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(Mirror.co.uk)   The final ride of the Ponds in the TARDIS is finally here and the Weeping Angels are back for one more go in the mid-season finale of Doctor Who, The Angels Take Manhattan. (FYI: Muppets will not be involved in the taking of Manhattan)   (mirror.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Spiffy, Doctor Who, Manhattan, film series, ponds, Christmas episode, phone booth  
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1498 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Sep 2012 at 12:00 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-29 10:19:00 PM  

enforcerpsu: I thought it was good. My only problem is they just kind of "gave up" a lot. They made sacrifices where I thought they should have tried...something. They just brushed over so much stuff and said "nah, can't happen, fixed point in time, etc."

Overall, it was a decent, emotional, and mostly happy ending for the ponds. At the end, however, I don't understand why she just turns around and the angel is able to move forward. If the Doctor and River are looking at it...

Oh well. Goodbye Amy and Rory. Hello new companion!

I have really enjoyed this season so far. I don't know if I like it more than season 6 but I am looking forward to Christmas. More Doctor!


Like last week I think that they just don't have enough time in a single episodes to do everything they want so they try to squeeze as much in there as possible. So they have to limit their options to what they can do in a single episode.

for the ending she was blocking the doctors view of the angel. Also River knew she had to go back so she was probably just closed her eyes.

I'm really looking forward to next year. New companions always seem to breathe some fresh air into the series and I'm curious to see where they go with it now that the doctor is forgotten.
 
2012-09-29 10:23:45 PM  

Tellingthem: enforcerpsu: I thought it was good. My only problem is they just kind of "gave up" a lot. They made sacrifices where I thought they should have tried...something. They just brushed over so much stuff and said "nah, can't happen, fixed point in time, etc."

Overall, it was a decent, emotional, and mostly happy ending for the ponds. At the end, however, I don't understand why she just turns around and the angel is able to move forward. If the Doctor and River are looking at it...

Oh well. Goodbye Amy and Rory. Hello new companion!

I have really enjoyed this season so far. I don't know if I like it more than season 6 but I am looking forward to Christmas. More Doctor!

Like last week I think that they just don't have enough time in a single episodes to do everything they want so they try to squeeze as much in there as possible. So they have to limit their options to what they can do in a single episode.

for the ending she was blocking the doctors view of the angel. Also River knew she had to go back so she was probably just closed her eyes.

I'm really looking forward to next year. New companions always seem to breathe some fresh air into the series and I'm curious to see where they go with it now that the doctor is forgotten.


Ah. I didn't think about her blocking the view. Good point. Agreed, I assume River just closed her eyes a moment.
 
2012-09-29 10:24:30 PM  

demonfaerie: Spoilers!!!

I know that Rory read his death on the headstone, and that like makes it permanent and all that, but they managed to change the future so why couldn't they do it again with Rory? Why did they even remotely try before Amy let the angel touch him? They don't know for sure he got sent back to 1938 again or what, unless they read the copyright on the book. River will be able to see them again, but not the Doctor? That seems a little far fetched for that reason. I still thought it was a good ending for them, but I got attached to Rory's dad, and to know he won't see his son again breaks my heart.


The fact that River can get to them but the Doctor can't, suggests that their shared DNA might provide the requisite loophole. If it's not specifically because of her and Amy's presumably identical mtDNA, then she could conceivably take her grandparents to see their children, though probably not Rory's stepfather. Her vortex manipulator can accommodate a few people at a time, as shown in "The Sound of Drums" and "Exit Wounds", and implied in "A Good Man Goes to War."

Irrespective of that, I suppose that River would have to be the one to break the news to Brian if they want it to be gentle. There's no way that the Doctor could do it. The instant he showed up to see Brian, and Amy & Rory weren't there, Rory would know. It's like a military wife/parent (or a cop's or fireman's wife/parent) opening her front door to find a couple of men in uniform standing there.
 
2012-09-29 10:25:28 PM  
Well, that's done with. Time for a bright new era, and let's never speak of this one again.


Rwa2play:

Hmmmm...interesting. Perhaps maybe a regeneration of River Song is in the offing~?

/oops, SPOILERS~!


That was what I thought. He just gave her back a regeneration or something. Of course, since he has 507 regenerations now, what's one gone?
 
2012-09-29 10:34:32 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Well, that's done with. Time for a bright new era, and let's never speak of this one again.


Rwa2play:

Hmmmm...interesting. Perhaps maybe a regeneration of River Song is in the offing~?

/oops, SPOILERS~!

That was what I thought. He just gave her back a regeneration or something. Of course, since he has 507 regenerations now, what's one gone?


Welp, time to crank out a theory I've been thinking about the Doctor ever since the series re-started: I think he's on his second cycle of regenerations. Therefore, Chris Eccleston's Doctor was #1, Tennant was #2, and Smith is now #3.

IIRC, way back at the end of season 3 (28 if we count both series as one), didn't the Master say something to the effect that his own regeneration cycle being re-started on the condition that he would aid the rest of the Time Lords against the Daleks in the Time War? If we assume this is true, then that means the Time Lords must of given the Doctor the same deal when they asked him to join. Ergo, his own regeneration cycle was restarted as well.

