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(The Atlantic Wire)   SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, television   (theatlanticwire.com) divider line 145
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3106 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2012 at 4:41 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-25 12:31:43 PM
cinemafanatic.files.wordpress.com
I thought we were gonna get television.
 
2012-09-25 12:34:12 PM
Unless that kid bought the television and is paying for the cable with his/her own money, I think the blame can rest on the parents.
 
2012-09-25 01:11:36 PM
From the article it sounds like more poor kids who have received a lower quality education are taking the test, so it's really not surprising the average score is down. This is a graphic from a study that came out last year.

"The chart below plots poverty concentration against percentage of students meeting the SAT college readiness criterion. Each dot represents a single high school. The size of the dot represents the number of students who tested at that school and the color of the dot represents the ethnic/racial makeup of the school.

The chart clearly shows an inverse correlation between SAT scores and poverty. As the poverty rate goes up, as defined by qualification for reduced prices lunches, SAT and ACT scores go down. In Texas, and in most other places, race and ethnicity correlate with lower incomes and lower test scores. Not surprisingly, schools made up of primarily rich students do better on these tests."


1.bp.blogspot.com
 
2012-09-25 01:53:41 PM
You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.
 
2012-09-25 01:56:13 PM

Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.


24.media.tumblr.com
 
2012-09-25 01:56:44 PM
Those squiggles are funny!
 
2012-09-25 02:16:08 PM
I'm kinda shocked we got this far without demands that the SAT be weighted with an "appropriate" amount of Biblical material.

That being said, I'm afraid to google that because I kinda don't want to know the answer.
 
2012-09-25 02:19:31 PM
woohoo, i was above average with my 530

thankfully i do math/sciency stuff
 
2012-09-25 02:23:31 PM

scottydoesntknow: Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 400x300]


maybe if she got better grades she could afford better weed and not have to smoke swag
 
2012-09-25 02:41:43 PM
Twitter is to Spelling
as Nazis are to:

a. The Reichstag
b. Jews
c. Poland
d. All of the above

© Educational Testing Service
 
2012-09-25 03:29:10 PM
Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.
 
2012-09-25 04:45:17 PM

scottydoesntknow: Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.

[24.media.tumblr.com image 400x300]


Good god, that picture hurt my soul.
 
2012-09-25 04:46:08 PM
TV? Not TV's fault. I blame:

1. Home schooling
2. Fox News
3. Fluoride in the water
4. Vaccines
5. Cell phones
6. The Iraq war
 
2012-09-25 04:46:46 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


Kinda chicken vs. eggy though, you must admit. Favors middle to upper middle class white people, who are also likely the most college ready.
 
2012-09-25 04:47:14 PM
Don't blame television. Kids hardly watch it these days. They spend most of their time on their cell phones texting....so spelling will be taking a big hit too. k thx bai.
 
2012-09-25 04:47:19 PM
Also has a lot to do with the emphasis we place on math and science over things like reading comprehension and basic insight into people in our society.

Both humanities and science are important for different reasons, I don't care how much money either side makes.
 
2012-09-25 04:47:26 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


Prepare for an onslaught of white guys who couldn't get into the Advanced Mediocrity program and NE State University because of the bias against white guys.
 
2012-09-25 04:47:34 PM
Wait a minute.

Does this include penalizing/percentage based scores accounting for the god-awful essay section they added? (the section that, as far as i can tell, no colleges ACTUALLY LOOK AT?)

Because that was a retarded idea from the beginning, especially since whoever judges/reads the essay is going to be subjective, unless they have 1 person read ALL the essays...
 
2012-09-25 04:48:51 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


So you think there should be an ebonics section or something?

I think that's a pussy excuse. The SAT & ACT were not that difficult.
 
2012-09-25 04:51:29 PM
Aren't the SATs adjusted in order to produce a bell curve like IQ testing?

Your average SAT test from 20 years is completely different than the one today difficulty wise.
 
2012-09-25 04:51:54 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


that's just bullshiat. granted it's been a decade since I took the SAT, but from what I remember, it's just straight up math, or knowing the specific definition of words. If you want to say white people are biased to just know more stuff, that's fine, but that's racist. If you want to say, it favors mid to upper middle class PEOPLE in general because they can afford tutors, that's fine too, and probably closer to the reality.
 
2012-09-25 04:52:38 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


I would like to see some stats that take into account how much test prep the students did. Would be very helpful into making some conclusions. It's definitely an advantage having that prep time to get a feel of what the test is like and it's something that's out of the reach of most of the poor.
 
2012-09-25 04:52:55 PM
Personally, I blame Bush.
 
2012-09-25 04:52:55 PM
No Child Left Behind results are in...

College isn't for everyone. Formal education isn't for everyone... but some idiots in Washington think that every kid should be educated at the same level and thus in elementary school and junior high where there are no honor classes or AP classes the 10% of students that still don't know how to read and add by 8th grade slow down the class for everyone.

Let the 10% or so fail and concentrate on the 90% that can do the work without explaining to them why 2 + 2 = 4 every single day because they just won't get it.
 
2012-09-25 04:52:58 PM
When is the SAT going to get with the times and add a Video Gaming section to these tests?
 
2012-09-25 04:54:24 PM
www.w3f.com
 
2012-09-25 04:55:49 PM
SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, television

SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, Unions 

FTFY
 
2012-09-25 04:56:13 PM
More like "thanks, poor parenting". Most parents these days ship their kids off to school, and that's all the education they get. Gone are the days of parents helping their kids learn how to read, doing homework with them, etc. Parents plop the kid down in front of the TV or video games and veg in front of the TV themselves.
 
2012-09-25 04:56:47 PM
Statistics Comprehension scores must be down, too.
 
2012-09-25 04:57:46 PM

super_grass: Aren't the SATs adjusted in order to produce a bell curve like IQ testing?

Your average SAT test from 20 years is completely different than the one today difficulty wise.


If that was the case, SAT scores couldn't be dropping. By definition most people would score about average.
 
2012-09-25 04:58:16 PM
Just my own story, but from the time my daughter started watching TV, I ran it with closed captioning on.
/She became an excellent reader.
 
ows
2012-09-25 04:58:30 PM
we should pay teachers more

amirite?
 
2012-09-25 04:59:03 PM

Walker: Don't blame television. Kids hardly watch it these days. They spend most of their time on their cell phones texting....so spelling will be taking a big hit too. k thx bai.


