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(Fox News)   Turns out that Mitt Romney pays a higher tax rate than 97% of you. Who are you going to believe, FoxNews backed up by the IRS, or your own 1040?   (foxnews.com) divider line 514
    More: Interesting, Mitt Romney, romney, Fox News, IRS, tax rates, Scott Pelley, Tax Foundation, capital gains taxes  
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4789 clicks; posted to Politics » on 26 Sep 2012 at 1:52 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



514 Comments   (+0 »)
   
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2012-09-26 10:07:20 AM  
Thanks, FOX News! Now I can just send a letter to the IRS telling them I've overpaid my taxes for years and ask when I should expect that refund.
 
2012-09-26 10:08:21 AM  
I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.
 
2012-09-26 10:09:29 AM  
OK, then he'll have no problem, you know, RELEASING THE PAPERWORK proving that, right? No?

Then you're still lying.
 
2012-09-26 10:09:37 AM  
yeah, and all those "poor" people have refrigerators and telephones, so they aren't really poor.
 
2012-09-26 10:10:28 AM  
FTA:

While Romney may or may not pay less than the average middle-class earner -- depending on how one defines middle class and how one defines tax rate -- one thing is clear: Romney does pay at a lower rate than the typical wealthy person.

SCIENCE!!
 
2012-09-26 10:10:37 AM  

Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.


Yeah, probably this.
 
2012-09-26 10:12:25 AM  

Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.


Effective tax rate, not including payroll tax.
 
vpb [TotalFark]
2012-09-26 10:14:32 AM  
My own 1040.
 
2012-09-26 10:14:37 AM  
"If we ignore all these taxes regular people pay, then Romney pays more"

There. I just saved everyone some time.
 
2012-09-26 10:16:39 AM  
Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.
 
2012-09-26 10:22:36 AM  

RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.


Well, that's clearly your own fault. Why don't you make most of your income the same way Romney does? Those loopholes are there for everyone you know.
 
2012-09-26 10:27:38 AM  

RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.


No dancing animals of any kind?
 
2012-09-26 10:29:08 AM  
I pay 17% in Federal taxes alone (just check last year's filing). And I make about 1 millionth of what he makes for just breathing (when he is reminded to breathe, that is). But you know what? I like having an FDA, EPA, air traffic controllers, a police department, a safety net for people who need it, etc.

Sure that a-hole pays more in absolute terms. HE SHOULD! He uses proportionally more of society's stuff (roads, air space, public services, etc.) to make his money and exist, then he OWES more. Hell, he owes extra for forcing people onto unemployment and welfare every time he bankrupted a company. He also owes pain and suffering to the communities he RAPED when Bain came calling.

/He also owes a crap ton just for the disposal of his batteries.
 
2012-09-26 10:34:32 AM  
Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.
 
2012-09-26 11:23:22 AM  

GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.


Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.
 
2012-09-26 11:30:11 AM  

netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.


Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?
 
2012-09-26 11:48:07 AM  

mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?


Ahh, the politics of jealousy.
 
2012-09-26 11:50:58 AM  
The problem isn't that he pays a low tax rate. It's that he pays a low tax rate and he wants to change the rules to lower it even more. I can't begrudge someone for playing the game, but trying to change the rulebook so that you have an even easier time winning is bullshiat.
 
2012-09-26 11:52:49 AM  

netizencain: mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?

Ahh, the politics of jealousy.


Make it party neutral. If you start a war, you have to pay for it. Fair?
 
2012-09-26 12:03:37 PM  
GAT_00 2012-09-26 10:34:32 AM

[codswallop]

You're certainly holding that dick to be self evident there.

Why don't you let go of it?
 
2012-09-26 12:06:07 PM  
Fox really is trying to disguise the fact that Mitt Romney sends a smaller portion of his income to the IRS than most middle class Americans.

When they're trying to make taxes look oppressive, Fox "News" will be certain to include payroll taxes, excise taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes and every other tax they can think of. Taxed Enough Already!

But, if they talk about all those taxes in this case, it makes Romney look bad. So, they have to rejigger their formula. Suddenly, ONLY federal income taxes count.

Seriously, how dumb do you have to be not to notice that? Or, how brainwashed do you have to be not to care?
 
2012-09-26 12:10:05 PM  

netizencain: mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?

Ahh, the politics of jealousy.


When your argument devolves into Honey Boo Boo territory ("You jelly")... you might want to reconsider it.
 
2012-09-26 12:12:02 PM  
The claim, though, is open to debate. It only holds up in a particular scenario in which both income and all payroll taxes are counted.


WTF is this shat?

Ah yes, the "particular scenario" better known as "the real world."
 
2012-09-26 12:14:56 PM  

Coolfusis: Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.

Effective tax rate, not including payroll tax.


It's true. If you ignore some federal taxes that someone making $50,000 pays, they don't have a higher federal tax rate.
 
2012-09-26 12:19:11 PM  

netizencain: Ahh, the politics of jealousy.


Who ARE you? You aren't new around here but I've only recently noticed your terrible posts
 
2012-09-26 12:27:28 PM  

impaler: The claim, though, is open to debate. It only holds up in a particular scenario in which both income and all payroll taxes are counted.


WTF is this shat?

Ah yes, the "particular scenario" better known as "the real world."


Harmonizing the statistical quirks is hard.
 
2012-09-26 12:33:32 PM  

netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.


And what makes you think you are?

Kittypie070: GAT_00 2012-09-26 10:34:32 AM

[codswallop]

You're certainly holding that dick to be self evident there.

Why don't you let go of it?


The f*ck is this?
 
2012-09-26 12:54:41 PM  
The president's campaign presumably is referring to Romney's release last week of his 2011 tax returns, which showed he paid an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent.

yeah, but Romney didn't take advantage of all the tax breaks to which he was entitled...and according to his own words, anyone who pays more taxes than he has to is an idiot.
 
2012-09-26 12:58:40 PM  

Weaver95: The president's campaign presumably is referring to Romney's release last week of his 2011 tax returns, which showed he paid an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent.

yeah, but Romney didn't take advantage of all the tax breaks to which he was entitled...and according to his own words, anyone who pays more taxes than he has to is an idiot "if I had paid more [taxes] than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."


Now with actual quote goodness.
 
2012-09-26 01:00:51 PM  

eraser8: Weaver95: The president's campaign presumably is referring to Romney's release last week of his 2011 tax returns, which showed he paid an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent.

yeah, but Romney didn't take advantage of all the tax breaks to which he was entitled...and according to his own words, anyone who pays more taxes than he has to is an idiot "if I had paid more [taxes] than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

Now with actual quote goodness.


well yeah, that too. the POINT here is that Romney (again!) contradicts himself. I just don't understand how he can keep making statements like this. it's election 101 stuff, Romney is tripping on his own feet.
 
2012-09-26 01:42:07 PM  

eraser8: Weaver95: The president's campaign presumably is referring to Romney's release last week of his 2011 tax returns, which showed he paid an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent.

yeah, but Romney didn't take advantage of all the tax breaks to which he was entitled...and according to his own words, anyone who pays more taxes than he has to is an idiot "if I had paid more [taxes] than are legally due I don't think I'd be qualified to become president."

Now with actual quote goodness.


Yeah but everyone in the world knows that he'll just file an amended return next year.
 
2012-09-26 01:48:48 PM  
His argument is that the money has already been taxed at the corporate level "at up to 35%"... but it's been shown that any corporation that actually pays a 35% tax rate needs to fire its accountant. GE, Exxon and all that.
 
2012-09-26 01:55:33 PM  
Sure on the income that he paid taxes on.......in the years he'll show us which coincide with when he started running for President.
 
2012-09-26 01:56:47 PM  
"Fox News Fact Check" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha
 
2012-09-26 01:57:00 PM  

Weaver95: The president's campaign presumably is referring to Romney's release last week of his 2011 tax returns, which showed he paid an effective tax rate of 14.1 percent.

yeah, but Romney didn't take advantage of all the tax breaks to which he was entitled...and according to his own words, anyone who pays more taxes than he has to is an idiot.


he got that right
 
2012-09-26 01:57:12 PM  
I actually pay a higher percentage rate than Romney does.

Also would like to see how much taxes he paid on the Romney illegally held in Swiss bank accounts before 2009 amnesty program that he is hiding.
 
2012-09-26 01:58:42 PM  

impaler: The claim, though, is open to debate. It only holds up in a particular scenario in which both income and all payroll taxes are counted.


WTF is this shat?

Ah yes, the "particular scenario" better known as "the real world."


Right! On what planet would these two NOT be included?
 
2012-09-26 01:58:46 PM  

mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?


reverse that and we got ourselves a deal
 
2012-09-26 01:59:27 PM  
Fox News, We Distort You Obey!
 
2012-09-26 01:59:46 PM  

netizencain: mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?

Ahh, the politics of jealousy.



Exactly, you're jealous of the wealth they control so you want to treat them with kid gloves.
 
2012-09-26 01:59:55 PM  

Corvus: I actually pay a higher percentage rate than Romney does.

Also would like to see how much taxes he paid on the Romney illegally held in Swiss bank accounts before 2009 amnesty program that he is hiding.


dude's rich but not to the extent we can start calling "money" "Romney" now.
 
2012-09-26 01:59:55 PM  
And I keep repeating myself. This has nothing to do with Mitt Romney's tax rate. This has EVERYTHING to do with he refusal to show 2002-2009 returns.
 
2012-09-26 02:00:16 PM  
timujin

His argument is that the money has already been taxed at the corporate level "at up to 35%"... but it's been shown that any corporation that actually pays a 35% tax rate needs to fire its accountant. GE, Exxon and all that.



Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!
 
2012-09-26 02:00:46 PM  

eraser8: When they're trying to make taxes look oppressive, Fox "News" will be certain to include payroll taxes, excise taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes and every other tax they can think of. Taxed Enough Already!


Don't forget, the penalty for declining healthcare insurance is also a tax when you're complaining about taxes, but a fee when you're asking the Supreme Court to overturn it.
 
2012-09-26 02:01:21 PM  
IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent. Even someone making between $100,000 and $200,000 pays a 12.1 percent rate -- also lower than Romney's.

Bullshiat, I pay ~15% and I have the 1040 to prove it.
 
2012-09-26 02:01:22 PM  

netizencain: Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.



Oh look I found out where you get your politics from

"prior-Military now working on oil tankers."
 
2012-09-26 02:01:29 PM  
Fox News is the Corporate equivalent of Alex Jones
 
2012-09-26 02:01:35 PM  
Spin spin spin.

the bottom line is Romney, a multi millionaire, pays less a percentage then someone who actually works for a living. That's just wrong, and that situation needs to be fixed.
 
2012-09-26 02:01:59 PM  
when is a tax not a tax? when FOX News is trying to SPIN BABY SPIN!!!
 
2012-09-26 02:02:03 PM  
The campaign likely is trying to make the point that Romney's income -- at least the huge chunk of it that is derived from investments -- is taxed at a 15 percent rate, while others who earn their money from a paycheck are taxed at marginal income rates going all the way up to 35 percent.

The latter percentage, though, comes down once deductions and exemptions are included. The Tax Foundation estimated in a report in January that Romney's rate in 2010 -- which was also about 14 percent -- was higher than what 97 percent of Americans pay.


You mean the exemptions and deductions Romney is trying to put an end to?
 
2012-09-26 02:02:08 PM  

karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!



Luckily taxes are not based on the amount but rather percentages. Why do you hate America?
 
2012-09-26 02:02:45 PM  

Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.


Percentages vs. total amount - you can't explain that.
 
2012-09-26 02:03:24 PM  

Jackson Herring: netizencain: Ahh, the politics of jealousy.

Who ARE you? You aren't new around here but I've only recently noticed your terrible posts


It's hard to believe people actually preplant sh*tty troll accounts. That requires a level of foresight I just can't attribute to your average a-hole. So it's one of two things: a concerted plant by an interested party (a paid shill), or some idiot with an account he registered a long time ago that mostly just lurks.

I'm going with the latter, because tin foil is hard on my sensitive skin.
 
2012-09-26 02:03:25 PM  
It's true...


imageshack.us



from a certain point of view.
 
2012-09-26 02:03:36 PM  
The claim, though, is open to debate. It only holds up in a particular scenario in which both income and all payroll taxes are counted.


That's kind of the point.
 
2012-09-26 02:04:11 PM  

Altair: "Fox News Fact Check" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha


this ^^^^

ever since the big fact check upset of the GOP & DNC conventions, i've noticed FOX has started putting "FACT CHECK" in their headlines.

i suppose to fool their audience that they are a qualified nonpartisan fact check organization.
 
2012-09-26 02:04:26 PM  

Kittypie070: GAT_00 2012-09-26 10:34:32 AM

[codswallop]

You're certainly holding that dick to be self evident there.

Why don't you let go of it?


When did you join the derp squad, Kittypie?
 
2012-09-26 02:05:41 PM  

intelligent comment below: karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!


Luckily taxes are not based on the amount but rather percentages. Why do you hate America?


I know! Let's tax the lower incomes at 100%, have the higher incomes reimburse them for the taxes. That way, the wealthy will pay very little, the lower incomes will effectively pay no taxes and we've solved the budget deficit!

/shiat is paid for in percentages, right?
 
2012-09-26 02:05:46 PM  

eraser8: Fox really is trying to disguise the fact that Mitt Romney sends a smaller portion of his income to the IRS than most middle class Americans.

When they're trying to make taxes look oppressive, Fox "News" will be certain to include payroll taxes, excise taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes and every other tax they can think of. Taxed Enough Already!

But, if they talk about all those taxes in this case, it makes Romney look bad. So, they have to rejigger their formula. Suddenly, ONLY federal income taxes count.

Seriously, how dumb do you have to be not to notice that? Or, how brainwashed do you have to be not to care?


We had this discussion yesterday when someone or other linked to all those stupid charts. OF COURSE Romney pays taxes at a higher percentage than the rest of us--the Federal income tax is designed that way (i.e. a "progressive" tax).

What matter is what percentage of his TOTAL INCOME went to taxes, and I'll guarantee without looking he paid less relative to his income than people who pay taxes at a lower RATE but don't have the luxury of lots of deductions and the ability to pay tax wizards who can disappear income with a wave of an eraser.

/not you, I don't think they're waving you around.
 
2012-09-26 02:06:01 PM  

Bmore O's: And I keep repeating myself. This has nothing to do with Mitt Romney's tax rate. This has EVERYTHING to do with he refusal to show 2002-2009 returns.


Romney is hiding the fact that before 2010 he paid a reasonable level of income tax, donated to a range of charities besides his own corporate church entity, and regularized his tax havens by paying the full amount owed without exploiting the amnesty, all of which would make him look like a gullible fool in the eyes of his backers.
 
2012-09-26 02:06:36 PM  

mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?


I would prefer they switch, is that an option?
 
2012-09-26 02:06:38 PM  

Snapper Carr: It's true...


[imageshack.us image 400x300]

from a certain point of view.


4.bp.blogspot.com

This man has no dick.
 
2012-09-26 02:06:59 PM  
intelligent comment below

karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!


Luckily taxes are not based on the amount but rather percentages. Why do you hate America?


Not America.....just you.
 
2012-09-26 02:08:01 PM  
Farking hate it when Fox, or anyone else, puts a question as a headline for a "news" report.
"Fact Check: Is your mother a farking whore???"
 
2012-09-26 02:08:04 PM  
If I could deduct the cost of my cats as a medical cost I might be able to show a lower rate too.
 
2012-09-26 02:08:24 PM  

Antimatter: Spin spin spin.

the bottom line is Romney, a multi millionaire, pays less a percentage then someone who actually works for a living. That's just wrong, and that situation needs to be fixed.


Not to mention that Rmoney says people should "want to pay taxes" when referring to those who do not earn enough to be taxed then in the other says "nobody wants to pay taxes and I pay the minimum"
 
2012-09-26 02:08:33 PM  

RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.


I'm in close to the same boat. Around 20% in federal income tax. Around 26% if you count payroll taxes. I also makes 177 times less than Mitt. That's just screwed up.
 
2012-09-26 02:08:49 PM  

Jairzinho: Farking hate it when Fox, or anyone else, puts a question as a headline for a "news" report.
"Fact Check: Is your mother a farking whore???"


"Would you be more or less likely to vote for Sen. McCain if you knew that he fathered a black child?"
 
2012-09-26 02:09:12 PM  
From TFA:

"The claim, though, is open to debate. It only holds up in a particular scenario in which both income and all payroll taxes are counted."

Um, that's exactly Obama's point, you f'ing GOP shrill windbags.
 
2012-09-26 02:09:58 PM  

Invisible Dynamite Monkey: RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.

I'm in close to the same boat. Around 20% in federal income tax. Around 26% if you count payroll taxes. I also makes 177 times less than Mitt. That's just screwed up.


yay parabolic income taxes!
 
2012-09-26 02:10:08 PM  

Rich Cream: If I could deduct the cost of my cats as a medical cost I might be able to show a lower rate too.


Depression, or the prevention of, or the treatment of, is not a big deal compared to MS. (Checks stats.) Oh, I see. That would totally deplete the IRS coffers.
 
2012-09-26 02:10:27 PM  

Isitoveryet: Altair: "Fox News Fact Check" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha

this ^^^^

ever since the big fact check upset of the GOP & DNC conventions, i've noticed FOX has started putting "FACT CHECK" in their headlines.

i suppose to fool their audience that they are a qualified nonpartisan fact check organization.



FACT CHECK:
 
2012-09-26 02:10:31 PM  
Lets see 10 years Mitt

media.nj.com
 
2012-09-26 02:10:39 PM  

skullkrusher: yeah, but Romney didn't take advantage of all the tax breaks to which he was entitled...and according to his own words, anyone who pays more taxes than he has to is an idiot.

he got that right


but if you are rich and advocate for higher taxes for the rich you should instead donate to the IRS or something.
 
2012-09-26 02:10:44 PM  
Why don't we just believe the Romney campaign, which stated that they under-claimed their deductions so that they could raise their effective tax rate to be more in line with average Americans.

Oh wait, that goes off-script for Fox. Can't have that. Roll the airplane window down and throw that tax return out, please.
 
2012-09-26 02:11:15 PM  

karnal: timujin

His argument is that the money has already been taxed at the corporate level "at up to 35%"... but it's been shown that any corporation that actually pays a 35% tax rate needs to fire its accountant. GE, Exxon and all that.


Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!


Yea, imagine that. Asking a guy who makes 20 million for doing absolutely nothing to pay more in taxes.
 
2012-09-26 02:11:36 PM  
"Without disputing that claim, Romney said it was fair and explained: "It is a low rate. And one of the reasons why the capital gains tax rate is lower is because capital has already been taxed once at the corporate level, as high as 35 percent."


A totally false argument. The vast majority of workers are employed by private sector corporations which ALSO paid their corporate taxes (supposedly 35% but we all know they weasle out to less) which leaves them with less to pay YOU with. Do you think that argument works for the employee? Oh, sorry IRS I don't have to pay your taxes because my employer paid me with money that was already taxed once.

Bullshiat.
 
2012-09-26 02:11:48 PM  
This is news? I thought everyone already knew that a dollar remitted to the feeds in income taxes is worth at least 47% more than dollars paid in income taxes, as the former are job-creating dollars.
 
2012-09-26 02:12:16 PM  
As a lifelong prole, I don't care that there is a class of people who make more money in a year than I could ever spend in a lifetime.

What I mind is when I begin to doubt that the members of said class are any more apt than I am at running a business/government/game of duck-duck-goose.

Listen up, rich folks. Stop whining about your tax rates and start sending your children to West Point and Annapolis again. If you're going to act like an aristocracy, you'd better be willing to take on the burdens that that come with it, complete with falling on your sword if you fark everything up.
 
2012-09-26 02:12:35 PM  

Shadowknight: OK, then he'll have no problem, you know, RELEASING THE PAPERWORK proving that, right? No?

Then you're still lying.


Ahhhh...guilty until proven innocent. The American way.
 
2012-09-26 02:12:47 PM  

karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!


And I pay more in property taxes in a year than someone who rents pays in their life time!! such injustice!
 
2012-09-26 02:12:49 PM  
Feds, not feeds. Grr.
 
2012-09-26 02:13:09 PM  

skullkrusher: 100%



derp
 
2012-09-26 02:13:11 PM  
karnal
Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!

Romneybot's got so much cash stashed away that he probably doesn't even notice that seemingly huge amount of tax he pays, whereas a real working person is keenly aware of every dollar they have (and all the ones they don't), and that smaller amount - which may end up being a higher percentage of their income - might mean the difference between bare subsistence living and the odd perk to make life less dreary.
 
2012-09-26 02:13:14 PM  
I just fired up my tax software and grabbed the following two numbers from my TY 2011 1040: (1) Line 37, Adjusted Gross Income and (2) Line 61, Total Tax. I divided the latter by the former and came up with 14%.

I make a good living, but Mitt's is many orders of magnitude better than mine. I'm also reaping the good side of a loss carry-over I took when the market tanked, so my rate is a bit artificially low. There's no way I should be paying a point more than him.
 
2012-09-26 02:14:16 PM  

Shadowknight: Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.

Yeah, probably this.


There is this new idea going around called reading the farking article.

The irs provides effective tax rates by quintiles. 80% of the populace has an effective rate around 14% or lower. This includes payroll taxes. Yes this is in reference to federal taxes, know time idiot will say but state and local.
 
2012-09-26 02:14:25 PM  

karnal: Not America.....just you.



You hate America's laws and basic economic foundation including all the New Deal policies that allowed you and your family to live a comfortable life. You also have a bizarre hatred for everyone not a wacko conservative. But you don't hate America?
 
2012-09-26 02:14:40 PM  
theknuckler_33


karnal: timujin

His argument is that the money has already been taxed at the corporate level "at up to 35%"... but it's been shown that any corporation that actually pays a 35% tax rate needs to fire its accountant. GE, Exxon and all that.


Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!

Yea, imagine that. Asking a guy who makes 20 million for doing absolutely nothing to pay more in taxes.


He makes 20 million by doing nothing? No wonder you are jealous of him......Maybe Obama built his empire for him?
 
2012-09-26 02:15:48 PM  

sinanju: I just fired up my tax software and grabbed the following two numbers from my TY 2011 1040: (1) Line 37, Adjusted Gross Income and (2) Line 61, Total Tax. I divided the latter by the former and came up with 14%.

I make a good living, but Mitt's is many orders of magnitude better than mine. I'm also reaping the good side of a loss carry-over I took when the market tanked, so my rate is a bit artificially low. There's no way I should be paying a point more than him.


Oh... and I should point out that Mrs Sinanju is working on a startup and is not currently cash-flow positive.
 
2012-09-26 02:16:04 PM  

skullkrusher: yay parabolic income taxes!



What a coincidence when you're in here thread shiatting again, there are so many trolls doing the same thing.
 
2012-09-26 02:17:03 PM  

karnal: Probably pays makes more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime


Yeah, tax fairness is a biatch.
 
2012-09-26 02:17:12 PM  

GAT_00:

The f*ck is this?


Okay, I've been waffling on adding you to my faves list (of which there are three since 2007) for a year now, and that sealed it. What color do you want?
 
2012-09-26 02:17:42 PM  

skullkrusher: Corvus: I actually pay a higher percentage rate than Romney does.

Also would like to see how much taxes he paid on the Romney illegally held in Swiss bank accounts before 2009 amnesty program that he is hiding.

dude's rich but not to the extent we can start calling "money" "Romney" now.


www.chicagonow.com
 
2012-09-26 02:19:09 PM  

karnal: He makes 20 million by doing nothing? No wonder you are jealous of him......Maybe Obama built his empire for him?



Nah, he's a real true American patriot. He took his daddies money and connections and sat back while the company offshored jobs to cheap labor havens and ran American companies into the ground with massive debt. Then they took all those profits and hid them offshore away from the country that gave him all these opportunities and you consider that patriotic and wonderful.

We get it, you're jealous of his wealth and will justify anything and everything a rich Republican does.
 
2012-09-26 02:19:25 PM  
Romney will be remembered in perpetuity as the guy who ran for POTUS so that he could give himself a tax break.
 
2012-09-26 02:19:43 PM  

Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: I actually pay a higher percentage rate than Romney does.

Also would like to see how much taxes he paid on the Romney illegally held in Swiss bank accounts before 2009 amnesty program that he is hiding.

dude's rich but not to the extent we can start calling "money" "Romney" now.

[www.chicagonow.com image 500x399]


love that pic
 
2012-09-26 02:20:12 PM  

coeyagi: Depression, or the prevention of, or the treatment of, is not a big deal compared to MS. (Checks stats.) Oh, I see. That would totally deplete the IRS coffers.


My depression shows that much you respond directly toward it?

/that makes me sad
 
2012-09-26 02:20:24 PM  

intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: yay parabolic income taxes!


What a coincidence when you're in here thread shiatting again, there are so many trolls doing the same thing.


is the issue that you didn't note the sarcasm in my "yay" or do you not know what a parabola looks like?
 
2012-09-26 02:20:55 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Jackson Herring: netizencain: Ahh, the politics of jealousy.

Who ARE you? You aren't new around here but I've only recently noticed your terrible posts

It's hard to believe people actually preplant sh*tty troll accounts. That requires a level of foresight I just can't attribute to your average a-hole. So it's one of two things: a concerted plant by an interested party (a paid shill), or some idiot with an account he registered a long time ago that mostly just lurks.

I'm going with the latter, because tin foil is hard on my sensitive skin.


Well, if you had a bunch of astroturf warehoused, would you expose it to the elements before someone was willing to pay for it?
 
2012-09-26 02:20:59 PM  
Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)
 
2012-09-26 02:21:01 PM  

intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: 100%


derp


well said. You truly support your Fark handle daily
 
2012-09-26 02:22:25 PM  

Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)


exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.
 
2012-09-26 02:23:04 PM  
Every American who works pays at least 15.3% of their income to the federal government in the form of payroll taxes.

Mitt Romney does not, because payroll taxes do not apply to investments.
 
2012-09-26 02:23:08 PM  

Isitoveryet: Altair: "Fox News Fact Check" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha

this ^^^^

ever since the big fact check upset of the GOP & DNC conventions, i've noticed FOX has started putting "FACT CHECK" in their headlines.

i suppose to fool their audience that they are a qualified nonpartisan fact check organization.


