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(NFL)   NFL to address the MNF call on the last play this morning. Reversal? Fantasy Owners / Survivor poolers want to know   (nfl.com) divider line 539
    More: Followup, MNF, NFL, Golden Tate, touchback, Hail Mary, Green Bay, Seahawks, NFL.com's Steve Wyche  
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4200 clicks; posted to Sports » on 25 Sep 2012 at 10:34 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-25 02:07:05 PM

roc6783: FarkGrudge: Harv72b: stappawho: How does Jennings CLEARLY establish control when Tate has his hands on the ball?

First, he CLEARLY establishes control before Tate has his hands on the ball (Tate may arguably have had an arm on the ball at this point). There are several screencaps in this thread which demonstrate this, but the easy answer is that Jennings pulls the ball into his chest (and, arguably, Tate's arm with it).

Clearly? From all of the videos, frame-by-frame posts, first-hand recounts, etc I have seen, all I can say is Jennings MIGHT HAVE TOUCHED the ball first. I don't think you can say he clearly had control of it first, since he appears to have pinned the ball against one of Tate's hand (who knows, maybe it would've slipped out without Tate holding onto it, too). So, unless touching means control now, you're just fooling yourself by saying control/possession here is CLEAR and OBVIOUS, hence tie goes to the offense.

/guess we'll be agreeing to disagree here, since I think, while Jennings appeared to have "more control" I don't think you can truly say Tate didn't have control at the same time.


At 2:34 on the video in the link, you can clearly see Tate reach a hand into Jennings' chest as he pulls the ball in. Jennings is the first to establish control, then Tate does as they are falling/landing.

After seeing it way too many times, it would have been a very difficult call on the field. Good thing that both the completion and possession were reviewable and a review took place. Too bad they still got it wrong.


At 2:34 on the video, everyone was still in the air. So no one had possession, and no one could be said to have "control" because no feet were down. Call cannot be made at this point, and it does not matter who touched the ball first.
 
2012-09-25 02:07:07 PM
NFL = Not Feeling Legitimate.
 
2012-09-25 02:08:25 PM

FriarReb98: The Inaccurate Reception is just the crowning achievement in the history of this lockout. There's far, far too many things we can say about just about every game this season to say that's the reason we hate the replacement refs.


This. I don't agree with the ruling and the fact that they won't overturn it. That might be the Pack fan in me.

I am not enjoying the other games I have watched this year nearly as much as in the past 5 years. Quality is at an all time low.
 
2012-09-25 02:08:40 PM

Jekylman: roc6783: FarkGrudge: Harv72b: stappawho: How does Jennings CLEARLY establish control when Tate has his hands on the ball?

First, he CLEARLY establishes control before Tate has his hands on the ball (Tate may arguably have had an arm on the ball at this point). There are several screencaps in this thread which demonstrate this, but the easy answer is that Jennings pulls the ball into his chest (and, arguably, Tate's arm with it).

Clearly? From all of the videos, frame-by-frame posts, first-hand recounts, etc I have seen, all I can say is Jennings MIGHT HAVE TOUCHED the ball first. I don't think you can say he clearly had control of it first, since he appears to have pinned the ball against one of Tate's hand (who knows, maybe it would've slipped out without Tate holding onto it, too). So, unless touching means control now, you're just fooling yourself by saying control/possession here is CLEAR and OBVIOUS, hence tie goes to the offense.

/guess we'll be agreeing to disagree here, since I think, while Jennings appeared to have "more control" I don't think you can truly say Tate didn't have control at the same time.


At 2:34 on the video in the link, you can clearly see Tate reach a hand into Jennings' chest as he pulls the ball in. Jennings is the first to establish control, then Tate does as they are falling/landing.

After seeing it way too many times, it would have been a very difficult call on the field. Good thing that both the completion and possession were reviewable and a review took place. Too bad they still got it wrong.

At 2:34 on the video, everyone was still in the air. So no one had possession, and no one could be said to have "control" because no feet were down. Call cannot be made at this point, and it does not matter who touched the ball first.


Control != possession. Foot location does not matter.
 