All of my kiddos have cell phones. Me and their mother have stressed to them both that cell phone abbreviated "speak" is not acceptable. I have caught them a few times when doing homework trying that crap and made them put in the correct spelling. I tell them they will thank me when they get out in the work force if they can actually fill out an application without abbreviating everything. As of yet none of the teachers at the school are getting lax where they accept this kind of behavior and we try to look at all of the graded homework the kids have brought home.
My kids also spend time online but we make sure they read as well. They all read above their grade level and my middle son who is a sophomore is reading at a college junior level.
I never took the SAT in school but took the ACT. Has it changed so much since 1989 that you have to pay even for practice tests now?
 
2012-09-25 04:59:50 PM

Clemkadidlefark: SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, television

SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, Unions  Bush

FTFY

 
2012-09-25 05:00:29 PM
ur welcome!

-cell phones
 
2012-09-25 05:00:36 PM
The fear of confrontation has neutered our society. You can find similar issues with the MMO gaming community, their expectations have outstripped the ability of the industry, creating an endless cycle of financial failure. People, on average, are incapable of making informed decisions - and they've shown it to be true time and time again. Instead of merely saying, "This is why we can't have nice things...", kick the problem in the ass and resolve the matter.
 
2012-09-25 05:01:05 PM

jimmyjackfunk: I never took the SAT in school but took the ACT. Has it changed so much since 1989 that you have to pay even for practice tests now?


Yes, and they're expensive. And there's a whole industry of tutors that will spend several hours teaching your precious snowflake the test. If you have the money.
 
2012-09-25 05:01:50 PM
You mean, "Thanks evangelicals and the discovery institute for infiltrating government positions and slowly dismantling the education system and trying to force science classes in the public school system to teach a theological farce as it it were reality under the premise that early indoctrination would help flagging church attendance and revenue."
 
2012-09-25 05:02:22 PM
So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.
 
2012-09-25 05:03:42 PM

12349876: jimmyjackfunk: I never took the SAT in school but took the ACT. Has it changed so much since 1989 that you have to pay even for practice tests now?

Yes, and they're expensive. And there's a whole industry of tutors that will spend several hours teaching your precious snowflake the test. If you have the money.


Ah, yes. Teaching to the test is truly the way to gain an education.
 
2012-09-25 05:04:54 PM
o.onionstatic.com
 
2012-09-25 05:05:44 PM

smitty04: [www.w3f.com image 462x350]


Oh look, something that's not actually germane to reality.
 
2012-09-25 05:06:59 PM

sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.


RAT'S LACISS!

On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.
 
2012-09-25 05:07:28 PM
I wouldn't be all that surprised that "college entrance" test scores are going down, as the are totally voluntary and not all students take them. The number of students (and % of all students) taking the SAT is naturally climbing over time as college has gone from "for the smart folks" to "for everyone". Comparing one year's SAT scores to another year is likewise difficult as the test changes from year to year and in some years is actually harder than in others.

In sum: Statewide test scores would be more helpful to study what's going on with the student body. SAT is an artificial and variable sample, so it is not helpful in determining if the student body as a whole has higher or lower reading/math/etc. ability.
 
2012-09-25 05:08:47 PM

super_grass: sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.

RAT'S LACISS!

On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.


Because in the real world, some jobs require independent thought and creativity.
 
2012-09-25 05:09:57 PM

simplicimus: super_grass: sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.

RAT'S LACISS!

On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.

Because in the real world, some jobs require independent thought and creativity.


how I wish that were true.
 
2012-09-25 05:11:30 PM

smitty04: [www.w3f.com image 462x350]


Except that's totally wrong, and the real problem is...

super_grass: On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.


touché
 
2012-09-25 05:12:06 PM

smitty04: [www.w3f.com image 462x350]


That cartoon is shocking.

Why would public education force our children to disco?
 
2012-09-25 05:19:47 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


College readiness doesn't mean that you will finish. There are many factors that will lead to people not finishing school. When males were faced with those factors they tended to leave school and not finish at a later date because they were able to find physical labor jobs that females normally wouldn't go into that paid well.
 
2012-09-25 05:20:06 PM

Sticky Hands: simplicimus: super_grass: sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.

RAT'S LACISS!

On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.

Because in the real world, some jobs require independent thought and creativity.

how I wish that were true.


All my various careers, programmer, DBA, software tester, hardware tester, required those attributes.
 
2012-09-25 05:22:15 PM
Wait a minute... TV has been around longer than 40 years!

ranier_wolfcastle.jpg
 
2012-09-25 05:22:25 PM
Clearly the teachers just aren't teaching hard enough CUT ALL FUNDING NOW
 
2012-09-25 05:23:16 PM

Sticky Hands: simplicimus: super_grass: sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.

RAT'S LACISS!

On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.

Because in the real world, some jobs require independent thought and creativity.

how I wish that were true.


The fries are done when the ringer goes off, not before and not after.
 
2012-09-25 05:24:39 PM
iseeahappyface.com
 
2012-09-25 05:26:06 PM

apotheosis27: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

So you think there should be an ebonics section or something?

I think that's a pussy excuse. The SAT & ACT were not that difficult.


What white males see.............

elementaryalgebra.pages3d.net

What females see..........

ej.iop.org

What non-Asian minorities see.......

24.media.tumblr.com

What Asian minorities see........

www.billybear4kids.com 

At least, that's what some would have us believe.
 
2012-09-25 05:28:02 PM
media.northjersey.com 

Successful parents have successful kids, but is it due to inheritance on environmental?
 
2012-09-25 05:33:24 PM
imageshack.us
 
2012-09-25 05:33:57 PM
kelevra23.files.wordpress.com
 
2012-09-25 05:34:33 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


Because the test does not correlate to the materials being taught in school. Those students that take SAT/ACT prep classes, take PSATs, and take outside tutoring specifically for the SAT/ACT will do better than those that do not. I never took any SAT/ACT prep classes, yet was #2 in my class (would have been #1 but my GPA was brought down because I also played sports - maximum GPA contribution is 4.0 when my other classes were 5.0 due to AP classes) and graduated magna cum laude from college - yet my SAT scores were only above average. Well-to-do families can and do send their kids to SAT classes and take PSATs. Magnet schools and upper-end schools offer these programs. It is no coincidence that these schools test higher, however, I also do not think that quality of education is any if at all less at lower-income areas than the rich schools.
 
2012-09-25 05:35:16 PM

smitty04: [media.northjersey.com image 550x385] 

Successful parents have successful kids, but is it due to inheritance on environmental?