Fooling Fox News viewers? That's unpossible!
 
2012-09-26 02:23:15 PM  

skullkrusher: intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: yay parabolic income taxes!


What a coincidence when you're in here thread shiatting again, there are so many trolls doing the same thing.

is the issue that you didn't note the sarcasm in my "yay" or do you not know what a parabola looks like?


He probably doesn't know what a single bola looks like much less a pair of em.
 
2012-09-26 02:23:15 PM  

skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.


Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.
 
2012-09-26 02:23:50 PM  
Hey, everyone. Kittypie070 thinks Romney pays too much in taxes compared to the rest of us.

Bless her heart.
 
2012-09-26 02:24:05 PM  

Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.


well stop the motherfarking presses ;)
 
2012-09-26 02:24:05 PM  
Ok call it a day guys, me and skullkrusher fixed the income tax system!

Congress can now go home!
 
2012-09-26 02:24:12 PM  

karnal: timujin

His argument is that the money has already been taxed at the corporate level "at up to 35%"... but it's been shown that any corporation that actually pays a 35% tax rate needs to fire its accountant. GE, Exxon and all that.


Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!


And makes more money off of capital gains, money that he personally lobbied to be taxed at a lower rate, than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.
 
2012-09-26 02:24:42 PM  

skullkrusher: Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.

well stop the motherfarking presses ;)


I agree with you when you are right. It's just that doesn't happen that often. :)
 
2012-09-26 02:25:26 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Jackson Herring: netizencain: Ahh, the politics of jealousy.

Who ARE you? You aren't new around here but I've only recently noticed your terrible posts

It's hard to believe people actually preplant sh*tty troll accounts. That requires a level of foresight I just can't attribute to your average a-hole. So it's one of two things: a concerted plant by an interested party (a paid shill), or some idiot with an account he registered a long time ago that mostly just lurks.

I'm going with the latter, because tin foil is hard on my sensitive skin.

Well, if you had a bunch of astroturf warehoused, would you expose it to the elements before someone was willing to pay for it?


But what's the ROI on something like that around here? Every time some half-assed "conservative" pops up and derps around a little bit he gets gang-raped and covered in fact-splooge. What kind of fool would pay money for a troll soaked in liberal fact-splooge?
 
2012-09-26 02:26:11 PM  

Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.

well stop the motherfarking presses ;)

I agree with you when you are right. It's just that doesn't happen that often. :)


only difference is this time you understand why I'm right ;)
 
2012-09-26 02:27:02 PM  

Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.


I agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.
 
2012-09-26 02:27:08 PM  

skullkrusher: Invisible Dynamite Monkey: RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.

I'm in close to the same boat. Around 20% in federal income tax. Around 26% if you count payroll taxes. I also makes 177 times less than Mitt. That's just screwed up.

yay parabolic income taxes!


Actually, speaking of that, I've just passed the maximum taxable rate for payroll taxes so with each raise I'm effectively taxed less. That just doesn't make any sense.
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-09-26 02:27:19 PM  
They must of used Breitbart as a 2nd source.
 
2012-09-26 02:27:45 PM  
chrispiascik.com
 
2012-09-26 02:28:24 PM  

Whiskey Pete: i suppose to fool their audience that they are a qualified nonpartisan fact check organization.

Fooling Fox News viewers? That's unpossible!


There's an old saying in Tennessee - I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee - that says, fool me once, shame on - shame on you. Fool me - you can't get fooled again.
 
2012-09-26 02:28:24 PM  
How long until we hear the "pay no taxes" qualifications include ignoring earned income taxes along with payroll and state & local taxes?

"The fact is 98% of Americans pay no federal long term capital gains income taxes. We as a nation need to reject this society of moochers and make sure everyone has skin in the game!"
 
2012-09-26 02:29:14 PM  

RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.


That's not completely accurate. Everyone gets to take a standard deduction and at least one personal exemption for themselves. Last year, the standard deduction for a single person was $5950 and the personal exemption was $3800. This means that you would have subtracted out almost $10,000 in deductions. If you didn't do this - you didn't do your taxes correctly.
 
2012-09-26 02:29:25 PM  
intelligent comment below

karnal: He makes 20 million by doing nothing? No wonder you are jealous of him......Maybe Obama built his empire for him?


Nah, he's a real true American patriot. He took his daddies money and connections and sat back while the company offshored jobs to cheap labor havens and ran American companies into the ground with massive debt. Then they took all those profits and hid them offshore away from the country that gave him all these opportunities and you consider that patriotic and wonderful.

We get it, you're jealous of his wealth and will justify anything and everything a rich Republican does.



Is uninformed the same as stupid? In your case, yes it is....can't even get your facts straight.
Romney was already a wealthy man by the time his father died in 1995. He did receive an inheritance but gave it away to charity.

Ignorance is a strenght, right-right?
 
2012-09-26 02:30:13 PM  

GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.


Very subjective opinion. What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis. They largely determine how much benefit the individual is eligible for from those programs. Should we also count 401k and other contributions to savings?
 
2012-09-26 02:30:14 PM  

Corvus: Ok call it a day guys, me and skullkrusher fixed the income tax system!

Congress can now go home!


actually & unsurprisingly, they are home today, I wish we all had their schedule & pay rate.
 
2012-09-26 02:30:14 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.

I agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.


the 150k cap mentioned would be more beneficial to middle class people because a summer home or an investment property or a car or boat or whatever could be sold without incurring those higher taxes...
 
2012-09-26 02:30:43 PM  

intelligent comment below: karnal: He makes 20 million by doing nothing? No wonder you are jealous of him......Maybe Obama built his empire for him?


Nah, he's a real true American patriot. He took his daddies money and connections and sat back while the company offshored jobs to cheap labor havens and ran American companies into the ground with massive debt. Then they took all those profits and hid them offshore away from the country that gave him all these opportunities and you consider that patriotic and wonderful.

We get it, you're jealous of his wealth and will justify anything and everything a rich Republican does.


I here I thought they were just jealous of people on welfare and food stamps that have such wonderful lives living at the bottom of the barrel eating free cheese.
 
2012-09-26 02:30:54 PM  

mrshowrules: Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?


Did you forget all the libs that voted for that war in Congress? Ah liberal forgetfulness....
 
d23 [TotalFark]
2012-09-26 02:31:30 PM  

karnal: intelligent comment below

karnal: He makes 20 million by doing nothing? No wonder you are jealous of him......Maybe Obama built his empire for him?


Nah, he's a real true American patriot. He took his daddies money and connections and sat back while the company offshored jobs to cheap labor havens and ran American companies into the ground with massive debt. Then they took all those profits and hid them offshore away from the country that gave him all these opportunities and you consider that patriotic and wonderful.

We get it, you're jealous of his wealth and will justify anything and everything a rich Republican does.


Is uninformed the same as stupid? In your case, yes it is....can't even get your facts straight.
Romney was already a wealthy man by the time his father died in 1995. He did receive an inheritance but gave it away to charity.

Ignorance is a strenght, right-right?


So farking what.

He made his money by kicking other people the curb.

Rich != successful.
 
2012-09-26 02:31:49 PM  

Invisible Dynamite Monkey: skullkrusher: Invisible Dynamite Monkey: RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.

I'm in close to the same boat. Around 20% in federal income tax. Around 26% if you count payroll taxes. I also makes 177 times less than Mitt. That's just screwed up.

yay parabolic income taxes!

Actually, speaking of that, I've just passed the maximum taxable rate for payroll taxes so with each raise I'm effectively taxed less. That just doesn't make any sense.


it does when you consider that SS benefits are capped.
 
2012-09-26 02:32:00 PM  

Headso: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.

I agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.

the 150k cap mentioned would be more beneficial to middle class people because a summer home or an investment property or a car or boat or whatever could be sold without incurring those higher taxes...


Perhaps you get one exclusion per year?
 
2012-09-26 02:32:04 PM  
I pay a higher % of taxes than Romney does, and I have my entire life.

And he makes somewhere in the range of 100-1000 times what I do, on average over those years.
 
2012-09-26 02:32:28 PM  

James F. Campbell: Hey, everyone. Kittypie070 thinks Romney pays too much in taxes compared to the rest of us.

Bless her heart.


the fark are you doing
 
2012-09-26 02:32:48 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.


Correct.
 
2012-09-26 02:33:06 PM  

Headso: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.

I agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.

the 150k cap mentioned would be more beneficial to middle class people because a summer home or an investment property or a car or boat or whatever could be sold without incurring those higher taxes...


ok, so sale of a primary residence doesn't count towards the cap and there's a $150k limit after which cap gains are taxed at marginal rates.
Fixed.
 
2012-09-26 02:33:45 PM  

Jackson Herring: James F. Campbell: Hey, everyone. Kittypie070 thinks Romney pays too much in taxes compared to the rest of us.

Bless her heart.

the fark are you doing


making an ass of himself? It's kind of his thing.
 
2012-09-26 02:34:01 PM  

yelmrog: As a lifelong prole, I don't care that there is a class of people who make more money in a year than I could ever spend in a lifetime.

What I mind is when I begin to doubt that the members of said class are any more apt than I am at running a business/government/game of duck-duck-goose.

Listen up, rich folks. Stop whining about your tax rates and start sending your children to West Point and Annapolis again. If you're going to act like an aristocracy, you'd better be willing to take on the burdens that that come with it, complete with falling on your sword if you fark everything up.


Nooooo!
There's already a snobby upperclass asshole problem in Annapolis! Please don't send more!

/love my hometown, hate most of the people
//most
///Swampcandy!
 
2012-09-26 02:34:50 PM  

skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.


No it doesn't, at least in regard to corporate investments, which are already taxed at corporate rates. You are smart enough to know that.

Income from an investment in a corporation is taxed at a statutory rate of 35%, (25% average effective rate). Then the 75 cents left over gets taxed at 15%, resulting in an all in rate of 36%, higher than ordinary rates.
 
2012-09-26 02:35:40 PM  

skullkrusher: Headso: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.

I agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.

the 150k cap mentioned would be more beneficial to middle class people because a summer home or an investment property or a car or boat or whatever could be sold without incurring those higher taxes...

ok, so sale of a primary residence doesn't count towards the cap and there's a $150k limit after which cap gains are taxed at marginal rates.
Fixed.


now I would be curious what kind of income a taxation scheme like that would bring in for revenue.
 
2012-09-26 02:37:49 PM  
Also, while we're deciding to ignore certain taxes in order to fit a narrative, anyone want to discuss how much Romney pays on money he makes overseas?

dailydish.typepad.com
 
2012-09-26 02:37:56 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

No it doesn't


if your goal is some odd form of fairness then it doesn't if your goal is a robust middle class and poor people with discretionary income it makes sense.
 
2012-09-26 02:38:52 PM  

Altair: "Fox News Fact Check" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha


Stop breaking mobile formatting!
 
2012-09-26 02:39:28 PM  

Mitt Romneys Tax Return: I agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.


and raising the top marginal rate is just a scam to make people think the rich are paying more. They don't pay that rate, the mostly pay capital gains.
 
2012-09-26 02:40:03 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

No it doesn't, at least in regard to corporate investments, which are already taxed at corporate rates. You are smart enough to know that.

Income from an investment in a corporation is taxed at a statutory rate of 35%, (25% average effective rate). Then the 75 cents left over gets taxed at 15%, resulting in an all in rate of 36%, higher than ordinary rates.


sure it does. It sounds perfectly reasonable. You are assuming that $1 in revenues translates to ($1 - (r* $1))/outstanding shares in stock price gains. That's the only way your quibble makes any sense.
 
2012-09-26 02:40:18 PM  

justtray: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.

Correct.


Especially when you consider that 100 years ago capital gains were taxed as income (damn rentseekers) and wages were not taxed AT ALL.

Now, wages are taxed the most and capital gains are no longer considered income.

georgebushIscrewedyouall.jpg
 
2012-09-26 02:40:38 PM  

Grungehamster: Also, while we're deciding to ignore certain taxes in order to fit a narrative, anyone want to discuss how much Romney pays on money he makes overseas?

[dailydish.typepad.com image 300x419]


no. Who cares?
 
2012-09-26 02:40:47 PM  

NateGrey: [chrispiascik.com image 850x541]


dear god that is awesome
 
2012-09-26 02:41:09 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: Well, if you had a bunch of astroturf warehoused, would you expose it to the elements before someone was willing to pay for it?

But what's the ROI on something like that around here? Every time some half-assed "conservative" pops up and derps around a little bit he gets gang-raped and covered in fact-splooge. What kind of fool would pay money for a troll soaked in liberal fact-splooge?



Probably a package deal. They may have had to pay for the fark troll to get the twitter followers.
 
2012-09-26 02:41:26 PM  

I_Hate_Iowa: Altair: "Fox News Fact Check" hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah ahahaha

Stop breaking mobile formatting!


Seconded!
 
2012-09-26 02:41:39 PM  

netizencain: mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?

Ahh, the politics of jealousy.



www.theworkofgod.org


"Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God."



i173.photobucket.com

"Y'all jus' jealous!" 

/ahh the politics of Maury
//I prefer baby Jesus
 
2012-09-26 02:42:32 PM  

Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)


Better, how about every dollar gets taxed as regular income, because it's, you know, income.
 
2012-09-26 02:43:26 PM  

karnal: timujin

His argument is that the money has already been taxed at the corporate level "at up to 35%"... but it's been shown that any corporation that actually pays a 35% tax rate needs to fire its accountant. GE, Exxon and all that.


Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!


And he also makes more than us combined. So what's your point? That how percentages work.

/milk, bread and toilet paper don't cost him any less
//but cost less as a percent
 
2012-09-26 02:44:04 PM  

skullkrusher: Grungehamster: Also, while we're deciding to ignore certain taxes in order to fit a narrative, anyone want to discuss how much Romney pays on money he makes overseas?

[dailydish.typepad.com image 300x419]

no. Who cares?


Alright, just making sure.
 
2012-09-26 02:44:52 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.


Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.
 
2012-09-26 02:45:19 PM  

Grungehamster: skullkrusher: Grungehamster: Also, while we're deciding to ignore certain taxes in order to fit a narrative, anyone want to discuss how much Romney pays on money he makes overseas?

[dailydish.typepad.com image 300x419]

no. Who cares?

Alright, just making sure.


hehe
 
2012-09-26 02:45:21 PM  

impaler: Coolfusis: Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.

Effective tax rate, not including payroll tax.

It's true. If you ignore some federal taxes that someone making $50,000 pays, they don't have a higher federal tax rate.


The effective tax rate for a single person making $50,000 a year (not self-employed) would be around 12.2% assuming they only can take the standard deduction and their personal exemption. (ie. assuming they have no children and that they don't itemize).

The math looks something like this: $50,000 - $6000 (standard deduction) - $4000 (personal exemption) = $40,000 taxable income. The tax on $40,000 is $6131. Divide that by the total income and multiply by 100 and you get around 12.2% tax rate. Of course, if you have ANY other deductions, this rate will go down. So, if you are married - the standard deduction is higher (around 11,000) and you can take two personal exemptions....thus lowering that tax rate quite a bit (down to 8.5%). If you have children - it would be even lower than that.


So, it's not true that people making $50,000 pay a higher effective tax rate than Romney. Just saying.

/I rounded up the standard deduction and the personal exemption to make the math easier. Standard deduction is actually $5950 and exemption is $3800.
 
2012-09-26 02:46:19 PM  

karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime


Yeah? So what? What do meaningless comparisons have to do with it?

I mean, I could point out that the couples attending the dinner with the infamous "Romney Unplugged" video dropped on a single meal approximately double the median annual income for US households.

It's a shocking disparity, but it still doesn't mean anything beyond the fact that its a shocking disparity.
 
2012-09-26 02:46:35 PM  
Wow....this thread sure shows the intelligence level of dems/libs.

Not understanding the difference between Capital Gains taxes and their 'poor mans' taxes. But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs at all. It is really disingenuous and classless but as long as the dem/lib sheep can falsely accuse Romney of not paying his taxes (Harry Reid) or not his 'fair share', MSNBC will still have viewers.

Bain has 48 offices in 31 countries and more than 5,500 employees; 5,500 that wouldn't exist if Romney didn't create the company let alone all the jobs Bain has saved.
 
2012-09-26 02:46:38 PM  
In another six weeks nobody will care about Mitt anymore and he can go back to maximum cheatage on his taxes starting in 2012. The guy will probably never pay a another penny in income taxes for the rest of his life and will die a rich and bitter old man. I hope to forget we even had to know of his existence.
 
2012-09-26 02:46:43 PM  

karnal: intelligent comment below

karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....but the pseudo-outraged Dems keep shouting "MOAR......ROMNEY PAY MOAR TAXES"!


Luckily taxes are not based on the amount but rather percentages. Why do you hate America?

Not America.....just you.


No hate like conservative hate.
 
2012-09-26 02:48:30 PM  

impaler: Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.


yeah his reasoning is pretty retarded too, he is comparing it to a 401k contribution acting like if you die at 50 your kids get all the money you paid into social security along with your 401k.
 
2012-09-26 02:49:07 PM  

ferretman: Wow....this thread sure shows the intelligence level of dems/libs.

Not understanding the difference between Capital Gains taxes and their 'poor mans' taxes. But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs at all. It is really disingenuous and classless but as long as the dem/lib sheep can falsely accuse Romney of not paying his taxes (Harry Reid) or not his 'fair share', MSNBC will still have viewers.

Bain has 48 offices in 31 countries and more than 5,500 employees; 5,500 that wouldn't exist if Romney didn't create the company let alone all the jobs Bain has saved.


Romney should really let people know this stuff. Have you thought about working for his campaign?
 
2012-09-26 02:49:27 PM  

ferretman: But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs


which facts?
I bet you don't even have any.

/don't forget the links
 
2012-09-26 02:50:04 PM  

sammythefish: So, it's not true that people making $50,000 pay a higher effective tax rate than Romney. Just saying.


You didn't include FICA.
 
2012-09-26 02:50:20 PM  

Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

No it doesn't

if your goal is some odd form of fairness then it doesn't if your goal is a robust middle class and poor people with discretionary income it makes sense.


Fairness is inherently subjective, as is the appropriate level of progressivity of the tax code.

You can argue that the code should be more progressive, and even if I disagree I won't be able to prove you wrong. What I do take issue with is the notion that investors are getting some kind of preferential deal. You can't compare the 15% rate on corporate dividends and cap gains to the 35% top rate paid by private business owners and individuals because the 15% comes out of a pool that has already been impacted by corporate income taxes.

Think about it- if corp taxes stayed where they are and dividend and cap gains rates were increased to top marginal rates, the federal govt would take 51.25% of income from corporate investments (25% corporate plus 35% of the remaining 75% individual). That's not including state or local corp or personal taxes. You might think it fair that the government gets almost $3 out of every $5 in corporate income, leaving $2 for the investor (assuming state and local taxes take another 8 cents), but I don't. But again, that's subjective.
 
2012-09-26 02:51:55 PM  

unexplained bacon: ferretman: But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs

which facts?


facts like the earth is 6000 years old, you can't get pregnant from being raped, global warming is fake, obama is a seekrit muslim usurper from kenya, you know the usual...
 
2012-09-26 02:52:20 PM  

ferretman: Wow....this thread sure shows the intelligence level of dems/libs.

Not understanding the difference between Capital Gains taxes and their 'poor mans' taxes. But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs at all. It is really disingenuous and classless but as long as the dem/lib sheep can falsely accuse Romney of not paying his taxes (Harry Reid) or not his 'fair share', MSNBC will still have viewers.

Bain has 48 offices in 31 countries and more than 5,500 employees; 5,500 that wouldn't exist if Romney didn't create the company let alone all the jobs Bain has saved.


Oh hey man, I'm on your side. Romney's the real victim here. Just a workaday guy like the rest of us, trapped in a world he never made.
 
2012-09-26 02:53:17 PM  

jst3p: Headso: Mitt Romneys Tax Return: Corvus: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

Agreed. primary resident sales should also not count.

I agree with this. Capital gains shoulded be taxed as regular income (with targeted exclusions for primary residences and retirement income). The 15% cap gains tax rate is the largest wealth redistribution scheme in American history.

the 150k cap mentioned would be more beneficial to middle class people because a summer home or an investment property or a car or boat or whatever could be sold without incurring those higher taxes...

Perhaps you get one exclusion per year?


No, I'm going to argue against all exclusions. You introduce holes into the tax code, and people will find ways of exploiting them. Capital Gains should be taxed like normal income.
 
2012-09-26 02:53:26 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

No it doesn't

if your goal is some odd form of fairness then it doesn't if your goal is a robust middle class and poor people with discretionary income it makes sense.

Fairness is inherently subjective, as is the appropriate level of progressivity of the tax code.

You can argue that the code should be more progressive, and even if I disagree I won't be able to prove you wrong. What I do take issue with is the notion that investors are getting some kind of preferential deal. You can't compare the 15% rate on corporate dividends and cap gains to the 35% top rate paid by private business owners and individuals because the 15% comes out of a pool that has already been impacted by corporate income taxes.

Think about it- if corp taxes stayed where they are and dividend and cap gains rates were increased to top marginal rates, the federal govt would take 51.25% of income from corporate investments (25% corporate plus 35% of the remaining 75% individual). That's not including state or local corp or personal taxes. You might think it fair that the government gets almost $3 out of every $5 in corporate income, leaving $2 for the investor (assuming state and local taxes take another 8 cents), but I don't. But again, that's subjective.


HERE WE GO AGAIN
 
2012-09-26 02:53:26 PM  
1.bp.blogspot.com

I just want to go back to the tax rates we had in 1994. Or 1990. Or 1988. Back when class warfare meant something.
 
2012-09-26 02:54:03 PM  
Cue Ann Rmoney to chew us peons a new one for doubting her precious "Mitty Witty" in 3...2...1...
 
2012-09-26 02:54:03 PM  

ferretman: Wow....this thread sure shows the intelligence level of dems/libs.

Not understanding the difference between Capital Gains taxes and their 'poor mans' taxes. But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs at all. It is really disingenuous and classless but as long as the dem/lib sheep can falsely accuse Romney of not paying his taxes (Harry Reid) or not his 'fair share', MSNBC will still have viewers.

Bain has 48 offices in 31 countries and more than 5,500 employees; 5,500 that wouldn't exist if Romney didn't create the company let alone all the jobs Bain has saved.


Find your high school English teacher and kick them in the shins.
 
2012-09-26 02:54:09 PM  

impaler: sammythefish: So, it's not true that people making $50,000 pay a higher effective tax rate than Romney. Just saying.

You didn't include FICA.


FICA isn't included in the effective tax rate as referenced in the article, or when you find it given to you on your tax return paperwork.
 
2012-09-26 02:54:24 PM  

karnal: Is uninformed the same as stupid? In your case, yes it is....can't even get your facts straight.
Romney was already a wealthy man by the time his father died in 1995. He did receive an inheritance but gave it away to charity.

Ignorance is a strenght, right-right?



Yes, you are uninformed. Romney got his start from his daddy.

And wtf is a strenght? Is that part of the ignorance I have?
 
2012-09-26 02:57:48 PM  

impaler: Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.


But it determines your benefit. Your contribution is buying longevity, disability, and life insurance. The more you pay in, the higher your benefit will be if you need any of that insurance.

If Romney pays $2m in income taxes he gets the same benefit of the things that income taxes pays for that he would of he paid $200k. He doesn't get to use the roads more, or get his kids more financial aid for school, or better access I subsidized housing.

Conversely, the more you pay into SS the higher your retirement benefit will be, etc.
 
2012-09-26 02:58:40 PM  

Summer Glau's Love Slave: Cue Ann Rmoney to chew us peons a new one for doubting her precious "Mitty Witty" in 3...2...1...


i276.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-26 03:00:29 PM  

ScouserDuck: Ahhhh...guilty until proven innocent. The American way.


I want you to hold your breath for five seconds for every time you've ever said, or failed to similarly object when you heard someone else say (or any variant of it):

"ALL POLITICIANS ARE LIARS"

Begin.
 
2012-09-26 03:00:38 PM  

ferretman: Wow....this thread sure shows the intelligence level of dems/libs.

Not understanding the difference between Capital Gains taxes and their 'poor mans' taxes. But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs at all. It is really disingenuous and classless but as long as the dem/lib sheep can falsely accuse Romney of not paying his taxes (Harry Reid) or not his 'fair share', MSNBC will still have viewers.

Bain has 48 offices in 31 countries and more than 5,500 employees; 5,500 that wouldn't exist if Romney didn't create the company let alone all the jobs Bain has saved.



so you saying that he built that?

well, sources much more reliable than you say different, would you like a chance to redact?
 
2012-09-26 03:01:04 PM  

intelligent comment below: karnal: Is uninformed the same as stupid? In your case, yes it is....can't even get your facts straight.
Romney was already a wealthy man by the time his father died in 1995. He did receive an inheritance but gave it away to charity.

Ignorance is a strenght, right-right?


Yes, you are uninformed. Romney got his start from his daddy.

And wtf is a strenght? Is that part of the ignorance I have?


I'm sure he loaned him $20K to start that business, and then left him the big inheritance nut that Mitt gave to the Mormons in exchange for a better planet and 40 virgins when he dies.

You think pimping is hard? Try getting an extra planet or two from the big guy!
 
2012-09-26 03:01:56 PM  

Headso: impaler: Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.

yeah his reasoning is pretty retarded too, he is comparing it to a 401k contribution acting like if you die at 50 your kids get all the money you paid into social security along with your 401k.


Like i said, you are buying insurance. The higher my contributions, the highery insurance benefit. If i die today my kids will receive a benefit until they are 18, based upon my contributions to SS. Kids of someone else of the same age who has contributed less would receive a lower benefit.
 
2012-09-26 03:02:23 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: You can argue that the code should be more progressive, and even if I disagree I won't be able to prove you wrong. What I do take issue with is the notion that investors are getting some kind of preferential deal. You can't compare the 15% rate on corporate dividends and cap gains to the 35% top rate paid by private business owners and individuals because the 15% comes out of a pool that has already been impacted by corporate income taxes.

