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(WWSB ABC 7)   Yes, the tape clearly shows me kicking a handcuffed suspect while he was on the ground, but who are you going to believe, your eyes or my cop friends? Great... now how about a three year paid vacation?   (mysuncoast.com) divider line 42
    More: Florida, Officer Christopher Childers, Sarasota Police officer, Sarasota Police Department, police misconduct, witness testimony, Adam Tebrugge, Police Chief Peter Abbott  
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15528 clicks; posted to Main » on 24 Sep 2012 at 5:42 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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Archived thread
2012-09-24 06:08:42 AM
5 votes:
I'm hardly a police apologist, but I gotta say... I watched the video, and it really didn't look like the cop was using excessive force. The guy was clearly drunk and having a hard time standing up, and once he did get on his feet the cop pushed him back onto the ground with his foot. At first glance it looks sort of like a kick, but the guy doesn't react as if he'd just been kicked-instead, he actually continues to stand up. The second time, which immediately follows the first, he falls backwards onto the police car and tumbles to the ground, which is pretty much what you'd expect if he were extremely drunk and had just been pushed off balance.

This is hardly a case of the guy getting a severe beating despite obviously offering no resistance. He was clearly doing something he shouldn't have been doing, and given that he had just escaped from a patrol car and refusing orders to stay on the ground he was probably combative and would likely have bitten or spit on any officer who gave him a chance to do so. I think I might well have done the same thing in the cop's situation, and given the distance and angle of the camera it might well have looked like a kick.

Do everyone a favor, people--before you go crucifying this guy, take a look at the video and see if you might possibly have taken the same action that the cop did were you in his place. Let's save our righteous indignation for the pigs that truly deserve it, huh?
2012-09-23 11:20:27 PM
4 votes:

CruiserTwelve: The City of Sarasota's Civil Service Board has overturned the firing of a Sarasota Police officer from a 2009 incident.

Wow! It's almost like the cop exercised his due process rights and an independent board comprised of non-cops found that he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing! How unfair!


Seattle's "citizens review board" is made up of one prosecutor, one cop, and one retired cop... they never find any merit in citizen complaints, which puts my mind at ease. I mean, they are impartial.
2012-09-23 10:17:46 PM
4 votes:

fusillade762: It seems it's nearly impossible to get a cop fired. Hell, here in Portland one shot an unarmed, fleeing man in the back and killed him. The mayor fired him but arbitrators insisted he be reinstated.


Similar to Seattle. Cop was fired and the union got him rehired because it was discriminatory to let ONE cop go for abuse when so many others had not been fired.

Don't worry, the cop apologists will be in here momentarily.
2012-09-23 06:38:18 PM
4 votes:
Thank goodness the police officers' union was able to put an end to this egregious abuse of the city's power to hire and fire employees it can trust to act responsibly.
2012-09-24 10:18:16 AM
3 votes:

Smackledorfer: orclover: We will never evolve as a country until we get rid of all law enforcement positions. Cops are not a solution, they just compound an already out of control education problem.

So what happens when I rob you?

You round up a posse and we skip the trial, or you accept the loss and I come back in a month?


You mean like after my parent's house was burglarized, and and two hours after they called the cops, one patrolman showed up, took a report on what was taken, admitted that most likely they'd never see it again, but he'd "pass it on to a detective" (who they never heard from, even when they called and left messages to see what was happening), and gave them a copy of the police report for their insurance company? I think a posse would have worked better.
2012-09-24 08:24:00 AM
3 votes:

fredklein: CruiserTwelve: he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing!

Of course he did. Video don't lie. But cops do.

[img402.imageshack.us image 677x150] 

Also, "investigators concluded he violated five department policies."

Oh, and the little fact that he was fired.

But if you ignore all that, yeah, sure, he's completely innocent.


The SPD also had to pay out 2 separate "Please don't sue us" settlements totaling over $130k because Sgt. Oinksalot was so innocent.

Wipe off your chin before you go on parking lot duty, Cruiser 12.
2012-09-24 12:53:34 AM
3 votes:

CruiserTwelve: The City of Sarasota's Civil Service Board has overturned the firing of a Sarasota Police officer from a 2009 incident.

Wow! It's almost like the cop exercised his due process rights and an independent board comprised of non-cops found that he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing! How unfair!


