FARK.com: (7343849) Good news, everyone: someone actually made Windows 8 usable again

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		Good news, everyone: someone actually made Windows 8 usable again (ghacks.net)		121
		More: Hero, Windows, search box, beta versions, menu

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11011 clicks; posted to Geek » on 24 Sep 2012 at 4:08 PM | Favorite | share:

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Because People in power are Stupid		2012-09-24 02:04:48 PM

Walker		2012-09-24 02:20:16 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats		2012-09-24 03:22:23 PM

*yawn*

cretinbob		2012-09-24 03:46:40 PM

"again" means it was usable once before.

//wake me when Windows 9 comes out

Arumat		2012-09-24 04:13:35 PM

Is this the same Stardock that made that horrible piece of shiat drm software Starforce?

the_sidewinder		2012-09-24 04:14:42 PM

How much time do you spend in the start menu anyways?

/Might get Win8 for my dual monitor system, will pass on others

LesserEvil		2012-09-24 04:18:33 PM

Very nice, now can somebody make an extension to Windows that puts Metro apps into Windows if we don't want to use them fullscreen?

Between the start button and windowed Metro apps, Microsoft COULD have had a real winner out of the box. Instead they've scared away 90% of their customer base.

/Why bother calling it "Windows" anymore if you are going to force them to use programs as "Walls"

OgreMagi		2012-09-24 04:19:08 PM

By installing Ubuntu?

theurge14		2012-09-24 04:20:05 PM

I don't understand, perhaps because I haven't used Windows 8, but what is so wonderful about the Start menu as compared to the Metro tiles? Isn't it essentially the same thing, except Metro having more information available? Is it just for the "Search for programs and files" part? Isn't there that functionality in Windows 8 already?

Not understanding how essential this really is.

pjfry		2012-09-24 04:20:50 PM

Arumat: Is this the same Stardock that made that horrible piece of shiat drm software Starforce?

A quick search can be useful before posting something about a company that isn't true. Starforce (the company that made the crappy DRM) deliberately seeded torrents for Galactic Civ II (a game made by Stardock). The game had no DRM and Starforce was trying to prove that games without DRM were heavily pirated.

likefunbutnot		2012-09-24 04:21:38 PM

There's nothing wrong with Windows 8. There's nothing wrong with Server 2012. They're both completely usable. I've had systems with both since the day the release versions were available on MSDN.

I'm not a big fan of the Metro home screen, but in truth I hardly ever see it. I pinned shortcuts to my taskbar and I use those. That covers about 85% of my needs.

Since I switch between Windows and *nix all the time and I'm lazy, I also start a lot of programs from a command prompt anyway.. That's too much work for most people, but if you want to avoid Metro, it's certainly another option.

Windows 8 does bring a huge improvement in overall responsiveness compared to Windows 7. If anything wins hearts and minds for Win8, it's going to be that.

Counter_Intelligent		2012-09-24 04:22:31 PM

Arumat: Is this the same Stardock that made that horrible piece of shiat drm software Starforce?

No. Stardock is the company that criticized Starforce, who then put up torrent links to Stardock's games on their own site.

ghare		2012-09-24 04:22:42 PM

OgreMagi: By installing Ubuntu?

Oh yeah, this is FINALLY the year of Linux on the desktop!!!! Eleventy!!!!

ghare		2012-09-24 04:23:56 PM

Mikey1969		2012-09-24 04:28:52 PM

the_sidewinder: How much time do you spend in the start menu anyways?

/Might get Win8 for my dual monitor system, will pass on others

All the time when I launch shiat.

My PC should function like a PC, my tablet should function like a tablet. Both Microsoft and Apple don't get this. They think the two are the same device and that people want to type office documents on a screen.

Ed Finnerty		2012-09-24 04:29:24 PM

Arumat: Is this the same Stardock that made that horrible piece of shiat drm software Starforce?

www.retrogameage.com

likefunbutnot		2012-09-24 04:30:43 PM

ghare: Oh yeah, this is FINALLY the year of Linux on the desktop!!!! Eleventy!!!!

