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(C|Net)   Protip for Google: if you're going to slam Apple's new maps for not being able to find an address, you might want to make sure that address actually exists first   (news.cnet.com) divider line 69
    More: Fail, Motorola Mobility, Daniel Terdiman, Razr, AppleInsider, Droid RAZR, Google Maps  
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2624 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Sep 2012 at 12:20 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-28 09:57:11 AM  
Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.
 
2012-09-28 11:03:12 AM  
I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).
 
2012-09-28 12:24:29 PM  

BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.


pro·jec·tion (pr-jkshn)
n.
...
8. Psychology
a. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or suppositions to others: "Even trained anthropologists have been guilty of unconscious projectionof clothing the subjects of their research in theories brought with them into the field" (Alex Shoumatoff).
b. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.
 
2012-09-28 12:26:15 PM  
Seems more like Motorola fail to me... not really surprised though.
 
2012-09-28 12:26:26 PM  

wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.


SSSHHHHH...let them keep digging their hole...
 
2012-09-28 12:27:36 PM  

woodstock827: Seems more like Motorola fail to me... not really surprised though.


To be fair, Motorola Mobility is part of Google. But yeah, culturally and bureaucratically, they're still their own entity.
 
2012-09-28 12:27:42 PM  

wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.


Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?
 
2012-09-28 12:29:38 PM  
Not having either type of phone (I'm using a company provided Blackberry), maybe they are going the route of 555 numbers and not giving a real address so dumbasses don't start going there.
 
2012-09-28 12:30:38 PM  

LasersHurt: wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.

Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?


And why would a person be searching for an address using a hidden/unused street name?
 
2012-09-28 12:31:44 PM  

BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).


We need you to post more graphs and crying baby pictures. That never gets old.
 
2012-09-28 12:32:53 PM  

LasersHurt: wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.

Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?


Makes finding new places that may not otherwise yet be explicitly known by the system a lot easier (or rather, at all possible). Otherwise, your map software will just sh*t on itself and tell you that that new restaurant that just opened doesn't exist. But you're right, no one would ever realistically search for an address without some sort of lead on it, so it was rather silly of Motorola to make this point...unless they were trying to point out aforementioned scenario, which I doubt.
 
2012-09-28 12:34:03 PM  

LasersHurt: Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?


As a test.
 
2012-09-28 12:35:07 PM  
Dude needs to watch this pertinent documentary clip.
 
2012-09-28 12:36:06 PM  

LasersHurt: wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.

Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?


In general, I'd be surprised if the map databases explicitly list very many addresses. They probably just include a starting and ending address for the street and interpolate based on that. It's much more efficient, requires a lot less data entry, and doesn't require new every new building to be entered into the database. So when you search for 315 E 15th, it doesn't know or care if there is really a building there. It's just going to put a pin where the street plan would put such a location.
 
2012-09-28 12:38:53 PM  
Should have used Autosort

/piles of dirt need address love too
 
2012-09-28 12:39:21 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: In general, I'd be surprised if the map databases explicitly list very many addresses. They probably just include a starting and ending address for the street and interpolate based on that. It's much more efficient, requires a lot less data entry, and doesn't require new every new building to be entered into the database. So when you search for 315 E 15th, it doesn't know or care if there is really a building there. It's just going to put a pin where the street plan would put such a location.


This seems to be what both google maps and bing are doing.  Oh, and Mapquest, which apparently still exists.
 
2012-09-28 12:39:52 PM  
Apples maps sux and it's because of Google. Gotcha.
 
2012-09-28 12:40:54 PM  

Pockafrusta: Apples maps sux and it's because of Google. Gotcha.


How is that possibly your take-away from this? Jesus.
 
2012-09-28 12:45:10 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

pro·jec·tion (pr-jkshn)
n.
...
8. Psychology
a. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or suppositions to others: "Even trained anthropologists have been guilty of unconscious projectionof clothing the subjects of their research in theories brought with them into the field" (Alex Shoumatoff).
b. The attribution of one's own attitudes, feelings, or desires to someone or something as a naive or unconscious defense against anxiety or guilt.


Pulease. You're as big of a troll as Abe.
 