2012-09-25 02:13:31 PM

roflmaonow: FriarReb98:
At this point, at this rate, my personal perfect storm scenario is that this somehow goes to week 8. We end up with some ridiculous failure of the refs that costs the Patriots the game in a fashion similar to the Packers game or a career-ending injury to someone on the field. Belichick gets in a fight with the refs, it starts fights in the stands, and we end up with a all-out soccer riot in the game, covered by the world media as a shining example of how little Goodell cares about anything but money. Goodell gets fired, lockout ends.

I know it probably won't even come to that week at this rate, but that would be beautiful to happen.

Hah i would be highly amused if that happened.


And I left out the best part about that scenario: The game I'm referring to would be in the LONDON game, which means not only do we get all that out of it, we get (a) the NFL out of London permanently, and (b) an international incident, which means Obama gets involved a week before the election.

We could legitimately say Golden Tate and a replacement line judge got Obama elected to his second term. People's heads would explode.

\not a Democrat, but hate my ex-governor for basically spending his term campaigning for President
 
2012-09-25 02:13:54 PM

halfof33: NightOwl2255: Well, keep watching. Before long you'll believe that Tate caught it, and Jennings was the one with "an arm in there". And after a few more views, what the hell do you know, Jennings never even touched the ball.

Puzzleddog.jpg.

Looks at score.

Still Puzzled.


Jennings? Who's Jennings. There was no Jennings on the field.

Here's a pic of Tate in the endzone after making the catch:
www1.pictures.zimbio.com
 
2012-09-25 02:18:10 PM
I also wonder why they have play that can't be reviewed. What's the point of IR then? 2 plays ended 2 games in 2 nights, both controversial (maybe Sunday not so much but still). And neither of these plays were allowed to be reviewed to ensure they were correctly called. What's the point of IR then?
 
2012-09-25 02:20:44 PM

Harv72b: stappawho: How does Jennings CLEARLY establish control when Tate has his hands on the ball?

First, he CLEARLY establishes control before Tate has his hands on the ball (Tate may arguably have had an arm on the ball at this point). There are several screencaps in this thread which demonstrate this, but the easy answer is that Jennings pulls the ball into his chest (and, arguably, Tate's arm with it).



Exactly.  Otherwise pretty much EVERY interception in the NFL would be nullified because the intended receiver is most likely going to be able to at least touch the ball with two hands after the defender has caught it.
 
Two opposing players having control at the same time is very, very rare.  You both basically have to catch and control it at the exact same time.
 
2012-09-25 02:21:27 PM
Zimmerman clearly was the aggressor and Trayvon Martin was wrongfully denied the interception.
 
2012-09-25 02:22:27 PM

Jekylman: roc6783: FarkGrudge: Harv72b: stappawho: ***snip***

At 2:34 on the video, everyone was still in the air. So no one had possession, and no one could be said to have "control" because no feet were down. Call cannot be made at this point, and it does not matter who touched the ball first.



25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-25 02:23:40 PM
Well to summarize, hats off to Golden Tate for making one of the greatest catches in NFL history.

And hats off to the refs for letting them play, and not calling the obvious Pass Interference on the Packers when they mugged Charley Martin.

And I'm sure that Clay Matthews is thanking the refs for not calling his obvious late hit on the QB, #whew!
 
2012-09-25 02:25:44 PM

NightOwl2255: halfof33: NightOwl2255: Well, keep watching. Before long you'll believe that Tate caught it, and Jennings was the one with "an arm in there". And after a few more views, what the hell do you know, Jennings never even touched the ball.

Puzzleddog.jpg.

Looks at score.

Still Puzzled.

Jennings? Who's Jennings. There was no Jennings on the field.

Here's a pic of Tate in the endzone after making the catch:
[www1.pictures.zimbio.com image 426x594]


At least use a pic of him in *this* year's uniform. Or if you're gonna go down that route, put a pic of him in his ND uniform.

Before this, I really thought I didn't care for him because he was a receiver in the Clausen era, and everyone who's ever seen me on the sports tab should know how much I hate Clausen. Now I see that not only is he a self-centered douche, he didn't even have the common sense to smirk and say "I ain't tellin'!" No. He had to sit there and seriously act like he wasn't caught by a dozen cameras pushing off, in a penalty that the league admitted to today.