I'm not going to say that Linux won anything, but *Nix system code underlies almost all handheld devices. It's in printers, DVRs, home routers and who the hell knows what other consumer electronics. iOS and OS X are both BSD derivatives.

So anyway, I'd say *nix is doing fine.

Mikey1969		2012-09-24 04:34:25 PM

likefunbutnot: Windows 8 does bring a huge improvement in overall responsiveness compared to Windows 7. If anything wins hearts and minds for Win8, it's going to be that.

I think 7 works pretty well, not seeing what people are complaining about, except that they feel the need to rename shiat that people have been using for 10 years, that I don't understand. For example; why rename 'Add and Remove Programs' in the Control Panel, or rename 'My Computer' to just 'Computer'? It just makes no sense the little shiat they change when there is no need...

wildcardjack		2012-09-24 04:38:04 PM

I just realized... the Start button and taskbar is 17 years old.

There, now I just made you feel old.

/Get off my Start button

Rent Party		2012-09-24 04:39:17 PM

ghare: OgreMagi: By installing Ubuntu?

Oh yeah, this is FINALLY the year of Linux on the desktop!!!! Eleventy!!!!

Every three or four years I install the latest and greatest Linux on a laptop just to see how it is coming along as a desktop platform, and every three or four years I am completely unsurprised at what a massive steaming pile of shiat it is.

This year, however, I installed the MINT distribution, and was pleasantly surprised. I've configured my printers, wireless, and other devices without ever having to manage a configuration file. X set itself up without comment.

I gave it to my daughter (12) to play with. She uses it and doesn't know or care about the OS.

So that is progress.

irishjihad		2012-09-24 04:42:59 PM

Maybe it's just the engineer in me, but can I just get back the Windows Explorer that existed in Windows NT and prior? A nice simple graphical representation of folders in folders, but as normal freakin' text, and not tiles, etc.

Don't f#ck with what works. Just fix the s#!t that doesnt. As Mikey1969 said, I don't want my desktop to be a tablet. I have a tablet for that.

paidhima		2012-09-24 04:48:29 PM

Rent Party: ghare: OgreMagi: By installing Ubuntu?

Oh yeah, this is FINALLY the year of Linux on the desktop!!!! Eleventy!!!!

Every three or four years I install the latest and greatest Linux on a laptop just to see how it is coming along as a desktop platform, and every three or four years I am completely unsurprised at what a massive steaming pile of shiat it is.

This year, however, I installed the MINT distribution, and was pleasantly surprised. I've configured my printers, wireless, and other devices without ever having to manage a configuration file. X set itself up without comment.

I gave it to my daughter (12) to play with. She uses it and doesn't know or care about the OS.

So that is progress.

For desktop use my current favorite Linux distribution is Linux Mint with the Cinnamon 1.6 environment, if you haven't checked it out.

likefunbutnot		2012-09-24 04:51:47 PM

Mikey1969: I think 7 works pretty well, not seeing what people are complaining about,

It does work pretty well. Really, the only people who have any reason to complain about 7 are people who have turnkey applications that don't run in compatibility mode and can't easily be virtualized.

But there are real improvements in Windows 8. One of the easiest to see is to open a directory full of images on Windows 7 and Windows 8 with previews turned on.

From an end-user point of view, there are going to be some changes in terms of usability. MOST of those are geared to making Windows easier for someone who has no previous experience with Windows, which the rest of us are going to see as a penalty at least until we get used to the changes. Which isn't that hard.

LesserEvil		2012-09-24 04:53:55 PM

theurge14: I don't understand, perhaps because I haven't used Windows 8, but what is so wonderful about the Start menu as compared to the Metro tiles? Isn't it essentially the same thing, except Metro having more information available? Is it just for the "Search for programs and files" part? Isn't there that functionality in Windows 8 already?

Not understanding how essential this really is.

Chevy just announced they will not sell 2013 model Corvettes in anything but Pink, because their internal studies showed that most drivers spent a majority of their time inside the vehicle, instead of outside of it. Chevrolet made the move to consolidate production paint facilities and supplies with a partnership with Mattel to manufacture toy cars for their popular "Barbie" line of toys.

