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(New York Daily News)   You and your middle school buddy have just murdered your great grandma in cold blood. What do you do next? a) leave evidence as bait to try to trap a patsy b) do a half-assed job of cleaning the scene c) eat pizza d) all of the above   (articles.nydailynews.com) divider line 197
    More: Sick, Olds, Iowa, middle schools, Sheboygan, first-degree murders  
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10956 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Sep 2012 at 12:55 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-29 10:37:33 AM

Gawdzila: you should start with reforming prisons into actual correctional facilities instead of criminal factories


Problem: Nobody has any farking idea how to actually do that; every experiment in rehabilitation of criminals that's been tried has failed miserably.

There are, in fact, only three known ways to reduce recidivism rates. Execution, imprisonment until late middle age, and castration.

Everything else is as effective as homeopathy.
 
2012-09-29 10:59:25 AM

AverageAmericanGuy: In this day and age, how are great grandparents still around? In general, the population is aging and having children later and later.

This is just such a weird story. How many people have great grandparents anymore?


My nephews have a great grandma. She still gets around just fine and, by all appearances, has many more years of gambling and drinking too much Bud Light left in her.
 
2012-09-29 11:01:08 AM

hodge-podge: [i49.tinypic.com image 500x282]


Once the hyperdrive is fixed I'll take you with me.
 
2012-09-29 11:07:51 AM

doglover: mkrieger: Ambivalence: Granted the murder was gruesom, but 13 is too young to charge someone as an "adult".

You are wrong

Actually, he's got a point.

Don't charge 'em as adults.

Don't even charge 'em as kids.

Charge 'em as transformers, and I don't mean the robots.

Good Point.

 
2012-09-29 11:09:08 AM
AbbeySomeone: vudukungfu: Ambivalence: Granted the murder was gruesom, but 13 is too young to charge someone as an "adult".

Sorry. There's hair on their balls.
They can walk the halls.

Either euthenise them or park them where they ain't getting out.

grass on the field...

Just put these boys down now or at least sterilize casrate them. They planned this and felt it was OK to behave this way. Time in incarceration isn't going to improve them.

FIFY.
 
2012-09-29 11:10:39 AM
My guess is that one of the two (and just judging by the mugshots, probably the one on the left) is a sick and twisted fark who had a heavy influence over the boy on the right who seems to have remorse in his eyes. Just doesn't seem likely that they are both harboring the same amount of crazy. So send the crazy kid to a hospital till he stops living and send the other one to juvy till he's 18 and re-evaluate his condition.
 
2012-09-29 11:13:18 AM

DisregardTheFollowing: My guess is that one of the two (and just judging by the mugshots, probably the one on the left) is a sick and twisted fark who had a heavy influence over the boy on the right who seems to have remorse in his eyes. Just doesn't seem likely that they are both harboring the same amount of crazy. So send the crazy kid to a hospital till he stops living and send the other one to juvy till he's 18 and re-evaluate his condition.


Yeah, but re-evaluate great-grandma's condition first.
 
2012-09-29 11:15:29 AM

lizardbrain: DisregardTheFollowing: My guess is that one of the two (and just judging by the mugshots, probably the one on the left) is a sick and twisted fark who had a heavy influence over the boy on the right who seems to have remorse in his eyes. Just doesn't seem likely that they are both harboring the same amount of crazy. So send the crazy kid to a hospital till he stops living and send the other one to juvy till he's 18 and re-evaluate his condition.

Yeah, but re-evaluate great-grandma's condition first.


You can if you want but that's gonna smell awful.
 
2012-09-29 11:40:43 AM

DisregardTheFollowing: My guess is that one of the two (and just judging by the mugshots, probably the one on the left) is a sick and twisted fark who had a heavy influence over the boy on the right who seems to have remorse in his eyes. Just doesn't seem likely that they are both harboring the same amount of crazy. So send the crazy kid to a hospital till he stops living and send the other one to juvy till he's 18 and re-evaluate his condition.


Send them both to the reaper now, and feel bad later in a nicer world where at least two murderous monsters won't kill any more old ladies for pocket change; y'know if a world without monsters who kill their own kin with a hatchet for pocket money are what you feel sorry without.
 