Is that water heavy?
2012-09-24 12:11:58 AM
3 votes:

Lsherm: fusillade762: It seems it's nearly impossible to get a cop fired. Hell, here in Portland one shot an unarmed, fleeing man in the back and killed him. The mayor fired him but arbitrators insisted he be reinstated.

Public school teachers are the same way.


Public teachers shoot people in the back?
2012-09-23 10:14:08 PM
3 votes:
It seems it's nearly impossible to get a cop fired. Hell, here in Portland one shot an unarmed, fleeing man in the back and killed him. The mayor fired him but arbitrators insisted he be reinstated.
2012-09-24 10:42:54 AM
2 votes:

99.998er: There are stereotypes for a reason. Cops become cops for a reason. Normally making up for some serious inadequcies in their own life. I have never met a cop that didn't have some trumped up bullshiat story or who was humble. Think of nerdy kid in high school that now has a badge & gun.


The difficulty of believing in stereotypes is that it allows the outliers to define the norm. the majority of any population living in the middle of the bell curve is usually unremarkable. it is the edges of the curve that are very observable, and fool people outside of the population into thinking that the outliers are what the entire population must be like. yes, there are bad cops, and these are the ones you hear about. That doesn't mean that most cops are bad.
2012-09-24 09:40:21 AM
2 votes:

CruiserTwelve: Wow! It's almost like the cop exercised his due process rights and an independent board comprised of non-cops found that he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing! How unfair!


Well, the medical review found no significant injuries from the kicks, so I'd be with you, but according to a link someone else dropped in the thread: "His final disciplinary hearing was delayed for two years because members of the Civil Service Board violated the state Government-in-the-Sunshine Law while discussing the case amongst themselves" ... so forgive me if I'm not overwhelmed by the judgement of an inderpendent board that somehow can't avoid breaking the law while evaluating the law.
2012-09-24 08:54:47 AM
2 votes:
I guess I don't get the all cops are evil. I have dealt with several in my life and no one has been a dick to me. Sure there are power hunger jerks out there but there are people like that in any job. I think their job would suck. They deal with the worst of society. You see the guy walking away after seeing the guy on the ground. I imagine he was thinking . "Great, another drunk loser I have to deal with. He is probably going to pee or vomit in my car." They have to deal with pedophiles, guys that beat their wives, accidents with body parts everywhere. It doesn't sound like much fun to me.

What would you do if all the cops were gone? Who is going to go about arresting criminals, deal with the drunks, stop the scum of society? Are you going to take care of that?

I think most cops are average decent people. The bad ones just make the news.
2012-09-24 08:37:57 AM
2 votes:

CruiserTwelve: The City of Sarasota's Civil Service Board has overturned the firing of a Sarasota Police officer from a 2009 incident.

Wow! It's almost like the cop exercised his due process rights and an independent board comprised of non-cops found that he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing! How unfair!


Kicking someone who is handcuffed is a farking pussy move. You condone this?
2012-09-24 08:06:29 AM
2 votes:

GuidoDelConfuso: I'm hardly a police apologist, but I gotta say... I watched the video, and it really didn't look like the cop was using excessive force. The guy was clearly drunk and having a hard time standing up, and once he did get on his feet the cop pushed him back onto the ground with his foot. At first glance it looks sort of like a kick, but the guy doesn't react as if he'd just been kicked-instead, he actually continues to stand up. The second time, which immediately follows the first, he falls backwards onto the police car and tumbles to the ground, which is pretty much what you'd expect if he were extremely drunk and had just been pushed off balance.


Optics, optics, optics. It doesn't matter what you're doing, it matters what it LOOKS like you're doing. In practice this means you never touch a downed subject with your foot unless you actually intend to do what a still photo looks like you're about to do. My question is, what did the cop think was going to happen after he pushed the drunk guy with his foot? The guy's drunk and handcuffed, he can't protect himself when he falls. He's going to get hurt for basically no reason and you're responsible for it. That's a careless use of force. It's not like he bootfarked the guy, I'm not sure that warrants a firing, I definitely wasn't there, but it doesn't sound to me like that was a very good decision. Too bad the oversight board is so hilariously biased.

I now return you to your adolescent rage. Fark: Where advocating killing everyone in a single group is A-OK!
2012-09-24 07:30:54 AM
2 votes:
FTFA: ""This was really not a strong force that was used," Shelin said, as the board deliberated. "The man was drunk as a skunk and he was going to topple over easily. And apparently, that's all he did. It was an easy push with his foot, and the man fell over."

