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(CNN)   Columnist says Nazi hunting is still a worthy pursuit, mostly because you can just go to a German graveyard, point at some random graves from the 1940s, yell "FOUND 'EM", and spend the rest of the day drinking   (cnn.com) divider line 260
    More: Interesting, Nazis, nazi war criminals, accessory to murder, passage  
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4435 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2012 at 6:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-25 03:43:15 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: Hate to break it to you but you are wrong. Hiroshima was not an unimportant target. We bombed it to end the war.

Why do you lie so goddamn much?

^ Leslie Groves, Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project, 1962. In April 1945, General Groves was instructed to pick targets for the nuclear bombs. Page 267, "To enable us to assess accurately the effects of the bomb, the targets should not have been previously damaged by air raids." Four cities were chosen, including Hiroshima and Kyoto. War Secretary Stimson vetoed Kyoto, and Nagasaki was substituted. Page 275, "When our target cities were first selected, an order was sent to the Army Air Force in Guam not to bomb them without special authority from the War Department."

Where in any of that does it say that Hiroshima was not an important target?

How can you read that citation and conclude that from the beginning, Hiroshima, a city on the water and fully accessible to bombers, yet was never bombed prior to its selection could have been strategically important? Look, I'd love to walk you through the very basic logic, but I think I'd be wasting my time.


That is what I thought you were getting at. Your logic is bad. When the order went out not to bomb Hiroshima and the other cities on the exclusion list, the bombing campaign against Japanese cities had just started in earnest. There were lots of cities in Japan at that time that had not been bombed.

Did you even look at the quote that I gave you from the Hiroshima museum?
 
2012-09-25 03:47:26 PM

Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: I will keep in mind that anything you is going to be biased by your hatred and racism.


Before we go on, again I ask: my "hatred and "racism" against WHO? Which "race" do you suppose that I favor/hate?

Out with it, General D.!

You need proof of your own racism?


No, you need to prove you allegations.

You fail, General D.


chuckufarlie: It's DRAMA TIME!

Who smashed a baby's head against a wall? All Nazi SS men? Was it a duty, or a privilege?

I would think that somebody with your level of racism would have read everything possible about the atrocities committed by the Germans.

No, not ALL SS. You would probably consider it a privilege. The rest of the sane world consider it a crime.


I was asking for the ORIGIN of this tale, for credible evidence that such things actually took place.

I'll do a Google search...

Ah! Found it!

QUOTE:

he who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks.

New Living Translation (©2007)
Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!

English Standard Version (©2001)
Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
How blessed will be the one who seizes and dashes your little ones Against the rock.

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.

Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
Blessed is he who will seize your infants and will dash the rocks!

GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Blessed is the one who grabs your little children and smashes them against a rock.

King James 2000 Bible (©2003)
Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes your little ones against the stones.

American King James Version
Happy shall he be, that takes and dashes your little ones against the stones.

American Standard Version
Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones Against the rock.

Douay-Rheims Bible
Blessed be he that shal ...


And you want people to believe that you are not anti-Semitic? How incredibly stupid you are. You direct all of your hatred and stupidity against the Jewish people. You try to hide behind a thin veil to give yourself deniability. That means that not only are you a liar, but you are a coward as well. Those are not exactly admirable qualities. More like despicable.
 
2012-09-25 03:50:06 PM
Hey hey hey hey, waitasec - it's not the Jews, it's the Zionists!

/apropos of nothing
 
2012-09-25 04:00:57 PM
chuckufarlie

Not trying to tell you your business, but he asked you for a source regarding your claim of Germans bashing baby heads. You just called him a racist. He then pointed out where Jews talk about bashing baby heads...and you just call him a racist.

He's either really getting you worked up or you're not all there.
 
2012-09-25 04:01:34 PM

chuckufarlie: I do not pay attention to any of your hateful, racist lies.



That's not much of a trick, especially seeing that I post on lies, hateful, racist or otherwise.

chuckufarlie: I have posted no bullshiat. I have revealed yours.



When you wrote "I am sure that you do not see the difference between a legitimate military target and bashing a baby's head against a wall." above you were clearly IMPLYING that this was a common practice of the Nazis, the SS (or whoever).

I asked for a credible source - you failed to provide. I then found what is likely to be the origin of such rumors: A vindictive fantasy in Psalms.

You have repeatedly called me a "racist", I asked for evidence of alleged "racism", you failed.

Guys like you seem to rely on the BIG LIE technique: Keep repeating an absurd, unfounded allegation over and over and over, and hope that the readers are STOOPID enough that they will take your repetition of said lies as "evidence"

Zat how it works, chuckufarlie?


/You fail
 
2012-09-25 04:15:28 PM

Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: I do not pay attention to any of your hateful, racist lies.


That's not much of a trick, especially seeing that I post on lies, hateful, racist or otherwise.chuckufarlie: I have posted no bullshiat. I have revealed yours.


When you wrote "I am sure that you do not see the difference between a legitimate military target and bashing a baby's head against a wall." above you were clearly IMPLYING that this was a common practice of the Nazis, the SS (or whoever).

I asked for a credible source - you failed to provide. I then found what is likely to be the origin of such rumors: A vindictive fantasy in Psalms.

You have repeatedly called me a "racist", I asked for evidence of alleged "racism", you failed.

Guys like you seem to rely on the BIG LIE technique: Keep repeating an absurd, unfounded allegation over and over and over, and hope that the readers are STOOPID enough that they will take your repetition of said lies as "evidence"

Zat how it works, chuckufarlie?


/You fail


No sane, rational person would believe that I implied anything about killing babies was a common practice. I did not bother to provide any sources because the babies killed in this manner were Jewish and the witnesses left behind were also Jewish. There is no way that you are going to accept the word of a Jew over your wonderful SS officers.

The evidence of your racism, hatred and anti-semitism are all over all of your posts. Why you would ask me to prove something about you that you already know is beyond me. Anybody who reads your posts will recognize it as much as I have. I am not the first person in this thread to call you on this.

The only question remaining is why you try to deny it? I can only assume that you are a coward, along with all of your other problems. Are you ashamed of yourself? Do you think that there are still people who do not realize your anti-Semitic position? Is that why you hide behind a thin veil of deniability?

No, it is obvious that everybody sees you for what you are. The reason you deny it is because you are a sniveling coward. How sad that a person is cowardly on the internet. Nobody can reach you physically. That is a level of cowardice that is hard to believe.
 
2012-09-25 04:20:53 PM

Facetious_Speciest: chuckufarlie

Not trying to tell you your business, but he asked you for a source regarding your claim of Germans bashing baby heads. You just called him a racist. He then pointed out where Jews talk about bashing baby heads...and you just call him a racist.

He's either really getting you worked up or you're not all there.


Yea, he quoted a 2000 year old document. Things have changed in 2000 years. There are many accounts of Germans killing babies during WWII. I am not going to spend my time providing a list of the books that talk about it.

The man is a racist. I realized that a long time ago and that is why I put him on my ignore list. He is about to go back on it.
 
2012-09-25 04:33:35 PM

Facetious_Speciest: chuckufarlie

Not trying to tell you your business, but he asked you for a source regarding your claim of Germans bashing baby heads. You just called him a racist. He then pointed out where Jews talk about bashing baby heads...and you just call him a racist.

He's either really getting you worked up or you're not all there.


I have encountered anti-Semites before. He is not the first. There are certain things that these types say that reveals the truth. Notice his use of the word HolocaustTM. That is a common occurrence with anti-Semites. All of the clues are there. He is just too cowardly to admit it.

Look at some of his posts here:


Well, for one thing, the Victim State could open up to receiving Syrian refugees fleeing the slaughter. I mean, guys like the subject of TFA weep and gnash their teeth incessantly that the HolocaustTM victims were REFUSED entry to other countries, and were forced to suffer horrors under the Nazis.

But Israel is NOT going to allow Syrian refugees in, are they?

I guess the memory of the residents of the Victim State is selective, and SOME people are more equal than others.



talking about the people of Israel, he posted:
It's all about spiteful vengeance.

Once these bastards sink their teeth in, they NEVER let go. Guilt or innocence of an individual is irrelevant. They're getting their kicks by making SOMEONE suffer for their COLLECTIVE suffering.

You misunderstand the motives of these hound-dogs.

Their key goal is to keep the HolocaustTM front-and-center in the eyes of the world, to remind us incessantly that it was THE worst atrocity EVER committed by ANYONE EVER - and not just because of what was done, but because of WHO it was done to.