Just a thought.
 
2012-09-29 10:43:14 PM  

Rwa2play: FirstNationalBastard: Well, that's done with. Time for a bright new era, and let's never speak of this one again.


Rwa2play:

Hmmmm...interesting. Perhaps maybe a regeneration of River Song is in the offing~?

/oops, SPOILERS~!

That was what I thought. He just gave her back a regeneration or something. Of course, since he has 507 regenerations now, what's one gone?

Welp, time to crank out a theory I've been thinking about the Doctor ever since the series re-started: I think he's on his second cycle of regenerations. Therefore, Chris Eccleston's Doctor was #1, Tennant was #2, and Smith is now #3.

IIRC, way back at the end of season 3 (28 if we count both series as one), didn't the Master say something to the effect that his own regeneration cycle being re-started on the condition that he would aid the rest of the Time Lords against the Daleks in the Time War? If we assume this is true, then that means the Time Lords must of given the Doctor the same deal when they asked him to join. Ergo, his own regeneration cycle was restarted as well.

Just a thought.


While it makes sense, I don't think the Doctor would have held the Time Lords up for new regenerations to fight in the Time War.

However, I do think he benefited from the death of the time lords by getting all of their regenerations, making the joke number of 507 from the Sarah Jane Adventures plausible.

Or, if that didn't happen, he got a new set of 10 or so from Melody Pond Song Malone, which would have been the start of a new cycle for him and allows them to skirt the 13 and out number when the time comes.
 
2012-09-29 10:45:39 PM  
Spoilers

Spoilers

Spoilers


I quite loved that episode, one of the best. The ending was a bit odd, and I'm going to blame Matt Smith on that one. His acting was pretty damn horrible on the last graveyard scene. Still, it was a great ending for the Ponds (err, I guess old fashion standards made her end up taking his last name.) I think a Farker predicted that one.

I wish they had shown a bit more post-doc Ponds, but other than that, great stuff!

Damn tiny season.
 
2012-09-29 10:53:19 PM  
Spoilers


Spoilers

Spoilers


So, first, even by BBC standards, that was a damn short "season"

Did the Ponds just go back to that time prison hotel thing then? How?

Probably nitpicking, but still...

Who buried them then?
 
2012-09-29 10:56:08 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Rwa2play: FirstNationalBastard: Well, that's done with. Time for a bright new era, and let's never speak of this one again.


Rwa2play:

Hmmmm...interesting. Perhaps maybe a regeneration of River Song is in the offing~?

/oops, SPOILERS~!

That was what I thought. He just gave her back a regeneration or something. Of course, since he has 507 regenerations now, what's one gone?

Welp, time to crank out a theory I've been thinking about the Doctor ever since the series re-started: I think he's on his second cycle of regenerations. Therefore, Chris Eccleston's Doctor was #1, Tennant was #2, and Smith is now #3.

IIRC, way back at the end of season 3 (28 if we count both series as one), didn't the Master say something to the effect that his own regeneration cycle being re-started on the condition that he would aid the rest of the Time Lords against the Daleks in the Time War? If we assume this is true, then that means the Time Lords must of given the Doctor the same deal when they asked him to join. Ergo, his own regeneration cycle was restarted as well.

Just a thought.

While it makes sense, I don't think the Doctor would have held the Time Lords up for new regenerations to fight in the Time War.


As I stated, it would've been the carrot the Time Lords would've offered the Doctor in order to join them. Not the Doctor asking or demanding it in order to join.

However, I do think he benefited from the death of the time lords by getting all of their regenerations, making the joke number of 507 from the Sarah Jane Adventures plausible.

Yeah but that sounds like something out of "Highlander." That's just a lazy-ass throwaway explanation so I don't buy that crap.

Or, if that didn't happen, he got a new set of 10 or so from Melody Pond Song Malone, which would have been the start of a new cycle for him and allows them to skirt the 13 and out number when the time comes.

I'll take a shot in the dark here: Alex Kingston's last appearance as River Song will involve her on the verge of death. The Doctor will "return the favor" and give her her regenerations back and then some. So the River we meet in "Silence in the Library" might, just might be a Melody 1/2 version like the Doctor that went with Rose in the alternate dimension at the end of "Journey's End." While the real one will regenerate...sometime soon.
 
2012-09-29 10:59:57 PM  
Rory pulls off his final awesome act in the end:
SPOILERS:

AMELIA WILLIAMS. RORY>POND

END SPOILERS
 
2012-09-29 11:05:13 PM  

HopScotchNSoda: demonfaerie: Spoilers!!!

I know that Rory read his death on the headstone, and that like makes it permanent and all that, but they managed to change the future so why couldn't they do it again with Rory? Why did they even remotely try before Amy let the angel touch him? They don't know for sure he got sent back to 1938 again or what, unless they read the copyright on the book. River will be able to see them again, but not the Doctor? That seems a little far fetched for that reason. I still thought it was a good ending for them, but I got attached to Rory's dad, and to know he won't see his son again breaks my heart.

