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(Guardian)   The Greek police have apparently just given up and are sending crime victims to the neo-Nazis for protection now. There's no way this could turn out bad   (guardian.co.uk ) divider line
    More: Scary, Greek Police, neo-Nazis, crime victim, protections  
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6449 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Sep 2012 at 4:00 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-29 04:04:40 AM  
ttt
 
2012-09-29 04:06:10 AM  
Land of Rape and Honey?

I found it odd that the only mention in the newspaper (what's a newspaper? right?) of the riots in Greece and the huge protests in Spain was a small article in the Business section.
 
2012-09-29 04:07:52 AM  
Send him to the Greek?
 
2012-09-29 04:09:30 AM  
eu.greekreporter.com
Uhhhh is...uh this dude evil? I can't quite.....I think.......I think he's evil...Just something......
 
2012-09-29 04:13:56 AM  
somethings not right. all that yogurt money has to be going somewhere.
 
2012-09-29 04:17:21 AM  

Acharne: [eu.greekreporter.com image 592x404]
Uhhhh is...uh this dude evil? I can't quite.....I think.......I think he's evil...Just something......

 


images4.wikia.nocookie.net
 
2012-09-29 04:18:37 AM  

doglover: Acharne: [eu.greekreporter.com image 592x404]
Uhhhh is...uh this dude evil? I can't quite.....I think.......I think he's evil...Just something...... 


[images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 639x354]


He's not evil. Just an honest Republican.
 
2012-09-29 04:25:03 AM  

BronyMedic: doglover: Acharne: [eu.greekreporter.com image 592x404]
Uhhhh is...uh this dude evil? I can't quite.....I think.......I think he's evil...Just something...... 


[images4.wikia.nocookie.net image 639x354]

He's not evil. Just an honest Republican.


You didn't get that reference?
 
2012-09-29 04:42:15 AM  
Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.
 
2012-09-29 04:47:25 AM  
And since my previous post has a superfluous "s" which I missed during editing I should probably kill myself too.

/All aboard the S.S. Essess
 
2012-09-29 04:48:30 AM  
The state should never relinquish its monopoly on violence.
 
2012-09-29 04:49:36 AM  
Oh for fark sake. It looks like Europe is going gearing up for their regular "cleansing" again. Can we sit this one out?
 
2012-09-29 04:51:51 AM  

OgreMagi: Oh for fark sake. It looks like Europe is going gearing up for their regular "cleansing" again. Can we sit this one out?


purerocknews.com
 
2012-09-29 04:55:36 AM  
This is how terrorists/militia become the legitimate government, folks.

Wait till the "real" government can't or won't do the job, then do it yourselves. Create a shadow government with its own police, courts, taxes, etc., and then wait till a crisis to emerge as the protector of your chosen people.

In this case, the government crisis is internal, rather than externally applied by the terrorists themselves, but same same.
 
2012-09-29 04:56:03 AM  
If the state allows civilian groups to take over the business of enforcement, then we'll start to see the rise of mafia networks. The Mafia in Sicily arose pretty much because the Sicilian police in the 19th century were useless. Plus, these guys are a political party, so they'll certainly use their license to beat up people in order to amass more power. Pretty soon they'll be harassing opponents because somebody "complained" about them.

A turning point in the Russian Revolution was when the government armed the Bolsheviks and asked them to help crush a coup and bring order to the city. Instead they took those guns and launched their own coup.
 
2012-09-29 05:00:13 AM  
Its how it began 80 years ago with debt and hyperinflation.

It would not surprise me if it began once again.
 
2012-09-29 05:17:47 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.


You'd be amazed at how many weird neo-nazi groups are out there. There's Mongolian Neo Nazis who idolize both Genghis Khan and Hitler. I also bumped into a guy on the net at a metal site from Israel who was in a NSBM band. When he found out I was American, he threatened me and then switched to Hebrew to talk to his weirdo buddies. As a white woman of Norwegian heritage (mom and grandma are both straight out of Norway) I'm used to guys like that hitting on me while I run screaming in the other direction, not threatening or insulting me because I'm not Mongolian or Israeli. Strange stuff, dude.
 
2012-09-29 05:22:24 AM  

Dadoody: Its how it began 80 years ago with debt and hyperinflation.

It would not surprise me if it began once again.


This, in spades.
 
