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(BBC-US)   "Hey Notch, I know you hate Windows and I'm gonna let you finish, but your customers just want your games to run securely on their computers"   (bbc.com) divider line 82
    More: Interesting, Windows, open platforms, Gabe Newell, computer power, Microsoft, operating systems  
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5339 clicks; posted to Geek » on 29 Sep 2012 at 7:13 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-29 07:22:31 AM  
Dammed if you do; dammed if you don't.

Microsoft is in a no-win situation, IMHO.
 
2012-09-29 07:25:07 AM  
Also - Notch is a d-bag. Minecraft is plenty of platforms more closed than Windows 8.
 
2012-09-29 07:25:44 AM  
Dear Microsoft:

farm5.static.flickr.com

 
2012-09-29 07:55:14 AM  
I see no issue with this, they're not removing the ability to install software as a standard application. Only if you want to go through the closed store system.

Also the whole Apple owns iOS etc thing so we'll comply with closed systems is pretty silly. iOS is to phones that Mac OSX is to PCs. And the same with Linux, Android, Windows and Windows Phone.

- An operating system on a standardised platform, as evidenced by most manufacturers using the same chips, OSes being interchangeable with a bit of work (by XDA) etc and all with the same instruction set except on ARM instead of x86.
 
2012-09-29 07:55:31 AM  
Notch just dislikes anyone cutting into his profits, there's a reason minecraft never showed up on steam either. That said we've all already declared that win8 is dead in the water so what's the fuss, no one's going to use it and MS will have to reverse course on win9 else no one will use that either.
 
2012-09-29 07:57:39 AM  
20 bucks says that notch would have had his program certified without any changes to it's code at all if he hadn't been a total asshole.
 
2012-09-29 07:58:38 AM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: Notch is a d-bag.


Bears repeating.
 
2012-09-29 08:12:48 AM  
"What`s the matter? We only want 30% of your income to use our restrictive marketplace and for you to never ever make a product for adults. Why would someone have a problem with this?"
 
2012-09-29 08:13:13 AM  
He didn't have any problem putting it on iOS and Xbox360. And we all know those are the openest, free-as-in-freedomy app stores in the world. So, definitely not a hypocrite, then.
 
2012-09-29 08:16:07 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Notch just dislikes anyone cutting into his profits, there's a reason minecraft never showed up on steam either. That said we've all already declared that win8 is dead in the water so what's the fuss, no one's going to use it and MS will have to reverse course on win9 else no one will use that either.


I use a desktop to get away from the crap they push on you with tablets. I will NEVER get windows 8 if they continue with this sort of thing.
blogs.independent.co.uk
www.channel4.com
 
2012-09-29 08:28:07 AM  

BumpInTheNight: Notch just dislikes anyone cutting into his profits, there's a reason minecraft never showed up on steam either. That said we've all already declared that win8 is dead in the water so what's the fuss, no one's going to use it and MS will have to reverse course on win9 else no one will use that either.


True story. Looks like Win7 is the new XP.
 
2012-09-29 08:28:59 AM  
What he said is true. He is not being a hypcocrite. You expect a smart phone and a gaming console to be restrictive platforms. Millions of people have already shown they agree by purchasing the iPhone 5. One of those is made primarily to function as a phone. The other is made to play video games. A PC is made to be able to do whatever you want it to do. Microsoft doesn't like that. They already tried to make it so that in order to get their certification sticker manufacturers had to install restrictive bios that would only allow the PC to boot Windows.

They bring up a good point trying to use Minecraft for Xbox to point out that he is a hypocrite. Minecraft for Xbox has a ridiculously slow wait time for updates. Supposedly, the current new update is finished but it will be three weeks before it passes Microsoft's certification.
 
2012-09-29 08:41:12 AM  
Solution: play Dwarf Fortress instead.
 
2012-09-29 08:44:56 AM  

the cake is a pie: So, definitely not a hypocrite, then.


Hes a vampire that feeds on the herp caused by his derp. He doesn't think he's famous unless he's causing drama, so is constantly making inflammatory statements.

/a man after my own heart
 
2012-09-29 08:55:25 AM  
TFA: The certification scheme that Mr Persson has taken issue with is designed to illustrate that Microsoft has reviewed a program to confirm the code is "completely finished" and reliable when run on a Windows 8-powered PC.

Who will certify Windows 8 is completely finished and reliable?
 
2012-09-29 08:59:52 AM  
Forget Windows, how about he just port Minecraft over to something other than slow piggy dying Java?
 
