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(Buzzfeed)   Ten historical "facts" we think we know but actually don't   (buzzfeed.com) divider line 116
    More: Interesting, Colonial Williamsburg, Caligula, cohesiveness, Continental Congress, land areas, Quakers, literacy rates, Paul Revere  
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18443 clicks; posted to Geek » on 28 Sep 2012 at 5:03 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-28 12:14:02 AM
4. Signatures are a good way of gauging whether early modern English people were literate.

Just looking at a doctor's prescription signature should debunk that one.
 
2012-09-28 12:19:35 AM
Wait, women can vote?
 
2012-09-28 12:45:50 AM
No salting the earth?
 
2012-09-28 12:59:11 AM
Wow. I did not know that midget porn has been popular since the ancient Greek era.

I guess it is possible to learn something new..
 
2012-09-28 01:00:07 AM

impaler: No salting the earth?


Or that slaves built the pyramids, or a whole bunch of others. Seriously the list could be 50 items long and still miss a few big ones.
 
2012-09-28 01:15:31 AM
11. Sun rises in the east.
 
2012-09-28 01:29:49 AM
Ten historical "facts" we people ignorant about history think we they know but actually don't.

FTFY, subby.
 
2012-09-28 02:13:38 AM

WhyteRaven74: impaler: No salting the earth?

Or that slaves built the pyramids, or a whole bunch of others. Seriously the list could be 50 items long and still miss a few big ones.


C'mon, a well kept and provided for worker that has to build a pyramid is still a slave as long as the person paying him for it will be buried under it. Especially if they don't have an option for the job.
 
2012-09-28 03:00:46 AM

Lsherm: WhyteRaven74: impaler: No salting the earth?

Or that slaves built the pyramids, or a whole bunch of others. Seriously the list could be 50 items long and still miss a few big ones.

C'mon, a well kept and provided for worker that has to build a pyramid is still a slave as long as the person paying him for it will be buried under it. Especially if they don't have an option for the job.


Apparently recent archaeological digs have found a lot of communities of craftsman and builders who were having a good wages around the Pyramid. Some have suggested that creation of the pyramids were actually a community effort, either religious or a matter of Empire Pride.
 
2012-09-28 03:11:36 AM
Jesus was a white dude
 
2012-09-28 03:31:31 AM

Dead for Tax Reasons: Jesus was a white dude


You should see the Mormon Jesus. The portrait that is officially accepted by the LDS Church looks like Jesus has been surfing all summer and that's why he has blond hilights.
 
2012-09-28 03:33:37 AM
11) The Boston Tea Party was about high taxes
 
2012-09-28 04:00:19 AM

ShawnDoc: 11) The Boston Tea Party was about high taxes


11A) The TEA Party is about high taxes.
 
2012-09-28 05:10:29 AM
FTA:Hint hint, fantasy writers. Eventually, use of the singular informal became synonymous with insult; only a few groups of people, like Quakers, continued to use it for religious or literary purposes.


Well. Quakers, and fantasy writers, right? I mean, unless you are just annoyed by something you are making up. Apparently, this usage is NOT dead. It just bugs you.
 
2012-09-28 05:20:45 AM
I like misconception articles, but this one seemed mostly to be saying "its a misconception because I said it was" (Ie.. people werent shorter that much shorter in the past and its just in our head that the beds were smaller) I googled, no supporting data for this statement seems to exist.

Of course, I didnt look at every result on the internet, so he MIGHT have a point. it would be nice if he shared why he thougt that though. I am intrigued..

/ and there has to be penis joke in there about french feet being bigger than british feet, but im not touching it with a 10 french foot pole.
 
2012-09-28 05:31:42 AM
~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.
 
2012-09-28 05:36:15 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: Dead for Tax Reasons: Jesus was a white dude

You should see the Mormon Jesus. The portrait that is officially accepted by the LDS Church looks like Jesus has been surfing all summer and that's why he has blond hilights.


LDS Jesus: 'Well Stu I'll tell you, surfing's not a sport, it's a way of life, it's no hobby. It's a way of looking at that wave and saying, "Hey bud, let's party!' 

/nuthin' i got
 
2012-09-28 05:38:53 AM

I sound fat: people werent shorter that much shorter in the past


Well, actually it is common for people to assume people in the past were shorter than we are. Of course, that's partly true, they were. The average height for an American man 200 years ago was shorter than it is now. In his day Thomas Jefferson at 6'2" was far more unusual than a man of the same height is today. Now where you get into misconceptions is how much shorter people were. If you look at the old beds, you'd figure people were quite a bit shorter than they actually were. This based on assuming they'd like as much extra length in a bed as we do, and also that they slept as we do. Neither of which was necessarily the case. Also people who visit Europe and see the old buildings, and I'm talking 400 or more years, will see the doorways are a lot smaller than doorways are now. Now the size of the doorways was less of a problem for Europeans back then because they were smaller, but not so small they could fit through a 5' tall door without ducking down. What people often miss, is that if you look in through the windows, you'll notice the ceiling isn't much if any lower than it is in a modern place. Reason for the small doorway is that in winter it would help keep your place warm. This particularly being the case for those places where there were no door jams and in order for the door to swing open easily you had to have a little bit of a gap between the door and the stone floor/front step. In winter cold air would just flow in through that gap at the bottom. And also as there were gaps along the sides and top, hot air would flow out. And even in places with door jams, the fit of the doors wasn't what we're used to, and as anyone who has lived in a house with an older door with no weather stripping can attest even recently built houses can have lot of cold air get through the front door.
 
2012-09-28 05:39:39 AM

I sound fat: I like misconception articles, but this one seemed mostly to be saying "its a misconception because I said it was" (Ie.. people werent shorter that much shorter in the past and its just in our head that the beds were smaller) I googled, no supporting data for this statement seems to exist.

Of course, I didnt look at every result on the internet, so he MIGHT have a point. it would be nice if he shared why he thougt that though. I am intrigued..

/ and there has to be penis joke in there about french feet being bigger than british feet, but im not touching it with a 10 french foot pole.


i too was expecting to see some stats about skeletons from the era, but no. no bones. i would like to have seen more about this. people may have been tall in the day due to clean air, water, plenty of exercise and unprocessed whole foods. or they may have been shorter because their diets were limited to pretty much what was available locally, and may have been slight malnourished because of it.
 
2012-09-28 06:07:15 AM

KrispyKritter: I sound fat: I like misconception articles, but this one seemed mostly to be saying "its a misconception because I said it was" (Ie.. people werent shorter that much shorter in the past and its just in our head that the beds were smaller) I googled, no supporting data for this statement seems to exist.

Of course, I didnt look at every result on the internet, so he MIGHT have a point. it would be nice if he shared why he thougt that though. I am intrigued..

/ and there has to be penis joke in there about french feet being bigger than british feet, but im not touching it with a 10 french foot pole.

i too was expecting to see some stats about skeletons from the era, but no. no bones. i would like to have seen more about this. people may have been tall in the day due to clean air, water, plenty of exercise and unprocessed whole foods. or they may have been shorter because their diets were limited to pretty much what was available locally, and may have been slight malnourished because of it.


There's no reason for the wealthy or even the middle classes to have been malnourished at most points in history. Hell, most Native Americans were living on about 2500 calories a day when Columbus landed.

Now, if you were a European/Asian peasant, you were probably screwed nutrition-wise. But anyone who wasn't at the bottom of a feudal totem pole was probably as tall and as healthy (barring plagues, death in infancy, and accidents) as people are today.
 