Um, it doesn't matter if it was "an easy push" or not, it's still unnecessary force.

img402.imageshack.us
2012-09-24 06:40:35 AM
2 votes:

blipponaut: Everyone hates the police until they need them, then it's "Why didn't you get here quicker?"


I've heard a lot of people make the same claim as you; but I don't know anyone who has actually said that.
2012-09-24 06:17:26 AM
2 votes:
I just do not understand why people do not shoot cops at random.
2012-09-24 12:09:18 AM
2 votes:
why isnt it required that we kill all the cops?
seriously
these "people" are the worst threat to america
period

WTF
2012-09-23 11:50:43 PM
2 votes:
Story with much detail. Link
2012-09-23 10:51:12 PM
2 votes:
The City of Sarasota's Civil Service Board has overturned the firing of a Sarasota Police officer from a 2009 incident.

Wow! It's almost like the cop exercised his due process rights and an independent board comprised of non-cops found that he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing! How unfair!
2012-09-23 10:05:38 PM
2 votes:
It's almost as if the police aren't our friends. It's almost as if they are not to be trusted, why do they try to fool us into being so distrustful of them? Why do the fine upstanding police officers try to make us afraid of them?

I'm merely a civilian, so I maybe i should not ask such questions.
2012-09-24 12:52:26 PM
1 votes:
2012-09-24 12:48:10 PM
1 votes:

Braggi: ...

I think most cops are average decent people. The bad ones just make the news.


No, it's the completely off the rails impunity which officers are afforded that makes the news. Officers generally protect their own to no end, so when the department fires one they are probably not very good officers, and probably have a history.

We need public oversight to get more of these assholes in jail/fired, not to review a proper firing and apply their 'just world' filter to give them their job back.

Anyway, the "bad ones" should make the news because generally they are being protected by the "good ones" who are "bad ones" because they allow it.
2012-09-24 12:10:23 PM
1 votes:

Smackledorfer: MycroftHolmes: You think it is more appropriate to be judged by people who are trying to judge appropriate actions for situations they have never been in? You honestly think that cops would get a fair review of their actions from politicians and elected city officials? Just read this thread and see how many idiotic 'kill all cops' and 'cops are the worst threat to america' derps there are, and tell me with a straight face that a board not made up of LEO or ex-LEO can honestly and objectively judge an LEO's actions.

I am all for accountability for police officers actions, I just do not believe that people who only see one side of the story, and can only empathize with one party of the incident, can objectively judge police actions.

And just imagine the quality of officer we'd get after the knee-jerk reactions all kicked in. Lets make it the shiattiest job in town, when we already have trouble getting someone we'd want doing it to take the job, and see what happens.


You pay peanuts, you get monkeys.
2012-09-24 11:03:47 AM
1 votes:
Notice they didn't say he didn't kick a handcuffed citizen. He clearly did and they have the video proving it. They said the "level of force was not unreasonable" which is a blatant lie. ANY force other than picking up and moving used against a handcuffed citizen is unreasonable.
2012-09-24 09:33:52 AM
1 votes:

Braggi: Just what do you folks do to have all that interaction with dick cops?


Doin' fifty-five in a fifty-fo'
2012-09-24 09:33:21 AM
1 votes:
GuidoDelConfuso

I'm hardly a police apologist, but I gotta say... I watched the video, and it really didn't look like the cop was using excessive force. The guy was clearly drunk and having a hard time standing up
Well ok then. See, the rest of us were just confused. We didn't know that hitting someone with your foot was the best way to assist someone to their feet.

CruiserTwelve: he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing!

Ok, I give up c.t. I was never good at "where's waldo". Which one is you?
www.upl.co
www.upl.co
2012-09-24 09:23:17 AM
1 votes:
I say double the law enforcement salary! Shiatty job, no doubt. But also say they need to be college grads, educated in that field instead of these idiots with a HS diploma and a few weeks of "training".
2012-09-24 09:18:12 AM
1 votes:

99.998er: There are stereotypes for a reason. Cops become cops for a reason. Normally making up for some serious inadequcies in their own life. I have never met a cop that didn't have some trumped up bullshiat story or who was humble. Think of nerdy kid in high school that now has a badge & gun.