2012-09-29 09:22:38 AM  

numbquil: What he said is true. He is not being a hypcocrite. You expect a smart phone and a gaming console to be restrictive platforms. Millions of people have already shown they agree by purchasing the iPhone 5. One of those is made primarily to function as a phone. The other is made to play video games. A PC is made to be able to do whatever you want it to do. Microsoft doesn't like that. They already tried to make it so that in order to get their certification sticker manufacturers had to install restrictive bios that would only allow the PC to boot Windows.

They bring up a good point trying to use Minecraft for Xbox to point out that he is a hypocrite. Minecraft for Xbox has a ridiculously slow wait time for updates. Supposedly, the current new update is finished but it will be three weeks before it passes Microsoft's certification.


That's a big stretch - IMHO. Why do people EXPECT that? If Windows 8 becomes a huge success - in 10 years people will EXPECT the PC market to be as restrictive as cell phones are now. There is nothing about a phone or gaming console that requires that it be more restrictive than a PC? Nothing. There are countless Smartphones running Android; and plenty of people ran Linux on the Ps3.

People expect them to be restrictive because most of them are. That's it. It has nothing to do with how things need to be.

Beyond that - Windows 8 has more in common with iOS than it does with OSX.
 
2012-09-29 09:27:55 AM  
Yeah i see no point in the myriad restrictions on ios and supposedly open android
 
2012-09-29 09:29:14 AM  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but all this "locked-down" environment stuff about Windows 8 - isn't that just in regards to MS's App store which is only going to be an issue on the Win-8-Tablet-version (whatever it is) because they're trying to copy Apple's walled-garden approach?

The average person buying the cheap (well, it's relative I guess) Home copy of Win 8 is still going to be able to install whatever crap they want.
 
2012-09-29 09:36:38 AM  

CHARNAME: BumpInTheNight: Notch just dislikes anyone cutting into his profits, there's a reason minecraft never showed up on steam either. That said we've all already declared that win8 is dead in the water so what's the fuss, no one's going to use it and MS will have to reverse course on win9 else no one will use that either.

True story. Looks like Win7 is the new XP.


That's how its shaping up in my view for sure, XP proved that an microsoft OS can cling to relevance for 11+ years so its a safe bet that win7 will have at least that life expectancy to wait around for MS to stop forcing bullshiat changes on its users with future OSes for at least that long. Likely much longer since win7 addressed the largest technology changes since XP so effectively (proper x64 capability and SSD support). Its going to be a tough sell for MS to make me want to go up from win7, even as a gamer I laugh at the attempts via nixing backward compatibility in newer directx engines since to date the only games that have genuinely insisted on higher directx were mundane 'who cares' ones any ways.
 
2012-09-29 09:39:23 AM  

fluffy2097: Fark_Guy_Rob: Notch is a d-bag.

Bears repeating.


Maybe if they rewrite Minecraft in something other than Java.....

Oh wait, I see that was covered.
 
2012-09-29 09:49:31 AM  
fark software certification. It's absolute corporate bullshiat based on an operating system of lies. MS created the antivirus industry and the virus industry at the same time. They never cared one whit about whether your grandma could get an Outlook email that embedded a Word virus. Now they are pretending to be the grand gatekeepers of what's safe? fark you, Microsoft.
 
2012-09-29 09:51:01 AM  

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: fark software certification. It's absolute corporate bullshiat based on an operating system of lies. MS created the antivirus industry and the virus industry at the same time. They never cared one whit about whether your grandma could get an Outlook email that embedded a Word virus. Now they are pretending to be the grand gatekeepers of what's safe? fark you, Microsoft.


Who does care about safe?
 
2012-09-29 09:58:13 AM  

cretinbob: Maybe if they rewrite Minecraft in something other than Java.....

Oh wait, I see that was covered.



Wait wait. Are you telling me you need JVM or JRE installed to run Minecraft?
 
2012-09-29 10:02:51 AM  

dyhchong: I see no issue with this, they're not removing the ability to install software as a standard application. Only if you want to go through the closed store system.


Not yet, anyway. You do have to go through MS's store if you want your game to run under Metro, though. And I think it's pretty clear that MS intends Metro to be the only interface in Windows 9.

Kudos to Notch for resisting MS's attempt to turn PCs into overgrown iPads.
 
2012-09-29 10:03:15 AM  

fluffy2097: cretinbob: Maybe if they rewrite Minecraft in something other than Java.....

Oh wait, I see that was covered.