The timing of this particular article was precious - what with the United Nations currently in session, Obama speaking today, Ahmadinejad speaking yesterday AND tomorrow - the unwashed gentiles NEED to be reminded who the perpetual Victims are, and that they suffered.

Oh how they suffered!

Forget what the Victim State has been doing to those it ruthlessly occupies and oppresses today. Forget that the Victim State has been working for 20 years to try to con the West into attacking Iran, and is constantly threatening to do so unilaterally.

No, the pseudo-religious dogma of the HolocaustTM MUST be constantly drilled into the psyche, so that they can continue to occupy, oppress, threaten, and expand with impunity.

Only a Nazi would dare call them on their hypocrisy.


He admits that he is a Nazi because he calls them out on their supposed hypocrisy.
 
2012-09-25 04:34:51 PM
"... where Jews talk about bashing baby heads"

That's a rather disingenous way of putting it.
 
2012-09-25 04:36:01 PM

chuckufarlie: That is what I thought you were getting at. Your logic is bad. When the order went out not to bomb Hiroshima and the other cities on the exclusion list, the bombing campaign against Japanese cities had just started in earnest.


^ Leslie Groves, Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project, 1962. In April 1945, General Groves was instructed to pick targets for the nuclear bombs.

Little boy was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, only 4 months later

U.S. strategic bombing of the Japanese Empire began in earnest in October 1944 Link

7 months of heavy bombing (never mind initial bombing starting in 1942) and it "just started"?

STOP LYING.
 
2012-09-25 04:41:38 PM

Amos Quito: casual disregard: Tat'dGreaser: casual disregard: We said never again. And then we almost immediately turned our backs and let it happen again. And again. And again.

Cambodia. Darfur. Syria. Somalia. Etc.

Perhaps what we meant was "never again will we lift one finger against outrageous atrocities."

Question, how do you think we should have stopped those from happening?

For all our comforts and our freedoms, we do nothing while people die. If I had a good idea to help the people of Syria, I would tell you. I wish I knew what to do. That will not stop me from hating murderers.


Well, for one thing, the Victim State could open up to receiving Syrian refugees fleeing the slaughter. I mean, guys like the subject of TFA weep and gnash their teeth incessantly that the HolocaustTM victims were REFUSED entry to other countries, and were forced to suffer horrors under the Nazis.

But Israel is NOT going to allow Syrian refugees in, are they?

I guess the memory of the residents of the Victim State is selective, and SOME people are more equal than others.


Have you been lobbying your congressman to let Syrian refugees into the United States?

Holocaust Agnostic: asmodeus224: dragonchild: Except the Nazis never won the legislature (Reichstag); they got their majority by physically removing the Communists. They never ran the country with popular approval; more than half of Germany was intimidated into silence. If you point to a random grave from the 1940s, you don't even have a coin's chances of being right.

Yea, the Nazis were very unpopular in German circa 1937...they only held power because of pure intimidation, which is why when they got the chance as the war fell apart, they rose up and overthrew Hitler.

Or not

/to be sure, there weren't any Nazis left in 1946, it's funny how they all just vanished, just like that

So, in 44 when the the wheels were coming off, the allies had demanded unconditional surrender and were howling about dismantling the German state forever, and the Russians were on the way, quite possibly to kill everyone, you would be trying to start a civil war?


The idea of leaving the Western front open to the Allies so that they would overrun Germany before the Russians got there was bruited here and there in the Wehrmacht after D-Day; I once read that Helmut Schmidt, later Prime Minister and at the time a junior officer, suggested it to his buddies. Just a reminder in this context that in late 1944, Hitler committed the last of his reserves to an offensive in Belgium rather than use them to try to keep the Russians out of Germany.
 
2012-09-25 04:52:23 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: That is what I thought you were getting at. Your logic is bad. When the order went out not to bomb Hiroshima and the other cities on the exclusion list, the bombing campaign against Japanese cities had just started in earnest.

^ Leslie Groves, Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project, 1962. In April 1945, General Groves was instructed to pick targets for the nuclear bombs.

Little boy was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, only 4 months later

U.S. strategic bombing of the Japanese Empire began in earnest in October 1944 Link

7 months of heavy bombing (never mind initial bombing starting in 1942) and it "just started"?

STOP LYING.


Yes, the bombing started in October of 1944. But it started out slowly. The initial raids from the Marianas were small. They targeted industry, as they had done in Europe. Even as the number of bombers increased, the targets were still industrial. But because of the jet stream over Japan, precision bombing of factories was not working. It was not until they switched to fire bombing raids that targeted cities that they started to see results. And the first firebombing raid was against Tokyo on 9 March, 1945. That list of cities to avoid came out within thirty days. Link I stand by my original statement.

You have repeatedly accused me of lying but in fact, the real situation is that you have very little knowledge of the subject.

If you have any maturity at all, I would expect you to apologize for calling me a liar.
 
2012-09-25 04:53:54 PM

Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: So, had the Nazis won, who would they be hunting today?

And would you be "okay" with that?

They would have had a very short list. Since the western Allies did not commit crimes on the scale of those committed by the Nazis, they would have very few people to go after.


At least not in the sanitized versions of events. I guess you never heard of the atrocities committed by "the allies" especially (but by no means exclusively) the Soviets both during AND after the war?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soviet_war_crimes

But we know whose version of "history" most of us are spoonfed, don't we?


The Communists' version?

Yes, the Soviets did all of those things. But the German occupation of Russia--or at the time, the USSR--wasn't a picnic in the park for those affected, either. I can't help thinking that the Germans could have spared themselves most of those Soviet rapes and other atrocities if their occupying forces had kept their own trousers on, and their guns holstered, during the three years they graced the western USSR with their presence. Read Alexander Werth or Alexander Dallin if the gory details interest you.
 
2012-09-25 05:07:09 PM

chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: That is what I thought you were getting at. Your logic is bad. When the order went out not to bomb Hiroshima and the other cities on the exclusion list, the bombing campaign against Japanese cities had just started in earnest.

^ Leslie Groves, Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project, 1962. In April 1945, General Groves was instructed to pick targets for the nuclear bombs.

Little boy was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, only 4 months later

U.S. strategic bombing of the Japanese Empire began in earnest in October 1944 Link

7 months of heavy bombing (never mind initial bombing starting in 1942) and it "just started"?

STOP LYING.

Yes, the bombing started in October of 1944. But it started out slowly. The initial raids from the Marianas were small. They targeted industry, as they had done in Europe. Even as the number of bombers increased, the targets were still industrial. But because of the jet stream over Japan, precision bombing of factories was not working. It was not until they switched to fire bombing raids that targeted cities that they started to see results. And the first firebombing raid was against Tokyo on 9 March, 1945. That list of cities to avoid came out within thirty days. Link I stand by my original statement.

You have repeatedly accused me of lying but in fact, the real situation is that you have very little knowledge of the subject.

If you have any maturity at all, I would expect you to apologize for calling me a liar.


You've thoroughly destroyed your credibility, and despite your effort to double down, I think most people can see it clearly. I call a spade a spade, and I stand by my statement pertaining to your character, as well as my quoted sources pertaining to your "facts".
 
2012-09-25 05:15:21 PM

chuckufarlie: Facetious_Speciest: chuckufarlie

Not trying to tell you your business, but he asked you for a source regarding your claim of Germans bashing baby heads. You just called him a racist. He then pointed out where Jews talk about bashing baby heads...and you just call him a racist.

He's either really getting you worked up or you're not all there.

I have encountered anti-Semites before. He is not the first. There are certain things that these types say that reveals the truth. Notice his use of the word HolocaustTM. That is a common occurrence with anti-Semites. All of the clues are there. He is just too cowardly to admit it.

Look at some of his posts here:


Well, for one thing, the Victim State could open up to receiving Syrian refugees fleeing the slaughter. I mean, guys like the subject of TFA weep and gnash their teeth incessantly that the HolocaustTM victims were REFUSED entry to other countries, and were forced to suffer horrors under the Nazis.

But Israel is NOT going to allow Syrian refugees in, are they?

I guess the memory of the residents of the Victim State is selective, and SOME people are more equal than others.



Ahem:

The word "Holocaust" is Greek, and literally means "burnt whole", usually referring to a religious sacrifice. The term was used in reference to genocide by several writers (including Winston Churchill) as early as 1922 to describe the Armenian Genocide, and this was long before anyone had heard of Hitler or the Nazis. Thanks to decades of endless promotion, it is now considered an insult - even a sacrilege to use the term Holocaust in reference to anything OTHER than the slaughter (of Jews) by the Nazis. Hence the well-deserved TM.

