If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NBC News)   Republicans finally find the smoking gun of voter fraud... in their own holster   (firstread.nbcnews.com) divider line 97
    More: Followup, RNC, voter fraud, Attorney General John Ashcroft, Michael Isikoff, Florida counties, University of New Zealand, elections officials, Okaloosa County  
•       •       •

4250 clicks; posted to Politics » on 28 Sep 2012 at 12:32 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



97 Comments   (+0 »)
   
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

Archived thread
 
2012-09-28 10:52:58 AM  
Not an isolated incident with this Sproul person.
 
2012-09-28 11:01:17 AM  
The allegations of suspected voter fraud committed by Strategic Allied Consulting of Tempe, Arizona

img.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-28 11:02:03 AM  
I should add that Arizona and Florida made babies for this article.
 
2012-09-28 11:14:54 AM  

Because People in power are Stupid: I should add that Arizona and Florida made babies for this article.


Now there's a mental image I really didn't need this early in the day
 
2012-09-28 11:16:02 AM  

MaudlinMutantMollusk: Because People in power are Stupid: I should add that Arizona and Florida made babies for this article.

Now there's a mental image I really didn't need this early in the day


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-28 11:17:09 AM  
I have a conservative friend who defends voter ID laws because people should have IDs and voter fraud is rampant... there's no talking facts with him, he doesn't care for reality.
 
2012-09-28 11:30:04 AM  
Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.
 
2012-09-28 11:34:23 AM  

tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.


And it's Republican registration fraud, which means it's really not an issue.
 
2012-09-28 11:34:43 AM  

tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.


The latter largely requires the former.
 
2012-09-28 11:37:03 AM  
Probably the work of an "overzealous staffer" while the organization itself is blameless.

... RTFA... yep...

"Strategic has a zero tolerance policy for breaking the law. Accordingly, once we learned of the irregularities in Palm Beach County, we were able to trace all questionable cards to one individual and immediately terminated our working relationship with the individual in question. Strategic is committed to following the letter of the law and will continue to cooperate with the Palm Beach County Supervisor of Elections to ensure that this issue is resolved."
 
2012-09-28 12:12:46 PM  

Diogenes: The latter largely requires the former.


Guess ACORN really was as dangerous as they said, then.
 
2012-09-28 12:30:54 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: The allegations of suspected voter fraud committed by Strategic Allied Consulting of Tempe, Arizona

img.photobucket.com


i.imgur.com

/made for a PS contest
 
2012-09-28 12:35:01 PM  

Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.


Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?
 
2012-09-28 12:36:11 PM  
funny headline.

that is all.
 
2012-09-28 12:36:16 PM  
They hoped it would go unnoticed but they got caught by the "liberal" media.
 
2012-09-28 12:38:28 PM  
"A thief always expects everyone else is stealing"
 
2012-09-28 12:39:33 PM  

Any Pie Left: "A thief always expects everyone else is stealing"


If it is this easy then everyone must be doing it.
 
2012-09-28 12:40:27 PM  
The only voter ID we should need is a GOP registration card. All you Dims and Liberaltarians shouldn't be allowed to destroy this country.
 
2012-09-28 12:41:05 PM  

Citrate1007: They hoped it would go unnoticed but they got caught by the "liberal" media.


And their pesky dog!
 
2012-09-28 12:42:28 PM  
How about when the reps in state congress run around pushing voting buttons on the desks of other reps who aren't there?

Good times.
 
2012-09-28 12:43:42 PM  

Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.


It doesn't if you're Rick Scott, republican Governor of Florida.
He just hired a bunch of people to forge absentee ballots meant for the elderly.
 
2012-09-28 12:44:09 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?


So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?
 
2012-09-28 12:44:18 PM  

Citrate1007: Any Pie Left: "A thief always expects everyone else is stealing"

If it is this easy then everyone must be doing it.



The only people who would bother are in the parties. Nobody else gives a damn that much. Do you think I would make up hundreds of fake names or whatever it takes to actually have an influence? Please.
 
2012-09-28 12:46:32 PM  
This should be treated the way ACRON was.
 
2012-09-28 12:47:58 PM  

brianbankerus: I have a conservative friend who defends voter ID laws because people should have IDs and voter fraud is rampant... there's no talking facts with him, he doesn't care for reality.


This.

When I debate this with the neanderthals at my work, I try to first distinguish Voter Registration Fraud from In Person Voter Fraud (y'know the kind that actually never occurs and what the voter ID laws are claiming to prevent) and they refuse to even grasp that concept.

And these are educated people, people who figure out how to get themselves dressed and drive to work everyday. The cognitive dissonance is staggering.
 
2012-09-28 12:50:09 PM  

Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?


www.gnorb.net

VOTER ID LAWS DO NOT PREVENT FRAUDULENT REGISTRATION!
 
2012-09-28 12:53:41 PM  
Look, what's most important is that the repubs win this election. If you won't vote for their candidates, then they have no choice but to commit ballot fraud or suppress votes. Is that so hard to understand?
 
2012-09-28 12:54:29 PM  

Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?


Actually, that's not true at all. Nearly all cases of voter fraud haven't happened as a result of voter registration fraud. The most common methods of voter fraud happen after votes are cast by legitimately registered voters, usually by either having those votes changed or tossed out by the people responsible for counting the votes.

While your "logical progression" seems to make sense, where the process of committing voter fraud would be to register fake voters and then use those registrations to cast votes, there are, literally, no known cases of that actually happening. And it makes sense that there aren't, it is an incredibly inefficient way to swing an election, as it would have to happen on a very large scale to make a difference. It's much easier and more effective to take care of it on the back end.
 
2012-09-28 12:54:42 PM  

clambam: Look, what's most important is that the repubs win this election. If you won't vote for their candidates, then they have no choice but to commit ballot fraud or suppress votes. Is that so hard to understand?


