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(CNN)   Columnist says Nazi hunting is still a worthy pursuit, mostly because you can just go to a German graveyard, point at some random graves from the 1940s, yell "FOUND 'EM", and spend the rest of the day drinking   (cnn.com) divider line 260
    More: Interesting, Nazis, nazi war criminals, accessory to murder, passage  
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4428 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2012 at 6:54 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-25 10:28:37 AM
Personally I disagree with the Nuremberg ruling that "following orders" isn't valid. I agree it isn't excuse, but I'd argue it provides mitigating circumstances. If you're some 20 year old guard and fail to do your job in Nazi Germany, odds are you get two bullets to your head. Then the Gestapo goes out and grabs your family and does unpleasant stuff to your family. That way the guy they get to replace does his job.

When the central government is busy planning atrocities, they tend to ensure they get carried out via the threat of reprisal against their own expandable grunts. The average person didn't tell Stalin, Hitler, or Mao "No" when asked to do something. Of course the average person never really did interact with any of those, rather you didn't tell the Gestapo, the KGB, or the Red Guard "no".

IMHO we should identify and hunt down those who set up the apparatus of terror. The guys who created the Gestapo, who formed Hitler's planning departments, regional heads, etc. A lot of the guys on the ground were doing it for ration coupons so they could put food on the table for their family and perhaps thinking "fark, I should have moved the family to America back in '33 like my next door neighbor did".

At the end of the day it seems like punishing people who opted not to rock the boat and keep their family fed and sheltered. Not inhuman monsters, but guys who opted to conform to the system rather than take some kind stand that would get their family tossed into a camp. Basically they accepted the normalization of evil and all that, but that's because they're only human. The guy who needs a bullet in his head is the guy who did all the work to figure out how to normalize the atrocity and sell it. Punishing some guy who just conformed to the system or was young, dumb, and easily swayed by propaganda is just being a vengeful dick.

At the end of the day the fact that someday you might be held accountable by some Nuremberg type tribunal at some later date really doesn't hold water when there is a member of the secret police watching over you and demanding to know what the hold up is. Kill the guy who signed the orders for the atrocity, the guys who planned it out and automated it, but picking out individual guards is horseshiat.

Of course my suggestion would be that we hunt down the Jewish resistance fighters (mostly active in Eastern Europe) who joined up with Red Army units and conducted attacks on civilian targets. Because hey those were war crimes too. Maybe Mr. Zuroff should get on that.

/war is hell
 
2012-09-25 10:30:14 AM

evilmousse: he seems like an impartial arbiter.

next, i think i'll ask a MADD mother whose child was killed in a drunk driving accident board member who draws a large salary from your donations about drunk driving laws.


FTFY

/I hate drunk drivers, but I also hate vultures who've taken over advocacy groups and use sympathy to earn a big paycheck
 
2012-09-25 10:31:56 AM
Used to be you could just look at NASA. Our government brought over 1500 Nazis, many of whom were war criminals, beginning in the 1940s, to help with the space program.

Here's an fascinsting, though very short, video about "Operation Paperclip." But what's most interesting - and chilling - is the very end. The narrator talks about a Pentagon publication where it is predicted that there will be a widening gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" as time goes on. (I do not think most people would predict that. They would say that, as we develop more and better ways to provide for people's needs and keep them healthy, that there would be less poverty and disease, and more equality.)

Anyway, this Space Command planning document, "Vision 2020," says that the Pentagon won't be able to put a Marine on every corner, as regional instability mounts. That is why superiority in space supports "battlefield "success in future warfare"! The picture on the front is of satellites shooting and hitting targets on the ground, and the narrative goes on to say that they can "see, hear, and target everything."

The Nazi legacy continues...

Link
 
2012-09-25 10:32:22 AM

Subtle_Canary: Tat'dGreaser: cptjeff: I think you're seeing people reacting to the massive manhunt for the low level guys who were never really that significant to the Nazi party when they're 90 years old. It does absolutely no good for anybody, I think is the point.

Significant or not to them, an SS guard at a concentration camp is just as responsible as the person who pulled the trigger. These are not common Bundeswehr soldiers we're talking about, these are SS. No one just joined their ranks without being completely indoctrinated with the idea of exterminating certain groups of people.

Growing old is not a valid defense against what they did.

Um yeah, they did. Once the war got into full swing and Germany's man power started feeling the pinch, the SS tended to conscript able bodied men to bolster its ranks (remember, the SS took retarded casualties on the Eastern Front. Fanatical loyalty combined with poor training tends to eat up manpower), The Auxillary SS that tended to be guards at camps were conscripts. Hell by 1944, most of the SS werent even German and of THOSE guys you had a better chance of finding some conscripted schlub with a beef against Stalin or whatever than any national socialist.


Actually the Waffen SS were well-trained and admired by the German Army for their combat prowess. Since SS units were better-equipped with vehicles than Army units, they suffered fewer casualties than overrun Army units later in the war.

The number of foreign volunteers in the SS increased as the war went on, but they were never a majority. The camp SS were mostly volunteers, although foreign camp staff "Trawniki" had the choice of being guards or staying in lethal POW camps for captured Soviet troops.

