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(Foobies)   Pilots nearly die when landing plane - and Lufthansa actually thought they could cover it up?   (thelocal.de) divider line 44
    More: Scary, Lufthansa, black boxes, low-cost carrier, SPD, house of parliament  
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12191 clicks; posted to Main » on 28 Sep 2012 at 10:27 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



44 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-09-28 09:43:26 AM
kharminspage.com
They should have had the lasgna
 
2012-09-28 10:01:29 AM
/Airbus
//Scarebus
///FL35
 
2012-09-28 10:29:18 AM

Charlie Freak: /Airbus
//Scarebus
///FL35


Another Boeing supplier chimes in.
 
2012-09-28 10:30:10 AM
Lufthansa: Es ist eine ganz andere Art des Fliegens, insgesamt.

/"Können Sie diese Maschine fliegen und landen ?" - "Das meinen Sie doch nicht ernst!?" - "Doch mein ich. Und nennen Sie mich nicht Ernst!"
 
2012-09-28 10:31:01 AM
Could be worse. It could have been an F-22
 
2012-09-28 10:32:03 AM
Or an Osprey.
 
2012-09-28 10:35:07 AM

ChipNASA: Could be worse. It could have been an F-22


Killing over 100 isn't better than killing 1, just saying....
 
2012-09-28 10:35:29 AM

readbot42: Or an Osprey.


Had the fish fumes.
 
2012-09-28 10:37:41 AM

readbot42: Or an Osprey.


As God as my witness, I thought Ospreys could fly.
 
2012-09-28 10:40:27 AM
Were they on instruments?
 
2012-09-28 10:41:25 AM
I just want to say, good luck, HWARF!!
 
2012-09-28 10:46:13 AM
Wow 8 tonnes of fuel. How many tons is that?
 
2012-09-28 10:47:32 AM
kristinhoppe.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-28 10:57:54 AM
Sounds like they did cover it up - no data from flight recorders means they'll get nothing worse than a slap on the wrist.
 
2012-09-28 11:01:52 AM
An airbus carrying around 150 people nearly crashed at Cologne airport, when both pilots were so badly affected by contaminated air in the cockpit

It figures that the air around Cologne has a really strong smell.
 
2012-09-28 11:02:32 AM
How the frak does de-icing fluid get into the cockpit air supply?
 
2012-09-28 11:06:21 AM
www.freedomsphoenix.com
 
2012-09-28 11:13:59 AM

Dixie_Wrecked: Wow 8 tonnes of fuel. How many tons is that?


8.82
 
2012-09-28 11:29:08 AM

Paris1127: Lufthansa: Es ist eine ganz andere Art des Fliegens, insgesamt.


What, nobody? Fine. "Es ist eine ganz andere Art des Fliegens,"
 
2012-09-28 11:29:34 AM
Wow, it has to go this long before someone points out it was Germanwings and not Lufthansa?
 
2012-09-28 11:29:53 AM

PlatinumDragon: How the frak does de-icing fluid get into the cockpit air supply?


Yes... and also, airplane de-icing fluid is either propylene glycol or ethylene glycol.

Propylene glycol is the media used in e-cigs, due to direct inhalation the "dose" is massive. Ethylene glycol is toxic, that's automotive antifreeze- but ethylene glycol doesn't cause O2 deprivation. It's a CNS depressant and poisons the heart and kidneys. Never heard of a low O2 saturation symptom, and there'd be a whole slew of other symptoms if any real tests were done.
 
2012-09-28 11:30:52 AM
I'd just like to point out or comment that THIS is what I think of when people start going off about how businesses and corporations can "self-regulate".

Beer?
No?
Then get off my lawn
 
2012-09-28 11:31:08 AM
img844.imageshack.us

When the options are steak or fish, remember: always have the lasagna.
 
2012-09-28 11:41:14 AM
They probably hadn't felt so ill since they saw that Ronald Reagan movie.
 
2012-09-28 11:42:16 AM
The pilots had to be taken to a hospital right away.....
 
2012-09-28 11:54:19 AM
Jimmy was cutting every link between himself and the robbery

cf.drafthouse.com
 
2012-09-28 12:36:16 PM

Oznog: PlatinumDragon: How the frak does de-icing fluid get into the cockpit air supply?

Yes... and also, airplane de-icing fluid is either propylene glycol or ethylene glycol.

