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(Slashdot)   Microsoft calls for $5BN investment into US education. Texas agrees, stating that'd build at least half a dozen high school football stadiums   (news.slashdot.org) divider line 89
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1628 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Sep 2012 at 2:48 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-28 11:22:16 AM  
Or a carpeted admin building with solid oak desks, large expensive video and audio systems, and posh lounge. Oh, and a state of the art training/field house.
 
2012-09-28 11:39:44 AM  
Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.
 
2012-09-28 12:42:11 PM  
Raise $5bn based on higher fees on highly skilled labor coming into the U.S. . . . uh, I don't think that'll work the way they expect it to. Instead, you'll probably find that high tech, bio tech, and similar companies are suddenly going to have massive issues finding and hiring leading non-American researchers (and educators).

Don't get me wrong, I support a $5bn investment in US education, but I think we should consider paying for it out of taxes, not new fees.
 
2012-09-28 12:46:56 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


Yeah, after all, if high schools don't value athleticism over academic achievement, how are we going to show the geeks and nerds what their place in life is?

More seriously though, if high school football is almost paying for itself, can we separate it from the educational system entirely please? Perhaps remind these schools that they're supposed to be teaching kids to read rather than providing a farm system for College Football?
 
2012-09-28 01:47:51 PM  

SphericalTime: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.

Yeah, after all, if high schools don't value athleticism over academic achievement, how are we going to show the geeks and nerds what their place in life is?

More seriously though, if high school football is almost paying for itself, can we separate it from the educational system entirely please? Perhaps remind these schools that they're supposed to be teaching kids to read rather than providing a farm system for College Football?


I tend to flip-flop on that issue. Why is it good for a school to prepare students for a career as an engineer, architect, teacher, artist, etc; but then suddenly not ok to prepare them for a professional sports career?

High school is too young to dedicate yourself to a particular career path though, so yes the schools do need a reminder that the students aren't just there for football.

/ As for it paying for itself though... there's demand to go to those games. If the stadium sucks, that demand goes down, as does revenue.
// You said high school football "almost" pays for itself. I was under the impression that most of the multi-million dollar high school stadiums in Texas were actually generating more revenue than they cost, but I might be remembering incorrectly.
 
2012-09-28 02:07:13 PM  
i249.photobucket.com

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.
 
2012-09-28 02:52:39 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


Because that's what an EDUCATIONAL institution should be worried about....
 
2012-09-28 03:07:55 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


That means all high school sports are money drains, so we might as well get rid of them all.
 
2012-09-28 03:08:57 PM  

serial_crusher: I tend to flip-flop on that issue. Why is it good for a school to prepare students for a career as an engineer, architect, teacher, artist, etc; but then suddenly not ok to prepare them for a professional sports career?


Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.
 
2012-09-28 03:11:08 PM  
You don't need any new funding sources. Shift funding from programs with lesser returns (college financial assistance, job retraining, etc.) to those with the most (preschool and elementary education). Give kids a solid foundation and much of the rest will follow, or at least have more options for support.
 
2012-09-28 03:11:58 PM  

Mr. Eugenides: Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.


Actually, I think we should set aside a separate career path for professional athletes. They can be recruited at a young age, be trained to the pinnacle of physical fitness and provide entertainment and enjoyment for millions of people. At thirty, when the ravages of time start to take their toll and it's obvious they are no longer useful to society as individuals, we can render their lean muscle mass into high-end steaks, chops and hamburgers.
 
2012-09-28 03:12:21 PM  

UberDave: Or a carpeted admin building with solid oak desks, large expensive video and audio systems, and posh lounge. Oh, and a state of the art training/field house.


Oh you're in Prince William, Co. Virginia?
 
2012-09-28 03:14:43 PM  
After watching the Frontline episode this week titled "Dropout High" or something similar, my feeling is that more money to education will do nothing. We continue to throw money at failing kids, from failure parents, and they still don't go to class or graduate. All the effort and money spent would have been better spent on kids who actually go to class or care about school.

Yes, I know that they come from tough backgrounds, no family unit etc. After the 22nd chance I stop caring.
 
2012-09-28 03:18:28 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


That is 100% not true. And since I am on a school board and chair the finance board I might actually know something about this.

Activity fees from students, sponsorship/advertising, and concession / tickets sales do bring in some revenue, but it isn't anywhere close to paying for:
Facility capitalization or rental
Facility maintenance and security
Equipment purchasing and maintenance
Groundskeeping
Insurance
Transportation
Coaching / trainer salaries

Football is a huge money sponge, absorbing more net budget dollars than many other entire departments. My district spends more tax dollars on football than art or music.
 
2012-09-28 03:20:01 PM  

give me doughnuts: A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.


When I was a sophomore in college, a roomie of mine was from Midland. He said they spent more on rushing play-by-play photographs (non-digital, this was in 1990) to the coach for halftime strategy sessions than they did on the entire English Department at the high school.
 