2012-09-29 05:22:55 AM  
mauryk2.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-29 05:37:03 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.


You know good and well that the racist aren't worried if the crap that they believe or preach is logical.
 
2012-09-29 05:37:59 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live.


I once had the chance to go hear a former white supremacist talk about his experiences with white power groups and things. During the Q&A, I asked him about a logical contradiction between two beliefs he raised. His answer was basically, "look, you're putting more thought into than those people do."
 
2012-09-29 05:55:43 AM  
Yeah, I kind of figured there wouldn't really be an answer, but thought I'd ask anyway on the off chance that someone here had spent some time thinking about it and come up with a rationale. I spend a fair amount of time thinking about psychology, but more along the line of relationships than racial superiority. I'll count myself lucky on that one.

/At least Illinois isn't bankrupt.
//Hate Illinois nazis.
 
2012-09-29 06:25:21 AM  
People tend to forget that the real Nazis, despite being evil and all that, put a lot of thought into their ideology. They had about a dozen years to create a worldview that penetrated all levels of society and even had a whole new "scientific" establishment built around it.

Neo Nazis, as far as I can tell, are usually barely literate teenagers with nothing to look forward to in life and a desire to find some group, any group where they are the superior ones. I'm from Russia and was always puzzled by Russian neo Nazis and their Hitler worship. I mean, I can understand if you want to make a far right ethnic supremacist group, but why would you worship a guy who explicitly considered you subhuman and deserving nothing more than extermination and slavery?

Never heard of Israeli Nazis, but I've long since lost the ability to be surprised by peoples' levels of cognitive dissonance. How do they work? No, seriously, someone tell me. I mean, come on. Russians were pretty high up on the subhuman list, but Jews were the whole reason for the list!
 
2012-09-29 06:44:03 AM  

Here'sJohnny: Never heard of Israeli Nazis, but I've long since lost the ability to be surprised by peoples' levels of cognitive dissonance. How do they work? No, seriously, someone tell me. I mean, come on. Russians were pretty high up on the subhuman list, but Jews were the whole reason for the list!


I only ever bumped into the one online at a black metal site, but from what I could tell before he threatened me and then switched to Hebrew he simply thinks anyone who is not of Hebrew heritage is beneath him. The hate and the stupid were both pretty extreme. Anyone who lives in Israel and plays in a NSBM band has got to have the hate and stupid in droves. I didn't even think that kind of thing was legal there, with or without the Hitler worship. I never did find out what he thought about Hitler anyway. As I said, he threatened my life (good luck with that one. I'm in California) then switched to Hebrew. The guys he was talking to were probably just like him or maybe even his bandmates.

A friend of mine hanging out at a different metal site bumped into one as well. After we compared notes we think it was the same guy. So he is active in the online metal scene, he just hates us all because we're not Hebraic. *shrug*
 
2012-09-29 06:59:13 AM  
So if you are willing to work and pay taxes you are now a Nazi? Yeah, saw that one coming a mile away.
 
2012-09-29 07:02:30 AM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: A friend of mine hanging out at a different metal site bumped into one as well. After we compared notes we think it was the same guy. So he is active in the online metal scene, he just hates us all because we're not Hebraic. *shrug*


Ya the "I'm better than you because of who I am," thing is common all over human society. Nazi's went the farthest with it but the same kind of tribal/racist thing is common all over. Who the "good" and the "bad" group is varies but it is the same basic shiat.
 
2012-09-29 07:03:28 AM  
Good thing there's a strong anarchist/anti-fascist movement there to fight back.
But then again, police siding with neo-nazis/fascists/far right elements is par for the course. It's okay to knife and murder some immigrants, just don't you dare throw a molotov at the racists doing these deeds.
 
2012-09-29 07:13:28 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.


The Golden Dawn rejects the descriptions of Neo-nazi or fascist, despite being exactly that. They are openly racist and nationalist. They're whole act is pretty much "hurf durf immigrants bad, get dem out!" Basically, while the government bureaucrats and private capitalists have joined forces to rob the people of Greece in an act of extreme class warfare, Golden Dawn is misdirected rage. No, it's not that we're being robbed blind and stolen from by the people at the top of the pyramid under the extortion racket that is the IMF/EU/ECB and the concept of austerity/debt , it's our immigrant neighbors that done took er jerbs.
They're basically what the Tea Party would be if the Tea Party's main demographic was able bodied 20-40 year olds. Down to the same political dynamics ( They're seen as a pro by the looters because they're willing to allow the robbery to happen, and attack those who are standing in the way, but their radicalism is bad for business.)
 