2012-09-28 06:07:25 AM
9/11?
 
2012-09-28 06:08:45 AM

WhyteRaven74: impaler: No salting the earth?

Or that slaves built the pyramids, or a whole bunch of others. Seriously the list could be 50 items long and still miss a few big ones.


Yup. The pyramids were built by paid laborers, and there were extensive medical facilities for the workers to be treated at in the event of an accident. If the worker could be repaired and sent back to work, so much the better.

I think it even says that in the Jewish version of the old testament, where it also says that the Jews were not, in fact, enslaved by Egypt. They were originally an elite fighting force on the borders of egypt, but the Egyptian Pharaoh got nervous over their ability and forced them to become laborers in construction in temples or some such projects. After which the Israelites said "fark this" and left.
 
2012-09-28 06:11:40 AM

KrispyKritter: they may have been shorter because their diets were limited to pretty much what was available locally,


People were shorter due to that for a long time. And indeed increase in height owing to improved nutrition is something that has been witnessed in several parts of the world just over the last several decades. As for how much shorter people were? Well, it comes down to where and when you want to look. Two hundred years ago the average American man was somewhere between 5'6" and 5'7". At the same time, the average Englishman was actually a touch taller, keep in mind you had a lot of French and others in the US and they were shorter on average than the English so they'd bring down the average for all American men. Now if you want to look at heights across Europe, it does depend on when and where and averages of ethnic groups can be a bit deceiving as there could be pretty wide disparities between people from different regions and even within one region owing to whether or not they lived in a city, a small town or some peasant village. All of those things could, and did, effect things like the quality and variety of food available, the diseases one was exposed to and other things. One thing that influenced the increase in the heights of Americans was the mixing together of people from all over the place. A tall man of German background could marry a woman of English background, who while not tall by English standards, would be tall by the standards of wherever the German's background was from. And so they may end up having kids that are taller than if the German had married someone of the same background. Mind you this won't push the average height up very much very fast but over time, it will nudge things upwards.

As for the effect of nutrition and living conditions on height, an good example is North and South Korea. As far as genetics goes, a Korean is a Korean, so as far as genetics are concerned both populations have the same potential to grow. In South Korea the average man is about 5'8 1/2" and the average woman is about 5' 3 1/2", in North Korea the average man is about 5'5" and the average woman about 5' 1".

And as for how heights have changed, this picture is from 1900 and each man is within the expected height range for his place of origin, going left to right, Great Britain, United States, Australia, India, Germany, France, Austro-Hungary, Italy and Japan. If you were to take an equivalent picture now of men who are average or near average, the variation between tallest and shortest would be much smaller and also the ordering from tallest to shorter would be different. Though with the Indian you'd have to find one from the same region as the one in the picture as average heights across India vary quite a lot even today.

upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-09-28 06:23:08 AM

Smoking GNU: I think it even says that in the Jewish version of the old testament, where it also says that the Jews were not, in fact, enslaved by Egypt


Well there's that, and also the Bible mentions them having weapons. Egyptian slaves did not have weapons. They also did not have their own towns to live and work in. But as for the pyramids and other large structures, they're built with a level of precision and craft that only someone, well lots of someones, with the proper training could manage. Oh sure any group of men could be made to drag a stone, but actually cutting it and smoothing it out so the corners are a nice 90 degrees and consistent stone after stone? That takes a fair amount of skill and knowledge. And then there's all the carving of stones at temples and making round columns and so on. Working in construction drew a lot of men to it, and once they had the training, then what? Well build more big stuff. Which in turn draws in more men, so you have this supply generation after generation of men who can build whatever you want as big as you want, and also quite quickly it should be noted given the level of technology they had. And of course if you're the pharaoh, treating the people you depend on so everyone can see how awesomely fantastic you are badly would not work well. If you want a temple to some god or other and you wanted it now, well going to have to make sure everyone is very well fed, well looked after and well paid. You can tell a soldier to suck it up if his rations for a few days are a bit measly, good luck telling a stone mason that.
 
2012-09-28 06:34:25 AM
11). Buzzfeed is worth reading.
 
2012-09-28 06:52:05 AM
12) Howard Zinn couldn't bench shiat.
 
2012-09-28 07:01:23 AM
That was interesting. I know every other farker knew that already, but I didn't.
 
2012-09-28 07:12:22 AM
"we"?
 
2012-09-28 07:20:41 AM

WhyteRaven74: Oh sure any group of men could be made to drag a stone, but actually cutting it and smoothing it out so the corners are a nice 90 degrees and consistent stone after stone? That takes a fair amount of skill and knowledge.


Eh, on the other hand, it's not particularly unheard of to have a group of slaves who were treated somewhat better than the rest of the slaves and given extra training and treatment, due to factors like their inherent display of skill/knowledge or maybe who their parents were or, for example in the case of American slaves, if their skin color was perhaps leaning towards favorable to their captors. So you take this smaller group, feed them well and give them education and a better position both literally and figuratively than their peers and voila, they'll pump out specialized craft for you. And then you have the added benefit of the imposed slave hierarchy breeding inter-resentment and strife amongst the servile population and further inhibiting the chance of a full-on cohesive rebellion.
 
2012-09-28 07:31:31 AM

DigitalCoffee: ~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.


It actually did, but they were only English feet
 
2012-09-28 07:32:39 AM
"The notion that Revere cried out "The British are coming!" is historically false, and perpetuates anachronistic beliefs about the coherence of American identity. Depositions given by Revere suggest that he used the term "regulars" to refer to the troops headed toward Lexington, Massachusetts."

Umm, Paul Revere didn't cry out shiat. First of all, it was a covert operation; no one was yelling anything out, since at that point 20 percent of the local population was British. Revere was one of about 40 riders that night; he was one of three who were found by British troops chilling at a pub, and the only one of those three who didn't manage to escape (he gave up without a fight).

Of all the men involved in the ride, Revere was the biggest pussy out of all of them. The only reason anyone associates him with the ride is because Longfellow needed a name that was easy to rhyme.

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/history-33.htm
http://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2008/06/27/rewriting-the - legend-of-paul-revere
 
2012-09-28 07:40:06 AM

PDXBishop: "The notion that Revere cried out "The British are coming!" is historically false, and perpetuates anachronistic beliefs about the coherence of American identity. Depositions given by Revere suggest that he used the term "regulars" to refer to the troops headed toward Lexington, Massachusetts."

Umm, Paul Revere didn't cry out shiat. First of all, it was a covert operation; no one was yelling anything out, since at that point 20 percent of the local population was British. Revere was one of about 40 riders that night; he was one of three who were found by British troops chilling at a pub, and the only one of those three who didn't manage to escape (he gave up without a fight).

Of all the men involved in the ride, Revere was the biggest pussy out of all of them. The only reason anyone associates him with the ride is because Longfellow needed a name that was easy to rhyme


He is also a Fark Legend because, on a night that would become synonymous with an urgent call to arms and a seminal moment in American history, he stopped for a beer.
 
2012-09-28 07:40:43 AM

wyltoknow: WhyteRaven74: Oh sure any group of men could be made to drag a stone, but actually cutting it and smoothing it out so the corners are a nice 90 degrees and consistent stone after stone? That takes a fair amount of skill and knowledge.