Exactly! Try to have some compassion here.
 
2012-09-28 12:56:25 PM  
Hiring people to vote republican, registering the deceased, tossing registration forms of Democrats. What's the big deal? It's just light-hearted, low level, fraudulent fun at the expense of holding a legitimate election.
Plus, the company has a video! A company cannot be held responsible for the actions of employees they hire after showing them a video. Video!
 
2012-09-28 12:56:48 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.


The problem isn't so much the fraudulent registrations (those don't really do much but enrich the canvasser), but the alteration and destruction of legitimate registrations (those lead to voter suppression).

Of course, there's also the abject hypocrisy on display, considering how they hounded ACORN out of business.
 
2012-09-28 12:57:53 PM  

imontheinternet: Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?

[www.gnorb.net image 320x240]

VOTER ID LAWS DO NOT PREVENT FRAUDULENT REGISTRATION!


I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote. I made no mention of Voter ID Laws.
 
2012-09-28 12:58:22 PM  
Republican is synonymous with hypocrite.

Seriously, did you read the part about how you "can't prevent a few bad apples?" Cognitive dissnonance, where are you?
 
2012-09-28 12:58:28 PM  

Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?


You should go away and learn something about "personation" before casting aspersions on others. There are lots of ways to cast a fraudulent vote in the name of a valid registration, and doing so is a much more cost-effective form of voter fraud than is registration fraud.
 
2012-09-28 12:59:12 PM  

timujin: Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?

Actually, that's not true at all. Nearly all cases of voter fraud haven't happened as a result of voter registration fraud. The most common methods of voter fraud happen after votes are cast by legitimately registered voters, usually by either having those votes changed or tossed out by the people responsible for counting the votes.

While your "logical progression" seems to make sense, where the process of committing voter fraud would be to register fake voters and then use those registrations to cast votes, there are, literally, no known cases of that actually happening. And it makes sense that there aren't, it is an incredibly inefficient way to swing an election, as it would have to happen on a very large scale to make a difference. It's much easier and more effective to take care of it on the back end.


Standard Republican lack of imagination / tunnel vision. They can only think of one way that something could happen, so therefore it is the ONLY way that it could happen.

See also: abstinence only sex ed, creationism, the US as a Christian nation, all Muslims are terrorists, all blacks are welfare queens, etc, etc, etc.
 
2012-09-28 01:00:15 PM  
Sproul has been previously accused of suppressing Democratic voter turnout, throwing away registration forms, and manipulating ballot initiatives. His firms -- formerly Sproul & Associates, Lincoln Strategy, and Strategic Allied Consultants -- had previously worked for RNC voter registration efforts during the campaigns of George W. Bush and John McCain. In 2004, Democratic Senators Leahy and Kennedy sent a letter to then Attorney General John Ashcroft requesting that he "launch an immediate investigation into the activities of Mr. Sproul and his firm." But the request did not lead to any criminal charges against Sproul.

Nice job there, wandering on and on about the little shiat and burying the most damning evidence at the tail end of the story, where most people won't read it. The other shiat is small potatoes in comparison, and they don't even mention the ex-employees testifying that they were fired for registering Dems, were ordered to throw away Dem registrations, and were specifically told to go out and only register Republicans.

That's some top-notch investigative reporting there, guys. Make sure you throw the name ACORN out there alot, so that... Oh, I see you already did that.

Oh, well, carry on.
 
2012-09-28 01:01:01 PM  

Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote.


Then perhaps you should stop making up claims that are unsubstantiated by the facts?
 
2012-09-28 01:01:49 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.


This is a repeat from 2010.
 
2012-09-28 01:02:22 PM  
Funny how everyone who uses the phrase "bad apples" doesn't finish the aphorism...

Also, Sproule is a dickbag of the highest order. Not surprised he's a GOP favorite.
 
2012-09-28 01:04:05 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Diogenes: The latter largely requires the former.

Guess ACORN really was as dangerous as they said, then.


Fine. Shut down these guys, too. No more voter registration drives by private enterprises.
 
2012-09-28 01:04:13 PM  

Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote. I made no mention of Voter ID Laws.


Fraudulent registration is required in most cases of voter fraud. Well, it is once you throw out every single case of voter fraud that's ever been found out.
 
2012-09-28 01:04:22 PM  

czetie: Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?

You should go away and learn something about "personation" before casting aspersions on others. There are lots of ways to cast a fraudulent vote in the name of a valid registration, and doing so is a much more cost-effective form of voter fraud than is registration fraud.


Bizarre, isn't it? For the last year or so, Republicans have been indicating that "voter registration fraud" is practically identical to "voter fraud" just to get voter ID laws into place - despite the fact that we've had "voter registration fraud" for years and virtually no "voter fraud." Republican mouthpieces have actually come out and stated their real reason to push voter ID laws - to disenfranchise a section of the American population with a clear tendency to vote for Democrats.

Now, when an organization is caught perpetrating "voter registration fraud" in the name of the Republican Party, well, what do you do now?
 
2012-09-28 01:06:13 PM  
Wrong is wrong. Rather than lefties smirk and ignore the issue, why not agree our voter registration & ID methods are jokes and tighten them up?

The foundation of our nation's stability is the trust in the voting system. Republican or Democrat, there will be a-holes trying to exploit the lack of good oversight.
 
2012-09-28 01:06:49 PM  
To be fair this is still only registration fraud not true voter fraud however it is what Republicans called "voter fraud" in the past.
 
2012-09-28 01:06:57 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?


You're missing my larger point.
 
2012-09-28 01:08:08 PM  

fickenchucker: Wrong is wrong. Rather than lefties smirk and ignore the issue, why not agree our voter registration & ID methods are jokes and tighten them up?

The foundation of our nation's stability is the trust in the voting system. Republican or Democrat, there will be a-holes trying to exploit the lack of good oversight.


