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(Discover)   Male scientists show bias toward hiring men over women. You know who else shows bias towards hiring men? Female scientists   (blogs.discovermagazine.com) divider line 19
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1597 clicks; posted to Geek » on 25 Sep 2012 at 5:16 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-25 07:13:26 PM
3 votes:
blogs.discovermagazine.com

Wow, that's a huge diff... Your axis starts at 25k and extends to 31k? I wonder what happens if we extend and scale to give an accurate idea of the difference between the tw- oh.

www.neoterrastudios.com

/Not saying it's right or acceptable
//I just really hate visually misleading graphs
2012-09-26 05:06:31 AM
1 votes:

Ambitwistor: On-Off: and today, there are a lot more, because almost any women who want one get one.
Maybe people start to notice that a female Dr from less than 20 years ago shouldn't be taken to seriously.

What, because there are more female PhDs? Seriously? And do you think it's any easier for a woman to get a PhD than a man?


well, in Germany, in science, up to the "Diplom", it is the same. When you want to make a "Doctorarbeit", you have to be among the best if you are male. If you are female, you always find a place. We already have anti-male bias.
2012-09-25 05:16:59 PM
1 votes:

DeaH: Fair question. Let me reply with another question, do you not hire someone like Neil deGrasse Tyson because the guys like to sit around telling racist jokes?


Neil would probably respond by making a gesture with both hands and implying sarcastically that the person making the joke is of an intimidating character and should be avoided.
2012-09-25 01:59:47 PM
1 votes:

GF named my left testicle thundercles: a large number of women have floating through their lives on the wave of affirmative action in the sciences with the buoyancy of their tits. One example, is a girl i got put into a group with. she did nothing for 2 months while the men did all of the work. she specifically chose her senior design group to be men that wouldn't care if she did nothing. She got a job with Boeing as a freshman for going to a society of women engineers meeting. She has her rent paid for by her boyfriend. She has a pussy whipped nice guy make her breakfast every morning. its really sad and i have zero respect for her because she uses her gender as a replacement for merit.


[Man acts like a tard in the lab]: "Wow, that guy is a total tard!"
[Woman acts like a tard in the lab]: "Wow, women are total tards!"
2012-09-25 01:40:31 PM
1 votes:

macil22: And men cannot get hired as preschool teachers, hard time getting hired as elementary school teachers, hard time getting hired at dental hygienists, hard time getting positions as clerks/secretaries, will never get hired as a babysitter or housekeeper, you will be discriminated against and restricted if you are a male nurse....

No one cares about most of those jobs because they lack prestige and high pay but they are applicable to a much larger % of the population than being a scientist. If you are an average person and want to seek a job that has a good work/life balance then you have a great advantage being a woman.

It is not that I don't care about women being discriminated against in the some fields but all I can do is shrug. Yeah it sucks but it also annoys me when it only seems to be discussed from the perspective of women being discriminated against. Women now dominate the majority of majors in college, including medicine and I think even law. Men only dominate in computer science, engineering and maybe physics and chemistry. A women going into one of those fields has a better chance of receiving financial aid and scholarship opportunities. Fields traditionally dominated by women are asked to do nothing to attract men.

When all the focus is on the tip top of the pyramid then it appears that men do so much better and maybe in terms of raw earnings but even at the bottom and middle they tend to be jobs with unforgiving hours and physical labor.


Where on earth did you hear that? Elementary schools are going out of their way to try to hire male teachers. They have a hard time getting men because the pay level is so low for education-level required for the job.
2012-09-25 01:20:57 PM
1 votes:
a large number of women have floating through their lives on the wave of affirmative action in the sciences with the buoyancy of their tits. One example, is a girl i got put into a group with. she did nothing for 2 months while the men did all of the work. she specifically chose her senior design group to be men that wouldn't care if she did nothing. She got a job with Boeing as a freshman for going to a society of women engineers meeting. She has her rent paid for by her boyfriend. She has a pussy whipped nice guy make her breakfast every morning. its really sad and i have zero respect for her because she uses her gender as a replacement for merit.
2012-09-25 11:34:25 AM
1 votes:

Subtle_Canary:

so wait, despite all the news that women are completing science and math based courses in far greater numbers than men, somehow the status quo of men maintaining the hiring procedure is still possible? id imagine that at a certain point they would be forced to hire women since the pool of candidates is supposedly in their favor by a larger degree.