Think about it- if corp taxes stayed where they are and dividend and cap gains rates were increased to top marginal rates, the federal govt would take 51.25% of income from corporate investments (25% corporate plus 35% of the remaining 75% individual). That's not including state or local corp or personal taxes. You might think it fair that the government gets almost $3 out of every $5 in corporate income, leaving $2 for the investor (assuming state and local taxes take another 8 cents), but I don't. But again, that's subjective.


If this was true they wouldn't lump capital gains on corporate investment in with the capital gains of selling a second home, both are on equal footing as investment income.
 
2012-09-26 03:02:28 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: If Romney pays $2m in income taxes


Why did Romney pay $2M in income taxes? Because he made money off of capital gains that gets taxed. How did capital gains produce money for Romney? Because of all the thousands (ore more) of workers that work for the companies he has investments in. How did those thousands of workers get to work so they could make Romney money off his investments? They drove on the roads. How did they know how to perform their jobs well? They went to public schools.

Debeo Summa Credo: He doesn't get to use the roads more, or get his kids more financial aid for school, or better access I subsidized housing.


Uh what? Do the workers for the companies making Romney money magically teleport to work or what?
 
2012-09-26 03:03:47 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Like i said, you are buying insurance. The higher my contributions, the highery insurance benefit. If i die today my kids will receive a benefit until they are 18, based upon my contributions to SS. Kids of someone else of the same age who has contributed less would receive a lower benefit.


your grown kids don't get shiat, but you can will your 401k to your kids. it's not even close to the same thing, champ.
 
2012-09-26 03:04:11 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: impaler: Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.

But it determines your benefit. Your contribution is buying longevity, disability, and life insurance. The more you pay in, the higher your benefit will be if you need any of that insurance.

If Romney pays $2m in income taxes he gets the same benefit of the things that income taxes pays for that he would of he paid $200k. He doesn't get to use the roads more, or get his kids more financial aid for school, or better access I subsidized housing.

Conversely, the more you pay into SS the higher your retirement benefit will be, etc.


So, means test SSI benefits, and get rid of the caps. Then you'd be able to lower the actual percentage rate for most working class, middle class Americans and give them real, tangible payroll tax reduction.

Or not, and pretend that the problem is so damn hard and it's so unfair to be rich in this country.
 
2012-09-26 03:04:47 PM  

Isitoveryet: ferretman: Wow....this thread sure shows the intelligence level of dems/libs.

Not understanding the difference between Capital Gains taxes and their 'poor mans' taxes. But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs at all. It is really disingenuous and classless but as long as the dem/lib sheep can falsely accuse Romney of not paying his taxes (Harry Reid) or not his 'fair share', MSNBC will still have viewers.

Bain has 48 offices in 31 countries and more than 5,500 employees; 5,500 that wouldn't exist if Romney didn't create the company let alone all the jobs Bain has saved.


so you saying that he built that?

well, sources much more reliable than you say different, would you like a chance to redact?


He's confusing Bain Capital with Bain&co, I think.
 
2012-09-26 03:06:17 PM  
Deucednuisance SmartestFunniest 2012-09-26 02:46:19 PM


karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime

Yeah? So what? What do meaningless comparisons have to do with it?

I mean, I could point out that the couples attending the dinner with the infamous "Romney Unplugged" video dropped on a single meal approximately double the median annual income for US households.

It's a shocking disparity, but it still doesn't mean anything beyond the fact that its a shocking disparity.



So was 'disparity' your Word of the Day and you had to use it in a sentence? Good job.
 
2012-09-26 03:06:22 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: impaler: Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.

But it determines your benefit. Your contribution is buying longevity, disability, and life insurance. The more you pay in, the higher your benefit will be if you need any of that insurance.

If Romney pays $2m in income taxes he gets the same benefit of the things that income taxes pays for that he would of he paid $200k. He doesn't get to use the roads more, or get his kids more financial aid for school, or better access I subsidized housing.

Conversely, the more you pay into SS the higher your retirement benefit will be, etc.


Obviously Romney and all the other rich guys should move to a country where they would get a better deal. There's lots of them, where the standard of living is the same as America, and he'd be taxed less. You know where they are.
 
2012-09-26 03:06:30 PM  

Aarontology: "If we ignore all these taxes regular people pay, then Romney pays more"

There. I just saved everyone some time.


I saw it yesterday, and that sums it up nicely.

It's also chock full of weasel words.
 
2012-09-26 03:07:48 PM  
25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-26 03:07:56 PM  
Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway. Sane, rational people don't give a shiat about Romney's taxes, especially while they know that the Middle East is on fire, our enemies still hate us and now our allies do as well, the debt has gotten to an unsurvivable level, unemployment numbers haven't gotten any better, gasoline still costs $4/gal since the energy policy still sucks hind tit, and the full scale implementation of the largest tax increase in history that is Obamacare is right around the corner. Among other things.

Keep biatching about Romney's taxes, though. Because the future of this country definitely hinges on that.

Priorities, biatches.
 
2012-09-26 03:08:43 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: He's confusing Bain Capital with Bain&co, I think.


perhaps but then

Bain & Company was established in 1973 by a group of seven former partners and managers
 
2012-09-26 03:08:53 PM  

sammythefish: FICA isn't included in the effective tax rate as referenced in the article,


That's because they're being dishonest.

People pay FICA to the federal government, and it is part of their effective federal tax rate. Ignoring it is just dishonesty.
 
2012-09-26 03:09:12 PM  

RyogaM: Debeo Summa Credo: impaler: Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.

But it determines your benefit. Your contribution is buying longevity, disability, and life insurance. The more you pay in, the higher your benefit will be if you need any of that insurance.

If Romney pays $2m in income taxes he gets the same benefit of the things that income taxes pays for that he would of he paid $200k. He doesn't get to use the roads more, or get his kids more financial aid for school, or better access I subsidized housing.

Conversely, the more you pay into SS the higher your retirement benefit will be, etc.

So, means test SSI benefits, and get rid of the caps. Then you'd be able to lower the actual percentage rate for most working class, middle class Americans and give them real, tangible payroll tax reduction.

Or not, and pretend that the problem is so damn hard and it's so unfair to be rich in this country.


I'm glad you understand that SS taxes aren't equivalent to income taxes, and that people who try to include them in the analysis are full of shiat.

I disagree with your proposal, however. SS is a successful program that forces people to save and prepare for the future, many of whom would end up destitute otherwise.

Your proposal would just turn it into another welfare program.
 
2012-09-26 03:09:15 PM  
Apples, meet Oranges.

The Social Security tax is not the Income Tax.
 
2012-09-26 03:09:39 PM  
FTFA: While Romney may or may not pay less than the average middle-class earner -- depending on how one defines middle class and how one defines tax rate

Talk about burying the lead, Fox News.
 
2012-09-26 03:10:04 PM  

3StratMan: Among other things.


Well Obama should be easy to beat in November then right? Right?
 
2012-09-26 03:10:22 PM  

culebra: ferretman: Wow....this thread sure shows the intelligence level of dems/libs.

Not understanding the difference between Capital Gains taxes and their 'poor mans' taxes. But facts to not seem to matter to dems/libs at all. It is really disingenuous and classless but as long as the dem/lib sheep can falsely accuse Romney of not paying his taxes (Harry Reid) or not his 'fair share', MSNBC will still have viewers.

Bain has 48 offices in 31 countries and more than 5,500 employees; 5,500 that wouldn't exist if Romney didn't create the company let alone all the jobs Bain has saved.

Oh hey man, I'm on your side. Romney's the real victim here. Just a workaday guy like the rest of us, trapped in a world he never made.


Just think, if cap gains were taxed at 35%, Mitt and Anne's 2011 after tax income would have been $24,000 per day. I can't imagine how they could have survived on that. And don't even get me started on Bain - they might have had to cut hours at one of their Chinese slave labor camps factories.
 
2012-09-26 03:10:40 PM  
intelligent comment below

karnal: Is uninformed the same as stupid? In your case, yes it is....can't even get your facts straight.
Romney was already a wealthy man by the time his father died in 1995. He did receive an inheritance but gave it away to charity.

Ignorance is a strenght, right-right?


Yes, you are uninformed. Romney got his start from his daddy.

And wtf is a strenght? Is that part of the ignorance I have?


I guess if you didn't recognize it as a typo you are probably unfamiliar with the word....which is not too surprising. Here - one time - let me help you out:

strength (strngkth, strngth, strnth)
n.
1. The state, property, or quality of being strong.
2. The power to resist attack; impregnability.
3. The power to resist strain or stress; durability
 
2012-09-26 03:10:41 PM  

3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway. Sane, rational people don't give a shiat about Romney's taxes, especially while they know that the Middle East is on fire, our enemies still hate us and now our allies do as well, the debt has gotten to an unsurvivable level, unemployment numbers haven't gotten any better, gasoline still costs $4/gal since the energy policy still sucks hind tit, and the full scale implementation of the largest tax increase in history that is Obamacare is right around the corner. Among other things.

Keep biatching about Romney's taxes, though. Because the future of this country definitely hinges on that.

Priorities, biatches.


yeah, try telling the to that TEA party buddy. Taxation has/is & always will be an issue.

/not saying the issues you brought up aren't issues.
 
2012-09-26 03:10:56 PM  

Isitoveryet:
so you saying that he built that?

well, sources much more reliable than you say different, would you like a chance to redact?


weaselboy is long gone, his MO is to threadsh*t and run.
 
2012-09-26 03:11:15 PM  
Ah republicans. Where the poor have way too much and the rich don't have nearly enough.
 
2012-09-26 03:11:46 PM  

3StratMan: gasoline still costs $4/gal since the energy policy still sucks hind tit


Yet the US is using less gas, and producing more gas.

It's like the economy exists in other parts of the world or something?
 
2012-09-26 03:12:27 PM  

3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway. Sane, rational people don't give a shiat about Romney's taxes, especially while they know that the Middle East is on fire, our enemies still hate us and now our allies do as well, the debt has gotten to an unsurvivable level, unemployment numbers haven't gotten any better, gasoline still costs $4/gal since the energy policy still sucks hind tit, and the full scale implementation of the largest tax increase in history that is Obamacare is right around the corner. Among other things.

Keep biatching about Romney's taxes, though. Because the future of this country definitely hinges on that.

Priorities, biatches.


media.dcentertainment.com
 
2012-09-26 03:12:33 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Very subjective opinion. What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.


Actually, if he's carrying anyone's "ass", it's large corporations like G.E. My sub
 
2012-09-26 03:12:46 PM  

Ambivalence: Ah republicans. Where the poor have way too much and the rich don't have nearly enough.


And the rich will work harder if we give them more, and the poor will work harder if we give them less.
 
2012-09-26 03:12:56 PM  

3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.


you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.
 
2012-09-26 03:13:14 PM  

Ambivalence: Ah republicans. Where the poor have way too much and the rich don't have nearly enough.


Goddamn poors think they're entitled to FOOD for chrissakes! What the hell kind of country do they think we're running here? They can eat dirt and shiat money, just like we did.
 
2012-09-26 03:14:42 PM  

Maud Dib: weaselboy is long gone, his MO is to threadsh*t and run.


Thanks for the heads up!
 
2012-09-26 03:14:45 PM  

Grungehamster: Also, while we're deciding to ignore certain taxes in order to fit a narrative, anyone want to discuss how much Romney pays on money he makes overseas?


Now we're biatching about the taxes Romney pays to foreign governments?

/protip: that form is used to detemine the credit that the taxpayer gets against US tax liability. You should be happy it's a low rate, it means more tax for the US.
 
2012-09-26 03:15:35 PM  

karnal: Probably pays more in taxes in a year than the combined amount of every farker that comments on this thread does in a lifetime.....


We'll never know...but keep speculating.
 
2012-09-26 03:16:11 PM  

impaler: sammythefish: FICA isn't included in the effective tax rate as referenced in the article,

That's because they're being dishonest.

People pay FICA to the federal government, and it is part of their effective federal tax rate. Ignoring it is just dishonesty.


Not if we define terms up front. All of these claims have been about federal income tax, not about FICA (or property taxes, or sales taxes, etc). As long as we are consistent, I don't really see the dishonesty. In terms of Federal Income Tax - the claim is correct: Romney pays a higher effective tax than most. *most*. My husband and I have a yearly income of about $175,000. We pay an effective tax of around 16% (because do itemize - take out property taxes, home mortgage interest, charitable deductions and sales tax). So, we are on the very top, top, edge of middle class and pay more effective tax than Romney. So, there are cases where someone in middle class can pay more in effective tax, but it simply isn't possible if talking about an income of $50,000 as the original poster claimed.
 
2012-09-26 03:17:38 PM  

Jackson Herring: netizencain: Ahh, the politics of jealousy.

Who ARE you? You aren't new around here but I've only recently noticed your terrible posts


I'm guessing it's this guy?

I remember him from '10 and '08. I think he hits up the sports tab in the off season to troll it up over there.
 
2012-09-26 03:19:48 PM  

karnal: So was 'disparity' your Word of the Day and you had to use it in a sentence? Good job.


"Shocking disparity" is a phrase, numbnuts.

Nothing like responding to the substance, is there?

(Because that really was nothing like "responding to the substance".)

But I'm talking to a guy who thinks repetition for emphasis is a sign of, well, something...

Meh. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are it's a right-wing shill on Fark. 

Duck.
 
2012-09-26 03:20:04 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: RyogaM: Debeo Summa Credo: impaler: Debeo Summa Credo:

Your proposal would just turn it into another welfare program.



Sure it would. And then the next question is: So What? So what if SS is a some socialist quasi-welfare system or is a socialist fully-welfare system. So what? If my means of reform creates a stronger, safer, fully paid-for, system to deal with the real issue of old people and disabled people living their final years in poverty, so what if it is welfare or just quasi-welfare?

Because, guess what, the other option, the option championed from the other side, is to create a system which is weaker, not being paid for, and more people live in poverty and want in their later years. All because of the word, ""welfare," some people desire more people to live in poverty. Ridiculous.

And, it's asinine that we are not supposed to consider the tax burden of payroll taxes in the equation of tax fairness, even for those who are self-employed and pay the whole 14% themselves, because they aren't "income taxes." But, hey, semantics must be good for something.
 
2012-09-26 03:21:05 PM  

Deucednuisance: Meh. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are it's a right-wing shill on Fark.


I would've guessed "duck"
 
2012-09-26 03:21:22 PM  
Carn

Ambivalence: Ah republicans. Where the poor have way too much and the rich don't have nearly enough.

Goddamn poors think they're entitled to FOOD for chrissakes! What the hell kind of country do they think we're running here? They can eat dirt and shiat money, just like we did.



Poor don't go hungry in America.....actually the fattest people here are the poor...especially since McDonalds now takes food stamps. God Bless the U.S.!
 
2012-09-26 03:23:14 PM  

Headso: 3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.

you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.


Oh yeah, the polls. Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want. Unless you actually contact every voter in the country to answer your poll, ultimately your poll results don't mean shiat and is just a guessing game and wishful thinking at best. The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.
 
2012-09-26 03:24:32 PM  

skullkrusher: Deucednuisance: Meh. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are it's a right-wing shill on Fark.

I would've guessed "duck"


Well, see? If you weren't a right wing shill, you'd know better.

Do I have to say this is a joke?
 
2012-09-26 03:25:35 PM  

3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.


I long for the day that I have enough scratch to exclude hundreds of thousands of dollars from my AGI by "donating" it to multiple "charitable" Trusts, which exist purely for the benefit of myself.

It's genius, I tells ya!
 
2012-09-26 03:25:35 PM  

ScouserDuck: Ahhhh...guilty until proven innocent. The American way.


"Trust, but verify." - Ronald Reagan
 
2012-09-26 03:26:12 PM  
I wouldn't believe Fox News if it said water was wet.
 
2012-09-26 03:27:29 PM  

karnal: Is uninformed the same as stupid? In your case, yes it is....can't even get your facts straight.
Romney was already a wealthy man by the time his father died in 1995. He did receive an inheritance but gave it away to charity.


Willard paid for college with stock his father bought for him. So he didn't build that.

Then, after his education was complete, he got a job at Bain & Company.

Romney aspired to start a new business, and in 1983, Bill Bain offered him the chance to head a new venture that would buy into companies, have them benefit from Bain consulting techniques, and allow the venture's partners to reap higher rewards than consulting fees. He initially refrained from accepting the offer, and Bain re-arranged the terms in a complicated partnership structure so that there was no financial or professional risk to Romney. Thus, in 1984, Romney left Bain & Company to co-found the spin-off private equity investment firm, Bain Capital.

So, he didn't actually build that either.

And he donated his inheritance to BYU's "George W. Romney Institute of Public Management." That's right - his inheritance went to help people prepare for a lifetime of working in government. Sounds a bit liberal.

George Romney was a good man with decent values. Too bad his son sold out those values (and his own) in a last-ditch attempt to be president.
 
2012-09-26 03:27:37 PM  

impaler: 3StratMan: gasoline still costs $4/gal since the energy policy still sucks hind tit

Yet the US is using less gas, and producing more gas.

It's like the economy exists in other parts of the world or something?


Obama didn't pull the lower gas prices lever. Duh!
 
2012-09-26 03:28:19 PM  

3StratMan: Sane, rational people



so, not a single one of you fark conservatives.
 
2012-09-26 03:28:31 PM  

3StratMan: Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want


called it! liberal media conspiracy
 
2012-09-26 03:29:04 PM  

Mikey1969: Debeo Summa Credo: Very subjective opinion. What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Actually, if he's carrying anyone's "ass", it's large corporations like G.E. My sub


GE paid $8b in income taxes on their global operations over the last three years, per their audited 10k.

But yeah, I'd agree in general that targeted tax breaks for corporations should be reduced. GE gets a significant benefit from green tax credits because of their wind turbine operations.
 
2012-09-26 03:29:11 PM  

NallTWD: GAT_00:

The f*ck is this?

Okay, I've been waffling on adding you to my faves list (of which there are three since 2007) for a year now, and that sealed it. What color do you want?


Some variant of blue please, thank you very much.

skullkrusher: mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?

reverse that and we got ourselves a deal


If the liberals get to control the military budget too so we can try to pay for your tax cuts, I'm open to negotiations.
 
2012-09-26 03:29:19 PM  

karnal: Poor don't go hungry in America


wrong you are....


did you call anyone a DIM yet?

/you should look up the word: weak
 
2012-09-26 03:29:20 PM  

karnal: I guess if you didn't recognize it as a typo you are probably unfamiliar with the word....which is not too surprising. Here - one time - let me help you out:



You can't call people stupid then in the same post make basic spelling errors. It makes you look stupid.
 
2012-09-26 03:29:23 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: skullkrusher: Deucednuisance: Meh. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are it's a right-wing shill on Fark.

I would've guessed "duck"

Well, see? If you weren't a right wing shill, you'd know better.

Do I have to say this is a joke?


my posts don't echo
 
2012-09-26 03:30:17 PM  
Why does everyone let distractions like this take over the whole debate? We should be talking about issues that actually matter to people. Green Bay deserved to win that game!
 
2012-09-26 03:30:20 PM  

3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.

you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.

Oh yeah, the polls. Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want. Unless you actually contact every voter in the country to answer your poll, ultimately your poll results don't mean shiat and is just a guessing game and wishful thinking at best. The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


Silent Majority!!!!!!11

Polls are a liberal conspiracy!
 
2012-09-26 03:31:05 PM  
Deucednuisance

karnal: So was 'disparity' your Word of the Day and you had to use it in a sentence? Good job.

"Shocking disparity" is a phrase, numbnuts.

Nothing like responding to the substance, is there?

(Because that really was nothing like "responding to the substance".)

But I'm talking to a guy who thinks repetition for emphasis is a sign of, well, something...

Meh. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are it's a right-wing shill on Fark.

Duck.



The disparity between your posts and how much I actually care is in direct proportion to the size of your over exaggerated ego.
 
2012-09-26 03:31:34 PM  

3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.

you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.

Oh yeah, the polls. Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want. Unless you actually contact every voter in the country to answer your poll, ultimately your poll results don't mean shiat and is just a guessing game and wishful thinking at best. The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


I've been dying to ask this question: IF on Nov. 6th, the election map looks 95% like the map Nate Silver posts on Nov. 5th, and Nate Silver correctly predicts the presidential winner, and the electoral college totals, on Nov 5th, are you still going to say that the polls don't mean anything? I mean, I understand trying to be optimistic about your candidate's chances on 9-26, but, if Nate Silver is able to actually able to predict the results, aren't you going to fell a little bit disappointing in yourself that you could have known before hand what was going to happen, but choose to ignore it?

Or are you just trolling and actually believe Silver's predictions will come true, but just want to take a piss on the liberals?
 
2012-09-26 03:32:16 PM  

Fart_Machine: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.

you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.

Oh yeah, the polls. Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want. Unless you actually contact every voter in the country to answer your poll, ultimately your poll results don't mean shiat and is just a guessing game and wishful thinking at best. The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.

Silent Majority!!!!!!11

Polls are a liberal conspiracy!


I wish the silent majority would shut up for once.
 
2012-09-26 03:32:51 PM  

skullkrusher: Corvus: I actually pay a higher percentage rate than Romney does.

Also would like to see how much taxes he paid on the Romney illegally held in Swiss bank accounts before 2009 amnesty program that he is hiding.

dude's rich but not to the extent we can start calling "money" "Romney" now.


I may disagree with you on policy 100% of the time, but you do have a pretty quick wit. I'm not sure I could have kept my sense of humor back in 2004 when Kerry was our Romney, so kudos.
 
2012-09-26 03:32:56 PM  

3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.

you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.

Oh yeah, the polls. Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want. Unless you actually contact every voter in the country to answer your poll, ultimately your poll results don't mean shiat and is just a guessing game and wishful thinking at best. The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


The art of polling has a liberal bias.
 
2012-09-26 03:34:01 PM  

GAT_00: NallTWD: GAT_00:

The f*ck is this?

Okay, I've been waffling on adding you to my faves list (of which there are three since 2007) for a year now, and that sealed it. What color do you want?

Some variant of blue please, thank you very much.

skullkrusher: mrshowrules: netizencain: GAT_00: Even if that's true, which it isn't, he makes more than 99.99% of us so he's still paying far too little.

Thank god you're in charge of deciding how much is too much for the rest of us.

Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?

reverse that and we got ourselves a deal

If the liberals get to control the military budget too so we can try to pay for your tax cuts, I'm open to negotiations.


signed and sealed. I have sent it via Pony Express to

Che von Marx
1917 Red Square Circle
Sociolismopolis, Vermont 05402
 
2012-09-26 03:34:35 PM  

Fart_Machine: Polls are a liberal conspiracy!


List of People Conspiring Against the GOP, and therefore, America
(LOPCATGOPATA for short):
Liberals
Democrats
Socialists
Community Organizers
Geologists
Biologists
Meteorologists
Climatologists
Atheists
Muslims
Jews
Satan
ABC
NBC
CNN
CBS
PBS
All of cable news except FNC
The New York Times
The LA Times
The Washington Post
The Associated Press
Reuters
BBC
The Guardian
Black People
Mexicans
Human Rights Activists
SCOTUS
Europe
Movie Industry
Television Industry
Environmentalists
ACLU
The United Nations
Labor Unions
Colleges
Teachers
Professors
ACORN
National Endowment for the Arts
Gays
Judges
NPR
Paleontologists
Astrophysicists
Museums (*except Creationism Museum)
WHO
WTO
Inflated tires
The Honolulu Advertiser
The Star Bulletin
Teletubbies
Sponge Bob and Patrick
Nobel Prize Committee
US Census Bureau
NOAA
Sesame Street
Comic Books
Little Green Footballs
Video Games
The Bible
CBO
Bruce Springsteen
Pennies
The Theory of Relativity
Comedy Central
Young People
whatever the hell a Justin Beiber is
Small Business Owners
Math
CPAC
Navy SEALs
The Economist
The Muppets
Iowa Republicans
Low-Flow Toilets
Breast Cancer Screenings
Chrysler
Clint Eastwood.
Robert Deniro
Tom Hanks
Glenn Frey
Norman Rockwell
James Cameron
Dr. Seus
Nuns
Supreme Court Justice John Roberts
Jonathan Krohn at age 17
Australia
Fact Checkers
Facts
Polls
 
2012-09-26 03:34:48 PM  
Who are you going to believe, FoxNews backed up by the IRS a letter from Romney's accountant, or your own 1040?

ftfy subby
 
2012-09-26 03:35:23 PM  

Eatin' Queer Fetuses for Jesus: skullkrusher: Corvus: I actually pay a higher percentage rate than Romney does.

Also would like to see how much taxes he paid on the Romney illegally held in Swiss bank accounts before 2009 amnesty program that he is hiding.

dude's rich but not to the extent we can start calling "money" "Romney" now.

I may disagree with you on policy 100% of the time, but you do have a pretty quick wit. I'm not sure I could have kept my sense of humor back in 2004 when Kerry was our Romney, so kudos.


lemme let you in a little secret:

I want your guy to win 

Don't tell anyone though. I want to be invited to the next Fark conservatroll pancake and handgun social
 
2012-09-26 03:35:48 PM  

karnal: Poor don't go hungry in America



So you're just as disconnected as Romney. That's not shocking at all.


3StratMan: The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.



And how's that working out for you so far?

i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-26 03:36:11 PM  
The interesting thing is that Romney under-deducted his charitable donations. He kicked in more than $4 million to charity (which is good) but only deducted $2 million of it. Odd, isn't it?

So what's the reason?

Deducting the entire $4 million would put him under 10% taxes paid. He can go back up to 3 years later and file an amended return and get the full amount back, so this is just a sham anyway. He's totally gaming the system, and his idiot supporter are too stupid to see it.
 
2012-09-26 03:37:54 PM  

karnal: Poor don't go hungry in America.....actually the fattest people here are the poor...especially since McDonalds now takes food stamps. God Bless the U.S.!


A troll lying his ass off? On MY Fark?

It's not about who takes SNAP funding - it's where it's allowed in the first place. It's a state decision.

As of last year, only California, Arizona and Michigan allowed it. And that is just for the elderly, homeless and disabled.

Rhode Island has a similar pilot program, and Florida does as well - but ONLY for the homeless.
 
2012-09-26 03:38:00 PM  

karnal: Carn

Ambivalence: Ah republicans. Where the poor have way too much and the rich don't have nearly enough.