2012-09-28 12:46:54 PM  

SacriliciousBeerSwiller: Makes finding new places that may not otherwise yet be explicitly known by the system a lot easier (or rather, at all possible). Otherwise, your map software will just sh*t on itself and tell you that that new restaurant that just opened doesn't exist. But you're right, no one would ever realistically search for an address without some sort of lead on it, so it was rather silly of Motorola to make this point...unless they were trying to point out aforementioned scenario, which I doubt.


Yeah, google maps uses extrapolation rules for some addresses if it isn't in the system based on how civic addresses are assigned. Like you said, this makes finding novel addresses that might not have been updated in relevant databases easier.

BullBearMS: In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).


Big surprise, when you have an open OS you run in to problems with manufacturers and carriers not making updates available in a timely fashion. It is a problem that needs to be overcome but going as fully locked down and "my way or the highway" as Apple is not the solution.
 
2012-09-28 12:47:28 PM  

wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.


That's true. Right next to my house, 2458 Wilson, is 2458.00000000001 Wilson
 
2012-09-28 12:56:14 PM  

BullBearMS: In just the past week, I've learned that people trolled a loooooot of people...


Indeed you have, sir. Indeed you have.
 
2012-09-28 01:00:16 PM  

Fish in a Barrel: LasersHurt: wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.

Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?

In general, I'd be surprised if the map databases explicitly list very many addresses. They probably just include a starting and ending address for the street and interpolate based on that. It's much more efficient, requires a lot less data entry, and doesn't require new every new building to be entered into the database. So when you search for 315 E 15th, it doesn't know or care if there is really a building there. It's just going to put a pin where the street plan would put such a location.


That would work in some cases but my parents live at 202 and their next door neighbor loves at 135 on the same tiny street.
 
2012-09-28 01:01:47 PM  

moothemagiccow: That's true. Right next to my house, 2458 Wilson, is 2458.00000000001 Wilson


I know a very nice snail who lives there!
 
2012-09-28 01:16:01 PM  
Google knows by now that the iHater cult will believe (and parrot) any anti-Apple propaganda they put out, no matter how lame or transparent.
 
2012-09-28 01:23:20 PM  
FTFA: First, that Apple's Maps actually does the right thing when you ask it to find 315 E. 15th St. in New York, and second, that Google's own maps service takes you to an invalid address when you enter those coordinates.

The author has those extremely backwards. If I put in an address, and it sends me to somewhere completely different, then that is wrong behavior. Why the hell would I want to know where a particular address was located over a century ago, and then present that information as current? If I put in an address, and it sends me as close to that address as it can, then that is right behavior. I am a delivery driver, and the former behavior would be absolutely useless for me, as it wouldn't give me any clue as to the correct location. The latter would be exactly what I want, as I could then manually verify whether that address actually existed.

That said, Google's newer maps app (not sure how long ago the update actually came out) has farked up the recently entered locations. It used to be that you cleared the search box and this list came up. Now a list of random places (that I've never been to) within a ~10-mile radius comes up. It seems they're now storing this info remotely, as it usually works when I'm hooked up to wifi (but has worked maybe twice in the past two months on 3g). Is there a way to install an older version of maps? Or has anyone else found a way around this? I generally love google maps, but it is unacceptable that an improvement to a feature (that was working perfectly fine) would prevent me from actually using that feature.
 
2012-09-28 01:25:25 PM  
I live in a part of a city where the streets, lots, and addresses were laid out around 100 years ago.

However the people who built the houses here mostly found the lot widths too narrow so most (I haven't systematically checked) houses are built on double lots. This means that half of the assigned addresses don't really exist - the addresses of next door neighbors differ by 4, not the usual 2.

Google of course can locate the missing addresses.
 
2012-09-28 01:29:56 PM  

Tobin_Lam: That would work in some cases but my parents live at 202 and their next door neighbor loves at 135 on the same tiny street.


Yeah, that's just one example of why any mapping software has to be designed around the fact that there really are no hard and fast rules when it comes to roads. There's an interchange near my house where you drive on the left side of the road.
 
2012-09-28 01:52:29 PM  
Thread loses points for no one having already pointed out the author's name: "Terdiman".
 
