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(The Atlantic Wire)   Hey, by the way while you were distracted by secret recordings and replacement referees, the US suffered its worst airpower loss since the Vietnam war in Afghanistan   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 22
    More: Interesting, Afghanistan, Vietnam, aviation, military uniforms, opinions  
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24730 clicks; posted to Main » on 27 Sep 2012 at 3:05 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-27 01:06:06 PM  
5 votes:
The Vietnam War was in Vietnam, subby.
2012-09-27 01:04:12 PM  
4 votes:
i care more about the marines who died than the damn overpriced planes.
2012-09-27 01:49:11 PM  
3 votes:
Maybe it's because I'm a ground-pounder, but I was more upset by the thousands of ground vehicles blown up by IEDs with guys actually inside them, rather than a bunch of unmanned hangar queens getting fragged..
2012-09-27 03:17:11 PM  
2 votes:

Mighty_Joe: vpb: If I remember correctly from the last couple of time this was submitted, this is all Obama's fault be it was on "his watch" like he was there pulling guard duty and fell asleep or something,

He takes credit for bagging Bin Laden, why shouldn't he take the blame for this?


Did you allow him credit for bin Laden, or were you one of the ones shrieking it was all the SEALs and he did nothing?

If you allowed him the credit, you may assign the blame. Otherwise, STFU.
2012-09-27 03:11:44 PM  
2 votes:

vpb: If I remember correctly from the last couple of time this was submitted, this is all Obama's fault be it was on "his watch" like he was there pulling guard duty and fell asleep or something,


He takes credit for bagging Bin Laden, why shouldn't he take the blame for this?
2012-09-27 06:30:40 PM  
1 votes:

Kit Fister: In the meantime, I have absolutely no problem with treating these threats as a military organization and chopping off the head of the snake, killing every leader and whack job that would drive the masses to attack where we find them. However, it must be coupled with proving to those who are NOT involved that we are NOT what these farks say we are.


I like your ideas, but given the way we currently go about it, I think these two concepts are mutually exclusive. I don't think you can kill everyone who pisses us off, while simultaneously conveying the message "Hey, we're really nice people!" you know?
2012-09-27 06:12:44 PM  
1 votes:

Gyrfalcon: dittybopper: Quite simply.

An act of war doesn't have to come from a nation. It can be from a smaller organization. In the case of the 9/11 attacks, there were planned attacks on the economic (WTC), military (Pentagon), and civilian leadership (Flight 93 was to have target the US Capitol building).

Had it been a handful of guys who put a truck bomb in the WTC, then yes, I would say "criminal act".

When the loss of life exceeds that of the act which directly brought us into WWII, and it was planned by a paramilitary organization being protected by a government, then yes, it becomes an act of war.


There was a handful of guys who put a truck bomb in the WTC.Same purpose, same group, same intent.
There was a handful of guys who drove a speedboat into the USS Cole. Same purpose, same group, same intent.
There was a handful of guys who bombed two Embassies. Same purpose, same group, same intent.

Is your ONLY metric whether lots of people died? Or that the attacks occurred on the same day? Or whether our government decided "Yes, bombing the WTC with a plane is an act of war, whereas an ANFO bomb in a truck is not."?


I think it mostly comes down to the basic concept that: gee, we investigate, we arrest, we treat it like a criminal matter and they continually and repeatedly attack us. So, maybe if we declare all out war on these farkers and blow them the fark off the face of the earth, they'll stop?

The problem is that our mindset is geared towards fighting nations, and not ideologies. You can't expect to invade a country, overthrow a group, and walk out of there when the ideology remains. You can't fight it with war, you can't fight it with the justice system, you can't fight it with aggression. You CAN make the cost of attacking so terribly high, the consequences so terrifying and severe that no one dares do it for fear of the retaliation.

However, the only way to stamp out an idea is to supplant it. Convince the target audience that the idea is wrong, and it will die.

In the meantime, I have absolutely no problem with treating these threats as a military organization and chopping off the head of the snake, killing every leader and whack job that would drive the masses to attack where we find them. However, it must be coupled with proving to those who are NOT involved that we are NOT what these farks say we are.
2012-09-27 04:17:55 PM  
1 votes:

intelligent comment below: dittybopper: Yes, you can, for an act of war. To put it in perspective, more people died in the 9/11 attacks than died in the Pearl Harbor attack.


An act of war? Afghanistan never attacked on 9/11. It was a criminal act, and unless Afghanistan and America have an extradition treaty, you can't demand then invade a country to hand over criminals in it. That's not how diplomacy works


dittybopper: Yep. Act of war. You side with the enemy, you become the enemy. That simple.

How can a group of people create an "act of war"? They are not flying a banner of a country. They committed a criminal act and should have been brought to justice. Overthrowing a government not responsible for the attacks was a huge mistake that sadly your bias still cannot see today


Quite simply.

An act of war doesn't have to come from a nation. It can be from a smaller organization. In the case of the 9/11 attacks, there were planned attacks on the economic (WTC), military (Pentagon), and civilian leadership (Flight 93 was to have target the US Capitol building).

Had it been a handful of guys who put a truck bomb in the WTC, then yes, I would say "criminal act".

