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(Daily Kos)   Today's Romney gaffe of the day: "I want to bring the (tax) rates down. By the way, don't be expecting a huge cut in taxes because I'm also going to lower deductions and exemptions"   (dailykos.com ) divider line
    More: Fail, itemized deduction, Health Care, International, romney, tax plans, taxpayer dollars, Daily Kos, income taxes, tax rates  
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3324 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Sep 2012 at 5:32 PM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-26 06:46:11 PM  

Corvus: Isitoveryet: damn!

get a business loan or simply pay for it out of your business account if you have the funds to cover it.

So he is going to say:

See!!! Your business accounts was profit!!!!

and ignore the fact you would still be able to count the new hire against revenue for the current year and still get the same tax break for that tax year.


Hah!
I think we've already established that income and profit are 2 different things, at least i hope so.
 
2012-09-26 06:46:24 PM  

Thrag: I alone am best: No, it isn't a profit its an expense. However I am still taxed on my profits. If I am taxed less on my profits then I have more money at the end of the day. What could I do with extra money?

Well, you could take some business classes so that next time you decide to wade into a thread like this you don't painfully embarrass yourself with your complete ignorance of everything and anything to do with business and taxes.


I have heard so many conservatives that think the same thing. They don't realize that there is already tax deductions for all these things and the only thing Republicans actually want to cut taxes for business is pure profits. Money not spent on hires, R&D or equipment.
 
2012-09-26 06:46:55 PM  

Corvus: Isitoveryet: damn!

get a business loan or simply pay for it out of your business account if you have the funds to cover it.

So he is going to say:

See!!! Your business accounts was profit!!!!

and ignore the fact you would still be able to count the new hire against revenue for the current year and still get the same tax break for that tax year.


:)
 
2012-09-26 06:47:18 PM  

I alone am best: mrshowrules: I alone am best: mrshowrules: Slives: One thing that Republicans just don't seem to want to get is if there is no consumer demand for the products and services the company offers, there is not much incentive for them hire workers, no matter how low the tax rate is for them.

I've been told by top men that if rich people have more money they will hire more people to make stuff.

Because companies never try to branch out and find more profit. That's just unpossible, if they make cogs today they will make cogs tomorrow they would never try to make widgets. Look at Sony they only make the tr-55 transistor radio and they are doing just fine.

You have $10M in the bank. You think you can double that over 5 years by investing in a new cog. However, your tax rate on the profits has been doubled by Fartbongo (let's say 15% to 30%) so rather than make $7M in profit, you opt to bury your $10 in the back yard. That's the ticket.

Because if I try and I fail my profitable portion of the business is making less money due to higher taxes and my failing portion of the business is losing money that gives me less money to fall back on in case something happens to the profitable business. Thinking you can do something does not always equal success and companies are not guaranteed to succeed.


It is obvious you never ran a business. Please find me any citation by any business school or business theory which indicates that you consider your tax rate on profits as a consideration in how much you invest in expanding your business. Every model I`ve seen is all about where you can sell more and make more profit as the driver versus the investment cost. The tax rate at the back end is meaningless.
 
2012-09-26 06:47:36 PM  

Thrag: I alone am best: How do I pay for something that I want to do that may exceed my income?

Have you ever heard of this thing called "credit"?

Seriously, just stop. You've demonstrated your profound ignorance of everything business related already. You don't need to keep reinforcing the point.


Credit is nice if you can get it.

Businesses usually can. Us poverty-stricken former students with huge loans cannot.
 
2012-09-26 06:47:52 PM  

Cletus C.: Ow! That was my feelings!: Yeah, let's cut taxes some more! What could possibly go wrong?

[c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com image 500x281]

//the Cult of the Tax Cut needs to diaf

Also, with more taxes we could spend twice as much!


wut? How does opposing more tax cuts lead to spending twice as much? How about this...

No more tax cuts until we pay OUR FARKING BILLS!!! That is something a TRUE fiscal conservative would support.  Like me.
 
2012-09-26 06:48:44 PM  
Clown shoes.
 
2012-09-26 06:49:16 PM  

Isitoveryet: Corvus: Isitoveryet: damn!

get a business loan or simply pay for it out of your business account if you have the funds to cover it.

So he is going to say:

See!!! Your business accounts was profit!!!!

and ignore the fact you would still be able to count the new hire against revenue for the current year and still get the same tax break for that tax year.

Hah!
I think we've already established that income and profit are 2 different things, at least i hope so.


Yeah, but the business accounts are not income. They are accumulated profit. However I would not be good at running a business, which is pretty apparent from this thread. You two win. Ill stick to my day job.
 
