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(Slashdot)   Microsoft calls for $5BN investment into US education. Texas agrees, stating that'd build at least half a dozen high school football stadiums   (news.slashdot.org) divider line 89
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1628 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Sep 2012 at 2:48 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-28 11:22:16 AM
Or a carpeted admin building with solid oak desks, large expensive video and audio systems, and posh lounge. Oh, and a state of the art training/field house.
 
2012-09-28 11:39:44 AM
Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.
 
2012-09-28 12:42:11 PM
Raise $5bn based on higher fees on highly skilled labor coming into the U.S. . . . uh, I don't think that'll work the way they expect it to. Instead, you'll probably find that high tech, bio tech, and similar companies are suddenly going to have massive issues finding and hiring leading non-American researchers (and educators).

Don't get me wrong, I support a $5bn investment in US education, but I think we should consider paying for it out of taxes, not new fees.
 
2012-09-28 12:46:56 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


Yeah, after all, if high schools don't value athleticism over academic achievement, how are we going to show the geeks and nerds what their place in life is?

More seriously though, if high school football is almost paying for itself, can we separate it from the educational system entirely please? Perhaps remind these schools that they're supposed to be teaching kids to read rather than providing a farm system for College Football?
 
2012-09-28 01:47:51 PM

SphericalTime: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.

Yeah, after all, if high schools don't value athleticism over academic achievement, how are we going to show the geeks and nerds what their place in life is?

More seriously though, if high school football is almost paying for itself, can we separate it from the educational system entirely please? Perhaps remind these schools that they're supposed to be teaching kids to read rather than providing a farm system for College Football?


I tend to flip-flop on that issue. Why is it good for a school to prepare students for a career as an engineer, architect, teacher, artist, etc; but then suddenly not ok to prepare them for a professional sports career?

High school is too young to dedicate yourself to a particular career path though, so yes the schools do need a reminder that the students aren't just there for football.

/ As for it paying for itself though... there's demand to go to those games. If the stadium sucks, that demand goes down, as does revenue.
// You said high school football "almost" pays for itself. I was under the impression that most of the multi-million dollar high school stadiums in Texas were actually generating more revenue than they cost, but I might be remembering incorrectly.
 
2012-09-28 02:07:13 PM
i249.photobucket.com

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.
 
2012-09-28 02:52:39 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


Because that's what an EDUCATIONAL institution should be worried about....
 
2012-09-28 03:07:55 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


That means all high school sports are money drains, so we might as well get rid of them all.
 
2012-09-28 03:08:57 PM

serial_crusher: I tend to flip-flop on that issue. Why is it good for a school to prepare students for a career as an engineer, architect, teacher, artist, etc; but then suddenly not ok to prepare them for a professional sports career?


Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.
 
2012-09-28 03:11:08 PM
You don't need any new funding sources. Shift funding from programs with lesser returns (college financial assistance, job retraining, etc.) to those with the most (preschool and elementary education). Give kids a solid foundation and much of the rest will follow, or at least have more options for support.
 
2012-09-28 03:11:58 PM

Mr. Eugenides: Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.


Actually, I think we should set aside a separate career path for professional athletes. They can be recruited at a young age, be trained to the pinnacle of physical fitness and provide entertainment and enjoyment for millions of people. At thirty, when the ravages of time start to take their toll and it's obvious they are no longer useful to society as individuals, we can render their lean muscle mass into high-end steaks, chops and hamburgers.
 
2012-09-28 03:12:21 PM

UberDave: Or a carpeted admin building with solid oak desks, large expensive video and audio systems, and posh lounge. Oh, and a state of the art training/field house.


Oh you're in Prince William, Co. Virginia?
 
2012-09-28 03:14:43 PM
After watching the Frontline episode this week titled "Dropout High" or something similar, my feeling is that more money to education will do nothing. We continue to throw money at failing kids, from failure parents, and they still don't go to class or graduate. All the effort and money spent would have been better spent on kids who actually go to class or care about school.

Yes, I know that they come from tough backgrounds, no family unit etc. After the 22nd chance I stop caring.
 
2012-09-28 03:18:28 PM

The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.


That is 100% not true. And since I am on a school board and chair the finance board I might actually know something about this.

Activity fees from students, sponsorship/advertising, and concession / tickets sales do bring in some revenue, but it isn't anywhere close to paying for:
Facility capitalization or rental
Facility maintenance and security
Equipment purchasing and maintenance
Groundskeeping
Insurance
Transportation
Coaching / trainer salaries

Football is a huge money sponge, absorbing more net budget dollars than many other entire departments. My district spends more tax dollars on football than art or music.
 
2012-09-28 03:20:01 PM

give me doughnuts: A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.