I'm not mad at all about the statement, to be honest. They couldn't overturn it, otherwise there'd be up to 16 challenges on a weekly basis by every team that lost saying "x" shouldn't have been called. What we're seeing today is the rest of the casual world realizing how bad these refs are, and how bad it's pissing all sides off.
 
2012-09-25 02:27:16 PM

Dogpants: For the record, I'm a Packer fan now after having been a Vikings fan when I was a child, and yes, there are dumbasses in every team's group of fans... but nobody comes within a Spergon Wynn pass of the team from Minnesota.


How high did you have to jump to get on the Packer bandwagon?
 
2012-09-25 02:31:57 PM

NightOwl2255: halfof33: NightOwl2255: ***snip***
[www1.pictures.zimbio.com image 426x594]


Tate is Jennings
Einhorn is Finkle
Keaton was Keyser Söze
 
2012-09-25 02:32:23 PM

netweavr: RadioAaron: machoprogrammer: Except when they landed, Tate didn't have both hands on the ball. He had one arm around MD Jennings chest/neck, not even touching the ball.

That's just plain false.


This shot is conclusive proof. I've said it countless times since last night. Why anyone is still arguing with the ignorants farks is beyond me.
 
2012-09-25 02:33:16 PM

bartink: netweavr: i.imgur.com

That frame is meaningless unless we know when its taken.


How about watching the video? Or the freeze frame gif I posted last night?
 
2012-09-25 02:34:25 PM
If the Packers make it to the playoffs and the Hawks don't, will this be for nothing?
 
2012-09-25 02:34:49 PM

roc6783: Keaton was Keyser Söze


Keaton was batman. You said you were batman. You are Keaton.

I liked you in Toy Story 3.
 
2012-09-25 02:36:05 PM

halfof33: /whoever drew those red coircles over tate's RIGHT arm needs a beating.


That's not his arm. It's his hand.
 
2012-09-25 02:39:01 PM

thecpt: roc6783: Keaton was Keyser Söze

Keaton was batman. You said you were batman. You are Keaton.

I liked you in Toy Story 3.


So close, I am actually Jack Nicholson, played by Christopher Walken. WOOOWW!!!
 
2012-09-25 02:45:38 PM

CCCarnie: To me it definitely looks like Tate grabs the ball in the first picture


Then you're a blind idiot.


growlersoftware.com
growlersoftware.com

His hand is below the ball, grabbing Jenning's elbow:
growlersoftware.com
 
2012-09-25 02:46:36 PM

fonebone77:

How high did you have to jump to get on the Packer bandwagon?


Guess I don't remember, as I became a Packer fan in the 1980s. Quite a lot of us jumping on the bandwagon in those days when they were going 3-13 with Randy Wright behind center. I quit rooting for the Vikings in 1975 when one of their "fans" hit a game official in the head with a whiskey bottle after a call didn't go their way.

Perhaps you'd like to try another winning strategy? Maybe call me a cheesehead or something?
 
2012-09-25 02:47:50 PM

danzak: I also wonder why they have play that can't be reviewed. What's the point of IR then? 2 plays ended 2 games in 2 nights, both controversial (maybe Sunday not so much but still). And neither of these plays were allowed to be reviewed to ensure they were correctly called. What's the point of IR then?


According to the statement, simultaneous possession CAN be reviewed in the endzone. But for some reason they "still support the decision not to overturn the on-field ruling following the instant replay review."

/ puzzleddog.jpg
 
2012-09-25 02:47:56 PM

SomebodyElsesShoes: Jekylman: roc6783: FarkGrudge: Harv72b: stappawho: How does Jennings CLEARLY establish control when Tate has his hands on the ball?

First, he CLEARLY establishes control before Tate has his hands on the ball (Tate may arguably have had an arm on the ball at this point). There are several screencaps in this thread which demonstrate this, but the easy answer is that Jennings pulls the ball into his chest (and, arguably, Tate's arm with it).

Clearly? From all of the videos, frame-by-frame posts, first-hand recounts, etc I have seen, all I can say is Jennings MIGHT HAVE TOUCHED the ball first. I don't think you can say he clearly had control of it first, since he appears to have pinned the ball against one of Tate's hand (who knows, maybe it would've slipped out without Tate holding onto it, too). So, unless touching means control now, you're just fooling yourself by saying control/possession here is CLEAR and OBVIOUS, hence tie goes to the offense.