Eh, on the other hand, it's not particularly unheard of to have a group of slaves who were treated somewhat better than the rest of the slaves and given extra training and treatment, due to factors like their inherent display of skill/knowledge or maybe who their parents were or, for example in the case of American slaves, if their skin color was perhaps leaning towards favorable to their captors. So you take this smaller group, feed them well and give them education and a better position both literally and figuratively than their peers and voila, they'll pump out specialized craft for you. And then you have the added benefit of the imposed slave hierarchy breeding inter-resentment and strife amongst the servile population and further inhibiting the chance of a full-on cohesive rebellion.


Indeed. The Mameluks of later Egypt were officially slaves and they were also the elite and the rulers of the country. Not all slavery systems were the same and I think most Americans still look at it through the prism of our history. As for all the mentions of salting the fields, where is the dispute of that occurring? I'd be interested to read that.
 
2012-09-28 07:42:12 AM

PDXBishop: Umm, Paul Revere didn't cry out shiat. First of all, it was a covert operation


Then why was he ringing bells and firing warning shots?

www.theblaze.com
 
2012-09-28 07:46:36 AM

PDXBishop:
Of all the men involved in the ride, Revere was the biggest pussy out of all of them. The only reason anyone associates him with the ride is because Longfellow needed a name that was easy to rhyme.



He was the A-Rod of the Sons of Liberty?

/we've secretly swiched the Sons of Liberty with the Sons of Anarchy
//let's see how the American Revolution would have played out
 
2012-09-28 08:02:10 AM
That would be a prime point to mention the whole "People thought the world was flat before Columbus!" thing

Which wasn't true. They'd known since the greeks the world was round (Hell, the Greeks figured it out by lunar eclipses! "Huh. The shadow we cast on the moon is round, so.. OH HOLY CRAP, THIS IS A SPHERE!"), and the Greek calculation of the circumfrence of the earth was remarkably close to accurate.

If I recall correctly, Columbus basically went "Nah, those greek dudes are wrong. The earth is totes smaller, and I can totally reach India if I sail west!". Thus, the reason people wouldn't fund him was less "You'll fall off the edge of the earth!" And more "Nnnnooo, you're just going to die out in the open ocean, and I'd really rather not waste my money, kthxbye." And had America not been in the way, they'd probably have been right...
 
2012-09-28 08:11:18 AM

Felgraf: That would be a prime point to mention the whole "People thought the world was flat before Columbus!" thing

Which wasn't true. They'd known since the greeks the world was round (Hell, the Greeks figured it out by lunar eclipses! "Huh. The shadow we cast on the moon is round, so.. OH HOLY CRAP, THIS IS A SPHERE!"), and the Greek calculation of the circumfrence of the earth was remarkably close to accurate.

If I recall correctly, Columbus basically went "Nah, those greek dudes are wrong. The earth is totes smaller, and I can totally reach India if I sail west!". Thus, the reason people wouldn't fund him was less "You'll fall off the edge of the earth!" And more "Nnnnooo, you're just going to die out in the open ocean, and I'd really rather not waste my money, kthxbye." And had America not been in the way, they'd probably have been right...


Indeed but the way it has entered popular consciousness makes a better story for some. I like the idea of trying to prove the Greek measurement wrong when, in fact, Eratosthenes was quite close.
 
2012-09-28 08:16:39 AM
RTFA expecting Columbus saying/proving the world was round, left disappointed
 
2012-09-28 08:24:04 AM

DigitalCoffee: ~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.


I'm pretty sure Noah's Ark was not meant to be taken literally.
 
2012-09-28 08:27:48 AM
Slaves did not build the pyramids...

si0.twimg.com
 
2012-09-28 08:31:52 AM

fusillade762: 4. Signatures are a good way of gauging whether early modern English people were literate.

Just looking at a doctor's prescription signature should debunk that one.


Cocaine Shakes
 
2012-09-28 08:46:37 AM
The Amendment granting women the right to vote was passed during the administration of our first woman president, Edith Wilson. Her husband, President Woodrow Wilson, had been almost completely incapacitated by a stroke. Edith and the White House staff hid this fact from the public, and Edith took over the duties of president.
 
2012-09-28 09:00:38 AM

PDXBishop: since at that point 20 percent of the local population was British


Well; nearly *all* of the Colonials (I'm excluding Native Americans, free blacks, and slaves from the count) were British-- at this point in time; they still considered themselves part of the British empire. It wasn't until later that both sides realized that reconcilliation wasn't an option.
 
2012-09-28 09:04:08 AM
The reason for the delay in getting the Declaration of Independence out was everyone took off for the long 4th of July holiday weekend. Duh!
 
2012-09-28 09:05:18 AM
WhyteRaven74:


Great picture, though I think a little bit of imperial stage managing is going on there. The British guy, although clearly superior to any foreigner in any regard by simple virtue of being British, is only slightly taller on account of his hat, and that he's a fraction of a pace closer to the camera.
 
2012-09-28 09:05:40 AM
Evolution, lol.
 
2012-09-28 09:06:21 AM

Darth_Lukecash: Lsherm: WhyteRaven74: impaler: No salting the earth?

Or that slaves built the pyramids, or a whole bunch of others. Seriously the list could be 50 items long and still miss a few big ones.

C'mon, a well kept and provided for worker that has to build a pyramid is still a slave as long as the person paying him for it will be buried under it. Especially if they don't have an option for the job.

Apparently recent archaeological digs have found a lot of communities of craftsman and builders who were having a good wages around the Pyramid. Some have suggested that creation of the pyramids were actually a community effort, either religious or a matter of Empire Pride.


Impossible. Government can't create jobs!

/sorry... It was so low hanging fruit.
 
2012-09-28 09:08:05 AM

jjwars1: DigitalCoffee: ~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.

I'm pretty sure Noah's Ark was not meant to be taken literally.


It makes more sense as a sci-fi sotry anyway with the ark being a UFO.

In any case, it not the only literary reference to such a story: The Epic of Gilgamesh parallels much of the early concepts found in Genesis.
 
2012-09-28 09:14:53 AM

andrewagill: PDXBishop: Umm, Paul Revere didn't cry out shiat. First of all, it was a covert operation

Then why was he ringing bells and firing warning shots?


To tell the British that they can't take our guns because Second Amendment.
 
2012-09-28 09:17:01 AM

Speaker2Animals: Ten historical "facts" we people ignorant about history think we they know but actually don't.

FTFY, subby.


Fine, but that's most people. Be fair here, okay? A lot of people don't even know the things that are false on this short list. Hell, most people can't even name their own elected reps.
 
2012-09-28 09:18:28 AM

Lsherm: WhyteRaven74: impaler: No salting the earth?

Or that slaves built the pyramids, or a whole bunch of others. Seriously the list could be 50 items long and still miss a few big ones.

C'mon, a well kept and provided for worker that has to build a pyramid is still a slave as long as the person paying him for it will be buried under it. Especially if they don't have an option for the job.


Am article here over a year ago offered evidence that the pyramids of Egypt weren't just built by paid labourers, but *unionised* workers. That's getting pretty far from anything like slavery.
 
2012-09-28 09:22:31 AM

ecmoRandomNumbers: You should see the Mormon Jesus. The portrait that is officially accepted by the LDS Church looks like Jesus has been surfing all summer and that's why he has blond hilights.


images2.wikia.nocookie.net
What a surfing Jesus may look like.

/I got my eye on you...
 
2012-09-28 09:23:35 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Hell, most people can't even name their own elected reps.