Probably their inheritance, can't be the environment in Jersey.
 
2012-09-25 05:43:34 PM

Sybarite: The chart clearly shows an inverse correlation between SAT scores and poverty. As the poverty rate goes up, as defined by qualification for reduced prices lunches, SAT and ACT scores go down


Thank you for this powerful graphic showing that free lunches destroy education. If only we could appreciate the full impact of public education on education.
 
2012-09-25 05:43:44 PM
There are more cell phones in Korea than there are people and they do prety well at math.
 
2012-09-25 05:46:04 PM
Is this where we pipe in with our scores from way back?

SAT: 680 English/590 math= 1270 out of 1600

ACT: 30

/Not great, but not bad. Took both tests cold--no prep.
 
2012-09-25 05:46:21 PM
My personal reading skills have suffered due to the infestation of my favorite literary genres (sci-fi, fantasy and horror) by an army of simpering bimbos with two letters for a first name.
 
2012-09-25 05:48:49 PM

apotheosis27: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

So you think there should be an ebonics section or something?

I think that's a pussy excuse. The SAT & ACT were not that difficult.


Where did I say that? I'm just pointing out that this test does not "test" what it purports to test. Like I said, they claim it tests college readiness, but more women than men graduate from college, while men score higher than women on the test. Ipso facto, it does not test what it claims to test.
 
2012-09-25 05:49:01 PM

fickenchucker: Is this where we pipe in with our scores from way back?

SAT: 680 English/590 math= 1270 out of 1600

ACT: 30

/Not great, but not bad. Took both tests cold--no prep.


Didn't take the ACT. My SAT was 1490, but I was pretty stoned while taking it.
 
2012-09-25 05:49:45 PM

Rapmaster2000: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

Prepare for an onslaught of white guys who couldn't get into the Advanced Mediocrity program and NE State University because of the bias against white guys.


Wow, no kidding.

I don't understand what the problem is with pointing out stats like this. (Well except for the fact that lots of people don't understand how statistics work).
 
2012-09-25 05:53:12 PM

depmode98: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

that's just bullshiat. granted it's been a decade since I took the SAT, but from what I remember, it's just straight up math, or knowing the specific definition of words. If you want to say white people are biased to just know more stuff, that's fine, but that's racist. If you want to say, it favors mid to upper middle class PEOPLE in general because they can afford tutors, that's fine too, and probably closer to the reality.


I didn't say white people know more. I just pointed out that white males tend to do better on this test than other groups, which is true. What I really should have pointed out was that it's the money - family income that really makes a difference - which probably goes to your point about tutoring (but really, I think it's the education they can afford to buy).

LInky
 
2012-09-25 05:54:35 PM

simplicimus: Sticky Hands: simplicimus: super_grass: sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.

RAT'S LACISS!

On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.

Because in the real world, some jobs require independent thought and creativity.

how I wish that were true.

All my various careers, programmer, DBA, software tester, hardware tester, required those attributes.


Computer Programming is a good example. I only have an Associates degree and make more money than I ever thought I would. College degrees don't write software for you and even big companies can only afford so many unproductive degree collectors. I'm guessing engineering is the same way and that's why companies go overseas for their engineers today.
 
2012-09-25 05:54:57 PM

sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.


Actually, Asian-Americans only score better in the mathematics. Whites beat them in both critical reading and writing.

Link
 
2012-09-25 05:57:54 PM

the money is in the banana stand: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

Because the test does not correlate to the materials being taught in school. Those students that take SAT/ACT prep classes, take PSATs, and take outside tutoring specifically for the SAT/ACT will do better than those that do not. I never took any SAT/ACT prep classes, yet was #2 in my class (would have been #1 but my GPA was brought down because I also played sports - maximum GPA contribution is 4.0 when my other classes were 5.0 due to AP classes) and graduated magna cum laude from college - yet my SAT scores were only above average. Well-to-do families can and do send their kids to SAT classes and take PSATs. Magnet schools and upper-end schools offer these programs. It is no coincidence that these schools test higher, however, I also do not think that quality of education is any if at all less at lower-income areas than the rich schools.


Do you have evidence that SAT scores under predict college results of low income students? And if so by how much? What if studies showed SAT scores over predicted the results of low income students, would you reverse your stance?

I think there are variations in the quality of education across schools, but I am guessing a lot of the variation comes from the inputs (rich students are probably more likely to have educated parents who focus on education and/or smart parents who provide smart person genes).
 
2012-09-25 05:59:19 PM
So guns don't kill people, but televisions make people stupid.



Got it.
 
2012-09-25 06:06:44 PM
As someone who took the SAT in 1972, I don't know whether to gloat or to be embarrassed.
 
2012-09-25 06:10:22 PM

hitlersbrain: Computer Programming is a good example. I only have an Associates degree and make more money than I ever thought I would. College degrees don't write software for you and even big companies can only afford so many unproductive degree collectors. I'm guessing engineering is the same way and that's why companies go overseas for their engineers today.


Please, these unproductive degree collectors prefer the term MBA.
 
2012-09-25 06:21:20 PM

You're the jerk... jerk: the money is in the banana stand: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

Because the test does not correlate to the materials being taught in school. Those students that take SAT/ACT prep classes, take PSATs, and take outside tutoring specifically for the SAT/ACT will do better than those that do not. I never took any SAT/ACT prep classes, yet was #2 in my class (would have been #1 but my GPA was brought down because I also played sports - maximum GPA contribution is 4.0 when my other classes were 5.0 due to AP classes) and graduated magna cum laude from college - yet my SAT scores were only above average. Well-to-do families can and do send their kids to SAT classes and take PSATs. Magnet schools and upper-end schools offer these programs. It is no coincidence that these schools test higher, however, I also do not think that quality of education is any if at all less at lower-income areas than the rich schools.

Do you have evidence that SAT scores under predict college results of low income students? And if so by how much? What if studies showed SAT scores over predicted the results of low income students, would you reverse your stance?

I think there are variations in the quality of education across schools, but I am guessing a lot of the variation comes from the inputs (rich students are probably more likely to have educated parents who focus on education and/or smart parents who provide smart person genes).


I believe that the SATs are a terrible indicator of intelligence. I am not a fan of standardized testing of any sort. There are vast amounts of subjects not even covered by the SATs. You have Math and Reading (I guess there is a Composition portion nowadays too). Never mind the fact that the scope of material for both are "odd" to say the least and not very broad, there are tons of subject matters not even addressed by the test. I have never understood the purpose of the SATs. I agree with you on the topic of inputs, the more affluent schools will have parents that give a damn, or are in a position to help their children succeed which will affect the scores - not necessarily that the quality of education is lower.
 
