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(AZCentral)   The pot-smoking, Marx-reading, long-haired President of Guatemala makes the 'grooviest' speech ever in the history of the UN and demands the legalization of all drugs. Dave's not here, man. Dave's not here   (azcentral.com) divider line 65
    More: Unlikely, President of Guatemala, Guatemalan, Organization of American States, head of state, Central American, United Nations General Assembly, peace treaties, Mexican Drug Cartel  
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7996 clicks; posted to Main » on 26 Sep 2012 at 3:19 AM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-26 01:42:58 AM  
Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.
 
2012-09-26 03:11:02 AM  
seconded
 
2012-09-26 03:22:15 AM  
Only makes sense since, in fact, the two legal recreational drugs, alcohol and tobacco/nicotine, are legal and regulated and still kill half a million Americans every year in the U.S. alone.

/use safer, all natural drugs and run the risk of Uncle Sam ruining your entire life
//because he cares
 
2012-09-26 03:22:21 AM  
Otto.
 
2012-09-26 03:27:38 AM  
He sounds like a real po-thead.
 
2012-09-26 03:32:08 AM  
I, for one, welcome our new drug overlords.
 
2012-09-26 03:38:07 AM  
Governments get paid to make laws....not to erase them. Don't believe me? Look at how far back some of the laws currently on the books go. Nothing a legislator hates more than repealing laws. In fact, it happens so rarely that we even have a name for the ONE time it happened in our history. Don't ever look to government to expunge laws. They just keep adding more and more each year.
 
2012-09-26 03:40:33 AM  

Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.


he's just supporting small businesses. Why do you hate Latin America?
 
2012-09-26 03:48:45 AM  

Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.



It's not irony. He's forced to by the American government.
 
2012-09-26 03:52:12 AM  

intelligent comment below: Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.


It's not irony. He's forced to by the American government.


lib-left.org
 
2012-09-26 03:53:55 AM  
fark me Alex



Hey man, I didn't know your name was Alex
 
Esn
2012-09-26 04:12:28 AM  

Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.


Maybe not. If his goal is to legalize them and have the government control their distribution instead of those cartels, it's not contradictory at all.
 
2012-09-26 04:29:49 AM  
No, man. It's me - Dave. I got the stuff.
 
2012-09-26 04:45:47 AM  

untaken_name: Governments get paid to make laws....not to erase them. Don't believe me? Look at how far back some of the laws currently on the books go. Nothing a legislator hates more than repealing laws. In fact, it happens so rarely that we even have a name for the ONE time it happened in our history. Don't ever look to government to expunge laws. They just keep adding more and more each year.


Clearly demonstrating that you know nothing about laws. There is no "ONE" time, as both English and Spanish common law are largely in effect in the places where they were originally.
 
2012-09-26 05:32:07 AM  
gcalers.files.wordpress.com

Always remember that one day all this drug monkey business will be legal. They won't leave it to people like me... not when they finally figure out how much money is to be made - not millions, f*cking billions. Recreational drugs PLC - giving the people what they want...

/DNRTFA
 
2012-09-26 05:40:19 AM  
Oh, is there an election going on in Guatemala this year? I'm sure his constituents are happy to know he's out there spending his time on realistic problems that he actually has a chance of solving.

Well, I guess if you're going to talk to the UN about anything, they're just as impotent on this topic as any other.
 
2012-09-26 06:06:58 AM  
And what? Have a situation where the people have to think for themselves? Like THAT'S going to happen.
 
2012-09-26 06:07:27 AM  

untaken_name: Governments get paid to make laws....not to erase them. Don't believe me? Look at how far back some of the laws currently on the books go. Nothing a legislator hates more than repealing laws. In fact, it happens so rarely that we even have a name for the ONE time it happened in our history. Don't ever look to government to expunge laws. They just keep adding more and more each year.


They could just add a new law making drugs legal while doing a bong.
 
2012-09-26 06:38:49 AM  
CIA-supported dictatorial regime takes over in 3... 2... 1...
 
2012-09-26 06:59:16 AM  
Javascript must be enabled on your browser to view this site.

well then. I guess I won't be viewing your site.
 