The conversation between Cheech and the officer at ~1:10 

It also serves as a public service video to help Latio-Americans citizens avoid arrest in Arizona and how to navigate back home if they do get wrongly deported.
 
2012-09-28 09:25:39 AM

Dead for Tax Reasons: Jesus was a white dude


Well, he absolutely was a Caucasian. Of course, there are some people who think that certain Caucasians aren't quite "white" enough to be called "white".
 
2012-09-28 09:27:16 AM
The confederacy wasn't antisemitic. Thats probably my fav as it shut up my gov/law professor who was trying talk about how the south probably still doesn't like jews (he was talking out his ass).

Thats why there wasn't a cross on their flag, they didn't want exclude the jewish faith.
 
2012-09-28 09:27:25 AM

KrispyKritter: I sound fat: I like misconception articles, but this one seemed mostly to be saying "its a misconception because I said it was" (Ie.. people werent shorter that much shorter in the past and its just in our head that the beds were smaller) I googled, no supporting data for this statement seems to exist.

Of course, I didnt look at every result on the internet, so he MIGHT have a point. it would be nice if he shared why he thougt that though. I am intrigued..

/ and there has to be penis joke in there about french feet being bigger than british feet, but im not touching it with a 10 french foot pole.

i too was expecting to see some stats about skeletons from the era, but no. no bones. i would like to have seen more about this. people may have been tall in the day due to clean air, water, plenty of exercise and unprocessed whole foods. or they may have been shorter because their diets were limited to pretty much what was available locally, and may have been slight malnourished because of it.


Quick question for you: is the air and water in the US more polluted today or was it more polluted in the 1970s?
 
2012-09-28 09:27:45 AM
I thought the legend went that Paul Revere shouted, "The Redcoats are coming"?

/just me and my horsey and a quart of beer
 
2012-09-28 09:27:57 AM

wyltoknow: WhyteRaven74: Oh sure any group of men could be made to drag a stone, but actually cutting it and smoothing it out so the corners are a nice 90 degrees and consistent stone after stone? That takes a fair amount of skill and knowledge.

Eh, on the other hand, it's not particularly unheard of to have a group of slaves who were treated somewhat better than the rest of the slaves and given extra training and treatment, due to factors like their inherent display of skill/knowledge or maybe who their parents were or, for example in the case of American slaves, if their skin color was perhaps leaning towards favorable to their captors. So you take this smaller group, feed them well and give them education and a better position both literally and figuratively than their peers and voila, they'll pump out specialized craft for you. And then you have the added benefit of the imposed slave hierarchy breeding inter-resentment and strife amongst the servile population and further inhibiting the chance of a full-on cohesive rebellion.


At its height, Ancient Egypt was easily the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, and likely the world's first true superpower. Having mastered agriculture and irrigation to an unprecedented degree, they were likely the first country in the world with essentially unlimited resources of the kind they needed to thrive and grow. That afforded them the largesse to do things like dedicate whole sectors of their economy to building huge beautiful things.
 
2012-09-28 09:33:55 AM

nmemkha: jjwars1: DigitalCoffee: ~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.

I'm pretty sure Noah's Ark was not meant to be taken literally.

It makes more sense as a sci-fi sotry anyway with the ark being a UFO.

In any case, it not the only literary reference to such a story: The Epic of Gilgamesh parallels much of the early concepts found in Genesis.


Not only that, the story of Noah was a well-known story of a real Babylonian merchant who was stuck on a raft with his sons and livestock (to be sold) on a flooding river.
 
2012-09-28 09:36:56 AM

thecpt: The confederacy wasn't antisemitic. Thats probably my fav as it shut up my gov/law professor who was trying talk about how the south probably still doesn't like jews (he was talking out his ass).

Thats why there wasn't a cross on their flag, they didn't want exclude the jewish faith.


The Confederacy wasn't SPECIFICALLY anti-Semitic. The times, though, were.

// generally speaking
// TJ was pretty cool with Jews, the KKK was not
// these are two data points - go and learn
 
2012-09-28 09:38:41 AM

nmemkha: jjwars1: DigitalCoffee: ~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.

I'm pretty sure Noah's Ark was not meant to be taken literally.

It makes more sense as a sci-fi sotry anyway with the ark being a UFO.

In any case, it not the only literary reference to such a story: The Epic of Gilgamesh parallels much of the early concepts found in Genesis.


There are quite a few flood stories throughout the world. Anthropologists think that this probably comes from the fact that early agriculture happened in flood plains and floods were a regular part of the yearly cycle. It would be normal for a story to come about with the flood being the work of God sweeping away the evil people. After all, the people who told the story were the ones who survived and must be favored by the gods.

My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.
 
2012-09-28 09:46:29 AM

Lucky LaRue: Wow. I did not know that midget porn has been popular since the ancient Greek era.

I guess it is possible to learn something new..


You joke, but it's true. The Romans had lady midget gladiators. Their dinner parties were basically Borderlands.
 
2012-09-28 09:50:52 AM

Felgraf: That would be a prime point to mention the whole "People thought the world was flat before Columbus!" thing

Which wasn't true. They'd known since the greeks the world was round (Hell, the Greeks figured it out by lunar eclipses! "Huh. The shadow we cast on the moon is round, so.. OH HOLY CRAP, THIS IS A SPHERE!"), and the Greek calculation of the circumfrence of the earth was remarkably close to accurate.

If I recall correctly, Columbus basically went "Nah, those greek dudes are wrong. The earth is totes smaller, and I can totally reach India if I sail west!". Thus, the reason people wouldn't fund him was less "You'll fall off the edge of the earth!" And more "Nnnnooo, you're just going to die out in the open ocean, and I'd really rather not waste my money, kthxbye." And had America not been in the way, they'd probably have been right...


Very true. They did think the planets were perfect spheres, with the Earth at the centre of the universe, but ever since we've seen ships coming over the horizon, we've known about the curvature of the Earth.
 
2012-09-28 09:51:55 AM

Dr Dreidel: thecpt: The confederacy wasn't antisemitic. Thats probably my fav as it shut up my gov/law professor who was trying talk about how the south probably still doesn't like jews (he was talking out his ass).

Thats why there wasn't a cross on their flag, they didn't want exclude the jewish faith.

The Confederacy wasn't SPECIFICALLY anti-Semitic. The times, though, were.

// generally speaking
// TJ was pretty cool with Jews, the KKK was not
// these are two data points - go and learn


upload.wikimedia.org

The Secretary of State of the Confederacy, Judah Benjamin, was the first Jewish Cabinet member in North America. I think the anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic thing became a big deal during Reconstruction, but I can't remember why I think that.
 
2012-09-28 09:57:17 AM

Dr Dreidel: The Confederacy wasn't SPECIFICALLY anti-Semitic. The times, though, were.

// generally speaking
// TJ was pretty cool with Jews, the KKK was not
// these are two data points - go and learn


Trying to learn more history (as always) Link
Link

This is from a quick google search (both are interesting reads). There seems to be several books on the subject too.
Of course the times were xenophobic. Don't tell me to "go and learn." Kind of dickish. Just saying.
 
2012-09-28 10:01:43 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Am article here over a year ago offered evidence that the pyramids of Egypt weren't just built by paid labourers, but *unionised* workers. That's getting pretty far from anything like slavery


Wouldnt being unionized be going around the scale and bring them back to slavery?
 
2012-09-28 10:03:25 AM

imontheinternet: Dr Dreidel: thecpt: The confederacy wasn't antisemitic. Thats probably my fav as it shut up my gov/law professor who was trying talk about how the south probably still doesn't like jews (he was talking out his ass).