Goddamn poors think they're entitled to FOOD for chrissakes! What the hell kind of country do they think we're running here? They can eat dirt and shiat money, just like we did.


Poor don't go hungry in America.....actually the fattest people here are the poor...especially since McDonalds now takes food stamps. God Bless the U.S.!


"In 2010, 17.2 million households, 14.5 percent of households (approximately one in seven), were food insecure, the highest number ever recorded in the United States

In 2010, about one-third of food-insecure households (6.7 million households, or 5.4 percent of all U.S. households) had very low food security (compared with 4.7 million households (4.1 percent) in 2007. In households with very low food security, the food intake of some household members was reduced, and their normal eating patterns were disrupted because of the household's food insecurity (Coleman-Jensen 2011, p. v., Nord 2009, p. iii.) .

Background: The United States changed the name of its definitions in 2006 that eliminated references to hunger, keeping various categories of food insecurity. This did not represent a change in what was measured. Very low food insecurity (described as food insecurity with hunger prior to 2006) means that, at times during the year, the food intake of household members was reduced and their normal eating patterns were disrupted because the household lacked money and other resources for food. This means that people were hungry ( in the sense of "the uneasy or painful sensation caused by want of food" [Oxford English Dictionary 1971] for days each year (Nord 2009 p. iii-iv.)."


Sorry, what was that you were saying? I've bolded certain important parts because you're clearly an idiot.
 
2012-09-26 03:38:21 PM  

karnal: your over exaggerated ego



Tell us all about the millions in the bank, the multiple diplomas on your wall, and the super famous people who want to be seen with you. That's what I thought. You are just like all the rest of the Fark Conservatives. Barely middle class kids just out of college or the military only making money because they know computers. But you post like you're Romney's Chief of Staff.
 
2012-09-26 03:40:12 PM  

sammythefish: All of these claims have been about federal income tax, not about FICA (or property taxes, or sales taxes, etc).


The claims have often been about federal taxes (income, FICA and excise), when discussing tax rates at the federal level. If you think people only talk about income taxes, you're hanging around too many Republicans.
 
2012-09-26 03:40:21 PM  

3StratMan: The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


Ugh, this is one of the stupidest teabagger talking points right now.
 
2012-09-26 03:41:40 PM  

nevirus: Ugh, this is one of the stupidest teabagger talking points right now.


It's the motto of a (every) losing campaign.
 
2012-09-26 03:42:23 PM  

nevirus: 3StratMan: The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.

Ugh, this is one of the stupidest teabagger talking points right now.


It was used It last election when they claimed McCain would win.
 
2012-09-26 03:42:26 PM  
I'm going to believe what the internet told me, subby.
 
2012-09-26 03:42:56 PM  

karnal: Deucednuisance

karnal: So was 'disparity' your Word of the Day and you had to use it in a sentence? Good job.

"Shocking disparity" is a phrase, numbnuts.

Nothing like responding to the substance, is there?

(Because that really was nothing like "responding to the substance".)

But I'm talking to a guy who thinks repetition for emphasis is a sign of, well, something...

Meh. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck, odds are it's a right-wing shill on Fark.

Duck.

The disparity between your posts and how much I actually care is in direct proportion to the size of your over exaggerated ego.


We can tell how little you care about his posts by how often you reply to them.

Also, we need a clarification - you say his ego is "over exaggerated." What level of exaggeration is acceptable in respect to one's ego? Could his be made moderately exaggerated, or even normally exaggerated, with a little tweaking of his self-esteem?
 
2012-09-26 03:44:19 PM  

intelligent comment below: karnal: Poor don't go hungry in America


So you're just as disconnected as Romney. That's not shocking at all.


3StratMan: The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


And how's that working out for you so far?

[i.imgur.com image 600x692]


Aw, hell. the election was today? How did I miss it? Might as well have the inauguration tomorrow, eh?
 
2012-09-26 03:44:45 PM  

intelligent comment below: karnal: your over exaggerated ego


Tell us all about the millions in the bank, the multiple diplomas on your wall, and the super famous people who want to be seen with you. That's what I thought. You are just like all the rest of the Fark Conservatives. Barely middle class kids just out of college or the military only making money because they know computers. But you post like you're Romney's Chief of Staff.


you have woven a glorious blanket of +5 reality protection for yourself which you hide under while furiously typing away at the keyboard occasionally daring to peek out to see if any alt trolls are approaching
 
2012-09-26 03:46:22 PM  

Maud Dib: Isitoveryet:
so you saying that he built that?

well, sources much more reliable than you say different, would you like a chance to redact?

weaselboy is long gone, his MO is to threadsh*t and run.


Some of us actually have jobs that we need to be doing. Obviously I'm not part of the 47% that you are.
 
2012-09-26 03:47:17 PM  

3StratMan: Aw, hell. the election was today? How did I miss it? Might as well have the inauguration tomorrow, eh?



So you're going to STFU and not talk politics until election day? That's glorious. Thank you!


skullkrusher: you have woven a glorious blanket of +5 reality protection for yourself which you hide under while furiously typing away at the keyboard occasionally daring to peek out to see if any alt trolls are approaching



Hide under what? The truth? Yeah I know the truth about all you trolls is so scary. That you'd be ditch diggers if it wasn't for technology because you have no real skills in life.

Every single day of your life you pick fights with people far smarter than you on the internet. What does that say about you? You might want to ask your psychiatrist next time you go begging for upping your meds.
 
2012-09-26 03:48:28 PM  

ferretman: Maud Dib: Isitoveryet:
so you saying that he built that?

well, sources much more reliable than you say different, would you like a chance to redact?

weaselboy is long gone, his MO is to threadsh*t and run.

Some of us actually have jobs that we need to be doing. Obviously I'm not part of the 47% that you are.


Which is why you're posting on FARK. Or do get paid to troll?
 
2012-09-26 03:48:43 PM  
Ahhh, Republicans. What idiots to think that 97% of us pay a LOWER RATE than Mitt Romney.

After taxes, my wife and I still have to pay property+school taxes, which accounts for roughly 15% of our gross income. Last time I checked, 15% is greater than 14.1%, and the 15% is AFTER taxes are taken out.

Add in federal, state, and other taxes, and subtract deductions, and....SURPRISE! WE STILL pay a higher percentage of taxes than Mitt Romney!

Don't insult our intelligence, you farking assholes. You're going to get your f*cking lumps in November. Enough with this nonsense of stupidity being the new intelligence.

Fark you.
 
2012-09-26 03:48:52 PM  

ferretman: Some of us actually have jobs that we need to be doing



And yet here you are, trolling Fark during the work day.

ferretman: Obviously I'm not part of the 47% that you are.



That's true, because the 47% works harder and society owes them far more than you could ever pretend you are worth
 
2012-09-26 03:49:56 PM  

intelligent comment below: Hide under what? The truth? Yeah I know the truth about all you trolls is so scary. That you'd be ditch diggers if it wasn't for technology because you have no real skills in life.


a skill with technology is not a skill because you do not possess it... interesting. Incredibly arrogant as well but you do call yourself "intelligent comment below" after all and I've grown rather accustomed to you saying astonishingly stupid shiat so it fits quite nicely into what I expect from you


intelligent comment below: Every single day of your life you pick fights with people far smarter than you on the internet.


I have never spoken to Neil degrasse Yyson on the internet. You lie!
 
2012-09-26 03:50:31 PM  

skullkrusher: I have never spoken to Neil degrasse Yyson on the internet. You lie!


ummm... you meant Tyson, skullkrusher.
 
2012-09-26 03:51:04 PM  

3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.

you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.

Oh yeah, the polls. Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want. Unless you actually contact every voter in the country to answer your poll, ultimately your poll results don't mean shiat and is just a guessing game and wishful thinking at best. The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


Which would result in over-sampling people who aren't going to vote.

It's almost like you're just parroting the newest talking point that the GOP is using, since they suddenly realized that low turnout might wind up farking them over. But you made the mistake of thinking for yourself after that and showing how little thought you actually apply to this subject.

Good job, sparky.

On a side note, I have to say I love how statistics is now being portrayed as a "guessing game." Evolution is only a theory, you know. Just like the theory of gravity.
 
2012-09-26 03:51:05 PM  

3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway.

you might want to check out some recent polls, but based on the rest of your post I'd assume it's the liberal-media-conspiracy at fault for why Romney isn't polling way above Obama.

Oh yeah, the polls. Like the polls that only poll specific demographics to get results closer to what they want. Unless you actually contact every voter in the country to answer your poll, ultimately your poll results don't mean shiat and is just a guessing game and wishful thinking at best. The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


Nate Silver, and pretty much anyone who took statistics 101, laughs at your ignorance.
 
2012-09-26 03:51:25 PM  

3StratMan: intelligent comment below: karnal: Poor don't go hungry in America


So you're just as disconnected as Romney. That's not shocking at all.


3StratMan: The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.


And how's that working out for you so far?

[i.imgur.com image 600x692]

Aw, hell. the election was today? How did I miss it? Might as well have the inauguration tomorrow, eh?



Please, I know your doing your own groovy thing here, but I am genuinely curious.

IF on Nov. 6th, the election map looks 95% like the map Nate Silver posts on Nov. 5th, and Nate Silver correctly predicts the presidential winner, and the electoral college totals, on Nov 5th, are you still going to say that the polls don't mean anything? I mean, I understand trying to be optimistic about your candidate's chances on 9-26, but, if Nate Silver is able to actually able to predict the results, aren't you going to fell a little bit disappointing in yourself that you could have known before hand what was going to happen, but choose to ignore it?

Or are you just trolling and actually believe Silver's predictions will come true, but just want to take a piss on the liberals?
 
2012-09-26 03:52:20 PM  
Middle-class guy here--almost upper-middle.

I paid about 2% in federal taxes.

/Deductions and loopholes are a man's best friend.
 
2012-09-26 03:52:29 PM  

skullkrusher: a skill with technology is not a skill because you do not possess it... interesting. Incredibly arrogant as well but you do call yourself "intelligent comment below" after all and I've grown rather accustomed to you saying astonishingly stupid shiat so it fits quite nicely into what I expect from you



It's not a skill if a 15 year old knows as much as you do about computers or if it requires no actual degree to learn. You're nothing more than a 21st century factory worker.


skullkrusher: I have never spoken to Neil degrasse Yyson on the internet. You lie!



It's so cute when you pretend to have any level of education
 
2012-09-26 03:53:26 PM  

ferretman: Some of us actually have jobs that we need to be doing. Obviously I'm not part of the 47% that you are.


did you build that job yourself?
 
2012-09-26 03:54:14 PM  

intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: a skill with technology is not a skill because you do not possess it... interesting. Incredibly arrogant as well but you do call yourself "intelligent comment below" after all and I've grown rather accustomed to you saying astonishingly stupid shiat so it fits quite nicely into what I expect from you


It's not a skill if a 15 year old knows as much as you do about computers or if it requires no actual degree to learn. You're nothing more than a 21st century factory worker.


I see you know very little about IT.

Not all of us work the helpdesk.
 
2012-09-26 03:54:32 PM  
aren't you going to feel a little bit disappointed in yourself that you could have known beforehand what was going to happen, but chose to ignore it?



Holy crap. I repost a question with the same retarded grammar mistake. I hang my head in shame.
 
2012-09-26 03:54:50 PM  

intelligent comment below: It's not a skill if a 15 year old knows as much as you do about computers or if it requires no actual degree to learn. You're nothing more than a 21st century factory worker.


oooh, being a factory worker pays pretty well in the 21st century. Yay the future!

intelligent comment below: It's so cute when you pretend to have any level of education


BA in econ from College of the Holy cross - ranked 22nd-24th best liberal arts school in the country when I was there. Classes in comp sci at Columbia University but no post grad degree. I was too busy digging ditches

/to hide all my munnay
 
2012-09-26 03:55:41 PM  

mainstreet62: Ahhh, Republicans. What idiots to think that 97% of us pay a LOWER RATE than Mitt Romney.

After taxes, my wife and I still have to pay property+school taxes, which accounts for roughly 15% of our gross income. Last time I checked, 15% is greater than 14.1%, and the 15% is AFTER taxes are taken out.

Add in federal, state, and other taxes, and subtract deductions, and....SURPRISE! WE STILL pay a higher percentage of taxes than Mitt Romney!

Don't insult our intelligence, you farking assholes. You're going to get your f*cking lumps in November. Enough with this nonsense of stupidity being the new intelligence.

Fark you.


They're not insulting our intelligence - they're insulting the intelligence of people who think Fox News is reliable, truthful, "fair and balanced."

But their audience won't realize their intelligence is being insulted. They'll just think we're insulting them when we point out how incredibly simplistic and ignorant the argument is. And they won't be able to respond with facts, which will only make them more pissed off - but they'll be pissed off at us, rather than the people who are feeding them this propaganda. They'll also be pissed off at the news sources that are giving us facts...which will result in them watching even more Fox News.

It's the Circle of DERP.
 
2012-09-26 03:56:52 PM  
So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?
 
2012-09-26 03:57:02 PM  

jst3p: intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: a skill with technology is not a skill because you do not possess it... interesting. Incredibly arrogant as well but you do call yourself "intelligent comment below" after all and I've grown rather accustomed to you saying astonishingly stupid shiat so it fits quite nicely into what I expect from you


It's not a skill if a 15 year old knows as much as you do about computers or if it requires no actual degree to learn. You're nothing more than a 21st century factory worker.

I see you know very little about IT.

Not all of us work the helpdesk.


To be fair, ICB's experience with IT is speaking to a guy in Bangalore who insists his name is "Stan" when his Jitterbug isn't working or he can't get on the email because AOL is down
 
2012-09-26 03:57:14 PM  

ferretman: Maud Dib: Isitoveryet:
so you saying that he built that?

well, sources much more reliable than you say different, would you like a chance to redact?

weaselboy is long gone, his MO is to threadsh*t and run.

Some of us actually have jobs that we need to be doing. Obviously I'm not part of the 47% that you are.


you're working?
does your boss know about that?

/it's the same as stealing
 
2012-09-26 03:57:27 PM  
dtdstudios.com
 
2012-09-26 03:57:43 PM  

intelligent comment below: It's so cute when you pretend to have any level of education


lol hey now Hamburger University is accredited!

/in making delicious Hamburgers
 
2012-09-26 03:57:55 PM  

dr_blasto: Well, that's clearly your own fault. Why don't you make most of your income the same way Romney does? Those loopholes are there for everyone you know.


I took your advice before you gave it. Last year in December I incorporated. You wouldn't believe what is tax deductible.
 
2012-09-26 03:59:07 PM  

jst3p: I see you know very little about IT.

Not all of us work the helpdesk.



No IT job needs a degree or anything other than a few weeks or months of training. Including programming and network "engineers."
 
2012-09-26 03:59:29 PM  

skullkrusher: jst3p: intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: a skill with technology is not a skill because you do not possess it... interesting. Incredibly arrogant as well but you do call yourself "intelligent comment below" after all and I've grown rather accustomed to you saying astonishingly stupid shiat so it fits quite nicely into what I expect from you


It's not a skill if a 15 year old knows as much as you do about computers or if it requires no actual degree to learn. You're nothing more than a 21st century factory worker.

I see you know very little about IT.

Not all of us work the helpdesk.

To be fair, ICB's experience with IT is speaking to a guy in Bangalore who insists his name is "Stan" when his Jitterbug isn't working or he can't get on the email because AOL is down


Someone has to be doing the needful.
 
2012-09-26 03:59:32 PM  

fickenchucker: Middle-class guy here--almost upper-middle.

I paid about 2% in federal taxes.

/Deductions and loopholes are a man's best friend.


And legal. Provided by your beloved IRS/Federal Government.
 
2012-09-26 03:59:35 PM  

3StratMan: So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?


You should ask George Romney

i1156.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-26 03:59:50 PM  

Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 843x403]


if you're gonna post a simple jpeg, at least update it
 
2012-09-26 03:59:59 PM  

skullkrusher: BA in econ


LOL yeah sure thing buddy.
 
2012-09-26 04:00:12 PM  

intelligent comment below: jst3p: I see you know very little about IT.

Not all of us work the helpdesk.


No IT job needs a degree or anything other than a few weeks or months of training. Including programming and network "engineers."


None that you are aware of, I agree with your ignorance there.
 
2012-09-26 04:00:16 PM  

Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 843x403]


I think he just release '11, yes?
 
2012-09-26 04:00:59 PM  

intelligent comment below: jst3p: I see you know very little about IT.

Not all of us work the helpdesk.


No IT job needs a degree or anything other than a few weeks or months of training. Including programming and network "engineers."


hmm... I am pretty convinced at this moment that all this "alt troll trolling the trolly alts" whining you do is some serious ass projection on your part
 
2012-09-26 04:01:05 PM  

the_geek: dr_blasto: Well, that's clearly your own fault. Why don't you make most of your income the same way Romney does? Those loopholes are there for everyone you know.

I took your advice before you gave it. Last year in December I incorporated. You wouldn't believe what is tax deductible.



I was told by Republicans and Libertarians that small businesses were all being overtaxed to death. This can't possibly be true.
 
2012-09-26 04:01:35 PM  

3StratMan: intelligent comment below: karnal: Poor don't go hungry in America

So you're just as disconnected as Romney. That's not shocking at all.

3StratMan: The only poll that matters is the one on November 6th.

And how's that working out for you so far?

[i.imgur.com image 600x692]

Aw, hell. the election was today? How did I miss it? Might as well have the inauguration tomorrow, eh?


Yeah, because the polls leading up to the election rarely have any similarity to the results on Election Day.

That's what got us President Dole, Gore*, Kerry and McCain.

*actually did win the popular vote, just like in the polling
 
2012-09-26 04:02:01 PM  
Folks who think that families who rely on food support receive too much, have obviously never had to rely on food support.
 
2012-09-26 04:02:01 PM  

3StratMan: fickenchucker: Middle-class guy here--almost upper-middle.

I paid about 2% in federal taxes.

/Deductions and loopholes are a man's best friend.

And legal. Provided by your beloved IRS/Federal Government.


Can you at least tell me to learn to live with disappointment regarding my sincere attempt to elicit a response to my question?
 
2012-09-26 04:02:11 PM  

Rich Cream: coeyagi: Depression, or the prevention of, or the treatment of, is not a big deal compared to MS. (Checks stats.) Oh, I see. That would totally deplete the IRS coffers.

My depression shows that much you respond directly toward it?

/that makes me sad


I have a "friend" who told me cats are for depressives. I swalled a couple Paxil and told him to f*ck off.
 
2012-09-26 04:02:24 PM  

3StratMan: So why does Romney's tax status matter?


wealth inequality has been one of the issues of this election thanks to the shiatty economy and the recovery to wall street but not main street and the protests of last year.
 
2012-09-26 04:02:42 PM  

BeesNuts: Jackson Herring: netizencain: Ahh, the politics of jealousy.

Who ARE you? You aren't new around here but I've only recently noticed your terrible posts

I'm guessing it's this guy?

I remember him from '10 and '08. I think he hits up the sports tab in the off season to troll it up over there.


I certainly wish him luck in getting out of California. Happy to help in any way I can...
 
2012-09-26 04:03:05 PM  

jst3p: None that you are aware of, I agree with your ignorance there.



Funny considering I know CTO's who don't even have college degrees, and network engineers at Fortune 500 companies who were hired with no degrees and only were required to take MCSE tests.

There is no job in IT that needs a degree to learn skills you cannot learn on the job with a basic understanding of technology.

And calling someone who works in IT an "engineer" is embarrassing to real engineers.

I'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.
 
2012-09-26 04:04:02 PM  

ferretman:

Some of us actually have jobs that we need to be doing. Obviously I'm not part of the 47% that you are.



i3.kym-cdn.com

Some of us know how to multitask.
But walking and chewing gum must be incredibly difficult for you with your potato handicap.
 
2012-09-26 04:04:11 PM  

skullkrusher: serious ass projection


maybe he had taco bell for lunch
 
2012-09-26 04:05:00 PM  

3StratMan: So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?


I guess we'll know on November 6th. That's the only poll that matters, you know.

First, the polling by this time in the cycle has been reasonably good, especially when it comes to calling the winners and losers in the race. Of the 19 candidates who led in the polls at this stage since 1936, 18 won the popular vote (Thomas E. Dewey in 1948 is the exception), and 17 won the Electoral College (Al Gore lost it in 2000, along with Mr. Dewey).
...
If you eliminate the candidates with double-digit leads, the front-runner's record is eight Electoral College wins in 10 tries, or a batting average of 80 percent.

This a simple method - to the point of being crude. But it's interesting, nevertheless, that the 80 percent figure corresponds quite well with the FiveThirtyEight forecast, which gave Mr. Obama a 78 percent chance of winning as of Sunday night, and with the odds on offer by bookmakers, many of whom list Mr. Obama as about a 4-to-1 favorite.

The second theme is one that we've brought up before. There has not been any tendency, at least at this stage of the race, for the contest to break toward the challenging candidate.

Instead, it's actually the incumbent-party candidate who has gained ground on average since 1936. On average, the incumbent candidate added 4.6 percentage points between the late September polls and his actual Election Day result, whereas the challenger gained 2.5 percentage points.

You can slice the data in slightly different ways if you like: by looking at only true incumbent presidents, for instance, as opposed to those who represented the incumbent party after the sitting president retired - or furthermore, you can restrict the sample to elected incumbents, which would exclude cases like Gerald R. Ford in 1976. But it gets you to more or less the same answer.


Read more about the "guessing game."
 
2012-09-26 04:05:02 PM  

skullkrusher: serious ass projection



So you have no real argument showing the required skills of anyone in a IT position requires a degree. At least we got down to the truth finally.

But you're a trained economist... who has no knowledge of economics or business. Projection indeed.
 
2012-09-26 04:05:09 PM  

NateGrey: 3StratMan: So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?

You should ask George Romney

[i1156.photobucket.com image 460x360]


Apply that to Fast And Furious/Executive Privilege and the we'll talk.
 
2012-09-26 04:05:23 PM  
The Tax Foundation estimated in a report in January that Romney's rate in 2010 -- which was also about 14 percent -- was higher than what 97 percent of Americans pay.


Um... have we brought up that if the Tax Foundation obtained Romney's tax returns without permission, they are guilty of a FELONY yet? As is the Fox News team?

Because I actually think that's a more important point to bring up than whatever the hell stupid point they're trying to make.
 
2012-09-26 04:05:36 PM  

intelligent comment below: jst3p: None that you are aware of, I agree with your ignorance there.


Funny considering I know CTO's who don't even have college degrees, and network engineers at Fortune 500 companies who were hired with no degrees and only were required to take MCSE tests.

There is no job in IT that needs a degree to learn skills you cannot learn on the job with a basic understanding of technology.

And calling someone who works in IT an "engineer" is embarrassing to real engineers.

I'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.


I don't dispute the no degree required part, but if you think there is no job in IT that can't be done with a "few weeks" of traning, you are ignorant, a liar or just plain stupid. I was being generous when I called you ignorant.
 
2012-09-26 04:05:51 PM  

intelligent comment below: jst3p: None that you are aware of, I agree with your ignorance there.


Funny considering I know CTO's who don't even have college degrees, and network engineers at Fortune 500 companies who were hired with no degrees and only were required to take MCSE tests.

There is no job in IT that needs a degree to learn skills you cannot learn on the job with a basic understanding of technology.

And calling someone who works in IT an "engineer" is embarrassing to real engineers.

I'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.


ASSERT (intelligentcommentbelow.IsSmart ());

bugs.openttd.org
 
2012-09-26 04:07:27 PM  

intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: serious ass projection


So you have no real argument showing the required skills of anyone in a IT position requires a degree. At least we got down to the truth finally.

But you're a trained economist... who has no knowledge of economics or business. Projection indeed.


upload.wikimedia.org
 
2012-09-26 04:07:36 PM  
/and I realize I am insulting all the idiots who spent tens of thousands of dollars getting degrees at ITT Tech, Devry, and other diploma mills who think they are in the same prestige as engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. who all know real skills.

//For good measure, had a friend a few years ago who went to one of those and even got a Cisco certification. The guy admitted he knew absolutely nothing beyond the basics about IT.

///Just wait until more people go into the field like all other basic fields not requiring education and you find yourself making half the 100k salary you are used to
 
2012-09-26 04:07:45 PM  

ferretman: Maud Dib: Isitoveryet:
so you saying that he built that?

well, sources much more reliable than you say different, would you like a chance to redact?

weaselboy is long gone, his MO is to threadsh*t and run.

Some of us actually have jobs fapping that we need to be doing. Obviously I'm not part of the 47% that you are.


Don't lie....
 
2012-09-26 04:08:08 PM  

Headso: 3StratMan: So why does Romney's tax status matter?

wealth inequality has been one of the issues of this election thanks to the shiatty economy and the recovery to wall street but not main street and the protests of last year.


Ah, class warfare. It's finally come out.
 
2012-09-26 04:09:25 PM  

jst3p: I don't dispute the no degree required part, but if you think there is no job in IT that can't be done with a "few weeks" of traning, you are ignorant, a liar or just plain stupid. I was being generous when I called you ignorant.



Weeks or months. That's the truth. Take anyone with an understanding of technology and you can turn them into any IT position within weeks or months. You can call me anything you want but that doesn't negate the truth


skullkrusher: ASSERT (intelligentcommentbelow.IsSmart ());



Gee I am shocked that a blowhard loudmouth uneducated right winger is a programmer. This is shocking. I am going to have some people call you up for a cover story for a huge article. This revelation is mind blowing.
 
2012-09-26 04:12:07 PM  

intelligent comment below: /and I realize I am insulting all the idiots who spent tens of thousands of dollars getting degrees at ITT Tech, Devry, and other diploma mills who think they are in the same prestige as engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. who all know real skills.

//For good measure, had a friend a few years ago who went to one of those and even got a Cisco certification. The guy admitted he knew absolutely nothing beyond the basics about IT.

///Just wait until more people go into the field like all other basic fields not requiring education and you find yourself making half the 100k salary you are used to



Heard this in 2000 when the cert mills were turning out MCSEs by the gross. Funny thing, companies discovered there is a difference between the guy who can do it and the guy who can do it well. I don't fault you for your ignorance, there are a lot of people in IT and much of it is entry level stuff. The field is still plagued by Mr. "I have a computer so I am an IT professional" But you really should stop talking about this subject as you aren't as familiar with the field as you think you are.
 
