IAmRight: Research idea for someone who actually has the time, resources, and inclination to do this (hell, maybe I'll get to it when I start grad school) - see how much the announcers affect how we feel about referee calls. And how much pre-existing information, like knowing "these are the pros," affects it.Basically, show last night's game with different groups of people:People that are told they're replacement refsPeople that aren't told anything about the refsPeople that are told that these are professional refsPeople that watch the game with announcers supporting the refs' decisionsPeople that watch the game in silencePeople that watch the game with announcers criticizing each flag/non-flagI'd be really interested to see how much influence those two factors have on our opinions of how games are officiated. I think it was better with the "real" refs back, but it was interesting how much the broadcasting team supported the refs' decisions on every single play, even describing things that didn't happen as having happened in order to make it seem right. Compare it to how critical they were of the replacement refs, especially last weekend (not to say that they didn't deserve it, but they were pretty quick to point out that it was a bad call on any questionable call, or at least they'd trot out the old "you have to wonder about whether the regular refs would've called that" line).
IAmRight: I also wonder about instant replay - I'm sure other people notice when they don't play a replay on a play that you really want to see a replay on, because there was something questionable about it, but the announcers are too busy praising the play to bother pointing it out...you can't get SUPER outraged because you don't know for sure, but at the same time, you wonder about it for a while.
Jubeebee: I've been watching the game focused on the O-line and D-line a lot, and on a lot of those sort of plays, the D-line steps up big and someone makes a really nice play.
Jubeebee: My pet peeve for the last few seasons is they don't show replays of 'minor plays' when an RB gains like 2 yards or there's an incomplete pass. I've been watching the game focused on the O-line and D-line a lot, and on a lot of those sort of plays, the D-line steps up big and someone makes a really nice play. But because it was some anonymous 300lb monster amidst a pile of other monsters instead of a personable skill player on someone's fantasy team, it never gets recognized.
This Looks Fun: I found that really frustrating when trying to describe the different roles of players to my wife. She comes from a basketball background and thinks football is just a free-for-all (well, she used to). It's hard to really show good run blocking and QB protection because of the fact that they do what you said; they either ignore the linemen in replays or they just don't show the replay of plays that die near the line of scrimmage. I ended up having to plug in Madden and do slow motion replays of players engaging in their roles.
IAmRight: There are a few times I want to see the holding calls and what is/isn't called on a regular basis.
Jubeebee: That speedy bastard Irvin on your Seahawks had people putting him in headlocks from behind the entire second half on Monday night, and I think he drew one flag.
Marcus Aurelius: The difference was like night and day.
IAmRight: BTW, here's a nice follow-up on the play that everyone got so mad about that they idiotically proclaimed the "worst call ever." And apparently I'm not the only one who doesn't think it was a bad call.
Incog_Neeto: Marcus Aurelius: The difference was like night and day.^This especially the speed. 1pm games where running into 4pm games significantly because of just how slow everything was becoming.
JonPace: Quit being such a homer and living in such denial. That play call was terrible and if it was any other team than the Seahawks you'd be saying the same thing.
Harv72b: Well hey, if the guy who compiled the database of fourth-quarter comebacks for pro-football-reference.com says it was a catch then I'm sold./I don't want to argue about this anymore.//Why do you?
IAmRight: Feel free to read the article instead of just saying whatever you want based on stupid announcers like Gruden. Anyway, I wasn't saying that the replacement refs were good. They sucked. It's just that the call that they based their whole outrage on wasn't even a bad call at all.
Olympic Trolling Judge: Read the article. The guy doesn't know how possession works on a catch. Tate was going to ground when he (allegedly) caught the ball, on account of M.D. Jennings was falling on him, so possession isn't established until he's all the way down. The fact that the guy can get such a well-known rule wrong (Megatron says hi) is... discomforting.
IAmRight: Because, within that article, there's video from behind the play that shows Tate does have a hell of a lot of control of that ball. It also makes a pretty goddamn solid case for simultaneous possession, and the idea that someone would call that the worst call they've seen in their life is beyond offensive, as it wasn't even the worst call of the season, weekend, game, half, quarter, drive, or even the worst mistake of the play. And I'm not cool with everyone just going on believing horsesh*t fed to them by a whole bunch of people with amazingly biased viewpoints. (Mine is biased as well, but its in the interest of truth that both sides have their voices heard and evidence presented, rather than one-sided crap).
IAmRight: I'd be really interested to see how much influence those two factors have on our opinions of how games are officiated. I think it was better with the "real" refs back, but it was interesting how much the broadcasting team supported the refs' decisions on every single play, even describing things that didn't happen as having happened in order to make it seem right. Compare it to how critical they were of the replacement refs, especially last weekend (not to say that they didn't deserve it, but they were pretty quick to point out that it was a bad call on any questionable call, or at least they'd trot out the old "you have to wonder about whether the regular refs would've called that" line).
Gosling: I'm sure there's going to be a bit of a confirmation bias, but I'm equally sure that the regular refs are not likely to throw their hats beneath players' feet during a play, or mix up which 44-yard line the ball is supposed to be spotted at.
Harv72b: FWIW, I still hold that the 27-yard personal foul in Tennessee was the most glaring example of replacement ineptitude.
IAmRight: I think my favorite thing about it is that both that and Washington's 20-yard personal foul are both recorded in the play-by-play as though they were perfectly normal things.
toby8915: I love how everyone forgets that it was the real refs who Got the coin toss wrong!
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