Propylene glycol is the media used in e-cigs, due to direct inhalation the "dose" is massive. Ethylene glycol is toxic, that's automotive antifreeze- but ethylene glycol doesn't cause O2 deprivation. It's a CNS depressant and poisons the heart and kidneys. Never heard of a low O2 saturation symptom, and there'd be a whole slew of other symptoms if any real tests were done.


My first thought was carbon monoxide.
 
2012-09-28 12:47:50 PM
I thought there was an aviation law that 1 pilot has to wear an O2 mask at all times
although it was hardly ever enforced.

/I could be wrong....
 
2012-09-28 12:55:22 PM

PlatinumDragon: Oznog: PlatinumDragon: How the frak does de-icing fluid get into the cockpit air supply?

Yes... and also, airplane de-icing fluid is either propylene glycol or ethylene glycol.

Propylene glycol is the media used in e-cigs, due to direct inhalation the "dose" is massive. Ethylene glycol is toxic, that's automotive antifreeze- but ethylene glycol doesn't cause O2 deprivation. It's a CNS depressant and poisons the heart and kidneys. Never heard of a low O2 saturation symptom, and there'd be a whole slew of other symptoms if any real tests were done.

My first thought was carbon monoxide.


Sure. That's consistent with CO poisoning. But you don't get CO from antifreeze. Unlike a car, there's no path I can see for getting CO from a jet engine into a cabin.

The air pressure in a jet comes from air bled off the compressor stage of the jet, which is physically very separated from fuel and combustion. There is a case of the "fume event" where a failed engine bearing seal leaks oil into the airstream and it gets into the cabin. The possible symptoms of inhaling fumes from synthetic oil are not well know, but a "low blood O2 saturation" would be difficult to imagine.

You can get deicing fluid in the engine too, and it gets into the cabin. But it's not going to be BURNING antifreeze. Sure ethylene glycol is toxic but again hard to associate with low blood O2. Also it should affect everyone onboard equally. Also AFAIK the deicing fluid would only be a residual amount from ground deicing, so if it's gonna get in, it would do it only very early in the flight. Cabin air is replaced with fresh air regularly, it wouldn't be recirculated for long at all.
 
2012-09-28 01:39:28 PM
My best friend experienced something like this while a Captain for a major US carrier on A-319/20/21's I think after de-icing some years back. It affected some aircraft and not others. Cabin crew included
 
2012-09-28 01:57:09 PM

Oznog: PlatinumDragon: Oznog: PlatinumDragon: How the frak does de-icing fluid get into the cockpit air supply?

Yes... and also, airplane de-icing fluid is either propylene glycol or ethylene glycol.

Propylene glycol is the media used in e-cigs, due to direct inhalation the "dose" is massive. Ethylene glycol is toxic, that's automotive antifreeze- but ethylene glycol doesn't cause O2 deprivation. It's a CNS depressant and poisons the heart and kidneys. Never heard of a low O2 saturation symptom, and there'd be a whole slew of other symptoms if any real tests were done.

My first thought was carbon monoxide.

Sure. That's consistent with CO poisoning. But you don't get CO from antifreeze. Unlike a car, there's no path I can see for getting CO from a jet engine into a cabin.

The air pressure in a jet comes from air bled off the compressor stage of the jet, which is physically very separated from fuel and combustion. There is a case of the "fume event" where a failed engine bearing seal leaks oil into the airstream and it gets into the cabin. The possible symptoms of inhaling fumes from synthetic oil are not well know, but a "low blood O2 saturation" would be difficult to imagine.

You can get deicing fluid in the engine too, and it gets into the cabin. But it's not going to be BURNING antifreeze. Sure ethylene glycol is toxic but again hard to associate with low blood O2. Also it should affect everyone onboard equally. Also AFAIK the deicing fluid would only be a residual amount from ground deicing, so if it's gonna get in, it would do it only very early in the flight. Cabin air is replaced with fresh air regularly, it wouldn't be recirculated for long at all.


Which is why the de-icing fluid explanation makes me go "huh?" If the pressure's still up where it should be, the flight crew has symptoms of oxygen deprivation, there's no unusual smell reported, and the passengers are OK, then the problem is somewhere after the point where air is diverted to the cockpit, no?
 
2012-09-28 02:09:59 PM
PlatinumDragon: How the frak does de-icing fluid get into the cockpit air supply?

So you want to use a curse word. But you also want to tone it down a bit, make it a little more family-friendly perhaps. You want to use a mild euphemism for that curse word, a euphemism that suggests the original but in a gentler way. You want it to start with "f" and end with "k." Maybe include an "a" and and "r" in there too.