Because it's not a problem. Voter fraud is actually very rare. This wasn't voter fraud.

Why disenfranchise millions of legal voters when real voter fraud is very rare?


It's not "a problem" like you are pretending it is. You are wrong.
 
2012-09-28 01:08:22 PM  

timujin: Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?

Actually, that's not true at all. Nearly all cases of voter fraud haven't happened as a result of voter registration fraud. The most common methods of voter fraud happen after votes are cast by legitimately registered voters, usually by either having those votes changed or tossed out by the people responsible for counting the votes.

While your "logical progression" seems to make sense, where the process of committing voter fraud would be to register fake voters and then use those registrations to cast votes, there are, literally, no known cases of that actually happening. And it makes sense that there aren't, it is an incredibly inefficient way to swing an election, as it would have to happen on a very large scale to make a difference. It's much easier and more effective to take care of it on the back end.


Well, the 1960 Nixon/Kennedy election would respectfully like to have a word with you.
 
2012-09-28 01:08:26 PM  
First: That is exactly the same thing that ACORN was accused of (correctly) namely that it had employees doing voter registration efforts who were faking registrations in order to get paid. It is fraud on the employer and a minor violation of election laws BUT:

Second: That is NOT "voter fraud". The voter fraud that everyone is so scared of is that votes will be cast that are illegal. That is not what was going on with ACORN or with the RPOF. Just because you submit a fake voter registration to make money does not mean (and in fact almost guarantees it won't happen) that someone will actually show up on election day and cast an illegal fraudulent vote using that fake registration.

So yes, while it is amusing and unsurprising that the Republicans fell prey to the exact kind of loose oversight of voter registration efforts that burned ACORN, I still find it incredible that the news keeps on misreporting this as "voter fraud" when it in fact is nothing of the sort.
 
2012-09-28 01:08:26 PM  
Is there anything the GOP doesn't farking project on? They were adamant about voter fraud to use to disenfranchise large swaths of people but couldn't show it happening at any rate that wasn't ludicrously low to base a law on, until they get caught.

I used to believe that they cared about the US. In their weird, twisted way they cared about the US, or at least the US as they saw it in their vision from the cave. Now I can't even believe that. These people are becoming enemies of the nation. They should be treated as such.
 
2012-09-28 01:09:13 PM  

Diogenes: Not an isolated incident with this Sproul person.


Much, MUCH better article. Read this one yesterday., This NBC bullshiat is a piece of crap, your link goes into much more detail in the same space.
 
2012-09-28 01:10:53 PM  
b-b-b-b-b-b-but ACORN!

Move on, seriously.
 
2012-09-28 01:11:08 PM  

Karac: Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote. I made no mention of Voter ID Laws.

Fraudulent registration is required in most cases of voter fraud. Well, it is once you throw out every single case of voter fraud that's ever been found out.


That's not true at all. Those names get checked after they are registered and thrown out. That's how they know this happened in the first place!!!

s
 
2012-09-28 01:11:28 PM  

fickenchucker: Wrong is wrong. Rather than lefties smirk and ignore the issue, why not agree our voter registration & ID methods are jokes and tighten them up?


Why should we agree? The right has not presented any real evidence of this. Stop claiming the system is broken just because you want it to be.
 
2012-09-28 01:11:52 PM  
i.imgur.com
"You're just now figuring this out, you schmucks?"
 
2012-09-28 01:12:10 PM  

cefm: First: That is exactly the same thing that ACORN was accused of (correctly) namely that it had employees doing voter registration efforts who were faking registrations in order to get paid. It is fraud on the employer and a minor violation of election laws BUT:

Second: That is NOT "voter fraud". The voter fraud that everyone is so scared of is that votes will be cast that are illegal. That is not what was going on with ACORN or with the RPOF. Just because you submit a fake voter registration to make money does not mean (and in fact almost guarantees it won't happen) that someone will actually show up on election day and cast an illegal fraudulent vote using that fake registration.

So yes, while it is amusing and unsurprising that the Republicans fell prey to the exact kind of loose oversight of voter registration efforts that burned ACORN, I still find it incredible that the news keeps on misreporting this as "voter fraud" when it in fact is nothing of the sort.


THIS!
 
2012-09-28 01:12:17 PM  
Do you think that the republicans would hire consulting firms and tell them to do illegal stuff like this or whatever is necessary to win, then throw them under the bus just so that they can prove that voter fraud is real and therefore the need for voter I.D's, just so they can push their voter suppression tactics?
 
2012-09-28 01:13:45 PM  

Karac: timujin: Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?

Actually, that's not true at all. Nearly all cases of voter fraud haven't happened as a result of voter registration fraud. The most common methods of voter fraud happen after votes are cast by legitimately registered voters, usually by either having those votes changed or tossed out by the people responsible for counting the votes.

While your "logical progression" seems to make sense, where the process of committing voter fraud would be to register fake voters and then use those registrations to cast votes, there are, literally, no known cases of that actually happening. And it makes sense that there aren't, it is an incredibly inefficient way to swing an election, as it would have to happen on a very large scale to make a difference. It's much easier and more effective to take care of it on the back end.

Standard Republican lack of imagination / tunnel vision. They can only think of one way that something could happen, so therefore it is the ONLY way that it could happen.

See also: abstinence only sex ed, creationism, the US as a Christian nation, all Muslims are terrorists, all blacks are welfare queens, etc, etc, etc.


You honestly just cast me as a Republican? Really? I happen to state that there are valid cases of voter fraud (examples: Bush/Gore and Nixon/Kennedy) where people have been convicted, and fraudulent registration (like in 1960's Chicago Presidential Election where a case was proven 56 dead people were fraudulently registered to the same address...that didn't actually exist...and had cast votes.) has occurred in the past and you label me a Republican?