2012-09-29 11:59:40 AM

doglover: DisregardTheFollowing: My guess is that one of the two (and just judging by the mugshots, probably the one on the left) is a sick and twisted fark who had a heavy influence over the boy on the right who seems to have remorse in his eyes. Just doesn't seem likely that they are both harboring the same amount of crazy. So send the crazy kid to a hospital till he stops living and send the other one to juvy till he's 18 and re-evaluate his condition.

Send them both to the reaper now, and feel bad later in a nicer world where at least two murderous monsters won't kill any more old ladies for pocket change; y'know if a world without monsters who kill their own kin with a hatchet for pocket money are what you feel sorry without.


Oddly enough the only flaw I see in that logic (and it's a biggie) is that our society won't allow it. I wouldn't shed a tear if they were both hanged outside of the nearest Hot Topic to send a message to all the other little creeps. The presence of that sort of justice may very well detour thought processes that lead to that sort of action. I.E. one asshole kid says to the other "Yea we could do that, but you know they are just gonna kill us back tomorrow."

/Glad we are not that barbaric
//Slippery slope and whatnot
 
2012-09-29 12:13:08 PM
Obviously part of the 47%.
 
2012-09-29 12:29:44 PM

someonelse: Amazing how all the posters from yesterday's thread who knew the suspects would be black before they clicked aren't here. Guess the cross burnings ran late last night.


For real. Where is my cookie for assuming they were sick little crackers?
 
2012-09-29 12:49:51 PM

scalpod: Watch out for child predators!


+1, Sir.

locuslatus.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-29 01:15:15 PM

qualtrough: Kevin72: jmr61: rebelyell2006: AverageAmericanGuy: In this day and age, how are great grandparents still around? In general, the population is aging and having children later and later.

This is just such a weird story. How many people have great grandparents anymore?

Because white trash will still pop out their first litters when they turn 16.

I had a great grandmother for 23 years. She lived to be 101. Suck my dick.

I had a geat grandmother for 19 years. She lived until my grandfather was 75. Can I suck your dick?

C'mon you cocksuckers, there are other forums for that!



GET USED TO IT. No one says to find another forum when someone says " I'd hit it, boobies in envelope, or MILF" (or even VPILF up until a week after the convention when we found out what a vapid dizzbrain she was).
 
2012-09-29 01:20:30 PM

Great Janitor: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Great Janitor: These people took a life. They thought so little of the life that they took that they ate a pizza afterwards. They are animals, not human. The humane thing is to execute them.

Ah, I didn't realize you were a mental health professional that has had a chance to interview them in a professional capacity. Obviously I will defer to your expertise in the matter.

It doesn't take a mental health professional to see that these two boys need to either be locked away in a mental health facility for life or executed. No healthy person, regardless of age, kills another person in cold blood.


So you admit that you aren't healthy, because you are here calling for the killing of two 13 year olds in cold blood (or did you not know what cold blood means? It means you aren't killing them in self defense or through an emotional rage, but rather a planned ahead choice to take their lives).
 
2012-09-29 01:22:43 PM

insertcutename: AverageAmericanGuy: In this day and age, how are great grandparents still around? In general, the population is aging and having children later and later.

This is just such a weird story. How many people have great grandparents anymore?
.


10/10. Perfect troll. Sasha and Malia Obama both have a great-grandmother since Obama's Kenyan grandma is still around.
 
2012-09-29 01:25:08 PM

Carousel Beast: Smackledorfer: Ambivalence: Granted the murder was gruesom, but 13 is too young to charge someone as an "adult".

Agreed, and not because I think we have good odds of fixing these kids.

Kids are tried as kids because they are supposedly too young to appreciate their crimes. This is either true or it isn't.

Ah, the joy that is Zero Tolerance - because that's the same logic you're using.

Life isn't binary, and it's possible that one day you'll grow up to recognize that.


Amusing choice of words. Perhaps I should be tried as a child if I killed you then?
 
2012-09-29 01:34:44 PM

doglover: Gawdzila: I simply do not condone the idea of a government killing its citizens in retribution.

It's not about retribution. It's about protection.

If Old Yeller has rabies, you have to put him down.

If Little Timmy kills great grandma with a hatchet for pizza money, you have to put him down.


[news.doddleme.com image 350x250]

It's to keep society safe. Some things just can't be cured.


We'd better hang their parents, too, then. They're probably still young enough to make more.
 