2012-09-26 07:03:47 AM  

moof: CIA-supported dictatorial regime takes over in 3... 2... 1...


No need. Pérez Molina is a graduate of the School of the Americas who was a high ranking officer in Efrain Rios Montt's army during the most violent stage of the Guatemalan Civil War in the early '80s. He may read Marx for all I know, but he isn't a leftist.

Pérez Molina makes one good point, IMHO; we here in the US need to face the fact that demand here for cocaine and heroin is a major factor in fueling the violence that is now spreading throughout much of Central America.
 
2012-09-26 07:15:45 AM  

untaken_name: Governments get paid to make laws....not to erase them. Don't believe me? Look at how far back some of the laws currently on the books go. Nothing a legislator hates more than repealing laws. In fact, it happens so rarely that we even have a name for the ONE time it happened in our history. Don't ever look to government to expunge laws. They just keep adding more and more each year.


Part of the reason I think every law should come with a sunset clause.
Not only to give them more busywork, but to clear the books of outdated and outright bad legislation.

/Regularly bump into old weapons laws when feeding my addiction.
/We still got laws against brass knuckles and automatic knives, written to reduce gang violence.
/Yea, how did that work out? Total fail? Never revisited it? What a surprise...
 
2012-09-26 07:32:58 AM  

urban.derelict: Only makes sense since, in fact, the two legal recreational drugs, alcohol and tobacco/nicotine, are legal and regulated and still kill half a million Americans every year in the U.S. alone.

/use safer, all natural drugs and run the risk of Uncle Sam ruining your entire life
//because he cares


Bah, caffeine beats both yours hands down. Not a great example for you though.
 
2012-09-26 07:45:45 AM  
So we need to take the power away from the cartels and hand it over to governments who will regulate price and supply with the support of armed military forces who will imprison or kill people who stand up against their monopoly... seems like a lateral move to me.
 
2012-09-26 07:57:32 AM  

serial_crusher: Oh, is there an election going on in Guatemala this year? I'm sure his constituents are happy to know he's out there spending his time on realistic problems that he actually has a chance of solving.

Well, I guess if you're going to talk to the UN about anything, they're just as impotent on this topic as any other.


He's appealing to the other governments because it is literally tearing his country apart.

There likely is no more important issue in central america right now.

You frakking Americans are arguing over whether Obama or Romney get to piss into the wind and do nothing helpful for the next few years while your actions ruin and end the lives of his people.

Hell, I don't think there's a more important issue on the planet right now, but just watch our politicians in the west carry on sticking their fingers in their ears and shout lalalalala I can't hear you....
 
2012-09-26 08:24:09 AM  

Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.


Madonna? Er... did you mean Alanis Morissette?
 
2012-09-26 08:24:18 AM  

Gothnet: serial_crusher: Oh, is there an election going on in Guatemala this year? I'm sure his constituents are happy to know he's out there spending his time on realistic problems that he actually has a chance of solving.

Well, I guess if you're going to talk to the UN about anything, they're just as impotent on this topic as any other.

He's appealing to the other governments because it is literally tearing his country apart.

There likely is no more important issue in central america right now.

You frakking Americans are arguing over whether Obama or Romney get to piss into the wind and do nothing helpful for the next few years while your actions ruin and end the lives of his people.

Hell, I don't think there's a more important issue on the planet right now, but just watch our politicians in the west carry on sticking their fingers in their ears and shout lalalalala I can't hear you....


Point taken. This guy's motives carry a little more weight than the dirty hippies who usually argue for it here in the US.
But, my bit about it being an unrealistic goal still stands. It would be like the US going to the UN and asking all the Muslim countries to stop acting crazy.
(or, the Muslim countries asking the US to stop acting crazy. I guess both are valid concerns, and equally unlikely to actually happen)
 
2012-09-26 08:24:35 AM  
It has always been an unwinnable fiasco.

Entire sections of various countries are under control of several cartels, submarines have been built to ferry drugs to the US,
cartels in south Texas have their own cell phone networks, tens of thousands have been killed and demand just stays the same.