And the line that only SS and Gestapo committed atrocities is a myth: read Chris Browning's Ordinary Men for a look at German Army MP unit participation. And other combat men in the Army, Waffen SS, Air Force and Navy frequently killed Allied civilians and POWs:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2206982/I-liked-shoot--women- k ids--kind-sport-Secret-Nazi-tapes-reveal-ordinary-German-soldiers-resp onsible-war-crimes-just-SS.html
 
2012-09-25 10:33:06 AM

JeffDudeLebowski: They'll always say there's some left over. If they say their done, they'd stop getting money and they simply can't have that, can they? In 50 years "Look, we know a former Nazi guard is hiding in Altoona, PA." "Ummm, that would make them over 140 years old." ".............NAZIS! NAZIS! NAZIS!"

I wonder, if in our lifetimes, the Holocaust card will ceased to be played as something to hold over the world's collective heads to extort what Israel wants.


Doubt it. Americans still get slavery thrown in our faces, and that was 150 years ago.

Why are white people racists? Because slavery, that's why.
 
2012-09-25 10:33:33 AM

wedun: I see chuckufarlie white knighting for collective punishment. Not a big suprise. hey! it looks like those palestinians really want to be treated like human beings, maybe you should bomb them with white phosphorus again.


At no point have I said anything about collective punishment. Maybe you should learn to read.

You are obviously anti-Jewish and it shows. Maybe that is why you are unable to see that at no point did I say anything about collective punishment. Every time that one of these Nazis is put on trial, records are used to prove his personal guilt. Witnesses are brought into court to testify against the person.

What part of that sounds like collective punishment to you?
 
2012-09-25 10:37:06 AM
There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.
 
2012-09-25 10:40:17 AM

PsiChi: Used to be you could just look at NASA. Our government brought over 1500 Nazis, many of whom were war criminals, beginning in the 1940s, to help with the space program.

Here's an fascinsting, though very short, video about "Operation Paperclip." But what's most interesting - and chilling - is the very end. The narrator talks about a Pentagon publication where it is predicted that there will be a widening gap between the "haves" and "have-nots" as time goes on. (I do not think most people would predict that. They would say that, as we develop more and better ways to provide for people's needs and keep them healthy, that there would be less poverty and disease, and more equality.)

Anyway, this Space Command planning document, "Vision 2020," says that the Pentagon won't be able to put a Marine on every corner, as regional instability mounts. That is why superiority in space supports "battlefield "success in future warfare"! The picture on the front is of satellites shooting and hitting targets on the ground, and the narrative goes on to say that they can "see, hear, and target everything."

The Nazi legacy continues...

Link


The vast majority of the German scientists brought to this country to work on the space program spent the war working in labs and had nothing to do with any war crimes. The one person who was suspected was Von Braun and his "crime" was that he knew that slave laborers were used to build rockets. He had no control of that, nor could he stop it. He had already spent time in prison for his views so I can see how he might have decided to keep quiet.

If that is what you consider to be a crime, so be it. But there was nothing he could have done to make things better for these people. He was as powerless as they were to change their condition.

Not all Germans were Nazis. Not all Nazis were war criminals.
 
2012-09-25 10:40:21 AM

chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Sorry, but if you're claiming to be an instrument of justice, and ignore all other the war criminals who have committed their crimes only a few years ago and a few hundred miles away, so you can exclusively find war criminals who live thousands of miles away and committed their crimes against one particular race, your race, then you are in reality only an instrument of revenge. That isn't a noble cause, no matter what story you tell yourself.


The man is an instrument of justice. His focus is on Nazi War Criminals. The organization that he works for has devoted itself to tracking down Nazi War Criminals since WWII ended. Just because you think he should branch out makes no difference at all.


So if a mafioso hunts someone down that hurt "the family", then he's no different than a police investigator who hunts down someone in his list of criminals, right? Justice is blind, revenge is not.

chuckufarlie: Your notion that he is an instrument of revenge is ignorant. The people he chases were responsible for horrendous crimes. The fact that he is Jewish has no impact on the nobility of his work. Would you think it was a noble cause if the guy was a Lutheran?


No, he chases people who were responsible for horrendous crimes against jews from a single war exclusively. I never said the fact that he's jewish has any impact on the nobility of his work (fairly feeble effort to construct a straw man on your part), I said that the decision he has made to ignore any and all war criminals who have not made jews their victims is what makes his work less noble. He is in the business of revenge, nothing more.
 
2012-09-25 10:43:54 AM

CptnSpldng: There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.


And you are a fool. How much would it take for you to grab up a four month old child by the foot and smash its head against a wall? Would you be willing to toss a living baby into a fire? How many people would you be willing to shoot in the back of their neck before you decided it was enough?

And beyond that, your statement does nothing to mitigate the guilt of the people who actually committed these crimes.
 
2012-09-25 10:44:30 AM
Nab em if you stumble over them sure, but still hunting them? Why? So a 90yr old can spend 4 years in prison on the taxpayers dime?
 
2012-09-25 10:45:52 AM

Broktun: [cdn.thegloss.com image 560x375]

Found one!


As much as I dislike that guy, didn't he more or less run away from the Hitler Youth?
 
2012-09-25 10:48:30 AM
Also a lot of people in this thread are a little hazy on the difference between say Einsatzgruppen and SS combat divisions. The former where the roving death squads that followed behind Heer units and killed people. The later were elite divisions used where the fighting was heaviest (and ordered to kill people in massacres as well as the war went on).