The fact that River can get to them but the Doctor can't, suggests that their shared DNA might provide the requisite loophole. If it's not specifically because of her and Amy's presumably identical mtDNA, then she could conceivably take her grandparents to see their children, though probably not Rory's stepfather. Her vortex manipulator can accommodate a few people at a time, as shown in "The Sound of Drums" and "Exit Wounds", and implied in "A Good Man Goes to War."

Irrespective of that, I suppose that River would have to be the one to break the news to Brian if they want it to be gentle. There's no way that the Doctor could do it. The instant he showed up to see Brian, and Amy & Rory weren't there, Rory would know. It's like a military wife/parent (or a cop's or fireman's wife/parent) opening her front door to find a couple of men in uniform standing there.


In the beginning, she managed to use the manipulator to get the TARDIS in year 1938, so if that was a way to get into a fixed point of time, wouldn't that mean they could do that again? It would make more sense with that close of a call they could go back to their timeline and never travel again, because of the angels. It would make sense to have River tell Brian on what happened to them, but we don't know if he knows that Rory, and Amy has a kid, let alone that kid is an adult.

Side note, I kind of like how the Doctor cares about what he looks like when he knows River is going to be around. Him knowing, and finally marrying River makes him more of a man than a child. He seems less clueless of romance now.
 
2012-09-29 11:08:46 PM  

BarryJV: ArcadianRefugee: Or is it 1938 (and not NYC) that's verboten? Land in '39 and pick him up; what's another year to a man who's waited 2000?

I don't get it.


He could go back to 1940 or so and pick them up a few years later except...

He saw their graves, that means that to collect them is a paradox and New York can't take another paradox.


He saw a headstone, their graves might be filled with jellybabies for all we know. It's certainly possible that Amy and Rory could take a steamer back to England and catch up with the Doctor when he meets Churchill and the Daleks during the Blitz.

However, to make it impossible for him to take them back home something needs to be done to THEM..... make them so full of temporal energy from the multiple paradoxes that if either of them entered the timestream again they'd blow the universe apart.
 
2012-09-29 11:09:26 PM  

AlteredChemical: Spoilers


Spoilers

Spoilers


So, first, even by BBC standards, that was a damn short "season"


This was only the first half of the season.

The Christmas special is episode #6, and the final 8 episodes of the season are coming in 2013.
 
2012-09-29 11:15:56 PM  
It's shows like this that make me damn glad to have a selective focus when it comes to detail. Watching Criminal Minds; by all means try to deduce the unsub's motivations. Watching Doctor Who; unplug and enjoy the ride.

The Doctor cannot see or save Amy and Rory because he says he can't. Good enough for mJESUS CHRIST TOPLESS OZWIN? I NEED A LOAF OF BREAD, WATER, AND SOME ASTROGLIDE
 
2012-09-29 11:18:44 PM  
Well, that chapter's done. What I hope to see by the end of the 50th anniversary:

- the Doctor visits feudal Japan or 1300s Mali
- Oswin in high heels (instead of Chuck Taylors) to go with that red one-piece
- the Mandrels get an animation/costume revamp that makes them more scary/awesome AND gives them a plotline more heartbreaking in relation to their thematic backstory
- the Doctor vists reenactments of fictional storylines he believes to be real-life events acted out by people who read/listened to them (a shout out to Whovian or fill-in-the blank fandom
-the Doctor swapping historical figures who look like each other (for example: Mark Twain subbing in for Edvard Grieg)
 
2012-09-29 11:25:58 PM  

Wasn't Looking at his Neck: Well, that chapter's done. What I hope to see by the end of the 50th anniversary:

- the Doctor visits feudal Japan or 1300s Mali
- Oswin in high heels (instead of Chuck Taylors) to go with that red one-piece
- the Mandrels get an animation/costume revamp that makes them more scary/awesome AND gives them a plotline more heartbreaking in relation to their thematic backstory
- the Doctor vists reenactments of fictional storylines he believes to be real-life events acted out by people who read/listened to them (a shout out to Whovian or fill-in-the blank fandom
-the Doctor swapping historical figures who look like each other (for example: Mark Twain subbing in for Edvard Grieg)


How about: A modern-day version of the opening credits from the first Doctor Who ep in 1963. Not the current one which I really hate.

/Always liked the ones from the first (new) eps onwards: to refresh your memory
//Current one is too over the top for me
 
2012-09-29 11:27:02 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: TheManofPA: In honor of Tellingthem giving me TF for a month in the first DW thread (as my month expires tomorrow), I will leave you farkers with this great news.

If you want to see how Oswin "took off her Dalek casing" for a BBC drama, the Sun is there with a NSFW picture. I'm not at home so I can't link, but feel free to steal my phrasing for a greenlight. If no one can find it, I'll post when I'm home.