Next: Is Syria experiencing extreme civil upheaval? Are there countless Syrians whose lives are in danger, and who are seeking refuge from the chaos? Is Israel - "The Victim State" - a political entity largely FOUNDED by desperate refugees who had "no place to go" accepting these desperate people?

No???

Pretty damned callous AND hypocritical, especially considering that the Israelis CONTINUE to whine to this very day about how they were turned away back in WWII - don't you think??? Would they accept them if they were NOT Gentiles?

(Serious question)

You call me a "racist" because I call out Zionists and berate them because of their ethocentric supremacism. You call me an anti-Semite, I think you are a Zionist and a Semitist (2) - because you prefer these, give them a free pass, believe that they are above and should be immune to criticism because of WHO they are.

But the fact is that Zionism was a racist, ethnocentric supremacist scheme since the plot was first hatched by Herzl back in the late 1800's - a plot that simmered, steamed and boiled for a full 40 years before the beginning of WWII.

Zionism began as a racist, bigoted, supremacist ideology, and it continues to be a racist, bigoted, supremacist ideology to this day. It has created nothing but suffering and misery for Jew and Gentile alike since it was conceived.

And you call ME a racist because I have the NERVE to criticize this creature?

LOL!
 
2012-09-25 05:19:54 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: That is what I thought you were getting at. Your logic is bad. When the order went out not to bomb Hiroshima and the other cities on the exclusion list, the bombing campaign against Japanese cities had just started in earnest.

^ Leslie Groves, Now it Can be Told: The Story of the Manhattan Project, 1962. In April 1945, General Groves was instructed to pick targets for the nuclear bombs.

Little boy was dropped on Hiroshima on August 6, 1945, only 4 months later

U.S. strategic bombing of the Japanese Empire began in earnest in October 1944 Link

7 months of heavy bombing (never mind initial bombing starting in 1942) and it "just started"?

STOP LYING.

Yes, the bombing started in October of 1944. But it started out slowly. The initial raids from the Marianas were small. They targeted industry, as they had done in Europe. Even as the number of bombers increased, the targets were still industrial. But because of the jet stream over Japan, precision bombing of factories was not working. It was not until they switched to fire bombing raids that targeted cities that they started to see results. And the first firebombing raid was against Tokyo on 9 March, 1945. That list of cities to avoid came out within thirty days. Link I stand by my original statement.

You have repeatedly accused me of lying but in fact, the real situation is that you have very little knowledge of the subject.

If you have any maturity at all, I would expect you to apologize for calling me a liar.

You've thoroughly destroyed your credibility, and despite your effort to double down, I think most people can see it clearly. I call a spade a spade, and I stand by my statement pertaining to your character, as well as my quoted sources pertaining to your "facts".


You truly know nothing about the bombing campaign against Japan. You need to look into what I posted for you. The actual destruction of Japanese cities did not start until they started firebombing and that started in March 1945.

Think about it Einstein. The convention (high explosive) bombing of Japanese industry would not have destroyed cities. It was not until they realized that this campaign was not working that they started fire bombing cities.

What, in your opinion, would be more destructive to cities:

a. bombing factories.
b. firebombing cities.

I provided you with a link that shows that everything I posted is fact. Obviously, you did not read any of it, You would rather wallow in ignorance than learn the truth.
 
2012-09-25 05:25:30 PM

Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: Facetious_Speciest: chuckufarlie

Ahem:

The word "Holocaust" is Greek, and literally means "burnt whole", usually referring to a religious sacrifice. The term was used in reference to genocide by several writers (including Winston Churchill) as early as 1922 to describe the Armenian Genocide, and this was long before anyone had heard of Hitler or the Nazis. Thanks to decades of endless promotion, it is now considered an insult - even a sacrilege to use the term Holocaust in reference to anything OTHER than the slaughter (of Jews) by the Nazis. Hence the well-deserved TM.

Next: Is Syria experiencing extreme civil upheaval? Are there countless Syrians whose lives are in danger, and who are seeking refuge from the chaos? Is Israel - "The Victim State" - a political entity largely FOUNDED by desperate refugees who had "no place to go" accepting these desperate people?

No???

Pretty damned callous AND hypocritical, especially considering that the Israelis CONTINUE to whine to this very day about how they were turned away back in WWII - don't you think??? Would they accept them if they were NOT Gentiles?

(Serious question)

You call me a "racist" because I call out Zionists and berate them because of their ethocentric supremacism. You call me an anti-Semite, I think you are a Zionist and a Semitist (2) - because you prefer these, give them a free pass, believe that they are above and should be immune to criticism because of WHO they are.

But the fact is that Zionism was a racist, ethnocentric supremacist scheme since the plot was first hatched by Herzl back in the late 1800's - a plot that simmered, steamed and boiled for a full 40 years before the beginning of WWII.

Zionism began as a racist, bigoted, supremacist ideology, and it continues to be a racist, bigoted, supremacist ideology to this day. It has created nothing but suffering and misery for Jew and Gentile alike since it was conceived.

And you call ME a racist because I have the NERVE to criticize this creature?.


I do not consider calling somebody a Zionist to be an insult.

I do thank you for finally revealing your true self. You are such a racist that you do not even realize it. You are so full of hate that you cannot even see the truth of your own feelings.

Yes, I do call you a racist. I call you anti-Jewish.

tell me, what is your ethnicity?
 
2012-09-25 05:48:05 PM

chuckufarlie: You truly know nothing about the bombing campaign against Japan. You need to look into what I posted for you. The actual destruction of Japanese cities did not start until they started firebombing and that started in March 1945.

Think about it Einstein. The convention (high explosive) bombing of Japanese industry would not have destroyed cities. It was not until they realized that this campaign was not working that they started fire bombing cities.

What, in your opinion, would be more destructive to cities:

a. bombing factories.
b. firebombing cities.

I provided you with a link that shows that everything I posted is fact. Obviously, you did not read any of it, You would rather wallow in ignorance than learn the truth.


The type of bombs used is completely irrelevant to the point. The critical point was that it was not bombed at all.

Hiroshima had not been touched at all for nearly the first 2/3 of heavy bombing prior to the order restricting such bombing. Your defense for Hiroshima not being bombed was justified by this "When the order went out not to bomb Hiroshima and the other cities on the exclusion list, the bombing campaign against Japanese cities had just started in earnest" How can you claim that 2/3 of the way through the "earnest" bombing, it had "just started"? Not only that, it was as yet completely untouched. Still in your opinion, contrary to all fact and reason, this is an important military target? You cannot squirm your way out of the fact that we used Hiroshima as a weapons testing experiment. It's an ugly fact, but a fact nonetheless.
 
2012-09-25 05:59:36 PM

chuckufarlie: I do not consider calling somebody a Zionist to be an insult.


Well, as Political Zionism - the scheme to carve a "homeland" for Jews out of the midst of Palestine (which was then under the control of the Ottoman Empire) is, by definition, a racist ideology (using YOUR definition of "race"), I would have to say that you, sir, are a "racist".

Please bear in mind that the Zionist plot preceded the HolocaustTM by some 40 years, that Herzl offered to pay the NATIONAL DEBT [!] of the Ottomans if they would allow the place to be flooded with European Jews (rejected), and that the Balfour Declaration was a quid pro quo in which Britain promised Rothschild (Zionist leader) a chunk of Palestine IN EXCHANGE for the support of the Zionists - 20 years BEFORE WWII began - a move which altered the course of WWI in favor of the Allies.

The Germans noticed, and felt betrayed. It pissed them off. This created much animosity between ethnic Germans and Jews, and set the stage for the conflict that would culminate in the Holocaust.

But you don't consider calling someone a "Zionist" an insult? I can only conclude that you are either ignorant of the history, or an extreme hypocrite.


chuckufarlie: I do thank you for finally revealing your true self. You are such a racist that you do not even realize it. You are so full of hate that you cannot even see the truth of your own feelings.



MIRROR.


chuckufarlie: Yes, I do call you a racist. I call you anti-Jewish.



That is only because in your ignorance, you have conflated Zionism with Judaism, and assume that if one is ethnically Jewish, he is naturally a Zionist. This is NOT the case. But if it is any consolation, you can take comfort in knowing that your ignorance is commonplace.

