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(Spiegel)   Are the internet really making us dumber?   (spiegel.de ) divider line
    More: Obvious, Winnie-the-Pooh, Mensa, national capitals  
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6943 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2012 at 4:51 PM (4 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-24 07:26:01 PM  
The internet was created by aliens with the sole purpose of getting valuable knowledge from the mankind. Al Gore is one of them. I know it for a fact, I'm from the Internet.

/poor aliens
 
2012-09-24 07:35:54 PM  
In the 90s, some buddies and I were trying to remember who the captain of the Exxon Valdez was.

We couldn't remember. Weeks passed and it came up again. Still couldn't remember. "hey, why don't we go on that AOL chatroom thing that Joe has on his computer and see if anyone knows."

A dial up later we had the answer. I think the internet has made us smarter, in that anything we want to know is a few clicks away.

/A few minutes later we were chatting with a chick that turned out to be a dude.
//few minutes after that we were chatting with another chick (legit i think) but then that dummy Kevin picked up the phone in the other room and knocked us offline.
 
2012-09-24 07:45:02 PM  

dickfreckle: Back in the 90s, when I was in college, if I needed the GDP of some sh*thole country I had to actually put on pants and go to the library.


Oh, wow, I just realized why I was always getting kicked out of the library.

Note to self: Pants. Wear pants.
 
2012-09-24 07:58:08 PM  

oldfarthenry: ABSO-DERP-LY!!


imageshack.us 

Politiks makes you dumb.
 
2012-09-24 07:58:22 PM  

Gawdzila: namatad: On the other hand, the median IQ is still 100.

It's defined that way.


The modal IQ of the population would be more meaningful.
 
2012-09-24 07:58:41 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: In the 90s, some buddies and I were trying to remember who the captain of the Exxon Valdez was.

We couldn't remember. Weeks passed and it came up again. Still couldn't remember. "hey, why don't we go on that AOL chatroom thing that Joe has on his computer and see if anyone knows."

A dial up later we had the answer. I think the internet has made us smarter, in that anything we want to know is a few clicks away.

/A few minutes later we were chatting with a chick that turned out to be a dude.
//few minutes after that we were chatting with another chick (legit i think) but then that dummy Kevin picked up the phone in the other room and knocked us offline.


I think you are confusing access to information with the ability to use it.
There is more information closer to everyone via the internet than ever in history.
People are not smarter simply for their proximity to information.
There's a kids story (I think from the 50's or 60's off the top of my head) about a goose that comes across a book. Short story shorter, unable to read, she thinks just having the book makes her smarter. All the rest of the animals, also unable to read, buy in. Bad stuff happens because of goose's hubris. Everyone at the end knows goose wasn't any smarter simply for having a book.......
 
2012-09-24 07:59:34 PM  
dumber?

i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-24 07:59:57 PM  

namatad: 3) on the other hand, it is possible to learn a tiny bit about a TON of subjects and create placeholders/links to access the information online when you need depth.
example: I dont use Q programming language every month, but whenever I need to I can go this great source and get everything that I need quickly. Without filling my shelves with yet another reference book.


Yeah, that's the funny thing: many think we're so far from that sort of sci-fi movie cyborg/augment existence, but the truth is all that's missing a universal, fast, and direct interface to the brain. Someone figures that out and it's not a GPS on the dash showing us a map any more; it's us knowing where the location is and how to get there. No small task of course, but the way we do thing today is a pretty good indicator of how easy it would be for us to "offload" memory or processing.
 
2012-09-24 08:08:12 PM  

dickfreckle: When browsing Fark threads, I often fact-check people's claims


I wish more people did that instead of calling me names.

I've been earmarked by Fark admins with a "boobies" in my profile that linked to a thread where i was saying something negative about vaccines, which i later found out probably has something to do with Drew's wife losing a friend to a disease that there is a vaccine for, but completely missing how many people still contract and die from from things they were vaccinated against each year.

Whatever, it's their site and i try to bring the knowledge, even if they want to refuse it.
 
2012-09-24 08:09:04 PM  
Petunia by Roger Duvoisin 1950.

