Ambivalence: feckingmorons: Ambivalence: Romney is either willfully ignorant or malevolent. Either disqualifies him as president.

Wow you got all that out of what he said about it on 60 Minutes, which I excerpted above.

I agree with what you say about ER's but I don't think that his position was fully articulated on that show. Heck, if someone asks him and he says send the poor to the ER, I'll vote for Obama.

No, not just from that one line. The entire part is like that. It's almost like they require you to be a selfish, greedy, uncaring asshole to be a republican. I don't understand why those are desirable traits for someone in government.

Because TeH Darks are take all thier monies!!!!

DUH!

Ambivalence: feckingmorons: Ambivalence: Romney is either willfully ignorant or malevolent. Either disqualifies him as president.

Wow you got all that out of what he said about it on 60 Minutes, which I excerpted above.

I agree with what you say about ER's but I don't think that his position was fully articulated on that show. Heck, if someone asks him and he says send the poor to the ER, I'll vote for Obama.

No, not just from that one line. The entire part is like that. It's almost like they require you to be a selfish, greedy, uncaring asshole to be a republican. I don't understand why those are desirable traits for someone in government.

How was Mittens not supposed to turn out a selfish, uncaring asshole? Guy didn't pay a bill on his own until well after grad school.

People seem to forget that ER's are supposed to be for FARKING EMERGENCIES. Life threatening, I'm-gonna-die-soon scenarios.

I just had someone at my house yesterday who was planning on going to to the ER because... her new tattoo was infected. Really? You don't think that might be a good time to just stop by some Immediacare center or a GP or something? Or just farking wipe some isopropyl on it?

Yeah, having all the uninsured use Emergency Rooms is a majorly inefficient system. You can be for/against a more socialized model but still realize this is a dumb idea any way you slice it.

stoli n coke: Ambivalence: feckingmorons: Ambivalence: Romney is either willfully ignorant or malevolent. Either disqualifies him as president.

Wow you got all that out of what he said about it on 60 Minutes, which I excerpted above.

I agree with what you say about ER's but I don't think that his position was fully articulated on that show. Heck, if someone asks him and he says send the poor to the ER, I'll vote for Obama.

No, not just from that one line. The entire part is like that. It's almost like they require you to be a selfish, greedy, uncaring asshole to be a republican. I don't understand why those are desirable traits for someone in government.

How was Mittens not supposed to turn out a selfish, uncaring asshole? Guy didn't pay Has probably never paid a bill on his own until well after grad school.

FTFY. Oh sure, it might have been with his money, but do you think he'd dirty his hands with that kind of paperwork,w hen there are perfectly good accountants?

Ambivalence: Emergency rooms should be for emergencies, not a dumping ground for the desperate and destitute. By design, emergency rooms are not a suitable replacement for primary care. you can't get chemo at an emergency room. You can't get routine fetal ultrasounds in an emergency room. You can't get your regular supply of insulin from an emergency room.

Romney is either willfully ignorant or malevolent. Either disqualifies him as president.

The last time I tried to use a free clinic, I was there for thirty hours. When my name was called, a Mexican jumped up and claimed he was me. And I have a Welsh surname! When I started to loudly protest, security came from out of nowhere and threw us both out. If I was carrying, I would've shot him dead, I was that mad.

For all my life, I've been dealing with higher education being out of my reach, lack of any kind of upward mobility, and paying the medical bills of relatives who didn't have health care either. Now this Republican asshole is telling me to go to ER rooms and put myself further into debt?

Hundreds of farking on countries here on Earth, most of them have health care, and I was born a citizen of the asshole of the world.

feckingmorons: Access to medical care is a right, free medical care not so much.

You clearly have no idea how many Americans will refuse treatment and die at home or work because they can't afford the bill if they seek treatment.

/we can do better than feckingmoron's plan for the USA

I may not be a doctor, but as a paramedic, I'm going to go right ahead and say "Fark you, Romney." Do you know how many patients I have that only call me after they have a perfectly avoidable condition evolve into a near deadly one because they didn't have ready access to preventative medicine? How many poor diabetics I care for after their unmanaged glucose levels go wacky? How many pregnant mothers without prenatal care I get calls for because they have normal spotting, but without said care don't know that and panic for need of someone to tell them what's wrong?