2012-09-25 06:21:24 PM

simplicimus: hitlersbrain: Computer Programming is a good example. I only have an Associates degree and make more money than I ever thought I would. College degrees don't write software for you and even big companies can only afford so many unproductive degree collectors. I'm guessing engineering is the same way and that's why companies go overseas for their engineers today.

Please, these unproductive degree collectors prefer the term MBA.


This.

I recall an old commercial on the radio with a woman explaining something to a colleague. As she notices his initial difficulties in grasping whatever she is attempting to explain, he retorts with, "But, I'm an MBA."

After which, she uses slower speech and small words in an effort to better explain the material.
 
2012-09-25 06:23:42 PM
• American Indian---482/480 (962)
• Asian American-----575/508 (1083)
• African American-----426/431 (857)
• Puerto Rican----457/448 (905)

Other Hispanic----464/457 (921)

• White-----534/529 (1063)
• Other ----513/501 (1014)

Asian Americans are kicking a$$.
 
2012-09-25 06:27:18 PM

smitty04:  

Successful parents have successful kids, but is it due to inheritance on environmental?


This! Trends follow homes that value education.
 
2012-09-25 06:34:02 PM
Nothing a bit of appropriate normalization won't cure. Life goes on...
 
2012-09-25 06:45:53 PM

scottydoesntknow: Unless that kid bought the television and is paying for the cable with his/her own money, I think the blame can rest on the parents.


I grew up with TV and video games.

Everyone I knew grew up with TV and video games.

No Net, no cell phone.

We can all read at least one language and at don't idk my bff Jill or NTTARWT abbreviate.
 
2012-09-25 06:46:59 PM
Thank the Corportist governements for destraying thi educations systemz so peeps willz be too stupids to rebel againx their bullshait and liez and loves being slave.
 
2012-09-25 06:49:48 PM
No mention of America's continuing trend of dysgenics.
 
2012-09-25 06:54:21 PM
I'd argue that a test done in the senior year of H.S. (i.e. SAT) is doing pretty well to explain an entire 40% of the variance in freshman performance. With the sample size they're using that would be a p-value of p
 
2012-09-25 06:56:56 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


Master race FTW
 
2012-09-25 06:59:13 PM
FTA:
"More than 1.66 million graduating seniors last year took the test, the highest number in history. Nearly half were minorities and about a quarter reported that English was not exclusively their first language. More than a quarter of public school test-takers - 27 percent - had family income low enough to qualify for a fee waiver, and more than a third - 36 percent - reported that their parents had not gone to college."

What does any of this have to do with anything? Working hard and giving a fark has nothing to do with any of that. If you don't know English, learn it or go back to whatever shiathole country you came from

/Am I doing it right?
 
2012-09-25 07:02:24 PM

Clemkadidlefark: SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, television

SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, Unions 
Jesus
FTFY


FTFY
 
2012-09-25 07:05:46 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


We're never going to get a test that everyone deems 'fair', so why don't we just hold a lottery for college admissions? If your number gets drawn, you go, if it doesn't, you're SOL. And we can use the same technique for jobs. If you want a particular job, you put your name in. If it gets drawn, presto, you're a brain surgeon or whatever.

If equality and an equal outcome for all is your goal, that's the way to get it.
 
2012-09-25 07:13:01 PM
Several things to consider:

(1) There's not really some universal standard at play here, as the de facto requirements for literacy have in fact changed since 1973 as well. It's likely that the test failing to keep up with changing culture is as big or bigger a factor than any actual change in student proficiency. This is the reason why most tests actually regarded as competently designed actually have some sort of normalization or standard ingrained in the final score, and why the SAT has to supply the score distribution to institutions to make it meaningful.

(2) Initially, the SAT was almost entirely administered to people that were probably going to college, the top 2% GPA types, etc. That's been expanded significantly, with the lower bound on scholastic interest dropping without a corresponding addition of more of the known top performers participating. It's entirely possible that overall/average ability in this subject has increased, with the average score being simultaneously brought down by the increase in the low-end test takers participating.

(3) The above said, we actually could do a lot to improve the primary/secondary education system. I'm just saying that EVERYBODY PANIC AND BUY MORE KAPLAN PRACTICE GUIDES that the article's trying to shill is not one of those things. I'm a bit annoyed by a scaremongering marketing blitz being treated as real news. Yes, there are issues, but it's not a damned "crisis", already. Calm the fark down.
 
2012-09-25 07:33:04 PM
On a side note, did anyone else notice the links to other articles below this one?
"How not to sound racist when talking about black studies" is it possible to not sound racist, even if you are black? I got a look at the required books for that course. (Did used books as a sideline for a couple of years.) That stuff is truly racist.
Aggressively point out what dead people did. Accuse contemporaries of same activities. The louder the better. Demand compensation.
 
2012-09-25 07:34:22 PM

Walker: Don't blame television. Kids hardly watch it these days. They spend most of their time on their cell phones texting....so spelling will be taking a big hit too. k thx bai.


OMFG!!!!!LOL!!!1!
 
2012-09-25 07:36:30 PM
Now that I think about it...

I wonder if the rise of e-books and the fall of paper books will make a difference.

I grew up in a house with thousands of books, and despite my natural idiocy I can at *least* claim to be slightly literate. There were books there for the taking! A kid could pick them up when they were bored and see what was in them, and maybe even read it.

Kids may not have the same serendipitous ability to reach for a book when they're bored now... Mommy or Daddy's Kindle / Nook / iPad / whatever doesn't have the same availability, yet I'd bet that kids can play Angry Birds on whatever device since they know to ask for it. There's no discovery there.
 
2012-09-25 07:40:30 PM
Looks like all that yearly standardized testing -and the bastardization of education that is "teaching to the test" which goes along with it- is having the desired effect. Thanks TAAS.
 
2012-09-25 07:41:05 PM
1210 on SAT. Twice. Math up 10 points, reading down 10. Ran out of time on both, both times. Have a learning disability, but don't like calling attention to it. I could have gotten unlimited time, but that would have meant something else for the kids to tease me about. What I did finish on the tests, I was close to 100% on. Took test prep in between with my twin(who scored below 900), which was a waste, but he couldn't go alone, and he also couldn't finish with a score below 900. So I was signed up to be his support. That was a worthless class. I was the class nerd, all over again, during the summer this time.