Large numbers of consumers have come out against the Pink Corvettes, stating they'll stick with the 2012 model in their favorite color, and the performance is fine. Others vow to switch to a Ford Mustang or Dodge Charger, which are still available in all colors. Before the car was sold to the public, Earl Scheib and Maaco were able to offer, at additional expense, custom colors for owners, but several times, Chevrolet has changed the body panels to different paint-resistant materials, makign it difficult to pin down an effective, working paint that can be applied to bring back custom colors.

A handful of customers like the Pink Corvette, and do not understand what all the fuss is about.

StoneColdAtheist		2012-09-24 04:54:32 PM

Ed Finnerty: Arumat: Is this the same Stardock that made that horrible piece of shiat drm software Starforce?

[www.retrogameage.com image 256x224]

LOL...that was one of my kid's favorite computer games. But fark you...now I can't get that farking music out of my head!

Dinjiin		2012-09-24 05:00:46 PM

ghare: Oh yeah, this is FINALLY the year of Linux on the desktop!

We'll see BSD, Linux or OSF/UNIX come to the desktop when somebody writes a 99.9% compatible WinAPI layer that sits under their *NIX kernel. Until then, it is too much of a PITA to develop for one or two (MacOS) desktop environments, let alone three.

likefunbutnot: So anyway, I'd say *nix is doing fine.

Embedded *NIX is doing fine. But then in the smartphone and tablet market, most of that nasty POSIX API is hidden via the Java JVM, save those whacky iOS folks. So they could swap in a QNX kernel for Android and the code would care less.

And server *NIX is doing fine. But that's all hidden away in datacenters for geeks to tinker with. Most clients never know that they're hitting a *NIX server.

It seems that only *NIX is struggling in the desktop and workstation markets these days.

dscott72		2012-09-24 05:03:10 PM

Loves Windows 7...so much I make it look like Windows XP...hate to go to new pc's cuz then I have to do all the customizations all over again.

Flying Code Monkey		2012-09-24 05:08:35 PM

theurge14: I don't understand, perhaps because I haven't used Windows 8, but what is so wonderful about the Start menu as compared to the Metro tiles?

Nothing, really. It's just what people are used to, which is a reasonable argument, but it's hardly the apex of application management. A few years from now, most of the same people will remember when all your stuff was crammed into a little box at the corner of the screen, and laugh at how lame it was.

We can debate the merits and flaws of the W8 Start Screen, how it could be improved, how Modern apps compare in usability to desktop apps, etc., but the Start Button has no real virtues beyond being familiar. The W8 Start Screen is basically just the W7 Start Button without the space constraints.

/out before "fanboi"

madgonad		2012-09-24 05:09:23 PM

likefunbutnot: Windows 8 does bring a huge improvement in overall responsiveness compared to Windows 7. If anything wins hearts and minds for Win8, it's going to be that.

You sound like one of those people that were handed an iPhone 4S by Jimmy Kimmel and told that it was the new iPhone 5. They went on and on about how much better the device they were holding was when compared with the previous device.

/confirmation bias just confirming itself

LoneCoon		2012-09-24 05:10:28 PM

I really miss the start buttons simply for the search feature and the easier access to the control panel. I'll be sticking with 7 till 9 comes out.

Rent Party		2012-09-24 05:11:19 PM

Dinjiin: So they could swap in a QNX kernel for Android and the code would care less.

cdn.crackberry.com

You are entirely correct. They swapped in QNX, and no one gave a shiat.

madgonad		2012-09-24 05:12:12 PM

Flying Code Monkey: theurge14: I don't understand, perhaps because I haven't used Windows 8, but what is so wonderful about the Start menu as compared to the Metro tiles?

Nothing, really. It's just what people are used to, which is a reasonable argument, but it's hardly the apex of application management. A few years from now, most of the same people will remember when all your stuff was crammed into a little box at the corner of the screen, and laugh at how lame it was.

We can debate the merits and flaws of the W8 Start Screen, how it could be improved, how Modern apps compare in usability to desktop apps, etc., but the Start Button has no real virtues beyond being familiar. The W8 Start Screen is basically just the W7 Start Button without the space constraints.