Did you know that, prior to WWII, the vast majority of Jews wanted NO PART of the Zionist scheme? It was a BAD IDEA, and they knew it.

And the history of the Middle East since the founding of the Zionist State has proved that they were right. Zionism has brought nothing but misery and suffering to all.

chuckufarlie: tell me, what is your ethnicity?


Is it relevant? You think it is, so it must be, right?

First, I'm a human being.

Second, I'm an American.

As to my ethnicity, I am what you would call "white": European - Scottish - Irish - English with a touch of Norman French. Not a drop of German blood in the family tree, to my knowledge. My ancestors have been in America since the mid 1600's (dad's side) and since the mid 1800's (mom's side). I have been happily married to a Hispanic woman from South America for 28 years. Yes, we have amazing kids and wonderful grandkids, and no, they are not taught that racism is cool as long as you are of the "right ethnicity".

Now it's your turn, Mr. Racist: What is YOUR ethnicity?
 
2012-09-25 06:03:22 PM

chuckufarlie: I do not consider calling somebody a Zionist to be an insult.


If someone wanted to make a state that was comprised of and ruled by [insert race here], they'd be called racist. I don't see why Zionism should be an exception. The concept has no place in the modern era.

I'm sure I'll be branded a racist for pointing this out though.
 
2012-09-25 06:04:37 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: You truly know nothing about the bombing campaign against Japan. You need to look into what I posted for you. The actual destruction of Japanese cities did not start until they started firebombing and that started in March 1945.

Think about it Einstein. The convention (high explosive) bombing of Japanese industry would not have destroyed cities. It was not until they realized that this campaign was not working that they started fire bombing cities.

What, in your opinion, would be more destructive to cities:

a. bombing factories.
b. firebombing cities.

I provided you with a link that shows that everything I posted is fact. Obviously, you did not read any of it, You would rather wallow in ignorance than learn the truth.

The type of bombs used is completely irrelevant to the point. The critical point was that it was not bombed at all.

Hiroshima had not been touched at all for nearly the first 2/3 of heavy bombing prior to the order restricting such bombing. Your defense for Hiroshima not being bombed was justified by this "When the order went out not to bomb Hiroshima and the other cities on the exclusion list, the bombing campaign against Japanese cities had just started in earnest" How can you claim that 2/3 of the way through the "earnest" bombing, it had "just started"? Not only that, it was as yet completely untouched. Still in your opinion, contrary to all fact and reason, this is an important military target? You cannot squirm your way out of the fact that we used Hiroshima as a weapons testing experiment. It's an ugly fact, but a fact nonetheless.


The initial bombing campaign was not aimed at the destruction of cities. It was aimed at the destruction of factories. There was obviously damage to cities in this but it did not destroy them. The cities of Japan were still pretty much intact during the campaign to attack industrial targets. The strong jet stream over Japan made precision bombing next to impossible and there was talk of ending it. LeMay came up with the idea of firebombing the cities. He had most of the machine guns removed from the planes and they bombed at night. The planes carried bombs designed to set the cities on fire.

It was not until they started firebombing the cities that they destroyed an of them.


There is a difference between the starting of the bombing campaign against industry and the beginning of the campaign to destroy cities. Your post provided the beginning of the campaign against industrial targets. That campaign did not destroy cities. The campaign to destroy cities began in March of 1945.

check out this Link. It is all explained there.
 
2012-09-25 06:06:35 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: I do not consider calling somebody a Zionist to be an insult.

If someone wanted to make a state that was comprised of and ruled by [insert race here], they'd be called racist. I don't see why Zionism should be an exception. The concept has no place in the modern era.

I'm sure I'll be branded a racist for pointing this out though.



We have to make an exception for one very exceptional people.

Right?

;-)
 
2012-09-25 06:09:19 PM
People like AQ are more responsible for the existence of Israel than Theodore Hertzl. Discuss.
 
2012-09-25 06:12:15 PM

Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: I do not consider calling somebody a Zionist to be an insult.

Well, as Political Zionism - the scheme to carve a "homeland" for Jews out of the midst of Palestine (which was then under the control of the Ottoman Empire) is, by definition, a racist ideology (using YOUR definition of "race"), I would have to say that you, sir, are a "racist".

Please bear in mind that the Zionist plot preceded the HolocaustTM by some 40 years, that Herzl offered to pay the NATIONAL DEBT [!] of the Ottomans if they would allow the place to be flooded with European Jews (rejected), and that the Balfour Declaration was a quid pro quo in which Britain promised Rothschild (Zionist leader) a chunk of Palestine IN EXCHANGE for the support of the Zionists - 20 years BEFORE WWII began - a move which altered the course of WWI in favor of the Allies.

The Germans noticed, and felt betrayed. It pissed them off. This created much animosity between ethnic Germans and Jews, and set the stage for the conflict that would culminate in the Holocaust.

But you don't consider calling someone a "Zionist" an insult? I can only conclude that you are either ignorant of the history, or an extreme hypocrite.


chuckufarlie: I do thank you for finally revealing your true self. You are such a racist that you do not even realize it. You are so full of hate that you cannot even see the truth of your own feelings.


MIRROR.


chuckufarlie: Yes, I do call you a racist. I call you anti-Jewish.


That is only because in your ignorance, you have conflated Zionism with Judaism, and assume that if one is ethnically Jewish, he is naturally a Zionist. This is NOT the case. But if it is any consolation, you can take comfort in knowing that your ignorance is commonplace.

Did you know that, prior to WWII, the vast majority of Jews wanted NO PART of the Zionist scheme? It was a BAD IDEA, and they knew it.

And the history of the Middle East since the founding of the Zionist State has proved that they were right. ...


Your premise that zionism was racist is another complete fabrication. The Jews who moved to Palestine lived in the midst of the arabs. They were not trying to remove them from the area. That is not racist. Even with the UN set up the country of Israel, it was on the basis that the Jews and the arabs would share the area. The arabs decided that they did not want to share the land so they attacked and started the first of many wars instigated to remove the Jews. The arabs were just never organized enough or well trained enough to accomplish that goal.

Yes, many Jews thought that it was a bad idea to move to Palestine. Why not? They were happy where they were. Their families, friends and livelihood were all in Europe. They saw no reason to pick up and move.

Then your hero Hitler came along and at the end of the war, the surviving Jews realized that having their own place to live so that anti-Semites like you would have a harder time getting to them.

Why does how these people felt before WWII have anything to do with this?

Once again, what is your ethnicity?
 
2012-09-25 06:17:09 PM

Porous Horace: People like AQ are more responsible for the existence of Israel than Theodore Hertzl. Discuss.


yes, you are completely correct. People like AQ, people who were anti-Semitic, are very much responsible for the existence of Israel. Prior to WWII, most Jews did not want to move to Palestine. They were happy where they were. It was not until the Holocaust that the survivors realized that having a country of their own would be a really good idea.

Add to that the fact that the property of the Jews in Europe had been taken away from them and most of it was then destroyed in the war. They had no home to go back to. Going to Palestine must have looked like going to a paradise.
 
2012-09-25 06:19:06 PM

chuckufarlie: The initial bombing campaign was not aimed at the destruction of cities....


This doesn't negate my point, it's an irrelevant tangent. Even still, a tangent that agrees with my statement that Hiroshima wasn't an important military target.

Somehow this seems to suit you.
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-09-25 06:35:12 PM

Porous Horace: People like AQ are more responsible for the existence of Israel than Theodore Hertzl. Discuss.


I am not and never have been an admirer of Theodor Herzl, Israel, or Zionism, but if anyone here could ever make me sympathize with any or all of them, he'd be the man.

Amos Quito: the Balfour Declaration was a quid pro quo in which Britain promised Rothschild (Zionist leader) a chunk of Palestine IN EXCHANGE for the support of the Zionists - 20 years BEFORE WWII began - a move which altered the course of WWI in favor of the Allies.

The Germans noticed, and felt betrayed. It pissed them off. This created much animosity between ethnic Germans and Jews, and set the stage for the conflict that would culminate in the Holocaust.


Nonsense like this doesn't help matters. The Nazis and their predecessors seldom mentioned Zionism in their anti-Jewish diatribes (I believe that Hitler mentioned Zionism in Mein Kampf just once), although they frequently accused Jews of simultaneously being Communists, Social Democrats, international bankers, and practically everything else. Zionism was legal in the Reich until the end of 1938. 

The Germans started WWII because they reckoned that they could achieve hegemony in Europe, not because they were pissed off at Zionists.
 