/the goose story
 
2012-09-24 08:14:15 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: A dial up later we had the answer. I think the internet has made us smarter, in that anything we want to know is a few clicks away.


Yeah you get knowledge easier and faster but you don't have to stop and think and try to remember it for yourself. So does that change your brain chemistry in a way, you don't have to work to figure out or remember things without a crutch?
 
2012-09-24 08:15:23 PM  
I grew up in the 70's, in a VERY small town. When the teacher told you to do a report on JFK, you had 30 reports based on the 2 pages in the encyclopedia. I can't believe that this is even a debate. All the kids rowing up in rural areas have access to the entier world.

And porn.
 
2012-09-24 08:15:36 PM  
YES, both of them........


..... I always said it was those pesky ones and zeros.
 
2012-09-24 08:16:04 PM  

olderbudnoweiser: Nes Yo


Perhaps!
 
2012-09-24 08:19:04 PM  
It seems mostly to be affecting the disparity between smart and dumb. With the ease of access to such a vast amount of information it's easier for people who are so inclined to learn more quickly and completely than in previous generations. They get smarter in less time than they would have fifty years ago. Those who aren't inclined remain closer to the rough baseline from previous generations, with allowances for different teaching methods in the classroom.

Since we learn by analogy it stands to reason that a person who already has some knowledge which is conceptually related to a new subject will be able to pick up that new subject more easily than one who has had no related exposure at all - the reason people are taught addition, multiplication, etc. before they're taught algebra. So it stands to reason that those with a better memory would have more knowledge/previous experience to draw upon when learning something new, and would therefore be able to learn new subjects at a higher rate than others with a more average memory, becoming smarter, faster.

On the other hand, that only holds true when people are allowed to learn with only the barest hint of guiding structure, and, in the absence of structure, only if they're self-motivated. This is why kids who test very highly compared to peers at 4 years old tend to test relatively closer to the norm in early adulthood. The structured learning we impose to benefit the unexceptional and unmotivated has the effect of making the special ones less exceptional. Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be a practical solution for this.

So, yeah. The internet certainly has the ability to make us smarter, and those who take advantage of its wonders are likely bringing the average up faster than newer methods of teaching would alone. And yeah, to those who do take advantage of the new opportunities it will undoubtedly seem like those of average intelligence or those who are stuck in a more pragmatic method of thought are dumber than they actually are. But should that really be a practical issue in a world which is still largely composed of practical difficulties? Should I really think people who don't understand how a mechanical watch or clock works are fools? Is my entire body of knowledge more or less important than being a good person?

/We can rebuild him...
//Communication without intelligence is noise; intelligence without communication is irrelevant.
 
2012-09-24 08:19:57 PM  

Captain Steroid: Unpossible!



No...... INpossible.

Get a dam dickshonary, bud.
 
2012-09-24 08:22:37 PM  

Ozarkhawk: I grew up in the 70's, in a VERY small town. When the teacher told you to do a report on JFK, you had 30 reports based on the 2 pages in the encyclopedia. I can't believe that this is even a debate. All the kids rowing up in rural areas have access to the entier world.

And porn.


Oh, crap. I forgot about porn.
Never mind what I wrote up there.
 
2012-09-24 08:22:54 PM  

bdub77: downstairs: Its making us have to remember less, which to me isn't the most important component of "intellegence".
 
I don't have to know the dates of the Iran/Iraq war.  But I still have to use my own brain and experiences to give a (hopefully) intellegent opinion of how it may be affecting current events.
 
For those that use the internet to form their opinions, they were dumb to begin with.

I think its impirative to know the dates of wars we started with other counties, like Iran and Afganistan.

The internet thus insures we have a base of knowledge under which we can make diffecult choices. Whether those choices are the correct ones remains to be seen. I am pretty confidant that well come out a better nation, i.e. Canada or Great Britin. The wholistic question is whether the policys institued by that nations is the right or wrong ones. The internet helps us form opinions that are good in the sense of the increase in logic which America can use. To quote Jefferson, you cant stop good looking man from achieving stuff; people with bad attitudes are like horses and cannot be stopped.


Your trolling the grammer polise, aren't you?
 
2012-09-24 08:23:05 PM  

Surool: I see what you did subby, it's "Are the internet really making us more dumber? "

Can't get one by me.