Volunteering to be in a SS combat division was like volunteering to be a Ranger or the like. Elite, some extra training, better equipment. You found out later you also were expected to fill mass graves. Einsatzgruppen were typically made up of an inner cadre of loyal Nazis, strengthened by militias. A lot of older WWI vets ended up assigned to Einsatzgruppen because they were too invalid to fight on the front line, but could ride around in a truck and shoot Slavs/Jews/Gypsies just fine. They weren't volunteers or the like, but in a lot of cases army reserves called up to give the Nazis more manpower. There were also things like levies against police battalions and the like where guys who had signed up to say be a police officer in Bavaria suddenly found themselves in an Einsatzgruppen.

Just because you were part of a SS command didn't mean you woke up one morning and said "You know what, I want to kill Jews, I'm going to run down to the recruiting office and volunteer". Rather the SS sucked you in and if you didn't do the new job you were just assigned, you got shot.

I recall one history channel episode (back when it was the Hitler Channel) where they interviewed a guy. He was 18, a cop, came into work and found out he was assigned to an Einsatzgruppen. He was out in the field where they were killing Jews and an older cop, who was a WWI vet, came along and took his gun. Told him "Young men shouldn't have to do this/you shouldn't have to live with this", shot the Jews, and then went off and told the SS commander the job was done. The older guy shot himself a bit before the end of the war. While certain parties have a vested interest in portraying the German population as a great recruiting base for inhuman SS monsters, that doesn't mean that was really the case.

/apparently it was common in Einsatzgruppen conscript units for the older guys to shoot the Jews
//they knew it was wrong, but they also knew if they didn't, there would be a reprisal , so the old guys shot them to save the teenagers from having to do it
 
2012-09-25 10:48:38 AM

Tat'dGreaser: Wow, Nazi-apologists. Fark really does have everything.


I forget their username and I am on my phone so I am not going to bother to check but I actually have someone farkied as a 'gives Japan a pass for WWII' which actually shocked me. The worst was that they knew of the many atrocities and war crimes. If I get to a PC soon enough I'll update with a name and thread number. *sighs*

There are a whole lot of people who really shouldn't be allowed to live. I am not the arbitrator of that, fortunately. I'd not want that role without the benefits of also being the one to decide galaxy-wide policy on everything else and I'm probably not qualified for that and I sure as hell wouldn't vote for me.
 
2012-09-25 10:52:47 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: BraveNewCheneyWorld: Sorry, but if you're claiming to be an instrument of justice, and ignore all other the war criminals who have committed their crimes only a few years ago and a few hundred miles away, so you can exclusively find war criminals who live thousands of miles away and committed their crimes against one particular race, your race, then you are in reality only an instrument of revenge. That isn't a noble cause, no matter what story you tell yourself.


The man is an instrument of justice. His focus is on Nazi War Criminals. The organization that he works for has devoted itself to tracking down Nazi War Criminals since WWII ended. Just because you think he should branch out makes no difference at all.

So if a mafioso hunts someone down that hurt "the family", then he's no different than a police investigator who hunts down someone in his list of criminals, right? Justice is blind, revenge is not.

chuckufarlie: Your notion that he is an instrument of revenge is ignorant. The people he chases were responsible for horrendous crimes. The fact that he is Jewish has no impact on the nobility of his work. Would you think it was a noble cause if the guy was a Lutheran?

No, he chases people who were responsible for horrendous crimes against jews from a single war exclusively. I never said the fact that he's jewish has any impact on the nobility of his work (fairly feeble effort to construct a straw man on your part), I said that the decision he has made to ignore any and all war criminals who have not made jews their victims is what makes his work less noble. He is in the business of revenge, nothing more.


IF you mafioso hunts down these people and then turns them over to the proper authorities than he is no different that a police investigator. The man in the article finds the criminal and then has the proper authorities arrest them. Are you aware of that?

If you believe that finding a criminal and turning him over to the police is revenge, then you really need to buy a dictionary.

As for my creating a straw man - this is YOUR statement:

"so you can exclusively find war criminals who live thousands of miles away and committed their crimes against one particular race, your race, then you are in reality only an instrument of revenge. That isn't a noble cause, no matter what story you tell yourself."

That sure sounds like you believe his being Jewish means it is not noble. Or maybe you just have problems expressing your opinions.

Maybe you should look into the organization that he works for. He is not paid to go after ALL war criminals. The organization he works for has been chasing Nazi War Criminals since the end of the war. Do you not understand?
 
2012-09-25 10:52:56 AM
Most combat SS units were garbage anyway. You got a bunch of primadonnas that for the most part didnt even get A-list equipment until late in 44 and by that time, had had their individual units destroyed and reformed so many times that they became a joke. Heer units were always coming to the rescue of vaunted 'Waffen SS elite' formations. There were probably less than half a dozen SS units that fought well, the rest of them were just cannon fodder with good PR behind them.
 
2012-09-25 10:54:48 AM
At this point, they probably hunt them down just to get advice from them. "What was the most effective wall height you guys found for a ghetto?"
 
2012-09-25 11:00:15 AM

ha-ha-guy: Also a lot of people in this thread are a little hazy on the difference between say Einsatzgruppen and SS combat divisions. The former where the roving death squads that followed behind Heer units and killed people. The later were elite divisions used where the fighting was heaviest (and ordered to kill people in massacres as well as the war went on).