/shiatty childhood
//spent reading in my room.
///engineer-in-training(EE & ME)
////I'm not going to be your boss, I'm going to own the whole damn corporation
 
2012-09-25 08:00:28 PM
Trance354:

1210 on SAT. Twice. Math up 10 points, reading down 10. Ran out of time on both, both times. Have a learning disability, but don't like calling attention to it. I could have gotten unlimited time, but that would have meant something else for the kids to tease me about. What I did finish on the tests, I was close to 100% on. Took test prep in between with my twin(who scored below 900), which was a waste, but he couldn't go alone, and he also couldn't finish with a score below 900. So I was signed up to be his support. That was a worthless class. I was the class nerd, all over again, during the summer this time.

/shiatty childhood
//spent reading in my room.
///engineer-in-training(EE & ME)
////I'm not going to be your boss, I'm going to own the whole damn corporation


I feel for the kids who have to take the new written exam.

I took a number of AP tests in high school that saved me a lot of tuition, and what gave me fits was the writing. I don't have a learning disability, I have a writing disability. I know what I want to put down, but it takes me much longer than most to write it out longhand, my hands betray me. I'd be absolutely farked by the current test.

/ had very, very good, like scholarship-good scores on the PSAT and SAT. Would bomb the current tests.
 
2012-09-25 08:09:13 PM
ctl+F *subtitles*

I am disappointed.

Dont blame television.

We have a television in our work area. I always turn on the subtitles; mostly because we keep the volume muted. Most colleagues complain about it -reading is hard.
 
2012-09-25 08:10:24 PM
Meanwhile, teacher salaries have tripled during this time.

We need to cut teacher salaries so we can get higher scores.
 
2012-09-25 08:14:26 PM

jjorsett: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

We're never going to get a test that everyone deems 'fair', so why don't we just hold a lottery for college admissions? If your number gets drawn, you go, if it doesn't, you're SOL. And we can use the same technique for jobs. If you want a particular job, you put your name in. If it gets drawn, presto, you're a brain surgeon or whatever.

If equality and an equal outcome for all is your goal, that's the way to get it.


Once again, I never said that, either. Just pointed out that this test does not measure what the SAT/ACT people say it measures. I also pointed out it has built-in biases that favor mid to upper class white people, which is statistically true (check the links I posted above).

Do I wish there were an alternative that offered more equity or equality? Sure, doesn't everyone? Did I suggest that we needed some radical or ridiculous method, like your above example? Absolutely not. I understand that admittance to college is competitive - there are limited spots for numerous applicants so of course there is competition. I'm just pointing out that SAT/ACT scores aren't necessarily an accurate measure of college readiness - which many colleges are recognizing, as they are reducing the value of those scores in their admittance measurements.
 
2012-09-25 08:17:44 PM
Any retard can father a child. AND THEY DO.
 
2012-09-25 08:17:51 PM
deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com

Unpossible!
 
2012-09-25 08:23:47 PM

simplicimus: 12349876: jimmyjackfunk: I never took the SAT in school but took the ACT. Has it changed so much since 1989 that you have to pay even for practice tests now?

Yes, and they're expensive. And there's a whole industry of tutors that will spend several hours teaching your precious snowflake the test. If you have the money.

Ah, yes. Teaching to the test is truly the way to gain an education.


yes, its far better to make them feel good about their D than to teach what is going to be on a test.

That's all that happens in the real world, after all. Bosses telling their workers that failing is ok as long as they tried. Being able to produce, that's not wanted.
 
2012-09-25 08:26:37 PM
SAT reading scores are the lowest they've been in 40 years. Thanks, television

Sure, it's TV's fault. The fools we over pay for working 9 months a year to teach students bear no responsibility.
 
2012-09-25 08:29:26 PM

simplicimus: super_grass: sprd: So I guess the SAT and ACT are biased towards Asian-Americans since they consistently achieve higher scores than any other demographic. Someday science will be able to use a probe to clock your brain speed through your retinas. When that happens you will finally realize the truth even though most of you will still even deny it.

RAT'S LACISS!

On another note, why are people blaming NCLB? If anything, it encourages schools to teach kids how to take a test.

Because in the real world, some jobs require independent thought and creativity.


jjorsett: Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.


This just proves that females have a daddy that will give them more money so they can stay in school and find a husband that can get a job. Daddy doesn't want them moving back in. Junior, they can have him transfer to the school of hard knocks if he doesnt want to study.
 
2012-09-25 08:29:56 PM
The best predictor of college success is the types of classes a student takes in high school (honors, AP, etc).

But by all means let cut those classes and focus on remedial classes for the "underprivileged."
 
2012-09-25 08:33:05 PM
Expected to read that students and teachers bear no responsibility for low SAT scores, leaving satisfied. 

i46.tinypic.com
 
2012-09-25 08:40:59 PM
 
2012-09-25 08:48:23 PM

simon_bar_sinister: On a side note, did anyone else notice the links to other articles below this one?
"How not to sound racist when talking about black studies" is it possible to not sound racist, even if you are black? I got a look at the required books for that course. (Did used books as a sideline for a couple of years.) That stuff is truly racist.
Aggressively point out what dead people did. Accuse contemporaries of same activities. The louder the better. Demand compensation.


From what I saw, every problem ever caused in the world was caused by the white man. If you look at the books from a woman studies class, every problem ever caused in the world was caused by men. I would not do well in either class since I have a habit of calling out bullshiat when I see it. Did that in my polisci class in college when the teacher stated something that was easily proven false. I almost failed because of that.
 
2012-09-25 08:52:05 PM

Rambino: TV? Not TV's fault. I blame:

1. Home schooling
2. Fox News
3. Fluoride in the water
4. Vaccines
5. Cell phones
6. The Iraq war


You forgot Poland
 
2012-09-25 08:57:28 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


I think the real value of the SAT/ACT regarding college readiness is that if you are testing in the bottom or upper 20% or so, then you probably aren't/are ready for college, respectively. Saying that a 95th percentile student is much more qualified for Harvard than a 85th percentile student, however, gives the test too much credit.

What is truly ridiculous is the General Subject GRE. For those who don't know, it's basically a difficult SAT for getting into grad school. Luckily, I double majored in a physical science and a liberal art so I was well prepared for the exam, but I felt sorry for straight science majors who were suddenly asked to write philosophical essays and read esoteric passages about literature and such. There are subject-specific GRE's, which is great, but for my field (in the sciences) there isn't so we take the general GRE. Luckily it is good for 5 years so you don't have to take it again for your phd if you go straight into it.
 