[Citation needed]

More women are going to college. They are NOT going into science and math. STEM majors still have something like a 9:1 male; female ratio.
2012-09-25 10:58:50 AM
1 votes:

DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: However, it's always more males than females hired thus far, though I've fought against it. Something about research alignment or paper impact is used as the reason.


In the last three faculty hires I've witnessed in my department, I saw the department use the same tactic. A white male was chosen as the top candidate (not surprising, since the field is absolutely dominated by white males). Then they leverage a second hire by choosing a woman as the runner-up candidate, and the position is paid for through a university fund designed to increase the diversity of the faculty.

I sometimes wonder if this kind of tactic has the unintended consequence of pigeon-holing the female candidates in perpetual 2nd-place status, even if they are the top candidate by any objective measure, purely as a means to leverage the university into hiring two people instead of one.
2012-09-25 10:42:42 AM
1 votes:

the_geek: When my daughter was born I used two weeks of my own vacation time. In the U.S. only one parent gets 'maternity leave.' 99.99999% of the time this is the woman. The only real exception is if the woman dies during childbirth, is in jail, or is somehow otherwise unable to care for the child.

So I don't know where you come from, but here the system itself is sexist because it conveys benefits to women that are not given to men.


The US basically has the worst maternity system in the world. Federally you have zero guaranteed weeks of mat leave.

thinkprogress.org 

Seriously, farking Pakistan gives you more guaranteed time off to have a child.
2012-09-25 10:21:55 AM
1 votes:
i6.photobucket.com

Discuss.
2012-09-25 10:00:25 AM
1 votes:

the_geek: DO NOT WANT Poster Girl: Oh for Fark's sake. First, that paragraph up there is sexist bullcrap. You assume a woman will get pregnant just because she's female. Second, men with kids get parental leave too. Are you going to screen guys who might procreate? Third, how any career scientists are going to, say, get a phd then bail because she had a baby? Pretty low percentage, there.

When my daughter was born I used two weeks of my own vacation time. In the U.S. only one parent gets 'maternity leave.' 99.99999% of the time this is the woman. The only real exception is if the woman dies during childbirth, is in jail, or is somehow otherwise unable to care for the child.

So I don't know where you come from, but here the system itself is sexist because it conveys benefits to women that are not given to men.


In the U.S., both men and women qualify for Parental Leave under the Family Leave Act. It's just that the leave is unfunded - most companies do not offer paid maternity leave. Typically, women will use vacation to cover as much time as possible, but most of the leave is unpaid. If fathers took leave at the same time, the family income would be zero. That is why fathers seldom use their parental leave.
2012-09-25 09:22:18 AM
1 votes:

Subtle_Canary: doglover: Women are chased out of science and engineering by the culture. It's a boys' club of insufferable pricks, and only people who like boys' clubs full of insufferable pricks advance in the field. Once you're far enough in to be hiring people, male or female, you're used to the status quo and seek to maintain it. So they set up a NEW boys' club full of insufferable pricks.

If we could blow the lid off math and learn to make it appealing to the same people who currently avoid it but are smart enough to do it, we could get a change of the guard and get some stereotypically non-scientific types in the field. Even Feynman was kind of square. We need some creative people in the field to come up with new things to investigate and generally let the pompous hot air out.

so wait, despite all the news that women are completing science and math based courses in far greater numbers than men, somehow the status quo of men maintaining the hiring procedure is still possible? id imagine that at a certain point they would be forced to hire women since the pool of candidates is supposedly in their favor by a larger degree.


Unless women are completing math and science degrees at a 5:1 ratio compared to men, do not expect to see any type of fast change in the field. For just about any academic, positions are few and applicants are many. The most interesting thing about this test is the fact that the applications were designed with the exact same credentials and experience. Exactly the same. And, still, the "women" applicants were graded as being significantly less hirable.

