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(Develop)   Run Linux? Enjoy gaming? Well steam has good news   (develop-online.net) divider line 76
    More: Followup, linux, Left 4 Dead 2, ubuntu, steam  
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3457 clicks; posted to Geek » on 27 Sep 2012 at 2:01 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-27 06:24:31 PM  
How many Linux users really want DRM on their systems? And how many want pay money to do it (most of the non-cheapskate unix fans I know use OSX)?

I'll probably keep steam over on my windows partition (I play Skyrim, and have learned to hate steam). Not so sure if I'll ever install Steam on the Linux side if they ever allow it on non-Ubuntu (unity: showing microsoft the way to metro).
 
2012-09-27 06:28:11 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: How many Linux users really want DRM on their systems? And how many want pay money to do it (most of the non-cheapskate unix fans I know use OSX)?

I'll probably keep steam over on my windows partition (I play Skyrim, and have learned to hate steam). Not so sure if I'll ever install Steam on the Linux side if they ever allow it on non-Ubuntu (unity: showing microsoft the way to metro).


I doubt it will be much of a controversy. Steam is farking HUGE. Many Linux lovers, even the most communistic-free-software folk, will be euphoric when this debuts.
 
2012-09-27 06:39:13 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: How many Linux users really want DRM on their systems? And how many want pay money to do it (most of the non-cheapskate unix fans I know use OSX)?

I'll probably keep steam over on my windows partition (I play Skyrim, and have learned to hate steam). Not so sure if I'll ever install Steam on the Linux side if they ever allow it on non-Ubuntu (unity: showing microsoft the way to metro).



derpy.ponychan.net
 
2012-09-27 06:40:01 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: How many Linux users really want DRM on their systems?


The ones who use it, not because of FOSS ideology, but because they find it a better way to use their computer? They probably won't care. A lot of Linux users are already running it in Wine. Even on OSX, I'm tempted to run it in Wine for more games (I refuse to dual boot, on principle).
 
2012-09-27 06:54:57 PM  

t3knomanser: yet_another_wumpus: How many Linux users really want DRM on their systems?

The ones who use it, not because of FOSS ideology, but because they find it a better way to use their computer? They probably won't care. A lot of Linux users are already running it in Wine. Even on OSX, I'm tempted to run it in Wine for more games (I refuse to dual boot, on principle).


I have a hard time understanding a willingness to use two separate OSs and an unwillingness to dual boot.

My experience with wine has been of the dancing bear variety. It is impressive by working at all, but expect frames per second to drop by at least an order of magnitude (note, did not have a nvidia card or binary blob driver). Note that this might be enough for Baldur's Gate: the second coming and other Grand Old Games.

Also, I'm not saying there all that many ideologically pure penguinistas out there, just that there aren't that many total linux users and if you cut out two major reasons to use it out, that leaves even less users to sell steam apps to. Of course it might still be more users than trying to work around the Winstore for Windows 8.
 
2012-09-27 07:01:21 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: t3knomanser: yet_another_wumpus: How many Linux users really want DRM on their systems?

The ones who use it, not because of FOSS ideology, but because they find it a better way to use their computer? They probably won't care. A lot of Linux users are already running it in Wine. Even on OSX, I'm tempted to run it in Wine for more games (I refuse to dual boot, on principle).

I have a hard time understanding a willingness to use two separate OSs and an unwillingness to dual boot.

My experience with wine has been of the dancing bear variety. It is impressive by working at all, but expect frames per second to drop by at least an order of magnitude (note, did not have a nvidia card or binary blob driver). Note that this might be enough for Baldur's Gate: the second coming and other Grand Old Games.

Also, I'm not saying there all that many ideologically pure penguinistas out there, just that there aren't that many total linux users and if you cut out two major reasons to use it out, that leaves even less users to sell steam apps to. Of course it might still be more users than trying to work around the Winstore for Windows 8.


WINE is awesome. Wasnt always that way. I can recall pre-Wine 1.0 and how it ran basically nothing at all. It has improved drastically in the past few years. It does still have a way to go, and it is always a work in progress, but because of how far they have come, I never have given up on them.
 