All I ask is that in honor of Tellingthem's gift, that thread or this have Daleks photoshopped with the words EJACULATE, EJACULATE. I think that shall be a noble tribute.

NSFW Linked.


Finally, I clicked:

creativejamie.files.wordpress.com

"Oh my God..."

/Sorry, no GIS results for the Sports Illustrated scene
 
2012-09-29 11:29:57 PM  

Rwa2play: Wasn't Looking at his Neck: Well, that chapter's done. What I hope to see by the end of the 50th anniversary:

- the Doctor visits feudal Japan or 1300s Mali
- Oswin in high heels (instead of Chuck Taylors) to go with that red one-piece
- the Mandrels get an animation/costume revamp that makes them more scary/awesome AND gives them a plotline more heartbreaking in relation to their thematic backstory
- the Doctor vists reenactments of fictional storylines he believes to be real-life events acted out by people who read/listened to them (a shout out to Whovian or fill-in-the blank fandom
-the Doctor swapping historical figures who look like each other (for example: Mark Twain subbing in for Edvard Grieg)

How about: A modern-day version of the opening credits from the first Doctor Who ep in 1963. Not the current one which I really hate.

/Always liked the ones from the first (new) eps onwards: to refresh your memory
//Current one is too over the top for me


Or, a nice compromise... the howlaround effects into a modern (yet not so over the top) vortex.

...and something closer to the classic theme than the techno version used today.
 
2012-09-29 11:30:08 PM  

Wasn't Looking at his Neck: Well, that chapter's done. What I hope to see by the end of the 50th anniversary:

- the Doctor visits feudal Japan or 1300s Mali
- Oswin in high heels (instead of Chuck Taylors) to go with that red one-piece
- the Mandrels get an animation/costume revamp that makes them more scary/awesome AND gives them a plotline more heartbreaking in relation to their thematic backstory
- the Doctor vists reenactments of fictional storylines he believes to be real-life events acted out by people who read/listened to them (a shout out to Whovian or fill-in-the blank fandom
-the Doctor swapping historical figures who look like each other (for example: Mark Twain subbing in for Edvard Grieg)


I'd like to see the Doctor in feudal Japan, it would make for an interesting story.
 
2012-09-29 11:31:22 PM  

Wasn't Looking at his Neck:
-the Doctor swapping historical figures who look like each other (for example: Mark Twain subbing in for Edvard Grieg)


That amuses me since my father looks like both.
 
2012-09-29 11:31:22 PM  
Thank gawd... Pond's are finally gone. If they would just get rid of Matt Smith, the show would be a lot better.
 
2012-09-29 11:36:09 PM  

diaphoresis: Thank gawd... Pond's are finally gone. If they would just get rid of Matt Smith, the show would be a lot better.


Whats wrong with Smith? He is an amazing Doctor imo. I don't think there is a bad Doctor, but sometimes the writing can ruin them. The last specials with Tennant made me annoyed. At least with Smith, imo he is very good at portraying drastic emotions and tantrums of an old man and child. That is how the Doctor is, he can be a kid inside exploring time and space, but from his age he can be get off my lawn cranky old man. Smith portrays that perfectly.
 
2012-09-29 11:37:59 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: Rwa2play: Wasn't Looking at his Neck: Well, that chapter's done. What I hope to see by the end of the 50th anniversary:

- the Doctor visits feudal Japan or 1300s Mali
- Oswin in high heels (instead of Chuck Taylors) to go with that red one-piece
- the Mandrels get an animation/costume revamp that makes them more scary/awesome AND gives them a plotline more heartbreaking in relation to their thematic backstory
- the Doctor vists reenactments of fictional storylines he believes to be real-life events acted out by people who read/listened to them (a shout out to Whovian or fill-in-the blank fandom
-the Doctor swapping historical figures who look like each other (for example: Mark Twain subbing in for Edvard Grieg)

How about: A modern-day version of the opening credits from the first Doctor Who ep in 1963. Not the current one which I really hate.

/Always liked the ones from the first (new) eps onwards: to refresh your memory
//Current one is too over the top for me

Or, a nice compromise... the howlaround effects into a modern (yet not so over the top) vortex.

...and something closer to the classic theme than the techno version used today.


The opening credits on the last full season with Tennant sucked however, hated the music. The one for Eccleston's only season and the first couple of seasons for David was the best one: respectful to the theme but modernizing it...and the time vortex ruled too.
 
2012-09-29 11:39:12 PM  

Rwa2play: Of course, they'll know everything that'll happen from 1938 onwards until their deaths.


It's like the lottery ticket that the Doctor gave to Donna for her wedding. They won't want for anything material. On the other hand, why did Billy Shipton die in a non-private room in an NHS facility? Meh, maybe the Doctor had scared him so much about the Blinovich Limitation Effect and not contacting Sally Sparrow until after the point when his younger self disappeared, that he was afraid to use his knowledge for investments and gambling. Amy, however, knows herself to be essentially immune (even touched herself in "Big Bang", "Time" and "Good Night" without so much as a spark.