Volunteering to be in a SS combat division was like volunteering to be a Ranger or the like. Elite, some extra training, better equipment. You found out later you also were expected to fill mass graves. Einsatzgruppen were typically made up of an inner cadre of loyal Nazis, strengthened by militias. A lot of older WWI vets ended up assigned to Einsatzgruppen because they were too invalid to fight on the front line, but could ride around in a truck and shoot Slavs/Jews/Gypsies just fine. They weren't volunteers or the like, but in a lot of cases army reserves called up to give the Nazis more manpower. There were also things like levies against police battalions and the like where guys who had signed up to say be a police officer in Bavaria suddenly found themselves in an Einsatzgruppen.

Just because you were part of a SS command didn't mean you woke up one morning and said "You know what, I want to kill Jews, I'm going to run down to the recruiting office and volunteer". Rather the SS sucked you in and if you didn't do the new job you were just assigned, you got shot.

I recall one history channel episode (back when it was the Hitler Channel) where they interviewed a guy. He was 18, a cop, came into work and found out he was assigned to an Einsatzgruppen. He was out in the field where they were killing Jews and an older cop, who was a WWI vet, came along and took his gun. Told him "Young men shouldn't have to do this/you shouldn't have to live with this", shot the Jews, and then went off and told the SS commander the job was done. The older guy shot himself a bit before the end of the war. While certain ...


Don't believe that the crap that you hear on the History Channel is the truth. All of the members of the Einsatzgruppen took turns killing people. It is not like this one instance, if even true, is representative. These groups spent months killing people every day. It is not conceivable that something like this happened. These guys shot several hundred people a day - the commander was there overseeing things. The idea that he went off and reported to the commander that the people were dead is not accurate..

The guys entire story is BS. He is hiding behind lies in an effort to keep out of trouble.
 
2012-09-25 11:01:36 AM

chuckufarlie: SS members did not work on the chow line, in the motor pool are any such work. Their focus was killing inmates. As for your idea that the efficiency of the German system broke down, read a book. The efficiency of German record keeping did not break down until the last months of the war. By that time, the death camps were no longer operating.


The problem is, you're unable to validate the facts of the cases because it was so long ago. There was an article yesterday about an accused SS guard. He admits he was an SS guard, but he claims he was pressed into service against his will (and the record shows he was under age when he became an SS guard.) Maybe he was just such a psychopath that he snuck in, or maybe he was really forced into the division against his will. The point is, we are beyond the ability to gather evidence that explains all of this beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the burden of evidence for citizens of this country.
 
2012-09-25 11:02:01 AM

Subtle_Canary: Most combat SS units were garbage anyway. You got a bunch of primadonnas that for the most part didnt even get A-list equipment until late in 44 and by that time, had had their individual units destroyed and reformed so many times that they became a joke. Heer units were always coming to the rescue of vaunted 'Waffen SS elite' formations. There were probably less than half a dozen SS units that fought well, the rest of them were just cannon fodder with good PR behind them.


You are completely and totally out of your mind. The Waffen SS always had the best equipment. And all German units were destroyed and reformed during the war.
 
2012-09-25 11:05:34 AM

tlchwi02: chuckufarlie: SS members did not work on the chow line, in the motor pool are any such work. Their focus was killing inmates. As for your idea that the efficiency of the German system broke down, read a book. The efficiency of German record keeping did not break down until the last months of the war. By that time, the death camps were no longer operating.

The problem is, you're unable to validate the facts of the cases because it was so long ago. There was an article yesterday about an accused SS guard. He admits he was an SS guard, but he claims he was pressed into service against his will (and the record shows he was under age when he became an SS guard.) Maybe he was just such a psychopath that he snuck in, or maybe he was really forced into the division against his will. The point is, we are beyond the ability to gather evidence that explains all of this beyond a reasonable doubt, which is the burden of evidence for citizens of this country.


You are wrong. The military records of Nazi Germany still exist and are used all of the time to determine the role a person performed in the war.

He claimed that he was forced into it, but the fact is that joining the SS was not only voluntary, until the last year of the war, it was very difficult to pass the requirements. The guy from yesterday was lying his ass off.

They can prove what these people actually did, WHY they did it is not important.
 
2012-09-25 11:06:51 AM
If you're Jewish, it's completely understandable that you want to go after Nazi heads.

For us gentiles, thinking that dragging some 90 year old who used to be a teenage guard would somehow advance human rights is the height of ignorance, inconsistency, and hypocrisy.
 
2012-09-25 11:08:34 AM

chuckufarlie: You are wrong. The military records of Nazi Germany still exist and are used all of the time to determine the role a person performed in the war.

He claimed that he was forced into it, but the fact is that joining the SS was not only voluntary, until the last year of the war, it was very difficult to pass the requirements. The guy from yesterday was lying his ass off.

They can prove what these people actually did, WHY they did it is not important.


then how did an under age kid get into an elite SS unit? tha military record confirms he was underage when he entered. Even by your own flimsy internet evidentiary standards it doesn't hold water
 
2012-09-25 11:11:36 AM

super_grass: If you're Jewish, it's completely understandable that you want to go after Nazi heads.

For us gentiles, thinking that dragging some 90 year old who used to be a teenage guard would somehow advance human rights is the height of ignorance, inconsistency, and hypocrisy.


I am a gentile. Hunting down these criminals has nothing to do with advancing human rights. It is about justice. It is about the people that they killed and seeing that the people who committed these crimes answer for them. Members of the SS who worked in the death camps were not merely guards. They all participated in killing people.
 