When the loss of life exceeds that of the act which directly brought us into WWII, and it was planned by a paramilitary organization being protected by a government, then yes, it becomes an act of war.
2012-09-27 04:00:20 PM  
1 votes:

Marine1: I'd also consider the Norks a worthy opponent back during the Korean War. Well, maybe not their run-of-the-mill lackeys, but the veteran Soviet pilots that were sent to train the DPRK pilots and their more advanced students gave American pilots a heck of a fight at times.


AngryJailhouseFistfark: The North Vietnamese had a very competent air force supplied and trained by the USSR.


But nothing compared to the power and sheer numbers of US planes and number of sorties.

And I think the USSR was doing mostly what the US did in Afghanistan during the Russian invasion. Throwing a wrench in their Cold War enemy's invasion plans while being careful not to overcommit and break the bank. Or cause an international incident and kickstart WWIII.
2012-09-27 03:54:37 PM  
1 votes:

Bigjohn3592: Underreported. Why would the press make a big deal out of something that would hurt Obama's re-election effort. He is their favorite after all.

/Think that's BS? Imagine if this happened in Iraq, 2008. What level of reporting and press scutiny would this have recieved?


Well, I was in Iraq in 2008, during the Surge. I remember the press crowning General Petraeus a modern-day Sun Tzu for his brilliant plan of "send more guys."

What was your point, again?
2012-09-27 03:44:53 PM  
1 votes:
Underreported. Why would the press make a big deal out of something that would hurt Obama's re-election effort. He is their favorite after all.

/Think that's BS? Imagine if this happened in Iraq, 2008. What level of reporting and press scutiny would this have recieved?


THIS.

Can't let their guy look bad...
2012-09-27 03:33:31 PM  
1 votes:

intelligent comment below: dittybopper: Except they didn't say "Hey, we'll do our damnedest to get him for you". They said "Fark off and die, we'll try him for it here".


And? So what? You can't tell a country what to do when you want to. America can't tell a country to arrest someone and hand them over just because they want to


Yes, you can, for an act of war. To put it in perspective, more people died in the 9/11 attacks than died in the Pearl Harbor attack.

dittybopper: Also, we didn't give them 24 hours. Bush gave the ultimatum on September 20th. The Taliban responded on October 5th saying they would try him, which was of course unacceptable, and we started military operations 2 days after that on October 7th.

They had a bit over 2 weeks.

You're playing semantics I was just using that time frame as an example of how ridiculous it was.

... and it changes nothing.


Yep. Act of war. You side with the enemy, you become the enemy. That simple.
2012-09-27 03:27:13 PM  
1 votes:

Oakenshield: I seems like if we weren't in Afganistan, this wouldn't have happened.


They are Harriers. They regularly crash. It would have happened anyway, just over a slightly longer period of time.
2012-09-27 03:24:43 PM  
1 votes:

intelligent comment below: Weaver95: why are we still in Afghanistan anyway? i'm not even sure why we invaded them in the first place. something something terrorism war on drugs maybe?


Well obviously after 17 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi, and the funding came from Saudi Arabia, obviously the best option was to demand Afghanistan "hand over" terrorists in areas of their country not even Pakistan could control. It's like America demanding Mexico hand over all the cartel leaders in 24 hours or face invasion.


i216.photobucket.com
2012-09-27 03:21:50 PM  
1 votes:

Mighty_Joe: vpb: If I remember correctly from the last couple of time this was submitted, this is all Obama's fault be it was on "his watch" like he was there pulling guard duty and fell asleep or something,

He takes credit for bagging Bin Laden, why shouldn't he take the blame for this?

That

was credit. This is blame. Sheesh, can't you see the difference?
2012-09-27 03:21:35 PM  
1 votes:
Underreported. Why would the press make a big deal out of something that would hurt Obama's re-election effort. He is their favorite after all.

/Think that's BS? Imagine if this happened in Iraq, 2008. What level of reporting and press scutiny would this have recieved?
2012-09-27 03:17:31 PM  
1 votes:
Let's put it in real perspective: Over the last 40 years, we lose about 1.375 Harriers per year to training accidents. During the 1990s, we lost an average of 2 per year, so this would be about 3 to 4 years worth of training accidents, except we lost fewer personnel.
2012-09-27 02:46:21 PM  
1 votes:

NuttierThanEver: Also the Harriers are the worst farking planes in the US arsenal, we need to mothball the damn things.




img839.imageshack.us
2012-09-27 01:45:17 PM  
1 votes:
No I wasn't distracted, I read about this the other 500 times it has been submitted and redlit in the past week.
2012-09-27 01:37:53 PM  
1 votes:
Damn, now we'll never be able to win in Afghanistan.
2012-09-27 01:09:30 PM  
1 votes:

Weaver95: why are we still in Afghanistan anyway? i'm not even sure why we invaded them in the first place. something something terrorism war on drugs maybe?


And why would we leave a squadron of highly valuable Harriers lying around the desert when we do everything via drone these days?
2012-09-27 01:07:08 PM  
1 votes:
why are we still in Afghanistan anyway? i'm not even sure why we invaded them in the first place. something something terrorism war on drugs maybe?
 
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