2012-09-25 06:46:46 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: The initial bombing campaign was not aimed at the destruction of cities....

This doesn't negate my point, it's an irrelevant tangent. Even still, a tangent that agrees with my statement that Hiroshima wasn't an important military target.

Somehow this seems to suit you.
[i47.tinypic.com image 385x458]


wow, I cannot believe how obtuse you are. It is a very important tangent. The actual destruction of Japanese cities did not begin until March, 1945. Until March of 1945, not one Japanese city had been destroyed. The fact that Hiroshima had not been attacked prior to April of 1945 does not mean that it was not a valuable military target.

Seriously, I gave you a quote from the Japanese Museum in Hiroshima that stated that the city was an important military target. What more do need?


Your premise is that Hiroshima was not an important target because it had not been attacked prior to April of 1945. I have provided you with the reason why this was the case. In fact, by April of 1945, only one or two cities had been destroyed.

Did you even go to the link I gave you?
 
2012-09-25 06:50:01 PM

tirob: Porous Horace: People like AQ are more responsible for the existence of Israel than Theodore Hertzl. Discuss.

I am not and never have been an admirer of Theodor Herzl, Israel, or Zionism, but if anyone here could ever make me sympathize with any or all of them, he'd be the man.

Amos Quito: the Balfour Declaration was a quid pro quo in which Britain promised Rothschild (Zionist leader) a chunk of Palestine IN EXCHANGE for the support of the Zionists - 20 years BEFORE WWII began - a move which altered the course of WWI in favor of the Allies.

The Germans noticed, and felt betrayed. It pissed them off. This created much animosity between ethnic Germans and Jews, and set the stage for the conflict that would culminate in the Holocaust.


Nonsense like this doesn't help matters. The Nazis and their predecessors seldom mentioned Zionism in their anti-Jewish diatribes (I believe that Hitler mentioned Zionism in Mein Kampf just once), although they frequently accused Jews of simultaneously being Communists, Social Democrats, international bankers, and practically everything else. Zionism was legal in the Reich until the end of 1938. 

The Germans started WWII because they reckoned that they could achieve hegemony in Europe, not because they were pissed off at Zionists.


AQ, the ultimate moron seems to overlook the fact that Hitler and his buddies would have been happy if every Jew in Europe had moved to Palestine. Until the war started, he wanted to send the Jews of Germany to some other country. Once he took over France, that place became Madagascar. It was not until he could not get them out of Europe that the wholesale murder started.
 
2012-09-25 06:54:14 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: ]


The fire raids on Japan started in 1945. The fire raids were ordered by General Curtis LeMay, who some see as the 'Bomber Harris' of the Pacific War, in response to the difficulty B-29 crews had in completing pinpoint strategic bombing over Japanese cities. LeMay, therefore, decided that blanket bombing raids on cities to undermine the morale of civilians were an appropriate response. After the attack on Pearl Harbour in December 1941 (referred to as "unprovoked and dastardly" by President Roosevelt), no-one was willing to speak out on behalf of the Japanese citizens.

On November 1st, 1944, a B-29 Superfortress flew over Tokyo for the first time in what was a propaganda victory flight as opposed to anything else. The B-29 was designed to carry a 20,000 lb bomb load for a distance of 5000 miles. It was designed for long flights and the crew had pressurised compartments to give them a degree of comfort on these flights. Based in the Marianas and China, the B-29 groups were under the direct command of General H Arnold and the Joint Chief-of-Staff in Washington DC.

The difficulty of strategic bombing had been seen on June 15th, 1944, when a raid on Yawata's iron and steel works resulted in just 2% of the complex being damaged. On August 20th, a raid on the same plant led to 18 bombers being shot down out of 70 planes - an attrition rate of 25%. The target was barely touched. Such losses for so little reward convinced many crews that strategic bombing was untenable.

The first bombing raid against Tokyo occurred on November 24th. The city was 1,500 miles from the Marianas. Brigadier-General Emmett O'Donnell flying the 'Dauntless Dotty' led 111 B-29's against the Musashima engine factory. The planes dropped their bombs from 30,000 feet and came across the first of a number of problems - accuracy. The B-29's were fitted with an excellent bomb aimer - the Norden - but it could not make out its target through low cloud. Also flying at 30,000 feet meant that the planes frequently flew in a jet stream wind that was between 100 and 200 mph which further complicated bomb aiming. Of the 111 planes on the raid, only 24 found the target.

In January 1945, Curtis LeMay flew to the Marianas to take control of 21st Bomber Command. The 20th Bomber Command, which had been based in India and China, was also transferred to the Marianas and LeMay was given command of this as well. Both units became the 20th Air Force. By March 1945, over 300 B-29's were taking part in raids over Japan.

However, flights over Japan remained risky as there were very many young Japanese men who were willing to take on the risk of attacking a B-29, despite its awesome firepower (12 x .50 inch guns and 1 cannon). When Japan introduced its 'George' and 'Jack' fighters, the number of casualties for the 20th Air Force increased and the damage done by the bombers was not really worth the losses. In March 1945, the capture of Iwo Jima meant that P-51 Mustangs could be used to escort the B-29's. P-61 'Black Widows' gave night time protection to the bombers during night raids. The Mustang was more than a match for the 'Jack' and 'George' fighters and daylight bombing raids over Japan became less hazardous with such protection.

LeMay still experienced one major problem though. The investment the Allies were getting for the number of bombs dropped was small. The bombers were not having a discernable impact on manufacturing in Japan. Pinpoint bombing was simply not giving the returns that LeMay wanted. He was also acutely aware that any potential invasion of Japan would be massively costly for the Americans if the Japanese Home Defence Force was well-equipped with reasonably modern weapons. If the manufacturing industries of Japan could not be destroyed, then there was no doubt in his mind, that the force would be well equipped - to the detriment of the Americans.

LeMay, having already seen the success of a fire raid on Hankow when B-29's flew much lower than their normal 30,000 feet and dropped incendiary bombs.

LeMay decided that Tokyo would be the first target for a massive raid on Japan itself. The raid was planned for the night of March 10th and the B-29's were to fly at between 5,000 and 8,000 feet. As Japan was not expected to send up night fighters, the guns from the planes were taken off as was anything that was deemed not useful to the raid. By effectively stripping the plane of non-essentials, more bombs could be carried for the raid. Along with Tokyo, Kobe, Osaka and Nagoya were also targeted. As each had flourishing cottage industries that fed the factories of each city, LeMay hoped to starve these factories of required parts. He also hoped that the fires that would be started would also destroy the larger factories as well. As the target for the raid was so large - a city area - the B-29's did not have to fly in strict formation, especially as little resistance was expected from the Japanese.

The incendiary bombs dropped were known as M-69's. These weighed just 6 lbs each and were dropped in a cluster of 38 within a container. One B-29 usually carried 37 of these containers, which equated to just over 1,400 bombs per plane. The bombs were set free from the container at 5,000 feet by a time fuse and then exploded on contact with the ground. When they did this, they spread a jelly-petrol compound that was highly inflammable.

For the attack on Tokyo, over 300 B-29's were involved. They took off for a flight that would get them to Tokyo just before dawn, thus giving them the cover of darkness, but with daylight for the return journey to the Marianas. They flew at 7,000 feet. This in itself may have baffled the city's defenders as they would have been used to the B-29's flying at 30,000 feet.

The raid had a massive impact on Tokyo. Photo-reconnaissance showed that 16 square miles of the city had been destroyed. Sixteen major factories - ironically scheduled for a future daylight raid - were destroyed along with many cottage industries. In parts of the city, the fires joined up to create a firestorm. The fires burned so fiercely and they consumed so much oxygen, that people in the locality suffocated. It is thought that 100,000 people were killed in the raid and another 100,000 injured. The Americans lost 14 B-29's; under the 5% rate of loss that was considered to be 'acceptable'.

On March 12th, a similar raid took place on Nagoya. The raid was less successful as the fires did not join up and just over 1 square mile of the city was destroyed. On March 13th, Osaka was attacked. Eight square miles of the city were destroyed. Nearly 2.5 square miles of Kobe was also destroyed by incendiary raids. In the space of ten days, the Americans had dropped nearly 9,500 tons of incendiaries on Japanese cities and destroyed 29 square miles of what was considered to be important industrial land.
 
2012-09-25 06:55:08 PM
Sing Along Time!!!