2012-09-29 01:41:53 PM

Smackledorfer: Great Janitor: Sudo_Make_Me_A_Sandwich: Great Janitor: These people took a life. They thought so little of the life that they took that they ate a pizza afterwards. They are animals, not human. The humane thing is to execute them.

Ah, I didn't realize you were a mental health professional that has had a chance to interview them in a professional capacity. Obviously I will defer to your expertise in the matter.

It doesn't take a mental health professional to see that these two boys need to either be locked away in a mental health facility for life or executed. No healthy person, regardless of age, kills another person in cold blood.

So you admit that you aren't healthy, because you are here calling for the killing of two 13 year olds in cold blood (or did you not know what cold blood means? It means you aren't killing them in self defense or through an emotional rage, but rather a planned ahead choice to take their lives).


I find it to be perfectly human and healthy to want those two to take a dirt nap. There is a world of difference between some "loads that should have been swallowed" beating a 70 year old woman then burying an ax in her face and the guy who wants to see them burn for doing it. Most people want to correct a wrong that debased in a very extreme way. Wanting someone to die and actually killing them are two very different things. There are plenty of people I'd love to see bite it, however I'm not going to die with anyone's death on MY conscience.

/I'll giggle when they go though
 
2012-09-29 02:13:11 PM

DisregardTheFollowing: The presence of that sort of justice may very well detour thought processes that lead to that sort of action.


Take a look at the levels of violent crime in those cultures and then come back and try to say that violent retribution on the criminals will keep us safe.

Then take a look at the thought process of these 13 year old kids (or any murderer really) and ask yourself whether or not you think they were making a rational decision weighing the pros and cons of their actions. If they weren't, then upping the ante on punishment isn't going to make much difference.
 
2012-09-29 02:14:58 PM

Avery614: find it to be perfectly human and healthy to want those two to take a dirt nap. There is a world of difference between some "loads that should have been swallowed" beating a 70 year old woman then burying an ax in her face and the guy who wants to see them burn for doing it. Most people want to correct a wrong that debased in a very extreme way. Wanting someone to die and actually killing them are two very different things. There are plenty of people I'd love to see bite it, however I'm not going to die with anyone's death on MY conscience.

/I'll giggle when they go though


While I completely agree there is a difference between killing the innocent and killing the guilty, you are either just trolling or a fairly disturbed person.
 
2012-09-29 02:34:06 PM

someonelse: Amazing how all the posters from yesterday's thread who knew the suspects would be black before they clicked aren't here. Guess the cross burnings ran late last night.



There's a segment of posters here who simply can't wait to pounce on any story about black criminals (and they've got DOJ and FBI crime statistics seemingly saved on their desktops for any such threads). But when it's a story about white criminals...? Nothing. Nada. Crickets.

Funny that.
 
2012-09-29 02:37:30 PM

Smackledorfer: you are either just trolling or a fairly disturbed person.


Fairly disturbed is putting it a bit nicely.....

/fun to party with though
 
2012-09-29 02:43:41 PM

I Browse: There's a segment of posters here who simply can't wait to pounce on any story about black criminals (and they've got DOJ and FBI crime statistics seemingly saved on their desktops for any such threads). But when it's a story about white criminals...? Nothing. Nada. Crickets.

Funny that


Halfheartedly tried to find the clip but I think it was Chris Rock that said;" If an old lady gets knocked over and has her purse stolen it was probably a black guy. Now if the person stole her purse then cut out her eyes and used them for click clacks, you KNOW that's a white guy. White dudes have cornered the marked on crazy killings."

/or something like that
 
2012-09-29 02:46:38 PM

Ambivalence: Granted the murder was gruesom, but 13 is too young to charge someone as an "adult".


Fark that. I say kill them both. They are lost causes.
 
2012-09-29 02:51:55 PM
I say they need to be locked in a mental hospital, and given a lot of therapy, drugs, shock treatments, and maybe even a few beatings until they are either determined to be cured of their homicidal tendencies, or deemed incurably insane and left to rot in padded rooms until the reaper takes them in the natural course of things.

Prison won't do any good, and execution is too barbaric for someone so young, even if they are horrible. They may be fixable. Getting them out of the environment that produced this behavior is a start. If their brains truly are rotten to the core and immune to psychological repair, then there's no harm in leaving them in a hospital for the rest of their lives.
 
