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(Slate)   Anti-circumcision Amazon reviewers tipped off about book on AIDS, cut in with attacks on the author, having only read snippets of the book. You have been fore-warned   (slate.com) divider line 156
    More: Asinine, aides, Amazon, circumcisions, Daniel Halperin, Fresh Air, Penguin Press, AIDS epidemic, sexual function  
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4894 clicks; posted to Main » on 25 Sep 2012 at 3:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-24 09:53:00 PM
Bunch of hoods.
 
2012-09-24 09:54:32 PM
Meh. No skin off my... nose.
 
2012-09-24 09:56:23 PM
Making a mountain out of a mohel again
 
2012-09-24 09:56:42 PM
Sounds like those reviewers didn't have any skin in the game.
 
2012-09-24 10:03:38 PM
I really don't get why people are so farking pissed about circumcision. I mean, my dick got chopped, and I give zero farks about it. I don't feel mutilated or betrayed or anything like that. Plus there's evidence that suggests the author is right, that circumcision does reduce AIDS transmission. So why do people get so mad about it?
 
2012-09-24 10:19:56 PM

GAT_00: I really don't get why people are so farking pissed about circumcision. I mean, my dick got chopped, and I give zero farks about it. I don't feel mutilated or betrayed or anything like that. Plus there's evidence that suggests the author is right, that circumcision does reduce AIDS transmission. So why do people get so mad about it?


Because it's an unnecessary procedure that carries risk of damaging the penis? Because it reduces sensation? Because it's performed on infants who, when older, should be able to make the decision to undergo the procedure?

/circumcised, would have preferred not
 
2012-09-24 10:34:12 PM

RodneyToady: GAT_00: I really don't get why people are so farking pissed about circumcision. I mean, my dick got chopped, and I give zero farks about it. I don't feel mutilated or betrayed or anything like that. Plus there's evidence that suggests the author is right, that circumcision does reduce AIDS transmission. So why do people get so mad about it?

Because it's an unnecessary procedure that carries risk of damaging the penis? Because it reduces sensation? Because it's performed on infants who, when older, should be able to make the decision to undergo the procedure?

/circumcised, would have preferred not


So any medical procedure performed on children shouldn't be done because there are risks?
 
2012-09-24 10:35:32 PM
Some people just need to have something to make a flap over
 
2012-09-24 10:44:39 PM

GAT_00: So any medical procedure performed on children shouldn't be done because there are risks?


If the procedure is cosmetic, and not correcting a defect, and can wait until the child is older and can make the decision on his own, it shouldn't be done. It's taking infant boys with normal penises, and performing surgery on them. The vast majority of the time, it's medically unnecessary.
 
2012-09-24 10:51:01 PM

RodneyToady: GAT_00: So any medical procedure performed on children shouldn't be done because there are risks?

If the procedure is cosmetic, and not correcting a defect, and can wait until the child is older and can make the decision on his own, it shouldn't be done. It's taking infant boys with normal penises, and performing surgery on them. The vast majority of the time, it's medically unnecessary.


So what about correcting cleft palates? Or any other countless cosmetic surgeries that are performed every day that aren't necessary, but somehow people don't pitch a farking fit about those. I think you feel somehow wronged for reasons passing understanding. Circumcision has legitimate medical use in reducing HIV and HPV transmission, as well as reducing more general infections like skin irritation and UTIs. It isn't something like female circumcision and I feel that male critics of male circumcision are somehow conflating the two. Get over it. If it's done in a medically sound way in a hospital by parents, you have no right to stop them, just like you have no right to stop any other surgery on a child with parental permission or an abortion.
 
2012-09-24 11:02:35 PM

GAT_00: So what about correcting cleft palates? Or any other countless cosmetic surgeries that are performed every day that aren't necessary, but somehow people don't pitch a farking fit about those. I think you feel somehow wronged for reasons passing understanding. Circumcision has legitimate medical use in reducing HIV and HPV transmission, as well as reducing more general infections like skin irritation and UTIs. It isn't something like female circumcision and I feel that male critics of male circumcision are somehow conflating the two. Get over it. If it's done in a medically sound way in a hospital by parents, you have no right to stop them, just like you have no right to stop any other surgery on a child with parental permission or an abortion.


Do you honestly not see the difference between correcting a cleft palate and performing a circumcision on normal, healthy penis?

If circumcision was that important of a medical thing, it would be impressed upon people pretty much the world over. It's not. It would be encouraged in the US in the way vaccines are encouraged. It's not. If it wasn't for the religious aspect, circumcision would likely be a rare procedure.
 