2012-09-28 01:59:59 PM  

LasersHurt: wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.

Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?


Ever wanted to find a block on a street without having to guess several dozen numbers just to find a 'real' address?

"I'm looking for the 900 block of Hastings Street because I can't remember the exact address of that Icecream shop I like. Too bad I can't just type in '900 Hastings Street, New York'.... Oh wait, I can."
 
2012-09-28 02:00:15 PM  
So I guess according to Apple, Blackberries are designed in Greater Berlin

/obscure? Google it
 
2012-09-28 02:08:44 PM  

BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).


"When faced with the choice of changing their minds or proving that it is unnecessary to do so, most people immediately get busy on the proof." J. K. Galbraith.
 
2012-09-28 02:09:15 PM  

falkone32: FTFA: First, that Apple's Maps actually does the right thing when you ask it to find 315 E. 15th St. in New York, and second, that Google's own maps service takes you to an invalid address when you enter those coordinates.

The author has those extremely backwards. If I put in an address, and it sends me to somewhere completely different, then that is wrong behavior. Why the hell would I want to know where a particular address was located over a century ago, and then present that information as current? If I put in an address, and it sends me as close to that address as it can, then that is right behavior. I am a delivery driver, and the former behavior would be absolutely useless for me, as it wouldn't give me any clue as to the correct location. The latter would be exactly what I want, as I could then manually verify whether that address actually existed.


I disagree... If someone gives you a street name and a number, you'd expect to be able to go to that number on the street and find your location, even if that block of the street had been renamed. For example, here in Boston, in the space of three blocks, route 9 is known as Huntington Ave., Boylston St., and Washington St. If someone told you to go to #45 Boylston St., you want to get to the right address, even if it happens to be #45 Washington St.

Apple's Maps is doing the right thing - it asks which one you meant:
photos.appleinsider.com
The wrong thing would be simply picking one randomly and directing you there.
 
2012-09-28 02:10:22 PM  

DuudeStanky: LasersHurt: wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.

Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?

Ever wanted to find a block on a street without having to guess several dozen numbers just to find a 'real' address?

"I'm looking for the 900 block of Hastings Street because I can't remember the exact address of that Icecream shop I like. Too bad I can't just type in '900 Hastings Street, New York'.... Oh wait, I can."


You could also type in "ice cream, Hastings Street, New York," which would work better, no?
 
2012-09-28 02:11:06 PM  

DuudeStanky: LasersHurt: wxboy: Just because there's no building there doesn't mean there can't be an address. In theory every point along a street has an address.

Doesn't really make sense though, since it's only in theory. Why would a person be searching for a theoretical address?

Ever wanted to find a block on a street without having to guess several dozen numbers just to find a 'real' address?

"I'm looking for the 900 block of Hastings Street because I can't remember the exact address of that Icecream shop I like. Too bad I can't just type in '900 Hastings Street, New York'.... Oh wait, I can."


I do that alot when I need to go to a function and I know the name of the place and block but not the actual address. I'll just make up an address and tell it to map there. I had to do it this weekend for my wife's company picnic. Would have been pissed if it wouldn't have guessed round about where I needed to go. Get me to the street and general area and I'll be fine.
 
2012-09-28 02:36:47 PM  
CSB incoming.

I used to work on a horse farm in Suffolk. There used to be classes there in horse riding and such, so many folks would try to get directions to the place by using Mapquest. Only problem was that Mapquest kept on directing many people over a bridge that no longer existed, so they ended up getting stranded and having to call the farm to get redirected.

It got so bad that my boss ended up contacting the local eyewitness news to figure out why this kept happening. So in turn the news contacted the Mapquest folks and they learned that Mapquest was picking and choosing which GPS locations they could update. Something about buying certain local updates from some agency and skipping others because they were "too expensive". But you know who DID keep constantly updated through all this time? Google Maps. And everyone who used Google Maps in 2007 had no problem finding us.

Kinda explains why you don't hear much about Mapquest anymore.
 
2012-09-28 02:53:38 PM  
That was the derpiest "OH YEEEEAH?!" come-back I think I've ever read.