Thats why there wasn't a cross on their flag, they didn't want exclude the jewish faith.

The Confederacy wasn't SPECIFICALLY anti-Semitic. The times, though, were.

// generally speaking
// TJ was pretty cool with Jews, the KKK was not
// these are two data points - go and learn

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x270]

The Secretary of State of the Confederacy, Judah Benjamin, was the first Jewish Cabinet member in North America. I think the anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic thing became a big deal during Reconstruction, but I can't remember why I think that.


Because I brain-farted and the KKK wasn't formed until Reconstruction?

Regardless, what I'm saying is that there was lots of rampant anti-Semitism around - passion plays were still a thing (more in Europe than the US, owing to their higher number of Catholics), guys like Judah Benjamin were notable as exceptions (i.e. represented below their percentage of the population - contrasted to now, when we're overrepresented relative to population), Jews could be openly discriminated against (but they weren't alone), and there was (and still is, and existed long before there was an America) a pervasive attitude that Jews weren't and couldn't ever be Real Americans.
 
2012-09-28 10:05:05 AM
Seriously though, my day could have been much better if I hadn't seen that thumbnail for the butt-chugging article on the sidebar...
 
2012-09-28 10:05:19 AM

thecpt: Don't tell me to "go and learn." Kind of dickish. Just saying.


A play on Hillel's answer to the guy who wanted Hillel to teach him the Torah while he stood on one foot. Hillel responded: "That which is distasteful to you, do not do to your neighbor. The rest is extrapolation - go and learn."

// wasn't trying to be a dick
// got caught in the dick-crossfire
 
2012-09-28 10:16:13 AM

Dr Dreidel: A play on Hillel's answer to the guy who wanted Hillel to teach him the Torah while he stood on one foot. Hillel responded: "That which is distasteful to you, do not do to your neighbor. The rest is extrapolation - go and learn."

// wasn't trying to be a dick
// got caught in the dick-crossfire


alright. we cool.
 
2012-09-28 10:31:18 AM

Dr Dreidel: // wasn't trying to be a dick
// got caught in the dick-crossfire


I think I have that DVD.
 
2012-09-28 10:56:00 AM

QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.


I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.
 
2012-09-28 11:20:35 AM

Smoking GNU: I think it even says that in the Jewish version of the old testament, where it also says that the Jews were not, in fact, enslaved by Egypt.


The word "slave" as used in both the Old Testament and the New Testament has a very different meaning than what we think of. When Jesus talks about slaves serving their masters, he's not referring to property bought from boat freshly ported from Africa. It meant something else entirely and would have been heard completely differently than the way we read it today.
 
2012-09-28 11:27:10 AM

jonny_q: The word "slave" as used in both the Old Testament and the New Testament has a very different meaning than what we think of. When Jesus talks about slaves serving their masters, he's not referring to property bought from boat freshly ported from Africa. It meant something else entirely and would have been heard completely differently than the way we read it today.


I don't think that's true as Bo Burnham pointed out
 
2012-09-28 11:28:25 AM

brianbankerus: Wait, women can vote?


Yes and they suffer for it. I'm all for ending women's suffrage, haven't they suffered enough?
 
2012-09-28 11:31:49 AM

meanmutton: KrispyKritter: I sound fat: I like misconception articles, but this one seemed mostly to be saying "its a misconception because I said it was" (Ie.. people werent shorter that much shorter in the past and its just in our head that the beds were smaller) I googled, no supporting data for this statement seems to exist.

Of course, I didnt look at every result on the internet, so he MIGHT have a point. it would be nice if he shared why he thougt that though. I am intrigued..

/ and there has to be penis joke in there about french feet being bigger than british feet, but im not touching it with a 10 french foot pole.

i too was expecting to see some stats about skeletons from the era, but no. no bones. i would like to have seen more about this. people may have been tall in the day due to clean air, water, plenty of exercise and unprocessed whole foods. or they may have been shorter because their diets were limited to pretty much what was available locally, and may have been slight malnourished because of it.

Quick question for you: is the air and water in the US more polluted today or was it more polluted in the 1970s?


1970's. At least around here. In the 70's there were two problems in the area I'm living in. The first being on a good day you could barely see 3 feet in front of you the pollution from the three steel mills around town was so bad. The second being that houses occasionally randomly blew the fark up, because the local refinery was dumping petroleum waste into the ground water and it occasionally seeped into houses and pooled in basements.

Tell me again how regulation is bad and the EPA needs to go, because I will call you a lair, a fool, and scum bag corporate pig dog.
 
2012-09-28 11:32:38 AM

Saiga410: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Am article here over a year ago offered evidence that the pyramids of Egypt weren't just built by paid labourers, but *unionised* workers. That's getting pretty far from anything like slavery

Wouldnt being unionized be going around the scale and bring them back to slavery?


Spoken like a true moron.
 
2012-09-28 11:40:28 AM

nmemkha: QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.


I've read that they think this may have happened to the black sea. There's evidence that the black sea was once a freshwater lake that was lower than sea level,

Ah, found it.

Combining the two ideas (regular floods in floodvalleys and one large superflood) as the origin of the flood myth seems to me the most likely scenario.
 
2012-09-28 11:41:36 AM

meanmutton: Quick question for you: is the air and water in the US more polluted today or was it more polluted in the 1970s?


Well, I don't think any rivers in Ohio have *caught fire* recently, so...
 
2012-09-28 11:43:12 AM

WhyteRaven74: KrispyKritter:People in the past were shorter.


BTW,you listed Australia and Great Britian. During the Boxer Rebellion, Australia was in negotiations for a final independence resolution, and while they did send troops, are not present in the photograph. The guy to the American's (at least what I assume is the American) right is actually Russian.

upload.wikimedia.org

Russian Troops in Beijing shortly after the crisis. The Boxer Rebellion would actually be a lead up to the Russo-Japanese war, as the Russians continued to occupy Manchuria well after the end of the rebellion.
 
2012-09-28 11:51:19 AM

mutterfark: ecmoRandomNumbers: Dead for Tax Reasons: Jesus was a white dude

You should see the Mormon Jesus. The portrait that is officially accepted by the LDS Church looks like Jesus has been surfing all summer and that's why he has blond hilights.

LDS Jesus: 'Well Stu I'll tell you, surfing's not a sport, it's a way of life, it's no hobby. It's a way of looking at that wave and saying, "Hey bud, let's party!' 

/nuthin' i got


"Bra! Don't worry about tomorrow ,man! Tomorrow will totally bring its own bogusness. Today's bummer is enough for today, dude." (Matthew 6:34)

thefamily.com
 
2012-09-28 12:34:45 PM
I really wanted to check out the "Gods in Color" exhibit of reconstructed painted statues. Never got there, sadly.
 
2012-09-28 12:36:22 PM

Dr Dreidel: thecpt: The confederacy wasn't antisemitic. Thats probably my fav as it shut up my gov/law professor who was trying talk about how the south probably still doesn't like jews (he was talking out his ass).

Thats why there wasn't a cross on their flag, they didn't want exclude the jewish faith.

The Confederacy wasn't SPECIFICALLY anti-Semitic. The times, though, were.

// generally speaking
// TJ was pretty cool with Jews, the KKK was not
// these are two data points - go and learn


Judah P. Benjamin agrees.
 