/guess we'll be agreeing to disagree here, since I think, while Jennings appeared to have "more control" I don't think you can truly say Tate didn't have control at the same time.


At 2:34 on the video in the link, you can clearly see Tate reach a hand into Jennings' chest as he pulls the ball in. Jennings is the first to establish control, then Tate does as they are falling/landing.

After seeing it way too many times, it would have been a very difficult call on the field. Good thing that both the completion and possession were reviewable and a review took place. Too bad they still got it wrong.

At 2:34 on the video, everyone was still in the air. So no one had possession, and no one could be said to have "control" because no feet were down. Call cannot be made at this point, and it does not matter who touched the ball first.

Control != possession. Foot location does not matter.


It's a distinction without a difference. To be awarded the type of "control" you are clinging to, you have to maintain it throughout the catch. Because everyone was still in the air, and because more than one person had a hand on it, you can't verify that type of control throughout the catch in order to establish possession. It's frustrating that "control" is not defined in the rulebook. But the phrase "maintain complete and continuous control" has a pretty clear meaning.
 
2012-09-25 02:49:06 PM

The Muthaship: It's these guys 3rd week (really 3rd day) on the job.

You were still mistakenly trying to get the fries out of the deep fryer bare handed after a month.....


This one of the dumbest comments ever posted on Fark.

These aren't fry cooks. There are only 16 games in a regular season. They get paid a helluva lot more then said fry makers.

Really, you should be ashamed.
 
2012-09-25 02:50:50 PM

halfof33: Well to summarize, hats off to Golden Tate for making one of the greatest catches in NFL history.


After committing PI. Even the NFL says he did.

I'm satisfied with their response, which was "Well, the Packers SHOULD have won the game but human error occurred, and we're not going to overturn human error days later"
 
2012-09-25 02:51:29 PM
Over/Under week 5 for regular refs to return.
 
2012-09-25 02:54:43 PM

IanMoone: halfof33: Well to summarize, hats off to Golden Tate for making one of the greatest catches in NFL history.


After committing PI. Even the NFL says he did.

I'm satisfied with their response, which was "Well, the Packers SHOULD have won the game but human error occurred, and we're not going to overturn human error days later"


But they never said that. The NFL acknowledged that there should have been OPI called, but wasn't, and the call on the field was touchdown, and stands. That's it. They didn't admit the result should have been an INT, or should have been a catch, just that they are standing by the ref's call, and to move along.
 
2012-09-25 02:57:29 PM

MugzyBrown: Anybody arguing the call itself is an idiot or a troll and should probably be ignored in this conversation.


This
 
2012-09-25 03:01:27 PM
Goodell is ruining the NFL, what a coont.
 
2012-09-25 03:01:29 PM

fonebone77: Dogpants: Jim from Saint Paul: shiatTY REFFING HAPPENS WITH THE REGULAR REFS TOO.

So to quote everyone who ever told me that I should get over the refs being incompetent in that game: "Hey, it's your fault you were in a position to let the refs decide who would win the game".

And to quote myself: "Suck it Packer fans. HAHA."

This, ladies and gentlemen, is why, despite living in Minnesota for well over a decade, I will never, ever be a Vikings fan. Couldn't stand the idea of being associated with assholishness like this.

The Packers fans earned some of this with their fervent wishes that the Vikings starting quarterback would have a career ending injury a few years back. I used to be pretty ambiguous towards Packers fans, but that, plus their completely ridiculous reaction to the Randy Moss fake mooning incident, have put me in a mood to laugh at any misfortunes the Pack might suffer. Packers fans love to pull the "we fake own our team so we are special" BS too. That crap gets OLD.


I don't recall wishing for ANYbody to have a career-ending injury. See, I'm old enough to have kids and their friends who played high school ball, and due to that whenever I see any player (even one wearing an ugly purple uniform) injured I always remember that they're somebody's kid. I wouldn't wish an injury on anybody. "Fervent wishes" my ass. And when you're using that punk Randy Moss to bolster your argument, you've already lost. Call me back when a Packer runs down a cop because he didn't want to be inconvenienced.
 