2012-09-25 09:03:27 PM
I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.
 
2012-09-25 09:12:44 PM

the money is in the banana stand: I believe that the SATs are a terrible indicator of intelligence. I am not a fan of standardized testing of any sort. There are vast amounts of subjects not even covered by the SATs. You have Math and Reading (I guess there is a Composition portion nowadays too). Never mind the fact that the scope of material for both are "odd" to say the least and not very broad, there are tons of subject matters not even addressed by the test. I have never understood the purpose of the SATs. I agree with you on the topic of inputs, the more affluent schools will have parents that give a damn, or are in a position to help their children succeed which will affect the scores - not necessarily that the quality of education is lower.


The SAT does a relatively good job at predicting what it is intended to predict (freshman college performance). Even though schools only admit within a narrow band of SAT scores the variation generally explains 10-20% of the variation in grades. It actually over predicts the performance of some groups (men and URMs), this is especially interesting for URMs because that would indicate the test is biased towards those groups.

Do you think more affluent parents only bring environmental factors? Is there a genetic disposition?
 
2012-09-25 09:14:45 PM
citoriman:

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

I think the real value of the SAT/ACT regarding college readiness is that if you are testing in the bottom or upper 20% or so, then you probably aren't/are ready for college, respectively. Saying that a 95th percentile student is much more qualified for Harvard than a 85th percentile student, however, gives the test too much credit.

What is truly ridiculous is the General Subject GRE. For those who don't know, it's basically a difficult SAT for getting into grad school. Luckily, I double majored in a physical science and a liberal art so I was well prepared for the exam, but I felt sorry for straight science majors who were suddenly asked to write philosophical essays and read esoteric passages about literature and such. There are subject-specific GRE's, which is great, but for my field (in the sciences) there isn't so we take the general GRE. Luckily it is good for 5 years so you don't have to take it again for your phd if you go straight into it.


Standardized tests are... Measures of how well you take standardized tests. Pre-grad school is a measure of how well you deal with pre-grad school. Postgrad is a little more wild-and-wooley.

There is no 'one size fits all' but like the real world of resumes and job interviews, there has to be some means to sort the wheat from the chaff. There has to be a reason to tell 95% of all applicants to get lost. Hence, tests. Not terribly meaningful, not terribly fair. But they're a filter like anything else in one's career.
 
2012-09-25 09:19:34 PM
The_Original_Roxtar:

I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.

I'm gonna ask... HOW many books do you have out for kiddos to grab?

/ am guessing you don't have kids, so the active role bit is humor.
 
2012-09-25 09:25:50 PM

maxheck: The_Original_Roxtar:

I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.

I'm gonna ask... HOW many books do you have out for kiddos to grab?

/ am guessing you don't have kids, so the active role bit is humor.


My kid had lots of books available, we read to her every night, CC turned on the TV, even had a children's version of the Iliad (Which she loved).
 
2012-09-25 09:29:40 PM

maxheck: The_Original_Roxtar:

I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.

I'm gonna ask... HOW many books do you have out for kiddos to grab?

/ am guessing you don't have kids, so the active role bit is humor.


you're right. I don't have kids. What I do have is a lot of friends who are teachers. Invariably, they tell me that the kids who do poorly and have trouble learning are the same kids whose parents never show up to conferences, don't return phone calls about the fact that little timmy is struggling, etc.

I also have a niece and 2 nephews. I read with them, I solve puzzles with them, I challenge their intellect whenever possible.

oh, i get it now... you're one of those "YOU'RE NOT A PARENT SO YOU CAN'T HAVE AN OPINION!!!111" idiots. yes, your ability to have unprotected sex clearly makes you an expert on child rearing.
 
2012-09-25 09:37:03 PM

maxheck: citoriman:

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.

I think the real value of the SAT/ACT regarding college readiness is that if you are testing in the bottom or upper 20% or so, then you probably aren't/are ready for college, respectively. Saying that a 95th percentile student is much more qualified for Harvard than a 85th percentile student, however, gives the test too much credit.

What is truly ridiculous is the General Subject GRE. For those who don't know, it's basically a difficult SAT for getting into grad school. Luckily, I double majored in a physical science and a liberal art so I was well prepared for the exam, but I felt sorry for straight science majors who were suddenly asked to write philosophical essays and read esoteric passages about literature and such. There are subject-specific GRE's, which is great, but for my field (in the sciences) there isn't so we take the general GRE. Luckily it is good for 5 years so you don't have to take it again for your phd if you go straight into it.

Standardized tests are... Measures of how well you take standardized tests. Pre-grad school is a measure of how well you deal with pre-grad school. Postgrad is a little more wild-and-wooley.

There is no 'one size fits all' but like the real world of resumes and job interviews, there has to be some means to sort the wheat from the chaff. There has to be a reason to tell 95% of all applicants to get lost. Hence, tests. Not terribly meaningful, not terribly fair. But they're a filter like anything else in one's career.


Ya, like you said, its a filter. Unfair to some yes, meaningless, no. If you totally blow a standardized test that basically asks you to read something, then answer questions about what you just read, chances are you will be a challenging employee to train and manage, or a difficult student to teach. Likewise, a 99th percentile examinee is simply going to succeed in school. We live, work, and study in a standardized world, so an instrument that checks to see how well you perform on a standardized task is pretty useful.
 
2012-09-25 09:43:16 PM

Nutsac_Jim: simplicimus: 12349876: jimmyjackfunk: I never took the SAT in school but took the ACT. Has it changed so much since 1989 that you have to pay even for practice tests now?

Yes, and they're expensive. And there's a whole industry of tutors that will spend several hours teaching your precious snowflake the test. If you have the money.

Ah, yes. Teaching to the test is truly the way to gain an education.

yes, its far better to make them feel good about their D than to teach what is going to be on a test.

That's all that happens in the real world, after all. Bosses telling their workers that failing is ok as long as they tried. Being able to produce, that's not wanted.


OK, I never raised that point, but let's talk: No, feeling good about low scores is not good. Production is of course the desired result of employment. But I will say, having a B.A and a B.S. sent me out as a wolf amongst sheep in the business world.
 
2012-09-25 09:46:42 PM
simplicimus:

maxheck: The_Original_Roxtar:

I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.

I'm gonna ask... HOW many books do you have out for kiddos to grab?