2012-09-26 06:50:07 PM  

Isitoveryet: Corvus: Isitoveryet: damn!

get a business loan or simply pay for it out of your business account if you have the funds to cover it.

So he is going to say:

See!!! Your business accounts was profit!!!!

and ignore the fact you would still be able to count the new hire against revenue for the current year and still get the same tax break for that tax year.

Hah!
I think we've already established that income and profit are 2 different things, at least i hope so.


Yeah, he is not getting it. He is right profit from previous years can be used for expenses for future years. What he is not getting is that then you would get that same deduction in the future and still be getting the same amount of revenue tax free.

He hasn't done the math.

And yes you'll have less profit, but you are getting the deduction from that years revenue, so it's the same amount.
 
2012-09-26 06:51:32 PM  

I alone am best: stuff


So far you've demonstrated that you don't understand:
1) Credit
2) The fundamental accounting equation
3) opportunity cost
4) How taxes decrease the incurred cost of expenses
5) How taxes impact ROI of investments in labor, services, goods, etc.
6) How taxes impact incentive to use financial leverage
7) How taxes impact optimal financial leverage point

www.splotchy.com 

/seriously, I'm embarrassed for you
 
2012-09-26 06:52:10 PM  

I alone am best: Mugato: I alone am best: Totally not like some companies are about to fail and then are bought by people looking for a deal to turn them around and sometimes they cant. Or occasionally they succeed like staples, domino pizza or sealy.

Obviously if you buy a distressed company you should waste crap tons of money trying to make it profitable.

Is that what you think Mitt does?

He doesn't do it anymore. However many private equity firms do just that. A profitable company is worth more than its assets. Sometimes you make a mistake and buy the wrong company. Blaming someone for a company failing when that company was going to fail anyway is pretty silly.


You seem to be confusing venture capital investments with private equity deals which sacrifice in favor of short term profits to pay off the company's debt versus long term stability since cost cutting tends to hamper expansion and product development. They also usually cut jobs to the bone. So much for "job creators".
 
2012-09-26 06:52:31 PM  

Thrag: I alone am best: How do I pay for something that I want to do that may exceed my income?

Have you ever heard of this thing called "credit"?

Seriously, just stop. You've demonstrated your profound ignorance of everything business related already. You don't need to keep reinforcing the point.


He's talking about the interest deduction, as in, how does he buy something that exceeds his income without using a loan.

I guess you didn't build this either.
 
2012-09-26 06:52:50 PM  

I alone am best: Corvus: Isitoveryet: damn!

get a business loan or simply pay for it out of your business account if you have the funds to cover it.

So he is going to say:

See!!! Your business accounts was profit!!!!

and ignore the fact you would still be able to count the new hire against revenue for the current year and still get the same tax break for that tax year.

:)


Do you get it?

If I take the deduction in a later year it's still a deduction against the year, having made profit in previous years doesn't matter.

Unless you are not making a profit and then cutting taxes is not going to help you anyway because you're not paying taxes no matter what that rate is.
 
2012-09-26 06:53:43 PM  

I alone am best: Yeah, but the business accounts are not income. They are accumulated profit. However I would not be good at running a business, which is pretty apparent from this thread. You two win. Ill stick to my day job.


actually, your acct statement at the end of the year (if it's in the positive) is the profits the business made for the year (remember P=I-E). So you pay off debt, pay bonuses to employees (let them pay the tax) plus other ways to bring that figure down for sure (i.e. invest, R&D etc.).
 
2012-09-26 06:54:15 PM  
How is that a gaffe?
He is bringing tax rates down and reducing deductions. That means that the rich who take advantage of all these deductions will pay more an the middle class pays less. Isn't that what the left wants?
 
2012-09-26 06:54:36 PM  

Cataholic: Philip Francis Queeg: Timmy the Tumor: What's Obama's plan?

(grabs popcorn)

The President's Budget for Fiscal Year 2013

Think it will get any votes in the senate this year?


yeah because the Dems are going to change the cloture rules like the GOP promised to do if they got the majority.
 
2012-09-26 06:54:55 PM  

I alone am best: Isitoveryet: Corvus: Isitoveryet: damn!

get a business loan or simply pay for it out of your business account if you have the funds to cover it.

So he is going to say:

See!!! Your business accounts was profit!!!!

and ignore the fact you would still be able to count the new hire against revenue for the current year and still get the same tax break for that tax year.

Hah!
I think we've already established that income and profit are 2 different things, at least i hope so.