I can't, for the life of me, understand why the American people don't just stand up and say, "Enough".

Do what Spain did. Do what Portugal did. Do what Italy did. It is way past time.
 
2012-09-26 08:25:51 AM  

Jurodan: Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.

Madonna? Er... did you mean Alanis Morissette?


I think he meant Eva Peron
 
2012-09-26 08:28:11 AM  

Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.


actually legalizing them would take the money out of the cartels' hands. their business would be gone.
 
2012-09-26 08:39:13 AM  
strayhorn.net
 
2012-09-26 09:12:19 AM  
Esn: "If his goal is to legalize them and have the government control their distribution instead of those cartels, it's not contradictory at all."

Which, if we RTFA, is *exactly* his goal.
Which is something that the "legalize it and it will all be rainbows and unicorns" crowd doesn't usually seem to grok.
Legalizing still requires you solve the cartel problem. Granted, market forces will be on your side and provide a much more plausible 'success' condition.
But the drug war isn't going away overnight, or even any time soon after hypothetical legalization. If anything, there will be even *more* (lobbyist) pressure to crack down on the illegal trade when businesses are competing against illegal suppliers.
 
2012-09-26 09:16:37 AM  
So, say we do legalize all drugs, I see things getting a lot worse before they get better. All those dudes out of work, looking for new ways to apply themselves. I'm not going to say they'll give rise to some other illegal industry like human trafficking, because they'd have a hard time getting demand up for that sort of thing.
But, what I worry about is that drug cartels have a skill set that Al Queda etc find valuable, and they have easier access to the US. So, all of a sudden there's this big competitive job market for unscrupulous mercenaries, Al Queda is going to get an excellent deal hiring a significant chunk of those guys to come over here and just fark shiat up. Obviously they won't be suicide bombing anything, but there's plenty of damage they could do.
Obviously people won't have an incentive to enter that career field, but we'll have to wait until the current crop are all dead before the chaos actually stops.

I guess one ideal plan would be to legalize drugs in phases. Like maybe if you legalize marijuana, half of those guys will move into the cocaine business and half will get real jobs. Then legalize cocaine, etc.
 
2012-09-26 09:56:15 AM  

serial_crusher: So, say we do legalize all drugs, I see things getting a lot worse before they get better. All those dudes out of work, looking for new ways to apply themselves. I'm not going to say they'll give rise to some other illegal industry like human trafficking, because they'd have a hard time getting demand up for that sort of thing.
But, what I worry about is that drug cartels have a skill set that Al Queda etc find valuable, and they have easier access to the US. So, all of a sudden there's this big competitive job market for unscrupulous mercenaries, Al Queda is going to get an excellent deal hiring a significant chunk of those guys to come over here and just fark shiat up. Obviously they won't be suicide bombing anything, but there's plenty of damage they could do.
Obviously people won't have an incentive to enter that career field, but we'll have to wait until the current crop are all dead before the chaos actually stops.

I guess one ideal plan would be to legalize drugs in phases. Like maybe if you legalize marijuana, half of those guys will move into the cocaine business and half will get real jobs. Then legalize cocaine, etc.


The a-pot-calypse?

Not buying it. The drug cartels will be out of the drug business in a hurry. There's no way they can compete with Phillip Morris in a competitive marketplace. The main cash crop for the cartels is Marijuana. There is a ridiculous amount of marijuana use in the US compared with other drugs, mostly because harder addictive drugs have the unintended consequence of eventually killing the user. Or they get locked up for other crimes to fund their habit.

Without marijuana funding the bottom line for the cartels gets ugly in a hurry.
 
2012-09-26 09:59:51 AM  
FTFA: "... it is clear that interdiction has demonstrable and measurable effects." -William Ostick

But not in a good way. -Alanis Morissette
 
2012-09-26 10:02:21 AM  
Legalize it and international corporations will commoditize it. Prices will drop and crime will drop as well.

Legalize it
Control it
Tax it

Scarcity and cost cause crime. Nobody holds somebody at gunpoint for a case of whiskey but they might for an 8 ball of coke.
 