Wait wait. Are you telling me you need JVM or JRE installed to run Minecraft?


yah and minecraft is ridiculously inefficient as a result. I have to go into the nvidia control panel and force vsync on the java engine itself otherwise MC will sit there burning up your GPU(s) at 100%, as one example. Also that whole 'minecraft eats 2GB of system memory' thing too.
 
2012-09-29 10:23:12 AM  

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: fark software certification. It's absolute corporate bullshiat based on an operating system of lies. MS created the antivirus industry and the virus industry at the same time. They never cared one whit about whether your grandma could get an Outlook email that embedded a Word virus. Now they are pretending to be the grand gatekeepers of what's safe? fark you, Microsoft.


And Apple
And Sony
And Nintendo
And Samsung
And Google
And Amazon
And Toy's R Us
And Leapfrog
And LCD Watch Games
 
2012-09-29 10:23:57 AM  
So, aligned against MS here: Notch, Gabe Newell, Rob Pardo.

Aligned with MS: two random game companies and some guy on Twitter.

I may not hate MS the way so many do, but I think one of these sides might actually know more about selling games...
 
2012-09-29 10:26:36 AM  

BumpInTheNight: CHARNAME: BumpInTheNight: Notch just dislikes anyone cutting into his profits, there's a reason minecraft never showed up on steam either. That said we've all already declared that win8 is dead in the water so what's the fuss, no one's going to use it and MS will have to reverse course on win9 else no one will use that either.

True story. Looks like Win7 is the new XP.

That's how its shaping up in my view for sure, XP proved that an microsoft OS can cling to relevance for 11+ years so its a safe bet that win7 will have at least that life expectancy to wait around for MS to stop forcing bullshiat changes on its users with future OSes for at least that long. Likely much longer since win7 addressed the largest technology changes since XP so effectively (proper x64 capability and SSD support). Its going to be a tough sell for MS to make me want to go up from win7, even as a gamer I laugh at the attempts via nixing backward compatibility in newer directx engines since to date the only games that have genuinely insisted on higher directx were mundane 'who cares' ones any ways.


I agree completely. Even though it's not my job anymore. I still keep my hand in a lot of windows development, so I can see myself having some devices that run on Win 8+ in the future, but from a work perspective I seriously doubt that we will be replacing Windows 7 anytime soon. Hell, we JUST made the jump from Windows XP to Windows 7 and your assessment is absolutely correct - we run an enterprise environment so we are mostly concerned with stability. Both OS's are extremely stable - there is nothing that Windows 8 brings to the table that our business is going to want to adopt right away. I mean, really, they are just getting used to the idea of having an instant messager at work...
 
2012-09-29 10:32:26 AM  
The real issue here is that Microsoft is attempting to force it's software store on everyone.

It's IE pre-installed and required to run Windows v every other browser, all over again. We've seen this song play out, and it ends on a sour note for Microsoft.
 
2012-09-29 10:34:33 AM  

BumpInTheNight: yah and minecraft is ridiculously inefficient as a result. I have to go into the nvidia control panel and force vsync on the java engine itself otherwise MC will sit there burning up your GPU(s) at 100%, as one example. Also that whole 'minecraft eats 2GB of system memory' thing too.


Wow. I knew he was a hack. I didn't know he was H1-B Indian batabase programmer level.
 
Zel
2012-09-29 10:41:24 AM  

BumpInTheNight: fluffy2097: cretinbob: Maybe if they rewrite Minecraft in something other than Java.....

Oh wait, I see that was covered.


Wait wait. Are you telling me you need JVM or JRE installed to run Minecraft?

yah and minecraft is ridiculously inefficient as a result. I have to go into the nvidia control panel and force vsync on the java engine itself otherwise MC will sit there burning up your GPU(s) at 100%, as one example. Also that whole 'minecraft eats 2GB of system memory' thing too.


Hi there. Computer guy here to let you know that you bought that GPU and that 2GB of ram for the purpose of using it.

The game works great.
 
2012-09-29 10:47:30 AM  

fluffy2097: BumpInTheNight: yah and minecraft is ridiculously inefficient as a result. I have to go into the nvidia control panel and force vsync on the java engine itself otherwise MC will sit there burning up your GPU(s) at 100%, as one example. Also that whole 'minecraft eats 2GB of system memory' thing too.

Wow. I knew he was a hack. I didn't know he was H1-B Indian batabase programmer level.