Yeah, but the business accounts are not income. They are accumulated profit. However I would not be good at running a business, which is pretty apparent from this thread. You two win. Ill stick to my day job.


Right it is profit. But like I already said you still get that deduction against current revenue.

And if you are not making a profit? You aren't going to really be paying taxes anyway no matter what the rate is so Romney's "cut" doesn't help you again.


You are being fooled. Romney is playing you as an idiot.
 
2012-09-26 06:56:16 PM  

Grand_Moff_Joseph: [soyouwanttoknowwhyimsingle.files.wordpress.com image 640x480]


And right on schedule I might add!
 
2012-09-26 06:56:41 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: How is that a gaffe?
He is bringing tax rates down and reducing deductions. That means that the rich who take advantage of all these deductions will pay more an the middle class pays less. Isn't that what the left wants?


Well that's not true. The bug deduction Rich people use is capital gains and Romney is not going to cut that. So to get revenues everyone who has looked at this believe he will need to remove the mortgage deduction which will raise the actual taxes paid of the middle class.

He will raises taxes paid of the middle class and cut it even more for the rich.
 
2012-09-26 06:57:40 PM  
Guess he lives nowhere.
 
2012-09-26 06:58:54 PM  

Slaves2Darkness:

Christ the Republitards and Demorats are shiatting bricks about sequestering and the tax increase coming at the end of the year. How much more damage will be inflicted if we lower the tax rate?


Who cares when you are rich enough to buy your own island and move there once you are done shiatting all over everything. You know how consumers just toss away electronics and appliance rather than fix them? Same principle, just bigger and one that impacts millions of people not smart enought to be born to rich parents.
 
2012-09-26 07:00:17 PM  
i.huffpost.com
This man has worn himself ragged, fighting the good fight against himself. Imagine how he'd look after fighting against China, Russia, Iran, and Citizen's United at the same time? He won't be concerned about 47% of Americans though, so he has that in his favor.
 
2012-09-26 07:00:49 PM  
If Romney could keep it down to one gaffe a day his campaign team would be popping champagne corks.
 
2012-09-26 07:00:54 PM  

Mija: ecmoRandomNumbers: Nobody needs the mortgage interest deduction anyway, because most people just pay cash for their homes. Don't they, Mitt?

Oh come off it. I paid cash for my home and I make under $30,000 a year. Learn the difference between needs and desires. Pay for your needs, learn to tell yourself no and save your money. Simple. Only people who fail math think the mortgage interest deduction is a good thing. Know what a good thing is? Not paying your bank interest and paying three times the worth of your home by the time you pay it off. You also have the risk of debt. Many things can happen in life. If I lose my job I have a home. If you lose your job you may become homeless. If you want to live in debt slavery then have at it but don't pretend that it's not a choice.

/Voting for Obama


Bonus, if you get sick and don't have enough money to cover your treatment, you can lose your home too. Then you have debt and no home,

USA USA USA
 
2012-09-26 07:01:11 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: I alone am best: stuff

So far you've demonstrated that you don't understand:
1) Credit
2) The fundamental accounting equation
3) opportunity cost
4) How taxes decrease the incurred cost of expenses
5) How taxes impact ROI of investments in labor, services, goods, etc.
6) How taxes impact incentive to use financial leverage
7) How taxes impact optimal financial leverage point

[www.splotchy.com image 300x301] 

/seriously, I'm embarrassed for you


I'm sorry. I can't be an expert on everything.
 
2012-09-26 07:01:16 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Guess he lives nowhere.


Link
 
2012-09-26 07:03:17 PM  
Say what you want about Biden's gaffes, but they are at least funny.

Mitt's gaffes are just sad.
 
2012-09-26 07:04:40 PM  

mcreadyblue: Cork on Fork: impaler: Which deductions?

I would wager that the student loan interest deduction would be the first to go. Poor people should just go to vocational school or community college. And the GOP has made it clear that they don't care much about promoting education.

Used to be all interest was deductible (like it is for busineses).


I know. And it phases out at such a low income level that it is really just pathetic.
 
2012-09-26 07:05:35 PM  

I alone am best: Don't Troll Me Bro!: I alone am best: stuff

So far you've demonstrated that you don't understand:
1) Credit
2) The fundamental accounting equation
3) opportunity cost
4) How taxes decrease the incurred cost of expenses
5) How taxes impact ROI of investments in labor, services, goods, etc.
6) How taxes impact incentive to use financial leverage
7) How taxes impact optimal financial leverage point

[www.splotchy.com image 300x301] 

/seriously, I'm embarrassed for you

I'm sorry. I can't be an expert on everything.