This reminds me of something that happened in the field of classical music. Women used to be hired a lot less often for orchestras. The general feeling was that men were just better musician. During auditions, it was clear that men just sounded better. It didn't matter if women were also judging the auditions. Women also thought men sounded better. Then some orchestras instituted blind auditions. Musicians auditioned behind a screen. Lo and behold, women started to "sound" better.
2012-09-25 08:58:51 AM
1 votes:

Sheseala: Math mostly isn't hard at all, there's rules to remember, adhere to them and things turn out right. It's the reason why computers can do it easily.

As far as the article is concerned, I'd guess the women are thinking the applicants couldn't possibly be like themselves, because damnit they're so unique in the field.

I'd be curious to see how it breaks down by subject. In my experience, biologists were mostly female. It'd be weird to see them behaving the same way.


I studied anthropology and the women seemed to gravitate more towards cultural anthropology and primatology and the males went for physical anthropology. I know I gravitated towards physical anthropology simply because I didn't think I could handle cultural anthropology without becoming an alcoholic and there just wouldn't be that many local opportunities for a primatologist.

And yet somehow I ended up drawing tentacle porn for a living. Go figure.
2012-09-25 08:58:26 AM
1 votes:
Girl Genius says:
i224.photobucket.com
2012-09-25 08:44:21 AM
1 votes:

dready zim: Of course there are women who are good at science but on average men are better at science than women, similar to the way that, on average women are smarter than men but men are the smartest.


Even if that were true, it doesn't explain the results of the study. Identical credentials were given higher priority when they were attached to a man's name rather than a woman's name.
2012-09-25 08:28:55 AM
1 votes:
Math mostly isn't hard at all, there's rules to remember, adhere to them and things turn out right. It's the reason why computers can do it easily.

As far as the article is concerned, I'd guess the women are thinking the applicants couldn't possibly be like themselves, because damnit they're so unique in the field.

I'd be curious to see how it breaks down by subject. In my experience, biologists were mostly female. It'd be weird to see them behaving the same way.
2012-09-25 06:11:56 AM
1 votes:

untaken_name: It's only because men are better at science than women.


Came to say this. Of course there are women who are good at science but on average men are better at science than women, similar to the way that, on average women are smarter than men but men are the smartest.

robohobo: Men won't get knocked up and need to take maternity leave during studies and such.


Also this can be a factor in hiring without the hirer avoiding hiring based on sexism, if the candidate was a man who said "There is a 10% chance that in the next 5 years I will need at least 6 months off work and may not come back afterwards" then that would affect their chances of being hired without being sexist. You want equality in hiring? give the employer the same candidate as if you were a man. You can`t say that people picking the best business choice is sexist, it`s simply good business. Female hirers are more aware of this and act accordingly.

doglover: Women are chased out of science and engineering by the culture. It's a boys' club of insufferable pricks


Those `insufferable pricks` are the ones who actually make the discoveries. They are so insufferable only to people much less smart than them...

doglover: If we could blow the lid off math and learn to make it appealing to the same people who currently avoid it but are smart enough to do it


This is what average people say who think they are smart. Maths is hard. There is a reason you avoid it. It`s obvious you think you are smart enough to do proper maths yet you couldn`t do it so you blame a culture instead of the contents of your own head.
2012-09-25 06:03:55 AM
1 votes:

doglover: Women are chased out of science and engineering by the culture. It's a boys' club of insufferable pricks, and only people who like boys' clubs full of insufferable pricks advance in the field. Once you're far enough in to be hiring people, male or female, you're used to the status quo and seek to maintain it. So they set up a NEW boys' club full of insufferable pricks.

If we could blow the lid off math and learn to make it appealing to the same people who currently avoid it but are smart enough to do it, we could get a change of the guard and get some stereotypically non-scientific types in the field. Even Feynman was kind of square. We need some creative people in the field to come up with new things to investigate and generally let the pompous hot air out.


so wait, despite all the news that women are completing science and math based courses in far greater numbers than men, somehow the status quo of men maintaining the hiring procedure is still possible? id imagine that at a certain point they would be forced to hire women since the pool of candidates is supposedly in their favor by a larger degree.
2012-09-25 05:22:56 AM
1 votes:
Men won't get knocked up and need to take maternity leave during studies and such.

Also, since when can women be scientists?

/sandwich theory?
 
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