When I was a sophomore in college, a roomie of mine was from Midland. He said they spent more on rushing play-by-play photographs (non-digital, this was in 1990) to the coach for halftime strategy sessions than they did on the entire English Department at the high school.
 
2012-09-28 03:22:01 PM

give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.


Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...
 
2012-09-28 03:23:17 PM
My goal is to get my kid the best education (currently in Montessori) through his early 20's without any concussions or permanent brain damage. If he wants to take up football, boxing or crack cocaine after college then that's his decision.

Of course, I'll still kick his ass. But it's his decision.
 
2012-09-28 03:27:25 PM

Fabric_Man: give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.

Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...


It isn't like that everywhere.

A school levy narrowly failed last fall in my district. It was a $60M levy over 10 years, but it failed primarily because it included a $1M refit of the football field which would include usable bleacher, concession area, and restrooms. Other local districts have the equivalent, but the local taxpayers didn't want to foot the bill for unnecessary spending. I can see both sides of the issue. Our district adds about 300 students each year and we need the money to build (already hit bonding limits). We really need the money and the cuts and caps have been rough. We continue to rent a nearby football field that belongs to a university for $50k/year - but they get to keep the concession money.
 
2012-09-28 03:29:53 PM

theorellior: Mr. Eugenides: Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.

Actually, I think we should set aside a separate career path for professional athletes. They can be recruited at a young age, be trained to the pinnacle of physical fitness and provide entertainment and enjoyment for millions of people. At thirty, when the ravages of time start to take their toll and it's obvious they are no longer useful to society as individuals, we can render their lean muscle mass into high-end steaks, chops and hamburgers.


Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first. The O-line would make a nice filet. Not that I know anything about about humans taste.
 
2012-09-28 03:30:44 PM
So, like a 0.1% annual increase in overall educational spending?
 
2012-09-28 03:33:51 PM

bdub77: Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first.


How about sausage?
 
2012-09-28 03:34:03 PM

bdub77: Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first. The O-line would make a nice filet. Not that I know anything about about humans taste.


Athletes will fatten up all on their own once they retire. Their metabolism crashes when they start being sedentary, and they don't start eating less.
 
2012-09-28 03:35:19 PM
It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.
 
2012-09-28 03:38:07 PM
Our HS used the local college field for their football games (as well as track events). I don't know if they paid them or what, but they have been doing it for at least 20 years, if not longer.

But, the town itself is full of doctors and college professors. So, it was a well funded HS in the middle of a cornfield.
 
2012-09-28 03:38:12 PM

theorellior: Mr. Eugenides: Because it isn't going to happen. The number of teachers, artists, architects etc far higher than the number of people who will win the genetic lottery and become professional athletes.

Actually, I think we should set aside a separate career path for professional athletes. They can be recruited at a young age, be trained to the pinnacle of physical fitness and provide entertainment and enjoyment for millions of people. At thirty, when the ravages of time start to take their toll and it's obvious they are no longer useful to society as individuals, we can render their lean muscle mass into high-end steaks, chops and hamburgers.


I'd prefer to have fewer steroids in my meats, thank you.
 
2012-09-28 03:40:35 PM
Newark NJ spends roughly 20K per student *
Asbury Park NJ spends about 25K per student
Camden NJ spends about 18K per student

* Newarks is the most expensive school district in the world, no other school district in the WORLD spends more money per year than the Newark school district

All of the above school districts are failures beyond repair

Spending more money actually made the districts worse
 
2012-09-28 03:41:00 PM

Fabric_Man: I'd prefer to have fewer steroids in my meats, thank you.


That's why there would be grades of product, just like in beef. Prime and choice would by definition have fewer adulterants.
 
2012-09-28 03:47:26 PM

Fabric_Man: give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.

Ooooooh... I am SO stabby right now...


I'm with you also...

Imagine all of the science and educational equipment that could have bought. They could have been pumping out intelligent kids instead they are pumping out worthless entertainers.
 
2012-09-28 03:48:01 PM

MugzyBrown: But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.


No, regulations change a lot. They do exactly what Congress & the regulatory agencies intend.

/Regulations are intended to punish new entrants into a marketplace, favor the larger competitors who can afford the new regulatory burden, and push smaller firms out of business/being acquired by the larger sharks/firms.
/Too big to fail? Try: too small to survive
 
2012-09-28 03:52:59 PM

MugzyBrown: It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.


School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives. They spew out a bunch of dire scenarios based on fear of what "might" happen rather than looking at the possibilities that would come from innovation. They attack anyone who utters the word "accountability" as hating education and/or teachers. They reject questions, advice or offers of consultation with an "educators know best, just pay us what we want, give us more funding and let us do things our way" attitude.

In short, it shows what the education establishment is all about... protecting their own interests rather than promoting the interests of their students.
 