Nice try, but it's 'morer'.
 
2012-09-24 08:23:15 PM  

Ozarkhawk: I grew up in the 70's, in a VERY small town. When the teacher told you to do a report on JFK, you had 30 reports based on the 2 pages in the encyclopedia. I can't believe that this is even a debate. All the kids rowing up in rural areas have access to the entier world.

And porn.


You just explained why it's a debate. With greater access comes greater need for discipline. There's so much more competing for their [our] attention.

/porn
 
2012-09-24 08:28:51 PM  
Dumber? No. Lessening of attention spans? Definitely.
 
2012-09-24 08:30:22 PM  
1. It's not that the internet is making people dumber, but rather that more and more dumb people are finally finding this 'internet thing' after 15 plus years. And while this Information Superhighway is an amazing thing, there will always be those that will never get out of the break-down lane. When they claim that your quotes, facts, and actual video are all lies because some addled fat man on the radio told them so, all you can do is shake your head and move on. These people are impervious to facts and reason and are rather proud of their own willful ignorance. Just let it go.

2. DUDE! It's a FARKNG CAT ridgni ROOMBAS!!! like like like!
 
2012-09-24 08:33:21 PM  

KStDrew: The internet was created by aliens with the sole purpose of getting valuable knowledge from the mankind. Al Gore is one of them. I know it for a fact, I'm from the Internet.

/poor aliens


www.picanese.com

strongly supports that theory.

/"And the answer is.......Yeeeeees!"
 
2012-09-24 08:34:05 PM  

DigitalCoffee: These people are impervious to facts and reason and are rather proud of their own willful ignorance. Just let it go.


imgs.xkcd.com
 
2012-09-24 08:40:31 PM  
Not dumber but definitely lazier in our quest for knowlege.

Intelligence is not about how much information you have crammed in your cranium, but rather, how you are able to process that knowlege. The task of rote memorization is far less taxing on the brain bucket then being able to compare and contrast, assemble and relay all that information.

Intelligence is not learned. It is a descriptor of how you process knowlege. It is an individual quality that one has. One need not be in college to display intelligence nor should it favor any particular socio-economic class. Look at the criminal world- stock full of people clever enough to game the system in their favor.

Yes, you can dumb down a person- usually a result of laziness-- but you don't necessarily dumb down intelligence.
 
2012-09-24 08:42:22 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: I've been earmarked by Fark admins with a "boobies" in my profile


That's in everyone's profile, dufus. That's the first thing you ever said on the site.
 
2012-09-24 08:45:01 PM  

J. Frank Parnell: Gyrfalcon: It's even possible to actively watch TV, but it takes skill and practice.

Consider me intrigued.


Not like that, you sick perv.

Well, okay, sometimes like that; but still, you can do more than sit slack-jawed and drooling at the TV.

Also not like that. Damn! You pervs are everywhere!
 
2012-09-24 08:52:13 PM  
SPIEGEL?! Their catalog is awesome.
www.thenumberfive.com
I think these pajamas are certainly 'smart'!
 
2012-09-24 08:55:01 PM  
Naw, it's making me smarter. For example, I learned the word 'meatspace' the other day. That's what you call the non-interwebs.
 
2012-09-24 08:55:14 PM  

Debeo Summa Credo: In the 90s, some buddies and I were trying to remember who the captain of the Exxon Valdez was.

We couldn't remember. Weeks passed and it came up again. Still couldn't remember. "hey, why don't we go on that AOL chatroom thing that Joe has on his computer and see if anyone knows."

A dial up later we had the answer. I think the internet has made us smarter, in that anything we want to know is a few clicks away.

/A few minutes later we were chatting with a chick that turned out to be a dude.
//few minutes after that we were chatting with another chick (legit i think) but then that dummy Kevin picked up the phone in the other room and knocked us offline.


Oh, Oh, I know, It was some guy named Juan.
 