So you choose ... frak?
 
2012-09-28 02:15:49 PM

Seacop: Jimmy was cutting every link between himself and the robbery

[cf.drafthouse.com image 665x363]


I came here for this. Now I"ll have the piano exit from Layla running through my head all day.
 
2012-09-28 02:25:14 PM

Hofheim: Wow, it has to go this long before someone points out it was Germanwings and not Lufthansa?


Foreign countries are only allowed one airline and language each. It's a rule.

/ The *Wings airlines are seriously budget
 
2012-09-28 02:46:44 PM

Nakito: PlatinumDragon: How the frak does de-icing fluid get into the cockpit air supply?

So you want to use a curse word. But you also want to tone it down a bit, make it a little more family-friendly perhaps. You want to use a mild euphemism for that curse word, a euphemism that suggests the original but in a gentler way. You want it to start with "f" and end with "k." Maybe include an "a" and and "r" in there too.

So you choose ... frak?


With some research, you might be able to determine which entertainment programs I've enjoyed.

How's the view down your nose?
 
2012-09-28 03:22:47 PM

Strobeguy: I thought there was an aviation law that 1 pilot has to wear an O2 mask at all timesalthough it was hardly ever enforced./I could be wrong....


Such a rule exists, but only when flying at altitudes higher than any airliner is likely to go.

Oznog: The air pressure in a jet comes from air bled off the compressor stage of the jet, which is physically very separated from fuel and combustion. There is a case of the "fume event" where a failed engine bearing seal leaks oil into the airstream and it gets into the cabin. The possible symptoms of inhaling fumes from synthetic oil are not well know, but a "low blood O2 saturation" would be difficult to imagine.You can get deicing fluid in the engine too, and it gets into the cabin. But it's not going to be BURNING antifreeze. Sure ethylene glycol is toxic but again hard to associate with low blood O2. Also it should affect everyone onboard equally. Also AFAIK the deicing fluid would only be a residual amount from ground deicing, so if it's gonna get in, it would do it only very early in the flight. Cabin air is replaced with fresh air regularly, it wouldn't be recirculated for long at all.


That's all true if they're using the engines for bleed air. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find out that the APU was on and providing bleed air for environmentals, and that could explain why the de-icing smell wasn't present earlier in the flight. The de-icing guys try their best not to get it into the inlet, but it happens sometimes..
 
2012-09-28 04:57:04 PM

Marcintosh: I'd just like to point out or comment that THIS is what I think of when people start going off about how businesses and corporations can "self-regulate".


Let's see what happen after a couple of planes crash due to poor maintenance. Are you going to fly that airline? No? Well, that's called "self-regulation."
 
2012-09-28 05:13:02 PM
PlatinumDragon: How's the view down your nose?

Kind of cross-eyed, I guess. What I meant to say was something like, "It's not snew, it's FRAK." But it seems to have been lost in translation.

/Not that this is much clearer.
 
2012-09-28 05:20:28 PM
Just wondering, with the advances in survivable recording media, if there has been any move to moving to, say, flash memory instead of the wire technology that I have heard is used in the various emergency recording devices. Maybe make it so that as part of the post-flight, it gets stripped and kept for a designated amount of time?
 
2012-09-28 05:49:25 PM
By the way, does anyone know how to fly a plane?
 
2012-09-28 07:55:10 PM

The Beatings Will Continue Until Morale Improves: Dixie_Wrecked: Wow 8 tonnes of fuel. How many tons is that?

8.82


Or 7.87, if you're using long tons...
 
2012-09-29 01:10:50 AM

Ranger677: Just wondering, with the advances in survivable recording media, if there has been any move to moving to, say, flash memory instead of the wire technology that I have heard is used in the various emergency recording devices. Maybe make it so that as part of the post-flight, it gets stripped and kept for a designated amount of time?


I manage a fleet of aircraft that are too small to require traditional flight data recorders or cockpit voice recorders, but we've installed a system that stores all sorts of flight data as well as cockpit audio for the entire flight on flash memory. When it arrives back at base, it uploads all the info and analyzes it for anomalies, like extended flight below 500' or significant g-loads.

All that to say yes, for sure, but not officially.
 
2012-09-29 02:57:57 AM

Hofheim: Wow, it has to go this long before someone points out it was Germanwings and not Lufthansa?


As per the article, Germanwings is owned by Lufthansa.
 
2012-09-30 09:15:56 PM
That's right. Germanwings is a separate airline, which is owned by Lufthansa. But is not Lufthansa.
 
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