2012-09-28 03:53:29 PM
I'm sitting about 2 blocks from Southlake Carroll's stadium so i'm getting a kick..
 
2012-09-28 03:57:36 PM
Sigh, another "shortage of skilled workers" article. We've got a country full of people with science and engineering degrees delivering pizzas and manning call centers. There's a shortage all right - of patience and flexibility on the hiring side.
 
2012-09-28 03:57:39 PM

give me doughnuts: [i249.photobucket.com image 800x499]

A $60 million high school football stadium. In Texas, of course.


on the plus side Allan has an _amazing_ concrete skatepark that is free no-less. When I was a kid Allan was just a bump on 75 North but they struck it rich when growth exploded Northward from Dallas.
 
2012-09-28 03:59:24 PM

fluffy2097: bdub77: Lean muscle is overrated for steak. You would have to fatten them up first. The O-line would make a nice filet. Not that I know anything about about humans taste.

Athletes will fatten up all on their own once they retire. Their metabolism crashes when they start being sedentary, and they don't start eating less.


It's being sedentary combined with all the carbs they used to eat to sustain their athletic needs. Carbs are horrible for metabolism without exercise. If they switched to a fat and protein heavy diet (a healthy one) they'd be better off.
 
2012-09-28 04:05:01 PM

Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: MugzyBrown: It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.

School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives. They spew out a bunch of dire scenarios based on fear of what "might" happen rather than looking at the possibilities that would come from innovation. They attack anyone who utters the word "accountability" as hating education and/or teachers. They reject questions, advice or offers of consultation with an "educators know best, just pay us what we want, give us more funding and let us do things our way" attitude.

In short, it shows what the education establishment is all about... protecting their own interests rather than promoting the interests of their students.


You described the NJEA
 
2012-09-28 04:05:34 PM

madgonad: The Stealth Hippopotamus: Why you gotta pick on football? It's the only highschool sport that almost always pays for itself.

That is 100% not true. And since I am on a school board and chair the finance board I might actually know something about this.

Activity fees from students, sponsorship/advertising, and concession / tickets sales do bring in some revenue, but it isn't anywhere close to paying for:
Facility capitalization or rental
Facility maintenance and security
Equipment purchasing and maintenance
Groundskeeping
Insurance
Transportation
Coaching / trainer salaries

Football is a huge money sponge, absorbing more net budget dollars than many other entire departments. My district spends more tax dollars on football than art or music.


Ok so your team isn't doing so well. In my neck of the woods it's funds all the other sports programs. It may just be a bible belt thing, but we would have womans field hockey if we didnt have football.
 
2012-09-28 04:09:35 PM
Funding is not the problem. All of my following comments pertain to failing school districts. Not all districts are failing. Most urban districts are failing.

You want to see a kid learn something in a hurry? Spend $60 on a copy of Skyrim and sit him in front of a computer with it. My 6 year old has practically mastered the game including cheats without any instruction other than being shown how to launch the game.

Our local Public Schools spend $14,600 per student per year and achieve some of the worst grades in the country. They cant motivate kids to learn. Bethesda Software can do it, but schools cant.

That is the basic problem with public schools. Kids go there because its free and the law says you have to. No one goes there to learn anymore.

If you get into a deep discussion with School admins about the things that are really important it boils down to getting seats in chairs so the funding levels remain consistent. School has become a social service for the poor. They brag more about the services they provide beyond education than they do about the test scores.
 
2012-09-28 04:10:53 PM
Ok so your team isn't doing so well. In my neck of the woods it's funds all the other sports programs. It may just be a bible belt thing, but we would have womans field hockey if we didnt have football.

Not sure why tax dollars have to fund either. Why can't the town have a sports team funded only by fees paid by the players and attendence?

Removing the school and sports link in highschool and college would do wonders for the sports, athletes and students.
 
2012-09-28 04:19:50 PM
Bill Gates has done a lot for third world countries with charity work but it's time he gave something back to the country that made him rich.

If Gates took ONE state, say Wa or Oregon and dumped a few billion into the education in that state in 3 or 4 years there would be a significant measureable improvement. Then the US as a country could not ignore improving the education system...
 
2012-09-28 04:20:09 PM

archichris: Funding is not the problem. All of my following comments pertain to failing school districts. Not all districts are failing. Most urban districts are failing.

You want to see a kid learn something in a hurry? Spend $60 on a copy of Skyrim and sit him in front of a computer with it. My 6 year old has practically mastered the game including cheats without any instruction other than being shown how to launch the game.

Our local Public Schools spend $14,600 per student per year and achieve some of the worst grades in the country. They cant motivate kids to learn. Bethesda Software can do it, but schools cant.