2012-09-29 03:16:46 PM

The All-Powerful Atheismo: "They also allegedly tried to dispose the victim's body, dragging her to the garage, but then abandoning the plan."

Man this body is HEAVY.... ah fark it.



That's the problem with kids these days. No work ethic. They even had Mom DRIVE them over to the victim's house. Back in my day, when we were going to beat grandma to death with a claw hammer we had to WALK 10 miles uphill, both ways. And we sure as hell we able to drag her body all over the place. Not like these lazy pukes.
 
2012-09-29 03:17:34 PM
Anecdotally......when I worked in the local schools, the boys who had that haircut were usually the biggest dicks in the class. Smart-mouthed, arrogant, already completely convinced of their superiority, which was kind of funny, since they were young teenagers.

But at least none of those little farkers beat grandma to death.
 
2012-09-29 03:27:28 PM

Fista-Phobia:


How much hairspray do they have to use to get those side swept mega bangs to stay in place? maybe they needed hairspray money...
 
2012-09-29 04:13:28 PM

ambassador_ahab: The Southern Dandy: Yeah, they're old enough to be responsible for murder, but don't let them vote or drink a beer. They aren't responsible enough for that.

By that logic, you're basically saying that once you reach a certain age, murder is legal.

The point is, not only did they break the law, but they broke a very serious law, and will not enjoy being locked up with the Booty Bandit.


Not sure if your problem is reading comprehension or just plain farked up logic. How do you get to "murder is legal by a certain age" from what I wrote?
 
2012-09-29 04:40:09 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-29 04:46:57 PM

The Southern Dandy: ambassador_ahab: The Southern Dandy: Yeah, they're old enough to be responsible for murder, but don't let them vote or drink a beer. They aren't responsible enough for that.

By that logic, you're basically saying that once you reach a certain age, murder is legal.

The point is, not only did they break the law, but they broke a very serious law, and will not enjoy being locked up with the Booty Bandit.

Not sure if your problem is reading comprehension or just plain farked up logic. How do you get to "murder is legal by a certain age" from what I wrote?


I agree with you that ambassador_ahab missed your point, but were you trying to imply that if someone is old enough to make a horribly bad decision and kill somebody, then they should be allowed to drink and vote?
 
2012-09-29 05:10:48 PM

RogermcAllen: Ambivalence: Granted the murder was gruesom, but 13 is too young to charge someone as an "adult".

They could go go juvenile court if they asked for the money, got denied, pushed her down, and she accidentally died when she hit her head on table.

The fact they they brought the weapons, hit her several times, and tried to stash the body shows that there is truly something wrong with these kids. 

/in my day we respected our elders
//or at least were smart enough to steal from people with more than spare change


But wouldn't this be an argument against charging them as adults? Because they're thirteen-year-olds, this is a case that would require a totally different set of information than for an adult. For example, was this stemming from serious abuse? A neurological condition? Those are questions you must answer with a child that can't always be answered with an adult.

They are not neurologically developed enough for charging them as adults to be anything but trying to hammer in a screw. Sure, it works, but you just totally destroyed the screw, and if you'd been using a screwdriver, it might have been salvageable.
 
2012-09-29 05:21:31 PM
content8.flixster.com
 
2012-09-29 06:53:55 PM
Is life imprisonment not more cruel than death? I would much rather be shot by 100 daisy red rider bb guns at a medium pace until dead than live in prison. I seems that the vast majority of posters in this thread agree that prison is punitive and not rehabilitative. Why pay to keep non-contributional monsters like Charlie M and this little Barbeau D-Bag around? Put them in a shiatty cell and give them a cyanide capsule. If they choose to swallow, great. If not, let them rot away. That way it will be their decision and everybody can sleep at night.
 
2012-09-29 07:08:50 PM

The Southern Dandy: Not sure if your problem is reading comprehension or just plain farked up logic. How do you get to "murder is legal by a certain age" from what I wrote?


Just reverse it. Let's say they are old enough and responsible enough to legally drink beer and vote. Then they must also be old enough and responsible enough to commit murder as well, right?
 
