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(MoveOn)   Is this the Democrats "Birther movement" or is this Romney's "did not have sexual relations" moment? Move on, not much to see here   (front.moveon.org) divider line 94
    More: Obvious, Mitt Romney, Legal liability, political action, birthers, U.S. Department of Justice, Ethics in Washington, MoveOn, Melanie Sloan  
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5742 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Sep 2012 at 1:10 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-28 10:23:26 AM  
Oh, for God's sake. You know why this is foolish? Because it can't be reduced to a sound bite that 5th graders can understand. It doesn't even MATTER if he was technically in violation of SEC rules. You. Can't. Explain. This. To. "Normal". Folks. You know, common clay of the New West type people. They'd get more mileage humping the Seamus on the rooftop story again. At least normal folks can look at that and understand animal cruelty.

It's neither the Dem's "birther movement", because this claim is likely true, nor Romney's "definition of 'is'" moment, because it's not something that folks will connect with. We're already winning -- don't give the GOP anything to distract people from the good stuff Romney is providing on a daily basis.
 
2012-09-28 10:26:06 AM  

dahmers love zombie: Oh, for God's sake. You know why this is foolish? Because it can't be reduced to a sound bite that 5th graders can understand. It doesn't even MATTER if he was technically in violation of SEC rules. You. Can't. Explain. This. To. "Normal". Folks. You know, common clay of the New West type people. They'd get more mileage humping the Seamus on the rooftop story again. At least normal folks can look at that and understand animal cruelty.

It's neither the Dem's "birther movement", because this claim is likely true, nor Romney's "definition of 'is'" moment, because it's not something that folks will connect with. We're already winning -- don't give the GOP anything to distract people from the good stuff Romney is providing on a daily basis.


Ok fine, don't press it now, but can we charge him with a felony after he loses? That would be fun.
 
2012-09-28 10:26:18 AM  
All I know is that I find it awesome that Dems have finally got something to combat the idiotic birther nonsense. Best part about it is that this actually has some basis in reality, unlike the Birther movement where not even in the WWE universe does it hold any basis at all.
 
2012-09-28 10:28:04 AM  
It's a bad idea to do this now. Come on, Move On, you're smarter than this.
 
2012-09-28 10:29:20 AM  

MorrisBird: It's a bad idea to do this now. Come on, Move On, you're smarter than this.


they were responsible for that awful general petraeus/betray us ad, so I'm not sure how "smart" they are.
 
2012-09-28 10:30:41 AM  

cman: All I know is that I find it awesome that Dems have finally got something to combat the idiotic birther nonsense. Best part about it is that this actually has some basis in reality, unlike the Birther movement where not even in the WWE universe does it hold any basis at all.


I coin the phrase "filer" as in SEC filings as the new birfer.

/"bainer" sounds to much link boner
 
2012-09-28 10:35:06 AM  

MorrisBird: It's a bad idea to do this now. Come on, Move On, you're smarter than this.


I think more shiat be happening like this every day. Fill the courts with rich people gaming the system I say. You do realize that Bain's sandbox was the fringe area of financial legalities. Disguising salary as investment income, paying themselves consulting fees from the companies they were destroying and raiding employee benefit packages at the same time.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-28 10:37:49 AM  
They need to find a way to expose his tax records. Even after the election it will show what's wrong with our tax system.
 
2012-09-28 10:45:19 AM  

MorrisBird: It's a bad idea to do this now. Come on, Move On, you're smarter than this.


The DOJ would never take criminal action against the challenger to the incumbent president during an election cycle. The appearance of impropriety would be damning.
 
2012-09-28 10:48:50 AM  
If you only consider the most superficial of attributes and live in two dimensions, then yes. It's exactly the same as both.

I will say that if Romney's covering up or tried to conceal this, he and his people did a lousy job. I suspect they tried to exploit a loophole or some vagueness in employment law and filing requirements and did a crappy job of it.
 
