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(Philly.com)   Since the Keystone XL pipeline is delayed, why not deprive Americans of their energy supplies by exporting natural gas instead?   (philly.com) divider line 59
    More: Obvious, XL pipeline, Americans, exporting natural gas, Marcellus Shale, LNG, Federal Energy Regulatory Commission, XTO Energy, countries by natural gas proven reserves  
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1504 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 Sep 2012 at 5:17 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-23 03:56:11 PM
I thought the Keystone XL oil was going to Asia, too. Might as well ship the natural gas over there while we're at it.
 
2012-09-23 03:59:17 PM

St_Francis_P: I thought the Keystone XL oil was going to Asia, too. Might as well ship the natural gas over there while we're at it.


It is. The Keystone pipeline isn't delivering oil to us.
 
2012-09-23 04:04:47 PM
Makes perfect sense, subby, since the Keystone pipeline in question transports resources that are set for export as well.
 
2012-09-23 04:16:00 PM
We need to export the gas to get prices to rise again.
How else are the gas companies going to be able to put millions into Corbet's campaign fund?
 
2012-09-23 04:42:35 PM

GAT_00: St_Francis_P: I thought the Keystone XL oil was going to Asia, too. Might as well ship the natural gas over there while we're at it.

It is. The Keystone pipeline isn't delivering oil to us.


Correctamundo. Keystone was never intended to bring any resources to the US. It's always been about exporting to other countries with no net benefit to Americans.
 
2012-09-23 05:10:55 PM
I'm depraved on account of being deprived.
 
2012-09-23 05:35:05 PM
Nebraska.

/it's their fault
 
2012-09-23 05:37:09 PM
FTA: "The question is, do we want those additional jobs?" said Williams, a career employee with Exxon Mobil,"

Ok, take a count of Exxon employees in the U.S., for every cubic whatever of gas that is exported put an additional tax on it. The only way to write-off this tax is to offset the costs of any additional employees hired above the current numbers.
 
2012-09-23 05:38:25 PM

Irving Maimway: GAT_00: St_Francis_P: I thought the Keystone XL oil was going to Asia, too. Might as well ship the natural gas over there while we're at it.

It is. The Keystone pipeline isn't delivering oil to us.

Correctamundo. Keystone was never intended to bring any resources to the US. It's always been about exporting to other countries with no net benefit to Americans.


There's a very large refining capacity in the U.S. for heavy oil and it's been growing for quite some time, because refiners have been expecting growth in their heavy oil supply, not only from Canada, but also Venezuela. So there's a big market in the U.S. looking for it.

Plus, if this pipe is hooked up, North American prices for oil will rise (the interior of the continent will be better connected with world markets), so they won't have to ship the Canadian oil overseas to get higher prices. Finally, if it comes down to refining Canadian oil or Venezuelan oil, chances are far greater that the Canadian oil will simply push Venezuelan oil out of the U.S. market.

I'm not defending the pipeline (gasoline, whether a fuel derived from oil sands or light oil, is a fuel we should be weaning ourselves from), but, please, at least know some shiat about markets before spouting off some BS about the markets.
 
2012-09-23 05:41:26 PM
The northern half of the Keystone XL pipeline was delayed, but they are going ahead with the section from Cushing to the gulf coast.
 
2012-09-23 05:48:49 PM
I've been trying to make some money on natural gas, but that shiat is a roller coaster. I go up 40% in a month and then it falls 20% in a week. Long term, I'm thinking prices will double their June lows in a year as the pace drilling new wells continues to fall, but it's a helluva tough wait.
 
2012-09-23 06:11:07 PM

Irving Maimway: GAT_00: St_Francis_P: I thought the Keystone XL oil was going to Asia, too. Might as well ship the natural gas over there while we're at it.

It is. The Keystone pipeline isn't delivering oil to us.

Correctamundo. Keystone was never intended to bring any resources to the US. It's always been about exporting to other countries with no net benefit to Americans.


Don't tell Sarah Palin, she'll turn into a Newt.
 
2012-09-23 06:21:50 PM
Drilling companies are extracting so much natural gas from formations like Pennsylvania's Marcellus Shale that they want to export the fuel overseas, provoking opposition from some who say that American gas should stay at home.