2012-09-27 07:08:05 PM  
Run Linux? Enjoy gaming? Well steam has good news stop being a self-righteous douchebag and get a Windows machine to play your games on.

FIFY subby
 
2012-09-27 07:50:02 PM  

SteelDraco: Marine1: I'm gonna stick to Windows for my gaming needs, but it's neat that they're doing this.

I actually got my first (decent) Linux system up and running last night. Lemme tell ya, that distro is the first one I've ever seen that comes with a lot of refinement. Very happy with it, and will be using it to do C programming and other more utility-type tasks.

Did you just endorse a distro without telling us which one you're endorsing? Trying to keep it a secret?

Last time I used Linux I went with Mint, work with RHEL 6 at work.


Yeah, Mint... sorry, was up until 4 in the morning working on math. Not completely with it today.
 
2012-09-27 08:11:51 PM  

2words1finger: Run Linux? Enjoy gaming? Well steam has good news stop being a self-righteous douchebag and get a Windows machine to play your games on.

FIFY subby


Not one to judge folks on their OS choice. Same goes for phone, car, religion. Peoples choice in what they use for an OS has no effect on me, unless they are a director at work and I'm told to work on their machines. But no, you didn't do anything except show us all that coming in here and claiming that folks who use a different OS, and are self-righteous douchebags, actually makes you the self-righteous douchebag. But hey, what ever works for you

/Subby
//Windows user
 
2012-09-27 08:34:43 PM  

cman: W00T W00T

/I am a triple booter, OS X, Windows, and Ubuntu (fark Unity, I use Cinnamon).


So much ^.

I was a very happy Ubuntu user until I went from 10.04 to 12.04. It was like they were trying to turn my laptop into a tablet with oversized icons on the desktop and a disorganized menu where it was impossible to find anything. Not to mention that the stupid Unity bar constantly had glitches and the applications I had open would disappear entirely when minimized.

Then I found Mint with a Cinammon desktop. So efficient. So organized. So not Unity.

/double booter
//but hardly ever uses Windows
 
2012-09-27 09:03:11 PM  

MusicMakeMyHeadPound: cman: Oh, fellow Linux users, how are the Nvidia drivers? I am an ATI fan myself, but their Linux drivers are terrible

lol, expect a response from fluffy2097 about how it's like being raped by rabid badgers with razors for penises or something hyperbolically graphic :P

A more grounded answer: "They're alright. They work... usually. Make sure you know how to recover in case they don't." :P


This, pretty much. I moved the driver package to the root directory and renamed it "viddriver.run" just so I could reinstall without typing a directory tree and the old farkedup driver name into the command line. Kernel updates will render your existing driver install unusable sooner or later.

/Ubuntu user since 2007
//Unity spews rabid walrus semen
///Will switch distros if I have to, I've done it before...
 
2012-09-27 09:10:38 PM  

miscreant: So the Steam client will run on Linux... and I could see Valve themselves porting their games, but getting third party developers to port to Linux is unlikely.


You'd think, but every game in the humble bundle 6 works on windows/mac/linux this time around. Pretty much everything based on the source engine will make it, too.

OS X started the same way, and I had one or two games which I could install over there. I just checked, and now 46/80 work on OS X.

If there is a chance to make money, and that chance is greater than the risk of a port, it will happen.
 
2012-09-27 09:20:40 PM  
As a lot of game companies that ported stuff to Linux about 10 years ago found out, except for an ethical minority, Linux users don't pay for stuff.

Loki software ported Alpha Centauri - which is a pretty amazing game - to Linux. They sold less than 500 copies. Loki did a great job creating Linux ports when it seemed reasonable to predict that there was going to be a "year of Linux on the desktop" - and they crashed and burned because the enthusiasm for the games never correlated with *sales*. Loki ported really popular games that sold hundreds of thousands of copies on other platforms - but which didn't sell enough copies on Linux to make the company remotely viable.

Good on Steam for trying - but the culture of entitlement WRT free (as in beer) is too strong in the community.
 
