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(CNN)   Columnist says Nazi hunting is still a worthy pursuit, mostly because you can just go to a German graveyard, point at some random graves from the 1940s, yell "FOUND 'EM", and spend the rest of the day drinking   (cnn.com) divider line 260
    More: Interesting, Nazis, nazi war criminals, accessory to murder, passage  
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4435 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2012 at 6:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-25 10:06:32 PM

chuckufarlie: Once again you fail to understand the facts. I know what their motivation was. It is you that does not understand. At this point I am not surprised that you continue to be completely confused. I do hope that by the time you grow up, you will learn to think coherently.


Kick and scream and cling to that one link from a Japanese museum all you want. The generals and anyone with a basic working knowledge of military strategy say you're wrong.

Porous Horace: Israel is our rightful home and always shall be, and you can all go fark yourselves or come at me bro and take your best shot.


Your rightful home? Because you evict the people who live there with machine guns and bulldoze their homes? As far as history goes, Arabs were there first. Israel was founded by land theft and murder. It's not your rightful land in the slightest.
 
2012-09-25 10:22:19 PM

chuckufarlie: I know that you are not Jewish. I am thinking that you are an arab. Don't deny it, I could care less about what you have to



No, I'm no Arab, and have no particular affection for them or for the moose limbs.

www.myteespot.com

BTW, I notice that your shift key seems to malfunction when you type the word "arabs", but that it seems to work just fine when you type the word "Jews".

Maybe you should have that looked at?
 
2012-09-25 10:33:14 PM

tirob: Amos Quito:

what the Zionists needed to move those stubborn, stiff-necked high-falootin' European Jews OUT of their comfortable European lives


Your ignorance of the economic situation of the European Jews before 1939 is unparalleled. A *large* number of them, particularly in Poland, Lithuania, and Rumania, lived lives that were far from comfortable; they shivered with cold in the winter, had no plumbing or electricity, and in many cases were dependent economically on money sent from relatives elsewhere.



Um, it was the 1930's, not the 1990's. The world was in the throes of the great depression, and Poland (like many Eastern European countries) was hardly a bastion of economic stability or technological advancement. FYI, the non-Jewish Poles were doing no better, and IF you read history, you'll find that through the middle ages, the Jews of Poland fared FAR better on the whole than did their non-Jewish counterparts - Lords and Priest class excepted, of course).

Things were rough all over.

tirob: Hitler may have been bad news for Europe's Jews, but in the eyes of the Zionists, he was a godsend. Were it not for the Nazis (or some similar anti-Semitic tragedy) the Zionist State of Israel could NEVER have come into being.

The Zionists got plenty of help populating their state from other sources, too. Palestinians who have been displaced or otherwise persecuted during the last 65 years can thank governments in many an Arab country for throwing out their Jewish citizens and thus foisting them on Israel.



You didn't read the Martin Gilbert link yet, I see.


tirob: I will suggest that we could help out the Palestinians and weaken Israel by accepting some Jewish Israelis as immigrants to the US. How would you feel about that?


I have no problem with ANYONE moving here - PROVIDED that they do so through the proper channels, AND that they come not to rape, pillage, plunder and USE America for what they can get, but that they are intent on BEING AMERICANS.

Not Mexican Americans, not Arab Americans, not Jewish Americans, but HUMAN BEING Americans.

Enough with the ethnosupremacist racist claptrap. Humanity can no longer afford it. 

Have a pleasant evening.
 
2012-09-25 10:42:05 PM

Amos Quito:

And indeed Jews / Zionists were heavily involved in Bolshevik/Soviet Communism, international banking (Rothschilds) and "just about everything else".

Really? Zionists involved in Bolshevism? The kids and grandmothers murdered in Poland international bankers? And what I wrote was that the Nazis accused Jews of being Communists and international bankers *simultaneously.*

And I did not say that the (perceived) Zionist betrayal of the Germans with the Balfour Declaration / Treaty of Versailles was the cause of WWII, I said it "created much animosity between ethnic Germans and Jews, and set the stage for the conflict that would culminate in the Holocaust - meaning the inter-ethnic strife

Whichever way you slice it, you're way off base. The Balfour Declaration's effect on Jewish-German relations was infinitesimal; the evidence for that is that Hitler never mentioned it in Mein Kampf. As for the Treaty of Versailles, which you didn't mention earlier, I am unaware that Zionism is mentioned in it, or that Zionists had a hand in drawing it up. Perhaps you can enlighten me. It is true that Nazis (and many other nationally minded Germans) did blame Jews for the defeat of Germany in WWI; personally, I think they gave Jews too much credit and the French/British Commonwealth/US armies too little, but I will say that if Jews (and Zionists, for that matter) contributed, even in a small way, to the defeat of Kaiser Wilhelm, there's nothing wrong with that. For what would have happened if Germany had won that war, I recommend a book by Fritz Fischer called Germany's Aims in the First World War.

I know the history of the Haavara business, and yes, it was pretty sordid. I believe Hannah Arendt wrote that while Jews in the Western countries were trying to organize a boycott of Nazi Germany, Palestine was being flooded with goods "Made in Germany."
 
2012-09-25 10:52:49 PM

Amos Quito: tirob: Amos Quito:

what the Zionists needed to move those stubborn, stiff-necked high-falootin' European Jews OUT of their comfortable European lives


Your ignorance of the economic situation of the European Jews before 1939 is unparalleled. A *large* number of them, particularly in Poland, Lithuania, and Rumania, lived lives that were far from comfortable; they shivered with cold in the winter, had no plumbing or electricity, and in many cases were dependent economically on money sent from relatives elsewhere.