I can't agree 100%, but I have no doubt that a LOT of cops are cops because they get a chance to be Mr. Tough Guy.

Some actually want to help make a change, but either end up corrupted, or quit law enforcement all together because they realize it has nothing to do with civil service.
2012-09-24 09:10:50 AM
1 votes:
We will never evolve as a country until we get rid of all law enforcement positions. Cops are not a solution, they just compound an already out of control education problem.
2012-09-24 08:58:18 AM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: This wasn't a civilian review board, it was a civil service board.


You mean these guys "...members of the Civil Service Board violated the state Government-in-the-Sunshine Law..."?

Sounds like a really nice crew running things over there.
2012-09-24 08:24:36 AM
1 votes:

namatad: why isnt it required that we kill all the cops?
seriously
these "people" are the worst threat to america
period

WTF


I agree that they are a threat to our liberties in America. I don't agree with a killing rampage, though. What we need is a real display of 'civil disobedience' to show those in power who are really in power. Cop and the government should fear the population but these days it's the other way around.
2012-09-24 08:15:29 AM
1 votes:
Childers will receive back pay for the last three years.

"Sweet! A boat load of lap dances from my snitch, some more free lobster and free fuel for the boat and finally get my landlord off my ass. It's great to be me."
A society of entitlement?

If you hadn't acted like a barbarian in the first place then . . . what?
2012-09-24 07:40:28 AM
1 votes:

CruiserTwelve: he didn't do what he had originally been accused of doing!


Of course he did. Video don't lie. But cops do.

img402.imageshack.us 

Also, "investigators concluded he violated five department policies."

Oh, and the little fact that he was fired.

But if you ignore all that, yeah, sure, he's completely innocent.

Oh, and regarding the claim the cop made about "not trying to hurt him or use any more force than necessary to keep him subdued."- Um, he's laying on the ground! How much more "subdued" do you want him?!?!

It's not like the cop was threatened at all- he was sauntering around with his hands in his pockets.
2012-09-24 07:16:50 AM
1 votes:

GuidoDelConfuso: Do everyone a favor, people--before you go crucifying this guy, take a look at the video and see if you might possibly have taken the same action that the cop did were you in his place.


Watched it.

Still wouldn't have stomped on the beat-up, pepper-sprayed drunk guy.
2012-09-24 07:09:25 AM
1 votes:

Onkel Buck: brianbankerus: fusillade762: It seems it's nearly impossible to get a cop fired. Hell, here in Portland one shot an unarmed, fleeing man in the back and killed him. The mayor fired him but arbitrators insisted he be reinstated.

Similar to Seattle. Cop was fired and the union got him rehired because it was discriminatory to let ONE cop go for abuse when so many others had not been fired.

Don't worry, the cop apologists will be in here momentarily.

Arent unions great! My parenst worked at the post office and one employee there was busted for stealing mail. Instead of being fired the union protected got her retrained and she ended up with a better job. She was clean and articulate too, so they may have had something to do with it as well, diversity being almost as wondeful as a union


Must be terrible being a persecuted white male like yourself.
2012-09-24 07:08:39 AM
1 votes:
Suspect must have: a) tripped and fallen on the sidewalk (several times). b) fallen down the stairs (several times). c) hit his head on the door of the police cruiser (several times).

See? There's a reasonable explanation for everything!
2012-09-24 06:42:47 AM
1 votes:
This is what happens when you're caught being Mexican in Sarasota County.
However, to the assholes in the thread joking about shooting at cops......... you're assholes.
2012-09-24 06:35:17 AM
1 votes:

hestheone: I just do not understand why people do not shoot cops at random.



Dunno....maybe for the same reason that you haven't done it.

Hey! You could start a trend!
2012-09-24 06:14:39 AM
1 votes:
Farking cops. Die.
2012-09-24 01:38:10 AM
1 votes:

brianbankerus: Seattle's "citizens review board" is made up of one prosecutor, one cop, and one retired cop... they never find any merit in citizen complaints, which puts my mind at ease. I mean, they are impartial.


This wasn't a civilian review board, it was a civil service board.
2012-09-23 10:52:18 PM
1 votes:

fusillade762: It seems it's nearly impossible to get a cop fired. Hell, here in Portland one shot an unarmed, fleeing man in the back and killed him. The mayor fired him but arbitrators insisted he be reinstated.


Public school teachers are the same way.
 
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