Wait? Don't we want to export natural gas?

As far as the Keystone Pipeline, isn't it common knowledge that Canada is tired of selling it's oil to the US and is looking to more perspective buyers overseas?

He pretty much said as much on the Canadian version of Fox News.

Link
 
2012-09-23 06:25:14 PM
Grrr, supply and demand makes me angry!
 
2012-09-23 06:53:41 PM

BunkyBrewman: Nebraska.

/it's their fault


I blame it on Arkansas. They can't even play football and if I could I would send them back to the SWAC.
 
2012-09-23 06:56:01 PM
Why don't we just nationialize the oil companies and keep the oil? That would make the conservatives happy, right?
 
2012-09-23 07:07:48 PM

GAT_00: St_Francis_P: I thought the Keystone XL oil was going to Asia, too. Might as well ship the natural gas over there while we're at it.

It is. The Keystone pipeline isn't delivering oil to us.


The Keystone Pipeline is currently delivering oil to Illinois and Oklahoma. The proposed Keystone XL Pipeline will be delivering oil to Texas where it can be processed and/or shipped overseas.

static1.businessinsider.com
 
2012-09-23 07:18:51 PM
Drill Here, Now!
Sell There, Later!
 
2012-09-23 07:34:01 PM
Sounds like a great idea. Drive up the price of the fuel that heats just over half of the homes in this country.
There is no shame or decency left in this country anymore, is there?
 
2012-09-23 07:59:08 PM
Producers embrace the idea of exporting natural gas, which would increase demand, boost prices, and spur more production.

MARKET FORCES DO NOT WORK THAT WAY

The reason they want to export is because prices are already higher over there, and because there's already unmet demand. Sounds like someone failed Econ 101.
 
2012-09-23 08:07:39 PM

Lando Lincoln: The Keystone Pipeline is currently delivering oil to Illinois and Oklahoma. The proposed Keystone XL Pipeline will be delivering oil to Texas where it can be processed and/or shipped overseas.


While leaving the US responsible for all leaks, spills, and explosions. And just to keep things interesting, they're going to use Chinese pipe with an atrocious safety record.
 
2012-09-23 08:36:02 PM

Mrtraveler01: Wait? Don't we want to export natural gas?


We've also become a net exporter of gasoline because supply exceeds domestic demand. I guess we're supposed to keep the gas here as well where no one will use it.
 
2012-09-23 08:51:10 PM

Mentat: Mrtraveler01: Wait? Don't we want to export natural gas?

We've also become a net exporter of gasoline because supply exceeds domestic demand. I guess we're supposed to keep the gas here as well where no one will use it.


They can find their own. Is not extracting it all from the ground RIGHT NOW so we can sell it and keep some for future use really all that bad of an idea? We do use it for home heating and electricity production here after all. If it were up to me, we'd convert the rest of the houses that are still using home heating oil to NG (and build up the delivery systems while we're at it) so we can quit sucking off the teat of Hugo Chavez for that stuff.
 
2012-09-23 09:07:51 PM

GoodHomer: Irving Maimway: GAT_00: St_Francis_P: I
I'm not defending the pipeline (gasoline, whether a fuel derived from oil sands or light oil, is a fuel we should be weaning ourselves from), but, please, at least know some shiat about markets before spouting off some BS about the markets.


Ok Mr. Market genius explain last years natural gas prices when there was a glut of natural gas on the market yet when it came round to winter time all of a sudden prices went way up.
 
2012-09-23 09:10:41 PM

TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Makes perfect sense, subby, since the Keystone pipeline in question transports resources that are set for export as well.


The Keystone XL pipeline would transport Canadian oil sand extracts to the Gulf of Mexico. The present pipeline ends in midwest US refineries and is at about 50% capacity. It is projected to remain at about 50% capacity for the next decade. BUT - there is a major problem with this pipeline that sends oil to America.

This pipeline ends in the American midwest.

The poor poor poor oil companies have to pay the evil taxes on the oil that stops here.

If it can be shipped out of Mobile or Galveston or whichever whore oil Congresscritter outbids the other,. it will be SOCIALIST TAX FREE. And it WILL go to Europe or Asia or wherever the fungible molecules sniff the most ducats.
 