2012-09-24 11:05:35 PM

RodneyToady: If circumcision was that important of a medical thing, it would be impressed upon people pretty much the world over. It's not


Which would of course by why there's not a medical program to encourage circumcisions on the entire continent of Africa.
 
2012-09-24 11:11:46 PM

GAT_00: Which would of course by why there's not a medical program to encourage circumcisions on the entire continent of Africa.


Africa, collectively, has a host of problems qualitatively different than most of the rest of the world, and assuredly qualitatively different than the United States. Try comparing across more similar countries and areas, like Canada and Western Europe. And then look at China and India. And then get back to me on the importance of circumcision across pretty much the rest of the world.
 
2012-09-24 11:13:12 PM

RodneyToady: GAT_00: Which would of course by why there's not a medical program to encourage circumcisions on the entire continent of Africa.

Africa, collectively, has a host of problems qualitatively different than most of the rest of the world, and assuredly qualitatively different than the United States. Try comparing across more similar countries and areas, like Canada and Western Europe. And then look at China and India. And then get back to me on the importance of circumcision across pretty much the rest of the world.


So you're just going to ignore any medical arguments in favor of circumcision, because you don't like them, while making medical arguments about why it shouldn't be legal.

Let's see how seriously I take that.
 
2012-09-24 11:34:14 PM

GAT_00: So you're just going to ignore any medical arguments in favor of circumcision, because you don't like them, while making medical arguments about why it shouldn't be legal.

Let's see how seriously I take that.



You brought up Africa as if it was symbolic of the rest of the world. I mentioned other areas and countries that are either a) similar in circumstance, socioeconomically and medically speaking, to the United States, or b) in the cases of China and India, comprise roughly a third of the world's population, and how they do not consider circumcision to be medically necessary. That to me suggests the global medical establishment, as a whole, do not consider circumcision to be medically mandatory.

I also didn't say it should be illegal per se, just that it should be delayed until the boy is old enough to decide for himself, unless there is a medical necessity to perform it (e.g., foreskin issues, etc).
 
2012-09-24 11:47:43 PM
I brought enough popcorn for all who want.


/this thread should be good
 
2012-09-24 11:53:40 PM
This went green? Minchia...

Well, have fun swordfighting, people. I'm likely offline until 10 pm Eastern tomorrow, by which point this thread will probably be well past its climax.
 
2012-09-25 12:05:50 AM
Save the tip for stem cells so you can grow a bigger wang.
 
2012-09-25 12:11:14 AM

SilentStrider: I brought enough popcorn for all who want.

/this thread should be good


My thoughts even before clicking here. AIDS and circumcision both in one thread??? Only adding tipping, children in bars and beer snobs could make it more flameworthy.

Things are already off to a lively start.
 
2012-09-25 12:14:14 AM

fusillade762: SilentStrider: I brought enough popcorn for all who want.

/this thread should be good

My thoughts even before clicking here. AIDS and circumcision both in one thread??? Only adding tipping, children in bars and beer snobs could make it more flameworthy.

Things are already off to a lively start.


Arguably, tipping is already covered
 
2012-09-25 12:18:57 AM
Wow, lots of debate already. Looks like some are missing the point.
 
2012-09-25 12:20:02 AM

RodneyToady: GAT_00: So any medical procedure performed on children shouldn't be done because there are risks?

If the procedure is cosmetic, and not correcting a defect, and can wait until the child is older and can make the decision on his own, it shouldn't be done. It's taking infant boys with normal penises, and performing surgery on them. The vast majority of the time, it's medically unnecessary.


I have never heard anyone refer to circumcision as "cosmetic". It's done for preventative reasons. You can argue it's not neccessary, by and large, but it's not skins are being chopped for no reason.
 
2012-09-25 12:23:10 AM

RodneyToady: If circumcision was that important of a medical thing, it would be impressed upon people pretty much the world over. It's not. It would be encouraged in the US in the way vaccines are encouraged. It's not. If it wasn't for the religious aspect, circumcision would likely be a rare procedure.


Actually circumcision is routine done in the US independant of religion. If a parent doesn't want it done to their child, they can opt out, but to imply that it's ONLY done for religious reasons in the U.S. is incorrect.
 
2012-09-25 12:23:38 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: fusillade762: SilentStrider: I brought enough popcorn for all who want.

/this thread should be good

My thoughts even before clicking here. AIDS and circumcision both in one thread??? Only adding tipping, children in bars and beer snobs could make it more flameworthy.

Things are already off to a lively start.

Arguably, tipping is already covered


I was trying to work in a joke but couldn't think of anything. Figured I'd let someone else do it.
 