2012-09-27 09:29:15 PM  

narkor: Loki software ported Alpha Centauri - which is a pretty amazing game - to Linux. They sold less than 500 copies. Loki did a great job creating Linux ports when it seemed reasonable to predict that there was going to be a "year of Linux on the desktop" - and they crashed and burned because the enthusiasm for the games never correlated with *sales*. Loki ported really popular games that sold hundreds of thousands of copies on other platforms - but which didn't sell enough copies on Linux to make the company remotely viable.


That was also back when voodoo cards were king. The market was significantly smaller then. Not just gamers, but computers in general -- it was not uncommon to talk to someone in 1998 who did not own a computer.
 
2012-09-27 09:36:10 PM  

cman: WINE is awesome. Wasnt always that way. I can recall pre-Wine 1.0 and how it ran basically nothing at all. It has improved drastically in the past few years. It does still have a way to go, and it is always a work in progress, but because of how far they have come, I never have given up on them.


When I found that EVE would run in wine years ago, I made the jump from windows. Sadly, I still keep an XP partition because wine has a habit of breaking EVE with new updates. That and Skyrim doesn't run for poop in wine. Of course, Steam doesn't run for poop in XP SP2 either (I quit updating after getting tired of updates breaking my paid-for yet no-cd cracked games) so I even had to crack Skyrim.

Also, since someone up-thread brought up DRM and linux users, I'm one of those No-DRM-Zone freaks and really don't want Steam on my well-behaved linux system, but that's just a matter of making sure Steam doesn't snoop around outside the box I put it in. 

New games are the only sticking point for me in Linux. Every tool I used for photography, astrophotography, game modding, graphics, etc. has been replaced with FOSS. Once I crested the learning curve, I knew I'd never go back to a commercial OS. I don't mind paying for software, as long as said software doesn't get all nosey and try to play gatekeeper so that I can be further monetized.
 
2012-09-27 09:41:04 PM  

narkor: As a lot of game companies that ported stuff to Linux about 10 years ago found out, except for an ethical minority, Linux users don't pay for stuff.

Loki software ported Alpha Centauri - which is a pretty amazing game - to Linux. They sold less than 500 copies. Loki did a great job creating Linux ports when it seemed reasonable to predict that there was going to be a "year of Linux on the desktop" - and they crashed and burned because the enthusiasm for the games never correlated with *sales*. Loki ported really popular games that sold hundreds of thousands of copies on other platforms - but which didn't sell enough copies on Linux to make the company remotely viable.

Good on Steam for trying - but the culture of entitlement WRT free (as in beer) is too strong in the community.

Look at any photograph or work of art. If you could duplicate exactly the first tiny dot of color, and then the next and the next, you would end with a perfect copy of the whole, indistinguishable from the original in every way, including the so-called "moral value" of the art itself. Nothing can transcend its smallest elements.

-CEO Nwabudike Morgan, "The Ethics of Greed"

/damnit, off to re-install. Thanks, there goes my weekend.
 
2012-09-27 10:39:10 PM  

narkor: Loki software ported Alpha Centauri - which is a pretty amazing game - to Linux. They sold less than 500 copies.


I wish id still had their old attitude towards linux. They managed to extend the shelf life (sales) on their games quite a bit by making it easy to run linux servers for their games and being generous enough to do cool things like open up significant amounts of engine source code for the modders to play with. This kind of thing gets harder to do when the games insist on calling home and inviting them in for a look around to see if you've been modifying things before granting you permission to run a program that you've paid for, and mods help drive a game's popularity.

You don't have complete control of your IP where the 'net is concerned, and you don't have to have complete control to be profitable. Try to find a game that has not been cracked. Even with Steam, there are players who pay nothing. It's pretty much an unavoidable loss, and they're not going away no matter how onerous you make DRM because it doesn't affect them. It only affect me, you and anyone else who has paid for a product.

Sometimes I don't think they'll be happy until a PC becomes a cable TV box.


Oh, and...

BumpInTheNight: Good on Steam for trying - but the culture of entitlement WRT free (as in beer) is too strong in the community.


Trolling or just ignorant?
 
2012-09-27 10:39:16 PM  

narkor: As a lot of game companies that ported stuff to Linux about 10 years ago found out, except for an ethical minority, Linux users don't pay for stuff.