2012-09-23 09:11:30 PM

KarmicDisaster: Why don't we just nationialize the oil companies and keep the oil? That would make the conservatives happy, right?


ExxonMobil and the rest of the oil companies have absolutely zero obligation to offer US consumers low-price fuel, even if the shiat was drilled here on federal lands. I'm continually amazed at how many people think that "American" oil companies give the slightest shiat about anything except next quarter's revenues.

Surprise! The US lacks a nationalized oil company!
 
2012-09-23 09:22:36 PM

Bonzo_1116: KarmicDisaster: Why don't we just nationialize the oil companies and keep the oil? That would make the conservatives happy, right?

ExxonMobil and the rest of the oil companies have absolutely zero obligation to offer US consumers low-price fuel, even if the shiat was drilled here on federal lands. I'm continually amazed at how many people think that "American" oil companies give the slightest shiat about anything except next quarter's revenues.

Surprise! The US lacks a nationalized oil company!


And yet we pay the lowest per capital food and fuel prices in the world.
 
2012-09-23 09:24:25 PM
And drop the ell from Capita.
 
2012-09-23 09:55:01 PM
Others appeal to patriotic sentiments to block exports. T. Boone Pickens, who wants to replace imports of crude oil from unfriendly nations, thinks it would be folly to export natural gas.

i'm really scratching my head about why T Boone Pickens has this position.

Natural Gas is not a replacement for crude oil in the US. Not anymore, anyway.

there aren't many power plants left here that use oil as a primary source; plants like that have not been built since the late 70s. no new ones will be built due to the clean air act. heating oil is only used in a small fraction of homes.

if we were using natural gas to power our cars I would agree with him, but we don't.
 
2012-09-23 10:20:49 PM

sparkeyjames: GoodHomer: Irving Maimway: GAT_00: St_Francis_P: I
I'm not defending the pipeline (gasoline, whether a fuel derived from oil sands or light oil, is a fuel we should be weaning ourselves from), but, please, at least know some shiat about markets before spouting off some BS about the markets.

Ok Mr. Market genius explain last years natural gas prices when there was a glut of natural gas on the market yet when it came round to winter time all of a sudden prices went way up.


http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/312/563/05d.jpg
 
2012-09-23 10:21:36 PM

GoodHomer: sparkeyjames: GoodHomer: Irving Maimway: GAT_00: St_Francis_P: I
I'm not defending the pipeline (gasoline, whether a fuel derived from oil sands or light oil, is a fuel we should be weaning ourselves from), but, please, at least know some shiat about markets before spouting off some BS about the markets.

Ok Mr. Market genius explain last years natural gas prices when there was a glut of natural gas on the market yet when it came round to winter time all of a sudden prices went way up.

http://i3.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/312/563/05d.jpg


Shiat. Let's try that again.

i3.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-09-23 10:26:23 PM
Fungible is as fungible does.
 
2012-09-23 10:37:42 PM

BunkyBrewman: Nebraska.

/it's their fault


Yup. It's Nebraska fault that U.S. petroleum refiners are exporting gasoline to foreign markets where they can get more money for it.

/Capitalism. How does it work?
 
2012-09-23 10:48:05 PM
"And now, the Governor of Montana..."

::ahem::

www.japanprobe.com

FARK YOU, CALIFORNIA!
FARK YOU, NEW YORK! 

/We are, literally, the reason natural gas is as expensive as it is (artificial inflation) when petroleum as a whole is comparatively cheap. 
//We didn't borrow any money from anyone, Hell, we lent it out and are now supposed to sit on our hands while it's not paid back.
 
2012-09-23 11:27:26 PM
Who saw this speech in person?

That would be this guy.
 
2012-09-23 11:36:15 PM

buzzcut73: Sounds like a great idea. Drive up the price of the fuel that heats just over half of the homes in this country.
There is no shame or decency left in this country anymore, is there?


They are currently venting natural gas because we no longer have storage space.

EIA data

If you look at that lower chart, the gray band represents the normal high and low stock of stored natural gas. The red line is the actual stock. Today, we are producing it faster than we can use it.

I'd much rather see the US sell the gas to China or Europe than dump it into the atmosphere.
 