2012-09-29 07:20:23 AM  

bifford: The state should never relinquish its monopoly on violence.


It's funny because you think that there is a difference between the neo-nazis and the police over there.
Or that the state has any legitimacy to begin with.
Even from a standard representative democracy non-autonomous liberal standpoint, it's a stretch to call it a democracy. The government was pretty much handpicked by the real/private owners of the country and capital has stolen their democracy with their bullshiat "unity government". Pretty much the same thing happened in Italy too. Not that the private class controlling the state is all that novel or rare, but those are the two most blatant modern scenarios. Austerity used to be a scam meant to perpetuate debt in third world countries so we could rob the people blind of their resources through the force of their government, and now we're eating our own.
Welcome to the neoliberal revolution folks. This is your dictatorship of the bourgeoisie. The next step is utopian capitalism for all.
 
2012-09-29 07:21:52 AM  

m2313: Mr. Ekshun: Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.

The Golden Dawn rejects the descriptions of Neo-nazi or fascist, despite being exactly that. They are openly racist and nationalist. They're whole act is pretty much "hurf durf immigrants bad, get dem out!" Basically, while the government bureaucrats and private capitalists have joined forces to rob the people of Greece in an act of extreme class warfare, Golden Dawn is misdirected rage. No, it's not that we're being robbed blind and stolen from by the people at the top of the pyramid under the extortion racket that is the IMF/EU/ECB and the concept of austerity/debt , it's our immigrant neighbors that done took er jerbs.
They're basically what the Tea Party would be if the Tea Party's main demographic was able bodied 20-40 year olds. Down to the same political dynamics ( They're seen as a pro by the looters because they're willing to allow the robbery to happen, and attack those who are standing in the way, but their radicalism is bad for business.)


You expend a ot of energy on hate.
 
2012-09-29 07:24:51 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.


You are expecting way too much of them. You're dealing with people whose environment and levels of education lead to a complete absence of intellectual curiosity, both about the opinions they hold themselves and the opinions of those they are told are their opponents.

Take this fine patriotic citizen (who is not Greek obviously but from an English group similar in objectives to Golden Dawn, the English Defence League). He has been wound up and told where to go, completely without the tools needed to stop and apply some critical thinking to his actions.

If you don't know about logic you can't apply it to the stories you are told by others.
 
2012-09-29 07:32:38 AM  
The Greek police are coming to arrest me. Oh, nooooooooo!
 
2012-09-29 08:31:22 AM  
The immigrants can always go back to their countries of origin and suck off the government there.
 
2012-09-29 08:41:37 AM  

Real Women Drink Akvavit: You'd be amazed at how many weird neo-nazi groups are out there. There's Mongolian Neo Nazis who idolize both Genghis Khan and Hitler. ...


Himmler believed the Aryan race started in ... Nepal. A belief affirmed by the discovery of a Nazi, Budda, alien.
 
2012-09-29 08:42:44 AM  
 
2012-09-29 08:43:49 AM  

david_gaithersburg: m2313: Mr. Ekshun: Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.

The Golden Dawn rejects the descriptions of Neo-nazi or fascist, despite being exactly that. They are openly racist and nationalist. They're whole act is pretty much "hurf durf immigrants bad, get dem out!" Basically, while the government bureaucrats and private capitalists have joined forces to rob the people of Greece in an act of extreme class warfare, Golden Dawn is misdirected rage. No, it's not that we're being robbed blind and stolen from by the people at the top of the pyramid under the extortion racket that is the IMF/EU/ECB and the concept of austerity/debt , it's our immigrant neighbors that done took er jerbs.
They're basically what the Tea Party would be if the Tea Party's main demographic was able bodied 20-40 year olds. Down to the same political dynamics ( They're seen as a pro by the looters because they're willing to allow the robbery to happen, and attack those who are standing in the way, but their radicalism is bad for business.)

You expend a ot of energy on hate.


The Nazi's were mostly dark haired and dark eyed. German Nazism was about German superiority, not about being blonde haired and blue eyed. Just look at the top Nazis, Greek Nazism is just about Greek pride. No different than black power or white power. When countries go to hell in a handbasket people tend to blame those who are not like them for the collapse. Greece is no exception.