2012-09-25 11:16:03 AM

tlchwi02: chuckufarlie: You are wrong. The military records of Nazi Germany still exist and are used all of the time to determine the role a person performed in the war.

He claimed that he was forced into it, but the fact is that joining the SS was not only voluntary, until the last year of the war, it was very difficult to pass the requirements. The guy from yesterday was lying his ass off.

They can prove what these people actually did, WHY they did it is not important.

then how did an under age kid get into an elite SS unit? tha military record confirms he was underage when he entered. Even by your own flimsy internet evidentiary standards it doesn't hold water


It would not be difficult for an underage kid to get into the SS. The SS that worked in the camps were not elite units. The elite units were the Waffen SS, The guy in the article claims to have been in the Waffen SS but that is a lie. The Waffen SS did not work in death camps/

This person will be given a trial and his guilt of innocence will be determined then.
 
2012-09-25 11:16:10 AM

chuckufarlie: IF you mafioso hunts down these people and then turns them over to the proper authorities than he is no different that a police investigator. The man in the article finds the criminal and then has the proper authorities arrest them. Are you aware of that?

If you believe that finding a criminal and turning him over to the police is revenge, then you really need to buy a dictionary.


You're really having a hard time understanding this, aren't you? The mafioso is only hunting down people who harmed people who have harmed his family, the cop hunts all criminals indiscriminately.

re·venge [ri-venj] Show IPA verb, re·venged, re·veng·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit: He revenged his murdered brother.

chuckufarlie: As for my creating a straw man - this is YOUR statement:

"so you can exclusively find war criminals who live thousands of miles away and committed their crimes against one particular race, your race, then you are in reality only an instrument of revenge. That isn't a noble cause, no matter what story you tell yourself."

That sure sounds like you believe his being Jewish means it is not noble. Or maybe you just have problems expressing your opinions.


You fail at basic logic so hard that I'm starting to suspect you're just a troll, or one of those GIYUS propagandists. The fact is that it's not because he's jewish that his actions are not noble, but that his only interest is in "justice" for those who have harmed jews. He has no interest in any war criminals who have committed atrocities to people of any other race. I don't care about his race, but he cares about what race his targets victimized. The same would be said about anyone of any race or group, who exclusively targets those who perpetrated crimes against a group with which they themselves identify (see definition of revenge above) 

Race has only come into play because he has made race an integral part of what he calls justice, which is why I can accurately call it revenge (again, take a look at that definition up above)
 
2012-09-25 11:22:03 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: IF you mafioso hunts down these people and then turns them over to the proper authorities than he is no different that a police investigator. The man in the article finds the criminal and then has the proper authorities arrest them. Are you aware of that?

If you believe that finding a criminal and turning him over to the police is revenge, then you really need to buy a dictionary.

You're really having a hard time understanding this, aren't you? The mafioso is only hunting down people who harmed people who have harmed his family, the cop hunts all criminals indiscriminately.

re·venge [ri-venj] Show IPA verb, re·venged, re·veng·ing, noun
verb (used with object)
1.
to exact punishment or expiation for a wrong on behalf of, especially in a resentful or vindictive spirit: He revenged his murdered brother.

chuckufarlie: As for my creating a straw man - this is YOUR statement:

"so you can exclusively find war criminals who live thousands of miles away and committed their crimes against one particular race, your race, then you are in reality only an instrument of revenge. That isn't a noble cause, no matter what story you tell yourself."

That sure sounds like you believe his being Jewish means it is not noble. Or maybe you just have problems expressing your opinions.

You fail at basic logic so hard that I'm starting to suspect you're just a troll, or one of those GIYUS propagandists. The fact is that it's not because he's jewish that his actions are not noble, but that his only interest is in "justice" for those who have harmed jews. He has no interest in any war criminals who have committed atrocities to people of any other race. I don't care about his race, but he cares about what race his targets victimized. The same would be said about anyone of any race or group, who exclusively targets those who perpetrated crimes against a group with which they themselves identify (see definition of revenge above) 

Race has only come into play because he h ...


let me explain this one more time. Dr. Efraim Zuroff is the chief Nazi-hunter of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Get it? It is his JOB to hunt Nazis. He is not paid to hunt any other people.

Cops do not hunt criminals indiscriminately. They hunt the criminals that their boss tells them to hunt. They hunt the criminals who committed crimes within their jurisdiction.
 
2012-09-25 11:23:38 AM

chuckufarlie: super_grass: If you're Jewish, it's completely understandable that you want to go after Nazi heads.

For us gentiles, thinking that dragging some 90 year old who used to be a teenage guard would somehow advance human rights is the height of ignorance, inconsistency, and hypocrisy.

I am a gentile. Hunting down these criminals has nothing to do with advancing human rights. It is about justice. It is about the people that they killed and seeing that the people who committed these crimes answer for them. Members of the SS who worked in the death camps were not merely guards. They all participated in killing people.


See: inconsistency, hypocrisy.

There are people in high leadership positions who ordered and oversaw mass killings living their golden years today without fear of retribution. There are military members who belong to the US and Israel who knowing massacred civilians and yet were given slaps on the wrist. There were many, many more genocides that happened after the holocaust that were ignored, and were allowed to happen because of the lack of political will. There were mass deportations and starvation of civilians during peacetime caused by Allied occupation that happened after the second world war.