2012-09-28 03:22:01 PM  

give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.


Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...
 
2012-09-28 03:23:17 PM  
My goal is to get my kid the best education (currently in Montessori) through his early 20's without any concussions or permanent brain damage. If he wants to take up football, boxing or crack cocaine after college then that's his decision.

Of course, I'll still kick his ass. But it's his decision.
 
2012-09-28 03:27:25 PM  

Fabric_Man: give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.

Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...


It isn't like that everywhere.

A school levy narrowly failed last fall in my district. It was a $60M levy over 10 years, but it failed primarily because it included a $1M refit of the football field which would include usable bleacher, concession area, and restrooms. Other local districts have the equivalent, but the local taxpayers didn't want to foot the bill for unnecessary spending. I can see both sides of the issue. Our district adds about 300 students each year and we need the money to build (already hit bonding limits). We really need the money and the cuts and caps have been rough. We continue to rent a nearby football field that belongs to a university for $50k/year - but they get to keep the concession money.
 
2012-09-28 03:29:53 PM  

theorellior: Mr. Eugenides: Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.

Actually, I think we should set aside a separate career path for professional athletes. They can be recruited at a young age, be trained to the pinnacle of physical fitness and provide entertainment and enjoyment for millions of people. At thirty, when the ravages of time start to take their toll and it's obvious they are no longer useful to society as individuals, we can render their lean muscle mass into high-end steaks, chops and hamburgers.


Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first. The O-line would make a nice filet. Not that I know anything about about humans taste.
 
2012-09-28 03:30:44 PM  
So, like a 0.1% annual increase in overall educational spending?
 
2012-09-28 03:33:51 PM  

bdub77: Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first.


How about sausage?
 
2012-09-28 03:34:03 PM  

bdub77: Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first. The O-line would make a nice filet. Not that I know anything about about humans taste.


Athletes will fatten up all on their own once they retire. Their metabolism crashes when they start being sedentary, and they don't start eating less.
 
2012-09-28 03:35:19 PM  
It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.
 
2012-09-28 03:38:07 PM  
Our HS used the local college field for their football games (as well as track events). I don't know if they paid them or what, but they have been doing it for at least 20 years, if not longer.

But, the town itself is full of doctors and college professors. So, it was a well funded HS in the middle of a cornfield.
 
2012-09-28 03:38:12 PM  

theorellior: Mr. Eugenides: Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.

Actually, I think we should set aside a separate career path for professional athletes. They can be recruited at a young age, be trained to the pinnacle of physical fitness and provide entertainment and enjoyment for millions of people. At thirty, when the ravages of time start to take their toll and it's obvious they are no longer useful to society as individuals, we can render their lean muscle mass into high-end steaks, chops and hamburgers.


I'd prefer to have fewer steroids in my meats, thank you.
 
2012-09-28 03:40:35 PM  
Newark NJ spends roughly 20K per student *
Asbury Park NJ spends about 25K per student
Camden NJ spends about 18K per student

* Newarks is the most expensive school district in the world, no other school district in the WORLD spends more money per year than the Newark school district

All of the above school districts are failures beyond repair

Spending more money actually made the districts worse
 
2012-09-28 03:41:00 PM  

Fabric_Man: I'd prefer to have fewer steroids in my meats, thank you.


That's why there would be grades of product, just like in beef. Prime and choice would by definition have fewer adulterants.
 
2012-09-28 03:47:26 PM  

Fabric_Man: give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.

Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...


I'm with you also...

Imagine all of the science and educational equipment that could have bought. They could have been pumping out intelligent kids instead they are pumping out worthless entertainers.
 
2012-09-28 03:48:01 PM  

MugzyBrown: But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.


No, regulations change a lot. They do exactly what Congress & the regulatory agencies intend.

/Regulations are intended to punish new entrants into a marketplace, favor the larger competitors who can afford the new regulatory burden, and push smaller firms out of business/being acquired by the larger sharks/firms.
/Too big to fail? Try: too small to survive
 
2012-09-28 03:52:59 PM  

MugzyBrown: It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.


School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives. They spew out a bunch of dire scenarios based on fear of what "might" happen rather than looking at the possibilities that would come from innovation. They attack anyone who utters the word "accountability" as hating education and/or teachers. They reject questions, advice or offers of consultation with an "educators know best, just pay us what we want, give us more funding and let us do things our way" attitude.

In short, it shows what the education establishment is all about... protecting their own interests rather than promoting the interests of their students.
 
2012-09-28 03:53:29 PM  
I'm sitting about 2 blocks from Southlake Carroll's stadium so i'm getting a kick..
 
2012-09-28 03:57:36 PM  
Sigh, another "shortage of skilled workers" article. We've got a country full of people with science and engineering degrees delivering pizzas and manning call centers. There's a shortage all right - of patience and flexibility on the hiring side.
 