I don't support Voter ID laws, I am not a Republican but I also am not sticking my head in the sand and saying "LA LA LA! No such thing as Voter Fraud!"
 
2012-09-28 01:14:19 PM  
Guys why not agree that fire is cold and water is dry?
 
2012-09-28 01:16:34 PM  

czetie: Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote.

Then perhaps you should stop making up claims that are unsubstantiated by the facts?


Really? A google search pulled up a few news articles talking about people being arrested and charged with fraudulent voter registration, casting fraudulent ballots, and ballot stuffing in past elections, most notably the Nixon/Kennedy election.
 
2012-09-28 01:18:42 PM  

brianbankerus: I have a conservative friend who defends voter ID laws because people should have IDs and voter fraud is rampant... there's no talking facts with him, he doesn't care for reality.


But you repeat yourself...

Seriously, though. At this point self-identifying as a conservative is basically the same as just saying "I don't care what's real anymore".
 
2012-09-28 01:18:54 PM  
I can picture a scenario where the RNC gets tough voter registration laws on the books. Then the DNC in response organizes volunteers to shuttle people to and from places to obtain ID, register and then on voting day. The the RNC will rise up in anger that these Democrats buy the votes of the lower classes and minorities and others they want to disenfranchise by enabling them their constitutional right to vote!
 
2012-09-28 01:24:11 PM  

Bschott007: czetie: Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote.

Then perhaps you should stop making up claims that are unsubstantiated by the facts?

Really? A google search pulled up a few news articles talking about people being arrested and charged with fraudulent voter registration, casting fraudulent ballots, and ballot stuffing in past elections, most notably the Nixon/Kennedy election.


A problem in 1960 requires immediate and decisive action with no time for considering the consequences in 2012?
 
2012-09-28 01:27:06 PM  

FormlessOne:
Bizarre, isn't it? For the last year or so, Republicans have been indicating that "voter registration fraud" is practically identical to "voter fraud" just to get voter ID laws into place - despite the fact that we've had "voter registration fraud" for years and virtually no "voter fraud." Republican mouthpieces have actually come out and stated their real reason to push voter ID laws - to disenfranchise a section of the American population with a clear tendency to vote for Democrats.

Now, when an organization is caught perpetrating "voter registration fraud" in the name of the Republican Party, well, what do you do now?


So you have to be a Republican to believe that someone would try to create fraudulent registrations as just another tool in their quiver to affect the election? I am a left-leaning Independent (Clinton,Bush, Kerry, Obama...and I plan to vote for President Obama again) but I do think that Republicans would be smart enough to think to use Fraudulent registrations, ballot box stuffing, tossing out valid ballots, and forging elderly absentee ballots to affect an election.

Christ, everyone agrees this is just one way to affect an election but I doubt many intelligent people believe this is the only way to affect an election.
 
2012-09-28 01:28:18 PM  
bad apples is the new overzealous staffer.
 
2012-09-28 01:31:25 PM  

qorkfiend: Bschott007: czetie: Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote.

Then perhaps you should stop making up claims that are unsubstantiated by the facts?

Really? A google search pulled up a few news articles talking about people being arrested and charged with fraudulent voter registration, casting fraudulent ballots, and ballot stuffing in past elections, most notably the Nixon/Kennedy election.

A problem in 1960 requires immediate and decisive action with no time for considering the consequences in 2012?


No. You are putting words in my mouth. I am not talking about nor do I support Voter ID laws. Why do you keep bringing them up? All I am saying is there are facts, real cases, of voter fraud in the past. That's it. I'm not saying the system needs to be fixed by Voter ID. You said there are no facts/history of this occurring. I'm saying that reality doesn't support your claim and there is a history of this happening. That's all I am saying. Now take your tin-foil hat and go hide in the corner somewhere else.
 
2012-09-28 01:32:03 PM  
For all the false equivalence, there are a couple of key differences between this group and Acorn: one, Acorn self-reported fraudulent voter registrations, which they were required by law to turn in anyway, whereas these guys evidently made no attempt to identify fairly obvious cases of registration fraud until they were identified by the election supervisor. Two, Acorn was never accused of failing to submit valid registrations, which is a MUCH more egregious offense.
 
2012-09-28 01:33:44 PM  

Superjew: Funny how everyone who uses the phrase "bad apples" doesn't finish the aphorism...

Also, Sproule is a dickbag of the highest order. Not surprised he's a GOP favorite.


That it only takes one bad apple to spoil the whole barrel?

What if the barrel is already full of rotten apples, what then? (You can get some good cider that way, though)
 
2012-09-28 01:39:33 PM  

Bschott007: qorkfiend: Bschott007: czetie: Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote.

Then perhaps you should stop making up claims that are unsubstantiated by the facts?

Really? A google search pulled up a few news articles talking about people being arrested and charged with fraudulent voter registration, casting fraudulent ballots, and ballot stuffing in past elections, most notably the Nixon/Kennedy election.

A problem in 1960 requires immediate and decisive action with no time for considering the consequences in 2012?

No. You are putting words in my mouth. I am not talking about nor do I support Voter ID laws. Why do you keep bringing them up? All I am saying is there are facts, real cases, of voter fraud in the past. That's it. I'm not saying the system needs to be fixed by Voter ID. You said there are no facts/history of this occurring. I'm saying that reality doesn't support your claim and there is a history of this happening. That's all I am saying. Now take your tin-foil hat and go hide in the corner somewhere else.


You're responding to the Boobies I made in this thread, so I actually didn't say anything about facts or history; surprising for someone so concerned about others putting words in their mouth.

Guess what people cite as the main reason for Voter ID laws? The same arguments you're citing. This is a voter fraud thread, the hot topic regarding voter fraud is Voter ID laws, and you're surprised that your defense of the arguments in favor of Voter ID laws prompts people to respond? People think you're in favor of Voter ID laws because you sound exactly like, and cite the same arguments, as someone who's in favor of Voter ID laws.
 