/out before "fanboi"

Metro doesn't have nested documents inside of each icon. It also can't be drilled down - just scrolled over. I'm sure it is just fine for people that don't ever install anything - just use the device to surf the net and get email - but people that have a lot of apps installed find the Metro screen almost unusable.

Lothar IB		2012-09-24 05:15:02 PM

We won't be using windows 8. Windows 7 works just fine and windows 8 doesn't offer anything that would counter upgrading all our computers and retraining(again) the users on a new system. It was painful enough to move from XP to 7 which are close to each other visually.

It may be easy for a lot of users from a site like fark to figure out the new OS, at least hope I'm not overestimating the intelligence here :), but I don't think the average user out there is going to adapt as quick. Workplaces certainly will not adapt it quickly.

Unless there is some major change I see my workplace using windows 7 for the next six years, at least.

NewWorldDan		2012-09-24 05:17:14 PM

the_sidewinder		2012-09-24 05:17:47 PM

LoneCoon: I really miss the start buttons simply for the search feature and the easier access to the control panel. I'll be sticking with 7 till 9 comes out.

The search feature didn't go anywhere, just so you know. If you have the start screen open, just start typing
madgonad: Metro doesn't have nested documents inside of each icon. It also can't be drilled down - just scrolled over. I'm sure it is just fine for people that don't ever install anything - just use the device to surf the net and get email - but people that have a lot of apps installed find the Metro screen almost unusable.

Which is a very valid argument. It remains to be seen if MS will address it though. I'm hoping that they will allow for custom hubs so you can make your own groups

MrEricSir		2012-09-24 05:18:55 PM

OgreMagi: By installing Ubuntu?

No thanks. One little advantage of the Windows 8 shell over Unity is that it doesn't lock up and crash every 15 minutes.

Telos		2012-09-24 05:19:15 PM

Mikey1969: the_sidewinder: How much time do you spend in the start menu anyways?

/Might get Win8 for my dual monitor system, will pass on others

All the time when I launch shiat.

My PC should function like a PC, my tablet should function like a tablet. Both Microsoft and Apple don't get this. They think the two are the same device and that people want to type office documents on a screen.

No, no one things people want to type office documents on a screen. They think, correctly, that lugging around a keyboard is less convenient than lugging around a screen. They think, again correctly, that if someone is at a coffee shop and wants to make a quick change to a resume or other document they should be able to. They think, once again correctly, that learning two user interfaces is a bit much for most people so having one UI that looks and works the same is better for your average user.

Now, where they might be WRONG is that the UI needs to work WELL for both a tablet/phone and a PC. I have no idea if they accomplished that, but I think that it was the right direction to go in.

The real issue may be that PC's are just going to go away except for power users.

Mr_Fabulous		2012-09-24 05:20:08 PM

I'm using XP. Is that a bad thing?

the_sidewinder		2012-09-24 05:20:20 PM

Lothar IB: Unless there is some major change I see my workplace using windows 7 for the next six years, at least.

Sounds about right, windows 9 will be out in 3 years, Win9 SP1 will be a year after that. At this point, companies will start to migrate, with major switch-overs happening 1.5-2 years after

/By which time Win10 will be out

madgonad		2012-09-24 05:20:41 PM

the_sidewinder: Which is a very valid argument. It remains to be seen if MS will address it though. I'm hoping that they will allow for custom hubs so you can make your own groups

MS just wants to get everything into Metro so that they can play tollbooth like Apple does and take 20-30% of every software sale in the world. Google allows their Android users to make use or other App Stores or to sideload. MS is going 'Full Apple'. Never go Full Apple.

psychoace		2012-09-24 05:20:54 PM

Haazaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!

seanpg71		2012-09-24 05:23:31 PM

LoneCoon: really miss the start buttons simply for the search feature and the easier access to the control panel. I'll be sticking with 7 till 9 comes

The search feature? You do know that you can just start typing on the start screen and it searches right?

And for control panel, go to the right side of the screen to open the charms bar, hit settings > control panel.