Actually, has anyone ever taken notice of Mexico's ruling class? They are very white (from Spanish and other European families). They are doing what the Greeks are doing by pushing as many dark skinned people northward into the US to take the strain off of their economy. Calderon calls the US a racist and yet what is he? US citizens are historically ignorant. Mexico was a colony of Spain as the US was of Britain. Mexico is not run by native Americans, it is run by Europeans.
 
2012-09-29 08:55:58 AM  

kingthunky: Mr. Ekshun: I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.

You are expecting way too much of them. You're dealing with people whose environment and levels of education lead to a complete absence of intellectual curiosity, both about the opinions they hold themselves and the opinions of those they are told are their opponents.

Take this fine patriotic citizen (who is not Greek obviously but from an English group similar in objectives to Golden Dawn, the English Defence League). He has been wound up and told where to go, completely without the tools needed to stop and apply some critical thinking to his actions.

If you don't know about logic you can't apply it to the stories you are told by others.


That was well put and, as is occasionally my habit, I managed to forget that when all you have is a hammer, everything starts looking like a nail. I try to view the world from as logical a stance as I'm capable of and in my haste hadn't considered that some don't think about much other than the basics of survival. I'm still having difficulty imagining how a person could go through life like that, in fact. It's like a biologist trying to imagine a one-dimensional life form. I guess this is why I've had such difficulty understanding people even after twenty six years of actively trying.
 
2012-09-29 09:11:19 AM  
"One victim of crime, an eloquent 38-year-old US-trained female civil servant, who lives in a downtown apartment block and was recently involved in an incident involving Albanian immigrants, spoke with the Guardian only on condition of anonymity."

Oh Guardian, the legths you will go to, to protect your sources.
 
2012-09-29 09:27:45 AM  

Gyrfalcon: This is how terrorists/militia become the legitimate government, folks.

Wait till the "real" government can't or won't do the job, then do it yourselves. Create a shadow government with its own police, courts, taxes, etc., and then wait till a crisis to emerge as the protector of your chosen people.

In this case, the government crisis is internal, rather than externally applied by the terrorists themselves, but same same.


It's the Libertarian dream.
 
2012-09-29 09:28:00 AM  

m2313: Mr. Ekshun: Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.

The Golden Dawn rejects the descriptions of Neo-nazi or fascist, despite being exactly that. They are openly racist and nationalist. They're whole act is pretty much "hurf durf immigrants bad, get dem out!" Basically, while the government bureaucrats and private capitalists have joined forces to rob the people of Greece in an act of extreme class warfare, Golden Dawn is misdirected rage. No, it's not that we're being robbed blind and stolen from by the people at the top of the pyramid under the extortion racket that is the IMF/EU/ECB and the concept of austerity/debt , it's our immigrant neighbors that done took er jerbs.
They're basically what the Tea Party would be if the Tea Party's main demographic was able bodied 20-40 year olds. Down to the same political dynamics ( They're seen as a pro by the looters because they're willing to allow the robbery to happen, and attack those who are standing in the way, but their radicalism is bad for business.)


I started equating what you wrote to what I see developing in the US before you even got to the Tea Party. The government slowly crumbling under the weight of its own petty foolishness and lack of responsibility. The corporate destruction of our financial system. The anti-Mexican sentiment in Arizona, Texas, parts of New Mexico and Colorado and California, etc. The anti-Muslim/Iranian/generic-Middle-Eastern sentiment throughout most of the country. Heck, there may even be some anti-Canadian sentiment up north, for all I know. The false patriotism of "we're the greatest country and everyone else isn't" which leads to American flags being plastered on every square inch of free space (looking down on everyone else's country isn't the same as being proud of your own). Yeah, semi-isolated pockets of bigotry and social unrest exist in every country, and maybe it only appears more widespread in the US because I live with it every day, but it's starting to seem like the next fifty years are going to be the sort of interesting I don't look forward to.

Every time I start thinking about things like this I decide that my time would be better spent entertaining people with silly one-liners I've stolen.

/My girlfriend got drunk and told everyone she invented the echo. I said, "listen to yourself, woman!"
 
2012-09-29 09:40:30 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: Gyrfalcon: This is how terrorists/militia become the legitimate government, folks.