In the context of all that, I really can't take any claims of justice seriously. I can understand and sympathize with the Jews' demand for vengeance, but that's about it.
 
2012-09-25 11:26:26 AM

chuckufarlie: let me explain this one more time. Dr. Efraim Zuroff is the chief Nazi-hunter of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Get it? It is his JOB to hunt Nazis. He is not paid to hunt any other people.


So.. revenge.

chuckufarlie: Cops do not hunt criminals indiscriminately. They hunt the criminals that their boss tells them to hunt. They hunt the criminals who committed crimes within their jurisdiction.


Oh yeah! Cops aren't indiscriminate because they only hunt all the criminals!! Derp!..
 
2012-09-25 11:27:04 AM

super_grass: chuckufarlie: super_grass: If you're Jewish, it's completely understandable that you want to go after Nazi heads.

For us gentiles, thinking that dragging some 90 year old who used to be a teenage guard would somehow advance human rights is the height of ignorance, inconsistency, and hypocrisy.

I am a gentile. Hunting down these criminals has nothing to do with advancing human rights. It is about justice. It is about the people that they killed and seeing that the people who committed these crimes answer for them. Members of the SS who worked in the death camps were not merely guards. They all participated in killing people.

See: inconsistency, hypocrisy.

There are people in high leadership positions who ordered and oversaw mass killings living their golden years today without fear of retribution. There are military members who belong to the US and Israel who knowing massacred civilians and yet were given slaps on the wrist. There were many, many more genocides that happened after the holocaust that were ignored, and were allowed to happen because of the lack of political will. There were mass deportations and starvation of civilians during peacetime caused by Allied occupation that happened after the second world war.

In the context of all that, I really can't take any claims of justice seriously. I can understand and sympathize with the Jews' demand for vengeance, but that's about it.


There was a murder that happened nearby and the killer was never found. Based on your "ideas" we should stop chasing all of the other people who commit murders because nobody found this guy. If we cannot get justice for the family of this murdered man, then how can we possibly get justice for anybody else?

I guess that we can abolish all police departments because they are not 100% effective.
 
2012-09-25 11:27:35 AM

casual disregard: Tat'dGreaser: casual disregard: We said never again. And then we almost immediately turned our backs and let it happen again. And again. And again.

Cambodia. Darfur. Syria. Somalia. Etc.

Perhaps what we meant was "never again will we lift one finger against outrageous atrocities."

Question, how do you think we should have stopped those from happening?

For all our comforts and our freedoms, we do nothing while people die. If I had a good idea to help the people of Syria, I would tell you. I wish I knew what to do. That will not stop me from hating murderers.



Well, for one thing, the Victim State could open up to receiving Syrian refugees fleeing the slaughter. I mean, guys like the subject of TFA weep and gnash their teeth incessantly that the HolocaustTM victims were REFUSED entry to other countries, and were forced to suffer horrors under the Nazis.

But Israel is NOT going to allow Syrian refugees in, are they?

I guess the memory of the residents of the Victim State is selective, and SOME people are more equal than others.
 
2012-09-25 11:30:03 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: let me explain this one more time. Dr. Efraim Zuroff is the chief Nazi-hunter of the Simon Wiesenthal Center. Get it? It is his JOB to hunt Nazis. He is not paid to hunt any other people.

So.. revenge.

chuckufarlie: Cops do not hunt criminals indiscriminately. They hunt the criminals that their boss tells them to hunt. They hunt the criminals who committed crimes within their jurisdiction.

Oh yeah! Cops aren't indiscriminate because they only hunt all the criminals!! Derp!..


No, that is not true. The homicide squad chases killers. The robbery squad chases criminals that rob people.

And most importantly - THEY CHASE THE CRIMINALS THAT THEIR BOSS TELLS THEM TO CHASE.
 
2012-09-25 11:34:21 AM

chuckufarlie: No, that is not true. The homicide squad chases killers. The robbery squad chases criminals that rob people.


It cannot be called revenge, and it's not determined by race as it can in the case of the nazi hunter. If you can't get this fact by now, you're an unbelievable moran.
 
2012-09-25 11:37:10 AM

Tat'dGreaser: cptjeff: Bullshait. I'm sorry, but you're never going to convince me that prosecuting people who would have been shot if they refused is in any way just or appropriate

I just got done explaining to you that these were not normal soldiers. They have been going after SS guards. These are the guys who enjoyed their jobs.


www.sabinabecker.com

www.indybay.org

2.bp.blogspot.com

www.asianews.it

Lots of people seem to "enjoy their jobs".
 
2012-09-25 11:41:35 AM

BraveNewCheneyWorld: chuckufarlie: No, that is not true. The homicide squad chases killers. The robbery squad chases criminals that rob people.

It cannot be called revenge, and it's not determined by race as it can in the case of the nazi hunter. If you can't get this fact by now, you're an unbelievable moran.


You are probably one of the densest people I have encountered any where, not just the internet, You are so focused on your own point that you are not capable of even considering what you are people told by others. I address one point that you make and you come back with something not at all related.

How can you call it revenge when the man turns the criminals over to the court system?
 
2012-09-25 11:43:14 AM

chuckufarlie: super_grass: chuckufarlie: super_grass: If you're Jewish, it's completely understandable that you want to go after Nazi heads.

For us gentiles, thinking that dragging some 90 year old who used to be a teenage guard would somehow advance human rights is the height of ignorance, inconsistency, and hypocrisy.