/ am guessing you don't have kids, so the active role bit is humor.

My kid had lots of books available, we read to her every night, CC turned on the TV, even had a children's version of the Iliad (Which she loved).


I love reading aloud, heck, when I hit an exceptionally good passage I do it even without an audience. And I love reading aloud to my nieces and nephews, making a new voice for each character... I do not have a voice for radio, but... And I've found that every girlfriend I've been with loves being read aloud to, because... Duh! It's wonderful!

Now, I'm not gonna say you should read aloud to the ones you love every chance you get, but... :)
 
2012-09-25 09:48:40 PM
citoriman

Ya, like you said, its a filter. Unfair to some yes, meaningless, no. If you totally blow a standardized test that basically asks you to read something, then answer questions about what you just read, chances are you will be a challenging employee to train and manage, or a difficult student to teach. Likewise, a 99th percentile examinee is simply going to succeed in school. We live, work, and study in a standardized world, so an instrument that checks to see how well you perform on a standardized task is pretty useful.

Well, if you read too slowly or are too stupid to re-read the test during the test, you probably won't succeed.
 
2012-09-25 09:56:13 PM
The_Original_Roxtar:

maxheck: The_Original_Roxtar:

I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.

I'm gonna ask... HOW many books do you have out for kiddos to grab?

/ am guessing you don't have kids, so the active role bit is humor.

you're right. I don't have kids. What I do have is a lot of friends who are teachers. Invariably, they tell me that the kids who do poorly and have trouble learning are the same kids whose parents never show up to conferences, don't return phone calls about the fact that little timmy is struggling, etc.

I also have a niece and 2 nephews. I read with them, I solve puzzles with them, I challenge their intellect whenever possible.

oh, i get it now... you're one of those "YOU'RE NOT A PARENT SO YOU CAN'T HAVE AN OPINION!!!111" idiots. yes, your ability to have unprotected sex clearly makes you an expert on child rearing.


I hope that response was just as sarcastic as the post I made that elicited it.

/ don't get me started about the current "fark teachers" movement.
 
2012-09-25 10:19:49 PM
As a Special Ed teacher I'll say this.....college is not for everybody. I sit in IEP meetings where kids who have no business in college are told "you can do it." While that makes a great war cry at the district office the reality is most of my kids should not be told they can go to college, i tell them "if you don't like this high school thing you really aren't going to like college. If you decide to go to community college why don't you check out some auto mechanics or some HVAC or some plumbing." Seriously, if you can't do fractions and you can't identify where to use punctuation you probably aren't going to meet that goal of becoming an engineer, so let's be honest about it.
 
2012-09-25 10:25:42 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


That's because we're the smartest people in America statistically speaking.
 
2012-09-25 10:37:05 PM

Kimothy: Maybe if the SAT and ACT actually tested what they claim to test, this wouldn't matter.

They claim they test "college readiness" but white males outscore every other group, but white females graduate from college at the highest rate. If this test really tested "college readiness" women would outscore men.

All tests have built in biases - this one definitely favors mid to upper middle class white people.


I wonder if it has to do with the male majority in STEM degrees where the professor in STEM 100 does the whole "Look to your left, look to your right, only one of you will graduate" and means it vs the women majority majors that have higher graduation rates.

/No stats to back it up, but I know a lot of guys who dropped out of engineering
//I don't know any girls who dropped out of teaching, fine arts, etc.
 
2012-09-25 11:01:21 PM

The_Original_Roxtar: I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.


Sure, thats correct -but what kind of political message is to be derived from that line of thinking?
 
2012-09-25 11:03:34 PM

Frederick: The_Original_Roxtar: I put the blame solely on parents no longer taking an active role in their child(ren)'s education.

Sure, thats correct -but what kind of political message is to be derived from that line of thinking?


Parent Up? Not going to fly with either party.
 
2012-09-25 11:10:32 PM
Why would SAT be reading scores? Does it like music? wait.. nevermind, I read that right.
 
2012-09-25 11:11:17 PM
I had no idea that "television" was another way to say 'unions'.

Congrats unions. You've set us back 40 years.

But hey, there are plenty of other professions where you can't get fired just because you are incompetent, amiright?
 
2012-09-25 11:12:37 PM

dkimball: Why would SAT be reading scores? Does it like music? wait.. nevermind, I read that right.


Hey, at least they could test the kids on the keys in G clef.
 
2012-09-25 11:13:38 PM

SevenizGud: I had no idea that "television" was another way to say 'unions'.

Congrats unions. You've set us back 40 years.

But hey, there are plenty of other professions where you can't get fired just because you are incompetent, amiright?


Well, Congress springs to mind.
 
2012-09-25 11:23:12 PM

You're the jerk... jerk: the money is in the banana stand: I believe that the SATs are a terrible indicator of intelligence. I am not a fan of standardized testing of any sort. There are vast amounts of subjects not even covered by the SATs. You have Math and Reading (I guess there is a Composition portion nowadays too). Never mind the fact that the scope of material for both are "odd" to say the least and not very broad, there are tons of subject matters not even addressed by the test. I have never understood the purpose of the SATs. I agree with you on the topic of inputs, the more affluent schools will have parents that give a damn, or are in a position to help their children succeed which will affect the scores - not necessarily that the quality of education is lower.

The SAT does a relatively good job at predicting what it is intended to predict (freshman college performance). Even though schools only admit within a narrow band of SAT scores the variation generally explains 10-20% of the variation in grades. It actually over predicts the performance of some groups (men and URMs), this is especially interesting for URMs because that would indicate the test is biased towards those groups.

Do you think more affluent parents only bring environmental factors? Is there a genetic disposition?


I think there is an enormous genetic disposition in addition to the environmental factors. My father is a tremendous artist and musician. I inherited his artistic abilities, and my younger brother is a phenomenal bass guitar player. What would happen if neither of us discovered these abilities and did not practice them? Would our progeny no longer have these abilities? How does that work? What if we practiced a lot in something we were not naturally inclined to do? Would that be genetically passed down?
 
2012-09-25 11:31:47 PM
I am shocked...just...shocked...to learn that stupid people are poor. You don't say.
 
2012-09-25 11:31:51 PM

smitty04:
media.northjersey.com 

Successful parents have successful kids, but is it due to inheritance on environmental?


Interesting chart - and my family's income probably was 40K or so when I got my 1450.

/But when I took it, the maximum score was 1600, and the chart is based on maximum 2400.
//730M 720V, bringing balance to the force...
 