2012-09-23 11:58:13 PM

Mr. Eugenides: buzzcut73: Sounds like a great idea. Drive up the price of the fuel that heats just over half of the homes in this country.
There is no shame or decency left in this country anymore, is there?

They are currently venting natural gas because we no longer have storage space.

EIA data

If you look at that lower chart, the gray band represents the normal high and low stock of stored natural gas. The red line is the actual stock. Today, we are producing it faster than we can use it.

I'd much rather see the US sell the gas to China or Europe than dump it into the atmosphere.


Thank you for the rational response. The thing I'd be most worried about is selling not only the excess production, but shipping off supplies that could be used here because the prices are higher overseas. There, I said it, I want cheap Natural Gas for my heating and cooking needs, and since we have it in abundance in our country, it makes perfect sense, at least to me, that we should have it at a low cost. I'm not saying they should give it away, but they shouldn't get to the point where they're supplying everybody else and people in the US see their winter gas bill skyrocket because of it.

/Kinda tired, hope that made sense.
 
2012-09-24 12:26:08 AM

buzzcut73: Mr. Eugenides: buzzcut73: Sounds like a great idea. Drive up the price of the fuel that heats just over half of the homes in this country.
There is no shame or decency left in this country anymore, is there?

They are currently venting natural gas because we no longer have storage space.

EIA data

If you look at that lower chart, the gray band represents the normal high and low stock of stored natural gas. The red line is the actual stock. Today, we are producing it faster than we can use it.

I'd much rather see the US sell the gas to China or Europe than dump it into the atmosphere.

Thank you for the rational response. The thing I'd be most worried about is selling not only the excess production, but shipping off supplies that could be used here because the prices are higher overseas. There, I said it, I want cheap Natural Gas for my heating and cooking needs, and since we have it in abundance in our country, it makes perfect sense, at least to me, that we should have it at a low cost. I'm not saying they should give it away, but they shouldn't get to the point where they're supplying everybody else and people in the US see their winter gas bill skyrocket because of it.

/Kinda tired, hope that made sense.


But why? There's no true "we" in the statement "we have it in abundance in our country". The collective "we" never really owned it, except to lease out the land it comes from for a teeeny tiny fraction of what it's worth to the various gas companies.
 
2012-09-24 12:36:59 AM

Bonzo_1116: But why? There's no true "we" in the statement "we have it in abundance in our country". The collective "we" never really owned it, except to lease out the land it comes from for a teeeny tiny fraction of what it's worth to the various gas companies.


It's vital to our national security and economy, so let's sell it all to China so we can power our military vehicles and hospitals with iPhones!
 
2012-09-24 12:43:29 AM

12349876: Bonzo_1116: But why? There's no true "we" in the statement "we have it in abundance in our country". The collective "we" never really owned it, except to lease out the land it comes from for a teeeny tiny fraction of what it's worth to the various gas companies.

It's vital to our national security and economy, so let's sell it all to China so we can power our military vehicles and hospitals with iPhones!


sure it's vital to our economy and national security...doesn't mean we've got a national energy company where Congress can tell it to sell natural gas to the public at x$ per ton. I think the closest thing we have is the strategic oil reserve...but as far as I know the Feds need to pay the private oil companies market price to refill it when we tap it.
 
2012-09-24 12:56:15 AM

Bonzo_1116: But why? There's no true "we" in the statement "we have it in abundance in our country". The collective "we" never really owned it, except to lease out the land it comes from for a teeeny tiny fraction of what it's worth to the various gas companies.


You sound like a farking commie. Society can't control its collective resources. They belong to a Job Creator.

And trying to conserve resources for a rainy day? That's liberal thinking. Conservatives know better.
 
2012-09-24 01:05:55 AM

Smackledorfer: Bonzo_1116: But why? There's no true "we" in the statement "we have it in abundance in our country". The collective "we" never really owned it, except to lease out the land it comes from for a teeeny tiny fraction of what it's worth to the various gas companies.

You sound like a farking commie. Society can't control its collective resources. They belong to a Job Creator.

And trying to conserve resources for a rainy day? That's liberal thinking. Conservatives know better.