2012-09-28 03:57:39 PM  

give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.


on the plus side Allan has an _amazing_ concrete skatepark that is free no-less. When I was a kid Allan was just a bump on 75 North but they struck it rich when growth exploded Northward from Dallas.
 
2012-09-28 03:59:24 PM  

fluffy2097: bdub77: Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first. The O-line would make a nice filet. Not that I know anything about about humans taste.

Athletes will fatten up all on their own once they retire. Their metabolism crashes when they start being sedentary, and they don't start eating less.


It's being sedentary combined with all the carbs they used to eat to sustain their athletic needs. Carbs are horrible for metabolism without exercise. If they switched to a fat and protein heavy diet (a healthy one) they'd be better off.
 
2012-09-28 04:05:01 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: MugzyBrown: It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.

School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives. They spew out a bunch of dire scenarios based on fear of what "might" happen rather than looking at the possibilities that would come from innovation. They attack anyone who utters the word "accountability" as hating education and/or teachers. They reject questions, advice or offers of consultation with an "educators know best, just pay us what we want, give us more funding and let us do things our way" attitude.

In short, it shows what the education establishment is all about... protecting their own interests rather than promoting the interests of their students.


You described the NJEA
 
2012-09-28 04:05:34 PM  

madgonad: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.

That is 100% not true. And since I am on a school board and chair the finance board I might actually know something about this.

Activity fees from students, sponsorship/advertising, and concession / tickets sales do bring in some revenue, but it isn't anywhere close to paying for:
Facility capitalization or rental
Facility maintenance and security
Equipment purchasing and maintenance
Groundskeeping
Insurance
Transportation
Coaching / trainer salaries

Football is a huge money sponge, absorbing more net budget dollars than many other entire departments. My district spends more tax dollars on football than art or music.


Ok so your team isn't doing so well. In my neck of the woods it's funds all the other sports programs. It may just be a bible belt thing, but we would have womans field hockey if we didnt have football.
 
2012-09-28 04:09:35 PM  
Funding is not the problem. All of my following comments pertain to failing school districts. Not all districts are failing. Most urban districts are failing.

You want to see a kid learn something in a hurry? Spend $60 on a copy of Skyrim and sit him in front of a computer with it. My 6 year old has practically mastered the game including cheats without any instruction other than being shown how to launch the game.

Our local Public Schools spend $14,600 per student per year and achieve some of the worst grades in the country. They cant motivate kids to learn. Bethesda Software can do it, but schools cant.

That is the basic problem with public schools. Kids go there because its free and the law says you have to. No one goes there to learn anymore.

If you get into a deep discussion with School admins about the things that are really important it boils down to getting seats in chairs so the funding levels remain consistent. School has become a social service for the poor. They brag more about the services they provide beyond education than they do about the test scores.
 
2012-09-28 04:10:53 PM  
Ok so your team isn't doing so well. In my neck of the woods it's funds all the other sports programs. It may just be a bible belt thing, but we would have womans field hockey if we didnt have football.

Not sure why tax dollars have to fund either. Why can't the town have a sports team funded only by fees paid by the players and attendence?

Removing the school and sports link in highschool and college would do wonders for the sports, athletes and students.
 
2012-09-28 04:19:50 PM  
Bill Gates has done a lot for third world countries with charity work but it's time he gave something back to the country that made him rich.

If Gates took ONE state, say Wa or Oregon and dumped a few billion into the education in that state in 3 or 4 years there would be a significant measureable improvement. Then the US as a country could not ignore improving the education system...
 
2012-09-28 04:20:09 PM  

archichris: Funding is not the problem. All of my following comments pertain to failing school districts. Not all districts are failing. Most urban districts are failing.

You want to see a kid learn something in a hurry? Spend $60 on a copy of Skyrim and sit him in front of a computer with it. My 6 year old has practically mastered the game including cheats without any instruction other than being shown how to launch the game.

Our local Public Schools spend $14,600 per student per year and achieve some of the worst grades in the country. They cant motivate kids to learn. Bethesda Software can do it, but schools cant.

That is the basic problem with public schools. Kids go there because its free and the law says you have to. No one goes there to learn anymore.

If you get into a deep discussion with School admins about the things that are really important it boils down to getting seats in chairs so the funding levels remain consistent. School has become a social service for the poor. They brag more about the services they provide beyond education than they do about the test scores.


Did you just equate Skyrim to education...not sure if serious...
 
2012-09-28 04:23:46 PM  

HeliumAddict: If Gates took ONE state, say Wa or Oregon and dumped a few billion into the education in that state in 3 or 4 years there would be a significant measureable improvement. Then the US as a country could not ignore improving the education system...


Not if he dumped it into the state education system.
 
2012-09-28 04:24:21 PM  

DECMATH: There's a shortage all right - of patience and flexibility on the hiring side.