2012-09-28 11:21:52 AM  
These guys always push the envelope of what is legal on taxes because at the end of the day if you get away with it that's great and if you don't you just have to pay what you should have.
 
2012-09-28 11:28:02 AM  
See? This is why he doesn't want to release any tax records. Liberals will just go through it and try to get him arrested on felony charges.

If you guys would just ignore this stuff he'd release all ten years of tax records. But no, you just had to go and screw it all up. Good job, libs. Good job.
 
2012-09-28 11:28:25 AM  

cman: All I know is that I find it awesome that Dems have finally got something to combat the idiotic birther nonsense. Best part about it is that this actually has some basis in reality, unlike the Birther movement where not even in the WWE universe does it hold any basis at all.


SHHHHH! Don't give Vince any stupid ideas! Can you imagine. someone coming out with John Cena's "fake" birth certificate, claiming he only pretends to love this country, but he's really from [insert evil company here]. that would have actually worked in the 80s, when the bad guys were the Russians.
 
2012-09-28 11:35:51 AM  

RexTalionis: The DOJ would never take criminal action against the challenger to the incumbent president during an election cycle. The appearance of impropriety would be damning.


This is basically what I came here to say, but once again more elegantly than I'd have said it.
 
2012-09-28 11:42:14 AM  
Political theater, nothing more.
 
2012-09-28 11:52:19 AM  

mrshowrules: /"bainer" sounds to much link boner


Dent rally two muck own yore spiel choker.
 
2012-09-28 12:08:21 PM  
I vaguely recall this raised months ago but that the statute of limitations had long passed.
 
2012-09-28 12:12:09 PM  

BKITU: mrshowrules: /"bainer" sounds to much link boner

Dent rally two muck own yore spiel choker.


So basically, you got nuthin.
 
2012-09-28 12:44:19 PM  

Quasar: I vaguely recall this raised months ago but that the statute of limitations had long passed.


I'm not sure what is the SoL for this classification of felony, but the alleged incident took place in 2011, when he filed his financial disclosure forms. Usually (for felonies) the SoL is more than one year.
 
2012-09-28 01:13:45 PM  
Let the courts decide. It won't impact the election either way. "47%" has already lost the election for Romney
 
2012-09-28 01:14:24 PM  

mrshowrules: MorrisBird: It's a bad idea to do this now. Come on, Move On, you're smarter than this.

I think more shiat be happening like this every day. Fill the courts with rich people gaming the system I say. You do realize that Bain's sandbox was the fringe area of financial legalities. Disguising salary as investment income, paying themselves consulting fees from the companies they were destroying and raiding employee benefit packages at the same time.


It should be, but this isn't the time or place to do it. At least not against Mittens.

Anyway, neither the right nor the left likes to hear that what Bain did--or the banks and companies that roused the Occupy Movement's ire--is completely legal, at least in the narrow courtroom sense of the word. They did nothing "wrong", and the business judgement rule will protect them every time.

Which is probably why Mitt feels neither shame nor remorse over his actions--because he didn't do anything he can actually get in trouble for.
 
2012-09-28 01:14:54 PM  
I don't understand why people keep digging into this. Unless the guy releases enough info to really pin him with something it's all just speculation based on partial information and things he's said that have no legal bearing on anything.

If something meaty actually comes out and somebody can actually prove there's a high chance he committed a crime, fine, but you don't need to keep grasping at these straws. There's plenty of actual, material things you can smash Romney with that you don't need to keep qualifying with words like "may have" and "possible".
 
2012-09-28 01:17:09 PM  

Diogenes: I will say that if Romney's covering up or tried to conceal this, he and his people did a lousy job. I suspect they tried to exploit a loophole or some vagueness in employment law and filing requirements and did a crappy job of it.


I think it's more a result of retroactively updating everything in order to conform to the ever expanding web of lies. Simply, it's pretty damn hard to keep track of what your story is on any given day. Scrub an entry here, re-enter a number there... Unless there's a script girl with Romney at all times, making sure he keeps continuity, nobody is going to be able to remember everything.
 