I am a gentile. Hunting down these criminals has nothing to do with advancing human rights. It is about justice. It is about the people that they killed and seeing that the people who committed these crimes answer for them. Members of the SS who worked in the death camps were not merely guards. They all participated in killing people.

See: inconsistency, hypocrisy.

There are people in high leadership positions who ordered and oversaw mass killings living their golden years today without fear of retribution. There are military members who belong to the US and Israel who knowing massacred civilians and yet were given slaps on the wrist. There were many, many more genocides that happened after the holocaust that were ignored, and were allowed to happen because of the lack of political will. There were mass deportations and starvation of civilians during peacetime caused by Allied occupation that happened after the second world war.

In the context of all that, I really can't take any claims of justice seriously. I can understand and sympathize with the Jews' demand for vengeance, but that's about it.

There was a murder that happened nearby and the killer was never found. Based on your "ideas" we should stop chasing all of the other people who commit murders because nobody found this guy. If we cannot get justice for the family of this murdered man, then how can we possibly get justice for anybody else?

I guess that we can abolish all police departments because they are not 100% effective.


What are you even trying to say?

I never advocated letting injustices go undressed, I was arguing the opposite.

Your analogy sucks.
 
2012-09-25 11:44:31 AM

dragonchild: Except the Nazis never won the legislature (Reichstag); they got their majority by physically removing the Communists. They never ran the country with popular approval; more than half of Germany was intimidated into silence. If you point to a random grave from the 1940s, you don't even have a coin's chances of being right.


Yea, the Nazis were very unpopular in German circa 1937...they only held power because of pure intimidation, which is why when they got the chance as the war fell apart, they rose up and overthrew Hitler.

Or not

/to be sure, there weren't any Nazis left in 1946, it's funny how they all just vanished, just like that
 
2012-09-25 11:44:41 AM

loki see loki do: He cites the case of Ivan (John) Demjanjuk. FFS, he was found not guilty by the Israelis, then tried as a supposedly completely different guard in Germany.

Seems awful fishy.



It's all about spiteful vengeance.

Once these bastards sink their teeth in, they NEVER let go. Guilt or innocence of an individual is irrelevant. They're getting their kicks by making SOMEONE suffer for their COLLECTIVE suffering.
 
2012-09-25 11:46:26 AM

chuckufarlie: CptnSpldng: There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.

And you are a fool. How much would it take for you to grab up a four month old child by the foot and smash its head against a wall? Would you be willing to toss a living baby into a fire? How many people would you be willing to shoot in the back of their neck before you decided it was enough?

And beyond that, your statement does nothing to mitigate the guilt of the people who actually committed these crimes.


That thing sailing over your head, Chucklefark? It's sometimes referred to as a point. Google "banality of evil."

/Not about to engage in discussion.
// Doing this from what is supposed to be work.
 
2012-09-25 11:48:11 AM

super_grass: chuckufarlie: super_grass: chuckufarlie: super_grass: If you're Jewish, it's completely understandable that you want to go after Nazi heads.

For us gentiles, thinking that dragging some 90 year old who used to be a teenage guard would somehow advance human rights is the height of ignorance, inconsistency, and hypocrisy.

I am a gentile. Hunting down these criminals has nothing to do with advancing human rights. It is about justice. It is about the people that they killed and seeing that the people who committed these crimes answer for them. Members of the SS who worked in the death camps were not merely guards. They all participated in killing people.

See: inconsistency, hypocrisy.

There are people in high leadership positions who ordered and oversaw mass killings living their golden years today without fear of retribution. There are military members who belong to the US and Israel who knowing massacred civilians and yet were given slaps on the wrist. There were many, many more genocides that happened after the holocaust that were ignored, and were allowed to happen because of the lack of political will. There were mass deportations and starvation of civilians during peacetime caused by Allied occupation that happened after the second world war.

In the context of all that, I really can't take any claims of justice seriously. I can understand and sympathize with the Jews' demand for vengeance, but that's about it.

There was a murder that happened nearby and the killer was never found. Based on your "ideas" we should stop chasing all of the other people who commit murders because nobody found this guy. If we cannot get justice for the family of this murdered man, then how can we possibly get justice for anybody else?

I guess that we can abolish all police departments because they are not 100% effective.

What are you even trying to say?

I never advocated letting injustices go undressed, I was arguing the opposite.

Your analogy sucks.


yes, you did say just that when you posted:

There are people in high leadership positions who ordered and oversaw mass killings living their golden years today without fear of retribution. There are military members who belong to the US and Israel who knowing massacred civilians and yet were given slaps on the wrist. There were many, many more genocides that happened after the holocaust that were ignored, and were allowed to happen because of the lack of political will. There were mass deportations and starvation of civilians during peacetime caused by Allied occupation that happened after the second world war.
 
2012-09-25 11:48:19 AM

chuckufarlie: How can you call it revenge when the man turns the criminals over to the court system?


Because of what the dictionary says for the definition of revenge, that's how.
 
2012-09-25 11:49:52 AM

CptnSpldng: chuckufarlie: CptnSpldng: There are hardly any excesses of the most crazed psychopath that cannot easily be duplicated by a normal kindly family man who just comes in to work every day and has a job to do.

And you are a fool. How much would it take for you to grab up a four month old child by the foot and smash its head against a wall? Would you be willing to toss a living baby into a fire? How many people would you be willing to shoot in the back of their neck before you decided it was enough?