Wait till the "real" government can't or won't do the job, then do it yourselves. Create a shadow government with its own police, courts, taxes, etc., and then wait till a crisis to emerge as the protector of your chosen people.

In this case, the government crisis is internal, rather than externally applied by the terrorists themselves, but same same.

It's the Libertarian dream.


1/10. Try harder, trollmeister.
 
2012-09-29 10:31:38 AM  

Here'sJohnny: People tend to forget that the real Nazis, despite being evil and all that, put a lot of thought into their ideology. They had about a dozen years to create a worldview that penetrated all levels of society and even had a whole new "scientific" establishment built around it.

Neo Nazis, as far as I can tell, are usually barely literate teenagers with nothing to look forward to in life and a desire to find some group, any group where they are the superior ones. I'm from Russia and was always puzzled by Russian neo Nazis and their Hitler worship. I mean, I can understand if you want to make a far right ethnic supremacist group, but why would you worship a guy who explicitly considered you subhuman and deserving nothing more than extermination and slavery?

Never heard of Israeli Nazis, but I've long since lost the ability to be surprised by peoples' levels of cognitive dissonance. How do they work? No, seriously, someone tell me. I mean, come on. Russians were pretty high up on the subhuman list, but Jews were the whole reason for the list!


When it comes to unbridled hate , reason is not a factor.
 
2012-09-29 10:33:15 AM  
m2313
Good thing there's a strong anarchist/anti-fascist movement there to fight back.

Yeah? So why the fark have they let Golden Dawn get this far out of hand? If anything the Greek Anarchists provide us with a great example of what NOT to do. While A-Team was out fighting the police and getting on TV, the fascists have been basebuilding. Now 22% of Greece might vote for them. The fact that there is a Golden Dawn franchise in New York which is not on fire is not a good sign for North American Anarchists.


david_gaithersburg
You expend a ot of energy on hate.

Yeah, why would anyone hate neo-nazis? Let's just, like, be cool, man.


kingthunky
You are expecting way too much of them. You're dealing with people whose environment and levels of education lead to a complete absence of intellectual curiosity, both about the opinions they hold themselves and the opinions of those they are told are their opponents.

Not only that, but the cognitive dissonence actually plays into the fascist strategy: Confusion makes people with authoritarian personality types more likely to blindly cling to the nearest power center and follow orders without question, just because they value stability more than coherence.


mikewadestr
The immigrants can always go back to their countries of origin and suck off the government there.

Kill yourself.
 
2012-09-29 10:59:02 AM  

Mr. Ekshun: Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be? But if that were the case, wouldn't theses Nazis be obliged to kill Hitler, should the opportunity ever arise? I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live. Yeah, with people like that you have to expect some problems with logic, but I'm still curious about the psychological chain of justification.


The problem is that you are applying the term based on what you know of WWII era German nazis and not thinking about the general idea of nationalism or a political party that puts its nations natural born citizens first.
 
2012-09-29 11:08:31 AM  
Mr. Ekshun:

Wouldn't Greek Nazis have to kill themselves? Y'know, since people of Mediterranean heritage tend not to be northern Europeans. Or are they just adopting the concept of racial superiority and applying it to whatever race they happen to be?

Yes. These days it's all about Ethopluralism (link), where the dominant or at least predominant "race" in each area gets to be the Master Race there. So in Greece the "neo-nazis" (link) are Greek and the subhumans are Slavs, Albanians, Turks and Africans.

Which is odd because fairly early in the Byzantine Empire most people in mainland Greece died of famine and disease after years of devastating invasions and the attendant social breakdown, so the rulers in Constantinople encouraged Slavic tribes to settle, farm and pay taxes in Greece -- who then spoke Greek and adopted Christianity because that was what the Empire was all about. So for about 1500 years the idea that most people in mainland Greece are the descendants of the ancient Hellenes has been as ridiculous as insisting that the current residents of upstate New York are Mohawks because 500 years ago that was Mohawk land. (As to "FYROM" Macedonia, they're as Greek as people whose ancestors have lived near Athens since 800 AD, which is to say not very.)

And by the way, during the Roman Empire most people in Judea/Palestine were Jewish until after the Christian conversion of the Empire, when the majority everywhere in the Empire eventually converted to one form of Christianity or another. However those whose maternal line was Jewish remained halakhically Jews, regardless of what they called themselves and what religion they practiced. Then of course the Arabs invaded and most of the Christians (including those whose maternal line was Jewish) and many of the remaining Jews converted to Islam and took up Arabic, becoming known as Palestinians today. Therefore a great many Muslim Arab Palestinians are Jewish by rabbinical law, as their ancestors were when they practiced Christianity and spoke Greek.