Loki software ported Alpha Centauri - which is a pretty amazing game - to Linux. They sold less than 500 copies. Loki did a great job creating Linux ports when it seemed reasonable to predict that there was going to be a "year of Linux on the desktop" - and they crashed and burned because the enthusiasm for the games never correlated with *sales*. Loki ported really popular games that sold hundreds of thousands of copies on other platforms - but which didn't sell enough copies on Linux to make the company remotely viable.

Good on Steam for trying - but the culture of entitlement WRT free (as in beer) is too strong in the community.


Actually, for every single Humble Indie Bundle the largest average payment comes from Linux users. How does that square with your "culture of entitlement" theories?

Linux was a lot different to develop for in 99-01; Loki was to say the least ambitious. We owe them for SDL and creating the beginnings of Linux gaming in the retail space, but there was no way to keep their costs low w/r/t the amount of work they had to do.
 
2012-09-27 10:46:29 PM  
iPhail. Apologies, BumpInTheNight, for the misquote. That was meant for narkor.
 
2012-09-27 10:47:09 PM  

chupathingie:
BumpInTheNight(not): Good on Steam for trying - but the culture of entitlement WRT free (as in beer) is too strong in the community.

Trolling or just ignorant?


Misquote much?
 
2012-09-27 10:47:44 PM  

chupathingie: iPhail. Apologies, BumpInTheNight, for the misquote. That was meant for narkor.


hehehe, all good :)
 
2012-09-27 10:54:42 PM  

BumpInTheNight: chupathingie: iPhail. Apologies, BumpInTheNight, for the misquote. That was meant for narkor.

hehehe, all good :)


One of these days my ignorance with multiple quotations here will stop snaring innocents...
 
2012-09-28 07:59:33 AM  
So this brings us how much closer to getting Half Life 2: Episode 3 again?
 
2012-09-28 10:09:35 AM  

chupathingie: cman: WINE is awesome. Wasnt always that way. I can recall pre-Wine 1.0 and how it ran basically nothing at all. It has improved drastically in the past few years. It does still have a way to go, and it is always a work in progress, but because of how far they have come, I never have given up on them.

When I found that EVE would run in wine years ago, I made the jump from windows. Sadly, I still keep an XP partition because wine has a habit of breaking EVE with new updates. That and Skyrim doesn't run for poop in wine. Of course, Steam doesn't run for poop in XP SP2 either (I quit updating after getting tired of updates breaking my paid-for yet no-cd cracked games) so I even had to crack Skyrim.

Also, since someone up-thread brought up DRM and linux users, I'm one of those No-DRM-Zone freaks and really don't want Steam on my well-behaved linux system, but that's just a matter of making sure Steam doesn't snoop around outside the box I put it in. 

New games are the only sticking point for me in Linux. Every tool I used for photography, astrophotography, game modding, graphics, etc. has been replaced with FOSS. Once I crested the learning curve, I knew I'd never go back to a commercial OS. I don't mind paying for software, as long as said software doesn't get all nosey and try to play gatekeeper so that I can be further monetized.



How is being unemployed treating you?
 
2012-09-28 12:29:22 PM  

fluffy2097: How is being unemployed treating you?


You have me confused with your mom. I've been tearing up, repairing, and adding to the network that lets you type rambling nonsense to the world for the past 15 years. Doesn't look like there is any shortage of youse guys, so I'm fairly confident that I'll be at it for another 15, at least. Keep it up, my retirement is looking better and better every day.
 
2012-09-29 07:24:17 PM  

Unoriginal_Username: 2words1finger: Run Linux? Enjoy gaming? Well steam has good news stop being a self-righteous douchebag and get a Windows machine to play your games on.

FIFY subby

Not one to judge folks on their OS choice. Same goes for phone, car, religion. Peoples choice in what they use for an OS has no effect on me, unless they are a director at work and I'm told to work on their machines. But no, you didn't do anything except show us all that coming in here and claiming that folks who use a different OS, and are self-righteous douchebags, actually makes you the self-righteous douchebag. But hey, what ever works for you

/Subby
//Windows user


And by taking the time to reply in that pontificate stream of verbal vomit there, you have shown that you are also a self-righteous douchebag, so right back at ya, pal!
 
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