Ummmm, we're only hiring people with 6 years experience in iOS 5 and can do multitable lookup queries while hand-coding HTML. Starting salary is $25K and you'll have to work nights to keep up with our outsourced data center. Training? You should have looked up phoenix.edu before you came in here, slacker.
 
2012-09-28 04:26:29 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Did you just equate Skyrim to education...not sure if serious...


Everyone knows that before public schools ruined everything children just took to higher math, organic chemistry and dark matter physics like they were playing Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, yo.
 
2012-09-28 04:26:58 PM  
Your kids are educated based on how much you want them to be. If you get involved then they will. If you don't, your town builds a $50 million dollar football stadium for the little league parents who are vocal about it.

Which is pretty much the entire state of Texas.
 
2012-09-28 04:30:07 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: After watching the Frontline episode this week titled "Dropout High" or something similar, my feeling is that more money to education will do nothing. We continue to throw money at failing kids, from failure parents, and they still don't go to class or graduate. All the effort and money spent would have been better spent on kids who actually go to class or care about school.

Yes, I know that they come from tough backgrounds, no family unit etc. After the 22nd chance I stop caring.


Apparently just up and paying the kids to show up provides results. Which would make sense, most adults accept the same sort of scheme.
 
2012-09-28 04:31:22 PM  
That might cover a handful of states Teacher's pension funds, but sadly, I don't think the money would go to students.

And I'm voting yes on a bond measure to rebuild a couple of schools that don't have working heat or AC, as well as replace ancient textbooks.

//Already checked, creationism is strictly not allowed in the science classroom, only in social studies or comparative religion classes.
 
2012-09-28 04:31:46 PM  

HeliumAddict: Bill Gates has done a lot for third world countries with charity work but it's time he gave something back to the country that made him rich.


Apparently $6 billion, including tens of millions for early learning in the state of WA alone, isn't enough for you.
 
2012-09-28 04:37:52 PM  
If ya'll want to learn more about science and other "cultures" and what have you, maybe you should move up north.
 
2012-09-28 04:42:29 PM  

dantheman195: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: MugzyBrown: It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.

School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives. They spew out a bunch of dire scenarios based on fear of what "might" happen rather than looking at the possibilities that would come from innovation. They attack anyone who utters the word "accountability" as hating education and/or teachers. They reject questions, advice or offers of consultation with an "educators know best, just pay us what we want, give us more funding and let us do things our way" attitude.

In short, it shows what the education establishment is all about... protecting their own interests rather than promoting the interests of their students.

You described the NJEA


New Jersey has the LOWEST drop out rate in the country. Dead last! By a huge margin over many of the worst states (North Carolina, Texas, etc?)

Maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of our public schools are doing something right?

And maybe, just maybe, since we lead the nation, we should be a model for other states to follow?
 
2012-09-28 04:48:05 PM  

DECMATH: Sigh, another "shortage of skilled workers" article. We've got a country full of people with science and engineering degrees delivering pizzas and manning call centers. There's a shortage all right - of patience and flexibility on the hiring side.


When it comes to getting hired, giving a good interview or writing a good resume is more important than actually being able to do the job. Having "HR people" in charge of hiring is the worst thing that can happen.

(actually I have no idea if that's true but it sounds plausible enought to be annoying)
 
2012-09-28 04:51:44 PM  

Jormungandr: AmbassadorBooze: After watching the Frontline episode this week titled "Dropout High" or something similar, my feeling is that more money to education will do nothing. We continue to throw money at failing kids, from failure parents, and they still don't go to class or graduate. All the effort and money spent would have been better spent on kids who actually go to class or care about school.

Yes, I know that they come from tough backgrounds, no family unit etc. After the 22nd chance I stop caring.

Apparently just up and paying the kids to show up provides results. Which would make sense, most adults accept the same sort of scheme.


I am for anything that works. I would like to see lots of little experiments to find things that work. Paying them to go to school, fine, if it works. For the ones that don't show up, I would like to be able to fire them, just like the adults.

I had this crazy thought one day while doing some menial labor. Start a 20 year countdown program. Big lights, signs etc... In 20 years, anyone born after 2015 (or their children) will not be able to get any sort of federal or state benefits if the recipient does not have a HS diploma or equivalent. Except for people with diagnosed medical problems (mental retardation, brain injury, etc...). Every day, ram it down the public's throat, that there are only 20 years left, 15 years left, 1 year left, 20 days left. If 20 years of constant media assault cannot get a person to get a HS degree, fark them. During the 20 year countdown, fund the schools double or triple, do whatever it takes. At 20 years and one day, the savings start rolling in. There will be a generation that has diplomas, and are better prepared to work and pay taxes, and no taxes are going to people without the minimum bar that society has set for success. If a person doesn't have a diploma but is still successful, good on them.
 