Also, re: the gravestone...does that mean that Amy's 5 years older than Rory or that Amy would live on 5 more years until her death?

I presume she lived longer. Women generally tend to do so.

OK, 87. Let's assume, arguendo, that the age accurately reflects their ages at death; and that they are 33 in the episode (31 in "Dinosaurs", a year went by in "Power of Three" from Earth's perspective and longer than that from their's; and a year could easily gone by between them [including "Town Called Mercy"] and since "Power of Three"; plus Amy's got wrinkles near her eyes, and her eyes are starting to weaken). So that's ~55 years of her life to account for.

Sally's friend Kathy went back 87 years; the Doctor, Martha, and Billy went back 39 years; Rory went back 74 years the first time; the Doctor speculated that the Angels planned to send Rory back a further 30-40 years when they were at Winter Quay. The typewriter was from the early 20th century (and could have been depicted anytime thereafter), and Amy's fingers did not look weak and wrinkled when pounding away at on it. The grave stone's smooth face,sharp simple engraving, and lack of substantial weathering suggested that they died sometime in the latter half of the 20th century.

If the Angels had a hard-on for 1938, then that puts Amy's death ''c'' 1993, a year before she unknowingly met the Doctor & her adult self, and two years before the Doctor crashed the TARDIS into her garden. It also means that she would have been 63 (probably not 64 since we're talking January) when newly re-infantised Melody needed her mother's (or her own) help.
 
2012-09-29 11:40:03 PM  
I sorta get why the Doctor can't bring them back, but not sure I get why he can't go and visit them, other then moving on in the series.

Also wonder if it's dumb luck Amy appears to go to the same point in time as Rory or can the Angles really control that and this particularly one sorta felt bad for Amy.

And as a finally note...FARK YOU BBC or who ever bright idea for the last few season to have 5 or so episodes, wait a few months, do a Christmas special, then wait another few months to finish the series. Dumbest idea EVER.
 
2012-09-29 11:41:09 PM  

demonfaerie: diaphoresis: Thank gawd... Pond's are finally gone. If they would just get rid of Matt Smith, the show would be a lot better.

Whats wrong with Smith? He is an amazing Doctor imo. I don't think there is a bad Doctor, but sometimes the writing can ruin them. The last specials with Tennant made me annoyed. At least with Smith, imo he is very good at portraying drastic emotions and tantrums of an old man and child. That is how the Doctor is, he can be a kid inside exploring time and space, but from his age he can be get off my lawn cranky old man. Smith portrays that perfectly.


We have different definitions of 'perfectly'. My opinion is no more or no less valid than yours... Matt just isn't cutting it for me.

/Looking forward to the next Doctor
 
2012-09-29 11:42:33 PM  

demonfaerie: diaphoresis: Thank gawd... Pond's are finally gone. If they would just get rid of Matt Smith, the show would be a lot better.

Whats wrong with Smith? He is an amazing Doctor imo. I don't think there is a bad Doctor, but sometimes the writing can ruin them. The last specials with Tennant made me annoyed. At least with Smith, imo he is very good at portraying drastic emotions and tantrums of an old man and child. That is how the Doctor is, he can be a kid inside exploring time and space, but from his age he can be get off my lawn cranky old man. Smith portrays that perfectly.


Personally, I feel Smith and the Doctor have been overshadowed the last two seasons, and the 11th Doctor's run is finally beginning and we can see what he can do now that it won't be ALL POND, ALL THE TIME.
 
2012-09-29 11:45:28 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: demonfaerie: diaphoresis: Thank gawd... Pond's are finally gone. If they would just get rid of Matt Smith, the show would be a lot better.

Whats wrong with Smith? He is an amazing Doctor imo. I don't think there is a bad Doctor, but sometimes the writing can ruin them. The last specials with Tennant made me annoyed. At least with Smith, imo he is very good at portraying drastic emotions and tantrums of an old man and child. That is how the Doctor is, he can be a kid inside exploring time and space, but from his age he can be get off my lawn cranky old man. Smith portrays that perfectly.

Personally, I feel Smith and the Doctor have been overshadowed the last two seasons, and the 11th Doctor's run is finally beginning and we can see what he can do now that it won't be ALL POND, ALL THE TIME.


Yeah I can kind of agree with that. I do enjoy the Ponds, but they did start to over shadow him. Those two grew some much over the series that they almost became equals to the Doctor. I would like to see an entire episode of just the Doctor and River, and not just the Doctor running into her all the time. I know some people are getting tired of her, but she just comes and goes. Seeing her travel with the Doctor alone could be interesting at least just once.
 
2012-09-29 11:45:36 PM  

dennysgod: I sorta get why the Doctor can't bring them back, but not sure I get why he can't go and visit them, other then moving on in the series.

Also wonder if it's dumb luck Amy appears to go to the same point in time as Rory or can the Angles really control that and this particularly one sorta felt bad for Amy.

.


I thought they clearly established that each angel sends people back to a specific point in time... the same angel sent the Doctor, Martha, and police guy back to pretty much the same point in 1969. So why wouldn't a single angel, touching two people just seconds apart, send them both back to roughly the same point in time?
 