Then why are you arguing these thins if you don't understand them?
 
2012-09-26 07:07:43 PM  

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: How is that a gaffe?
He is bringing tax rates down and reducing deductions. That means that the rich who take advantage of all these deductions will pay more an the middle class pays less. Isn't that what the left wants?

Well that's not true. The bug deduction Rich people use is capital gains and Romney is not going to cut that. So to get revenues everyone who has looked at this believe he will need to remove the mortgage deduction which will raise the actual taxes paid of the middle class.

He will raises taxes paid of the middle class and cut it even more for the rich.


He will be spending quality time with his dancing horses by later in November.
 
2012-09-26 07:09:12 PM  
adamgoodrich.com 

/Derpers gona derp.
 
2012-09-26 07:10:06 PM  

BSABSVR: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Mija: Oh come off it. I paid cash for my home and I make under $30,000 a year.

Where do you live!?

Scenic downtown Cleveland.


Ahh....I hear its lovely when the Lake starts on fire.
 
2012-09-26 07:11:18 PM  

mrshowrules: I alone am best: mrshowrules: I alone am best: mrshowrules: Slives: One thing that Republicans just don't seem to want to get is if there is no consumer demand for the products and services the company offers, there is not much incentive for them hire workers, no matter how low the tax rate is for them.

I've been told by top men that if rich people have more money they will hire more people to make stuff.

Because companies never try to branch out and find more profit. That's just unpossible, if they make cogs today they will make cogs tomorrow they would never try to make widgets. Look at Sony they only make the tr-55 transistor radio and they are doing just fine.

You have $10M in the bank. You think you can double that over 5 years by investing in a new cog. However, your tax rate on the profits has been doubled by Fartbongo (let's say 15% to 30%) so rather than make $7M in profit, you opt to bury your $10 in the back yard. That's the ticket.

Because if I try and I fail my profitable portion of the business is making less money due to higher taxes and my failing portion of the business is losing money that gives me less money to fall back on in case something happens to the profitable business. Thinking you can do something does not always equal success and companies are not guaranteed to succeed.

It is obvious you never ran a business. Please find me any citation by any business school or business theory which indicates that you consider your tax rate on profits as a consideration in how much you invest in expanding your business. Every model I`ve seen is all about where you can sell more and make more profit as the driver versus the investment cost. The tax rate at the back end is meaningless.


If your professors were telling you to use pre-tax dollars as probable cash flows in NPV analyses, they did you a great disservice. Fact is, if you change the tax rate, it affects the NPV of any project. If the NPV of a project goes negative because of a change in the tax rate, that project does not get a green light. Were all investment income equally taxable, it wouldn't matter. However, the presence of tax free bonds (as well as preferred stock dividends for corporations) means you have to use the tax rate in the analysis.
 
2012-09-26 07:12:11 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: How is that a gaffe?
He is bringing tax rates down and reducing deductions. That means that the rich who take advantage of all these deductions will pay more an the middle class pays less. Isn't that what the left wants?


He is raising taxes on middle income people by closign deductions they use, and lowering taxes on high income by cutting their rates. STOP SUPPORTING THIS. You cannot really want it, think about it ffs.. He is raising taxes on your mom to reduce them on himself. What kind of idiot are you?
 
2012-09-26 07:13:36 PM  
So in other words, you should be subsidizing your boss so that you can keep your job
 
2012-09-26 07:16:24 PM  

gaspode: tenpoundsofcheese: How is that a gaffe?
He is bringing tax rates down and reducing deductions. That means that the rich who take advantage of all these deductions will pay more an the middle class pays less. Isn't that what the left wants?

He is raising taxes on middle income people by closign deductions they use, and lowering taxes on high income by cutting their rates. STOP SUPPORTING THIS. You cannot really want it, think about it ffs.. He is raising taxes on your mom to reduce them on himself. What kind of idiot are you?


That's a loaded question. LOL.
 
2012-09-26 07:21:20 PM  
so he wants to simplify the tax code and eliminate special treatment for some types of taxpayers/spending?

i think its a good idea.
 
2012-09-26 07:22:46 PM  
Yet, somehow Obama saying "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam" doesn't make Fark. We need the political analyzer back.
 
2012-09-26 07:23:32 PM  

Ow! That was my feelings!: Cletus C.: Ow! That was my feelings!: Yeah, let's cut taxes some more! What could possibly go wrong?

[c498390.r90.cf2.rackcdn.com image 500x281]

//the Cult of the Tax Cut needs to diaf

Also, with more taxes we could spend twice as much!

wut? How does opposing more tax cuts lead to spending twice as much? How about this...