2012-09-28 04:58:02 PM  

give me doughnuts: A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.


Um, that can be used for other things besides football. For example, you can clear some of the cars and let the soccer team play games in the parking lot.
 
2012-09-28 05:03:46 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: HeliumAddict: Bill Gates has done a lot for third world countries with charity work but it's time he gave something back to the country that made him rich.

Apparently $6 billion, including tens of millions for early learning in the state of WA alone, isn't enough for you.


media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-28 06:04:04 PM  

theurge14: Your kids are educated based on how much you want them to be


Agreed. No amount of spending at school will counteract parents who are too busy or too unwilling to help their children.
 
2012-09-28 06:24:29 PM  
You know what will solve the problem?

Christianity.

Go back to very little divorce, stay at home moms and stable families. This will produce stable kids motivated to learn. This will produce a stable society.
 
2012-09-28 06:43:30 PM  

xenomorpheus: Fabric_Man: give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.

Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...

I'm with you also...

Imagine all of the science and educational equipment that could have bought. They could have been pumping out intelligent kids instead they are pumping out worthless entertainers.


How would the GOP get votes then?
 
2012-09-28 06:53:04 PM  
Education in America has become a Ponzi scheme.
 
2012-09-28 07:04:35 PM  

aegean: You know what will solve the problem?

Christianity.

Go back to very little divorce, stay at home moms and stable families. This will produce stable kids motivated to learn. This will produce a stable society.


I dunno if you are trolling or not - but I think I actually agree. And I say this as an Atheist/Agnostic...
 
2012-09-28 07:17:52 PM  

serial_crusher:

I tend to flip-flop on that issue. Why is it good for a school to prepare students for a career as an engineer, architect, teacher, artist, etc; but then suddenly not ok to prepare them for a professional sports career?

can't tell if your being facetious or not. all the listed careers provide some positive value to society. football is equivalent to a jester; simple entertainment. given the genetic luck required and lack of sustainable, alternative options, its not a viable career to be trained for in a public educational system. having a system similar to how global soccer powerhouses recruit would actually benefit potential athletes.
 
2012-09-28 07:27:02 PM  

Fark_Guy_Rob: aegean: You know what will solve the problem?

Christianity.

Go back to very little divorce, stay at home moms and stable families. This will produce stable kids motivated to learn. This will produce a stable society.

I dunno if you are trolling or not - but I think I actually agree. And I say this as an Atheist/Agnostic...


Depends on what kind of Christianity he's talking about. If he means some sort of belief system by which the believer actually attempts to emulate and live by the tenets of Jesus of Nazareth, as stated in the Bible - well, that would be interesting. I've never actually seen any sort of Christianity like that practiced, so I don't know.
 
2012-09-28 07:50:39 PM  
folkonfolks.com
 
2012-09-28 07:52:15 PM  
Without RTFA, it's a good idea, but just a teeny bit late. Apple started investing in education in the 80s -- by putting their computers into classrooms. Kids might not have gotten smarter, but Apple sold a shiatload of computers and created a generation of iKids.

That's not necessarily a good thing, but it's true.

/Not the Apple fan I was when I created my user name.
 
2012-09-28 07:56:40 PM  

Elephantman: [folkonfolks.com image 335x226]


That relation makes no sense. Why would you put an equals sign after an inequality. Bad math notation is bad.
 
2012-09-28 07:57:44 PM  

sn0wblind: serial_crusher:

I tend to flip-flop on that issue. Why is it good for a school to prepare students for a career as an engineer, architect, teacher, artist, etc; but then suddenly not ok to prepare them for a professional sports career?

can't tell if your being facetious or not. all the listed careers provide some positive value to society. football is equivalent to a jester; simple entertainment. given the genetic luck required and lack of sustainable, alternative options, its not a viable career to be trained for in a public educational system. having a system similar to how global soccer powerhouses recruit would actually benefit potential athletes.


shrug, I threw "artist" in there specifically because I wanted an example of something that (imho) doesn't provide any positive value to society; aside from entertainment, which I don't see is necessarily any different than the entertainment a professional athlete provides.

If nothing else, athletes provide role models to get children involved in healthy activities. We desperately need more of that.
 
2012-09-28 08:18:05 PM  

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives.



Maybe where you live, but having lived in the South for most of my life I can tell you school choice is about two things:

1) Being able to teach that the earth is 6000 years old is scientific fact
2) Keeping little Billy far away from Tyrone

It's not about education. Many of the "Christian Academy" schools they set up can't even get accredited. Well, except by accreditation agencies made up just for the purpose of accrediting the non-accreditible. So now they not only want to keep their children from knowing about the real world, the want to come up with a way to make taxpayers pony up the money for this non-education.
 
2012-09-28 08:24:31 PM  

xenomorpheus: Fabric_Man: give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.

Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...