We're taught that after the war
The Nazis vanished without a trace
But battalions of fascists
Still dream of a master race

The history books
They tell of their defeat in 45
Why did they all come out of the woodwork
On the day the Nazi died

They say the prisoner of Spandau
Was a symbol of defeat
Whilst Hess remained imprisoned
Then the fascists they were beat

So the promise of an Aryan world
Would never materialize
So why did they all come out of the woodwork
On the day the Nazi died

The world is ridden by maggots
The maggots are getting fat
They're making a tasty meal
Of all the bosses and bureaucrats

They're taking over the board rooms
And they're fat and full of pride
And they all came out of the woodwork
On the day the Nazi died

So if you meet with these historians
I'll tell you what to say
Tell them that the Nazis
Never really went away

They're out there burning houses down
And they're peddling racist lies
And we'll never rest again
Until every Nazi dies


CHUMBAWAMBA - THE DAY THE NAZI DIED
 
2012-09-25 07:09:19 PM

chuckufarlie: The fact that Hiroshima had not been attacked prior to April of 1945 does not mean that it was not a valuable military target.


It means it was low on the list, at least 2/3 of the way down the list. We don't bomb alphabetically.

chuckufarlie: Did you even go to the link I gave you?


Do you not understand why a museum, in Japan, might not want to make it clear to their citizens that a central reason for the choice of Hiroshima was for an accurate assessment of a weapon's effectiveness? I'll take the word of the generals involved in the decision making process over a diplomatically influenced institution residing in the affected country, thank you.
 
2012-09-25 07:33:10 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: The fact that Hiroshima had not been attacked prior to April of 1945 does not mean that it was not a valuable military target.

It means it was low on the list, at least 2/3 of the way down the list. We don't bomb alphabetically.

chuckufarlie: Did you even go to the link I gave you?

Do you not understand why a museum, in Japan, might not want to make it clear to their citizens that a central reason for the choice of Hiroshima was for an accurate assessment of a weapon's effectiveness? I'll take the word of the generals involved in the decision making process over a diplomatically influenced institution residing in the affected country, thank you.


Yes, the generals did want a city that had not been bombed in order to see the effectiveness of the weapon. That, however, was not the real reason that Hiroshima was bombed. It is just the reason why it had not been attacked prior to August.

The reason that ANY city in Japan was attacked with an atomic bomb was to end the war as quickly as possible with the smallest number of deaths. The fact that they wanted to measure the effectiveness was a secondary consideration.

You made the claim that Hiroshima was not an important target. That is not true. It was an important military target. The fact that it had not been bombed before is not a measure of its importance or lack thereof. If not for the atomic bombs, LeMay would have continued to firebomb all of the major cities of Japan, Hiroshima included. All of the major cities in Japan contained legitimate military targets. That is why they would have been destroyed.


You seem to have a vested interest in believing that Hiroshima was bombed just to measure the effect of the bomb. I have explained all of your concerns to you. You refuse to accept the simple facts as I have laid them out to you. I do not understand why you refuse to accept the truth. I have provided you with links to reliable resources and you refuse to even consider them. Your entire position is based on the fact that you misunderstand what that book was talking about.


Good luck, life is really going to suck for you.
 
2012-09-25 07:35:07 PM

Amos Quito: Lego_Addict: I agree with everyone, it's time to let it go. These guys may have stood by and let people die but so have a ton of other people who are still out there and can be brought to justice more practically than a bunch of 90 year olds. The article writer is just an over zealous Jew.


You misunderstand the motives of these hound-dogs.

Their key goal is to keep the HolocaustTM front-and-center in the eyes of the world, to remind us incessantly that it was THE worst atrocity EVER committed by ANYONE EVER - and not just because of what was done, but because of WHO it was done to.

The timing of this particular article was precious - what with the United Nations currently in session, Obama speaking today, Ahmadinejad speaking yesterday AND tomorrow - the unwashed gentiles NEED to be reminded who the perpetual Victims are, and that they suffered.

Oh how they suffered!

Forget what the Victim State has been doing to those it ruthlessly occupies and oppresses today. Forget that the Victim State has been working for 20 years to try to con the West into attacking Iran, and is constantly threatening to do so unilaterally.

No, the pseudo-religious dogma of the HolocaustTM MUST be constantly drilled into the psyche, so that they can continue to occupy, oppress, threaten, and expand with impunity.

Only a Nazi would dare call them on their hypocrisy.



:-)


Yep, this is why I have you favorited ;)
 
2012-09-25 07:43:18 PM

Lego_Addict: Amos Quito: Lego_Addict: I agree with everyone, it's time to let it go. These guys may have stood by and let people die but so have a ton of other people who are still out there and can be brought to justice more practically than a bunch of 90 year olds. The article writer is just an over zealous Jew.


You misunderstand the motives of these hound-dogs.

Their key goal is to keep the HolocaustTM front-and-center in the eyes of the world, to remind us incessantly that it was THE worst atrocity EVER committed by ANYONE EVER - and not just because of what was done, but because of WHO it was done to.

The timing of this particular article was precious - what with the United Nations currently in session, Obama speaking today, Ahmadinejad speaking yesterday AND tomorrow - the unwashed gentiles NEED to be reminded who the perpetual Victims are, and that they suffered.

Oh how they suffered!

Forget what the Victim State has been doing to those it ruthlessly occupies and oppresses today. Forget that the Victim State has been working for 20 years to try to con the West into attacking Iran, and is constantly threatening to do so unilaterally.

No, the pseudo-religious dogma of the HolocaustTM MUST be constantly drilled into the psyche, so that they can continue to occupy, oppress, threaten, and expand with impunity.

Only a Nazi would dare call them on their hypocrisy.



:-)

Yep, this is why I have you favorited ;)


And why I put him on ignore, A self professed Nazi, no less.
 
2012-09-25 07:52:16 PM

Amos Quito: Yes, we have amazing kids and wonderful grandkids


That's gotta be the most depressing thing I've heard all week.
 
2012-09-25 08:06:40 PM

Porous Horace: Amos Quito: Yes, we have amazing kids and wonderful grandkids

That's gotta be the most depressing thing I've heard all week.


Have you heard of the kid on the east coast who was named Adolph Hitler Campbell by his parents. Probably this guys grand kid.
 
2012-09-25 08:25:24 PM

chuckufarlie: Porous Horace: Amos Quito: Yes, we have amazing kids and wonderful grandkids

That's gotta be the most depressing thing I've heard all week.

Have you heard of the kid on the east coast who was named Adolph Hitler Campbell by his parents. Probably this guys grand kid.


His calling out Israel on their hypocrisy isn't hatred or racism, and immediately resorting to such childish tactics just makes you both look like whining teenagers who can't come up with a coherent response. His statements were about Israel's actions, which is a fair argument to make. I think plenty of countries do horrible things, just because recent history hasn't been kind to a particular population, doesn't mean their country gets a free pass.
 
2012-09-25 08:39:21 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: Porous Horace: Amos Quito: Yes, we have amazing kids and wonderful grandkids

That's gotta be the most depressing thing I've heard all week.

Have you heard of the kid on the east coast who was named Adolph Hitler Campbell by his parents. Probably this guys grand kid.

His calling out Israel on their hypocrisy isn't hatred or racism, and immediately resorting to such childish tactics just makes you both look like whining teenagers who can't come up with a coherent response. His statements were about Israel's actions, which is a fair argument to make. I think plenty of countries do horrible things, just because recent history hasn't been kind to a particular population, doesn't mean their country gets a free pass.


You have already displayed a remarkable inability to understand what you read. Your feelings about this, or any subject, is hardly worth reading.
 
2012-09-25 08:58:10 PM

chuckufarlie: You have already displayed a remarkable inability to understand what you read. Your feelings about this, or any subject, is hardly worth reading.


Whatever you say, Mr "I know more about the motivation behind Hiroshima than the generals who were directly involved".
 
2012-09-25 09:01:48 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: You have already displayed a remarkable inability to understand what you read. Your feelings about this, or any subject, is hardly worth reading.

Whatever you say, Mr "I know more about the motivation behind Hiroshima than the generals who were directly involved".


Once again you fail to understand the facts. I know what their motivation was. It is you that does not understand. At this point I am not surprised that you continue to be completely confused. I do hope that by the time you grow up, you will learn to think coherently.
 
2012-09-25 09:17:18 PM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: Porous Horace: Amos Quito: Yes, we have amazing kids and wonderful grandkids

That's gotta be the most depressing thing I've heard all week.