No more tax cuts until we pay OUR FARKING BILLS!!! That is something a TRUE fiscal conservative would support.  Like me.


It does so as a matter of precedence.
 
2012-09-26 07:29:43 PM  

Euell Gibbons: Yet, somehow Obama saying "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam" doesn't make Fark. We need the political analyzer back.



do you have a link to the entire speech?
 
2012-09-26 07:30:16 PM  

GF named my left testicle thundercles: so he wants to simplify the tax code and eliminate special treatment for some types of taxpayers/spending?

i think its a good idea.


Yeah, F*ck homeowners. What have they ever done for this country?
 
2012-09-26 07:31:50 PM  

impaler: By the way, don't be expecting a huge cut in taxes because I'm also going to lower deductions and exemptions. But by bringing rates down we will be able to let small businesses keep more of their money so they can hire more people."

1) Which deductions?
2) Businesses hire when they think the need workers to fill demand for their product.
3) If a business doesn't have money to hire, it isn't because of income taxes, because for every $1 they pay to employees, the amount of income they pay income taxes on is reduced by $1.


Almost exactly what I was thinking, but I'll add:

4) The person saying he wants to focus on small businesses (a fairly undefined term) also believes that 250k is a medium income. So I highly doubt he is really going to focus the elimination of deductions such that small businesses come out closer to big ones.
 
2012-09-26 07:33:07 PM  

I alone am best: Corvus:
So far everything you mentioned that business need a tax deduction on their rates are ALREADY TAX DEDUCTIBLE.

You don't get how taxes work. They are mostly on PROFITS for business. So pretending it is so a company can have more money to hire people, spend on equipment, or spend on employees is a lie.You don't know this about taxes?

What do you think companies pay people and do things with? Profits are where 100% of their expendable income comes from.

If a company is paying less in taxes then they are making more profits.


My ex-wife has a small business and the tax rate encourages her to hire people and buy new equipment. Every dollar she spends, reduces her tax liability.
 
2012-09-26 07:34:57 PM  

Don't Troll Me Bro!: Then why are you arguing these thins if you don't understand them?


Now now. Be fair. If he understood those things he wouldn't hold the position he's arguing, now would he?
 
2012-09-26 07:36:15 PM  

Isitoveryet: Euell Gibbons: Yet, somehow Obama saying "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam" doesn't make Fark. We need the political analyzer back.


do you have a link to the entire speech?


It's a speech decrying all forms of extremism. But I see the troll has taken it out of context.
 
2012-09-26 07:39:22 PM  

Corvus: tenpoundsofcheese: How is that a gaffe?
He is bringing tax rates down and reducing deductions. That means that the rich who take advantage of all these deductions will pay more an the middle class pays less. Isn't that what the left wants?

Well that's not true. The bug deduction Rich people use is capital gains and Romney is not going to cut that. So to get revenues everyone who has looked at this believe he will need to remove the mortgage deduction which will raise the actual taxes paid of the middle class.

He will raises taxes paid of the middle class and cut it even more for the rich.


Dude, look at who you're talking to. Why do you even try?
 
2012-09-26 07:40:35 PM  

Fart_Machine: Isitoveryet: Euell Gibbons: Yet, somehow Obama saying "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam" doesn't make Fark. We need the political analyzer back.


do you have a link to the entire speech?

It's a speech decrying all forms of extremism. But I see the troll has taken it out of context.


exactly. I was seeing if Euell was aware there were other things mentioned in the speech.

/thanks for the link too!
 
2012-09-26 07:46:40 PM  

Euell Gibbons: Yet, somehow Obama saying "The future must not belong to those who slander the prophet of Islam" doesn't make Fark. We need the political analyzer back.


Now that Obama has won the war on Christmas (Phase I), the war against Christianity has begun (Phase II).
 
2012-09-26 07:48:30 PM  

kevinfra: I alone am best: Corvus:
So far everything you mentioned that business need a tax deduction on their rates are ALREADY TAX DEDUCTIBLE.

You don't get how taxes work. They are mostly on PROFITS for business. So pretending it is so a company can have more money to hire people, spend on equipment, or spend on employees is a lie.You don't know this about taxes?

What do you think companies pay people and do things with? Profits are where 100% of their expendable income comes from.

If a company is paying less in taxes then they are making more profits.

My ex-wife has a small business and the tax rate encourages her to hire people and buy new equipment. Every dollar she spends, reduces her tax liability.


So a higher tax rate would sorta be an incentive to invest more back into the business.
 
2012-09-26 07:58:56 PM  

24.media.tumblr.com

 
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