2012-09-25 11:52:03 PM
They pretty much say why in the article - a larger percentage of minority and ELL students taking the test. And a validity coefficient of .40 is pretty damn good. Probably would be higher if corrected for range restriction.
 
2012-09-26 03:18:30 AM

Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.


Can't blame television either when the kids are getting bored with the subject matter either.

/Got repeat after repeat until 12th grade.
 
2012-09-26 03:21:42 AM

KidneyStone: Rambino: TV? Not TV's fault. I blame:

1. Home schooling
2. Fox News
3. Fluoride in the water
4. Vaccines
5. Cell phones
6. The Iraq war

You forgot Poland


Funny, I blame:

1: Public education
2: Poor Parenting
3: Lack of good role models
4: Standardized tests
5: CNN/FOX/MSNBC/et al
 
2012-09-26 03:27:13 AM

People_are_Idiots: Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.

Can't blame television either when the kids are getting bored with the subject matter either.

/Got repeat after repeat until 12th grade.


I was actively involved in my daughter's education, pushing an old classical education, reading, music, German, philosophy and busy correcting what was in the Texas Curricula. I'm not saying I'm wonderful, just that parenting is more than handing your kid off to the school system.
 
2012-09-26 03:49:57 AM

simplicimus: People_are_Idiots: Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.

Can't blame television either when the kids are getting bored with the subject matter either.

/Got repeat after repeat until 12th grade.

I was actively involved in my daughter's education, pushing an old classical education, reading, music, German, philosophy and busy correcting what was in the Texas Curricula. I'm not saying I'm wonderful, just that parenting is more than handing your kid off to the school system.


I agree there too, but when parents don't do it, it is up to the schools, and they don't actively engage their minds.
 
2012-09-26 03:54:33 AM

People_are_Idiots: simplicimus: People_are_Idiots: Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.

Can't blame television either when the kids are getting bored with the subject matter either.

/Got repeat after repeat until 12th grade.

I was actively involved in my daughter's education, pushing an old classical education, reading, music, German, philosophy and busy correcting what was in the Texas Curricula. I'm not saying I'm wonderful, just that parenting is more than handing your kid off to the school system.

I agree there too, but when parents don't do it, it is up to the schools, and they don't actively engage their minds.


I'm sorry to agree (no offense to you meant), but you speak the truth.
 
2012-09-26 04:50:47 AM

People_are_Idiots: I agree there too, but when parents don't do it, it is up to the schools, and they don't actively engage their minds.


You can expect the schools to prepare your kids roughly as well as they prepare all the other future subjects of Fark headlines tagged [Fail] or [Dumbass]. If you want your kids to be [Cool] or [Spiffy] or anything else good, or show up in things linked from the Business, Geek or Politics tabs, or best of all be able to write headlines that go green... you'd better be supplementing what they get in school.
 
2012-09-26 04:56:02 AM

dbirchall: People_are_Idiots: I agree there too, but when parents don't do it, it is up to the schools, and they don't actively engage their minds.

You can expect the schools to prepare your kids roughly as well as they prepare all the other future subjects of Fark headlines tagged [Fail] or [Dumbass]. If you want your kids to be [Cool] or [Spiffy] or anything else good, or show up in things linked from the Business, Geek or Politics tabs, or best of all be able to write headlines that go green... you'd better be supplementing what they get in school.


Preaching to the choir, bub.
 
2012-09-26 09:30:21 AM
Its ok, its just a standardized test and we all know they are bunk, teachers unions telll me so.
 
2012-09-26 09:47:45 AM

dbirchall: People_are_Idiots: I agree there too, but when parents don't do it, it is up to the schools, and they don't actively engage their minds.

You can expect the schools to prepare your kids roughly as well as they prepare all the other future subjects of Fark headlines tagged [Fail] or [Dumbass]. If you want your kids to be [Cool] or [Spiffy] or anything else good, or show up in things linked from the Business, Geek or Politics tabs, or best of all be able to write headlines that go green... you'd better be supplementing what they get in school.


And again, it comes to the involvement of the parents' raising their children. Problem is a lot of the time the child's parent -becomes- the TV, and with the plethora of shows out there that kids shouldn't watch, the mind easily becomes mush. Heck, back in my day we had comic books made from the original book, so kids would read it and understand. Do kids have an equivalent?

/used to love reading War of the Worlds, Time Machine, Wuthering Heights, etc...
 
2012-09-26 10:53:59 AM

OgreMagi: From what I saw, every problem ever caused in the world was caused by the white man. If you look at the books from a woman studies class, every problem ever caused in the world was caused by men. I would not do well in either class since I have a habit of calling out bullshiat when I see it. Did that in my polisci class in college when the teacher stated something that was easily proven false. I almost failed because of that.


I'm the libbiest of libs, but I've got to concede that there is some major exaggeration going on these days in academia. I've seen some college textbooks in the last few years, in fields like sociology and history, that contained some whopping lies. When I told one young woman that she should dispute some of the course material, she said that the professor was adament about these points, and that there was no room for debate - she would flunk if she didn't parrot the "party line".

I'm glad I went to college in the 1970s, when things were apparently less polarized or there was more opportunity for contradicting the teacher.
 
2012-09-26 11:00:47 AM

OgreMagi: simon_bar_sinister: On a side note, did anyone else notice the links to other articles below this one?
"How not to sound racist when talking about black studies" is it possible to not sound racist, even if you are black? I got a look at the required books for that course. (Did used books as a sideline for a couple of years.) That stuff is truly racist.
Aggressively point out what dead people did. Accuse contemporaries of same activities. The louder the better. Demand compensation.

From what I saw, every problem ever caused in the world was caused by the white man. If you look at the books from a woman studies class, every problem ever caused in the world was caused by men. I would not do well in either class since I have a habit of calling out bullshiat when I see it. Did that in my polisci class in college when the teacher stated something that was easily proven false. I almost failed because of that.


No surprise there. Its all the fault of EVIL WHITE MEN! Everything from the beginning of time. Unless its something good, then its women, minorities or sky wizards.
 
2012-09-26 12:37:54 PM

Aarontology: You can't blame television when a significant portion of the population things ignorance is something to be lauded and that education is inherently evil.


and I am hoping your misspelling is an attempt to be ironic in such a post about reading and writing

LOL
 
2012-09-27 02:21:03 AM
The juxtaposition of this headline with the three banner ads all running on replay and non-stop for the last three days about the new WoW expansion is the very definition of irony.
 
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