For sure, I mean gotta cut him some slack this was likely his first project outside of getting a comp-sci degree that took off explosively and he didn't let go of the development reigns fast enough to accommodate. I'm also of the opinion he used jmonkey as a platform to develop minecraft due to its eerily similar methods like 'by default a game is 720p windowed' among other rather tell-tale signs. He should have brought in a more experienced developer much earlier in the process but meh hopefully if there's ever a 'minecraft 2' it will be built on a much more solid foundation. As an aside when I was poking around at that engine I stumbled upon a knock off called Mythruna which shows incredible promise. Its almost everything minecraft is but much more polished.
 
2012-09-29 10:51:22 AM  

BumpInTheNight: For sure, I mean gotta cut him some slack this was likely his first project outside of getting a comp-sci degree that took off explosively and he didn't let go of the development reigns fast enough to accommodate


I could cut him slack for that, but it sounds like he'd rather double down on his derp then admit his mistakes.
 
2012-09-29 10:52:20 AM  

Zel: Hi there. Computer guy here to let you know that you bought that GPU and that 2GB of ram for the purpose of using it.

The game works great.


Hi there, computer enthusiast here that actually bought much heavier duty cards then that.

When I see a situation like minecraft chewing up much more resources then Skyrim despite the vast difference in quality I know something isn't quite right, especially when I can flip one simple flag and it suddenly drops down to a fraction of those resources used while still playing just as smoothly. I understand minecraft was for the most part a one man operation vs skyriim was a whole team of highly skilled professionals, at this point though with minecraft's success you'd hope it's code would have improved accordingly.
 
2012-09-29 11:15:53 AM  

Zel: yah and minecraft is ridiculously inefficient as a result. I have to go into the nvidia control panel and force vsync on the java engine itself otherwise MC will sit there burning up your GPU(s) at 100%, as one example. Also that whole 'minecraft eats 2GB of system memory' thing too.

Hi there. Computer guy here to let you know that you bought that GPU and that 2GB of ram for the purpose of using it.

The game works great.


Hi there. Computer programmer here to let you know that such a simple game shouldn't require 100% of your processor power every second that the game is on, or even half of that 2GB of memory in order to run Minecraft.
 
2012-09-29 11:18:34 AM  

Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: fark software certification. It's absolute corporate bullshiat based on an operating system of lies. MS created the antivirus industry and the virus industry at the same time. They never cared one whit about whether your grandma could get an Outlook email that embedded a Word virus. Now they are pretending to be the grand gatekeepers of what's safe? fark you, Microsoft.


Strawman argument aside, ya *do* know Apple already did this with iOS, and have implemented the whole "certified" program thing in their recent version of OSX that will block any installation unless approved by them unless certain security settings are disabled, right? And Android doesn't let you install applications unless you go into the settings and check off certain boxes beforehand? But keep on acting like MS is the only one in the industry doing this. It makes it easy to point out the idiots.


BumpInTheNight: When I see a situation like minecraft chewing up much more resources then Skyrim despite the vast difference in quality I know something isn't quite right


No shiat, dude... Your Minecraft is taking up more resources than Skyrim? And I know you run your games in the highest of details with a metric shiat-ton of mods (you've given me plenty of advice in the past for games like Fallout 3 and Oblivion)... how the hell are you pulling that off?
 
2012-09-29 11:31:41 AM  

hogans: Computer programmer here to let you know that such a simple game shouldn't require 100% of your processor power every second that the game is on, or even half of that 2GB of memory in order to run Minecraft.


While running it inside of Java definitely adds overhead, you're forgetting one important design element of Minecraft versus a more traditional 3D game: voxels.

The 3D environments in Skyrim are actually vastly simpler than the ones in Minecraft. They don't seem simpler, because they're heavily texture mapped, but they're far simpler to describe. There's a reason game designs don't tend to use voxels if they can avoid it- but Minecraft can't avoid it. The entire purpose of Minecraft is to be a voxel-based world.

I wouldn't blame Java for Minecraft's resource hoggery- not when the architecture of the 3D world isn't based on meshes and models, but instead on voxels.
 
2012-09-29 11:44:04 AM  

RoxtarRyan: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat: fark software certification. It's absolute corporate bullshiat based on an operating system of lies. MS created the antivirus industry and the virus industry at the same time. They never cared one whit about whether your grandma could get an Outlook email that embedded a Word virus. Now they are pretending to be the grand gatekeepers of what's safe? fark you, Microsoft.