I'm with you also...

Imagine all of the science and educational equipment that could have bought. They could have been pumping out intelligent kids instead they are pumping out worthless entertainers.


I'm always torn on this one because, at least at the college level, sports programs bring in more money than they cost. If they're turning a profit or breaking even, I have a hard time justifying my complaints, even if it leaves a terrible taste in my mouth. On the flip side though, for some reason, football seems to foster a distinctly anti-intellectual culture; the cost of which on a school is hard to take into account when seeing if that new facility is worth it.
 
2012-09-28 08:27:46 PM  

SphericalTime: Raise $5bn based on higher fees on highly skilled labor coming into the U.S. . . . uh, I don't think that'll work the way they expect it to. Instead, you'll probably find that high tech, bio tech, and similar companies are suddenly going to have massive issues finding and hiring leading non-American researchers (and educators).

Don't get me wrong, I support a $5bn investment in US education, but I think we should consider paying for it out of taxes, not new fees.


Traditionally, the reason for hiring foreign workers is to pay them less than native workers. If so, the way to solve that problem is to charge a fee equal to the difference in salary between native and foreign workers, removing that incentive.

And if companies are still importing workers because your citizens don't have the right skill set, while unemplyment is high, the solution to THAT is to start to train up your workers in that skill set.
 
2012-09-28 08:50:47 PM  
Sadly subby your headline is not far off the truth as far as Texas is considered.
 
2012-09-28 09:33:51 PM  
Hey subtard, in Texas the communities pay for the stadiums based on taxes they voted for and donations.... But continue trolling bro
 
2012-09-28 10:00:14 PM  

tbhouston: Hey subtard, in Texas the communities pay for the stadiums based on taxes they voted for and donations.... But continue trolling bro


We know that. The point was that Texans will willingly pour millions into gilding anything football, but won't spend a penny more than they have to on teaching English, history, or science.
 
2012-09-28 10:35:11 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: Jormungandr: AmbassadorBooze: After watching the Frontline episode this week titled "Dropout High" or something similar, my feeling is that more money to education will do nothing. We continue to throw money at failing kids, from failure parents, and they still don't go to class or graduate. All the effort and money spent would have been better spent on kids who actually go to class or care about school.

Yes, I know that they come from tough backgrounds, no family unit etc. After the 22nd chance I stop caring.

Apparently just up and paying the kids to show up provides results. Which would make sense, most adults accept the same sort of scheme.

I am for anything that works. I would like to see lots of little experiments to find things that work. Paying them to go to school, fine, if it works. For the ones that don't show up, I would like to be able to fire them, just like the adults.

I had this crazy thought one day while doing some menial labor. Start a 20 year countdown program. Big lights, signs etc... In 20 years, anyone born after 2015 (or their children) will not be able to get any sort of federal or state benefits if the recipient does not have a HS diploma or equivalent. Except for people with diagnosed medical problems (mental retardation, brain injury, etc...). Every day, ram it down the public's throat, that there are only 20 years left, 15 years left, 1 year left, 20 days left. If 20 years of constant media assault cannot get a person to get a HS degree, fark them. During the 20 year countdown, fund the schools double or triple, do whatever it takes. At 20 years and one day, the savings start rolling in. There will be a generation that has diplomas, and are better prepared to work and pay taxes, and no taxes are going to people without the minimum bar that society has set for success. If a person doesn't have a diploma but is still successful, good on them.


What happens to the people who are 20+ and don't have a diploma or a job? It's terrible to think of welfare as paying people not to commit crimes, but...
 
2012-09-28 10:51:40 PM  

organizmx: dantheman195: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: MugzyBrown: It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.

School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives. They spew out a bunch of dire scenarios based on fear of what "might" happen rather than looking at the possibilities that would come from innovation. They attack anyone who utters the word "accountability" as hating education and/or teachers. They reject questions, advice or offers of consultation with an "educators know best, just pay us what we want, give us more funding and let us do things our way" attitude.

In short, it shows what the education establishment is all about... protecting their own interests rather than promoting the interests of their students.

You described the NJEA

New Jersey has the LOWEST drop out rate in the country. Dead last! By a huge margin over many of the worst states (North Carolina, Texas, etc?)

Maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of our public schools are doing something right?

And maybe, just maybe, since we lead the nation, we should be a model for other states to follow?


Just because you suck less than everyone else, does not make you a model for everyone else to follow. I want excellence and I want excellence to be recognized. I also believe that the NJEA does not care about excellence, because if they did, they would have PUSHED for tenure reform in NJ instead of being forced by Chris Christie to accept it.

The NJEA brings nothing, absoluteley nothing, to the table of education in the state of NJ. If the NJEA was abolished tomorrow, the great teachers will still get up and do the great work that they do and the lousy and mediocre teachers will probably look for another job they can slack off at.
 