2012-09-26 04:12:56 PM  

Shadowknight: OK, then he'll have no problem, you know, RELEASING THE PAPERWORK proving that, right? No?

Then you're still lying.


Birther 101.
 
2012-09-26 04:13:50 PM  

intelligent comment below: Weeks or months. That's the truth. Take anyone with an understanding of technology and you can turn them into any IT position within weeks or months. You can call me anything you want but that doesn't negate the truth


Ahhh moving the goal posts. I agree, given say 60 months you can teach a competent person almost any IT position.
 
2012-09-26 04:13:57 PM  

3StratMan: NateGrey: 3StratMan: So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?

You should ask George Romney

[i1156.photobucket.com image 460x360]

Apply that to Fast And Furious/Executive Privilege and the we'll talk.


Would you like to change the subject again?
 
2012-09-26 04:14:07 PM  

intelligent comment below: I'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.


People in IT make a decent middle class living, believing they deserve a middle class lifestyle makes them full of themselves? I'm not so sure on your claim about ignorance.
 
2012-09-26 04:16:04 PM  

intelligent comment below: Gee I am shocked that a blowhard loudmouth uneducated right winger is a programmer. This is shocking. I am going to have some people call you up for a cover story for a huge article. This revelation is mind blowing.


yeah, if any industry is known for its right wingers it's technology...

Anyway, I gave you my educational background. What's yours?
 
2012-09-26 04:16:21 PM  

intelligent comment below: So you have no real argument showing the required skills of anyone in a IT position requires a degree. At least we got down to the truth finally.

But you're a trained economist... who has no knowledge of economics or business. Projection indeed.


No profession requires a degree although they do require knowledge. A degree is simply a certification that one has met a minimum standard of knowledge in a particular field. We restrict some professions to accredited individuals because it is dangerous for just anyone to practice them but that doesn't mean that a degree is required to have mastery of that field of study.

University degrees are largely gatekeepers but you're a fool to dismiss them as irrelevant.
 
2012-09-26 04:16:55 PM  

3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: So why does Romney's tax status matter?

wealth inequality has been one of the issues of this election thanks to the shiatty economy and the recovery to wall street but not main street and the protests of last year.

Ah, class warfare. It's finally come out.


to translate out of your native derp
poor and middle class people try to mitigate their tax burden at the expense of the super wealthy = class warfare
super wealthy try to mitigate their tax burden at the expense of the poor and middle class = jerb creators
 
2012-09-26 04:17:02 PM  

intelligent comment below: skullkrusher: serious ass projection

So you have no real argument showing the required skills of anyone in a IT position requires a degree. At least we got down to the truth finally.

But you're a trained economist... who has no knowledge of economics or business. Projection indeed.


I've been in IT for over a decade. I'm now the network admin for a rather large company, and am quite well paid with great benefits. No degree.

Then again...I'm also on Fark at the moment. So maybe I'm not the best example.
 
2012-09-26 04:17:06 PM  

3StratMan: class warfare


another retarded talking point

Either you:
A) Really believe this stupid shiat; or
B) Think other people are stupid enough to believe it... which means you're actually campaigning for Romney. Romney

Good lord I'm embarrassed for you. Ain't enough soap in the world to wash that stank off.
 
2012-09-26 04:17:37 PM  

intelligent comment below: 'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.


Yes, fortune 500 companies often pay six-figure salaries to people who could be replaced by 15 year old kids out of fear. It all makes sense.
 
2012-09-26 04:17:37 PM  

3StratMan: NateGrey: 3StratMan: So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?

You should ask George Romney

[i1156.photobucket.com image 460x360]

Apply that to Fast And Furious/Executive Privilege and the we'll talk.


What does that have to do with Tax Returns?

Oh trying to change the subject. Carry on.
 
2012-09-26 04:17:42 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

No it doesn't, at least in regard to corporate investments, which are already taxed at corporate rates. You are smart enough to know that.

Income from an investment in a corporation is taxed at a statutory rate of 35%, (25% average effective rate). Then the 75 cents left over gets taxed at 15%, resulting in an all in rate of 36%, higher than ordinary rates.


You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?
 
2012-09-26 04:18:25 PM  

czetie: eraser8: When they're trying to make taxes look oppressive, Fox "News" will be certain to include payroll taxes, excise taxes, gasoline taxes, sales taxes and every other tax they can think of. Taxed Enough Already!

Don't forget, the penalty for declining healthcare insurance is also a tax when you're complaining about taxes, but a fee when you're asking the Supreme Court to overturn it.


Remember, the penalty is a tax when you're asking the Supreme Court to uphold it, but a fee when you're trying to cling to your claim that you won't raise taxes on anyone making less than $250,000.
 
2012-09-26 04:18:35 PM  
This isn't fooling anyone who wasn't already fooled.
 
2012-09-26 04:19:41 PM  

jst3p: intelligent comment below: 'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.

Yes, fortune 500 companies often pay six-figure salaries to people who could be replaced by 15 year old kids out of fear. It all makes sense.


well, that's because the managers at F500 companies are all old people who are afraid of technology because they didn't go to DeVry. They pay us so we won't create tumblr pages mocking them.
 
2012-09-26 04:19:47 PM  

dr_blasto: Debeo Summa Credo: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

No it doesn't, at least in regard to corporate investments, which are already taxed at corporate rates. You are smart enough to know that.

Income from an investment in a corporation is taxed at a statutory rate of 35%, (25% average effective rate). Then the 75 cents left over gets taxed at 15%, resulting in an all in rate of 36%, higher than ordinary rates.

You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?


To be fair, he saw it in a cartoon. If you can't trust a cartoon you saw on the internet, what can you trust?
 
2012-09-26 04:20:37 PM  

Fart_Machine: 3StratMan: NateGrey: 3StratMan: So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?

You should ask George Romney

[i1156.photobucket.com image 460x360]

Apply that to Fast And Furious/Executive Privilege and the we'll talk.

Would you like to change the subject again?


Just showing another example of one of the many things that you lefties try to use against the right that your guy is usually guilty of. But as usual, YOUR guy is not guilty of it. Romney MUST be hiding something by not revealing his taxes, but NO FARKING WAY Obama could be hiding anything with that little executive privilege thingee.
 
2012-09-26 04:21:34 PM  

jst3p: intelligent comment below: Weeks or months. That's the truth. Take anyone with an understanding of technology and you can turn them into any IT position within weeks or months. You can call me anything you want but that doesn't negate the truth

Ahhh moving the goal posts. I agree, given say 60 months you can teach a competent person almost any IT position.


The same could be said of almost anything with the exception of hard science or extreme athletic ability. Give me enough time and I could teach a 12 year old to weld well, draw a human figure with correct proportion and weight, or program a usable UI. Why do I know that? Because these are all skills I learned because I took the time to do it. I get paid to do some of these things because other people haven't taken the time to learn them. That's how specialization works.
 
2012-09-26 04:22:58 PM  

Antimatter: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)


Better, how about every dollar gets taxed as regular income, because it's, you know, income.


Because I think it would be counter productive to put many retirees who saved their whole lives to now be all of a sudden to be needing to make more money like I said. We would be making more people burdens on the economy when we wouldn't have to.

It's the same reason we shouldn't be taxing poor people. I mean I guess we could do it other ways like make 401ks or IRA's pay less taxes but I don't want to open another loophole for the Romney's of the world who can cheat and put unlimited cash into 401ks or IRA's.

Having retirees to be taxed who didn't expect it would be counter productive. Do I think ideologically it should be taxed the same? YES! But like I keep telling people I am a pragmatist not an idealist.

Idealism is easy, funny and exciting because how perfect it works, but more times then not it doesn't work in the real world. Answers are more complicated.
 
2012-09-26 04:23:22 PM  

Duke Phillips' Singing Bears: jst3p: intelligent comment below: Weeks or months. That's the truth. Take anyone with an understanding of technology and you can turn them into any IT position within weeks or months. You can call me anything you want but that doesn't negate the truth

Ahhh moving the goal posts. I agree, given say 60 months you can teach a competent person almost any IT position.

The same could be said of almost anything with the exception of hard science or extreme athletic ability. Give me enough time and I could teach a 12 year old to weld well, draw a human figure with correct proportion and weight, or program a usable UI. Why do I know that? Because these are all skills I learned because I took the time to do it. I get paid to do some of these things because other people haven't taken the time to learn them. That's how specialization works.


I want to know how you drew a human figure with the correct weight, because that sounds pretty farking amazing.
 
2012-09-26 04:24:11 PM  

Corvus: Idealism is easy, funny and exciting because how perfect it works, but more times then not it doesn't work in the real world. Answers are more complicated.


Ha. it's funny too but I meant "fun".
 
2012-09-26 04:25:40 PM  

3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: So why does Romney's tax status matter?

wealth inequality has been one of the issues of this election thanks to the shiatty economy and the recovery to wall street but not main street and the protests of last year.

Ah, class warfare. It's finally come out.


It came out a while back.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney

And, since you guys love the "WE BUILT THAT!" shiat:

"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney

Oh, was that out of context? Not fair? Kinda like "you didn't build that?" Then here's one more:

"Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."
- Willard Mitt Romney
 
2012-09-26 04:27:15 PM  
So we're now stretching "effective tax rate" to include FICA payments from wages, despite them not being reported on the 1040?

I can see including the SE tax (which is essentially just Self Employed FICA), because it's calculated and reported on the 1040 and is included in the calculation of total tax.

Short primer:

Effective tax rate: TOTAL TAX/AGI

Your FICA payments from your wage slave job are not included ANYWHERE on your tax return (caveat: unless you overpaid them, then the overpayment shows up as a credit on line 69. This only happens when you manage to have two jobs during the year that take you over the limit and your HR depts don't talk to each other). Therefore, they are not included in the calculation of effective tax rate and it is disingenuous to include them in this discussion. However, SE tax is calculated as part of TOTAL TAX, therefore included in effective tax rate calculations.
 
2012-09-26 04:27:44 PM  

cchris_39: Apples, meet Oranges.

The Social Security tax is not the Income Tax.


Fine. Then the federal outlay for 'Entitlements" is not "income tax revenue spending" either, because it paid for (excepting some GOP give-aways) by trust funds supplied by payroll taxes (like FICA)

Congratulations, you've just reduced the budget (in relation to income tax revenues) by about 2/3rds!
And made defense spending the hugest part.

TL;DR: either count payroll taxes as a taxpayer burden, or stop whining about SS and Medicare expenditures (except part D)
 
2012-09-26 04:27:47 PM  

Corvus: Antimatter: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

Better, how about every dollar gets taxed as regular income, because it's, you know, income.

Because I think it would be counter productive to put many retirees who saved their whole lives to now be all of a sudden to be needing to make more money like I said. We would be making more people burdens on the economy when we wouldn't have to.

It's the same reason we shouldn't be taxing poor people. I mean I guess we could do it other ways like make 401ks or IRA's pay less taxes but I don't want to open another loophole for the Romney's of the world who can cheat and put unlimited cash into 401ks or IRA's.

Having retirees to be taxed who didn't expect it would be counter productive. Do I think ideologically it should be taxed the same? YES! But like I keep telling people I am a pragmatist not an idealist.

Idealism is easy, funny and exciting because how perfect it works, but more times then not it doesn't work in the real world. Answers are more complicated.


Make it over the number of years that you owned it. If you sell a house that you've owned for 20 years, you can pay the taxes on it over 20 years without penalty. If they die before it's paid off, take it out of the estate (if any). I think a housing exception is easier, but it certainly can be done.
 
2012-09-26 04:28:17 PM  

intelligent comment below: Gee I am shocked that a blowhard loudmouth uneducated right winger is a programmer.


thetmexperience.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-26 04:28:53 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: So why does Romney's tax status matter?

wealth inequality has been one of the issues of this election thanks to the shiatty economy and the recovery to wall street but not main street and the protests of last year.

Ah, class warfare. It's finally come out.

It came out a while back.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney

And, since you guys love the "WE BUILT THAT!" shiat:

"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney

Oh, was that out of context? Not fair? Kinda like "you didn't build that?" Then here's one more:

"Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."
- Willard Mitt Romney


I find it interesting that class warfare has been going on since at least 1980 and the wealthy are winning (if you look at percentage of total wealth and who has accumulated it and the fact that when adjusted for inflation the middle class has stagnant wages). Now that we are noticing "CLASS WARFARE DERP!"
 
2012-09-26 04:29:54 PM  

3StratMan: NateGrey: 3StratMan: So with the state that the country is in these days, exactly what the fark does Romney's tax status matter anyway? I has no impact at all on the problems that ail this country right now. NONE. In '08, Tim Geithner's tax status didn't matter at all to any of you. He was welcomed onto the SS Obama Rainbow Warrior with open arms. And as far as I can tell, the Obama camp thinks he has done a great job. So why does Romney's tax status matter?

You should ask George Romney

[i1156.photobucket.com image 460x360]

Apply that to Fast And Furious/Executive Privilege and the we'll talk.


Obama cited executive privilege to protect communications between the White House and executive departments - JUST LIKE OTHER PRESIDENTS HAVE DONE.

Romney ignored what other candidates have done (including his own father) and wants us to ignore his refusal to do what they did. Oh, and he wanted his VP candidates to share 10 years of their own returns with him.

What else you got?
 
2012-09-26 04:30:37 PM  
There is truly no point in arguing this with the 97% of ignorant zealots who compare their INCOME tax rate with his CAPITAL GAINS rate (on investments which have already been taxed at least once).

There's no way for Republicans to win this argument versus so much sheer stupidity. This is misinformation at it's finest.
 
2012-09-26 04:30:37 PM  

thurstonxhowell: intelligent comment below: Gee I am shocked that a blowhard loudmouth uneducated right winger is a programmer.

[thetmexperience.files.wordpress.com image 300x247]


wait, but that's implying that I am also a "blowhard loudmouth uneducated" person. You're a shiatty alt, thurston
 
2012-09-26 04:31:52 PM  

jst3p: I want to know how you drew a human figure with the correct weight, because that sounds pretty farking amazing.


lol. It's a reference to the optical illusion that creates the feeling a drawing has form. You know, like when you see a character on paper and it looks like they're actually occupying the space they're in. I guess a better term would be "mass."
 
2012-09-26 04:32:28 PM  

jst3p: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan: So why does Romney's tax status matter?

wealth inequality has been one of the issues of this election thanks to the shiatty economy and the recovery to wall street but not main street and the protests of last year.

Ah, class warfare. It's finally come out.

It came out a while back.

"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney

And, since you guys love the "WE BUILT THAT!" shiat:

"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney

Oh, was that out of context? Not fair? Kinda like "you didn't build that?" Then here's one more:

"Sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander."
- Willard Mitt Romney

I find it interesting that class warfare has been going on since at least 1980 and the wealthy are winning (if you look at percentage of total wealth and who has accumulated it and the fact that when adjusted for inflation the middle class has stagnant wages). Now that we are noticing "CLASS WARFARE DERP!"


Pointing that out is class warfare.

Just like the REAL racist is the one who points out racism.
 
2012-09-26 04:35:09 PM  

bluelancer03: There is truly no point in arguing this with the 97% of ignorant zealots who compare their INCOME tax rate with his CAPITAL GAINS rate (on investments which have already been taxed at least once).


People who never owned and sold anything of value don't know that capital gains taxes are not just for income on investment gained from corporate profits I think that is why they blindingly repeat the double taxation myth.
 
2012-09-26 04:35:12 PM  

bluelancer03: There is truly no point in arguing this with the 97% of ignorant zealots who compare their INCOME tax rate with his CAPITAL GAINS rate (on investments which have already been taxed at least once).


If I buy a car, hold it for a year, and then resell it at a profit I have to claim that as income.
If I buy stock, hold it for a year, and then resell it at a profit I get to claim it as long term capital gains.

Please explain why one form of income should be taxed less than another. Please factor in that there is no guarantee that I will be able to sell either at a profit.
 
2012-09-26 04:35:27 PM  

intelligent comment below: jst3p: None that you are aware of, I agree with your ignorance there.


Funny considering I know CTO's who don't even have college degrees, and network engineers at Fortune 500 companies who were hired with no degrees and only were required to take MCSE tests.

There is no job in IT that needs a degree to learn skills you cannot learn on the job with a basic understanding of technology.

And calling someone who works in IT an "engineer" is embarrassing to real engineers.

I'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.


I only have a GED and have been in IT in some fashion for 17 years now and make really pretty good money. It's amazing how many people are just totally clueless when it comes to tech - not just old ones. Programers are the worse. How can someone that knows so much about how to make a computer do something know so little about how they work?

/they are simple machines
//I'm a Solaris admin today with manager in my title
///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school
 
2012-09-26 04:36:54 PM  

timujin: Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 843x403]

I think he just release '11, yes?


You mean the one with the "Foreign Country Name" box filled in as USA?

www.usnews.com

I think that's "preliminary" 

/Could have been worse, it could have been "Amercia"
 
2012-09-26 04:39:35 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: So we're now stretching "effective tax rate" to include FICA payments from wages, despite them not being reported on the 1040?

No. Federal tax rate has always included FICA, because it's a federal tax.

But hey, what does the Congressional Budget Office know? Amirite?
growlersoftware.com
/www.cbo.gov
 
2012-09-26 04:40:41 PM  

intelligent comment below: jst3p: None that you are aware of, I agree with your ignorance there.


Funny considering I know CTO's who don't even have college degrees, and network engineers at Fortune 500 companies who were hired with no degrees and only were required to take MCSE tests.

There is no job in IT that needs a degree to learn skills you cannot learn on the job with a basic understanding of technology.

And calling someone who works in IT an "engineer" is embarrassing to real engineers.

I'm not ignorant, you're just full of yourselves and think you deserve your payrate when you only get paid that much because all the old people writing your checks are so afraid of technology and out of touch.


wow this is so full of BS I don't even know what to say.

As someone who has been working in IT for a long time, you sound like one of those young assholes who thinks they know everything because they set up their home router and has a mac.

I know plenty of people who own their own companies and businesses that don't have a degree in anything. You don't need a degree to own your own business etc etc it works both ways. You can either do the job or you can't. Degrees only help stupid people understand what skills you may or may not have.

you also forget one major thing. Many people doing this as long as I have went to college when there wasn't a formal Comp Sci or equivalent program.

So in your example, they took the tests to get the MCSE because HR required the hire to have it, I would be willing to bet good money they were hired for skills not related to microsoft and only got the cert to accommodate HR
 
2012-09-26 04:41:30 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: ///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school


I don't use anything I learned studying physics, philosophy, literature, or art in my career but I'm glad to have learned those things. A university education is money well spent regardless of your eventual occupation. A few years at a university can open your mind to a wealth of ideas you might not otherwise have considered pursuing. I'm honestly sorry that you've missed that experience.
 
2012-09-26 04:41:31 PM  

thurstonxhowell: intelligent comment below: Gee I am shocked that a blowhard loudmouth uneducated right winger is a programmer.

[thetmexperience.files.wordpress.com image 300x247]


thetmexperience.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-26 04:41:56 PM  

sammythefish: RexTalionis: Meh. I paid at least 24% of my income to the IRS in 2011 and that was my effective rate because I have no deductions or exemptions.

That's not completely accurate. Everyone gets to take a standard deduction and at least one personal exemption for themselves. Last year, the standard deduction for a single person was $5950 and the personal exemption was $3800. This means that you would have subtracted out almost $10,000 in deductions. If you didn't do this - you didn't do your taxes correctly.


Sorry, I should've said no itemized deductions.
 
2012-09-26 04:42:43 PM  

impaler: sammythefish: All of these claims have been about federal income tax, not about FICA (or property taxes, or sales taxes, etc).

The claims have often been about federal taxes (income, FICA and excise), when discussing tax rates at the federal level. If you think people only talk about income taxes, you're hanging around too many Republicans.


Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?

Comparing apples to apples - Romney does pay a higher effective tax when compared to THE EXACT SAME effective tax of others who made significantly less than he in a given year.

/I dislike Romney very much
//Not republican or conservative
//Those things don't alter the reality that is this discussion about effective tax
 
2012-09-26 04:42:59 PM  

kindms: you also forget one major thing. Many people doing this as long as I have went to college when there wasn't a formal Comp Sci or equivalent program.


exactly - I worked on Wall St for a number of years before deciding that A) I loved technology and B) I loved the business but hated working in finance so, went back and got myself some training and love my job now.
 
2012-09-26 04:44:12 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I only have a GED and have been in IT in some fashion for 17 years now and make really pretty good money. It's amazing how many people are just totally clueless when it comes to tech - not just old ones. Programers are the worse. How can someone that knows so much about how to make a computer do something know so little about how they work?

/they are simple machines
//I'm a Solaris admin today with manager in my title
///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school



I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.
 
2012-09-26 04:45:02 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: timujin: Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 843x403]

I think he just release '11, yes?

You mean the one with the "Foreign Country Name" box filled in as USA?

www.usnews.com

I think that's "preliminary"

/Could have been worse, it could have been "Amercia"


Hah, awesome, he even managed to fark that up.
 
2012-09-26 04:46:12 PM  

3StratMan: Keep using the Romney tax distraction, Farkers, since it isn't working anyway. Sane, rational people don't give a shiat about Romney's taxes, especially while they know that the Middle East is on fire, our enemies still hate us and now our allies do as well, the debt has gotten to an unsurvivable level, unemployment numbers haven't gotten any better, gasoline still costs $4/gal since the energy policy still sucks hind tit, and the full scale implementation of the largest tax increase in history that is Obamacare is right around the corner. Among other things.

Keep biatching about Romney's taxes, though. Because the future of this country definitely hinges on that.

Priorities, biatches.


Enemies are always going to hate us. That's kind of how it works.

Our Allies are pissed because Romney decided to go on a world tour and shiat all over them.

Nobody gives two shiats about national debt.

Suck it.
 
2012-09-26 04:46:28 PM  

3StratMan: ust showing another example of one of the many things that you lefties try to use against the right that your guy is usually guilty of. But as usual, YOUR guy is not guilty of it. Romney MUST be hiding something by not revealing his taxes, but NO FARKING WAY Obama could be hiding anything with that little executive privilege thingee.


I suspect the president is hiding things. Like the names of ATF agents' contacts and other undercover data. But no, you want to go all Valerie Plame on it.

Romney's hiding something according to his Dad's assertions. Do the LDS consider the 10 Commandments as the 10 Suggestions?
 
2012-09-26 04:47:19 PM  

bluelancer03: There is truly no point in arguing this with the 97% of ignorant zealots who compare their INCOME tax rate with his CAPITAL GAINS rate (on investments which have already been taxed at least once).


If I buy a stock, it's not taxed. If I sell it for a profit, the extra money is the "capital GAIN" that is taxed. That income has not already been taxed.

Also, qualified dividends get taxed at the long term capital gain rate.

You might be more of an ignorant zealot than anyone else.
 
2012-09-26 04:49:46 PM  

NateGrey: I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome


Hey now, we're not all uneducated, just the insecure ones. I just work in the field because it's easier than astrophysics and pays a lot better.
 
2012-09-26 04:51:30 PM  

sammythefish: Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?


They are adding them to Romney's. He only has a FICA rate of around 1.5%. It's apples to apples.

There are no federal property or sales taxes.
 
2012-09-26 04:51:42 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: RyogaM: Debeo Summa Credo: impaler: Debeo Summa Credo: What is a fact is that he pays far more than you in dollar terms and therefore is carrying your ass.

Another fact is that I pay far more than you in dollar terms and therefore I'm carrying your ass.

Oh, and in regard to TFA, social security taxes don't count. Obama is being disingenuous as is anybody who tries to include them in the analysis.

I assure you, the money that gets paid to social security is 100% as real as the money that gets paid to income tax. The only people being disingenuous are the lying arseholes that pretend it's not.

But it determines your benefit. Your contribution is buying longevity, disability, and life insurance. The more you pay in, the higher your benefit will be if you need any of that insurance.

If Romney pays $2m in income taxes he gets the same benefit of the things that income taxes pays for that he would of he paid $200k. He doesn't get to use the roads more, or get his kids more financial aid for school, or better access I subsidized housing.

Conversely, the more you pay into SS the higher your retirement benefit will be, etc.

So, means test SSI benefits, and get rid of the caps. Then you'd be able to lower the actual percentage rate for most working class, middle class Americans and give them real, tangible payroll tax reduction.

Or not, and pretend that the problem is so damn hard and it's so unfair to be rich in this country.

I'm glad you understand that SS taxes aren't equivalent to income taxes, and that people who try to include them in the analysis are full of shiat.

I disagree with your proposal, however. SS is a successful program that forces people to save and prepare for the future, many of whom would end up destitute otherwise.

Your proposal would just turn it into another welfare program.


It already is a welfare program though, it's just a welfare program for the rich.

Average yearly earnings is highly correlated to lifespan. The poor are far less likely to collect on their benefits than the rich and the rich have lifespans that exceed the average benefit period that they paid in towards, so in the big picture the poor subsidize the retirement of the rich through the current system.
 
2012-09-26 04:54:27 PM  

timujin: Ed Finnerty: [dtdstudios.com image 843x403]

I think he just release '11, yes?


yeah but he will amend it after the election to make sure he doesn't overpay. it will go down to about 10% after he deducts that other 2 mill in donations to his cult.
 
2012-09-26 04:54:56 PM  

intelligent comment below: /and I realize I am insulting all the idiots who spent tens of thousands of dollars getting degrees at ITT Tech, Devry, and other diploma mills who think they are in the same prestige as engineers, doctors, lawyers, accountants, etc. who all know real skills.

//For good measure, had a friend a few years ago who went to one of those and even got a Cisco certification. The guy admitted he knew absolutely nothing beyond the basics about IT.

///Just wait until more people go into the field like all other basic fields not requiring education and you find yourself making half the 100k salary you are used to


Oh, man, you're hysterical. Not in a funny way, but in a raving lunatic type of way.

I'm not an IT guy (maybe im one of the old scared guys) but if it's so easy and overpaid why can't all the poor downtrodden masses you are always championing take the 5 or 6 weeks to get certified and get their asses off the farking dole?