Strawman argument aside, ya *do* know Apple already did this with iOS, and have implemented the whole "certified" program thing in their recent version of OSX that will block any installation unless approved by them unless certain security settings are disabled, right? And Android doesn't let you install applications unless you go into the settings and check off certain boxes beforehand? But keep on acting like MS is the only one in the industry doing this. It makes it easy to point out the idiots.


It's a tinfoil hat/slippery slope argument. "If we let MS "get away" with introducing an ARM O/S that has the same kind of restrictions as all the others, they will then extend this to the x86 platform on laptops and desktops. They don't explain why they think MS wouldn't do this anyway, if they thought it would work to their advantage.
 
2012-09-29 11:45:46 AM  

RoxtarRyan: No shiat, dude... Your Minecraft is taking up more resources than Skyrim? And I know you run your games in the highest of details with a metric shiat-ton of mods (you've given me plenty of advice in the past for games like Fallout 3 and Oblivion)... how the hell are you pulling that off?


It scales poorly when it comes to resolution is pretty much the chief one and also that mention of how it doesn't offer the option to vsync to cap FPS. IE for the vsync thing without it the game will climb to 9999 FPS (probably higher but that's as high as fraps acknowledges) if you have enough GPU power to let it so I forced it down to 60 so it wasn't burning up the GPUs needlessly. Then for resolution going up to 1080p will almost double its vram foot print (which to be fair is the way it works with pretty much any 3d engine)...then going up to 3x1080p and it gets redonculous :P It was mainly about the lack of vsync though, with vsync forced onto the java engine minecraft at full detail + 5760x1080 resolution only uses 15% of my 3xGTX580 cards, without it minecraft just doesn't know how to say 'that's good enough' and stop trying to run as fast as it can.
 
2012-09-29 12:11:38 PM  

jso2897: It's a tinfoil hat/slippery slope argument. "If we let MS "get away" with introducing an ARM O/S that has the same kind of restrictions as all the others, they will then extend this to the x86 platform on laptops and desktops. They don't explain why they think MS wouldn't do this anyway, if they thought it would work to their advantage.


I'm not so sure MS will put the kind of restrictions a portable device has on its desktop environment (even if they do, like Apple, it will no doubt be jailbroken in time). It will mean the final nail in the coffin for not only gamers, but pretty much any software creator who has a legacy program or who may not have the resources available to make their program "certified" (not sure if MS charges any kind of fee for the certification). Though they have already stated that, like Android and the new version of OSX, you can load software without being "certified", it isn't anything new still. On one hand, it is a way for people who aren't tech savvy to help them pick out that "plugin" that a website wants to download so you can watch the newest episode of "Housewives in Antarctica" isn't really a safe program to load, but on the other hand, it may make things a bit more tricky to install legitimate non-malicious 3rd party software. My best guess is that there will be a security setting that you can toggle to allow non-certified software to be installed, but it won't be easy for Grandma and Grandpa to locate. To outright not allow any software not certified to be installed would be suicide, since working in IT for a pretty big company right now, there are tons of programs we use that we wrote in-house for troubleshooting and repairing/maintaining machines. If we can't use those? That means no less than 38,000 enterprise copies of Win8 are sold. Moving on, the gaming industry, Hollywood, and every other industry uses in-house programs to do their specific craft, and if MS tells them they can't anymore? Death by suicide, not death by competition.

Moving on... Working in the IT field... I kind of get it. Some of the worst malware and viruses people can get aren't the ones they get just by visiting a website or viewing an email, but by downloading fake "plugins" and crap off of Limewire-like programs (yes, for the record, I know people who still use those old-school P2P programs). If the whole "certified" deal is only a label that is attached to the program that helps point out that the software has been checked out and is OK, then that means less calls for me at 3am asking me to come over and fix his computer because his report due at 8am is botched since he tried to torrent a fake copy of Mass Effect 3 and the virus fragged his system. But, also working in the IT field... goddamn, those people are my job security! Ah well....
 
2012-09-29 12:24:16 PM  

starsrift: The real issue here is that Microsoft is attempting to force it's software store on everyone.

It's IE pre-installed and required to run Windows v every other browser, all over again. We've seen this song play out, and it ends on a sour note for Microsoft.


No it doesn't. It ends with them waiting until they have a favorable administration in office that lets them off with a slap on the wrist.
 
2012-09-29 02:02:40 PM  

broadsword: The average person buying the cheap (well, it's relative I guess) Home copy of Win 8 is still going to be able to install whatever crap they want.