2012-09-28 01:17:51 PM  

Gyrfalcon: They did nothing "wrong",


TRANSLATION: They did something wrong.
 
2012-09-28 01:18:07 PM  
This won't mean anything. After all, a fair number of people still think of Romney as a "job creator" instead of the carpetbagger that he is.
 
2012-09-28 01:18:44 PM  
If there's meat on those bones and the DOJ finds it, good. I'd love to see Mitt do a perp walk. Of course, the DOJ will just ignore this, and people will still claim that there's bias against the GOP even while the government headed by Obama refuses to investigate crimes by GOP leadership.

We really do live in Bizarro world.
 
2012-09-28 01:19:39 PM  
this is MoveOn's birther movement, not the Dems
 
2012-09-28 01:19:45 PM  

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: Diogenes: I will say that if Romney's covering up or tried to conceal this, he and his people did a lousy job. I suspect they tried to exploit a loophole or some vagueness in employment law and filing requirements and did a crappy job of it.

I think it's more a result of retroactively updating everything in order to conform to the ever expanding web of lies. Simply, it's pretty damn hard to keep track of what your story is on any given day. Scrub an entry here, re-enter a number there... Unless there's a script girl with Romney at all times, making sure he keeps continuity, nobody is going to be able to remember everything.


So all we need to do to bust Romney is post his statements on IMDB or a scifi web site?
 
2012-09-28 01:20:31 PM  
Seems legit.
 
2012-09-28 01:21:08 PM  

Lando Lincoln: See? This is why he doesn't want to release any tax birth records. Liberals Birfers will just go through it and try to get him arrested on felony charges.

If you guys would just ignore this stuff he'd release all ten years of tax records his longform, unabridged, original birth certificate. But no, you just had to go and screw it all up. Good job, libs birfers. Good job.

 

Sounds familiar, somehow...
 
2012-09-28 01:22:11 PM  
Uhm. I support Move On, but does anyone else not see the irony of this action based off how they got formed in the first place?
 
2012-09-28 01:23:17 PM  
Maybe this is why Romney didn't release his tax returns-because it'd show he was still running Bain after 1999.
 
2012-09-28 01:24:36 PM  

unlikely: RexTalionis: The DOJ would never take criminal action against the challenger to the incumbent president during an election cycle. The appearance of impropriety would be damning.

This is basically what I came here to say, but once again more elegantly than I'd have said it.


Can we get the UN to send some, I don't know, Botswanans or something, to investigate as unbiased third parties? Something so that instead of possibly letting a felonious liar sit in the Big Chair, we actually ascertain the legality of his statements/filings BEFORE his inauguration?

// and no, this isn't a birf sertifikit thing
// HI's SecState "ruled" on Obama's BC during the campaign, making that as legally sound as it needed to be
// Mitt has no such cover, unless someone investigated this already
 
2012-09-28 01:24:50 PM  
Diogenes: ... Unless there's a script girl with Romney at all times...

www.wearysloth.com 

I believe it's criminal that Mitt allowed this to happen... by which I mean illegal.
 
2012-09-28 01:25:07 PM  
This is why people hate MoveOn.
 
2012-09-28 01:26:35 PM  
NO, this is not like the Birther movement. Obama released his birth certificate yet the Birthers still refuse to believe. Romney won't release his tax returns because there is obviously something to hide. Do you see the difference?
 
2012-09-28 01:27:10 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: I don't understand why people keep digging into this. Unless the guy releases enough info to really pin him with something it's all just speculation based on partial information and things he's said that have no legal bearing on anything.

If something meaty actually comes out and somebody can actually prove there's a high chance he committed a crime, fine, but you don't need to keep grasping at these straws. There's plenty of actual, material things you can smash Romney with that you don't need to keep qualifying with words like "may have" and "possible".