2012-09-29 11:50:39 PM  
So, now that we have finished their run, the highlight of the Williams is definitely the Lone Centurian opening. That was just a brilliant scene. Also, the opening of series 6 with the holy crap they killed the Doctor was well played (just the scene, not whether or not the payoff worked)
 
2012-09-29 11:56:33 PM  

whyaduck: After all, River had to deliver the manuscript and pass on advice about the afterword somehow.


More or less explained at the near the beginning of the episode - River has the time vortex manipulator wristwatch, not as powerful (a "space hopper" to the Doctor's "sports car"), but subtler, allowing her to slip through the "cracks" that the Tardis can't get through.

On the whole, it was a decent episode and an emotionally satisfying (and happy in a roundabout way) ending to the Ponds' story (unlike the Donna resolution which still makes me a little angry),
 
2012-09-30 12:03:41 AM  

dennysgod: FARK YOU BBC or who ever bright idea for the last few season to have 5 or so episodes, wait a few months, do a Christmas special, then wait another few months to finish the series. Dumbest idea EVER.


'Tis no where near as dumb as the 2009 plan of having a few episodes -- and all spread out unpredictably. This way, we got into the show, begrudgingly accepted it as a five-episode miniseries, knew the dates of all airings and made a point to watch. The Christmas episode comes at Christmas, like always.

The Beeb cut the Doctor Who annual budget essentially in half (despite the lost revenue from DVD sales, overseas sales, more characters for the licensees to produce toys inter alia and thus more royalties / license fees paid to the BBC that doing so caused) and gave Moffat a choice: make the usual number of episodes with half the funds (thus having it look like what he himself lampooned in "Curse of the Fatal Death") or make half the episodes each year, or skip a year and make one series ("season" as we call them here) out of two years' production. He made the least bad choice from what he was given. And the episodes he gave us were all pretty darn good all around.
 
2012-09-30 12:04:31 AM  
Slight spoilers:


My room got really dusty during that episode. I'm really glad that Rory and Amy get a good ending instead of a tragic one. The roof top scene was the best scene of the entire season.
 
2012-09-30 12:16:05 AM  

Luthien's Tempest: ArcadianRefugee: ...

/end

Spoilers: Perhaps he is worried about creating a paradox, and that just by him being in New York again, that could cause one? He said that another paradox could destroy New York, so perhaps that is why he is worried? I'm not sure, either. I mean, honestly, if River can visit her parents, why can't the Doctor visit them, too, if he's careful (not that I really think that the Doctor is capable of being careful)?

Or if there is no longer a building that they must live in, housed by the Angels, perhaps he could just get them a message (through River, of course) to leave NYC, and then meet them somewhere else, somewhere that the addition of a paradox will not lead to massive destruction and a bit of a massacre.

I understand that they wanted to come up with a way for the Ponds to go away forever - after all, if they didn't, then why wouldn't they just keep doing the on-again off-again with the Doctor until they are too old to do so? Part of me would just be happier if they could just live in their own time, though.

And I don't think they ever showed when Amy and Rory went to visit themselves near the drill, did they?


/Spoilers


Actually, that would've been far more dramatic -- that the Ponds were simply too old to keep going with the Doctor. The companion departures for Doctor Who have, for the most part, felt forced with wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff. It seems unnecessary considering the overall narrative and the opportunities that are already organically available.

Now granted I've only watched the revamped, modern Who and not classic Who.
 
2012-09-30 12:20:06 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: dennysgod: FARK YOU BBC or who ever bright idea for the last few season to have 5 or so episodes, wait a few months, do a Christmas special, then wait another few months to finish the series. Dumbest idea EVER.

'Tis no where near as dumb as the 2009 plan of having a few episodes -- and all spread out unpredictably. This way, we got into the show, begrudgingly accepted it as a five-episode miniseries, knew the dates of all airings and made a point to watch. The Christmas episode comes at Christmas, like always.

The Beeb cut the Doctor Who annual budget essentially in half (despite the lost revenue from DVD sales, overseas sales, more characters for the licensees to produce toys inter alia and thus more royalties / license fees paid to the BBC that doing so caused) and gave Moffat a choice: make the usual number of episodes with half the funds (thus having it look like what he himself lampooned in "Curse of the Fatal Death") or make half the episodes each year, or skip a year and make one series ("season" as we call them here) out of two years' production. He made the least bad choice from what he was given. And the episodes he gave us were all pretty darn good all around.


I appreciate the lesser of two evils, but I think I'd rather have all the episode clumped together better even if a smaller number of them.
 
2012-09-30 12:26:17 AM  
My favorite line ever.

Rory: When don't I?
 
2012-09-30 12:32:19 AM  
Damn good ep.

/Why is my room so dusty?
 
2012-09-30 12:39:11 AM  
The Ponds should have been sent out more like Adric.

If we never see the weeping angels again it will be too soon.