Apple Maps sucks, Google Maps sucks less.

//I still don't understand why about half the time when I start to search for anything, the predictions start all over the goddamn world instead of the 50-mile radius in which I SPEND 99.9999% OF MY TIME.
 
2012-09-28 03:02:50 PM  
I just read that Apple Maps uses TomTom/Teleatlas for their data, which explains quite a bit. When Google switched from Navteq to Tele Atlas for their map data, I nearly stopped using Google Maps altogether since their data was so terrible. Garmin/Navteq wasn't perfect, but it was certainly more respectable that their new provider. I think the best example which illustrates Tele Atlas' fail is that if you looked at their maps for Ottawa, ON it shows ZERO major arteries in its downtown core. All the roads would appear as local streets.

Fortunately Google smartened up and began to use the data they recorded with Street View as their base data, and canceled their contract with Tele Atlas. I don't know how long Apple's contract with Tele Atlas is, but it will likely not be renewed - if not canceled early.
 
2012-09-28 03:05:40 PM  

BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).


notthisshiatagain.jpg
 
2012-09-28 03:33:23 PM  

rjakobi: It got so bad that my boss ended up contacting the local eyewitness news to figure out why this kept happening. So in turn the news contacted the Mapquest folks and they learned that Mapquest was picking and choosing which GPS locations they could update. Something about buying certain local updates from some agency and skipping others because they were "too expensive". But you know who DID keep constantly updated through all this time? Google Maps. And everyone who used Google Maps in 2007 had no problem finding us.


Take the Android turn-by-turn... when you arrive at your destination, it shows you a picture and asks if this is your destination. You can just ignore it, or press yes or press no. And I'm sure that's for one reason - to check data quality. They know that if you give people a feedback form that very few people will do it, but lots of people will click a "no" if it's wrong. That raises an anomaly. What happens if people are constantly rerouting at a particular place, like not crossing a bridge that's on their route? Again, that's an anomaly worth investigating.

Then, there's the way business addresses get updated. They don't buy them, they just provide tools for businesses to do the job themselves. This works for both parties. The businesses keep their details up to date for customers, and Google get accurate data.

And you can bet that Google collected data about where their street view cars went. Their route tells them that there's a bridge they can go over? What happens if they can't? I guess someone clicks a button on a handheld device in the car, ticks a "road closed" and it's in their mapping database.

If I was running a business, I would be very reluctant to try to compete with Google in the "data" services they produce. It's like taking on Apple at pretty hardware.
 
2012-09-28 03:38:16 PM  

Theaetetus: I disagree... If someone gives you a street name and a number, you'd expect to be able to go to that number on the street and find your location, even if that block of the street had been renamed. For example, here in Boston, in the space of three blocks, route 9 is known as Huntington Ave., Boylston St., and Washington St. If someone told you to go to #45 Boylston St., you want to get to the right address, even if it happens to be #45 Washington St.

Apple's Maps is doing the right thing - it asks which one you meant:


Usually in my experience, Google Maps will pop up a "did you mean?" query for the situation you described. You're comparing apples and oranges anyway. In this particular case the section of street was renamed over 100 years ago, and isn't currently renamed.
 
2012-09-28 04:08:46 PM  

BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).


You know, in the last few days, you've done a very thorough job of pointing out well-researched benchmarks and graphs that give a fair look into the performance of the new iPhone vs. Android phones. Because of you, I will be picking up my iPhone 5 as soon as my local Sprint store has them in inventory. Thank you so much, because without you, I would not have been able to feel as good about my upcoming purchase. I don't know much about smartphones, and I've been in the market for my first (I know, I know, get with the times, lol). I'm really glad you were able to provide this information for me, as it would have taken a lot of my time and effort to do so myself. I simply do not have the time to walk into a store and fiddle around with each phone to see which I like best. You see, for me the speed of the phone and its benchmark performance is really the most important thing. Whether I enjoy the user interface or prefer one phone's experience to the other is completely irrelevant - benchmarks all the way. I usually enjoy customizing things to my liking, but I really think I'll enjoy having a home screen of static icons and folders. Because why? Hello - processing speed. I thought I would like having a bigger screen, but you've convinced me otherwise, especially now that I know the problem with the SIII's green levels (I really don't think I could get past that). I also thought it would be nice to have more than one option to purchase apps and music from, but that is heavily outweighed by the graphics processing power that I require to play Words With Friends.