Do you even care?

eraser8: Maybe this country should have more urgent care centers. You know, places that aren't for genuine emergencies but will see you more quickly than you PCP.

I went to one. That why I'm in debt.

Isn't this pretty much exactly the reason that the USA spends more on healthcare per capita and gets one of the worst results among first world nations; people are encouraged to ignore symptoms until they reach a critical, emergency stage, instead of preventative care?

If Romney loses the doctor vote he's in even more trouble.

Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

feckingmorons: I don't think that his position was fully articulated on that show.

Well, then, perhaps you can point us all to the statement in which the candidate's position was fully articulated. I mean, he's been running for president seemingly since time immemorial, and the PPACA has been the law of the land for over two and a half years now. The candidate has made it clear that he would seek to repeal the PPACA. At some point he must certainly have fully articulated his position, no? Please, do school us all.

As it mentioned in the article, the problem emergency rooms face is not people using the emergency room for non-urgent care. Less than 10% of people who go to the emergency room are there for something that isn't an urgent medical need. The problem emergency rooms have is that they have to treat all those urgent cases, many of which they will not end up getting paid for, since the holes in the health care system are big and wide enough for many people, insured and not, to fall through. When the costs mount up enough, the emergency room closes down, which increases wait times at the next ER over.

And the problem for the patients, besides long waits and triage, of course, is that many times when they report to the ER with urgent symptoms, it's something that wouldn't have been urgent if they'd been able to see a doctor earlier. Mitt Romney's hypothetical dying man might not have been having a heart attack if he'd been able to get a checkup and some medicine. The ER is not a solution to any problem, medical or political, except "Where do we take this horribly sick or injured person."

My brother just had this on his Facebook a little while ago:


(Ignore the fact Ben Stein never said these things.)

My response was along the lines of:

I've never heard of free medical insurance. Can you elaborate? Do you mean people who will go to the ER as a last resort regardless of their ability to pay? Or do you mean programs like Medicaid that help people in poverty cover the costs of medical treatment? Or is there some program no one has ever heard of that allows immigrants to get "free insurance"? Because that sounds like some BS someone with a political agenda made up about "foreigners."

I say my response was along those lines because he deleted the post shortly thereafter.

MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

People using the ER without insurance, cost the hospital money. They respond by raising the prices for patients who can actually pay their bills.

i_got_no_strings: As it mentioned in the article, the problem emergency rooms face is not people using the emergency room for non-urgent care. Less than 10% of people who go to the emergency room are there for something that isn't an urgent medical need. The problem emergency rooms have is that they have to treat all those urgent cases, many of which they will not end up getting paid for, since the holes in the health care system are big and wide enough for many people, insured and not, to fall through. When the costs mount up enough, the emergency room closes down, which increases wait times at the next ER over.

And the problem for the patients, besides long waits and triage, of course, is that many times when they report to the ER with urgent symptoms, it's something that wouldn't have been urgent if they'd been able to see a doctor earlier. Mitt Romney's hypothetical dying man might not have been having a heart attack if he'd been able to get a checkup and some medicine. The ER is not a solution to any problem, medical or political, except "Where do we take this horribly sick or injured person."

Your argument is meaningless without an analysis of the number of cases that would not have required emergency care if they had been treated before they got to a life-threatening stage.

LordJiro: MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

People using the ER without insurance, cost the hospital money. They respond by raising the prices for patients who can actually pay their bills.

They respond by raising the prices on the uninsured and deducting the losses. How else can you explain charging an uninsured person 10k per night in a non-emergency hospital bed. Or charging 8k for an ambulance ride for 100 miles. They don't expect to get paid, they write that shiat off.

feckingmorons:
Access to medical care is a right, free medical care not so much.

Not so much. If the patient is a conservative, they should be kicked to the curb or ground up into mulch for fertilizer if they do not have the means to pay for their care. Live by the sword, die by the sword.

Any advances in the science made by people who were in the lower 99% economic strata should be kept from them because they fervently believe that education should only be provided for those able to pay directly for that education.