/because it's not that easy
//people get paid what they're worth
 
2012-09-26 04:55:21 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: NateGrey: I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome

Hey now, we're not all uneducated, just the insecure ones. I just work in the field because it's easier than astrophysics and pays a lot better.


lol not everyone is how I described, just the ones that like to put down education and say things like "what a waste of thousands of dollars" like:

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: //lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school.

The ones that let their work do the talking are the good ones.
 
2012-09-26 04:55:22 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.
 
2012-09-26 04:56:05 PM  
I find a few things missing from this article...like, say, hard data. Or logic. Or anything other than 'well, Romney pays MORE than you guys, trust us! Because...trust us!'.
 
2012-09-26 04:56:37 PM  

dr_blasto: Debeo Summa Credo: skullkrusher: Corvus: Serious we need something like 150k+/yr in capital gains, its gets taxed as normal income.

That's the only way to fix the problem.

(I think we shouldn't do ALL capital gains because it would screw over many people in retirement who did all they could to put money away to retire in their old age)

exclusions for primary residence sales then yeah, sounds aight. Cap gains above $150k taxed at marginal income tax rates sounds reasonable.

No it doesn't, at least in regard to corporate investments, which are already taxed at corporate rates. You are smart enough to know that.

Income from an investment in a corporation is taxed at a statutory rate of 35%, (25% average effective rate). Then the 75 cents left over gets taxed at 15%, resulting in an all in rate of 36%, higher than ordinary rates.

You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?


Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.
 
2012-09-26 04:56:47 PM  

impaler: sammythefish: Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?

They are adding them to Romney's. He only has a FICA rate of around 1.5%. It's apples to apples.

There are no federal property or sales taxes.


Citation needed.
 
2012-09-26 04:57:11 PM  

NateGrey: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I only have a GED and have been in IT in some fashion for 17 years now and make really pretty good money. It's amazing how many people are just totally clueless when it comes to tech - not just old ones. Programers are the worse. How can someone that knows so much about how to make a computer do something know so little about how they work?

/they are simple machines
//I'm a Solaris admin today with manager in my title
///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school


I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.


I don't give a shiat about a degree let alone be insecure about it. Why should I when I can do my job and make good money without one? I am not like any IT guy you have ever met. I'm not a nerd, I will actually help you and not make you feel stupid, and people like me at least they act like they do and always come to me over others.
The only reason I pointed out I don't have a degree was that it was the topic that I responded to.

/and good looking
//the only social skills I lack is respect for authority
///sounds like you're jealous and still have student loans
 
2012-09-26 04:57:25 PM  

rufus-t-firefly: And, since you guys love the "WE BUILT THAT!" shiat:

"I'm not concerned about the very poor."


pretty sure Mittens get to use the "they started it" on that one
 
2012-09-26 04:58:19 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: NateGrey: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I only have a GED and have been in IT in some fashion for 17 years now and make really pretty good money. It's amazing how many people are just totally clueless when it comes to tech - not just old ones. Programers are the worse. How can someone that knows so much about how to make a computer do something know so little about how they work?

/they are simple machines
//I'm a Solaris admin today with manager in my title
///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school


I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.

I don't give a shiat about a degree let alone be insecure about it. Why should I when I can do my job and make good money without one? I am not like any IT guy you have ever met. I'm not a nerd, I will actually help you and not make you feel stupid, and people like me at least they act like they do and always come to me over others.
The only reason I pointed out I don't have a degree was that it was the topic that I responded to.

/and good looking
//the only social skills I lack is respect for authority
///sounds like you're jealous and still have student loans


can you take out student loans in high school?
 
2012-09-26 04:58:57 PM  
So, a guy that is richer than 99.99% of all Americans pays more taxes than 97% of them. Sounds fair to me. uh, Waitaminute...
 
2012-09-26 04:59:44 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: 3StratMan: ust showing another example of one of the many things that you lefties try to use against the right that your guy is usually guilty of. But as usual, YOUR guy is not guilty of it. Romney MUST be hiding something by not revealing his taxes, but NO FARKING WAY Obama could be hiding anything with that little executive privilege thingee.

I suspect the president is hiding things. Like the names of ATF agents' contacts and other undercover data. But no, you want to go all Valerie Plame on it.


Hmm. President hides what he knew about an illegal operation that gets an American killed and he's regarded as a hero. Nice. Like to see Bush try that.
 
2012-09-26 05:00:38 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.


So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?
 
2012-09-26 05:00:44 PM  

NateGrey: Monkeyhouse Zendo: NateGrey: I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome

Hey now, we're not all uneducated, just the insecure ones. I just work in the field because it's easier than astrophysics and pays a lot better.

lol not everyone is how I described, just the ones that like to put down education and say things like "what a waste of thousands of dollars" like:

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: //lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school.

The ones that let their work do the talking are the good ones.


Agreed, but I don't have a way to show that to you on fark.
I have been employed by a major global corporation for the last 12 years. I think I know what I'm doing and do it pretty well to have the position I have today. I sure didn't get it based on who I know.
 
2012-09-26 05:02:09 PM  

NateGrey:


I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.


The best skill one can have in the modern IT world is knowing where in the building the free food is.
I just strolled by the breakroom and there was a pizza box on one of the tables.
Ran a recon mission but it was only garlic bread.
Sad panda.
 
2012-09-26 05:03:00 PM  

Maud Dib: NateGrey:


I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.

The best skill one can have in the modern IT world is knowing where in the building the free food is.
I just strolled by the breakroom and there was a pizza box on one of the tables.
Ran a recon mission but it was only garlic bread.
Sad panda.


I was gonna say "understanding the business you're developing for" but free food is good too
 
2012-09-26 05:03:45 PM  

impaler: bluelancer03: There is truly no point in arguing this with the 97% of ignorant zealots who compare their INCOME tax rate with his CAPITAL GAINS rate (on investments which have already been taxed at least once).

If I buy a stock, it's not taxed. If I sell it for a profit, the extra money is the "capital GAIN" that is taxed. That income has not already been taxed.

Also, qualified dividends get taxed at the long term capital gain rate.

You might be more of an ignorant zealot than anyone else.


If you hold it for a year and sell it, you qualify for the 15% rate. That is important because long term changes in stock price are primarily driven by expectations about future after tax earnings. So the gain on your security that resulted from an expectation of higher increases earnings has been affected by the taxation of those earnings.

Everything else (market sentiment, interest rate fluctuation, etc.) is essentially zero sum over the long term. The tax code tries to accommodate the fact that day to say prices may not reflect future earnings expectations by making cap gains on any stock held for less than one year (as well as any gains on short sales or options) taxable at ordinary rates.
 
2012-09-26 05:04:34 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: ///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school

I don't use anything I learned studying physics, philosophy, literature, or art in my career but I'm glad to have learned those things. A university education is money well spent regardless of your eventual occupation. A few years at a university can open your mind to a wealth of ideas you might not otherwise have considered pursuing. I'm honestly sorry that you've missed that experience.


I'll admit that I have had some regret about missing out on a lot of that. Knowledge is power, and the more you know, the better off you are.
I think the things I missed out on most are the parties and meeting girls though.
 
2012-09-26 05:05:23 PM  

3StratMan: Just showing another example of one of the many things that you lefties try to use against the right that your guy is usually guilty of.


Obama released over a decade of tax returns. Did Romney do this while our backs were turned?
 
2012-09-26 05:06:35 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I don't give a shiat about a degree let alone be insecure about it. Why should I when I can do my job and make good money without one?


I pity you. You have literally no idea what you've missed out on.
 
2012-09-26 05:07:11 PM  

Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.

So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?


Not sure exactly what you are saying but I think I agree.

Corporate investments are subject to two taxes, gains on sales of second homes and commodities aren't. So I would agree that those cap gains should be taxed at ordinary rates. If that's what you are saying.
 
2012-09-26 05:07:18 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I think the things I missed out on most are the parties and meeting girls though.


Not even close.
 
2012-09-26 05:11:06 PM  

3StratMan: Hmm. President hides what he knew about an illegal operation that gets an American killed and he's regarded as a hero. Nice. Like to see Bush try that.


What, an American dies in the line of duty, fighting illegal operations, and you don't want to consider him a hero?

Why do you hate America!!1!
 
2012-09-26 05:12:32 PM  

impaler: The_Six_Fingered_Man: So we're now stretching "effective tax rate" to include FICA payments from wages, despite them not being reported on the 1040?

No. Federal tax rate has always included FICA, because it's a federal tax.

But hey, what does the Congressional Budget Office know? Amirite?
[growlersoftware.com image 638x491]
/www.cbo.gov


Um, effective tax rate has never included FICA. Do you know why? Because it is calculated as total taxes owed on the 1040 divided by the adjusted gross income (or taxable income depending on your flavor of CPA). FICA for wage slaves is not included in total taxes owed on the 1040, unless unreported from forms 4917 or 8919 (going off memory here, those form numbers may be slightly off). The likliehood of a wage slave using those forms is so small that in my years of doing returns, I have never once used that line on the return.

Even the Tax Foundation thinks it's silly to include FICA in the calculations:

"In their article Romney Bows on Tax Rate Queries, Washington Post reporters Philip Rucker and Rosalind S. Helderman mistakenly compare Romney's average effective income tax rate to the average total federal tax rate paid by other Americans and, thus, give the false impression that Romney pays a lower rate than the typical American.

In the story, Romney admits that he "never paid less than 13 percent" of his income to the IRS in income taxes. To contrast how low Romney's average income tax rate is, the reporters cite a recent Congressional Budget Office report indicating that the average federal tax rate paid by all Americans in 2009 was 17.4 percent. The print version is also accompanied by a graphic showing the average federal tax rate paid by each income quintile. [The source of this chart is the Tax Policy Center]. It shows that the average federal rate paid by the middle quintile was 13 percent. Thus, conclude the reporters, "Romney pays a lower effective tax rate than many middle-class families."

This conclusion is wrong. The CBO data the reporters cite is for all federal taxes - not just income taxes. This measure includes everything from income taxes and payroll taxes to corporate taxes and excise taxes. To compare someone's income tax burden to the total tax burden paid by everyone is a classic case of comparing apples and oranges."
 
2012-09-26 05:14:02 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.

So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?

Not sure exactly what you are saying but I think I agree.

Corporate investments are subject to two taxes, gains on sales of second homes and commodities aren't. So I would agree that those cap gains should be taxed at ordinary rates. If that's what you are saying.


I'm saying double taxation on corporate profits is a myth the proof being they are taxed at the same rate as gains on the sale of other types of investment.
 
2012-09-26 05:14:12 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.


Look, you hamster-brained moron, income you receive is your income even if you receive it from investments.

That money has been taxed repeatedly in multiple handoffs between other parties before it ever made it to the revenue sheet of whatever farking company Charles farking Schwab invests for you when you're not making loads of money playing the penny stock market trades you find in yahoo finance.

When you get handed that money, you get taxed. When you spend that shiat buying more Nickelback CDs you pay yet another tax. OH NOES! TAXED AGAIN! fark PAYING TO MAINTAIN THAT farkING STREET! shiat, just pop another Adderall and everything will be fine.
 
2012-09-26 05:15:05 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.

So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?

Not sure exactly what you are saying but I think I agree.

Corporate investments are subject to two taxes, gains on sales of second homes and commodities aren't. So I would agree that those cap gains should be taxed at ordinary rates. If that's what you are saying.


farm1.staticflickr.com
 
2012-09-26 05:15:11 PM  
In addition, a data release from the IRS has this to say:

http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf

While changes in rates are always interesting to
note, they should not be viewed independently of
other changes in law. Some of these changes are
listed above. Often such changes accompany the
changes in rates, which, in combination, determine an
individual's effective tax rate (defined as total income tax after credits as a percentage of income).

Anyone who is including FICA in their comparison of Romney's rate to their own is being dishonest. That includes bloggers who write for Forbes.
 
2012-09-26 05:15:33 PM  

Fart_Machine: 3StratMan: Just showing another example of one of the many things that you lefties try to use against the right that your guy is usually guilty of.

Obama released over a decade of tax returns. Did Romney do this while our backs were turned?


$40K/year income here. Pay my taxes annually. Not a rat's ass given about Romney's taxes. The major problems of the country kinda bother me, though. I guess I'm just misguided. Call me crazy.
 
2012-09-26 05:17:13 PM  

3StratMan: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.


'Ol Rufus isn't spinning. He provided a quote.

You're the moron trying to apply spin here. Re-read you little missive above. Who's spinning?
 
2012-09-26 05:17:16 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: impaler: The_Six_Fingered_Man: So we're now stretching "effective tax rate" to include FICA payments from wages, despite them not being reported on the 1040?

No. Federal tax rate has always included FICA, because it's a federal tax.

But hey, what does the Congressional Budget Office know? Amirite?
[growlersoftware.com image 638x491]
/www.cbo.gov

Um, effective tax rate has never included FICA. Do you know why? Because it is calculated as total taxes owed on the 1040 divided by the adjusted gross income (or taxable income depending on your flavor of CPA). FICA for wage slaves is not included in total taxes owed on the 1040, unless unreported from forms 4917 or 8919 (going off memory here, those form numbers may be slightly off). The likliehood of a wage slave using those forms is so small that in my years of doing returns, I have never once used that line on the return.

Even the Tax Foundation thinks it's silly to include FICA in the calculations:

"In their article Romney Bows on Tax Rate Queries, Washington Post reporters Philip Rucker and Rosalind S. Helderman mistakenly compare Romney's average effective income tax rate to the average total federal tax rate paid by other Americans and, thus, give the false impression that Romney pays a lower rate than the typical American.

In the story, Romney admits that he "never paid less than 13 percent" of his income to the IRS in income taxes. To contrast how low Romney's average income tax rate is, the reporters cite a recent Congressional Budget Office report indicating that the average federal tax rate paid by all Americans in 2009 was 17.4 percent. The print version is also accompanied by a graphic showing the average federal tax rate paid by each income quintile. [The source of this chart is the Tax Policy Center]. It shows that the average federal rate paid by the middle quintile was 13 percent. Thus, conclude the reporters, "Romney pays a lower effective tax rate than many middle-class families."

This conclusion is wrong. The CBO data the reporters cite is for all federal taxes - not just income taxes. This measure includes everything from income taxes and payroll taxes to corporate taxes and excise taxes. To compare someone's income tax burden to the total tax burden paid by everyone is a classic case of comparing apples and oranges."


What do you know? You only have your job because people are math phobic. Once more folks sign up for HRblocks three week tax preparation seminar you'll be out of a job and on the street sucking dick for adding machine tape and green eyeshade visors.
 
2012-09-26 05:18:09 PM  

3StratMan: And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.


I hate to break it to you but that 47% he mentioned includes seniors and the military. But if he wants to dump those two groups then by all means...
 
2012-09-26 05:18:24 PM  

sinanju: Debeo Summa Credo: Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.

So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?

Not sure exactly what you are saying but I think I agree.

Corporate investments are subject to two taxes, gains on sales of second homes and commodities aren't. So I would agree that those cap gains should be taxed at ordinary rates. If that's what you are saying.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 366x500]


that's the great thing about double taxation of dividends deniers. They admit it while denying it.
 
2012-09-26 05:18:59 PM  
I pay a 22% average rate, not counting FICA.

I'm in disbelief that Romney thinks I ought to be paying a higher rate than he does. It simply does not fit in my brain.
 
2012-09-26 05:20:16 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: What do you know? You only have your job because people are math phobic. Once more folks sign up for HRblocks three week tax preparation seminar you'll be out of a job and on the street sucking dick for adding machine tape and green eyeshade visors.


And that has what to do with the topic at hand?

Besides, if my clients want to trust their returns to someone who took H&R Block's three week course, then they get exactly what they deserve. But they don't, because the recognize the extra level of service I provide to them, mainly you know, being available more than 6 weeks a year.

/Something tells me, however, that you forgot to log into your alt.
 
2012-09-26 05:20:21 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: 3StratMan: Hmm. President hides what he knew about an illegal operation that gets an American killed and he's regarded as a hero. Nice. Like to see Bush try that.

What, an American dies in the line of duty, fighting illegal operations, and you don't want to consider him a hero?

Why do you hate America!!1!


Except that illegal operation was being conducted by OUR government, and Obama is being treated like the hero. You farking knew that's what I meant. Or else you're not as smart as you want us to think.
 
2012-09-26 05:20:49 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I don't give a shiat about a degree let alone be insecure about it. Why should I when I can do my job and make good money without one?

I pity you. You have literally no idea what you've missed out on.


I don't want or need your pity. Good for you and your experience. I hope you had a good time and it paid off for you. I don't really care. I was running rivers, snowboarding, and living life with my awesome wife of 21 years. It wasn't until she got pregnant (after 5 years of running rivers, snowboarding and living life with her) that I got a "real" job doing what had been my hobby since that awesome VIC 20 showed up on xmas when I was 12.

/life is still good
//I sing in punk band.
///and have a mohawk among the sea of suits I work with
//I will never grow up to be like you
 
2012-09-26 05:21:05 PM  

sinanju: Debeo Summa Credo: Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.

So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?

Not sure exactly what you are saying but I think I agree.

Corporate investments are subject to two taxes, gains on sales of second homes and commodities aren't. So I would agree that those cap gains should be taxed at ordinary rates. If that's what you are saying.


I love when people post that cartoon thinking it refutes my argument when it actually proves it.

Hint: count how many times the income from the plumbing business and the music store get taxed before it ends up in the pockets of the owners. Then do the same thing for the bank and its owners.
 
2012-09-26 05:21:41 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: NateGrey: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I only have a GED and have been in IT in some fashion for 17 years now and make really pretty good money. It's amazing how many people are just totally clueless when it comes to tech - not just old ones. Programers are the worse. How can someone that knows so much about how to make a computer do something know so little about how they work?

/they are simple machines
//I'm a Solaris admin today with manager in my title
///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school


I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.

I don't give a shiat about a degree let alone be insecure about it. Why should I when I can do my job and make good money without one? I am not like any IT guy you have ever met. I'm not a nerd, I will actually help you and not make you feel stupid, and people like me at least they act like they do and always come to me over others.
The only reason I pointed out I don't have a degree was that it was the topic that I responded to.

/and good looking
//the only social skills I lack is respect for authority
///sounds like you're jealous and still have student loans


lol actually full scholarship.

But keep acting elitist with that GED.

/teehee
 
2012-09-26 05:21:50 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Debeo Summa Credo: What do you know? You only have your job because people are math phobic. Once more folks sign up for HRblocks three week tax preparation seminar you'll be out of a job and on the street sucking dick for adding machine tape and green eyeshade visors.

And that has what to do with the topic at hand?


he was just making a joke referencing some douche who had a melt down up thread, it wasn't an actual insult.
 
2012-09-26 05:22:27 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: sinanju: Debeo Summa Credo: Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.

So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?

Not sure exactly what you are saying but I think I agree.

Corporate investments are subject to two taxes, gains on sales of second homes and commodities aren't. So I would agree that those cap gains should be taxed at ordinary rates. If that's what you are saying.

I love when people post that cartoon thinking it refutes my argument when it actually proves it.

Hint: count how many times the income from the plumbing business and the music store get taxed before it ends up in the pockets of the owners. Then do the same thing for the bank and its owners.


something something legally different structure to the business in question therefore no double taxation something
 
2012-09-26 05:22:36 PM  

Fart_Machine: 3StratMan: And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

I hate to break it to you but that 47% he mentioned includes seniors and the military. But if he wants to dump those two groups then by all means...


Um, no, Spinny McSpinmaster.
 
2012-09-26 05:23:44 PM  
NateGrey:

media.dcentertainment.com

My 11-year-old son reads Mad, and all you have to do is say "Mitt Romney" in front of him and he laughs like it's the funniest thing in the world.
 
2012-09-26 05:23:50 PM  

Headso: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Debeo Summa Credo: What do you know? You only have your job because people are math phobic. Once more folks sign up for HRblocks three week tax preparation seminar you'll be out of a job and on the street sucking dick for adding machine tape and green eyeshade visors.

And that has what to do with the topic at hand?

he was just making a joke referencing some douche who had a melt down up thread, it wasn't an actual insult.


My apologies then. I didn't read the nonsense in the thread.
 
2012-09-26 05:24:10 PM  

3StratMan: Fart_Machine: 3StratMan: And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

I hate to break it to you but that 47% he mentioned includes seniors and the military. But if he wants to dump those two groups then by all means...

Um, no, Spinny McSpinmaster.


of course it does. Cut it out.
 
2012-09-26 05:24:41 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Debeo Summa Credo: What do you know? You only have your job because people are math phobic. Once more folks sign up for HRblocks three week tax preparation seminar you'll be out of a job and on the street sucking dick for adding machine tape and green eyeshade visors.

And that has what to do with the topic at hand?

Besides, if my clients want to trust their returns to someone who took H&R Block's three week course, then they get exactly what they deserve. But they don't, because the recognize the extra level of service I provide to them, mainly you know, being available more than 6 weeks a year.

/Something tells me, however, that you forgot to log into your alt.


No, just a swing and a miss at humor. I was being completely facetious and trying to make a joke regarding other correspondence upthread.

I agree with your post and always find your comments worthwhile.
 
2012-09-26 05:25:14 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Headso: The_Six_Fingered_Man: Debeo Summa Credo: What do you know? You only have your job because people are math phobic. Once more folks sign up for HRblocks three week tax preparation seminar you'll be out of a job and on the street sucking dick for adding machine tape and green eyeshade visors.

And that has what to do with the topic at hand?

he was just making a joke referencing some douche who had a melt down up thread, it wasn't an actual insult.

My apologies then. I didn't read the nonsense in the thread.


you should. It's like someone actually came out and said "I am jealous of this group of people therefore they are unskilled factory workers of the 21st century."
 
2012-09-26 05:25:25 PM  

3StratMan: Fart_Machine: 3StratMan: And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

I hate to break it to you but that 47% he mentioned includes seniors and the military. But if he wants to dump those two groups then by all means...

Um, no, Spinny McSpinmaster. U


FIFY
 
2012-09-26 05:26:00 PM  

dr_blasto: 3StratMan: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.

'Ol Rufus isn't spinning. He provided a quote.

You're the moron trying to apply spin here. Re-read you little missive above. Who's spinning?

"I'm not concerned about the very poor."

Citation, please. Where and when was that "quote " from?
 
2012-09-26 05:26:03 PM  

skullkrusher: sinanju: Debeo Summa Credo: Headso: Debeo Summa Credo: You're another one of those assholes that thinks taxes on dividends or capital gains from investment sales represent double taxation in spite of reality, aren't you?

Not in spite of reality. IN reality, you dumb fark.

So selling a second home you make out like a bandit and stick it to the man because you were not double taxed but on income from corporate profits you are?

Not sure exactly what you are saying but I think I agree.

Corporate investments are subject to two taxes, gains on sales of second homes and commodities aren't. So I would agree that those cap gains should be taxed at ordinary rates. If that's what you are saying.

[farm1.staticflickr.com image 366x500]

that's the great thing about double taxation of dividends deniers. They admit it while denying it.


I can't get behind your thesis that when you accept cash payment from dividends (your income) that this means you are taxed a second time.

The company you invested in was taxed.

The company you invested in gave you money.

You are taxed.
 
2012-09-26 05:26:16 PM  

karnal: The disparity between your posts and how much I actually care is in direct proportion to the size of your over exaggerated ego.


www.frontroomcinema.com

much?
 
2012-09-26 05:26:17 PM  

sammythefish: impaler: sammythefish: Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?

They are adding them to Romney's. He only has a FICA rate of around 1.5%. It's apples to apples.

There are no federal property or sales taxes.

Citation needed.


Sorry. My bad. I forgot one doesn't pay FICA on income from investments. His actual FICA rate is 0.167%. Not the massive 1.5% I said he paid (SS is capped, I just assumed he paid the medicare rate of 1.45%).

growlersoftware.com
 
2012-09-26 05:26:42 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: Then do the same thing for the bank and its owners.


in your claim of the cartoon being wrong is the bank as an entity and it's owners the same thing?
 
2012-09-26 05:29:02 PM  

3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.

'Ol Rufus isn't spinning. He provided a quote.

You're the moron trying to apply spin here. Re-read you little missive above. Who's spinning?

"I'm not concerned about the very poor." Citation, please. Where and when was that "quote " from?


Link
 
2012-09-26 05:29:19 PM  

GAT_00: Some variant of blue please, thank you very much.


Blue 3 it is.
 
2012-09-26 05:34:33 PM  

NateGrey: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: NateGrey: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I only have a GED and have been in IT in some fashion for 17 years now and make really pretty good money. It's amazing how many people are just totally clueless when it comes to tech - not just old ones. Programers are the worse. How can someone that knows so much about how to make a computer do something know so little about how they work?

/they are simple machines
//I'm a Solaris admin today with manager in my title
///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school


I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.

I don't give a shiat about a degree let alone be insecure about it. Why should I when I can do my job and make good money without one? I am not like any IT guy you have ever met. I'm not a nerd, I will actually help you and not make you feel stupid, and people like me at least they act like they do and always come to me over others.
The only reason I pointed out I don't have a degree was that it was the topic that I responded to.

/and good looking
//the only social skills I lack is respect for authority
///sounds like you're jealous and still have student loans

lol actually full scholarship.

But keep acting elitist with that GED.

/teehee


Wow. You must be rilly smrt or somthin
Your scholarship doesn't impress me any more than my GED impresses you. It's cool you got to finish high school and go to collage and not drop out to work full time because your mom was farked and you HAD to move out of that environment.

/got the GED before my class even graduated
//sure have used a lot of slashies lately
 
2012-09-26 05:35:56 PM  

dr_blasto: I can't get behind your thesis that when you accept cash payment from dividends (your income) that this means you are taxed a second time.

The company you invested in was taxed.

The company you invested in gave you money.

You are taxed.


the corporation is wholly owned by the shareholders. The revenue is taxed when the corporation earns it. Whatever is left over is the property of the shareholders collectively. Taxing the disbursement of that profit is taxing the same earnings twice. It is very much unlike all of the other examples. If the plumber's company paid taxes on the money and then the plumber paid taxes on whatever was left over when he took it out of the plumbing company's bank account to buy some CDs, that would be somewhat analogous. It's not a matter of whether it is just or fair or whatever, but it is what it is.