2012-09-28 01:41:05 PM  

Bschott007: timujin: Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?

Actually, that's not true at all. Nearly all cases of voter fraud haven't happened as a result of voter registration fraud. The most common methods of voter fraud happen after votes are cast by legitimately registered voters, usually by either having those votes changed or tossed out by the people responsible for counting the votes.

While your "logical progression" seems to make sense, where the process of committing voter fraud would be to register fake voters and then use those registrations to cast votes, there are, literally, no known cases of that actually happening. And it makes sense that there aren't, it is an incredibly inefficient way to swing an election, as it would have to happen on a very large scale to make a difference. It's much easier and more effective to take care of it on the back end.

Well, the 1960 Nixon/Kennedy election would respectfully like to have a word with you.


sorry, you are correct... I meant to include, as I have before, the caveat "in the last twelve years"... However, since it's 2012 and not 1960, do you have see why your original argument is incorrect?
 
2012-09-28 01:46:38 PM  

qorkfiend: Bschott007: qorkfiend: Bschott007: czetie: Bschott007: I never said Voter ID laws prevented fraudulent registration. I said a fraudulent registration is required in most cases (except for stealing votes from elderly mail-in voters such as the link farther up thread) to case a fraudulent vote.

Then perhaps you should stop making up claims that are unsubstantiated by the facts?

Really? A google search pulled up a few news articles talking about people being arrested and charged with fraudulent voter registration, casting fraudulent ballots, and ballot stuffing in past elections, most notably the Nixon/Kennedy election.

A problem in 1960 requires immediate and decisive action with no time for considering the consequences in 2012?

No. You are putting words in my mouth. I am not talking about nor do I support Voter ID laws. Why do you keep bringing them up? All I am saying is there are facts, real cases, of voter fraud in the past. That's it. I'm not saying the system needs to be fixed by Voter ID. You said there are no facts/history of this occurring. I'm saying that reality doesn't support your claim and there is a history of this happening. That's all I am saying. Now take your tin-foil hat and go hide in the corner somewhere else.

You're responding to the Boobies I made in this thread, so I actually didn't say anything about facts or history; surprising for someone so concerned about others putting words in their mouth.

Guess what people cite as the main reason for Voter ID laws? The same arguments you're citing. This is a voter fraud thread, the hot topic regarding voter fraud is Voter ID laws, and you're surprised that your defense of the arguments in favor of Voter ID laws prompts people to respond? People think you're in favor of Voter ID laws because you sound exactly like, and cite the same arguments, as someone who's in favor of Voter ID laws.


Funny, I don't follow the voter id threads much as I live in a state where I don't have to register to vote. However, I DON'T support Voter ID laws and I apologize if anyone believes that to be the case. All I was pointing out is that Fraudulent votes is not a myth... however voter ID is not the way to fix the issue. I don't have a solution either, but that doesn't mean I should ignore cases of fraud in the past.

In any case, you and I sound to be on the same page on this, or nearly so. Sorry things got heated.
 
2012-09-28 01:55:35 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: brianbankerus: I have a conservative friend who defends voter ID laws because people should have IDs and voter fraud is rampant... there's no talking facts with him, he doesn't care for reality.

But you repeat yourself...

Seriously, though. At this point self-identifying as a conservative is basically the same as just saying "I don't care what's real anymore".


I sent him the link for unskewed polls and he loved it. Finally something that confirms the truthiness in his gut.
 
2012-09-28 01:55:36 PM  
Yes I admit the repubs got a thinking problem.
 
2012-09-28 02:03:11 PM  

cefm: First: That is exactly the same thing that ACORN was accused of (correctly) namely that it had employees doing voter registration efforts who were faking registrations in order to get paid.


Not exactly. AFAIK, nobody ever accused ACORN of destroying valid voter registrations.
 
2012-09-28 02:03:14 PM  

timujin: Bschott007: timujin: Bschott007: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

So logical progression eludes you?

I'll take this slow for you: In many states, you need to register to vote. If you are not registered, you can not cast a ballot. So unless a fraudulent registration is made in a state requiring voter registration, the fraudulent vote can not be submitted.

Logic, how does it work?

Actually, that's not true at all. Nearly all cases of voter fraud haven't happened as a result of voter registration fraud. The most common methods of voter fraud happen after votes are cast by legitimately registered voters, usually by either having those votes changed or tossed out by the people responsible for counting the votes.

While your "logical progression" seems to make sense, where the process of committing voter fraud would be to register fake voters and then use those registrations to cast votes, there are, literally, no known cases of that actually happening. And it makes sense that there aren't, it is an incredibly inefficient way to swing an election, as it would have to happen on a very large scale to make a difference. It's much easier and more effective to take care of it on the back end.

Well, the 1960 Nixon/Kennedy election would respectfully like to have a word with you.

sorry, you are correct... I meant to include, as I have before, the caveat "in the last twelve years"... However, since it's 2012 and not 1960, do you have see why your original argument is incorrect?


I agree that it is easier today to stuff or switch out or lose a ballot box or do other things to affect an election. However if fraudulent registrations are happening, either the company/organization/person creating the fraudulent registrations is thinking about or planning to create fraudulent votes via absentee/mail-in ballots or will have a small group of people travel around to different voting sites and cast multiple votes. My money would be on the former. I wouldn't dismiss some hard-right wingers would take it upon themselves to do this without the approval of their party...if someone really want President Obama out, they live in a county where the race will be close and they are not able to affect already cast ballots (lose a box, ballot stuff) then fraudulent registering a few dozen names to a real or bogus address and casting all those absentee ballots for the Republican ticket would be something that a very small minority of people might do.

Does that mean we need Voter ID laws? No. Perhaps something like a database that cross checks every name and every address submitted, then cross checks every name with reported deaths. I think that would at least be a way to help stop the Fraudulent Voter Registration issue. The other issues such as ballot stuffing, ballot boxes being lost, or ballots being thrown away need their own solutions.