And another thing: according to fascist ethnopluralism, the Master Race in Israel would have to be the Jews. It's a "winners take all" thing.

It seems very convoluted but if you spend weeks reading up on this stuff on the Internet you'll see that for about 40-50 years these people have gone to great lengths to become intellectually consistant and to harmonize fascism across Europe. The fascists in Greece, Italy, Germany, Britain and France are all on the same side now, and if they took power across Europe they'd divide that peninsula between them and gang up on the non-white countries, kinda like NATO. Keep in mind that the chief ideologists of most of these fascist groups are very intelligent and educated people, their followers' inability to spell "cat" notwithstanding. If we had anything like them in the USA our "city on a hill" with liberty and justice for all would be in trouble: it's a good thing American "white nationalists" are knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers.
 
2012-09-29 11:13:52 AM  
This seems a good example of right-wing dynamics: cut public services, fail to foster private capital investment, bring in immigrants to act as scabs working for less than locals, outsource law enforcement to private prisons, security corps (Blackwater?), then use the last to 'protect' people from the furriners you allowed into the country in the first place. You get to be Chainsaw Al Dunlap and Charles Bronson in one.
 
2012-09-29 11:34:29 AM  
Greece is on its way to becoming Mad Max.
 
2012-09-29 11:55:31 AM  
bifford:

The state should never relinquish its monopoly on violence.

That sounds very Stalinist.
 
2012-09-29 12:06:52 PM  

Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Mr. Ekshun: I've always been curious about the apparent logical contradiction which seems to be so common with modern Nazis, wherever they may live.

I once had the chance to go hear a former white supremacist talk about his experiences with white power groups and things. During the Q&A, I asked him about a logical contradiction between two beliefs he raised. His answer was basically, "look, you're putting more thought into than those people do."


Actually what's contradictory is the what the ordinary followers says and think, based on their ordinary understanding. The smart people who run the movements have their shiat all ironed out.

Then too you're thinking of American white supremacists, most of whom would be stuck with boots full of piss. Keep in mind that the American colonies and Australia were founded as places for Britain to send its stupid people, and that most of our "white supremacists" are descended from that stock.
 
2012-09-29 12:32:39 PM  
Real Women Drink Akvavit:

I only ever bumped into the one online at a black metal site, but from what I could tell before he threatened me and then switched to Hebrew he simply thinks anyone who is not of Hebrew heritage is beneath him. The hate and the stupid were both pretty extreme. Anyone who lives in Israel and plays in a NSBM band has got to have the hate and stupid in droves. I didn't even think that kind of thing was legal there, with or without the Hitler worship. I never did find out what he thought about Hitler anyway.

Logically an Israeli Jewish fascist would be an Ultra-Zionist, like Rabbi Kahane and his movement. To these people Begin and Natanyahu are liberal pantywaists. In my day the Kahane crowd would have loathed the "Nazi" symbolism and they'd have been careful about calling the Jews the Master Race, but the rest of it they'd have been right on board with. Black Metal tends to be more secular (at least more secular than Lubavich) so I'm not sure if the guys in this band want an Israeli Empire to run according to Jewish sharia halakha, but that's up to the Israelis to work out.

If they honor Hitler at all it's because he "said what everybody else was thinking" and because he "showed how the real world works": if you want your "race" to be on top that's the way to do it. Some might even say Hitler was right in thinking the Jews didn't belong in Germany or in German-controlled territory, so the Jews should have left before Hitler killed them -- and gone to Palestine to "holocaust" the Arabs.

Then too there would be no Israel without Hitler. Until after the Holocaust most Jews weren't Zionist, being either what we'd now call "ultra-Orthodox" or socialists of one stripe or another: the former said to wait till the messiah comes and establishes Israel, the latter said Jews should contribute to world socialism where they lived at the time. After the Holocaust the Mossad said "Toldja so!" and made Zionism the default ideology among the Jewish ethnos.

Don't get fixated on Hitler and the swastika, these days that's beside the point. Now any Hitler-heiler who's not German is an idiot, just as in the '30s & '40s.
 
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