970. For some reason Moffatt is saving that final reveal for a later River episode, I think.
 
2012-09-30 11:03:21 PM
Amy's and Rory's lives in NYC definitely overlap with young River of 1970, so at some point they are going to have to address that plot point. That reveal would have worked well enough in this episode, so I have to wonder the twist somehow it fits better into another River story that Moffatt has planned for later in the season.

Or maybe not. I could just be too attached to my own pet theory.
 
2012-09-30 11:12:41 PM

krej55: Zarquon's Flat Tire: dready zim: I`m just glad amy pond has gone. Rory dying twice in the last episode at least showed that the writers know they are being formulaic with these companions and they should go.

Can`t wait for a smart cute brunette.

Three times, in the bed, off the roof, and old age at the end.

Love the 'When don't I?' line. Rory has survived more deaths than anyone but Captain Jack.

my favorite part of this episode was Rory dying 3 times on screen. I wanted it to happen one last time and I got 3 times instead!


I LIKE Rory, and I enjoyed seeing him die so many times. That's his character's thing, and he owned it. The writers up and said "Rory dies a lot, but dammit he gets what he wants and that includes living out his life with a hot redhead."

Every time Rory Williams dies The Universe shiats itself and puts him back and hopes he doesn't notice.
 
2012-09-30 11:51:59 PM

Mad_Radhu: Amy's and Rory's lives in NYC definitely overlap with young River of 1970, so at some point they are going to have to address that plot point. That reveal would have worked well enough in this episode, so I have to wonder the twist somehow it fits better into another River story that Moffatt has planned for later in the season.

Or maybe not. I could just be too attached to my own pet theory.


I'm inclined to agree. River sure seemed like she knew something she couldn't let on in that scene at the end.
 
2012-10-01 12:33:59 AM

Mad_Radhu: FormlessOne: As an aside, I say "fark the 'mid-season finale' as a concept." I enjoy Doctor Who (although the overmarketing of Matt Smith and the series in general has soured me a bit on our current Doctor), but I'm tired of this ratings gimmick.

From what I understand, it is a combination of BBC cutbacks due to UK government austerity measures and Moffat wanting to move part of the 2012 budget to 2013 so he could go balls out during the 50th anniversary season.


Feh. They're not the only series to use the "mid-season finale" gimmick. Given the over-the-top silliness and tepid writing as of late, I'm afraid of what Moffat considers "balls out."
 
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