2012-09-28 10:57:28 PM  
www.soccer-tricks.net
There are other ways, hell, BETTER ways of training kids for a career as a professional athlete than school teams. We're the only country that does amateur drafts where the worst teams get rewarded, as well.
 
2012-09-28 11:11:11 PM  

SN1987a goes boom: Elephantman: [folkonfolks.com image 335x226]

That relation makes no sense. Why would you put an equals sign after an inequality. Bad math notation is bad.


But you only know that makes no sense because you understand the maths behind it.
 
2012-09-28 11:14:03 PM  

Can't_Think_Of_A_Name: AmbassadorBooze: Jormungandr: AmbassadorBooze: After watching the Frontline episode this week....

What happens to the people who are 20+ and don't have a dipl ...



My idiotic plan says to continue the current status quo for the 20 + year old for another 80 years. It is a slow way to improve the lot of society, but better than not improving. Also I have seen the fear and paranoia that any proposed change to social securety has, even if we say the change wont haappen until 2035. I think we have the ability to institute changes for people not born yet (and therefore not technically stupid yet.) Now true to my fark handle, I must meet with a delegation of different alcohols and get them to agree to get in me.
 
2012-09-28 11:16:46 PM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


Keyword: ALMOST.

In economically depressed areas where the parents cry poor and insist they 'can't afford' $5 tickets, let alone tax levies to actually keep the schools up to standards, high school football has been known to eat up the budget for every extracurricular from student-government to band to the arts and well into math. I live in an area that spends more on effing football for JV and high-school varsity than it does on math for the entire K-12 system.

If the odds of becoming a professional athlete were even CLOSE to any other, more reasonable career, and if athletes didn't require absurdly high salaries because they literally smash themselves into brain damage, I might perhaps see the point of this. As it is, I consider anything short of terrorism against high school football to be an act of mercy.
 
2012-09-28 11:28:27 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: After watching the Frontline episode this week titled "Dropout High" or something similar, my feeling is that more money to education will do nothing. We continue to throw money at failing kids, from failure parents, and they still don't go to class or graduate. All the effort and money spent would have been better spent on kids who actually go to class or care about school.


The school should claim guardianship of every child who doesn't want to go to school. They are then placed in a secure boarding school environment where access to outside is determined by academic attendance and accomplishments. Truancy and delinquency is punished by chaining them to their desk.
 
2012-09-28 11:39:30 PM  

MugzyBrown: Ok so your team isn't doing so well. In my neck of the woods it's funds all the other sports programs. It may just be a bible belt thing, but we would have womans field hockey if we didnt have football.

Not sure why tax dollars have to fund either. Why can't the town have a sports team funded only by fees paid by the players and attendence?

Removing the school and sports link in highschool and college would do wonders for the sports, athletes and students.


Even then - school sports are not professional leagues. The required funding for these sports should be the cost of a PE teacher or two, who may be able to double as teachers in other subjects, and:

Football: A dozen balls, a field with markings on it and a bus to go to local games.
Basketball: A dozen balls, a basketball court, borrow the football bus for local games.
Field Hockey: A couple dozen hockey sticks and a couple dozen balls, a field, borrow the football bus for local matches.
Netball: A dozen balls, use the basketball court and a roll-out net, borrow the bus for local matches.
Volleyball: A dozen balls, use the basketball court with a couple of floor fixings, borrow the bus for local matches.
Soccer: This is the cheapest sport in the world. If you can't do this on a budget you fail at life.

A stadium, let alone a $60,000,000 stadium has no place at a school sports match.

At least that was the setup at my school and every other school in my area.
 
2012-09-28 11:41:37 PM  
5 billion dollars would be about .8% of the total US education budget.
 
2012-09-28 11:51:30 PM  
Let's see: the medical community has found a way to suck talent out of the Third World. But Microsoft hasn't -- despite have 35,000 "temporary" workers that are frequently auditions for full-time hires? And overseas campuses replete with talent?

I'm calling bullshiat on this one. It's a scheme to get government subsidies for what a private company won't do -- train its own employees.

/Steve Ballmer ain't a Liberatarian.
 
2012-09-28 11:54:09 PM  

DrunkenBob: AmbassadorBooze: After watching the....

The school should claim guardianship of every child who doesn't want to go to school. They are then placed in a secure boarding school environment where access to outside is determined by academic attendance and accomplishments. Truancy and delinquencis punished by chaining them

I would agree in a perfect world. That is in effect how my mother handled homework for me. But she is the typical tiger mom. But, we live in a world of "compassion". However, I am already deep in negotion with two types of booze.

 
2012-09-29 12:09:20 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


If it almost always pays for itself, why does it need to be associated with a high school? Why can't the parents put together a football team on their own ?
 
2012-09-29 12:10:00 AM  

SN1987a goes boom: archichris: Funding is not the problem. All of my following comments pertain to failing school districts. Not all districts are failing. Most urban districts are failing.