That is why all conservative Christians should be provided leaches to cure all their ills. And the crowds should laugh at them as they take their last breath.  Don't worry, I feel the same about any conservative religious group.

eraser8: ReverendJasen: I just had someone at my house yesterday who was planning on going to to the ER because... her new tattoo was infected. Really? You don't think that might be a good time to just stop by some Immediacare center or a GP or something? Or just farking wipe some isopropyl on it?

Maybe this country should have more urgent care centers. You know, places that aren't for genuine emergencies but will see you more quickly than you PCP.

Last time I went to an urgent care center was back when I had insurance. I'd fallen down and scraped the hell out of my hand, gotten mulch and dirt and all sorts of nasty stuff under the skin that was left. I tried to clean it and almost passed out, so I figured a doctor better do it. No doctor would take me because I wasn't a regular patient, so I went to urgent care. A nurse gave me a shot of local anesthetic and spent five minutes or so cleaning and bandaging my hand. My cost after insurance was $250. I can't imagine going there and actually having something bad wrong with me.

/ouchie story

As someone who works in an Emergency Room, go fsck yourself, Romney. My day should be focused on taking care of the truly sick, not the people that come in with rashes and wellness visits because they couldn't get an appointment with their primary doctor THAT DAY.

Lenny_da_Hog: Better still, perhaps he can point us to something that shows Romney has a position. On anything.

That's not fair. Mitt Romney does indeed have one bedrock principle for which he will fight to the end, one unshakable philosophical position from which he will not waver. Mitt Romney is deeply, profoundly, and indubitably committed to the proposition that Mitt Romney is entitled to be president.

Lenny_da_Hog: BMulligan: feckingmorons: I don't think that his position was fully articulated on that show.

Well, then, perhaps you can point us all to the statement in which the candidate's position was fully articulated. I mean, he's been running for president seemingly since time immemorial, and the PPACA has been the law of the land for over two and a half years now. The candidate has made it clear that he would seek to repeal the PPACA. At some point he must certainly have fully articulated his position, no? Please, do school us all.

Better still, perhaps he can point us to something that shows Romney has a position. On anything.

Haven't you been watching the campaign? Rmoney's got more positions than Sasha Grey on NBA All-Star weekend.

BMulligan: Lenny_da_Hog: Better still, perhaps he can point us to something that shows Romney has a position. On anything.

That's not fair. Mitt Romney does indeed have one bedrock principle for which he will fight to the end, one unshakable philosophical position from which he will not waver. Mitt Romney is deeply, profoundly, and indubitably committed to the proposition that Mitt Romney is entitled to be president should pay even less in taxes.

FTFY. Although yours is equally true.

I would argue the biggest problems emergency rooms face are all the known malingerers and assorted frequent fliers, who routinely show up to try and get high on the ER's dime, and end up necessitating several thousand dollars of workup each time in order for the hospital/docs to stave off a lawsuit. When I was a med student on my ER rotation, I'd say easily 50% of the patients I saw were just looking to score some IV dilaudid, and did not care how many procedures or tests they had to endure in order to get it.

MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

They charge that to try and recoup the losses against the uninsured visitors by soaking the insurance companies. The solution is to pull out the middle man and just have the government provide for both emergent and primary care.

feckingmorons: ROMNEY: Well, we do provide care for people who don't have insurance, people -- we -- if someone has a heart attack, they don't sit in their apartment and -- and die. We -- we pick them up in an ambulance, and take them to the hospital, and give them care. And different states have different ways of providing for that care.

I love how people who can't afford health care naturally live in apartments. Romney is the epitome of why people are falling out of favor with the Republican party:

MrSplifferton: LordJiro: MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

People using the ER without insurance, cost the hospital money. They respond by raising the prices for patients who can actually pay their bills.

They respond by raising the prices on the uninsured and deducting the losses. How else can you explain charging an uninsured person 10k per night in a non-emergency hospital bed. Or charging 8k for an ambulance ride for 100 miles. They don't expect to get paid, they write that shiat off.

Read the article again - they don't "write it off", they go out of business.

MSFT: MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

They charge that to try and recoup the losses against the uninsured visitors by soaking the insurance companies. The solution is to pull out the middle man and just have the government provide for both emergent and primary care.

I get the feeling that if he were to pull off getting elected, Mitt's "repeal and replace" plan is to take the ACA, repeal it, then put his name on the cover page, where it will pass with almost unanimous Republican support.