Personally, I like how in Fargo, ND when you cast your vote, you can go to a website, check your address and within a few hours you can see your counted ballot online (the last 4 of your SSN is used as your password to see your ballot).
 
2012-09-28 02:11:34 PM  

Bschott007: Does that mean we need Voter ID laws? No. Perhaps something like a database that cross checks every name and every address submitted, then cross checks every name with reported deaths. I think that would at least be a way to help stop the Fraudulent Voter Registration issue. The other issues such as ballot stuffing, ballot boxes being lost, or ballots being thrown away need their own solutions.

Personally, I like how in Fargo, ND when you cast your vote, you can go to a website, check your address and within a few hours you can see your counted ballot online (the last 4 of your SSN is used as your password to see your ballot).



It's not a bad start. And not impossible, except for screening out Anonymous fools who have no desire to screw with an election but who would do it anyway for teh lulz.

I think someone said up above, though, that the problem is not individual fraud, registration or election; nor even ballot-box stuffing (except at the local level). Any individual fraud is going to tend to cancel out at the national level. It's the fraud at the national counting level that needs to be addressed, and all this other crap is just smoke. But your idea would be outstanding for local elections.
 
2012-09-28 02:13:01 PM  

fickenchucker: Wrong is wrong. Rather than lefties smirk and ignore the issue, why not agree our voter registration & ID methods are jokes and tighten them up?

The foundation of our nation's stability is the trust in the voting system. Republican or Democrat, there will be a-holes trying to exploit the lack of good oversight.


Absolutely, but we can't piss on a convenient demographic that happens to vote for one party in the process and then shrug and say "your fault" to them. ID has to be free and easy to obtain. And by easy, I mean REALLY easy. The shiat my friends who moved to PA are going through just to get a drivers license is insane. I know if my ID was not correct, I would have a royal pain here in NY get a new one: we have all our bills electronic, so I would need a paper bill (they don't accept printouts), I would need to find my BC, which is an even more pain to get if I lost it (I don't remember the last time I needed to use it). I would need to take off a half day at least to go to the DMV, wait in line for hours, deal with the nasty employees, and then run the risk of being told my docs are not valid. Which means another half day off from work. I can do the half day, my boss won't care. Most people I know would either lose money or possibly get fired for it.

Why are we tying the right to vote to THE single most inefficient process in ANY state? I am personally opposed to National ID for Orwellian reasons, but that's the proper solution.

Until you can truly minimize any disenfranchisement, then keep the current laws and deal with the handful of in-person voter fraud cases that pop up every year.
 
2012-09-28 02:18:34 PM  
The circle of derp: scream about voter fraud, committ voter fraud, scream more.

Profit? You bet your ass.
 
2012-09-28 02:22:47 PM  

Bschott007: However if fraudulent registrations are happening, either the company/organization/person creating the fraudulent registrations is thinking about or planning to create fraudulent votes via absentee/mail-in ballots or will have a small group of people travel around to different voting sites and cast multiple votes.


This isn't necessarily true. If you have an organization like ACORN that pays on a per-registration basis, individuals have all the incentive to hand in a pile of false registrations no need for any sort of further plan.
 
2012-09-28 02:29:59 PM  

qorkfiend: Bschott007: However if fraudulent registrations are happening, either the company/organization/person creating the fraudulent registrations is thinking about or planning to create fraudulent votes via absentee/mail-in ballots or will have a small group of people travel around to different voting sites and cast multiple votes.

This isn't necessarily true. If you have an organization like ACORN that pays on a per-registration basis, individuals have all the incentive to hand in a pile of false registrations no need for any sort of further plan.


I haven't followed the ACORN issue/debate/scandal (whatever it is called) so I can't comment on them, but I can say while I didn't know there were organizations paying for a per-registration basis, it does make sense there would be Orgs doing that in this political climate, and yes, I can see that if someone is handing out money for no real work, there would be those trying to game the system to collect more of that money.
 
2012-09-28 02:35:42 PM  

Bschott007: qorkfiend: Bschott007: However if fraudulent registrations are happening, either the company/organization/person creating the fraudulent registrations is thinking about or planning to create fraudulent votes via absentee/mail-in ballots or will have a small group of people travel around to different voting sites and cast multiple votes.

This isn't necessarily true. If you have an organization like ACORN that pays on a per-registration basis, individuals have all the incentive to hand in a pile of false registrations no need for any sort of further plan.

I haven't followed the ACORN issue/debate/scandal (whatever it is called) so I can't comment on them, but I can say while I didn't know there were organizations paying for a per-registration basis, it does make sense there would be Orgs doing that in this political climate, and yes, I can see that if someone is handing out money for no real work, there would be those trying to game the system to collect more of that money.


And most of the fraudulent registrations are caught and processed by the people who pay on a per-registration basis. It's both the law and there's financial incentive to not let every homeless man turn in a brazilian signatures.

These fraudulent registrations, however, must be turned in. If a voter registration organization threw away a registration card for WEEDLORD BONERHITLER, they'd be breaking the law. That's why there's a much higher rate of incidence of registration fraud versus actual voting fraud. Also, keep in mind that the vast majority of actual vote fraud occurs at a level above individual votes - fake registrations aren't required for a poll worker to throw a bag of ballots into a river or report false data for their district.
 
2012-09-28 02:37:04 PM  

Bschott007: However if fraudulent registrations are happening, either the company/organization/person creating the fraudulent registrations is thinking about or planning to create fraudulent votes via absentee/mail-in ballots or will have a small group of people travel around to different voting sites and cast multiple votes. My money would be on the former.