2012-09-25 12:27:43 AM
I was circumsized.
 
I often think about all the pulsing nerve endings that were trimmed from what is already a vivacious and vibrant penis.  The extra sensations I could have had as I fulfilled my legacy of plowboy.
 
And then I step back, take a deep breath and thank Yahweh for keeping me out of the two-pump chump and make your own cheese farmer school.
 
CONTROVERSY!
 
2012-09-25 12:32:53 AM
All we need is a tipping (gratuity, heh) and bicycle hate thread to complete the trifecta. C'mon, mods. Do it!
 
2012-09-25 01:35:31 AM

brap: I was circumsized.
 
I often think about all the pulsing nerve endings that were trimmed from what is already a vivacious and vibrant penis.  The extra sensations I could have had as I fulfilled my legacy of plowboy.
 
And then I step back, take a deep breath and thank Yahweh for keeping me out of the two-pump chump and make your own cheese farmer school.
 
CONTROVERSY!


So was I. It works and feels fine. So I really don't care if people here think of me as some mutilated freak or just normal. It's a penis for christ sake not some holy relic. I'm not going to spend any of my life worrying about losing a little bit of skin and whether it made sex better or worse. I'm usually just happy to be in something besides the palm of my hand...
 
2012-09-25 01:38:14 AM
oh and ...
t1.gstatic.com
 
2012-09-25 03:42:18 AM
Kellogg did it in this country to stop MASTURBATION. That was it.. Before that point it was not done in this country.

/Keep believing the quack science then....
// dont believe me look it up!
 
2012-09-25 03:45:12 AM
I'm happy with my snipped penis. When your date is your right hand for the 3rd week in a row, it's not really important whether or not I think there might have been an extra smidgen of pleasure to be felt if my foreskin was still intact.
 
2012-09-25 03:45:55 AM
In this thread, men who were circumcised as children who are apparently unaware of the phrase "the grass is greener on the other side". By which I mean that you think your sex lives would be improved if you weren't circumcised, but if you weren't circumcised, you'd have nothing to blame your lousy sexual performances and "lack of satisfaction" on.
 
2012-09-25 03:51:39 AM

GAT_00: I really don't get why people are so farking pissed about circumcision. I mean, my dick got chopped, and I give zero farks about it. I don't feel mutilated or betrayed or anything like that. Plus there's evidence that suggests the author is right, that circumcision does reduce AIDS transmission. So why do people get so mad about it?


You really are stupid sometimes, you know that?
 
2012-09-25 03:54:55 AM
I, for one, am glad to have a smooth head. All the ladies I have been with have enjoyed it. And, a few of them said that they hated performing oral on someone who was not circumcised.

As for performing it on infants, if the little farkers do not want it then they should learn to speak up a hell of a lot earlier than they normally do. What a bunch of lazy brats.
 
2012-09-25 03:55:01 AM

GAT_00: RodneyToady: GAT_00: So any medical procedure performed on children shouldn't be done because there are risks?

If the procedure is cosmetic, and not correcting a defect, and can wait until the child is older and can make the decision on his own, it shouldn't be done. It's taking infant boys with normal penises, and performing surgery on them. The vast majority of the time, it's medically unnecessary.

So what about correcting cleft palates? Or any other countless cosmetic surgeries that are performed every day that aren't necessary, but somehow people don't pitch a farking fit about those. I think you feel somehow wronged for reasons passing understanding. Circumcision has legitimate medical use in reducing HIV and HPV transmission, as well as reducing more general infections like skin irritation and UTIs. It isn't something like female circumcision and I feel that male critics of male circumcision are somehow conflating the two. Get over it. If it's done in a medically sound way in a hospital by parents, you have no right to stop them, just like you have no right to stop any other surgery on a child with parental permission or an abortion.


So perhaps we should just start cutting out every kid's appendix and removing their tonsils and adenoids when they're born too.

The idea is that to some men, circumcision is tantamount to genital mutilation. There would be an absolute UPROAR if we started performing clitoral circumcision on women....its no different than doing it on men.

/cut, but would have chosen otherwise....if I would have had the choice.
 
2012-09-25 03:56:29 AM

MaudlinMutantMollusk: fusillade762: SilentStrider: I brought enough popcorn for all who want.

/this thread should be good

My thoughts even before clicking here. AIDS and circumcision both in one thread??? Only adding tipping, children in bars and beer snobs could make it more flameworthy.

Things are already off to a lively start.

Arguably, tipping is already covered


But how much should we tip? 15% 20% We need a few hot waitresses in this discussion to help us with this one.
 