The greatest DW opening theme OF ALL TIME 
(second place: the opening from the leaked, non-aired version of "Rose" if you can find it)

/please just give us back The Master and Sontarans both de-pussified.
 
2012-09-30 12:48:54 AM  

Keyser_Soze_Death:
The greatest DW opening theme OF ALL TIME 
(second place: the opening from the leaked, non-aired version of "Rose" if you can find it)



Wasn't that just a stereo remix of the classic Troughton/Pertwee/Baker 1 theme?
 
2012-09-30 12:56:48 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: NeoCortex42: So, are we making odds on how the Ponds leave the show?

Possibilities:
1) Amy dies, Rory lives
2) Rory dies, Amy lives
3) Amy and Rory get attacked by the Angels and sent back in time, and stay there
4) Amy and Rory simply decide to stop traveling

My money is on (3). Other guesses I'm missing?

5) Amy and Rory wake up as guests of Edwina and Patsy.


Holy Crap that would have been awesome.

As it is, the SO is biatching about the, well, episodic nature of this season... to which I replied "well, from what I've been reading online, lots of the "long time' Dr Who fans were biatching about the story arcs Moffatt was doing so he said in some interview he was going to make more of this season stand-alone episodes"...

His reply was "screw that, I'm a long term Dr Who fan, and this sucks".

Eh, probably fair. That said, I wonder how much of a biatch it would be to go as a Weeping Angel for Halloween.

/still, GODDAMMIT RORY WHY THE F--K DIDN'T YOU JUST GO STRAIGHT INTO THE GODDAMN TARDIS
//there's stone ALL THE F--K AROUND YOU F--KERS
///headdesk
////oh, well, what the hell
 
2012-09-30 01:02:55 AM  

dennysgod: I sorta get why the Doctor can't bring them back, but not sure I get why he can't go and visit them, other then moving on in the series.


Well, let's face it, that is the reason. Moffat doesn't want a lingering Rose-type situation. He also wanted something more original than them leaving and going off on their way like the majority of companions.

The theme throughout "Pond Life" and the five regular episodes this year was that the Doctor can't break his Williams habit - and they can't give him up -- in order to give significance and drama to their final departure. He wants to be with them. They are his only family as far as he knows, actual family. Not only does Amy consider him her best friend, but he's married to their daughter. He hasn't been related to a companion since Susan and he hasn't seen her in hundreds of years. He bought them a townhouse and sports car. Rory's dad Brian travelled with him, sat aboard the stationary TARDIS for four days, and turned down his invitation to be a proper companion; Brian's at least a de facto companion if not an official one. They are the only family in which three consecutive generations have all travelled or even continually closely interacted with him,* and they did so more-or-less concurrently. At the same time, they lost (largely because of him) most of their old family and friends. They lost their baby to be a weapon against him; they lost their best mate when she revealed herself as their long lost daughter and they left her in a hospital to recover from her ordeal; they lost routine interaction with their other friends and most of their family when the Doctor bought them a townhouse in London instead of Leadworth. Now they've lost him and all of their new friends and remaining family, aside from continued periodic visits from Melody/River.

* Sylvia Noble kept her distance; he only met Ace's mum (Kathleen's daughter) in passing when she was an infant; he's never met Kate's son Gordon as far as we know; he may have met Sarah Jane's foster mother, Aunt Lavinia, if he dropped off K9 himself, but he didn't know her.

Moffat also made use of an unexpected last-minute opportunity last year to put out the concept that some deaths or partings or whatever, are permanent even from the Doctor's perspective. In one minute, the Doctor went from casually considering running off with his fiancée Elizabeth I long before her 1603 death, to grieving the loss of Sir Alistair and being unable to take him on his road trip to Utah because he died in early 2011.


FirstNationalBastard: Also wonder if it's dumb luck Amy appears to go to the same point in time as Rory or can the Angles really control that and this particularly one sorta felt bad for Amy.

I thought they clearly established that each angel sends people back to a specific point in time... the same angel sent the Doctor, Martha, and police guy back to pretty much the same point in 1969. So why wouldn't a single angel, touching two people just seconds apart, send them both back to roughly the same point in time?


Indeed. Martha and the Doctor were sent back weeks before Billy was, and arrived weeks before he did.

Besides, it was pretty clear that River already knew that it would work.
 
2012-09-30 01:04:13 AM  

FirstNationalBastard: Keyser_Soze_Death:
The greatest DW opening theme OF ALL TIME 
(second place: the opening from the leaked, non-aired version of "Rose" if you can find it)

Wasn't that just a stereo remix of the classic Troughton/Pertwee/Baker 1 theme?


That's the Peter Howell arrangement from the Baker/Davidson period (1980-85).
 
2012-09-30 01:11:34 AM  

OtherLittleGuy: 5) Amy and Rory wake up as guests of Edwina and Patsy.


Edwina would not present a problem. Patsy and Saffy, however...
 
2012-09-30 01:11:57 AM  

diaphoresis: demonfaerie: diaphoresis: Thank gawd... Pond's are finally gone. If they would just get rid of Matt Smith, the show would be a lot better.