Your money would be thrown away on either of these. It appears most cases of voter registration fraud have little to do with an intent on actual voter fraud and more on the desire of those who are being paid to register voters to "pad" their registrations. Usually you're dealing with people who are being paid on a per-registration basis. Getting people to stop and talk to you while you're standing outside a grocery store holding a clipboard is pretty difficult, so adding in a few Mickey Mouses and Donald Ducks seems like a harmless enough way to get a few extra bucks for your time. It's not like Mickey or Donald are going to show up and vote. And that's mostly what people have found, obviously fraudulent entries.

Again, actual voter fraud, not voter registration fraud, is much easier to handle on the back end. For example, by throwing out absentee ballots that don't vote the way you want or by "stuffing" the box with fake ones. The "registration fraud" part never needs to happen, as the absentee ballots aren't cross-referenced with actual voter rolls when it comes time to count them.
 
2012-09-28 02:39:18 PM  

timujin: Bschott007: However if fraudulent registrations are happening, either the company/organization/person creating the fraudulent registrations is thinking about or planning to create fraudulent votes via absentee/mail-in ballots or will have a small group of people travel around to different voting sites and cast multiple votes. My money would be on the former.

Your money would be thrown away on either of these. It appears most cases of voter registration fraud have little to do with an intent on actual voter fraud and more on the desire of those who are being paid to register voters to "pad" their registrations. Usually you're dealing with people who are being paid on a per-registration basis. Getting people to stop and talk to you while you're standing outside a grocery store holding a clipboard is pretty difficult, so adding in a few Mickey Mouses and Donald Ducks seems like a harmless enough way to get a few extra bucks for your time. It's not like Mickey or Donald are going to show up and vote. And that's mostly what people have found, obviously fraudulent entries.

Again, actual voter fraud, not voter registration fraud, is much easier to handle on the back end. For example, by throwing out absentee ballots that don't vote the way you want or by "stuffing" the box with fake ones. The "registration fraud" part never needs to happen, as the absentee ballots aren't cross-referenced with actual voter rolls when it comes time to count them.


Makes sense.
 
2012-09-28 02:43:16 PM  
I don't know what kind of alternate reality you're living in, but when Jesus and the founding fathers sat down to write the constitution they only intended for the good christian landed gentry to be able to vote. At this point voter ID wasn't necessary, because folks of their ilk could be trusted, and pocket sized portraits all looked pretty much the same. Move forward 200 years, and we find ourselves in a very different predicament. In order to keep with the desires of the founding fathers we have to find other ways to keep the people who are mirror images of the founding fathers and our lord and savior jesus christ in power. It's the only way that we can go back to the America that they intended.
 
2012-09-28 03:16:12 PM  

Bschott007: ...as just another tool in their quiver...


This is why you can never find those allen wrenches when you need them.
 
2012-09-28 03:19:09 PM  

Vegan Meat Popsicle: Seriously, though. At this point self-identifying as a conservative is basically the same as just saying "I don't care what's real anymore".


To be a truly free man, it is not enough to be entitled to your own opinion, you must also be entitled to your own facts.
 
2012-09-28 03:23:05 PM  

Bschott007: Logic, how does it work?


Is this an honest question? Your post leads me to believe you need a lesson or two.
 
2012-09-28 03:44:24 PM  

ongbok: Do you think that the republicans would hire consulting firms and tell them to do illegal stuff like this or whatever is necessary to win, then throw them under the bus just so that they can prove that voter fraud is real and therefore the need for voter I.D's, just so they can push their voter suppression tactics?


No, but I do think they would continue to press the (non) issue to show the black guy as somehow illegitimatly occupying the White House.
 
2012-09-28 04:06:25 PM  
Every time the repubs accuse the Democrats of doing something awful, it turns out they've been doing it themselves. Under the circumstances, I must conclude the repub Party has a secret agenda to turn the USA into a Communist dictatorship. They are doing this by deliberately sabotaging the economy, pauperizing the working classes and turning the middle class into hopeless wage slaves. They are in fact moving the country in the direction of genuine class warfare in the expectation that they will lose. Why they want to do this is beyond me, but it may be part of an even larger agenda to turn everyone gay.

Why repubs? Why are you forcing your gay, Communist agenda on America?
 
2012-09-28 04:22:27 PM  

tallguywithglasseson: Diogenes: The latter largely requires the former.

Guess ACORN really was as dangerous as they said, then.


I guess we need a government investigation of of this company and how much the RNC coordinated with them. Then we can compare the results to the ACORN investigation to see if they are alike in what laws were violated.
 
2012-09-28 04:25:50 PM  

PC LOAD LETTER: fickenchucker: Wrong is wrong. Rather than lefties smirk and ignore the issue, why not agree our voter registration & ID methods are jokes and tighten them up?

The foundation of our nation's stability is the trust in the voting system. Republican or Democrat, there will be a-holes trying to exploit the lack of good oversight.

Absolutely, but we can't piss on a convenient demographic that happens to vote for one party in the process and then shrug and say "your fault" to them. ID has to be free and easy to obtain. And by easy, I mean REALLY easy. The shiat my friends who moved to PA are going through just to get a drivers license is insane. I know if my ID was not correct, I would have a royal pain here in NY get a new one: we have all our bills electronic, so I would need a paper bill (they don't accept printouts), I would need to find my BC, which is an even more pain to get if I lost it (I don't remember the last time I needed to use it). I would need to take off a half day at least to go to the DMV, wait in line for hours, deal with the nasty employees, and then run the risk of being told my docs are not valid. Which means another half day off from work. I can do the half day, my boss won't care. Most people I know would either lose money or possibly get fired for it.

Why are we tying the right to vote to THE single most inefficient process in ANY state? I am personally opposed to National ID for Orwellian reasons, but that's the proper solution.

Until you can truly minimize any disenfranchisement, then keep the current laws and deal with the handful of in-person voter fraud cases that pop up every year.