BullBearMS		2012-09-24 05:24:55 PM

I imagine most people are going to run Windows 7 for about as long as they ran XP.

seanpg71		2012-09-24 05:28:09 PM

the_sidewinder: LoneCoon: I really miss the start buttons simply for the search feature and the easier access to the control panel. I'll be sticking with 7 till 9 comes out.

The search feature didn't go anywhere, just so you know. If you have the start screen open, just start typing
madgonad: Metro doesn't have nested documents inside of each icon. It also can't be drilled down - just scrolled over. I'm sure it is just fine for people that don't ever install anything - just use the device to surf the net and get email - but people that have a lot of apps installed find the Metro screen almost unusable.

Which is a very valid argument. It remains to be seen if MS will address it though. I'm hoping that they will allow for custom hubs so you can make your own groups

Not sure exactly what you're asking for with "make your own groups", but if you drag a tile to the right of your existing groups you can create new ones. Then if you click the little box in the lower right on the start screen, it zooms out. If you right click a group, if gives you an option to name it.

Win 8 does have some discoverability issues....

the_sidewinder		2012-09-24 05:28:38 PM

madgonad: MS just wants to get everything into Metro so that they can play tollbooth like Apple does and take 20-30% of every software sale in the world

It's a risky game to try that. Not that I would put it past MS to try, but it has the chance of causing a massive developer backlash. I have no issue with MS offering a store, but at the same time, I do not want their store to be the ONLY way to get software on an open device (By which I mean PC)

JammerJim		2012-09-24 05:30:05 PM

Mr_Fabulous: I'm using XP. Is that a bad thing?

I don't think so. I'm still using XP, though more out of laziness than anything else. But when 8 is fully released I guess I'll move on up to 7.

/not looking forward to all those re-installs. Will probably update the whole box while I'm at it.

the_sidewinder		2012-09-24 05:31:26 PM

seanpg71: Not sure exactly what you're asking for with "make your own groups", but if you drag a tile to the right of your existing groups you can create new ones. Then if you click the little box in the lower right on the start screen, it zooms out. If you right click a group, if gives you an option to name it.

I'm well aware of that, but that is not the type of grouping that I was referring to. If you've used WP7, you'll know that there are certain Hubs built into the OS, such as the Games Hub and Office Hub. I would like to see customizable versions of that in the Windows 8 Metro shell

GRCooper		2012-09-24 05:33:18 PM

Every three or four years I install the latest and greatest Linux on a laptop just to see how it is coming along as a desktop platform, and every three or four years I am completely unsurprised at what a massive steaming pile of shiat it is.

This year, however, I installed the MINT distribution, and was pleasantly surprised. I've configured my printers, wireless, and other devices without ever having to manage a configuration file. X set itself up without comment.

so THIS it could've been written by me.

/impressed with how brain dead easy Mint install and configuration was

likefunbutnot		2012-09-24 05:42:14 PM

madgonad: You sound like one of those people that were handed an iPhone 4S by Jimmy Kimmel and told that it was the new iPhone 5. They went on and on about how much better the device they were holding was when compared with the previous device.

Or, you know, maybe I have some idea what I'm talking about.

I have dozens of classroom systems with an identical hardware configuration. It's pretty easy for me to put a Win8 test system side-by-side with Windows 7 on the same hardware. Startup and Shutdown are faster, which I don't think is a huge deal, but there's a real-world improvement for things like program load times, file copies and opening directories full of files as well. Control Panel navigation is borked, but that's true every time there's a new version of Windows.

At the end of the day, I don't give a crap. Windows is Windows. As long as programs run, I'm pretty happy. But Win8 isn't Windows ME/Vista levels of awful. It's fine, and some of the new features are handy. Storage Spaces is pretty nifty, for example.

J. Frank Parnell		2012-09-24 05:42:59 PM

GRCooper: /impressed with how brain dead easy Mint install and configuration was

Won't install on my current system because of some hardware problem. I've researched it enough to find a random guy on a linux forum who identified the problem and said he may work on a kernel fix, and all my hopes ride on him. Such is the way of open source.

A bit annoyed because i was planning on jumping into Linux big time for 2012. And no, i'm not using bizarre Russian hardware from the cold war or something. It was all bleeding edge when i assembled it last year.

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