2012-09-24 08:58:52 PM  
I'm running because I want to make sure that every child gets a high-quality education, and that means I want to hire new teachers in our classrooms -- especially in math and science. (Applause.) And I want to give 2 million more people the opportunity to get treyned at a community college for jobs that exist right now, and get the skills they need. (Applause.) And I want to make college more affordable for every young person who has the inshiattive and drive to go, and make sure they're not burdened by thousands of dollars' worth of debt. (Applause.) That's why I'm running for President.and I a;lskjdf;lkasv nla;slkdfa;lsdkjf;laknv;laskdf;laksdjf;lkja;lsdkjf;lkajsd;lfkj;lakjsdf ;lkajsdfl;kjas;dlfkja;lksdjfkqjwe[otiufjaefnbalfmq'wefl;kalfkja;flkjas f;lkdiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii
 
2012-09-24 09:00:04 PM  
The internet taught me how to count to potato.
 
2012-09-24 09:06:22 PM  
The internet is made up ones and zeros.


As far as I can tell, most people are zeros.
 
2012-09-24 09:25:29 PM  
I remember when I was a kid and I didn't know something, I'd ask my Dad (who is very smart and wise). He'd either tell me the answer or say "Go ask your mother".
Perhaps parents these days say neither, but instead "Go ask google".

/sad
// no more encyclopedia books either. all on teh internetz.
/// what will happen to libaries?! I love libraries. I used to work in one.
 
2012-09-24 09:35:01 PM  

Klippoklondike: 1nd, no. 2st, teh internets our not mkaing us dummer its the librul media mainstream media MSM! You shood no this by know, I am literally dying of laughter hear. Wut is rong with you persons? 3nd, their our more importance things to worry a bout now like the Mooslim aitheist kenyun funyun president fake prisdent we have in teh wite house


Woah woah woah. Don't drag us into your kookery. We'll leave you alone to be crazy, you leave us alone to suffer whatever you think your god will do to us after we die

/ and the aliens in the night
 
2012-09-24 09:36:51 PM  
Almost everything beyond basic human functioning I learned from the internet. It is the msot powerful tool humanity has ever known.

No way in hell its bringing me down... it turned me into an engineer, and keeps me striving and learning every day.

/Although I acknowledge I am probably more the exception than the rule
 
kab [TotalFark]
2012-09-24 09:41:02 PM  
Maybe not, but it certainly magnifies everything that absolutely sucks about humanity in general.
 
2012-09-24 09:42:53 PM  
Oh and I call bullshiat on it making us lazy learners... since I can learn things so easily, I simply learn far more things.

The two limiting factors for success have always been knowledge and capital.

Now its just capital.

/Take that as you will
 
2012-09-24 09:43:39 PM  

Mugato: Debeo Summa Credo: A dial up later we had the answer. I think the internet has made us smarter, in that anything we want to know is a few clicks away.

Yeah you get knowledge easier and faster but you don't have to stop and think and try to remember it for yourself. So does that change your brain chemistry in a way, you don't have to work to figure out or remember things without a crutch?


Yes. One of the important things we do as humans is in the way we can correlate massive and seemingly unrelated facts via layers and layers of hidden networks, some of which about which we're not even conscious. To form those networks, you need facts - and you need to retain them long enough to construct those layers.

It's not just "I can go look them up" that matters. Critical thinking involves the weighing of information. If you retain relatively little information, that information is increasingly weighted in your evaluation, and it's to those layers you go first, before you realize that perhaps you don't have the needed information. Introspection is not a strong suit in even the best of humans, to the point where we've turned introspection into a consumable art form - the perennial "I don't know what I don't know" problem occurs, and many folks can form surprisingly biased opinions because the few facts in their head can outweigh the potentially more valid and more relevant information they just didn't have, know, or were even aware of at the time the opinion was formed.

It's not just exposure - it's retention. It's enough retention to validate paths that can be critically examined, over and over again, when making fuzzier determinations. Without that retention, decision trees have fewer branches & layers, and critical thinking goes by the wayside, replaced by the quick response of the predator (or prey.)
 
2012-09-24 09:50:37 PM  

Clemkadidlefark: Refusing to teach Civics is damn sure contributing to the Epic Stupidity

[sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net image 403x403]


this is the usa government making certain future generations have little interest or education in an incredibly important subject. manipulation and control are vital to the overlords.
 