Um, it was the 1930's, not the 1990's. The world was in the throes of the great depression, and Poland (like many Eastern European countries) was hardly a bastion of economic stability or technological advancement. FYI, the non-Jewish Poles were doing no better, and IF you read history, you'll find that through the middle ages, the Jews of Poland fared FAR better on the whole than did their non-Jewish counterparts - Lords and Priest class excepted, of course).


No, the non-Jewish population of Poland wasn't any better off in most cases, but the poverty in Jewish Poland (and elsewhere in Jewish Eastern Europe) was chronic; it wasn't just a product of the 1930s.
 
2012-09-25 10:59:31 PM

Amos Quito: tirob:

The Zionists got plenty of help populating their state from other sources, too. Palestinians who have been displaced or otherwise persecuted during the last 65 years can thank governments in many an Arab country for throwing out their Jewish citizens and thus foisting them on Israel.

You didn't read the Martin Gilbert link yet, I see.


On the contrary. It's unresponsive to my point, though.
 
2012-09-25 11:03:09 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: Once again you fail to understand the facts. I know what their motivation was. It is you that does not understand. At this point I am not surprised that you continue to be completely confused. I do hope that by the time you grow up, you will learn to think coherently.

Kick and scream and cling to that one link from a Japanese museum all you want. The generals and anyone with a basic working knowledge of military strategy say you're wrong..


Gee, Junior, I shot down each and every one of your points. I explained to you what Hiroshima had not been attacked and I explained that wanting a city that was not damaged was a secondary reason.

You have the entire situation assbackwards. That is not a surprise to me. I suspect you live that way.

There is nothing in the selection of Hiroshima that had any value at the strategic level. I think that "strategy" is just another item that you know nothing about.

Why do you put so much stock in the fact that they wanted a city that was not damaged? What would be the point of bombing a city that was already at least partially destroyed?

I have to admit that I am having a good time pointing out all of your errors.

Tell me, Junior, are you being so pigheaded about this because I showed you how wrong you "ideas" are or are you just normally pigheaded?

In case you have not heard, Hiroshima was a legitimate military target.

At the time of its bombing, Hiroshima was a city of considerable industrial and military significance. Even some military camps were located nearby, such as the headquarters of the Fifth Division and Field Marshal Shunroku Hata's 2nd General Army Headquarters, which commanded the defense of all of southern Japan. Hiroshima was a minor supply and logistics base for the Japanese military. The city was a communications center, a storage point, and an assembly area for troops. It was one of several Japanese cities left deliberately untouched by American bombing, allowing an ideal environment to measure the damage caused by the atomic bomb. Another account stresses that after General Spaatz reported that Hiroshima was the only targeted city without POW-camps, Washington decided to assign it highest priority.

The above is from the official records. How does it feel to be so wrong all of the time?
 
2012-09-25 11:04:27 PM

tirob: Amos Quito: tirob:

The Zionists got plenty of help populating their state from other sources, too. Palestinians who have been displaced or otherwise persecuted during the last 65 years can thank governments in many an Arab country for throwing out their Jewish citizens and thus foisting them on Israel.

You didn't read the Martin Gilbert link yet, I see.

On the contrary. It's unresponsive to my point, though.


Be advised that if you exchange posts with this ??? for very long, you will need a very long and very hot shower. And regular soap is not going to be good enough.
 
2012-09-25 11:07:01 PM

Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: I know that you are not Jewish. I am thinking that you are an arab. Don't deny it, I could care less about what you have to


No, I'm no Arab, and have no particular affection for them or for the moose limbs.

[www.myteespot.com image 276x400]

BTW, I notice that your shift key seems to malfunction when you type the word "arabs", but that it seems to work just fine when you type the word "Jews".

Maybe you should have that looked at?


I already told you that I do not care what you response to that question is. I am very sure that I am correct in my thinking about your ethnicity. No affection for arabs? Maybe you should read your own posts, dumbass. My shift key works just fine. Only an arab would get upset about that.

And now your smelly arab ass goes back on ignore.
 
2012-09-25 11:36:44 PM

chuckufarlie: I explained to you what Hiroshima had not been attacked and I explained that wanting a city that was not damaged was a secondary reason.


Except your primary "reason", didn't come up even at 2/3rds of the way through the bombing campaign, and who knows how much longer it would be until your target would have continued to be deemed less important to bomb than other targets by the strategists. Hiroshima was a target of minor importance on the list of targets.

chuckufarlie: Why do you put so much stock in the fact that they wanted a city that was not damaged?


Really? Again?

^ Leslie Groves, Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project, 1962. In April 1945, General Groves was instructed to pick targets for the nuclear bombs. Page 267, "To enable us to assess accurately the effects of the bomb, the targets should not have been previously damaged by air raids." Four cities were chosen, including Hiroshima and Kyoto. War Secretary Stimson vetoed Kyoto, and Nagasaki was substituted. Page 275, "When our target cities were first selected, an order was sent to the Army Air Force in Guam not to bomb them without special authority from the War Department."

It truly amazes me that you're arguing against the statement of the very general who selected the target. You're either an idiot or completely delusional, I suspect some of each, but by all means, keep insisting that I'm the one on the losing end of this debate if it makes you sleep better. Goodnight.
 
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