2012-09-29 07:34:55 PM
At 13, it is possible that these children may be salvageable, but they won't be salvaged. We do not have the resources, or the mindset, to rehabilitate them. If they are so broken at 13 that they think nothing of killing GGma with an axe and going for pizza, and if we lock them up at 13, which needs to happen, then they are done. They will finish maturing, as much as they are ever able to mature, in an environment that makes better criminals, not better humans. They will be further damaged, not healed.

These two are finished. They will never be safe in society. They need to be tried as adults and locked up for life.

/against the DP
 
2012-09-29 08:06:47 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: In this day and age, how are great grandparents still around? In general, the population is aging and having children later and later.

This is just such a weird story. How many people have great grandparents anymore?


Dude...go watch that "Honey BooBoo" show. The thumb-headed woman is a grandmother @ 32. *THATS* how you get great-grandmothers these days.
 
2012-09-29 08:30:27 PM

AverageAmericanGuy: In this day and age, how are great grandparents still around? In general, the population is aging and having children later and later.

This is just such a weird story. How many people have great grandparents anymore?


My friend's new granddaughter has five GREAT-GREAT grandparents.
 
2012-09-29 09:44:54 PM
There is one branch of my extended family that we really don't talk about, or to, where for generations they've been popping out the firstborn right around age 15. So Grandma is 30, Great Grandma is 45, Great-great grandma is 60, Great-great-great grandma is 75, and last time I heard, Great-great-great-great grandma was a spry 90.

They live in Florida.
 
2012-09-29 09:58:56 PM

HighZoolander: The Southern Dandy: ambassador_ahab: The Southern Dandy: Yeah, they're old enough to be responsible for murder, but don't let them vote or drink a beer. They aren't responsible enough for that.

By that logic, you're basically saying that once you reach a certain age, murder is legal.

The point is, not only did they break the law, but they broke a very serious law, and will not enjoy being locked up with the Booty Bandit.

Not sure if your problem is reading comprehension or just plain farked up logic. How do you get to "murder is legal by a certain age" from what I wrote?

I agree with you that ambassador_ahab missed your point, but were you trying to imply that if someone is old enough to make a horribly bad decision and kill somebody, then they should be allowed to drink and vote?


No, the opposite. If someone isn't capable of being responsible for voting, how can we think that they're capable of being responsible for murder?
 
2012-09-29 10:03:07 PM

ambassador_ahab: The Southern Dandy: Not sure if your problem is reading comprehension or just plain farked up logic. How do you get to "murder is legal by a certain age" from what I wrote?

Just reverse it. Let's say they are old enough and responsible enough to legally drink beer and vote. Then they must also be old enough and responsible enough to commit murder as well, right?


Right. And if they're not old enough, then they're responsible enough, and should therefore be treated differently than we treat adults. That's why we have juvenile courts.
 
2012-09-30 05:38:39 AM

I Browse: someonelse: Amazing how all the posters from yesterday's thread who knew the suspects would be black before they clicked aren't here. Guess the cross burnings ran late last night.


There's a segment of posters here who simply can't wait to pounce on any story about black criminals (and they've got DOJ and FBI crime statistics seemingly saved on their desktops for any such threads). But when it's a story about white criminals...? Nothing. Nada. Crickets.

Funny that.


Whitey tends to kill those they know. It's the murder of strangers during trivial robberies that really freak people out. I've not noticed white muggers/convenience store robbers being so vicious. But then whitey picks up again in nastiness if they are involved in big time robberies like armored cars. I guess people feel closer to the randomness of being in a store or mugged that they don't want to die because of.
 
2012-09-30 10:10:27 AM
This thread is full of people who think they know what happened. And then use the information they think they have to call for the death of children.

The Taliban is live and well, and it is right here on fark.
 
2012-09-30 01:48:37 PM

Aeon Rising: The Taliban is live and well, and it is right here on fark.


Lighten up Francis.

/alive
 
2012-09-30 02:47:36 PM
great. another reason i can't have 13 year old boys at the house
 
2012-10-02 03:25:23 AM

Aeon Rising: This thread is full of people who think they know what happened. And then use the information they think they have to call for the death of children.

The Taliban is live and well, and it is right here on fark.


Some of us said no such thing, just 'charge as adults'. Most states aren't using the death penalty currently, so please remember lots of us might not even have been thinking that way at all. Taking them out of society, on the other hand, is probably a good first step for a while.
 
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