2012-09-24 09:52:51 PM  

thomps: warning: sticking around this thread for too long will give you an aneurism


Thanks, but you we're two late.
 
2012-09-24 10:25:20 PM  
It just makes me masterbate more. Like, a lot
 
2012-09-24 10:31:07 PM  

Vangor: PsiChick: but that's less 'gifted' and more 'the exact same pattern I've seen in every single homeschooled boy yanked out of day care'.

His behaviors are rather common in gifted children placed with noncognitive peers. He was not homeschooled, nor do I see anywhere suggesting he was removed. His intelligence is not making him act out, but his environment does as a response from his childishness as a result of his intellect .

But, this does not talk about the seeming random assailing of the parents you were throwing out. The parents did the right thing here when the child was throwing sand and hitting rather than what the vast majority of children do which is cry, push, fail to share, etc., and have to learn to do.


No, throwing sand and hitting are behaviors I've seen in the vast majority of non-gifted young boys who are put in weird environments like day care. The ADD 'symptoms'? Yeah, go spend ten minutes with a four-year-old boy. You tell me.

/In a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is that this is normal four-year-old-boy behavior, not particularly a sign of being gifted. The gifted part, they really didn't have anything that I, or any parent I know who spends the majority of their time with toddlers, would know.
 
2012-09-24 11:18:14 PM  
Well, of course n ... hey! shiny thing!
 
2012-09-25 12:33:26 AM  
It's a random example, but the Internet is an amazing resource to learn a second language, though at the same time something like Google Translate will make that unnecessary in many situations. Maybe it's not so random--in less developed areas of online knowledge the Internet is a tool that augments our learning, until it gets good enough in an area to obviate our need to do the heavy lifting. Maybe that is where the leap from knowledge to wisdom doesn't take place.

Though I did learn all about doom metal last night, so it's not a total loss (see: Last Days Here).
 
2012-09-25 12:37:35 AM  
...and John Marshall. Charles Evans Hughes. Warren Berger. Hmmmm, Burger.
 
2012-09-25 12:39:39 AM  

PsiChick: Vangor: PsiChick: but that's less 'gifted' and more 'the exact same pattern I've seen in every single homeschooled boy yanked out of day care'.

His behaviors are rather common in gifted children placed with noncognitive peers. He was not homeschooled, nor do I see anywhere suggesting he was removed. His intelligence is not making him act out, but his environment does as a response from his childishness as a result of his intellect .

But, this does not talk about the seeming random assailing of the parents you were throwing out. The parents did the right thing here when the child was throwing sand and hitting rather than what the vast majority of children do which is cry, push, fail to share, etc., and have to learn to do.

No, throwing sand and hitting are behaviors I've seen in the vast majority of non-gifted young boys who are put in weird environments like day care. The ADD 'symptoms'? Yeah, go spend ten minutes with a four-year-old boy. You tell me.

/In a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is that this is normal four-year-old-boy behavior, not particularly a sign of being gifted. The gifted part, they really didn't have anything that I, or any parent I know who spends the majority of their time with toddlers, would know.


Plus, he's four NOW. He was TWO when he was doing all those awful, psychotic, anti-social things like pushing and throwing and yelling MINE!

It's a sad day for humanity when toddlers get punished for not acting like fully grown adults.
 
2012-09-25 01:39:06 AM  
Written records came a long and everybody started to lose their long term memories that once were necessary to conduct business and continue history with an oral tradition. Then libraries came along and disseminated huge amounts of ready to roll information amongst the populous. Then the internet came along and let EVERYbody expand upon, revise, discuss and add to the written word, recorded music, graphic arts and prevalent opinion. It hasn't so much made us dumber and inundated us with the intellectual equivalent of bad refrigerator art. And, of course, given sh*tbags a global mommy's skirt to hide behind while they throw feces at passers by. When you look at what it *could* be, the internet seems sort of pathetic, but that's pretty much the history of mankind. Ill used potential.
 
2012-09-25 02:24:05 AM  
tldnr
 
2012-09-25 11:32:38 AM  
Dunno if it has already been pointed out, but did anyone notice the article inside the link on the left titled "Is the Internet Making Us Smarter?"
 
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