Have you heard of the kid on the east coast who was named Adolph Hitler Campbell by his parents. Probably this guys grand kid.

His calling out Israel on their hypocrisy isn't hatred or racism, and immediately resorting to such childish tactics just makes you both look like whining teenagers who can't come up with a coherent response. His statements were about Israel's actions, which is a fair argument to make. I think plenty of countries do horrible things, just because recent history hasn't been kind to a particular population, doesn't mean their country gets a free pass.


I don't see you calling him out for all his ad-hominems which appeared earlier in this thread.
Nor calling him out for his weasel rhetoric, using oh-so-clever phrases to say nasty things about Jews under the guise of 'debate'.
Nor calling him out for him turning any thread into an anti-Israel shiatfest.

As usual, Jews are held to an impossible double standard,

As for Syria, why the fark should Israel take in anyone from a country that has always been hostile to them?
Where's your condemnation of other countries, like Iraq, which has closed its border to Syrian refugees? Or condemning all the Palestinians massacred in Syria?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_civil_war
Israelis from humanitarian groups are in Jordan to assist Syrian refugees fleeing their country's civil war. Ayoob Kara, Israel's deputy minister for the developoment of the Negev and Galilee, said that Israelis are assisting children and infants who have been injured in the Syrian military's ongoing violent crackdown throughout Syria. He said Israeli volunteer groups had been providing humanitarian aid in Turkey and Jordan for the past two months.

Syrians have not shown up at Israeli borders. So are the Israelis guilty of not going into Syria and filing up buses with refugees and bringing them back to Israel?

Also, what hypocrisy?

As for not attacking his arguments, they been trotted out and attacked over and over - it's a merry-go-round of hate, with him spinning the wheel and I ain't gonna be riding.
It goes from snide remark, to general Jew-things, to Zionism to and then back to Jews, depending on what side of which of his arguments you're attacking.
Go ahead - take each sentence of his apart and try to untangle the hate rhetoric from any argument of fact.
Plenty of people debate Israel here and are not called Jew-haters, because they don't come off the bat frothing at the mouth against Jews.
As a side note, you can also ask him how much he likes black people.

He's a troll and probably happy that this many people are actually paying attention to him.

Last word: The name of the game is survival. Jews have been around for thousands of years and we're not going away. Israel is our rightful home and always shall be, and you can all go fark yourselves or come at me bro and take your best shot.
 
2012-09-25 09:22:02 PM

Porous Horace: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: Porous Horace: Amos Quito: Yes, we have amazing kids and wonderful grandkids

That's gotta be the most depressing thing I've heard all week.

Have you heard of the kid on the east coast who was named Adolph Hitler Campbell by his parents. Probably this guys grand kid.

His calling out Israel on their hypocrisy isn't hatred or racism, and immediately resorting to such childish tactics just makes you both look like whining teenagers who can't come up with a coherent response. His statements were about Israel's actions, which is a fair argument to make. I think plenty of countries do horrible things, just because recent history hasn't been kind to a particular population, doesn't mean their country gets a free pass.

I don't see you calling him out for all his ad-hominems which appeared earlier in this thread.
Nor calling him out for his weasel rhetoric, using oh-so-clever phrases to say nasty things about Jews under the guise of 'debate'.
Nor calling him out for him turning any thread into an anti-Israel shiatfest.

As usual, Jews are held to an impossible double standard,

As for Syria, why the fark should Israel take in anyone from a country that has always been hostile to them?
Where's your condemnation of other countries, like Iraq, which has closed its border to Syrian refugees? Or condemning all the Palestinians massacred in Syria?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refugees_of_the_Syrian_civil_war
Israelis from humanitarian groups are in Jordan to assist Syrian refugees fleeing their country's civil war. Ayoob Kara, Israel's deputy minister for the developoment of the Negev and Galilee, said that Israelis are assisting children and infants who have been injured in the Syrian military's ongoing violent crackdown throughout Syria. He said Israeli volunteer groups had been providing humanitarian aid in Turkey and Jordan for the past two months.

Syrians have not shown up at Israeli borders. So are the Israelis guilty of not going in ...


This BraveNewCheneyWorld is just as bad as AQ, but a lot stupider.
 
2012-09-25 09:25:24 PM

chuckufarlie: Your premise that zionism was racist is another complete fabrication



Oh, so Herzl and his Zionist pals planned to build a "homeland" in Palestine for Jews AND OTHERS? Who, pray tell?


chuckufarlie: The Jews who moved to Palestine lived in the midst of the arabs. They were not trying to remove them from the area.



Well, the Palestinians WERE there. It's not like the wanted to share, but what choice did they have? And how does one build a JEWISH STATE (the goal of Zionism) unless one has a JEWISH MAJORITY (which the Zionists damn near failed to achieve)? No, there is no way that the Zionist regime could get a meaningful foothold unless the Palestinians were ousted/marginalized. It was part of the plan from the outset.


chuckufarlie: Even with the UN set up the country of Israel, it was on the basis that the Jews and the arabs would share the area.



Yeah, but the once the Zionists HAD their majority of Jews (thanks, Hitler!), they exposed their true face: They chased the British - who had helped them to establish the toehold, out of the area by committing the DEADLIEST act of terrorism EVER committed in Palestine/Israel.

www.bollyn.com

The perpetrators of this deadly act of terror were discovered, and were "punished" by being elected Prime Ministers of Israel.


chuckufarlie: Yes, many Jews thought that it was a bad idea to move to Palestine. Why not? They were happy where they were. Their families, friends and livelihood were all in Europe. They saw no reason to pick up and move.

Then your hero Hitler came along and at the end of the war, the surviving Jews realized that having their own place to live so that anti-Semites like you would have a harder time getting to them.

Why does how these people felt before WWII have anything to do with this?



Correction: YOUR hero Hitler, my little Zionist friend. The Zionists had struggled long and hard to try to con their fellow Jews into moving to that hellhole and they FAILED MISERABLY.

They succeeded in getting their hands on the land (via the quid pro quo Balfour Declaration), but they had NO PEOPLE. I ask you, what good is a "Jewish State" if the majority of its population is NON-JEWS?

The Zionists were in a pickle - DESPERATE. What they needed was a miracle - and G-d provided that miracle in the form of a barky-bitey sheep dog named Adolph Hitler. That sheep dog was just what the Zionists needed to move those stubborn, stiff-necked high-falootin' European Jews OUT of their comfortable European lives and into the Palestinian hell-hole.

Hitler may have been bad news for Europe's Jews, but in the eyes of the Zionists, he was a godsend. Were it not for the Nazis (or some similar anti-Semitic tragedy) the Zionist State of Israel could NEVER have come into being.

And that's a fact, Jack.

Why your Zionists pals don't refer to Adolph as their "Founding Father" is beyond me - G-d knows that they certainly behave in a manner that he would have approved of - racist, expansionist, supremacist, ruthlessly cruel to outsiders...


chuckufarlie: Once again, what is your ethnicity?



Well above I said:

Amos Quito: As to my ethnicity, I am what you would call "white": European - Scottish - Irish - English with a touch of Norman French. Not a drop of German blood in the family tree, to my knowledge. My ancestors have been in America since the mid 1600's (dad's side) and since the mid 1800's (mom's side).


But apparently you're too dull to understand, so I'll put it in terms you can understand.

I'M NOT JEWISH.

Yep, I'm a goy and that's the only thing that matters to a Judaeo-supremacist racist like you, chuckfarlie.

Happy Yom Kippur.
 
2012-09-25 09:26:37 PM
O brave Israel

Old men flee thy wrath
 
2012-09-25 09:51:26 PM

chuckufarlie: eggrolls: chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: The men in that photo dropped a bomb on a legitimate military target.

Hate to break it to you, but the ONLY reason we dropped the nuke on Hiroshima was because it was an unimportant target in nearly every respect (it had some military, but it wasn't a key target), so we could keep from bombing it with conventional weapons at no cost to the war effort. It had typically developed infrastructure so we could have an accurate assessment of the devastation.

Hate to break it to you but you are wrong. Hiroshima was not an unimportant target. We bombed it to end the war.

Following the Sino-Japanese War, with its military-related depots, Hiroshima gradually took on the atmosphere of a military supply base. In 1942, the Marine Headquarters (commonly known as the Akatsuki Corps) was established in the city. Link

This. Also, Kyoto and Tokyo were potential targets right up to the last minute. Hiroshima was chosen because of unfavorable weather conditions over the other cities.