2012-09-25 03:01:54 PM

FinFangFark: IanMoone: halfof33: Well to summarize, hats off to Golden Tate for making one of the greatest catches in NFL history.


After committing PI. Even the NFL says he did.

I'm satisfied with their response, which was "Well, the Packers SHOULD have won the game but human error occurred, and we're not going to overturn human error days later"

But they never said that. The NFL acknowledged that there should have been OPI called, but wasn't, and the call on the field was touchdown, and stands. That's it. They didn't admit the result should have been an INT, or should have been a catch, just that they are standing by the ref's call, and to move along.


>While the ball is in the air, Tate can be seen shoving Green Bay cornerback Sam Shields to the ground. This should have been a penalty for offensive pass interference, which would have >ended the game. It was not called and is not reviewable in instant replay.

The NFL says right there the game SHOULD have ended BUT it wasn't called. Again, I am satisfied with their statement.
 
2012-09-25 03:04:36 PM
Pretty much what I expected out of this thread, although I'm not sure why some people can think it was a simultaneous catch.

It was a bad call. Tate didn't start having his "share" of possession until they were almost on the ground, really. It was a close call but should have gone the Packers way (not to mention the shove that Mr. Maple Bars got away with).

Of course, had the situations been reversed and the Seahawks would have been on the short end of the stick, I don't imagine the uproar would be anything close to as loud.
 
2012-09-25 03:06:14 PM

Jekylman: SomebodyElsesShoes: Jekylman: roc6783: FarkGrudge: Harv72b: stappawho: ****snip****

Control != possession. Foot location does not matter.

It's a distinction without a difference. To be awarded the type of "control" you are clinging to, you have to maintain it throughout the catch. Because everyone was still in the air, and because more than one person had a hand on it, you can't verify that type of control throughout the catch in order to establish possession. It's frustrating that "control" is not defined in the rulebook. But the phrase "maintain complete and continuous control" has a pretty clear meaning.



25.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-25 03:06:19 PM

stappawho: jfivealive: stappawho: jfivealive: The entire controversy wouldn't even be occuring if the refs had called the blatant offensive pass interference by tate when he pushed number 37 in the back, that's what everyone should be talking about as the blown call.

When was the last time you saw a PI call on a Hail Mary? I bet you could go back and review the entire play and see some Seahawks receivers getting mugged.

Again, everyone is focusing on ONE *probably* bad call. There were lots of very bad calls in that game.

Yeah I know, but that's still pretty god dam blatant offensive PI, not just trying to get elbow room

Again, when has that ever been called? Guys get jacked up all the time during those plays. They could have probably called Defensive PI too giving the Seahawks another shot.



I've put plenty of people on ignore for being a-holes before, and am sure I am on plenty of ignore lists for the very same reason. This, however, is the first time I am adding names to my list due to their sheer and utter stupidity.
 
2012-09-25 03:06:22 PM
 
2012-09-25 03:07:13 PM
Tate's hand is not on the ball yet. Jennings has the ball in two hands and a helmet.

http://www.nfl.com/photos/09000d5d82b955f5/09000d5d82b97b91
 
2012-09-25 03:08:13 PM

netweavr: Link


NFL says Tate caught it, it's sadly in the books. Now begins the countdown of Goodell getting the boot.
 
2012-09-25 03:11:13 PM

netweavr: Tate's hand is not on the ball yet. Jennings has the ball in two hands and a helmet.

http://www.nfl.com/photos/09000d5d82b955f5/09000d5d82b97b91


WRONG! TATE'S HAND is on the ball! His left hand is UNDER Woods' hand, and on the ball.

Great picture!
 
2012-09-25 03:16:49 PM

Marine1: A reversal is the only way the league keeps its integrity. NFL football was, until this season, the most well-officiated game on the face of the earth.


This is the stupidest argument ever, did you people really think they would reverse the call and game?

Should they go back and correct every wrong call since the beginning of time?
 
2012-09-25 03:17:10 PM
If you go to NFL.com right now, you will see that there are actually articles ON THE LEAGUE'S OWN WEBSITE calling for an end to the lockout. They've even got an article about Larry Fitzgerald talking about how the replacement refs were manipulated in that call.