Personally I'd like to see dividends be deductible from corporate taxes and be fully taxed as ordinary income when disbursed but that's outside of the topic.
 
2012-09-26 05:36:05 PM  

Wooly Bully: NateGrey:

media.dcentertainment.com

My 11-year-old son reads Mad, and all you have to do is say "Mitt Romney" in front of him and he laughs like it's the funniest thing in the world.


lol that's awesome

The mr burns quotes is one of my faves.
 
2012-09-26 05:37:11 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf - Titled "Personal Exemptions and Individual Income Tax
Rates
, 1913-2002"
...
individual's effective tax rate (defined as total income tax after credits as a percentage of income).


Wow, a document on INCOME tax rates, says the tax rate is income taxes/AGI!!!

Dumbarse.
 
2012-09-26 05:39:03 PM  

impaler: sammythefish: impaler: sammythefish: Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?

They are adding them to Romney's. He only has a FICA rate of around 1.5%. It's apples to apples.

There are no federal property or sales taxes.

Citation needed.

Sorry. My bad. I forgot one doesn't pay FICA on income from investments. His actual FICA rate is 0.167%. Not the massive 1.5% I said he paid (SS is capped, I just assumed he paid the medicare rate of 1.45%).

[growlersoftware.com image 850x728]


Explain to me like I'm an idiot.

So, Romney's inflated 13% effective tax rate, (which is actually about 10% when he files an amended return and gets all his charitable contributions back), also contains this FICA contribution, correct? So, Mitt's tax return contains both individual income tax, and the FICA tax, and is what he bases his effective rate on, correct?
 
2012-09-26 05:39:15 PM  

dr_blasto: 3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.

'Ol Rufus isn't spinning. He provided a quote.

You're the moron trying to apply spin here. Re-read you little missive above. Who's spinning?

"I'm not concerned about the very poor." Citation, please. Where and when was that "quote " from?

Link


Yeah, well how about the WHOLE quote. "I'm not concerned about the very poor," the Republican presidential candidate said on CNN Wednesday morning. "There's a safety net there, and if it needs repair I'll fix it." As in the government has them covered, which it does, so more focus should be on people who are aren't getting help from anywhere. Which kinda makes sense. If the ship's sinking, you help the people who are swimming before you give a bigger lifeboat to people who are already in a lifeboat to begin with.
 
2012-09-26 05:41:10 PM  

3StratMan: Vlad_the_Inaner: 3StratMan: Hmm. President hides what he knew about an illegal operation that gets an American killed and he's regarded as a hero. Nice. Like to see Bush try that.

What, an American dies in the line of duty, fighting illegal operations, and you don't want to consider him a hero?

Why do you hate America!!1!

Except that illegal operation was being conducted by OUR government, and Obama is being treated like the hero. You farking knew that's what I meant. Or else you're not as smart as you want us to think.


Actually, there were two illegal operations. One a straw purchase, was not done by the Government. This may come as a shock to you, but in the course of investigations, sometimes a crime is detected and not immediately swooped down on as to further the investigation. The other, a murder of a border guard was also not done by the government. That is only tangentially connected to Fast and Furious (i.e, if F&F didn't exist, the murder would probably have had a gun anyway). The names of the people indicted for that are already disclosed.

But don't let me rain on your dreams of impending impeachment. At least this time I won't have to explain to my kid what a BJ is if he happens to listen to the news.
 
2012-09-26 05:42:23 PM  

skullkrusher: something something legally different structure to the business in question therefore no double taxation something


I forgot about that.

Remove the corporate income tax, and also the limited liability of corporations.
 
2012-09-26 05:43:20 PM  

impaler: skullkrusher: something something legally different structure to the business in question therefore no double taxation something

I forgot about that.

Remove the corporate income tax, and also the limited liability of corporations.


not gonna get an argument from me about that but double taxation is still double taxation
 
2012-09-26 05:43:23 PM  

skullkrusher: Taxing the disbursement of that profit is taxing the same earnings twice.


Those corporate taxes might instead be transferred to employees in the form of lower wages or the consumer in the form of higher prices. It's pretty tenuous to try and say that it's all passed unto the investor.
 
2012-09-26 05:44:07 PM  

skullkrusher: Personally I'd like to see dividends be deductible from corporate taxes and be fully taxed as ordinary income when disbursed but that's outside of the topic.


That I agree with.
 
2012-09-26 05:44:37 PM  

Vlad_the_Inaner: 3StratMan: Vlad_the_Inaner: 3StratMan: Hmm. President hides what he knew about an illegal operation that gets an American killed and he's regarded as a hero. Nice. Like to see Bush try that.

What, an American dies in the line of duty, fighting illegal operations, and you don't want to consider him a hero?

Why do you hate America!!1!

Except that illegal operation was being conducted by OUR government, and Obama is being treated like the hero. You farking knew that's what I meant. Or else you're not as smart as you want us to think.

Actually, there were two illegal operations. One a straw purchase, was not done by the Government. This may come as a shock to you, but in the course of investigations, sometimes a crime is detected and not immediately swooped down on as to further the investigation. The other, a murder of a border guard was also not done by the government. That is only tangentially connected to Fast and Furious (i.e, if F&F didn't exist, the murder would probably have had a gun anyway). The names of the people indicted for that are already disclosed.

But don't let me rain on your dreams of impending impeachment. At least this time I won't have to explain to my kid what a BJ is if he happens to listen to the news.


Don't stop believin'!
 
2012-09-26 05:44:37 PM  

3StratMan: As in the government has them covered, which it does


Yup, the very poor are totally covered.

/facepalm
 
2012-09-26 05:44:56 PM  

3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.

'Ol Rufus isn't spinning. He provided a quote.

You're the moron trying to apply spin here. Re-read you little missive above. Who's spinning?

"I'm not concerned about the very poor." Citation, please. Where and when was that "quote " from?

Link

Yeah, well how about the WHOLE quote. "I'm not concerned about the very poor," the Republican presidential candidate said on CNN Wednesday morning. "There's a safety net there, and if it needs repair I'll fix it." As in the government has them covered, which it does, so more focus should be on people who are aren't getting help from anywhere. Which kinda makes sense. If the ship's sinking, you help the people who ...


He still didn't spin.

You didn't build that.
 
2012-09-26 05:45:15 PM  

impaler: The_Six_Fingered_Man: http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/02inpetr.pdf - Titled "Personal Exemptions and Individual Income Tax
Rates, 1913-2002"
...
individual's effective tax rate (defined as total income tax after credits as a percentage of income).

Wow, a document on INCOME tax rates, says the tax rate is income taxes/AGI!!!

Dumbarse.


Um, is this not what we are talking about? Is the number for Romney's effective rate not gleaned from his income tax return?

If not, what fantasy land have I woken up in and can you please direct me to the nearest exit?

Truly, this is mindboggling.

I cannot honestly fathom how you do not understand the simple concept of an effective tax rate in this context and how FICA is not included in the calculations. You continue to froth at the mouth and it truly getting you nowhere at all.

Put simply, this is what I do. It's my job to know the definitions of tax terms. I'll put this as simply and kindly as possible. Those that include FICA paid on wages in their effective tax rate are being dishonest. If you want to include it in some mystery term like "total effective federal tax and social insurance rate," then fine. But please try not to redefine tax terms to your liking simply to attack a political rival.

It's beneath you.
 
2012-09-26 05:46:21 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: NateGrey: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: NateGrey: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: I only have a GED and have been in IT in some fashion for 17 years now and make really pretty good money. It's amazing how many people are just totally clueless when it comes to tech - not just old ones. Programers are the worse. How can someone that knows so much about how to make a computer do something know so little about how they work?

/they are simple machines
//I'm a Solaris admin today with manager in my title
///lulz @ people who spent tens of thousands going to school


I love meeting you guys in the IT world. So insecure about not having a degree, always quick to point out you did it without school. The social skills you guys have are awesome.

I don't give a shiat about a degree let alone be insecure about it. Why should I when I can do my job and make good money without one? I am not like any IT guy you have ever met. I'm not a nerd, I will actually help you and not make you feel stupid, and people like me at least they act like they do and always come to me over others.
The only reason I pointed out I don't have a degree was that it was the topic that I responded to.

/and good looking
//the only social skills I lack is respect for authority
///sounds like you're jealous and still have student loans

lol actually full scholarship.

But keep acting elitist with that GED.

/teehee

Wow. You must be rilly smrt or somthin
Your scholarship doesn't impress me any more than my GED impresses you. It's cool you got to finish high school and go to collage and not drop out to work full time because your mom was farked and you HAD to move out of that environment.

/got the GED before my class even graduated
//sure have used a lot of slashies lately


Sounds like you got through some tough times through hard work. Good for you. Not sure why you felt it was necessary to laugh at people who spend money on school though. :/
 
2012-09-26 05:48:28 PM  

Fart_Machine: 3StratMan: As in the government has them covered, which it does

Yup, the very poor are totally covered.

/facepalm


HA! Not only are they covered, but their numbers have actually GROWN in the last 4 years! Awesome!

I know, I know- "We can never spend too much on the poor". Surprised that "But Bush" hasn't popped up yet.
 
2012-09-26 05:48:36 PM  

skullkrusher: dr_blasto: I can't get behind your thesis that when you accept cash payment from dividends (your income) that this means you are taxed a second time.

The company you invested in was taxed.

The company you invested in gave you money.

You are taxed.

the corporation is wholly owned by the shareholders. The revenue is taxed when the corporation earns it. Whatever is left over is the property of the shareholders collectively. Taxing the disbursement of that profit is taxing the same earnings twice. It is very much unlike all of the other examples. If the plumber's company paid taxes on the money and then the plumber paid taxes on whatever was left over when he took it out of the plumbing company's bank account to buy some CDs, that would be somewhat analogous. It's not a matter of whether it is just or fair or whatever, but it is what it is.

Personally I'd like to see dividends be deductible from corporate taxes and be fully taxed as ordinary income when disbursed but that's outside of the topic.


Whatever is left belongs to the company. The shareholders own said company, but "something something legally different structure to the business in question therefore no double taxation something" separates them from that company so they aren't individually and personally liable for actions of the company.

If said shareholders were legally personally liable for all actions of that company, then, well sure. Double tax it is.
 
2012-09-26 05:49:26 PM  

Fart_Machine: skullkrusher: Taxing the disbursement of that profit is taxing the same earnings twice.

Those corporate taxes might instead be transferred to employees in the form of lower wages or the consumer in the form of higher prices. It's pretty tenuous to try and say that it's all passed unto the investor.


what's left over after the cost of operations is taxed. Then it is taxed again when the people who own that money get the check. Whether it is compensated for by higher product prices or lower wages is immaterial to that
 
2012-09-26 05:50:03 PM  

dr_blasto: 3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.

'Ol Rufus isn't spinning. He provided a quote.

You're the moron trying to apply spin here. Re-read you little missive above. Who's spinning?

"I'm not concerned about the very poor." Citation, please. Where and when was that "quote " from?

Link

Yeah, well how about the WHOLE quote. "I'm not concerned about the very poor," the Republican presidential candidate said on CNN Wednesday morning. "There's a safety net there, and if it needs repair I'll fix it." As in the government has them covered, which it does, so more focus should be on people who are aren't getting help from anywhere. Which kinda makes sense. If the ship's sinking, you help the ...


You don't have to spin when you leave half the quote out of your statement.
 
2012-09-26 05:50:23 PM  

dr_blasto: If said shareholders were legally personally liable for all actions of that company, then, well sure. Double tax it is.


you basically just said it is a double tax but since shareholders are not liable for all actions of the company then it isn't. That doesn't make any sense. It either is or it is not. It is.
 
2012-09-26 05:50:41 PM  

3StratMan: HA! Not only are they covered, but their numbers have actually GROWN in the last 4 years! Awesome!


So standard of living and population increases are two other subjects you don't understand.
 
2012-09-26 05:53:48 PM  

skullkrusher: Fart_Machine: skullkrusher: Taxing the disbursement of that profit is taxing the same earnings twice.

Those corporate taxes might instead be transferred to employees in the form of lower wages or the consumer in the form of higher prices. It's pretty tenuous to try and say that it's all passed unto the investor.

what's left over after the cost of operations is taxed. Then it is taxed again when the people who own that money get the check. Whether it is compensated for by higher product prices or lower wages is immaterial to that


The people who get the check are being taxed at one rate and the company are usually two different entities. And yes the company can offset to pass those taxes to other areas other than the investor.
 
2012-09-26 05:54:52 PM  

Fart_Machine: Those corporate taxes might instead be transferred to employees in the form of lower wages or the consumer in the form of higher prices. It's pretty tenuous to try and say that it's all passed unto the investor.


Corporations don't pay taxes, they're passed onto the consumer. Everyone knows that.

Of course that means it's the guy buying the DVD that is being double taxed, not the record company's shareholders.
 
2012-09-26 05:55:59 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: I cannot honestly fathom how you do not understand the simple concept of an effective tax rate in this context and how FICA is not included in the calculations. You continue to froth at the mouth and it truly getting you nowhere at all.


His FICA is nearly non-existent. Go ahead. Add his 0.17% rate in and recompute.
 
2012-09-26 05:56:12 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: [ defensive rant ]

/life is still good
//I sing in punk band.
///and have a mohawk among the sea of suits I work with
//I will never grow up to be like you


Like me? LO farking L.

Kid, I'm glad you're still rocking the hawk and all but I did punk / death rock / goth through the 80s and 90s, toured, met the big names in the small pond, and still went to university and spent six years effectively rooting through mother nature's panty drawer via physics/astrophysics before making phat loot in the .com boom/bust. Now I work from home for a measly six figures. You could do a lot worse.

I figured you for a punk since you have a DK lyric in your login. Pro-tip: If you ever hang out with Jello, never, and I mean *never*, ask about his various law suits. He will not shut the fark up.
 
2012-09-26 05:57:57 PM  

The_Six_Fingered_Man: Put simply, this is what I do. It's my job to know the definitions of tax terms. I'll put this as simply and kindly as possible. Those that include FICA paid on wages in their effective tax rate are being dishonest. If you want to include it in some mystery term like "total effective federal tax and social insurance rate," then fine. But please try not to redefine tax terms to your liking simply to attack a political rival.


"Effective federal tax and social insurance rate" is redundant.

I didn't make this image, the Congressional Budget Office did:

growlersoftware.com
 
2012-09-26 05:58:52 PM  
Taxes can't always be passed along to the consumer if the intermediate consumer cannot increase his prices due to a little thing called price elasticity resistance. Just saying.
 
2012-09-26 05:59:24 PM  

NateGrey: Sounds like you got through some tough times through hard work. Good for you. Not sure why you felt it was necessary to laugh at people who spend money on school though. :/


Cuz it's easy to be a jerk on fark. Believe it or not I do have a lot of respect for people (and you) who put in that time to go to school.
I did try to go but things just didn't quite work out that way. I didn't have the money although I could have borrowed. I went to work for an outfitter running rivers in the summer and painting in the winter to be able to snowboard. I was lazy, but also wasn't because I have worked hard in my life to make it where I am, but yeah I was.
Things just fell into place and I am lucky someone took a chance on me and it worked out so well.
/so much in life is luck
 
2012-09-26 06:00:24 PM  

skullkrusher: you basically just said it is a double tax but since shareholders are not liable for all actions of the company then it isn't.


It's like the company is a completely separate individual... A "person" if you will.

Shareholders get all of the profits, but none of the debt.
 
2012-09-26 06:01:08 PM  

skullkrusher: dr_blasto: If said shareholders were legally personally liable for all actions of that company, then, well sure. Double tax it is.

you basically just said it is a double tax but since shareholders are not liable for all actions of the company then it isn't. That doesn't make any sense. It either is or it is not. It is.


I'm simply stating that the company is one thing and the shareholders are another. They are taxed independently of one another because they are independent. You buy a share in a company. That company uses that money to do whatever it does and somehow makes a profit. The company is taxed on that profit. Now, the board decides to take undispersed profits after reinvesting or whatever and turns that money over to you, the shareholder. The money changed hands and is therefore taxed; the company no longer has any claim to that money and its ownership has transferred.
 
2012-09-26 06:02:19 PM  

3StratMan: Don't stop believin'!


Then you'll be happy to know that according to Link on CA-49.

"Sep 23 Darrell Issa is ahead of Jerry Tetalman by an average of 1.1e+08 percent"

10 million percent is a very impressive lead, and I suspect Tetalman will be hard pressed to catch up by election day.
 
2012-09-26 06:04:04 PM  

3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: dr_blasto: 3StratMan: rufus-t-firefly: 3StratMan: Headso: 3StratMan:
"There are 47 percent of the people who will vote for the president no matter what. All right -- there are 47 percent who are with him, who are dependent on government, who believe that, that they are victims, who believe that government has the responsibility to care for them. Who believe that they are entitled to health care, to food, to housing."
- Willard Mitt Romney


"I'm not concerned about the very poor."
- Willard Mitt Romney


So what part of the first statement is untrue? That's the platform your President has been running on for some time now.

And as far as the second statement, That's not what he said, and you know that's not what he meant. You're smart enough to know what he really meant and what he really was saying, but let me clarify: He was saying that he will never change the minds of 47% of the voters, who are committed to Obama no matter what, so he's not going to worry about trying to get them to vote for him because they never will- he is concentrating on trying to get the undecided voters to vote for him. And I would imagine that is pretty much the strategy of every politician that is running for office anyway.

Keep on spinning it, though. There's always someone out there willing to take the ride.

'Ol Rufus isn't spinning. He provided a quote.

You're the moron trying to apply spin here. Re-read you little missive above. Who's spinning?

"I'm not concerned about the very poor." Citation, please. Where and when was that "quote " from?

Link

Yeah, well how about the WHOLE quote. "I'm not concerned about the very poor," the Republican presidential candidate said on CNN Wednesday morning. "There's a safety net there, and if it needs repair I'll fix it." As in the government has them covered, which it does, so more focus should be on people who are aren't getting help from anywhere. Which kinda makes sense. If the ship's sinking, y ...


Again, you didn't build that.

He posted it without comment, right?
 
2012-09-26 06:05:04 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: [ defensive rant ]

/life is still good
//I sing in punk band.
///and have a mohawk among the sea of suits I work with
//I will never grow up to be like you

Like me? LO farking L.

Kid, I'm glad you're still rocking the hawk and all but I did punk / death rock / goth through the 80s and 90s, toured, met the big names in the small pond, and still went to university and spent six years effectively rooting through mother nature's panty drawer via physics/astrophysics before making phat loot in the .com boom/bust. Now I work from home for a measly six figures. You could do a lot worse.

I figured you for a punk since you have a DK lyric in your login. Pro-tip: If you ever hang out with Jello, never, and I mean *never*, ask about his various law suits. He will not shut the fark up.


Not sure I'm a kid at 42. First punk show was TSOL in 1984.
DK was the biggest show I ever went too. And I threw up in the pit and all over the front of some girl. How punk rock is that?

/nice to meet you man
//like I just told NateGray I do have a lot of respect for you guys actually going through and completing that.
///Ill remember that about Jello
 
2012-09-26 06:05:31 PM  

RyogaM: So, Romney's inflated 13% effective tax rate, (which is actually about 10% when he files an amended return and gets all his charitable contributions back), also contains this FICA contribution, correct? So, Mitt's tax return contains both individual income tax, and the FICA tax, and is what he bases his effective rate on, correct?


In Romney's case FICA is trivial when compared with his total income. Romney is at a point on the wealth spectrum where he could spend a year sunning himself on the beaches of Kawaii and still pay about 13% in taxes.
 
2012-09-26 06:10:46 PM  
that's actually the problem. the only people that pay anything significant are people with no kids and no mortgage who also make a decent salary. there are very few of them. the mortgage interest, student loan interet, child, and child care deductions for people who are making decent money are insane. subsidies for people that are not poor for any reason are crazy unless we are trying to encourage something that normally wouldn;t be undertaken. these are just handouts we can't afford to 70% of the population that doesn't need them. my brother and his wife earn around $100k I think, and they have 3 kids and a fat mortgage, so they only pay probably 2% a year. we can't run a country when no one pays jackshiat.

we average like 1.2 trillion in income taxes now a days.
/that's not to say mitt's taxes are too high, he needs to be paying about 45%.
 
2012-09-26 06:11:53 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: Monkeyhouse Zendo: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: [ defensive rant ]

/life is still good
//I sing in punk band.
///and have a mohawk among the sea of suits I work with
//I will never grow up to be like you

Like me? LO farking L.

Kid, I'm glad you're still rocking the hawk and all but I did punk / death rock / goth through the 80s and 90s, toured, met the big names in the small pond, and still went to university and spent six years effectively rooting through mother nature's panty drawer via physics/astrophysics before making phat loot in the .com boom/bust. Now I work from home for a measly six figures. You could do a lot worse.

I figured you for a punk since you have a DK lyric in your login. Pro-tip: If you ever hang out with Jello, never, and I mean *never*, ask about his various law suits. He will not shut the fark up.

Not sure I'm a kid at 42. First punk show was TSOL in 1984.
DK was the biggest show I ever went too. And I threw up in the pit and all over the front of some girl. How punk rock is that?

/nice to meet you man
//like I just told NateGray I do have a lot of respect for you guys actually going through and completing that.
///Ill remember that about Jello


And NEVER EVER mention DK in any sense anywhere within earshot of Jello. Never.
 
2012-09-26 06:15:35 PM  

dr_blasto: And NEVER EVER mention DK in any sense anywhere within earshot of Jello. Never.


Do you mean don't say dee-kay, or just don't bring up Dead Kennedys in general?
I would much rather talk to him about his spoken word and the Guantanamo School of Medicine anyway.
 
2012-09-26 06:15:37 PM  
Crabs in a bucket. No need for a lid.
 
2012-09-26 06:16:11 PM  
Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.
 
2012-09-26 06:19:42 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: dr_blasto: And NEVER EVER mention DK in any sense anywhere within earshot of Jello. Never.

Do you mean don't say dee-kay, or just don't bring up Dead Kennedys in general?
I would much rather talk to him about his spoken word and the Guantanamo School of Medicine anyway.


Either, well really, neither. He gets pissed and will either start running off at the mouth till you want to leave or he might just take off (which, really, is the better option for you in this circumstance).

Everything else is OK, he's really friendly.
 
2012-09-26 06:20:47 PM  

Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.


you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.
 
2012-09-26 06:27:55 PM  

relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.


People in the $50K-$75K range generally consider FICA to be part of their income tax. Technically it isn't but it's still a tax and you're still paying it to the federal government. Fox was trying to pull a fast one by leaving out FICA which is something like 7.5% (too lazy to look it up).
 
2012-09-26 06:30:12 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.

People in the $50K-$75K range generally consider FICA to be part of their income tax. Technically it isn't but it's still a tax and you're still paying it to the federal government. Fox was trying to pull a fast one by leaving out FICA which is something like 7.5% (too lazy to look it up).


how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?
 
2012-09-26 06:32:57 PM  
Forget taxes, what about all "soft costs" Romney (and his ilk) have leveraged against the average American by moving their jobs overseas?
 
2012-09-26 06:38:10 PM  

dr_blasto: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: dr_blasto: And NEVER EVER mention DK in any sense anywhere within earshot of Jello. Never.

Do you mean don't say dee-kay, or just don't bring up Dead Kennedys in general?
I would much rather talk to him about his spoken word and the Guantanamo School of Medicine anyway.

Either, well really, neither. He gets pissed and will either start running off at the mouth till you want to leave or he might just take off (which, really, is the better option for you in this circumstance).

Everything else is OK, he's really friendly.


Not to keep harping on this off topic topic. But if I was stuck on a desert island with only one thing to listen too, it would be Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables. And what's kind of funny was that I really didn't like them very much in the 80's. I think it was only just because it was trendy or something to like DK and not that I didn't like the music (I know I know it was stupid). It wasn't until I was a little older that I really started to appreciate them and that record really grew on me. It is just such an amazing piece of musical art.
 
2012-09-26 06:45:19 PM  

relcec: Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.

People in the $50K-$75K range generally consider FICA to be part of their income tax. Technically it isn't but it's still a tax and you're still paying it to the federal government. Fox was trying to pull a fast one by leaving out FICA which is something like 7.5% (too lazy to look it up).

how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?


Here's the thing. I and my wife are self-employed. We pay double what the wage monkey's pay (no offense, just trying to make myself feel better about getting reamed). We file, with our income tax form Sched.C and Form SE. Form SE is the FICA, filed with our income tax form, just like the Romney's. It is calculated based on my income, up to the limit. It is a tax. Filed with my income tax. But, for some reason, I'm not supposed to find it odd that I'm paying this 15% on top of the 15% federal income tax, and Mitt's paying 10% and thinks it's too much? Yeah, sell me another one.
 
2012-09-26 06:48:33 PM  

relcec: how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?


People know what it is, they just tend to lump it in with their income tax. Don't be obtuse.
 
2012-09-26 06:51:04 PM  

RyogaM: relcec: Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.

People in the $50K-$75K range generally consider FICA to be part of their income tax. Technically it isn't but it's still a tax and you're still paying it to the federal government. Fox was trying to pull a fast one by leaving out FICA which is something like 7.5% (too lazy to look it up).

how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?

Here's the thing. I and my wife are self-employed. We pay double what the wage monkey's pay (no offense, just trying to make myself feel better about getting reamed). We file, with our income tax form Sched.C and Form SE. Form SE is the FICA, filed with our income tax form, just like the Romney's. It is calculated based on my income, up to the limit. It is a tax. Filed with my income tax. But, for some reason, I'm not supposed to find it odd that I'm paying this 15% on top of the 15% federal income tax, and Mitt's paying 10% and thinks it's too much? Yeah, sell me another one.




here's the thing. I don't get wtf you don't understand about this statement I made like 20 minutes ago: /that's not to say mitt's taxes are too high, he needs to be paying about 45%.
 
2012-09-26 06:57:38 PM  

Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.


You lost that bet
 
2012-09-26 06:57:51 PM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?

People know what it is, they just tend to lump it in with their income tax. Don't be obtuse.


I'm not being obuse. you don't even have the slightest f*cking clue how much the tax is yet you are saying I'm playing dumb intentionally because I don't except that not everyone is as ignorant as you. the majority fo folks are not as ignorant as you. they know income tax is different from FICA. I knew what fica was and what the percentage was and that the company I worked for kicked in the other half when I was 17. jesus.
 