2012-09-28 12:37:50 PM

imontheinternet: Dr Dreidel: thecpt: The confederacy wasn't antisemitic. Thats probably my fav as it shut up my gov/law professor who was trying talk about how the south probably still doesn't like jews (he was talking out his ass).

Thats why there wasn't a cross on their flag, they didn't want exclude the jewish faith.

The Confederacy wasn't SPECIFICALLY anti-Semitic. The times, though, were.

// generally speaking
// TJ was pretty cool with Jews, the KKK was not
// these are two data points - go and learn

[upload.wikimedia.org image 220x270]

The Secretary of State of the Confederacy, Judah Benjamin, was the first Jewish Cabinet member in North America. I think the anti-Jewish, anti-Catholic thing became a big deal during Reconstruction, but I can't remember why I think that.


Crap. I really do need to read the entire thread befor I start posting.
 
2012-09-28 12:42:14 PM

Felgraf: meanmutton: Quick question for you: is the air and water in the US more polluted today or was it more polluted in the 1970s?

Well, I don't think any rivers in Ohio have *caught fire* recently, so...


And was it more polluted in the 1950s than it was in the 1970s? My father, who graduated high school in 1955, told me that when he was a boy snow was only white for the first couple of hours after it fell. After that, it turned gray from all the coal soot in the air, and this is in a town of about 600 people.
 
2012-09-28 12:54:27 PM
13. Custer died at the Little Bighorn

/supposing he didn't
 
2012-09-28 01:32:30 PM
collider.com

Han did shot first.
 
2012-09-28 01:32:31 PM

WhyteRaven74: Smoking GNU: I think it even says that in the Jewish version of the old testament, where it also says that the Jews were not, in fact, enslaved by Egypt

Well there's that, and also the Bible mentions them having weapons. Egyptian slaves did not have weapons. They also did not have their own towns to live and work in. But as for the pyramids and other large structures, they're built with a level of precision and craft that only someone, well lots of someones, with the proper training could manage. Oh sure any group of men could be made to drag a stone, but actually cutting it and smoothing it out so the corners are a nice 90 degrees and consistent stone after stone? That takes a fair amount of skill and knowledge. And then there's all the carving of stones at temples and making round columns and so on. Working in construction drew a lot of men to it, and once they had the training, then what? Well build more big stuff. Which in turn draws in more men, so you have this supply generation after generation of men who can build whatever you want as big as you want, and also quite quickly it should be noted given the level of technology they had. And of course if you're the pharaoh, treating the people you depend on so everyone can see how awesomely fantastic you are badly would not work well. If you want a temple to some god or other and you wanted it now, well going to have to make sure everyone is very well fed, well looked after and well paid. You can tell a soldier to suck it up if his rations for a few days are a bit measly, good luck telling a stone mason that.


urbanbeerhunt.com
Beats working in the fields.
 
2012-09-28 02:55:31 PM

nmemkha: QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.


The English, she is hard.
 
2012-09-28 03:00:43 PM

give me doughnuts: Felgraf: meanmutton: Quick question for you: is the air and water in the US more polluted today or was it more polluted in the 1970s?

Well, I don't think any rivers in Ohio have *caught fire* recently, so...

And was it more polluted in the 1950s than it was in the 1970s? My father, who graduated high school in 1955, told me that when he was a boy snow was only white for the first couple of hours after it fell. After that, it turned gray from all the coal soot in the air, and this is in a town of about 600 people.


Yes. The Cuyahoga River has caught fire at least thirteen times, all of them between 1952 and 1969. This was a major driver of the environmental movement of the 1970s.
 
2012-09-28 03:35:04 PM
The article actually made me realize something.

In mentioning Caligula, what we know of him we apparently know through writings by his political detractors, so the myths and movies based on them may be nothing more than fantasy wrought of the Roman Empire's version of the Tea Party.

I wonder if in a few millennium, when the US has long since fallen in much the same manner, someone will dig up ancient relics(political ads) by the GOP/Tea Party, and an Obama direct to mind video is made based on the "historical" information that was found...

I'm sure members of the modern Tea Party will only see "Obama = Caligula" in my post...
 
2012-09-28 03:53:55 PM

miniflea: nmemkha: QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.

I've read that they think this may have happened to the black sea. There's evidence that the black sea was once a freshwater lake that was lower than sea level,

Ah, found it.

Combining the two ideas (regular floods in floodvalleys and one large superflood) as the origin of the flood myth seems to me the most likely scenario.



They've actually found an ancient shoreline under 300 feet of water in the Black Sea off Turkey, with strong evidence of human habitation (structures, tool-worked timbers, etc.) dating from ~8,000 years ago.

At around the same time, early civilizations were starting to flourish elsewhere in Anatolia, not far away. So it's fairly reasonable to assume that other civilized people in the area, in a temperate climate and parked next to an unlimited fresh-water source, would be very prosperous. Hence the Atlantis myth, epic of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark, and about a half-dozen other flood myths.
 
2012-09-28 05:00:03 PM
3.

3. 3. 3.

I get so tired of reading scripts where the screenwriter has decided authentic old English is just anything that is full of thee and thines.

OLD ENGLISH, MOTHER FARKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?

Because if you don't, don't wing it. Just make them speak regular English. It's not like we're a mere step away from thinking we've traveled in time, what with the popcorn and the guy next to us playing Mafia Wars on his phone.

/not that many people would be able to follow old English dialogue
//but 'it sounds way old to me' English is still not an acceptable substitute
 
2012-09-28 05:14:41 PM

Mr_Fabulous: They've actually found an ancient shoreline under 300 feet of water in the Black Sea off Turkey, with strong evidence of human habitation (structures, tool-worked timbers, etc.) dating from ~8,000 years ago.

At around the same time, early civilizations were starting to flourish elsewhere in Anatolia, not far away. So it's fairly reasonable to assume that other civilized people in the area, in a temperate climate and parked next to an unlimited fresh-water source, would be very prosperous. Hence the Atlantis myth, epic of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark, and about a half-dozen other flood myths.


While that would make sense for the regional myths it doesn't make much sense for other cultural flood stories on the other side of the globe like the Incan myth. Unless you really think that sometime after that there was a large tower and God struck the builder's changed their language and scattered them all over the world...
 
2012-09-28 05:26:03 PM

asquian: The article actually made me realize something.

In mentioning Caligula, what we know of him we apparently know through writings by his political detractors, so the myths and movies based on them may be nothing more than fantasy wrought of the Roman Empire's version of the Tea Party.


Something similar happened to Richard III. When a hatchet job becomes great literature it can be hard to convince people it started out as a hatchet job.
 
2012-09-28 07:26:05 PM
and that French feet were a bit longer than British feet, making Napoleon a whopping 5'6 1/2"

so ... he was short
 
2012-09-28 07:49:32 PM

QT_3.14159: Mr_Fabulous: They've actually found an ancient shoreline under 300 feet of water in the Black Sea off Turkey, with strong evidence of human habitation (structures, tool-worked timbers, etc.) dating from ~8,000 years ago.

At around the same time, early civilizations were starting to flourish elsewhere in Anatolia, not far away. So it's fairly reasonable to assume that other civilized people in the area, in a temperate climate and parked next to an unlimited fresh-water source, would be very prosperous. Hence the Atlantis myth, epic of Gilgamesh, Noah's Ark, and about a half-dozen other flood myths.

While that would make sense for the regional myths it doesn't make much sense for other cultural flood stories on the other side of the globe like the Incan myth. Unless you really think that sometime after that there was a large tower and God struck the builder's changed their language and scattered them all over the world...