2012-09-25 03:59:38 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: GAT_00: RodneyToady: GAT_00: So any medical procedure performed on children shouldn't be done because there are risks?

If the procedure is cosmetic, and not correcting a defect, and can wait until the child is older and can make the decision on his own, it shouldn't be done. It's taking infant boys with normal penises, and performing surgery on them. The vast majority of the time, it's medically unnecessary.

So what about correcting cleft palates? Or any other countless cosmetic surgeries that are performed every day that aren't necessary, but somehow people don't pitch a farking fit about those. I think you feel somehow wronged for reasons passing understanding. Circumcision has legitimate medical use in reducing HIV and HPV transmission, as well as reducing more general infections like skin irritation and UTIs. It isn't something like female circumcision and I feel that male critics of male circumcision are somehow conflating the two. Get over it. If it's done in a medically sound way in a hospital by parents, you have no right to stop them, just like you have no right to stop any other surgery on a child with parental permission or an abortion.

So perhaps we should just start cutting out every kid's appendix and removing their tonsils and adenoids when they're born too.

The idea is that to some men, circumcision is tantamount to genital mutilation. There would be an absolute UPROAR if we started performing clitoral circumcision on women....its no different than doing it on men.

/cut, but would have chosen otherwise....if I would have had the choice.


Then go get it reversed. Or, restore it.  And if you are really upset about it, go punch your parents in their respective crotches. :-D
 
2012-09-25 04:00:33 AM
" [Bush] administration insisted on abstinence as a major method of HIV prevention instead of more realistic measures."

So not having sex with someone infected with AIDS is an unrealistic way of preventing the spread of said AIDS? Wow...

I'm not putting my faith in a condom to protect me while having sex with an infected person.... But, I suppose if my Fireman's Helmet was still covered, I'd be okay to go bareback then...

/cue "Everyone Has AIDS" musical number
 
2012-09-25 04:01:13 AM
in before the mention of that dubious african circumcision study with the tiny sample size done by the israeli university.
 
2012-09-25 04:01:17 AM

gadian: In this thread, men who were circumcised as children who are apparently unaware of the phrase "the grass is greener on the other side". By which I mean that you think your sex lives would be improved if you weren't circumcised, but if you weren't circumcised, you'd have nothing to blame your lousy sexual performances and "lack of satisfaction" on.


If that's what you think it's about, then you're misinformed.

It's not about a lack of satisfaction, its about cutting off part of a little boy's penis for no reason at all except tradition.

It DOES rob him of some sexual pleasure in the future though, to be medically factual. To just arbitrarily cut off a part of an intact, healthy organ that will reduce the pleasure he will receive during sex is barbaric IMO as a medical professional.

Most circumcised men "function" just fine...its the ethics of the matter that everyone is discussing.
 
2012-09-25 04:03:40 AM

Satanus Maximus: " [Bush] administration insisted on abstinence as a major method of HIV prevention instead of more realistic measures."

So not having sex with someone infected with AIDS is an unrealistic way of preventing the spread of said AIDS? Wow...

I'm not putting my faith in a condom to protect me while having sex with an infected person.... But, I suppose if my Fireman's Helmet was still covered, I'd be okay to go bareback then...

/cue "Everyone Has AIDS" musical number


Not sure if trolling or just farking retarded.
 
2012-09-25 04:04:40 AM

Mock26: I, for one, am glad to have a smooth head. All the ladies I have been with have enjoyed it. And, a few of them said that they hated performing oral on someone who was not circumcised.

As for performing it on infants, if the little farkers do not want it then they should learn to speak up a hell of a lot earlier than they normally do. What a bunch of lazy brats.


how about we just start cutting off everyone's pinky finger too while we're at it. Its not like it's really useful for anything, and people that will go on to play the piano will learn to compensate for the missing finger.

Same thing.
 
2012-09-25 04:05:20 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: gadian: In this thread, men who were circumcised as children who are apparently unaware of the phrase "the grass is greener on the other side". By which I mean that you think your sex lives would be improved if you weren't circumcised, but if you weren't circumcised, you'd have nothing to blame your lousy sexual performances and "lack of satisfaction" on.

If that's what you think it's about, then you're misinformed.

It's not about a lack of satisfaction, its about cutting off part of a little boy's penis for no reason at all except tradition.

It DOES rob him of some sexual pleasure in the future though, to be medically factual. To just arbitrarily cut off a part of an intact, healthy organ that will reduce the pleasure he will receive during sex is barbaric IMO as a medical professional.