And beyond that, your statement does nothing to mitigate the guilt of the people who actually committed these crimes.

That thing sailing over your head, Chucklefark? It's sometimes referred to as a point. Google "banality of evil."

/Not about to engage in discussion.
// Doing this from what is supposed to be work.


I guess that the timer in the fry cooker gives you time to get on the internet.
 
2012-09-25 11:51:33 AM
If one person calls you a horse, you can laugh it off

if another person calls you a horse, you should think about it.

if a third person calls you a horse, go get a saddle, you are a horse.
 
2012-09-25 11:54:02 AM
What ever happened to Hitler's pet rooster that was recovered from under a rock?

Link

(NSFW lyrics)
 
2012-09-25 11:57:50 AM
About the only wherabouts still unknown Nazi important enough that finding their fracking grave if they are already dead is Heinrich Mueller. Unless he is like 111 he's dead already,.
 
2012-09-25 11:58:03 AM

Lego_Addict: I agree with everyone, it's time to let it go. These guys may have stood by and let people die but so have a ton of other people who are still out there and can be brought to justice more practically than a bunch of 90 year olds. The article writer is just an over zealous Jew.



You misunderstand the motives of these hound-dogs.

Their key goal is to keep the HolocaustTM front-and-center in the eyes of the world, to remind us incessantly that it was THE worst atrocity EVER committed by ANYONE EVER - and not just because of what was done, but because of WHO it was done to.

The timing of this particular article was precious - what with the United Nations currently in session, Obama speaking today, Ahmadinejad speaking yesterday AND tomorrow - the unwashed gentiles NEED to be reminded who the perpetual Victims are, and that they suffered.

Oh how they suffered!

Forget what the Victim State has been doing to those it ruthlessly occupies and oppresses today. Forget that the Victim State has been working for 20 years to try to con the West into attacking Iran, and is constantly threatening to do so unilaterally.

No, the pseudo-religious dogma of the HolocaustTM MUST be constantly drilled into the psyche, so that they can continue to occupy, oppress, threaten, and expand with impunity.

Only a Nazi would dare call them on their hypocrisy.



:-)
 
2012-09-25 11:58:27 AM

asmodeus224: dragonchild: Except the Nazis never won the legislature (Reichstag); they got their majority by physically removing the Communists. They never ran the country with popular approval; more than half of Germany was intimidated into silence. If you point to a random grave from the 1940s, you don't even have a coin's chances of being right.

Yea, the Nazis were very unpopular in German circa 1937...they only held power because of pure intimidation, which is why when they got the chance as the war fell apart, they rose up and overthrew Hitler.

Or not

/to be sure, there weren't any Nazis left in 1946, it's funny how they all just vanished, just like that


So, in 44 when the the wheels were coming off, the allies had demanded unconditional surrender and were howling about dismantling the German state forever, and the Russians were on the way, quite possibly to kill everyone, you would be trying to start a civil war?
 
2012-09-25 11:59:21 AM

chuckufarlie:

yes, you did say just that when you posted:

There are people in high leadership positions who ordered and oversaw mass killings living their golden years today without fear of retribution. There are military members who belong to the US and Israel who knowing massacred civilians and yet were given slaps on the wrist. There were many, many more genocides that happened after the holocaust that were ignored, and were allowed to happen because of the lack of political will. There were mass deportations and starvation of civilians during peacetime caused by Allied occupation that happened after the second world war.



Pointing out what we should go after leaders instead of willfully ignoring them, to stop injustice before it happens, and to stop committing atrocities ourselves counts as letting things slide now?

Is it opposite day in your timezone?
 
2012-09-25 12:03:38 PM
super_grass


Smartest
Funniest

2012-09-25 11:59:21 AM

chuckufarlie:

yes, you did say just that when you posted:

There are people in high leadership positions who ordered and oversaw mass killings living their golden years today without fear of retribution. There are military members who belong to the US and Israel who knowing massacred civilians and yet were given slaps on the wrist. There were many, many more genocides that happened after the holocaust that were ignored, and were allowed to happen because of the lack of political will. There were mass deportations and starvation of civilians during peacetime caused by Allied occupation that happened after the second world war.



Pointing out what we should go after leaders instead of willfully ignoring them, to stop injustice before it happens, and to stop committing atrocities ourselves counts as letting things slide now?

Is it opposite day in your timezone?

no yes no

damn this opposite day!!! i don't know how to say it!!
 
2012-09-25 12:04:34 PM

Amos Quito: loki see loki do: He cites the case of Ivan (John) Demjanjuk. FFS, he was found not guilty by the Israelis, then tried as a supposedly completely different guard in Germany.

Seems awful fishy.


It's all about spiteful vengeance.

Once these bastards sink their teeth in, they NEVER let go. Guilt or innocence of an individual is irrelevant. They're getting their kicks by making SOMEONE suffer for their COLLECTIVE suffering.


Other than using this thread to slander Jews, what's your point? Should this man not stand trial?

Come see the Joos persecuting the poor Arabs in Jerusalem!
realjerusalemstreets.files.wordpress.com
Oh, they're just shopping. Well let's take to the streets and see the real horrors!
realjerusalemstreets.files.wordpress.com
The horror, the horror.

Meh. I posted these because I couldn't find a suitable 'yawn' or 'rolleyes' pic.
 
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