Hillary Clinton coined the term "politics of personal destruction". They don't to have something that sticks, they just need to get him to testify under oath. He either pleads the 5th, perjures himself, incriminates himself or just looks guilty. You almost can't lose.
 
2012-09-28 01:27:15 PM  
Not a "birther" movement because democrats like myself will wait until there's evidence of wrong-doing or a reply from the DoJ.
 
2012-09-28 01:28:52 PM  

kindasketchy: Maybe this is why Romney didn't release his tax returns-because it'd show he was still running Bain after 1999.


10 years of returns would only go to 2001. MO.org is saying he was there to 2000

Mittens is not releasing his tax returns because he took the offshore account tax dodging amnesty

/imo
 
2012-09-28 01:30:03 PM  

Pincy: NO, this is not like the Birther movement. Obama released his birth certificate yet the Birthers still refuse to believe. Romney won't release his tax returns because there is obviously something to hide. Do you see the difference?


yeah but this ain't it.
 
2012-09-28 01:31:10 PM  

dahmers love zombie: Oh, for God's sake. You know why this is foolish? Because it can't be reduced to a sound bite that 5th graders can understand. It doesn't even MATTER if he was technically in violation of SEC rules. You. Can't. Explain. This. To. "Normal". Folks. You know, common clay of the New West type people. They'd get more mileage humping the Seamus on the rooftop story again. At least normal folks can look at that and understand animal cruelty.

It's neither the Dem's "birther movement", because this claim is likely true, nor Romney's "definition of 'is'" moment, because it's not something that folks will connect with. We're already winning -- don't give the GOP anything to distract people from the good stuff Romney is providing on a daily basis.


I have no idea of the legal merit of MoveOn's analysis, but I agree that it's idiotic as a strategic move. This will never get political traction because it doesn't fit with people's perceptions of Romney's strengths and weaknesses. I really really dislike Romney because I think he's an arrogant, tone-deaf servant of the wealthiest segment of the economy, and he won't give a fark about how his actions affect ordinary people. Even with that, my first reaction to the MoveOn piece was "Really? They want me to believe he's a crook?" Romney's strength among people who might consider voting for him is the perception that he's straight-arrow guy, a total square who is a good management executive. People who view him this way might turn against him if they become convinced he's an arrogant jerk, but they're never going to believe he's a crook. MoveOn is just as likely to help Romney as it is to hurt him: Step 1: paint MoveOn as an agent of Obama. Step 2: Loudly whine that Obama is falsely and outrageously accusing Romney of being a criminal.

I guess I could have just posted the "you're not helping" jpg.
 
2012-09-28 01:32:13 PM  

mrshowrules: Vegan Meat Popsicle: I don't understand why people keep digging into this. Unless the guy releases enough info to really pin him with something it's all just speculation based on partial information and things he's said that have no legal bearing on anything.

If something meaty actually comes out and somebody can actually prove there's a high chance he committed a crime, fine, but you don't need to keep grasping at these straws. There's plenty of actual, material things you can smash Romney with that you don't need to keep qualifying with words like "may have" and "possible".

Hillary Clinton coined the term "politics of personal destruction". They don't to have something that sticks, they just need to get him to testify under oath. He either pleads the 5th, perjures himself, incriminates himself or just looks guilty. You almost can't lose.


There's a rumor that Lyndon Johnson, very early in his political career, accused an opponent of screwing his own barnyard sow. A staffer complained "We can't call this guy a pig-f*cker and get away with it! Nobody would believe it!"

"I know," Johnson said, "But let's make the sonofabiatch DENY it."
 
2012-09-28 01:38:47 PM  

dahmers love zombie: [...] it can't be reduced to a sound bite that 5th graders can understand [...]


[ Romney = Tax Cheat ]
 
2012-09-28 01:38:49 PM  

Quasar: I vaguely recall this raised months ago but that the statute of limitations had long passed.