That is the basic problem with public schools. Kids go there because its free and the law says you have to. No one goes there to learn anymore.

If you get into a deep discussion with School admins about the things that are really important it boils down to getting seats in chairs so the funding levels remain consistent. School has become a social service for the poor. They brag more about the services they provide beyond education than they do about the test scores.


Did you just equate Skyrim to education...not sure if serious...
 
2012-09-28 04:23:46 PM

HeliumAddict: If Gates took ONE state, say Wa or Oregon and dumped a few billion into the education in that state in 3 or 4 years there would be a significant measureable improvement. Then the US as a country could not ignore improving the education system...


Not if he dumped it into the state education system.
 
2012-09-28 04:24:21 PM

DECMATH: There's a shortage all right - of patience and flexibility on the hiring side.


Ummmm, we're only hiring people with 6 years experience in iOS 5 and can do multitable lookup queries while hand-coding HTML. Starting salary is $25K and you'll have to work nights to keep up with our outsourced data center. Training? You should have looked up phoenix.edu before you came in here, slacker.
 
2012-09-28 04:26:29 PM

SN1987a goes boom: Did you just equate Skyrim to education...not sure if serious...


Everyone knows that before public schools ruined everything children just took to higher math, organic chemistry and dark matter physics like they were playing Half-Life 2: Lost Coast, yo.
 
2012-09-28 04:26:58 PM
Your kids are educated based on how much you want them to be. If you get involved then they will. If you don't, your town builds a $50 million dollar football stadium for the little league parents who are vocal about it.

Which is pretty much the entire state of Texas.
 
2012-09-28 04:30:07 PM

AmbassadorBooze: After watching the Frontline episode this week titled "Dropout High" or something similar, my feeling is that more money to education will do nothing. We continue to throw money at failing kids, from failure parents, and they still don't go to class or graduate. All the effort and money spent would have been better spent on kids who actually go to class or care about school.

Yes, I know that they come from tough backgrounds, no family unit etc. After the 22nd chance I stop caring.


Apparently just up and paying the kids to show up provides results. Which would make sense, most adults accept the same sort of scheme.
 
2012-09-28 04:31:22 PM
That might cover a handful of states Teacher's pension funds, but sadly, I don't think the money would go to students.

And I'm voting yes on a bond measure to rebuild a couple of schools that don't have working heat or AC, as well as replace ancient textbooks.

//Already checked, creationism is strictly not allowed in the science classroom, only in social studies or comparative religion classes.
 
2012-09-28 04:31:46 PM

HeliumAddict: Bill Gates has done a lot for third world countries with charity work but it's time he gave something back to the country that made him rich.


Apparently $6 billion, including tens of millions for early learning in the state of WA alone, isn't enough for you.
 
2012-09-28 04:37:52 PM
If ya'll want to learn more about science and other "cultures" and what have you, maybe you should move up north.
 
2012-09-28 04:42:29 PM

dantheman195: Harvey Manfrenjensenjen: MugzyBrown: It'd be cool if there was true school choice and instead of paying $5k per year in school taxes to send my kid to the bland education of public schools, I could use that money to send my kid who likes math and science to the newly opened Bill Gates Memorial Math & Science school.

This school would specialize in math and science and not be hampered by overbearing federal, state, and local laws and regulations regarding the school hours and the curriculum that needed to be taught.

But instead we must spend billions in taxes to increase federal spending so we can make more overbearing federal, state and local laws and regulations that don't change anything.

School choice scares the hell out of the education establishment because it would not only impose accountability to its customers, but it would expose their failure over the past few decades as parents scramble to find alternatives. They spew out a bunch of dire scenarios based on fear of what "might" happen rather than looking at the possibilities that would come from innovation. They attack anyone who utters the word "accountability" as hating education and/or teachers. They reject questions, advice or offers of consultation with an "educators know best, just pay us what we want, give us more funding and let us do things our way" attitude.

In short, it shows what the education establishment is all about... protecting their own interests rather than promoting the interests of their students.

You described the NJEA


New Jersey has the LOWEST drop out rate in the country. Dead last! By a huge margin over many of the worst states (North Carolina, Texas, etc?)

Maybe, just maybe, the vast majority of our public schools are doing something right?

And maybe, just maybe, since we lead the nation, we should be a model for other states to follow?
 
2012-09-28 04:48:05 PM

DECMATH: Sigh, another "shortage of skilled workers" article. We've got a country full of people with science and engineering degrees delivering pizzas and manning call centers. There's a shortage all right - of patience and flexibility on the hiring side.


When it comes to getting hired, giving a good interview or writing a good resume is more important than actually being able to do the job. Having "HR people" in charge of hiring is the worst thing that can happen.

(actually I have no idea if that's true but it sounds plausible enought to be annoying)
 
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