If Noah's Ark is really up on Mt Arrarat, then thats about how high it would be in the Andes mountains. Fascinating. How could that much water have coverd the earth and how long ago could that have been?
 
2012-09-28 08:47:38 PM

Clash City Farker: How could that much water have coverd the earth and how long ago could that have been?


Short answer, it couldn't have.

Long answer, There's no way it couldn't have.
 
2012-09-28 09:12:35 PM

K.B.O. Winston: I get so tired of reading scripts where the screenwriter has decided authentic old English is just anything that is full of thee and thines.


i16.photobucket.com

Old English (first three lines of Beowulf):

"Hwæt! we Gar-Dena in gear-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon."

What most people mean when they say "Old English" is "Early MODERN English" (as in, still intelligible to a modern English speaker who isn't a complete f*cking retard)

/ pet peeve
 
2012-09-28 09:31:38 PM
Gather 'round kids, and let's give a whistle,
While I tell the story of Israel Bissell!
 
2012-09-28 10:34:48 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: nmemkha: QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.

The English, she is hard.


Yeah I don't edit as well as I should. Thankfully, given the number of responses relevant responses compared to your singular pedantic whine, my meaning was clear enough.
 
2012-09-28 11:15:57 PM

nmemkha: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: nmemkha: QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.

The English, she is hard.

Yeah I don't edit as well as I should. Thankfully, given the number of responses relevant responses compared to your singular pedantic whine, my meaning was clear enough.


Well, that's a valid point, and I'll take it. As for "clear enough," that may be debatable. I found it hard to read and figure out what you were saying. Editor's disease, perhaps. (Like, when a civil engineer drives under a bridge, all he sees is a big pile of cracking concrete.) If you can edit, though, it's really worth it, even if it takes more time and effort.
 
2012-09-28 11:24:11 PM

GranoblasticMan: K.B.O. Winston: I get so tired of reading scripts where the screenwriter has decided authentic old English is just anything that is full of thee and thines.

[i16.photobucket.com image 278x240]

Old English (first three lines of Beowulf):

"Hwæt! we Gar-Dena in gear-dagum,
þeod-cyninga, þrym gefrunon,
hu ða æþelingas ellen fremedon."

What most people mean when they say "Old English" is "Early MODERN English" (as in, still intelligible to a modern English speaker who isn't a complete f*cking retard)

/ pet peeve


Those words mean exactly what I think they mean. They don't mean what the writers of the scripts I read think they mean, which would be my point.

/pet peeve
 
2012-09-28 11:28:34 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: nmemkha: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: nmemkha: QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.

The English, she is hard.

Yeah I don't edit as well as I should. Thankfully, given the number of responses relevant responses compared to your singular pedantic whine, my meaning was clear enough.

Well, that's a valid point, and I'll take it. As for "clear enough," that may be debatable. I found it hard to read and figure out what you were saying. Editor's disease, perhaps. (Like, when a civil engineer drives under a bridge, all he sees is a big pile of cracking concrete.) If you can edit, though, it's really worth it, even if it takes more time and effort.


On boards that allow it, I often edit my posts to fix such mistakes. I am actually a poor proofreader of my own writing. I tend to "see" what I meant and not literally what I wrote until a few minutes later unless I force myself to read it slowly word for word. I also read extremely fast so that might be a part of it: I tend to glean the ideas without processing the semantics.

Sadly, Fark has no edit feature.
 
2012-09-28 11:44:24 PM
"He who warned uh, the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms, uh by ringing those bells, and um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed."
 
2012-09-28 11:47:22 PM

Clash City Farker: If Noah's Ark is really up on Mt Arrarat, then thats about how high it would be in the Andes mountains. Fascinating. How could that much water have coverd the earth and how long ago could that have been?


My point is that I think that if there is any historical accuracy to a "great flood" it likely happened so early in human history that the story moved with the people as they spread out. Since the people in the Americas have been here (theoretically) for around 16,000 years, 8,000 years is a little too recent history for the story to be the origin of the worldwide flood myths.

Of course, ancient people did travel a lot more than we give them credit for and it's possible the story traveled with them, but it still seems to me like it's just not ancient enough.
 
2012-09-29 01:06:12 AM

nmemkha: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: nmemkha: Sylvia_Bandersnatch: nmemkha: QT_3.14159: My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

I remember seeing a program the topic, one of the Bibe meets science things on History or some such. Take it with a grain of salt, but some of the experts presented where professors at various pertigious universities so one hopes its not too far out there. Anyway, the conjected that there was a huge flood of the Fertile Crecent in antiquity that was the basis flood myths. The also toyed with the idea is was caused by a Comet strike.

The English, she is hard.

Yeah I don't edit as well as I should. Thankfully, given the number of responses relevant responses compared to your singular pedantic whine, my meaning was clear enough.

Well, that's a valid point, and I'll take it. As for "clear enough," that may be debatable. I found it hard to read and figure out what you were saying. Editor's disease, perhaps. (Like, when a civil engineer drives under a bridge, all he sees is a big pile of cracking concrete.) If you can edit, though, it's really worth it, even if it takes more time and effort.

On boards that allow it, I often edit my posts to fix such mistakes. I am actually a poor proofreader of my own writing. I tend to "see" what I meant and not literally what I wrote until a few minutes later unless I force myself to read it slowly word for word. I also read extremely fast so that might be a part of it: I tend to glean the ideas without processing the semantics.

Sadly, Fark has no edit feature.


Fark has a kind of edit feature, in that you can preview and modify before committing (including, as I sometimes do, just deciding I don't have anything worthwhile to say after all), but like you say, no edit-back. As Hoyle says, "Card laid, card played," and let the metaphors fall where they may. If it's any consolation, though, *everyone* has trouble proofing anything they've written recently. I'm sure it's different for everyone, but for me it's about two weeks, minimum, before something I've written is remote enough that I can read it objectively. (If it's long enough, it seems to me like someone else wrote it. Which is kind of true, I guess.) Editors are better at it, but we also see what we *think* is there, because we remember it, more than what *is* there. When I wrote for a paper, I proofed my own work, but then passed it to another editor, who *always* found mistrakes. And verce visa.
 
2012-09-29 01:08:50 AM

KarmicDisaster: "He who warned uh, the British that they weren't gonna be takin' away our arms, uh by ringing those bells, and um, makin' sure as he's riding his horse through town to send those warning shots and bells that we were going to be sure and we were going to be free, and we were going to be armed."


I can't believe that woman hasn't stabbed hersef with a rubber spoon yet. More, though, I can't believe that anyone else on earth takes her seriously.
 
2012-09-29 03:03:08 AM
If you really want to learn something valuable read the book "1491" - if that doesn't make you hate the Spanish then you have no soul.
 
2012-09-29 04:10:53 AM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: wyltoknow: WhyteRaven74: Oh sure any group of men could be made to drag a stone, but actually cutting it and smoothing it out so the corners are a nice 90 degrees and consistent stone after stone? That takes a fair amount of skill and knowledge.

Eh, on the other hand, it's not particularly unheard of to have a group of slaves who were treated somewhat better than the rest of the slaves and given extra training and treatment, due to factors like their inherent display of skill/knowledge or maybe who their parents were or, for example in the case of American slaves, if their skin color was perhaps leaning towards favorable to their captors. So you take this smaller group, feed them well and give them education and a better position both literally and figuratively than their peers and voila, they'll pump out specialized craft for you. And then you have the added benefit of the imposed slave hierarchy breeding inter-resentment and strife amongst the servile population and further inhibiting the chance of a full-on cohesive rebellion.