FTFA: Romney was legally required to maintain "reasonable oversight" of Bain, which contradicts Romney's claim in his 2011 disclosure filing that he did not have "any" involvement in Bain after 1999.
 
2012-09-28 01:41:12 PM  

skullkrusher: kindasketchy: Maybe this is why Romney didn't release his tax returns-because it'd show he was still running Bain after 1999.

10 years of returns would only go to 2001. MO.org is saying he was there to 2000

Mittens is not releasing his tax returns because he took the offshore account tax dodging amnesty

/imo


I was thinking of 12 years of returns since that's what Obama and Biden had released.

/not really disagreeing with you, I'm pretty sure that there are multiple reasons he's not producing them.
 
2012-09-28 01:41:37 PM  

Gyrfalcon: mrshowrules: Vegan Meat Popsicle: I don't understand why people keep digging into this. Unless the guy releases enough info to really pin him with something it's all just speculation based on partial information and things he's said that have no legal bearing on anything.

If something meaty actually comes out and somebody can actually prove there's a high chance he committed a crime, fine, but you don't need to keep grasping at these straws. There's plenty of actual, material things you can smash Romney with that you don't need to keep qualifying with words like "may have" and "possible".

Hillary Clinton coined the term "politics of personal destruction". They don't to have something that sticks, they just need to get him to testify under oath. He either pleads the 5th, perjures himself, incriminates himself or just looks guilty. You almost can't lose.

There's a rumor that Lyndon Johnson, very early in his political career, accused an opponent of screwing his own barnyard sow. A staffer complained "We can't call this guy a pig-f*cker and get away with it! Nobody would believe it!"

"I know," Johnson said, "But let's make the sonofabiatch DENY it."


I love it.
 
2012-09-28 01:42:58 PM  

mrshowrules: Gyrfalcon: mrshowrules: Vegan Meat Popsicle: I don't understand why people keep digging into this. Unless the guy releases enough info to really pin him with something it's all just speculation based on partial information and things he's said that have no legal bearing on anything.

If something meaty actually comes out and somebody can actually prove there's a high chance he committed a crime, fine, but you don't need to keep grasping at these straws. There's plenty of actual, material things you can smash Romney with that you don't need to keep qualifying with words like "may have" and "possible".

Hillary Clinton coined the term "politics of personal destruction". They don't to have something that sticks, they just need to get him to testify under oath. He either pleads the 5th, perjures himself, incriminates himself or just looks guilty. You almost can't lose.

There's a rumor that Lyndon Johnson, very early in his political career, accused an opponent of screwing his own barnyard sow. A staffer complained "We can't call this guy a pig-f*cker and get away with it! Nobody would believe it!"

"I know," Johnson said, "But let's make the sonofabiatch DENY it."

I love it.


Maybe we should start calling it Johnsonian politics instead of Rovian politics.
 
2012-09-28 01:47:00 PM  
So in 2011, Romney filed his federal financial disclosure and said he didn't have any active role with Bain after 1999. We also already know there are SEC filings with Mitt's signature listing him as "sole director, Chief Executive Officer and President of Bain Capital, Inc." well after 1999. There is no way both can be true. I used to think that he either lied to the SEC or to the public when he said he wasn't with Bain after 1999. Now it turns out he either lied to the SEC or on his federal financial disclosure filing, which according to TFA is kind of a no-no.

Too bad nothing will likely come of this. I guess it will just serve to reinforce how much of an incompetent putz Mitt really is.
 
2012-09-28 01:51:35 PM  
$10,000 says that no one will have the guts to convict him.
 
2012-09-28 01:54:45 PM  

mrshowrules: cman: All I know is that I find it awesome that Dems have finally got something to combat the idiotic birther nonsense. Best part about it is that this actually has some basis in reality, unlike the Birther movement where not even in the WWE universe does it hold any basis at all.

I coin the phrase "filer" as in SEC filings as the new birfer.

/"bainer" sounds to much link boner


Call it filer-gate and CNN will air it 6 times a minute.
 
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