2012-09-26 06:58:56 PM  
The thing I like the most about Romney is the way we're all supposed to understand what he means by what he says, when what he says could mean anything.
 
2012-09-26 07:00:10 PM  

relcec: Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?

People know what it is, they just tend to lump it in with their income tax. Don't be obtuse.

I'm not being obuse. you don't even have the slightest f*cking clue how much the tax is yet you are saying I'm playing dumb intentionally because I don't except that not everyone is as ignorant as you. the majority fo folks are not as ignorant as you. they know income tax is different from FICA. I knew what fica was and what the percentage was and that the company I worked for kicked in the other half when I was 17. jesus.


You're kind of a dick.
 
2012-09-26 07:00:35 PM  

bluelancer03: There is truly no point in arguing this with the 97% of ignorant zealots who compare their INCOME tax rate with his CAPITAL GAINS rate (on investments which have already been taxed at least once).

There's no way for Republicans to win this argument versus so much sheer stupidity. This is misinformation at it's finest.


10/10

The last sentence was perfect (though it doesn't look like anyone got the joke).
 
2012-09-26 07:00:38 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: dr_blasto: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: dr_blasto: And NEVER EVER mention DK in any sense anywhere within earshot of Jello. Never.

Do you mean don't say dee-kay, or just don't bring up Dead Kennedys in general?
I would much rather talk to him about his spoken word and the Guantanamo School of Medicine anyway.

Either, well really, neither. He gets pissed and will either start running off at the mouth till you want to leave or he might just take off (which, really, is the better option for you in this circumstance).

Everything else is OK, he's really friendly.

Not to keep harping on this off topic topic. But if I was stuck on a desert island with only one thing to listen too, it would be Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables. And what's kind of funny was that I really didn't like them very much in the 80's. I think it was only just because it was trendy or something to like DK and not that I didn't like the music (I know I know it was stupid). It wasn't until I was a little older that I really started to appreciate them and that record really grew on me. It is just such an amazing piece of musical art.


I still have the poster from the Bedtime LP.
 
2012-09-26 07:01:19 PM  

Coolfusis: Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.

Effective tax rate, not including payroll tax.


Why would you include payroll tax?
That is completely irrelevant to tax rates paid by each income level

Do you k ow how I know that you don't know what payroll taxes are for?
 
2012-09-26 07:04:49 PM  

dr_blasto: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: dr_blasto: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: dr_blasto: And NEVER EVER mention DK in any sense anywhere within earshot of Jello. Never.

Do you mean don't say dee-kay, or just don't bring up Dead Kennedys in general?
I would much rather talk to him about his spoken word and the Guantanamo School of Medicine anyway.

Either, well really, neither. He gets pissed and will either start running off at the mouth till you want to leave or he might just take off (which, really, is the better option for you in this circumstance).

Everything else is OK, he's really friendly.

Not to keep harping on this off topic topic. But if I was stuck on a desert island with only one thing to listen too, it would be Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables. And what's kind of funny was that I really didn't like them very much in the 80's. I think it was only just because it was trendy or something to like DK and not that I didn't like the music (I know I know it was stupid). It wasn't until I was a little older that I really started to appreciate them and that record really grew on me. It is just such an amazing piece of musical art.

I still have the poster from the Bedtime LP.


/I made the mistake of asking Biafra to sign the poster.
//He got over it
///an HOUR later
////man holds a grudge
 
2012-09-26 07:07:30 PM  

dr_blasto: I still have the poster from the Bedtime LP.


Nice!
I still have the flier from the puke show.
Front side (cut off)
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net

Back side
sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net
 
2012-09-26 07:08:04 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Why would you include payroll tax?
That is completely irrelevant to tax rates paid by each income level


You include them because they are federal taxes, and part of a persons federal tax rate.

SS is capped at around $100,000.
Payroll taxes are paid by those whose income is from investment income.

These are all tied to income level.
 
2012-09-26 07:10:20 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: relcec: Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?

People know what it is, they just tend to lump it in with their income tax. Don't be obtuse.

I'm not being obuse. you don't even have the slightest f*cking clue how much the tax is yet you are saying I'm playing dumb intentionally because I don't except that not everyone is as ignorant as you. the majority fo folks are not as ignorant as you. they know income tax is different from FICA. I knew what fica was and what the percentage was and that the company I worked for kicked in the other half when I was 17. jesus.

You're kind of a dick.


I'm an asshole,
and so is anyone that thinks who thinks the majority of the population is a bunch of dumbasses just because they happen to be ignorant about fairly commonly understood tax.
who the f*ck goes around saying *well I haven't bothered to google or ask anyone on earth a simple question about a tax I get dinged with even though I've seen massive amounts of my income removed from my pocket for about a decade, so I'm gonna just gonna assume everyone must be ignorant like me. furthermore the article is being deceptive in not assuming that everyone is similarly like me.*
I'll tell you who; an asshole.
 
2012-09-26 07:11:35 PM  

impaler: Payroll taxes are paid


Should be "NOT" paid, rather.

I hate that typo.
 
2012-09-26 07:13:07 PM  

relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.


It is bullshiat. HOUSEHOLDS making 50K to 75K per year only pay 7.8%, but that's the total income for the entire family. People making 50K to 75K tend pay a lot more, either because they're single, or there's two of them in a family, boosting the household income to $100K ro $150K.
 
2012-09-26 07:14:54 PM  

tenpoundsofcheese: Why would you include payroll tax?


You see, there's this thing called economics. It says the important thing to measure is the economic activity being taxed and the effective rates on that. The names of the taxes are less important. There's probably books and stuff like that about this at the library.
 
2012-09-26 07:23:23 PM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.

It is bullshiat. HOUSEHOLDS making 50K to 75K per year only pay 7.8%, but that's the total income for the entire family. People making 50K to 75K tend pay a lot more, either because they're single, or there's two of them in a family, boosting the household income to $100K ro $150K.


so you think it is bullshiat, just because, you have a feeling about this one. great. thanks for input.
 
2012-09-26 07:25:34 PM  
and why are all you progressive save the world folks biatching about your piddling tax rates when the conservative asshole, me, says all of us that make a decent income need to pay more a hell of a lot more (by eliminating deductions), and the rich need to pay a whole shiatload more.
why is that? you pricks are why you can't have nice things.
 
2012-09-26 07:30:35 PM  

relcec: and why are all you progressive save the world folks biatching about your piddling tax rates when the conservative asshole, me, says all of us that make a decent income need to pay more a hell of a lot more (by eliminating deductions), and the rich need to pay a whole shiatload more.
why is that? you pricks are why you can't have nice things.


Which deductions?
 
2012-09-26 07:31:35 PM  

relcec: and why are all you progressive save the world folks biatching about your piddling tax rates when the conservative asshole, me, says all of us that make a decent income need to pay more a hell of a lot more (by eliminating deductions), and the rich need to pay a whole shiatload more.
why is that? you pricks are why you can't have nice things.


You feeling alright, buddy?
 
2012-09-26 07:35:43 PM  
Fark this article. Last year, I was single and made under $80K. My effective tax rate was 15.3%. No deductions because I just get a paycheck. Thanks Fox News for once again blowing smoke up my ass.
 
2012-09-26 07:39:37 PM  

relcec: here's the thing. I don't get wtf you don't understand about this statement I made like 20 minutes ago: /that's not to say mitt's taxes are too high, he needs to be paying about 45%.


Ooops. My bad, and I agree.
 
2012-09-26 07:44:47 PM  

impaler: relcec: and why are all you progressive save the world folks biatching about your piddling tax rates when the conservative asshole, me, says all of us that make a decent income need to pay more a hell of a lot more (by eliminating deductions), and the rich need to pay a whole shiatload more.
why is that? you pricks are why you can't have nice things.

Which deductions?


impaler: relcec: and why are all you progressive save the world folks biatching about your piddling tax rates when the conservative asshole, me, says all of us that make a decent income need to pay more a hell of a lot more (by eliminating deductions), and the rich need to pay a whole shiatload more.
why is that? you pricks are why you can't have nice things.

Which deductions?


mortgage, child, child care, at the very least. we should be subsidizing the poor (and in some cases be spending more money on them) and not the middle class. you want government stuff when you are old? you want to go to mars? you want bridges and trains and shiat? good. I want at least some of that stuff too. lets pay for it. and raise the capital gains rate to the top income tax bracket rate and then add 5% for those making substantial money in it. that will help some and at least make things equitable.
 
2012-09-26 07:45:50 PM  

relcec: and why are all you progressive save the world folks biatching about your piddling tax rates when the conservative asshole, me, says all of us that make a decent income need to pay more a hell of a lot more (by eliminating deductions), and the rich need to pay a whole shiatload more.
why is that? you pricks are why you can't have nice things.


2.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-26 07:46:58 PM  

relcec: and why are all you progressive save the world folks biatching about your piddling tax rates when the conservative asshole, me, says all of us that make a decent income need to pay more a hell of a lot more (by eliminating deductions), and the rich need to pay a whole shiatload more.
why is that? you pricks are why you can't have nice things.


As a progressive, I have to say, yeah, I agree. I would have no problem paying higher taxes, if I knew everyone else in my wage range was doing so as well, and we were eliminating debt. I like to argue that one of the major failings of the 1990s, was, when the economy and markets were going gangbusters, we did not take advantage of that economy by raising taxes even more and paying down the deficits even faster. Then, it all got farked to hell in the 2001, when people actually argued we were paying off the debt too quickly. Then, of course, we had unfunded wars. And the economy collapsed.
 
2012-09-26 07:58:56 PM  
Yep, he paid more than me.

/I'M BACK, YOU WHINEY BIATCHES!!1!
 
2012-09-26 08:32:19 PM  
GAT_00 2012-09-26 12:33:32 PM

Kittypie070: codswallop & self evident appendages

The f*ck is this?


It's me, Kittypie.

Think it over, GAT.
 
2012-09-26 08:54:57 PM  

relcec: mortgage, child, child care, at the very least. we should be subsidizing the poor (and in some cases be spending more money on them) and not the middle class. you want government stuff when you are old? you want to go to mars? you want bridges and trains and shiat? good. I want at least some of that stuff too. lets pay for it. and raise the capital gains rate to the top income tax bracket rate and then add 5% for those making substantial money in it. that will help some and at least make things equitable.


I generally agree with that.
 
2012-09-26 09:25:02 PM  

bdub77: Yeah but everyone in the world knows that he'll just file an amended return next year

Nov. 7th.
 
2012-09-26 09:33:22 PM  

impaler: sammythefish: impaler: sammythefish: Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?

They are adding them to Romney's. He only has a FICA rate of around 1.5%. It's apples to apples.

There are no federal property or sales taxes.

Citation needed.

Sorry. My bad. I forgot one doesn't pay FICA on income from investments. His actual FICA rate is 0.167%. Not the massive 1.5% I said he paid (SS is capped, I just assumed he paid the medicare rate of 1.45%).

[growlersoftware.com image 850x728]


I stand corrected. I pulled up a full copy of his tax return and did some calculations:

His actual effective tax, NOT including FICA is 13.95%. With FICA it is 14.1% (which is the number from the article).

If you compare effective tax rates NOT including FICA, the 13.95% number is still more than what the average person pays in the lower 90% of income levels. For a married couple who makes $50,000 (all wages) and does not itemize or have children, their effective tax rate withOUT FICA would be 8.3%. WITH FICA it would be 15.95%.

Numbers used for calculations:

From Romney's tax return:

13709608 line 22 Total tax income, without FICA deduction
1912529 line 55 Total federal income tax without FICA
13.95 effective tax rate NOTincluding FICA
14.4% effective tax rate INCLUDING FICA

For a married couple whose income is 50,000:

50,000 (Total Income)
3825 (FICA)
11900 (Standard Deduction)
7600 (Personal Exemption x2)
30500 (taxable income)
4154 (total tax owed)
Effective tax without FICA: 8.3% (Total tax divided by total income)
Effective tax with FICA: 15.95% (Total tax PLUS FICA divided by total income)
 
2012-09-26 09:40:05 PM  

Tumunga: Yep, he paid more than me.

/I'M BACK, YOU WHINEY BIATCHES!!1!


You left? Welcome back...I guess.
 
2012-09-26 09:41:51 PM  

relcec: I'm not being obuse. you don't even have the slightest f*cking clue how much the tax is yet you are saying I'm playing dumb intentionally because I don't except that not everyone is as ignorant as you. the majority fo folks are not as ignorant as you. they know income tax is different from FICA. I knew what fica was and what the percentage was and that the company I worked for kicked in the other half when I was 17. jesus.


You know, there are decaffeinated brands on the market that taste just as good as the real thing.

I don't pay attention to the percentage because I'm past the cap and have been for years. I basically pay whatever the max is set to that year and as a percentage of my income that's is going to be lower than the FICA rate. It's not a big deal to me so I don't give it a moment's thought. Maybe you sit around the pickle barrel with your buddies and obsess about your tax rates but my experience is that most Americans don't understand how marginal tax rates work let alone distinguish between FICA and federal income tax when they look at their paycheck.
 
2012-09-26 09:45:07 PM  

RyogaM: impaler: sammythefish: impaler: sammythefish: Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?

They are adding them to Romney's. He only has a FICA rate of around 1.5%. It's apples to apples.

There are no federal property or sales taxes.

Citation needed.

Sorry. My bad. I forgot one doesn't pay FICA on income from investments. His actual FICA rate is 0.167%. Not the massive 1.5% I said he paid (SS is capped, I just assumed he paid the medicare rate of 1.45%).

[growlersoftware.com image 850x728]

Explain to me like I'm an idiot.

So, Romney's inflated 13% effective tax rate, (which is actually about 10% when he files an amended return and gets all his charitable contributions back), also contains this FICA contribution, correct? So, Mitt's tax return contains both individual income tax, and the FICA tax, and is what he bases his effective rate on, correct?


No. His effective tax rate without FICA is 13.95%. With FICA it is 14.1%. (You can reference my previous comment for numbers used in calculations)
 
2012-09-26 09:46:32 PM  

Grungehamster: Also, while we're deciding to ignore certain taxes in order to fit a narrative, anyone want to discuss how much Romney pays on money he makes overseas?



I'm all for creating a law that dictates that to be a presidential candidate, less than 1% of that potential candidate's wealth be held in banks and property outside the United States.

I mean, isn't that in the spirit of the law that holds that one can't be president if you're born in a foreign country?
 
2012-09-26 09:49:05 PM  

relcec: The Jami Turman Fan Club: relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.

It is bullshiat. HOUSEHOLDS making 50K to 75K per year only pay 7.8%, but that's the total income for the entire family. People making 50K to 75K tend pay a lot more, either because they're single, or there's two of them in a family, boosting the household income to $100K ro $150K.

so you think it is bullshiat, just because, you have a feeling about this one. great. thanks for input.


Dude, look it up. We've already been through this. Single person, no house, making $50K pays 12.2% per year. Don't make arguments about families if you mean individuals.

I'm not going through this again just because you're late to the party. Go play with a 1040 some time.
 
2012-09-26 10:40:43 PM  

Rev.K: I bet when they say 'rate' they really mean 'actual amount paid'. Let's see if I'm right.


Nah, its percentage. See most people take deductions etc and reduce their effective tax percentage. I own a small business and run my families business, and my effective tax rate at the end of the year is 5%. The business pays about the same some years, other years we reinvest everything and pay nothing. We also employ about half a dozen people on average and pay local and state taxes including about $50k in property tax which raises the 0-5% federal income tax to more like 15%.

The only people actually paying their bracket rates are high income families who earn salary and singles above a certain income level. If you fit one of those categories you could always start a small business, its extra work, but usually your spouse and kids can chip in, so even if you lose money on it at the end of the year everyone gets a paycheck and has fun. Pick something that has large fringe benefits like travel, real estate, etc.....

As an example, our family business provides cell phones and service to the partners, which means I have nine phones on my account, all of which belong to family members who have an interest in the business, work in it like me, or are carried by employees so I can manage them. I get to write off all the service as a business expense within certain limits. I also keep track of mileage on my truck and get reimbursements from the business, and deduct my own business use, its a pain, but it works out to about half the truck payment every month. What I wouldnt give for a dvd-nav screen that logs business miles at the touch of a button, but it means I can either have a really low payment on a new truck every 5 years or have a really nice truck for a regular payment. And lastly our business maintains a very nice swimming pool and outdoor recreation area, which I personally maintain as a glorified pool boy....I live in an adjacent property so my Kids spend all summer hanging out at the pool and the business pays for it all. I could go on about the benefits of owning a business but someone is already zipping up and preparing to type "cool story bro".....

Anyway the moral is as long as you avoid inventory and are smart about assets there isnt a whole lot of downside to a small family business. You cant do stupid stuff like have the business buy a ton of fancy furniture, write it all off, and then move it to your house. But there are plenty of reasonably legal ways to benefit from the business deduction. Lets put it this way, public employees regularly use public funds to take trips to 'conferences' all over the country at fancy places like Vegas, San Fran, etc...... Thats legal as long as no one complains. Your business can do similar things. Years ago our tax attorney and accountant gave us some ground rules on business trips and we went on a family vacation look into an investment Condominiums. We wrote off the cost of two Partners going, spent 15 hours touring apartments with a real estate agent, produced a report for our family partners on the likely income potential (negative) and in the end decided not to buy one. We did eventually invest in a property on the Jersey Shore, but sold the companies interest after a while to my Brother who Lives in Philly and spends a lot of time at the Jersey property.

I could go on about the benefits of owning a business but someone is already zipping up and preparing to type "cool story bro"..... The biggest downside in our business is that Im working myself to death in this recession trying to maintain hundreds of units with half my normal crew.
 
2012-09-27 12:04:16 AM  

sammythefish: RyogaM: impaler: sammythefish: impaler: sammythefish: Stop trying to compare apples to oranges, then. If we are talking about Romney's effective tax rate, defined as being solely the rate of federal income tax (not including FICA, or SS, or property taxes, etc), then the ones being dishonest are those who compare it to middle class rates that include those things (because those things weren't included in the rate calculated for Romney). Get it?

They are adding them to Romney's. He only has a FICA rate of around 1.5%. It's apples to apples.

There are no federal property or sales taxes.

Citation needed.

Sorry. My bad. I forgot one doesn't pay FICA on income from investments. His actual FICA rate is 0.167%. Not the massive 1.5% I said he paid (SS is capped, I just assumed he paid the medicare rate of 1.45%).

[growlersoftware.com image 850x728]

Explain to me like I'm an idiot.

So, Romney's inflated 13% effective tax rate, (which is actually about 10% when he files an amended return and gets all his charitable contributions back), also contains this FICA contribution, correct? So, Mitt's tax return contains both individual income tax, and the FICA tax, and is what he bases his effective rate on, correct?

No. His effective tax rate without FICA is 13.95%. With FICA it is 14.1%. (You can reference my previous comment for numbers used in calculations)


Thank You. And, just remember, his tax rate is also inflated because he chose not to claim $2M in Charitable deductions he was entitled to, and can still claim in the next three years by simply filing an amended return. This would put him, according to others, at about a 10% effective rate.
 
2012-09-27 01:47:03 AM  
500 comments of farking Derp. Jesus.

Also: Subby gets a cockpunch for posting the busted Rupert Murdoch bullshiat.
 
2012-09-27 02:16:38 AM  

SVenus: Grungehamster: Also, while we're deciding to ignore certain taxes in order to fit a narrative, anyone want to discuss how much Romney pays on money he makes overseas?



I'm all for creating a law that dictates that to be a presidential candidate, less than 1% of that potential candidate's wealth be held in banks and property outside the United States.

I mean, isn't that in the spirit of the law that holds that one can't be president if you're born in a foreign country?


This. The WHOLE POINT of the 'natural born citizen' requirement is so the President is less likely to be a pawn for foreign interests.
 
2012-09-27 02:33:39 AM  
I was told there would be no math.
 
2012-09-27 02:36:06 AM  

LordJiro: This. The WHOLE POINT of the 'natural born citizen' requirement is so the President is less likely to be a pawn for foreign interests.


Yeah but don't you want this thread to turn into a "discussion" about how we should change the Constitution and strike the NBC requirement? Hurr durr?
Durr!
 
2012-09-27 05:33:34 AM  

Rev.K: FTA:

While Romney may or may not pay less than the average middle-class earner -- depending on how one defines middle class and how one defines tax rate -- one thing is clear: Romney does pay at a lower rate than the typical wealthy person.

SCIENCE!!


How do YOU define effective tax rate? curious.
 
2012-09-27 05:35:45 AM  

Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.

People in the $50K-$75K range generally consider FICA to be part of their income tax. Technically it isn't but it's still a tax and you're still paying it to the federal government. Fox was trying to pull a fast one by leaving out FICA which is something like 7.5% (too lazy to look it up).


yeah, they are pulling a "fast one" by not including things that you admit shouldnt be included?

If you guys have to try THIS hard to make fox look bad, it takes away credence from your complaints when they actually ARE that bad.
 
2012-09-27 05:38:09 AM  

The Jami Turman Fan Club: relcec: Kibbler: Nice try, Fox.

"IRS data from 2010 shows someone making between $50,000 and $75,000 on average pays an effective rate of 7.8 percent."

The percentage of people making $50,000 to $75,000 per year who know that's bullshiat is *checking clipboard* 100%.

you may be an idiot if you think that's bullshiat.

It is bullshiat. HOUSEHOLDS making 50K to 75K per year only pay 7.8%, but that's the total income for the entire family. People making 50K to 75K tend pay a lot more, either because they're single, or there's two of them in a family, boosting the household income to $100K ro $150K.


what I just said. Again. over and over in this thread. If you have to change what they are saying to make it a lie, its not a lie.
 
2012-09-27 07:51:57 AM  
Link

But, sure, keep telling yourself that poor old Mittens actual effective tax rate is close to 50% due to double taxation from corporate taxes. It's what will resonate the best with the working class man.

There is math involved, so you might want to get some coffee first if you want to try and discount the study. Or you can accept it as fact, and realize that up to 75% of corporate taxes burden falls to labor, not capital. And therefore, considering that the corporate tax rate is actually an effective tax rate of ~25% for most companies, and you will start to realize your arguments concerning poor Romney and his over taxed millions is....mostly crap.
 
2012-09-27 08:02:42 AM  

NateGrey: Tumunga: Yep, he paid more than me.

/I'M BACK, YOU WHINEY BIATCHES!!1!

You left? Welcome back...I guess.


Yeah, some liberal mess on here got there wittle feewings huwrt, and I got put in the corner for, get this, "name calling". Here, in the politics thread of all places, "name calling". whodathunk?
 
2012-09-27 08:20:26 AM  

Tumunga: NateGrey: Tumunga: Yep, he paid more than me.

/I'M BACK, YOU WHINEY BIATCHES!!1!

You left? Welcome back...I guess.

Yeah, some liberal mess on here got there wittle feewings huwrt, and I got put in the corner for, get this, "name calling". Here, in the politics thread of all places, "name calling". whodathunk?


Well here is hoping you slip up again and you get another well deserved corner time. =)
 
2012-09-27 10:45:31 AM  

relcec: purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: relcec: Monkeyhouse Zendo: relcec: how can you not know what fica is? and think it is income tax? have you ever worked?

People know what it is, they just tend to lump it in with their income tax. Don't be obtuse.

I'm not being obuse. you don't even have the slightest f*cking clue how much the tax is yet you are saying I'm playing dumb intentionally because I don't except that not everyone is as ignorant as you. the majority fo folks are not as ignorant as you. they know income tax is different from FICA. I knew what fica was and what the percentage was and that the company I worked for kicked in the other half when I was 17. jesus.

You're kind of a dick.

I'm an asshole,
and so is anyone that thinks who thinks the majority of the population is a bunch of dumbasses just because they happen to be ignorant about fairly commonly understood tax.
who the f*ck goes around saying *well I haven't bothered to google or ask anyone on earth a simple question about a tax I get dinged with even though I've seen massive amounts of my income removed from my pocket for about a decade, so I'm gonna just gonna assume everyone must be ignorant like me. furthermore the article is being deceptive in not assuming that everyone is similarly like me.*
I'll tell you who; an asshole.


You mad bro?
 
2012-09-27 12:47:19 PM  
Is it a tax that exists for me because I have an income?
Then it's an income tax.

Otherwise I wouldn't pay it now would I?
 
2012-09-27 01:09:17 PM  

xtragrind: mrshowrules: Conservatives get to pick which wars are started. Liberals get to decide tax rates. Fair?

Did you forget all the libs that voted for that war in Congress? Ah liberal forgetfulness....


This is the lie that bothers me the most. No one voted for an unconditional authorization of force. The use of force was authrorized as a threat to get inspectors on the ground to verify whether or not there were weapons of mass destruction or to remove said weapons. George Bush went ahead and waged war even after it was appearant that there were no WMD's.

Do not lie and act like liberal voted for the war that was waged, it is all on Bush and the neocons.
 
2012-09-27 03:00:43 PM  

purple kool-aid and a jigger of formaldehyde: You're kind of a dick.


"kind of"?

You're new here, aren't you?

It's kind of his thing, man.
 
2012-09-27 03:32:35 PM  
Dear FOX, Mitt Romney still isn't going to sleep with you.
 
2012-09-28 08:48:44 PM  

NateGrey: Tumunga: NateGrey: Tumunga: Yep, he paid more than me.

/I'M BACK, YOU WHINEY BIATCHES!!1!

You left? Welcome back...I guess.

Yeah, some liberal mess on here got there wittle feewings huwrt, and I got put in the corner for, get this, "name calling". Here, in the politics thread of all places, "name calling". whodathunk?

Well here is hoping you slip up again and you get another well deserved corner time. =)


You've hurt my heart. I'll go back to the corner, but I'm crying this time.
 
2012-09-28 11:51:33 PM  
I'm in the 53% but just barely. I'd be willing to trade my income tax rate and salary with nearly anyone else in the 53%.

Strange that there are no takers.....

The whole farking argument out of the GOP'ers is entirely disingenuous.
 
2012-09-29 11:06:17 AM  

Tumunga: You've hurt my heart. I'll go back to the corner, but I'm crying this time.


Trolls gonna troll.
 
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