You know what--I think I agree with you. See what willingness to compromise does? We both think it's important to have an ID, and I'm willing to grant it might not be as easy for some people to get one as it is for me. The DMV hours probably could be addressed.

Now, for a rhetorical question--who doesn't have a copy of their birth certificate? I've had one for thirty years ready to access for every job application (when I was younger) to driver's license and passport I've ever needed. Part of being an adult is to have a BC at the ready. Luckily getting a DL is a six-block walk and takes an hour.
 
2012-09-28 05:21:20 PM  

fickenchucker: Now, for a rhetorical question--who doesn't have a copy of their birth certificate?


*Raises hand*

I mean, I probably have one somewhere in a file. I remember getting a couple copies last time I needed one.

But I have a SS Card, a passport and a License, so I haven't had to pull a BC out since I got the passport.

And like PC LOAD LETTER said above, if I can't find it, I can afford to waste a day wandering around town trying to get another one, and can afford to pay for one. I also know that I'm incredibly lucky.
 
2012-09-28 05:39:46 PM  

Soup4Bonnie: Bschott007: ...as just another tool in their quiver...

This is why you can never find those allen wrenches when you need them.


I lol.

/funnied
 
2012-09-28 06:59:00 PM  

Diogenes: The Jami Turman Fan Club: Diogenes: tallguywithglasseson: Registration fraud. TFA doesn't mention any fraudulent votes cast.

The latter largely requires the former.

Can you cite even a single case where a person committed voter fraud via registration fraud?

You're missing my larger point.


I quoted your entire post. What was your larger point?

The usual issues are:
1) They're using somebody else's ID to vote, but the other person is registered properly, or
2) They vote in two places, each of which they've registered in legally.

This includes dead people voting, people who move and then vote in both their old and new location, and people claiming to be somebody else when they get to the polls. If there has been a single case of registration fraud leading to voter fraud, I'd like to see it.
 
2012-09-28 08:53:21 PM  

fickenchucker: PC LOAD LETTER: fickenchucker: Wrong is wrong. Rather than lefties smirk and ignore the issue, why not agree our voter registration & ID methods are jokes and tighten them up?

The foundation of our nation's stability is the trust in the voting system. Republican or Democrat, there will be a-holes trying to exploit the lack of good oversight.

Absolutely, but we can't piss on a convenient demographic that happens to vote for one party in the process and then shrug and say "your fault" to them. ID has to be free and easy to obtain. And by easy, I mean REALLY easy. The shiat my friends who moved to PA are going through just to get a drivers license is insane. I know if my ID was not correct, I would have a royal pain here in NY get a new one: we have all our bills electronic, so I would need a paper bill (they don't accept printouts), I would need to find my BC, which is an even more pain to get if I lost it (I don't remember the last time I needed to use it). I would need to take off a half day at least to go to the DMV, wait in line for hours, deal with the nasty employees, and then run the risk of being told my docs are not valid. Which means another half day off from work. I can do the half day, my boss won't care. Most people I know would either lose money or possibly get fired for it.

Why are we tying the right to vote to THE single most inefficient process in ANY state? I am personally opposed to National ID for Orwellian reasons, but that's the proper solution.

Until you can truly minimize any disenfranchisement, then keep the current laws and deal with the handful of in-person voter fraud cases that pop up every year.



You know what--I think I agree with you. See what willingness to compromise does? We both think it's important to have an ID, and I'm willing to grant it might not be as easy for some people to get one as it is for me. The DMV hours probably could be addressed.

Now, for a rhetorical question--who doesn't have a copy of their birth cer ...


I don't...like a lot of people, who knows where it went in the course of myriad moves from place to place? I've got my original SS card and my drivers license is up to date, so I rarely need it.

Here's a solution: put the ID station in the local grocery stores. Everyone's got one of those, and everyone can get there. Set up a little kiosk in the corner, like a lot of them have banks or even dry cleaners, and keep it staffed during regular grocery store hours. ID is free, and if they have to pay for the space, let them post store ads or something. Sure, that would require hiring extra people to keep the places staffed--but aren't we trying to create more jobs anyway?

Problem solved.
 
2012-09-28 09:18:17 PM  
This is just the step between no ID to the time you have ID, but when they scan your drivers license (as done in AZ) that suddenly you have been denied.
Yeah, you have ID, but for some "electronic error" with the system, you have been deemed unworthy to vote.

Perhaps that Medical Marijuana License gives the Feds reason to call you a felon and they have revoked your right to vote.

/Mark my words people.
 
2012-09-28 10:19:47 PM  

Bschott007: So you have to be a Republican to believe that someone would try to create fraudulent registrations as just another tool in their quiver to affect the election? I am a left-leaning Independent (Clinton,Bush, Kerry, Obama...and I plan to vote for President Obama again) but I do think that Republicans would be smart enough to think to use Fraudulent registrations, ballot box stuffing, tossing out valid ballots, and forging elderly absentee ballots to affect an election.

Christ, everyone agrees this is just one way to affect an election but I doubt many intelligent people believe this is the only way to affect an election.


It's not an *effective* way to affect an election, especially because the clerk's office will cross-reference the names & addresses with various databases to ensure the right person registers with the right address. Just because some idiot fills out a fake registration card hardly immediately puts them on the rolls to vote.

And it's simply a matter of volume; the sheer number of votes it would take to make a difference would make it one of the least efficient ways to tamper with the elections process, and a high risk of being caught. Tampering with vote counting or absentee ballots would be far more effective with lower risk of being caught.
 
2012-09-29 12:00:26 AM  
Corvus:


To be fair this is still only registration fraud not true voter fraud however it is what Republicans called "voter fraud" in the past.
i1139.photobucket.com
 
Displayed 97 of 97 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


This thread is archived, and closed to new comments.

Continue Farking
Submit a Link »
On Twitter





In Other Media


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.

Report