Yes, exactly.
He's not being a hypocrite because he doesn't need to certify his game or sell it via the MS app store. There is no requirement (yet) that an application be certified to run or install on Windows 8. He's just telling MS, "fark your app store certification."
 
2012-09-29 02:54:35 PM  

jso2897: RoxtarRyan: Terrified Asexual Forcemeat:
It's a tinfoil hat/slippery slope argument. "If we let MS "get away" with introducing an ARM O/S that has the same kind of restrictions as all the others, they will then extend this to the x86 platform on laptops and desktops. They don't explain why they think MS wouldn't do this anyway, if they thought it would work to their advantage.


it is a done deal. WIndows 8 on ARM works this way. You cannot load desktop apps, and all Metro apps must be certified.

For the record, Microsoft introduced desktop app certification in the Windows Me days. They tried to make app certification mandatory for OEM use of Windows 2000, WIndows XP, Vista, and Windows 7 and failed. The current crop of E-mail solicitations is just another round for a long-running app store.

The true danger is that Microsoft added enough OEM guidelines in Windows 8 to make desktop apps come under scrutiny in hardware certification. Microsoft is currently rejecting system and device certifications based on how desktop apps and device control panels interact with the new features of Windows 8. Those changes will get into the mainstream because the affected developers don't want to maintain two code trees. As developers get used to complying, they be more amenable to Microsoft enforcing it directly upon them.
 
2012-09-29 03:05:27 PM  

thrasherrr: . WIndows 8 on ARM works this way. You cannot load desktop apps, and all Metro apps must be certified.


That's because Win8 on ARM isn't meant to be an open platform. For some reason people don't get this:

x86 Win8 : Mac OS :: ARM Win8 : iOS.

Buying a Surface or other ARM tablet is like buying an iPad. I don't see people up in arms that they can't install whever they want on an iPad.
 
2012-09-29 03:18:44 PM  

ReverendJasen: broadsword: The average person buying the cheap (well, it's relative I guess) Home copy of Win 8 is still going to be able to install whatever crap they want.

Yes, exactly.
He's not being a hypocrite because he doesn't need to certify his game or sell it via the MS app store. There is no requirement (yet) that an application be certified to run or install on Windows 8. He's just telling MS, "fark your app store certification."


He's telling MS 'Fark your app store certification - the PC should be open!'

But he's telling the Xbox store 'I would like some money; please certify me'
And he's telling the Apple store 'I would like some money; please certify me'
 
2012-09-29 03:25:23 PM  
I have never played Minecraft.

For one, it just sounds like LEGO on your computer. Woopee.

And the other reason is because I have found, over and over, that whenever the developer speaks he comes off like a dickbag. That's the combination of a douchebag and a dick, just in case you wondered. He seems like a real jerk, and I really don't want to support him in any way, shape, or form.

So, in short, Notch can shove his fake LEGO block game up his ass until he develops a personality that isn't grating, obnoxious, and self-centered as all hell.
 
2012-09-29 03:53:05 PM  

oren0: Buying a Surface or other ARM tablet is like buying an iPad. I don't see people up in arms that they can't install whever they want on an iPad.


Problem is, the brand Windows is damn near synonymous with "able to install whatever I want on it". People are approaching the ARM flavor of Win8 like "huzzah! I'll be able to run all my Steam apps on the road!", when it should be approached more like how people approach what they can do on iOS vs OSX.

ZeroCorpse: For one, it just sounds like LEGO on your computer. Woopee.


You never had a childhood, did you? ;)
 
2012-09-29 03:54:13 PM  

jso2897: It's a tinfoil hat/slippery slope argument. "If we let MS "get away" with introducing an ARM O/S that has the same kind of restrictions as all the others, they will then extend this to the x86 platform on laptops and desktops.


They already are. Have you seen Windows 8? It pretty much treats the desktop as legacy baggage; it's clear from even a cursory examination that they're looking for a way to get rid of it.
 
2012-09-29 03:55:21 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: ReverendJasen: broadsword: The average person buying the cheap (well, it's relative I guess) Home copy of Win 8 is still going to be able to install whatever crap they want.

Yes, exactly.
He's not being a hypocrite because he doesn't need to certify his game or sell it via the MS app store. There is no requirement (yet) that an application be certified to run or install on Windows 8. He's just telling MS, "fark your app store certification."

He's telling MS 'Fark your app store certification - the PC should be open!'

But he's telling the Xbox store 'I would like some money; please certify me'
And he's telling the Apple store 'I would like some money; please certify me'


Are either of those PCs? Are either of those a historically open platform?

So what was your point?
 
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