At its height, Ancient Egypt was easily the wealthiest and most powerful nation on earth, and likely the world's first true superpower. Having mastered agriculture and irrigation to an unprecedented degree, they were likely the first country in the world with essentially unlimited resources of the kind they needed to thrive and grow. That afforded them the largesse to do things like dedicate whole sectors of their economy to building huge beautiful things.


Which is interesting because I recently visited the King Tut exhibit, and while it was all quite fascinating. I found that the attention to preciseness and detail in the various artifacts to be quite lacking.

For instance, the bead work seen on some of the necklaces was far below the standard bead work seen by various Native American tribes. (I say this only because if given the choice most people would place the Egyptian culture far ahead of any of the Native American ones in terms of "advanced civilization" or whatever the measurement is for that sort of thing.)

Likewise, many of the structural items did not have straight sides. Like really noticeably off.

The intricate carvings in pottery were also sloppy in several areas. (And these weren't items to be found in the common person's house, these were artifacts from royalty, where you expect some of the highest quality.)

While all of this is completely believable of a human society (our last apartment didn't have straight stairs itself) it was a bit of a surprise after hearing for decades about how amazing the Egyptian civilization was in terms of production of artifacts and art.

/although I wondered if perhaps the other civilizations around them were just really really bad and so they looked amazing by comparison?
//still a great exhibit, really glad I saw it.
 
2012-09-29 04:15:10 AM

QT_3.14159: nmemkha: jjwars1: DigitalCoffee: ~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.

I'm pretty sure Noah's Ark was not meant to be taken literally.

It makes more sense as a sci-fi sotry anyway with the ark being a UFO.

In any case, it not the only literary reference to such a story: The Epic of Gilgamesh parallels much of the early concepts found in Genesis.

There are quite a few flood stories throughout the world. Anthropologists think that this probably comes from the fact that early agriculture happened in flood plains and floods were a regular part of the yearly cycle. It would be normal for a story to come about with the flood being the work of God sweeping away the evil people. After all, the people who told the story were the ones who survived and must be favored by the gods.

My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.


There's a Native American story here (northwest coast) about a flood the reached the tops of the mountains and that they followed a bear to the top to avoid it and tied their canoes to the tops of the old growth douglas fir and cedar trees.

They weren't an agricultural people that I'm aware of.... (but I'm not certain either.)

/was quite fascinating to hear actually.
//got the short version
 
2012-09-29 05:02:02 AM

MartinD-35: If you really want to learn something valuable read the book "1491" - if that doesn't make you hate the Spanish then you have no soul.


My main takeaway from 1491 is that the Spanish were far less (directly) responsible for the annihilation of Indian culture than contemporary history books generally indicate. Yes, the Conquistadors were still bastards, but the Aztecs had it coming, the Inca were in the process of self-destructing, and the smallpox pandemic that eradicated most indigenous Americans was entirely out of the Europeans' control. It was far more likely accidental exposure from Portuguese fishermen than intentional "plague blankets" nefariousness on the part of Europeans.

The real tragedy is more of an epidemiological and environmental one, and the European conquest of the Americas reads much more like an inevitable consequence, like a vulture picking at carrion.

/and dear god, the swarms of passenger pigeons....
 
2012-09-29 05:12:59 AM
Robert Wuhl: Assume the position.
Link
 
2012-09-29 06:04:44 AM

Cthulhu_is_my_homeboy: MartinD-35: If you really want to learn something valuable read the book "1491" - if that doesn't make you hate the Spanish then you have no soul.

My main takeaway from 1491 is that the Spanish were far less (directly) responsible for the annihilation of Indian culture than contemporary history books generally indicate. Yes, the Conquistadors were still bastards, but the Aztecs had it coming, the Inca were in the process of self-destructing, and the smallpox pandemic that eradicated most indigenous Americans was entirely out of the Europeans' control. It was far more likely accidental exposure from Portuguese fishermen than intentional "plague blankets" nefariousness on the part of Europeans.

The real tragedy is more of an epidemiological and environmental one, and the European conquest of the Americas reads much more like an inevitable consequence, like a vulture picking at carrion.

/and dear god, the swarms of passenger pigeons....


While I generally agree with you're overview, what I was actually thinking about at the time I wrote that was DeSoto's herd of pigs. Not only did that event cause an enormous crash of the SE natives, we're still having unbelievable problems all over the SE US with feral pigs. Some get as big as a frigging SUV and they are dangerous and destructive at an amazing level. I also think people should read that book for the real reason that it shows the infra-red revealed archaeological history that is so different from what most people learned in school. I'm currently doing research on what the lost human history might have been 10,000 to 30,000 years ago when the sea levels were so much lower than today. Man has always clustered at the edge of the sea and land. I think the first epidemic of "world island" and African strains of disease came much earlier than the Portuguese fishermen (or the Irish and "Vikings"). The Phonecians almost certainly rowed and sailed across the Atlantic and didn't make it back to the middle east but established a semi-permanent colony (see America's stone henge) about 4,000 years ago. That orchard in the Amazon Basin just blew my mind away.
 
2012-09-29 09:36:52 AM

cuzsis: QT_3.14159: nmemkha: jjwars1: DigitalCoffee: ~6000 years ago it did not rain continuously for 40 days covering the entire earth in 5000+ feet of rainwater.

I'm pretty sure Noah's Ark was not meant to be taken literally.

It makes more sense as a sci-fi sotry anyway with the ark being a UFO.

In any case, it not the only literary reference to such a story: The Epic of Gilgamesh parallels much of the early concepts found in Genesis.

There are quite a few flood stories throughout the world. Anthropologists think that this probably comes from the fact that early agriculture happened in flood plains and floods were a regular part of the yearly cycle. It would be normal for a story to come about with the flood being the work of God sweeping away the evil people. After all, the people who told the story were the ones who survived and must be favored by the gods.

My own belief, though, is that there was a particularly devastating flood very early in human history, (heck, we may not have even been homo sapiens yet) that is the basis for the flood stories that are told worldwide. Of course devastating flood != worldwide flood, but it could certainly feel that way when they wind up floating for ages and eventually come to a landing in unfamiliar territory.

There's a Native American story here (northwest coast) about a flood the reached the tops of the mountains and that they followed a bear to the top to avoid it and tied their canoes to the tops of the old growth douglas fir and cedar trees.

They weren't an agricultural people that I'm aware of.... (but I'm not certain either.)

/was quite fascinating to hear actually.
//got the short version


My tribe bypassed all that, but they were holed up in some type of underworld at the time. We passed through a hollow log to this world. Maybe we were hiding from the Flood.
 
2012-09-29 12:11:13 PM

K.B.O. Winston: 3.

3. 3. 3.

I get so tired of reading scripts where the screenwriter has decided authentic old English is just anything that is full of thee and thines.

OLD ENGLISH, MOTHER FARKER, DO YOU SPEAK IT?

Because if you don't, don't wing it. Just make them speak regular English. It's not like we're a mere step away from thinking we've traveled in time, what with the popcorn and the guy next to us playing Mafia Wars on his phone.

/not that many people would be able to follow old English dialogue
//but 'it sounds way old to me' English is still not an acceptable substitute


Thou speakith true.
 
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