Teddy Roosevelt wanted to preseve our open spaces....
2.bp.blogspot.com

Just so there'd be bears he could punch later.
 
2012-09-24 01:46:56 AM

Bonzo_1116: Smackledorfer: Bonzo_1116: But why? There's no true "we" in the statement "we have it in abundance in our country". The collective "we" never really owned it, except to lease out the land it comes from for a teeeny tiny fraction of what it's worth to the various gas companies.

You sound like a farking commie. Society can't control its collective resources. They belong to a Job Creator.

And trying to conserve resources for a rainy day? That's liberal thinking. Conservatives know better.



Teddy Roosevelt wanted to preseve our open spaces....
[2.bp.blogspot.com image 455x653]

Just so there'd be bears he could punch later.


He's my favorite President.
 
2012-09-24 06:35:20 AM

buzzcut73: Sounds like a great idea. Drive up the price of the fuel that heats just over half of the homes in this country.
There is no shame or decency left in this country anymore, is there?


Not to a businessman looking for a quick buck, look at Mitt.
 
2012-09-24 08:14:39 AM

Marcus Aurelius: TheBeastOfYuccaFlats: Makes perfect sense, subby, since the Keystone pipeline in question transports resources that are set for export as well.

The Keystone XL pipeline would transport Canadian oil sand extracts to the Gulf of Mexico. The present pipeline ends in midwest US refineries and is at about 50% capacity. It is projected to remain at about 50% capacity for the next decade. BUT - there is a major problem with this pipeline that sends oil to America.

This pipeline ends in the American midwest.

The poor poor poor oil companies have to pay the evil taxes on the oil that stops here.

If it can be shipped out of Mobile or Galveston or whichever whore oil Congresscritter outbids the other,. it will be SOCIALIST TAX FREE. And it WILL go to Europe or Asia or wherever the fungible molecules sniff the most ducats.


Yes, at this point, I find it difficult to believe that there is a single person left on the face of the earth who believes that the proposed Keystone Pipeline extension is designed to deliver oil to America.
 
2012-09-24 09:00:40 AM

buzzcut73: Mr. Eugenides: buzzcut73: Sounds like a great idea. Drive up the price of the fuel that heats just over half of the homes in this country.
There is no shame or decency left in this country anymore, is there?

They are currently venting natural gas because we no longer have storage space.

EIA data

If you look at that lower chart, the gray band represents the normal high and low stock of stored natural gas. The red line is the actual stock. Today, we are producing it faster than we can use it.

I'd much rather see the US sell the gas to China or Europe than dump it into the atmosphere.

Thank you for the rational response. The thing I'd be most worried about is selling not only the excess production, but shipping off supplies that could be used here because the prices are higher overseas. There, I said it, I want cheap Natural Gas for my heating and cooking needs, and since we have it in abundance in our country, it makes perfect sense, at least to me, that we should have it at a low cost. I'm not saying they should give it away, but they shouldn't get to the point where they're supplying everybody else and people in the US see their winter gas bill skyrocket because of it.

/Kinda tired, hope that made sense.


it is a low cost for the US, $2.50 per million btu. the lowest in 10 years.

in Japan, its $17. in Europe, its $11.

why not export it to take advantage?
 
2012-09-24 09:17:38 AM
Screw LNG; why isn't GTL being developed?

/You know who else developed GTL?
 
2012-09-24 09:33:26 AM

12349876: It's vital to our national security and economy, so let's sell it all to China so we can power our military vehicles and hospitals with iPhones!


I'd like to invite you stop and think in the future. Before you post, I mean. It may save you embarrassment.
 
2012-09-24 09:37:12 AM

dumbobruni: in Japan, its $17. in Europe, its $11.

why not export it to take advantage?


Apparently half the posters in this thread are mercantilists.
 
2012-09-24 09:58:46 AM

dumbobruni:
it is a low cost for the US, $2.50 per million btu. the lowest in 10 years.

in Japan, its $17. in Europe, its $11.

why not export it to take advantage?


I was saying that I'd like to keep it at a low cost, and not have it driven up to Japan and Europe level pricing here just because that's what they pay over more, just so the gas companies can make a billions more than they already are. I know, socialism, but whatever, I like my sub $100 heating bill in January.
 
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