2012-09-26 10:02:48 AM  

Jurodan: Apos: Guatemalan President Otto Perez Molina is advocating the international legalization of drugs even as he is moving to fight narcotics cartels with the biggest buildup in the Central American country since its long and bloody civil war

Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.

Madonna? Er... did you mean Alanis Morissette?


How ironic.
 
2012-09-26 10:03:00 AM  

serial_crusher: So, say we do legalize all drugs, I see things getting a lot worse before they get better. All those dudes out of work, looking for new ways to apply themselves. I'm not going to say they'll give rise to some other illegal industry like human trafficking, because they'd have a hard time getting demand up for that sort of thing.
But, what I worry about is that drug cartels have a skill set that Al Queda etc find valuable, and they have easier access to the US. So, all of a sudden there's this big competitive job market for unscrupulous mercenaries, Al Queda is going to get an excellent deal hiring a significant chunk of those guys to come over here and just fark shiat up. Obviously they won't be suicide bombing anything, but there's plenty of damage they could do.
Obviously people won't have an incentive to enter that career field, but we'll have to wait until the current crop are all dead before the chaos actually stops.

I guess one ideal plan would be to legalize drugs in phases. Like maybe if you legalize marijuana, half of those guys will move into the cocaine business and half will get real jobs. Then legalize cocaine, etc.


I don't really agree with blanket legalisation and easy access. I do agree with an evidence based approach of harm minimisation, which starts with liberalising laws around cannabis, ecstasy, LSD and various other substances scientifically determined to be far less of a public risk than or current legal drugs (alcohol and tobacco). Accompanying this *must* be real, evidence based education, instead of the usual lies and propaganda, on the risks of these things, put into proper proportion against alcohol and tobacco. I'm not really sure what the best approach is for cocaine - it's genuinely harmful and addictive, but it's also one of the main cash-crops fuelling the cartels and the violence. Some middle path needs to be found.

The cartels themselves? I'd bet that acquisitive crime and violence go up for a while, followed by a long, slow decline. They'll never find anything so easy as the drug trade again, where millions of people are begging to give them their money.
 
2012-09-26 10:04:25 AM  

serial_crusher: But, my bit about it being an unrealistic goal still stands.


I can't disagree with that. I do think the more this is talked about in the public/political arenas the better, because nothing's going to change if people don't talk about it either.
 
2012-09-26 10:06:17 AM  
Hey,Madonna! THIS is what irony looks like.

He's trying to cut funding for criminals with military grade weaponry.
/not ironic.
 
2012-09-26 10:06:37 AM  

ringersol: Esn: "If his goal is to legalize them and have the government control their distribution instead of those cartels, it's not contradictory at all."

Which, if we RTFA, is *exactly* his goal.
Which is something that the "legalize it and it will all be rainbows and unicorns" crowd doesn't usually seem to grok.
Legalizing still requires you solve the cartel problem. Granted, market forces will be on your side and provide a much more plausible 'success' condition.
But the drug war isn't going away overnight, or even any time soon after hypothetical legalization. If anything, there will be even *more* (lobbyist) pressure to crack down on the illegal trade when businesses are competing against illegal suppliers.


How long did it take for the mafia to stop selling alcohol once prohibition ended? A week?
 
2012-09-26 10:09:09 AM  

Gothnet: I'm not really sure what the best approach is for cocaine - it's genuinely harmful and addictive, but it's also one of the main cash-crops fuelling the cartels and the violence. Some middle path needs to be found.


Sorry to multi-post but....

I did read recently that when mephedrone was legal in the UK that cocaine usage (and cocaine reltd health issues) dropped significantly, so it may be possible to find alternatives that don't have so many down sides. That is if we step down off our (hypocritical) moral high-horse and allow research into new recreational drugs.

Currently we inhabit the worst of all worlds as far as I can tell - Cartels and militias rule a massive underground economy, users are criminalised, don't really know what they're getting and are probably using non-optimal substances.

Medical science found novocaine, a derivative that anaesthetises without the high, who's to say we couldn't make things that give you the buzz but without the heart strain, or the addiction?
 