Whats wrong with Smith? He is an amazing Doctor imo. I don't think there is a bad Doctor, but sometimes the writing can ruin them. The last specials with Tennant made me annoyed. At least with Smith, imo he is very good at portraying drastic emotions and tantrums of an old man and child. That is how the Doctor is, he can be a kid inside exploring time and space, but from his age he can be get off my lawn cranky old man. Smith portrays that perfectly.

We have different definitions of 'perfectly'. My opinion is no more or no less valid than yours... Matt just isn't cutting it for me.

/Looking forward to the next Doctor


True, and yet, with the SO watching goddamn near every Doctor there was (thanks, Netflix and Amazon) and me catching bits and pieces of each*, Smith is the one who finally got me to start watching.

I've been going backwards and while there are some f--king awesome episodes in Tennant's reign - maybe even more so than Smith - goddamn does that man do the wide-open-eyes-reaction-shot A LOT. Maybe it's more apparent when you watch them in quick succession, but godDAMN.

/that said, although I started with Amy, I've kinda got Donna as my favorite companion at this point

* sucked that I knew Doctor-didn't-really-die and who-River-really-was before I started watching, just thanks to the bits-and-pieces I jumped in on. First season I'm watching as it unfolds, and maybe it's harkening back to my X-Files watching while I was younger but I'm kinda pining for a decent overreaching story arc right now myself. Even one as blatant as a time crack in a wall. River is doing well to fill that gap, though I know it can't last much longer.
 
2012-09-30 01:13:10 AM  

Keyser_Soze_Death: FirstNationalBastard: Keyser_Soze_Death:
The greatest DW opening theme OF ALL TIME 
(second place: the opening from the leaked, non-aired version of "Rose" if you can find it)

Wasn't that just a stereo remix of the classic Troughton/Pertwee/Baker 1 theme?

That's the Peter Howell arrangement from the Baker/Davidson period (1980-85).


This...and I actually like this one.
 
2012-09-30 01:14:23 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: OtherLittleGuy: 5) Amy and Rory wake up as guests of Edwina and Patsy.

Edwina would not present a problem. Patsy and Saffy, however...


And that was written by Moffat, for what it's worth.
 
2012-09-30 01:17:55 AM  

HopScotchNSoda: HopScotchNSoda: OtherLittleGuy: 5) Amy and Rory wake up as guests of Edwina and Patsy.

Edwina would not present a problem. Patsy and Saffy, however...

And that was written by Moffat, for what it's worth.


Is that f--king Rowan Atkinson...

Oh man.

From now on, obligatory for any Rowan Atkinson mention
 
2012-09-30 01:23:00 AM  
Some thoughts...there were flickering lights again. Granted that is an angel calling card, but it's still possible that means something else.

Second, I believe the Doctor may have indeed given River more than just a quick heal of the wrist; I think he gave her a full regeneration. Why? Because knowing she is "Professor Song" now, and knowing that she's very close to Silence in the Library, he put his plan in motion. He clearly had been planning, even back when Silence first came out - the sonic, and knowing his earlier self would find the recording. We never saw River's body. We know her mind was loaded into the simulated reality, but it's possible that the Doctor, knowing that was going to happen and knowing he could give her enough renegeration energy for her body to heal in time, is now prepared, and will take her regenerated body and reinsert her mind.

This would allow for a new River Song. Nothing against Alex Kingston, she's been absolutely wonderful, but I really don't think the Doctor can just allow River to live as a memory in a computer bank.

Anyway, much better episode than the previous three. The ending was weak - the could have just had Amy and Rory decide they are done and leave the Doctor, but the rest of the episode was good and suitably timey wimey.
 
2012-09-30 01:40:01 AM  
You know, as much as I enjoyed that episode, I'm beginning to thing the Stephen Moffat Doctor Who Bible must look something like this:

Rule #1 is 100% true all of the time

Rule #2 is to ignore Rule #1 whenever possible

"Don't Blink! Blink and your dead!" *


* Unless the plot requires you to blink or turn away in which case, feel free to do so! But otherwise, you're dead! Or displaced in time! Or you get a Weeping Angel in your eyeball! Or... or... you're just moved slightly! Look, just stop asking so many questions!
 
2012-09-30 01:42:22 AM  

StreetlightInTheGhetto: HopScotchNSoda: HopScotchNSoda: OtherLittleGuy: 5) Amy and Rory wake up as guests of Edwina and Patsy.

Edwina would not present a problem. Patsy and Saffy, however...
And that was written by Moffat, for what it's worth.

Is that f--king Rowan Atkinson...
Oh man.


Yes, and later is the villain from the brief trailer for the forthcoming Christmas special, Richard E. Grant (who was also the voice of the "Shalka Doctor").

The Daleks' voices were provided by original Dalek voice actor, Roy Skelton. Also in the special were Jonathan Pryce, Joanna Lumley, Hugh Grant, Jim Broadbent and, as you saw, Julia Sawalha.
 
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