You want to see a kid learn something in a hurry? Spend $60 on a copy of Skyrim and sit him in front of a computer with it. My 6 year old has practically mastered the game including cheats without any instruction other than being shown how to launch the game.

Our local Public Schools spend $14,600 per student per year and achieve some of the worst grades in the country. They cant motivate kids to learn. Bethesda Software can do it, but schools cant.

That is the basic problem with public schools. Kids go there because its free and the law says you have to. No one goes there to learn anymore.

If you get into a deep discussion with School admins about the things that are really important it boils down to getting seats in chairs so the funding levels remain consistent. School has become a social service for the poor. They brag more about the services they provide beyond education than they do about the test scores.

Did you just equate Skyrim to education...not sure if serious...


While it would be awesome if skyrim could teach children something other than how to convert brooms into gold into daedric armor....... No I merely use it as an example of the ability of young children to learn. Young minds are enormous consumers of information whether they come from poor homes or rich homes. The kids are learning something. The failure of public education is the failure to keep them learning when they get a little older. Now admittedly my expertise is on our local school system, but our numbers start off acceptable in grade school. But they hit a peak around 4th grade and then start to drop alarmingly until our high school graduated only 3% of the incoming freshmen at or above proficiency. In real numbers that means that 9 of the kids who graduated were ready for college or work.....out of 300 freshmen and 161 graduates. The majority of the remainder were graduated without academic cause....meaning they were socially promoted to graduation by repeated reductions in the requirements over the years. 86% of them were not proficient in English and reading, 95% not proficient in math or science. Spending per student is at an all time high, and the Board of education normally takes the maximum increase in taxes every year. They skipped this year because there is a lot of attention on the issue and they collected 6 million dollars more than they spent last year, which made some official eyebrows go up. If I were charting the success rate of our school system in terms of number of students ready to work against money spent it would work out to over 6 million dollars spent each year for each student who was ready for college. In reality most of the money goes to social welfare issues because of the extreme poverty in my city. They have happily become the babysitter of last resort because it gives them a reason and an excuse for high funding and low performance.
 
2012-09-29 02:14:24 AM  
I graduated from Allen High School, so I'm really getting a kick, etc.

It's an affluent suburb with a HUGE high school football culture. The marching band (and color guard, dancers, etc.) itself has 600+ members. The existing stadium was pitifully small to the point that renting extra bleachers every year was hemorrhaging the district money. Furthermore, the ~3000-student high school had no auditorium. The residents of the city specifically voted on a bond measure to specifically fund these building projects. It's not they voted to increase the general education fund, only for the evil Athletics department to come and plunder it all away. And it's not like the district is underperforming or anything. It's kinda silly how much you guys vilify the stadium. (It's more valid to use this as an example for why Robin Hood is needed, but that's neither here nor there.)

/now a doctor
//high school was a lot of fun
///my teachers were great (for the most part), too
////need to go back to watch a game one day
 
2012-09-29 07:29:12 AM  

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


It actually doesn't even come close to paying for itself if you stop/don't-include subsidising with educational funding. Of course that's inconvenient for states like Texas.
 
2012-09-29 09:27:24 AM  

MacWizard: Without RTFA, it's a good idea, but just a teeny bit late. Apple started investing in education in the 80s -- by putting their computers into classrooms. Kids might not have gotten smarter, but Apple sold a shiatload of computers and created a generation of iKids.

That's not necessarily a good thing, but it's true.

/Not the Apple fan I was when I created my user name.


Nope try again, the 80's Apple II sucked big donkey **** 90 percent of those kids bought Windows machine and majority of them today will still say Macs suck

Also "donating" a sample of one computer per school district was just advertisement, many companies do this kind of stuff, even today
 
2012-09-29 11:20:13 AM  

Summoner101: SN1987a goes boom: Elephantman: [folkonfolks.com image 335x226]

That relation makes no sense. Why would you put an equals sign after an inequality. Bad math notation is bad.

But you only know that makes no sense because you understand the maths behind it.


i4.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-29 12:12:31 PM  

dantheman195: Nope try again, the 80's Apple II sucked big donkey ****


Absolutely agree with ya there. But they didn't stop with the Apple IIe.

My wife was a teacher. Every school she taught in for 20 years had a computer lab full of Macs. And all the schools my daughter went to (elementary, Jr. high and high school) had Macs.
 
2012-09-29 07:50:41 PM  

Elephantman: Summoner101: SN1987a goes boom: Elephantman: [folkonfolks.com image 335x226]

That relation makes no sense. Why would you put an equals sign after an inequality. Bad math notation is bad.

But you only know that makes no sense because you understand the maths behind it.

[i4.photobucket.com image 582x386]


It helps, when you try to make a point through humor, to not actually fark up the delivery.
 
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