2012-09-26 10:52:41 AM  
why NOT legalize crack? will cut down on prostitution
 
2012-09-26 11:04:25 AM  

r0Be: serial_crusher: So, say we do legalize all drugs, I see things getting a lot worse before they get better. All those dudes out of work, looking for new ways to apply themselves. I'm not going to say they'll give rise to some other illegal industry like human trafficking, because they'd have a hard time getting demand up for that sort of thing.
But, what I worry about is that drug cartels have a skill set that Al Queda etc find valuable, and they have easier access to the US. So, all of a sudden there's this big competitive job market for unscrupulous mercenaries, Al Queda is going to get an excellent deal hiring a significant chunk of those guys to come over here and just fark shiat up. Obviously they won't be suicide bombing anything, but there's plenty of damage they could do.
Obviously people won't have an incentive to enter that career field, but we'll have to wait until the current crop are all dead before the chaos actually stops.

I guess one ideal plan would be to legalize drugs in phases. Like maybe if you legalize marijuana, half of those guys will move into the cocaine business and half will get real jobs. Then legalize cocaine, etc.

The a-pot-calypse?

Not buying it. The drug cartels will be out of the drug business in a hurry. There's no way they can compete with Phillip Morris in a competitive marketplace. The main cash crop for the cartels is Marijuana. There is a ridiculous amount of marijuana use in the US compared with other drugs, mostly because harder addictive drugs have the unintended consequence of eventually killing the user. Or they get locked up for other crimes to fund their habit.

Without marijuana funding the bottom line for the cartels gets ugly in a hurry.


Yeah, I was thinking that. Maybe the phase-out approach would work better if we did it counter-intuitively and legalized the hard stuff first. "Whoa, whoa, put down that joint son. That shiat's illegal. Why don't you just come over here and have some of this delicious heroin, or maybe some snow crash?"
 
2012-09-26 11:10:56 AM  

serial_crusher: Yeah, I was thinking that. Maybe the phase-out approach would work better if we did it counter-intuitively and legalized the hard stuff first. "Whoa, whoa, put down that joint son. That shiat's illegal. Why don't you just come over here and have some of this delicious heroin, or maybe some snow crash?"


pretty soon you end up with sword carrying pizza delivery guys though...
 
2012-09-26 11:13:34 AM  
"Since Guatemala's civil war ended in 1996, the U.S. has spent $85 million fighting drug traffickers in Guatemala."

And we biatch about paying for programs for the poor in the US.
 
2012-09-26 11:34:31 AM  
Shut the **** up, Donny
 
2012-09-26 11:35:25 AM  
 
2012-09-26 11:37:52 AM  
You want common sense applied? All drugs legalized. Period. Including big pharma poison. If it is true medical need, get a script. If you have a script you pay schedule A cost + 5% no tax. No script? You pay cost + 100% mark up + standard sales tax. This is not fair tax deductible. Yes FAIR TAX! Because tax scams is where all this crap starts. Also restore the constitution! Including the second amendment. If you don't want guns just like abortion and drugs, don't get any. Time served for being criminal and/or crazy = rights restored. Further offence? Removal from population. Prison, death or expulsion from the country take your pick. Use some brains people adults can make their own decisions. As for the authoritarian crowd intoxication is still not an excuse or defense.
 
2012-09-26 11:39:06 AM  

simon_bar_sinister: You want common sense applied? All drugs legalized. Period. Including big pharma poison. If it is true medical need, get a script. If you have a script you pay schedule A cost + 5% no tax. No script? You pay cost + 100% mark up + standard sales tax. This is not fair tax deductible. Yes FAIR TAX! Because tax scams is where all this crap starts. Also restore the constitution! Including the second amendment. If you don't want guns just like abortion and drugs, don't get any. Time served for being criminal and/or crazy = rights restored. Further offence? Removal from population. Prison, death or expulsion from the country take your pick. Use some brains people adults can make their own decisions. As for the authoritarian crowd intoxication is still not an excuse or defense.


We should also bring back paragraph breaks!
 
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