Most circumcised men "function" just fine...its the ethics of the matter that everyone is discussing.


No more barbaric than someone having sex for pleasure. Sex is for procreation, not recreation!

/Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha! I could not even keep a straight face while typing that.
 
2012-09-25 04:07:51 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: Mock26: I, for one, am glad to have a smooth head. All the ladies I have been with have enjoyed it. And, a few of them said that they hated performing oral on someone who was not circumcised.

As for performing it on infants, if the little farkers do not want it then they should learn to speak up a hell of a lot earlier than they normally do. What a bunch of lazy brats.

how about we just start cutting off everyone's pinky finger too while we're at it. Its not like it's really useful for anything, and people that will go on to play the piano will learn to compensate for the missing finger.

Same thing.


You might want to take your humor meter in for a check up. It seems to be broken. Personally, I thought the part of about infants being lazy for not yet being able to talk (at the assumed age of several weeks or months, when circumcisions are normally performed) would have been a dead give away. And if not, then certainly mocking an infant for not yet being able to speak should have clued you in to the joke.
 
2012-09-25 04:07:51 AM

RodneyToady: Because it's an unnecessary procedure that carries risk of damaging the penis? Because it reduces sensation? Because it's performed on infants who, when older, should be able to make the decision to undergo the procedure?


FTFA: "Although tens of thousands of men who were circumcised as adults and were studied in several large-scale clinical trials (and in a Slate series) reported no loss-and in many cases an increase-in sexual pleasure and function"
 
2012-09-25 04:08:29 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: GAT_00: RodneyToady: GAT_00: So any medical procedure performed on children shouldn't be done because there are risks?

If the procedure is cosmetic, and not correcting a defect, and can wait until the child is older and can make the decision on his own, it shouldn't be done. It's taking infant boys with normal penises, and performing surgery on them. The vast majority of the time, it's medically unnecessary.

So what about correcting cleft palates? Or any other countless cosmetic surgeries that are performed every day that aren't necessary, but somehow people don't pitch a farking fit about those. I think you feel somehow wronged for reasons passing understanding. Circumcision has legitimate medical use in reducing HIV and HPV transmission, as well as reducing more general infections like skin irritation and UTIs. It isn't something like female circumcision and I feel that male critics of male circumcision are somehow conflating the two. Get over it. If it's done in a medically sound way in a hospital by parents, you have no right to stop them, just like you have no right to stop any other surgery on a child with parental permission or an abortion.

So perhaps we should just start cutting out every kid's appendix and removing their tonsils and adenoids when they're born too.

The idea is that to some men, circumcision is tantamount to genital mutilation. There would be an absolute UPROAR if we started performing clitoral circumcision on women....its no different than doing it on men.

/cut, but would have chosen otherwise....if I would have had the choice.


Y'know, except for the adults who go through it and report no loss of sensation

And the science showing all the health reasons for removing it

And the fact that the equivalent of female circumcision would be chopping off 70% of the penis, not a tiny bit of skin

But yeah, except for those things, there's no reason to ever remove a foreskin and doing so is evil.
 
2012-09-25 04:08:37 AM
i'm snipped. you know you want to see my weiner!
 
2012-09-25 04:08:59 AM

Mock26:
No more barbaric than someone having sex for pleasure.


Only if ure doing it right.
 
2012-09-25 04:09:16 AM

The more you eat the more you fart: It DOES rob him of some sexual pleasure in the future though, to be medically factual.


img.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-25 04:10:07 AM

Mock26: The more you eat the more you fart: Mock26: I, for one, am glad to have a smooth head. All the ladies I have been with have enjoyed it. And, a few of them said that they hated performing oral on someone who was not circumcised.

As for performing it on infants, if the little farkers do not want it then they should learn to speak up a hell of a lot earlier than they normally do. What a bunch of lazy brats.

how about we just start cutting off everyone's pinky finger too while we're at it. Its not like it's really useful for anything, and people that will go on to play the piano will learn to compensate for the missing finger.

Same thing.

You might want to take your humor meter in for a check up. It seems to be broken. Personally, I thought the part of about infants being lazy for not yet being able to talk (at the assumed age of several weeks or months, when circumcisions are normally performed) would have been a dead give away. And if not, then certainly mocking an infant for not yet being able to speak should have clued you in to the joke.


yeah...been up for 24+ hours (sick kid)...I completely overlooked that. sorry lol.
 
2012-09-25 04:10:18 AM
If you're happy with your penis, cut or not, I'm happy for you.

That being said, thank the lord that despite being born in Canada, my father was European and I have an un-altered penis.
 
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