Never mind control of the field, Goodell doesn't have farking control of the entire LEAGUE anymore.
 
2012-09-25 03:19:31 PM

Dogpants: I don't recall wishing for ANYbody to have a career-ending injury. See, I'm old enough to have kids and their friends who played high school ball, and due to that whenever I see any player (even one wearing an ugly purple uniform) injured I always remember that they're somebody's kid. I wouldn't wish an injury on anybody. "Fervent wishes" my ass. And when you're using that punk Randy Moss to bolster your argument, you've already lost. Call me back when a Packer runs down a cop because he didn't want to be inconvenienced.


You weren't paying much attention to what your fellow cheeseheads were saying about Favre I guess then. Maybe it wasn't all of you, but it was a heck of a lot of you, or they were very loud. I guess excusing the pathetic behavior of Packers fans calling for Moss to be banned from the league for pretending to moon fans after green bay fans ACTUALLY mooned the entire team (do they still do that? thats VERY classy!) because Moss did something stupid off the field is one tactic to go with.
 
2012-09-25 03:21:14 PM

4NSpy: Over/Under week 5 for regular refs to return.


Way over
/bet the farm
 
2012-09-25 03:23:45 PM

FriarReb98: Never mind control of the field, Goodell doesn't have farking control of the entire LEAGUE anymore.


My honest belief is that if one respected veteran player announced his intention to sit out the games until the regular refs were brought back, the entire league would follow him. Loss of income & potential lawsuits be damned.

Watching this play out is eerily similar to that feeling you get when the two teenagers go off alone to have sex in the woods after their friends just disappeared.
 
2012-09-25 03:24:34 PM

halfof33: TATE'S HAND is on the ball! His left hand is UNDER Woods' hand, and on the ball.


Touching does not equal control. Control of the ball and who has that control first is all that matters according to the rulebook.
 
2012-09-25 03:25:52 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: Touching does not equal control. Control of the ball and who has that control first is all that matters according to the rulebook.


Good luck.
 
2012-09-25 03:27:16 PM

tbhouston: 4NSpy: Over/Under week 5 for regular refs to return.

Way over
/bet the farm


THIS.

Goodell's not backing down now. The replacements are a success because people are still watching the games, not because they can perform competently.
 
2012-09-25 03:27:22 PM

Jim from Saint Paul: halfof33: TATE'S HAND is on the ball! His left hand is UNDER Woods' hand, and on the ball.

Touching does not equal control. Control of the ball and who has that control first is all that matters according to the rulebook.


Trolling Bears fan being corrected by well-meaning Vikings fan about a call that cost the Packers a game? I have hope for the Middle East yet!!
 
2012-09-25 03:29:13 PM

fonebone77: Dogpants: I don't recall wishing for ANYbody to have a career-ending injury. See, I'm old enough to have kids and their friends who played high school ball, and due to that whenever I see any player (even one wearing an ugly purple uniform) injured I always remember that they're somebody's kid. I wouldn't wish an injury on anybody. "Fervent wishes" my ass. And when you're using that punk Randy Moss to bolster your argument, you've already lost. Call me back when a Packer runs down a cop because he didn't want to be inconvenienced.

You weren't paying much attention to what your fellow cheeseheads were saying about Favre I guess then. Maybe it wasn't all of you, but it was a heck of a lot of you, or they were very loud. I guess excusing the pathetic behavior of Packers fans calling for Moss to be banned from the league for pretending to moon fans after green bay fans ACTUALLY mooned the entire team (do they still do that? thats VERY classy!) because Moss did something stupid off the field is one tactic to go with.


Idiots are always loud. I'm sure you're well aware of that, or at least the people around you are. I remember people saying he was a dirtbag, but remember no calls for Moss to be banned for being a dirtbag. They'd have to call out half the WRs in the league if that were the case. Fined? Sure. He embarrassed himself and the league by doing what he did--absolutely classless in the Viking way. And, yeah, go with Randy Moss' version of events after he literally showed his ass on national television. I'm sure a guy with his proven character wouldn't stretch the truth in an attempt make himself look better.
 
2012-09-25 03:31:11 PM

macadamnut: The replacements are a success because people are still watching the games, not because they can perform competently.


I think I could boycott the NFL if they don't resolve this by next week.
 
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