So again, thank you for helping me make this difficult decision. I was wondering - I'm not sure if I would enjoy Coke or Pepsi more. Could you please post some graphs and benchmarks that would help me figure out which I would enjoy more? That would be awesome. And don't get me started on how frustrating it is to not know if you prefer sex with men or women - I just can't figure it out. Benchmarks please?
 
2012-09-28 04:26:39 PM  

BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).


I can't speak for other Android users, only myself obviously. But to me it's no longer about speed. I'm not going to argue that the iPhone renders a page a quarter of a second faster than my HTC, or that the apps open a few milliseconds earlier and maybe act slightly snappier. None of that matters any more, because I deem the speed of my HTC plenty acceptable. If I have a car that goes 120mph, and a new one comes out that goes 140mph, who the hell cares? 120mph is plenty fast for me.

To me, Android is better because of customization and features. Resizable widgets, SD card slot, universal chargers, no need to use iTunes for music, different size screens, ability to use third party apps as the default instead of the built-in app, and replaceable batteries are some of the things that matter to me. Not that the iPhone is faster(which it is) or a bit more durable (which is up for debate, and doesn't matter to me since I'm careful and I use an Otter Box).

Also, your linked article about phones not having Ice Cream Sandwich is no longer accurate, since it is dated August 2nd. August and September were huge months for the 4.0 upgrade.
 
2012-09-28 04:41:56 PM  
Google maps doesn't find my address, nor does the Navigon GPS app on my phone. It's apparently not in whatever database these companies share.
 
2012-09-28 04:51:33 PM  

wholedamnshow: None of that matters any more, because I deem the speed of my HTC plenty acceptable.


This. Also, it seems like until the iPhone 5, the refrain from Appley people was "No one cares about specs, they care about design/ecosystem". Now that the iPhone 5 might have an edge in specs, suddenly it's a big deal.

/Buy whatever damn phone you want, it's a bunch of a glass, plastic, and silicon you talk to people with and do internetty things on.
 
2012-09-28 04:52:29 PM  
Cnet Article: But as Apple Insider points out, there's no such address as 315 E. 15th Street in Manhattan. Instead, there's a park -- Stuyvesant Square -- there.

New York parks and recreation page.

"Stuyvesant Square: Rutherford Pl. To N D Perlman Pl., E 15 St. To E 17 St."

// Don't parks have street addresses?
 
2012-09-28 04:59:36 PM  

bingethinker: Google knows by now that the iHater cult will believe (and parrot) any anti-Apple propaganda they put out, no matter how lame or transparent.


Rub some aspercreme on that butthurt of yours. Apple doesn't have a lot of outright design fails, and everyone knows it, but this particular fail is pretty freakin' epic, and it stands out for precisely the reason that this isn't typical of Apple.

Every company has its whoopsies where they have to eat crow, including your beloved House of Jobs. Cope.
 
2012-09-28 05:34:15 PM  
Yeah but farking Paddington Station in London exists. Has done for a couple of hundred years in fact.

Should not have released in this state, admit the mistake and get on to fixing it.
 
2012-09-28 05:58:02 PM  

gaspode: Yeah but farking Paddington Station in London exists. Has done for a couple of hundred years in fact.

Should not have released in this state, admit the mistake and get on to fixing it.


They did. Today
 
2012-09-28 06:03:32 PM  

NutznGum: BullBearMS: I'm expecting there to be a multitude of lame ass excuses for this.

In just the past week, I've learned that people really like their cell phones to work slowly (once benchmarks showed the iPhone was twice as fast as the flagship Android devices) and that people don't even want to upgrade the OS on their phone (since not even 17% of Android users have managed to upgrade to a version of Android that came out a year ago).

We need you to post more graphs and crying baby pictures. That never gets old.


And lying by claiming Googles tells you to "walk on water" even when you already know it was suggesting taking a passenger ferry. And had "This route includes a ferry" at the top..
 
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