Ambivalence: Emergency rooms should be for emergencies, not a dumping ground for the desperate and destitute. By design, emergency rooms are not a suitable replacement for primary care. you can't get chemo at an emergency room. You can't get routine fetal ultrasounds in an emergency room. You can't get your regular supply of insulin from an emergency room.

More than that, emergency rooms should be for emergencies only. We should have a clinic level of care to deal with things like when I slice my hand open: yes, I need to be seen soon, and stitched up, but I don't need to be seen RIGHT NOW.

/Over the course of my life I've been sent to emergency rooms by my primary care doctor at least si times to deal with things which weren't really emergencies.
//And my doctor is connected to one of the best hospitals in the country
///and they don't have any sort of clinic level of care.

starsrift: i_got_no_strings: As it mentioned in the article, the problem emergency rooms face is not people using the emergency room for non-urgent care. Less than 10% of people who go to the emergency room are there for something that isn't an urgent medical need. The problem emergency rooms have is that they have to treat all those urgent cases, many of which they will not end up getting paid for, since the holes in the health care system are big and wide enough for many people, insured and not, to fall through. When the costs mount up enough, the emergency room closes down, which increases wait times at the next ER over.

And the problem for the patients, besides long waits and triage, of course, is that many times when they report to the ER with urgent symptoms, it's something that wouldn't have been urgent if they'd been able to see a doctor earlier. Mitt Romney's hypothetical dying man might not have been having a heart attack if he'd been able to get a checkup and some medicine. The ER is not a solution to any problem, medical or political, except "Where do we take this horribly sick or injured person."

Your argument is meaningless without an analysis of the number of cases that would not have required emergency care if they had been treated before they got to a life-threatening stage.

It is? You know it happens. Poor people go only for emergencies. Clearly many things like heart attacks or certain cancers are treatable if caught early. Poor people don't go early.

MSFT: MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

They charge that to try and recoup the losses against the uninsured visitors by soaking the insurance companies. The solution is to pull out the middle man and just have the government provide for both emergent and primary care.

I agree with your solution, but they aren't charging insurance companies $500 for asprin, they are charging the uninsured that price. There is no way as hell that an insurance company would pay 10k per night in a hospital bed, but being uninsured that's what they billed me. Explain that to me, how they could charge that much money to an uninsured person.

MrSplifferton: I agree with your solution, but they aren't charging insurance companies $500 for asprin, they are charging the uninsured that price. There is no way as hell that an insurance company would pay 10k per night in a hospital bed, but being uninsured that's what they billed me. Explain that to me, how they could charge that much money to an uninsured person.

They bill the insurance company $500 and the insurance company calls up and says they'll pay $5. Eventually they settle on $50 a tablet and the hospital uses part of that to cover treatment for the uninsured.

That's how the HMO system "works".

MrSplifferton: MSFT: MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

They charge that to try and recoup the losses against the uninsured visitors by soaking the insurance companies. The solution is to pull out the middle man and just have the government provide for both emergent and primary care.

I agree with your solution, but they aren't charging insurance companies $500 for asprin, they are charging the uninsured that price. There is no way as hell that an insurance company would pay 10k per night in a hospital bed, but being uninsured that's what they billed me. Explain that to me, how they could charge that much money to an uninsured person.

Show me where they charge different rates for different payment methods.

MSFT: MrSplifferton: LordJiro: MrSplifferton: Can none of you read?? TFA says that only 8% of people are there for non-emergencies which means most people there are for legitimate reasons. The problem is uninsured causing huge costs to them, which is bullshiat when they charge $500 for a farkin' asprin.

People using the ER without insurance, cost the hospital money. They respond by raising the prices for patients who can actually pay their bills.

They respond by raising the prices on the uninsured and deducting the losses. How else can you explain charging an uninsured person 10k per night in a non-emergency hospital bed. Or charging 8k for an ambulance ride for 100 miles. They don't expect to get paid, they write that shiat off.

Read the article again - they don't "write it off", they go out of business.

They go out of business when their scheme hits the tipping point. You think those ER's are privately owned? They aren't profitable so the parent company pulls the plug. Poor ER doctors, sure, poor Corporation owning multiple ER's and deciding to cut unprofitable ones not so much.