Tokyo was not on the list because they did not want to kill the Emperor. Kyoto was not on the list because of all of the ancient buildings there.


Nope, although I was wrong about the weather saving Tokyo or Kyoto. That was the city of Kokura, saved by a 70% cloud cover. Nagasaki became the target that day.

Tokyo was still considered a possible, but low value target by 1945...because we had already pretty much bombed it flat with conventional weapons.

And we're both wrong about Kyoto. It was on the very top of the list of possible targets, but it was removed by Henry Stinson, FDR's sec'y of war, because he had honeymooned there.

But as far as the US sparing historical cities, Dresden would like a word with you.
 
2012-09-25 09:53:07 PM

Amos Quito: chuckufarlie: Your premise that zionism was racist is another complete fabrication


Oh, so Herzl and his Zionist pals planned to build a "homeland" in Palestine for Jews AND OTHERS? Who, pray tell?


chuckufarlie: The Jews who moved to Palestine lived in the midst of the arabs. They were not trying to remove them from the area.


Well, the Palestinians WERE there. It's not like the wanted to share, but what choice did they have? And how does one build a JEWISH STATE (the goal of Zionism) unless one has a JEWISH MAJORITY (which the Zionists damn near failed to achieve)? No, there is no way that the Zionist regime could get a meaningful foothold unless the Palestinians were ousted/marginalized. It was part of the plan from the outset.


chuckufarlie: Even with the UN set up the country of Israel, it was on the basis that the Jews and the arabs would share the area.


Yeah, but the once the Zionists HAD their majority of Jews (thanks, Hitler!), they exposed their true face: They chased the British - who had helped them to establish the toehold, out of the area by committing the DEADLIEST act of terrorism EVER committed in Palestine/Israel.

[www.bollyn.com image 351x264]

The perpetrators of this deadly act of terror were discovered, and were "punished" by being elected Prime Ministers of Israel.


chuckufarlie: Yes, many Jews thought that it was a bad idea to move to Palestine. Why not? They were happy where they were. Their families, friends and livelihood were all in Europe. They saw no reason to pick up and move.

Then your hero Hitler came along and at the end of the war, the surviving Jews realized that having their own place to live so that anti-Semites like you would have a harder time getting to them.

Why does how these people felt before WWII have anything to do with this?


Correction: YOUR hero Hitler, my little Zionist friend. The Zionists had struggled long and hard to try to con their fellow Jews into moving to that hellhole and they FAILED MISERABLY.
...


I know that you are not Jewish. I am thinking that you are an arab. Don't deny it, I could care less about what you have to so.

Hitler is no hero to me, but I can see why you would think that he is your hero, You two have so much in common.,
 
2012-09-25 09:57:28 PM

eggrolls: chuckufarlie: eggrolls: chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: The men in that photo dropped a bomb on a legitimate military target.

Hate to break it to you, but the ONLY reason we dropped the nuke on Hiroshima was because it was an unimportant target in nearly every respect (it had some military, but it wasn't a key target), so we could keep from bombing it with conventional weapons at no cost to the war effort. It had typically developed infrastructure so we could have an accurate assessment of the devastation.

Hate to break it to you but you are wrong. Hiroshima was not an unimportant target. We bombed it to end the war.

Following the Sino-Japanese War, with its military-related depots, Hiroshima gradually took on the atmosphere of a military supply base. In 1942, the Marine Headquarters (commonly known as the Akatsuki Corps) was established in the city. Link

This. Also, Kyoto and Tokyo were potential targets right up to the last minute. Hiroshima was chosen because of unfavorable weather conditions over the other cities.

Tokyo was not on the list because they did not want to kill the Emperor. Kyoto was not on the list because of all of the ancient buildings there.

Nope, although I was wrong about the weather saving Tokyo or Kyoto. That was the city of Kokura, saved by a 70% cloud cover. Nagasaki became the target that day.

Tokyo was still considered a possible, but low value target by 1945...because we had already pretty much bombed it flat with conventional weapons.

And we're both wrong about Kyoto. It was on the very top of the list of possible targets, but it was removed by Henry Stinson, FDR's sec'y of war, because he had honeymooned there.

But as far as the US sparing historical cities, Dresden would like a word with you.


I was not wrong about Kyoto. The sec/war did honeymoon there and he stated that he would hate to see all of the old buildings destroyed. As for Dresden, I never said that the US wanted to spare historical cities, I specifically mentioned just one city - Kyoto.
 
2012-09-25 10:00:50 PM

tirob: Porous Horace: People like AQ are more responsible for the existence of Israel than Theodore Hertzl. Discuss.

I am not and never have been an admirer of Theodor Herzl, Israel, or Zionism, but if anyone here could ever make me sympathize with any or all of them, he'd be the man.

Amos Quito: the Balfour Declaration was a quid pro quo in which Britain promised Rothschild (Zionist leader) a chunk of Palestine IN EXCHANGE for the support of the Zionists - 20 years BEFORE WWII began - a move which altered the course of WWI in favor of the Allies.

The Germans noticed, and felt betrayed. It pissed them off. This created much animosity between ethnic Germans and Jews, and set the stage for the conflict that would culminate in the Holocaust.


Nonsense like this doesn't help matters. The Nazis and their predecessors seldom mentioned Zionism in their anti-Jewish diatribes



On the contrary, the Nazis were VERY much involved with the Zionists. In fact, they had quite the cozy little arrangement going during the 1930's. You see, the Nazis and the Zionists shared a common goal: MOVING JEWS.

The Nazis wanted the Jews (who they claimed were disloyal, subversive and untrustworthy) OUT of Germany - and they didn't really care where they went.

The Zionists, OTOH, wanted as many Jews as possible to move INTO Palestine, and they VERY MUCH preferred the kind of educated, cultured and sharp-witted Jews that Germany could provide. So they set up a little arrangement called the Haavara (Transfer) agreement, wherein Zionistsschemers worked hand-in-hand in full cooperation with the Nazis to move as many Jews to Palestine as possible.

Read the link. Learn.

Remember: The primary goal of Zionists was NOT to "save Jews", but to establish a "Jewish State". For some really great insights into the Zionist mindset, read ISRAEL WAS EVERTHING - a nice little piece written by the famed Jewish historian Sir Martin John Gilbert and published in the New York Times in 1987.

Here's a pearl from that link:

''If I knew that it was possible to save all the children of Germany by transporting them to England, and only half by transferring them to the Land of Israel, I would choose the latter, for before us lies not only the numbers of these children but the historical reckoning of the people of Israel.''

David Ben Gurion - Zionist hero and first Prime Minister of the Zionist State


tirob: (I believe that Hitler mentioned Zionism in Mein Kampf just once), although they frequently accused Jews of simultaneously being Communists, Social Democrats, international bankers, and practically everything else. Zionism was legal in the Reich until the end of 1938.

The Germans started WWII because they reckoned that they could achieve hegemony in Europe, not because they were pissed off at Zionists.



And indeed Jews / Zionists were heavily involved in Bolshevik/Soviet Communism, international banking (Rothschilds) and "just about everything else".

And I did not say that the (perceived) Zionist betrayal of the Germans with the Balfour Declaration / Treaty of Versailles was the cause of WWII, I said it "created much animosity between ethnic Germans and Jews, and set the stage for the conflict that would culminate in the Holocaust - meaning the inter-ethnic strife.

Read the links.
 
2012-09-25 10:04:51 PM

Amos Quito:

what the Zionists needed to move those stubborn, stiff-necked high-falootin' European Jews OUT of their comfortable European lives


Your ignorance of the economic situation of the European Jews before 1939 is unparalleled. A *large* number of them, particularly in Poland, Lithuania, and Rumania, lived lives that were far from comfortable; they shivered with cold in the winter, had no plumbing or electricity, and in many cases were dependent economically on money sent from relatives elsewhere.

Hitler may have been bad news for Europe's Jews, but in the eyes of the Zionists, he was a godsend. Were it not for the Nazis (or some similar anti-Semitic tragedy) the Zionist State of Israel could NEVER have come into being.

The Zionists got plenty of help populating their state from other sources, too. Palestinians who have been displaced or otherwise persecuted during the last 65 years can thank governments in many an Arab country for throwing out their Jewish citizens and thus foisting them on Israel.

I will suggest that we could help out the Palestinians and weaken Israel by accepting some Jewish Israelis as immigrants to the US. How would you feel about that?
 
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