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(The Next Web)   How technology gave us cheap food in huge quantities - and why it has to stop   (thenextweb.com) divider line 120
    More: Obvious, genetic modifications, genetically modified organism, primary sector of the economy, Governor of California, IHS, energy market, John Deere, World Wildlife Fund  
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15293 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2012 at 5:07 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-23 03:27:46 PM  
It's not cheap food that needs to stop,. it's people still breeding like there's a shortage of humans that needs to stop.
 
2012-09-23 03:36:55 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: it's people still breeding like there's a shortage of humans that needs to stop.


Life. ... uh .. finds.. a... way
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2012-09-23 03:45:09 PM  
See George R. R. Martin's Tuf Voyaging for some science fictional commentary on the subject.

The good news is that as long as consumer demand dictates food market behavior, there are alternatives to biofuels and the high subsidies that sustain them.

The U.S. government doesn't like consumer demand unless it aligns with political expectations. See, for example, the fights over bovine growth hormone labels.
 
2012-09-23 04:12:08 PM  
Another anti-GMO rant. How droll.
 
2012-09-23 04:17:38 PM  
Cheap food? Food prices have doubled in the last 10 years. What the hell are they talking about?
 
2012-09-23 05:03:25 PM  
and why it has to stop

Unless it's bacon.
 
2012-09-23 05:09:33 PM  
Yeah but is it gluten free?
 
2012-09-23 05:10:48 PM  
Um, why does submitter hate the poor?

Doesn't he know that there are millions of Americans who struggle to pay for their food while food banks struggle to keep up with demand?
 
2012-09-23 05:11:10 PM  
ba da ba da da family guy

www.familyguyfiles.com
 
2012-09-23 05:14:44 PM  

Ambivalence: Cheap food? Food prices have doubled in the last 10 years. What the hell are they talking about?


Food is still cheap relative to man-hours worked. In the 1930s it was much more expensive in constant-dollar terms - in fact it took up the greatest % of the average family budget. Of course there were essentially zero convenience foods then, and even certain basics like like oranges and chickens were incredibly costly. It's why people ate so much icky junk like liver and cabbage, and smoked so many cigarettes.
 
2012-09-23 05:16:06 PM  
We need to convert all farmland to organic farming so that nothing will reach your supermarket ripe and undamaged. This will of course, cost far more money and produce far less food, but it's worth it because on a long enough timeline everyone gets cancer, so we should starve them to death before cancer can develop!
 
2012-09-23 05:16:27 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: It's not cheap food that needs to stop,. it's people still breeding like there's a shortage of humans that needs to stop.


And the solution there is educated women.
 
2012-09-23 05:16:51 PM  
Agenda21 FTW
 
2012-09-23 05:17:24 PM  
It doesn't "have" to stop, but barring some other magical energy source like oil, it *will* stop. Space won't save us, despite the mythology and sincere beliefs of certain types of people.
 
2012-09-23 05:19:25 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: It's not cheap food that needs to stop,. it's people still breeding like there's a shortage of humans that needs to stop.


Hans Rolling's research has shown that education and a higher standard of living slows population growth to replacement levels. It's extreme poverty and treating women as chattel which drive up birth rates.
 
2012-09-23 05:20:11 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: It's not cheap food that needs to stop,. it's people still breeding like there's a shortage of humans that needs to stop.


This. People really need to get over the hangup of birth control and the societal pressure to have kids.

Yeah, I know this probably makes a bunch of people mad.
 
2012-09-23 05:20:19 PM  
Or we could just shrink our population. There is not a single benefit to having a higher human population. Any effort we make to increase energy and food production can at best asymptotically approach the median quality of life of a human being on planet earth if we were to draw down to about 2 or 3 billion people. You can make an argument that the planet could just barely support X number of people, but is that our goal? Should the priority be to just barely keep as many homo sapiens alive as possible, or to provide the highest possible quality of life for however many are here?
 
2012-09-23 05:20:27 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: Ambivalence: Cheap food? Food prices have doubled in the last 10 years. What the hell are they talking about?

Food is still cheap relative to man-hours worked. In the 1930s it was much more expensive in constant-dollar terms - in fact it took up the greatest % of the average family budget. Of course there were essentially zero convenience foods then, and even certain basics like like oranges and chickens were incredibly costly. It's why people ate so much icky junk like liver and cabbage, and smoked so many cigarettes.


So are we better or worse off?
 
2012-09-23 05:23:50 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: . It's why people ate so much icky junk like liver and cabbage, and smoked so many cigarettes.


You take that back about liver and cabbage. I could live indefinitely on that stuff.
 
2012-09-23 05:24:16 PM  
It's the established religious organizations of the world who stand in the way of population management.
 
2012-09-23 05:24:32 PM  

MemeSlave: i upped my meds-up yours: Ambivalence: Cheap food? Food prices have doubled in the last 10 years. What the hell are they talking about?

Food is still cheap relative to man-hours worked. In the 1930s it was much more expensive in constant-dollar terms - in fact it took up the greatest % of the average family budget. Of course there were essentially zero convenience foods then, and even certain basics like like oranges and chickens were incredibly costly. It's why people ate so much icky junk like liver and cabbage, and smoked so many cigarettes.

So are we better or worse off?


Oh god, don't get me started...but I will say this. In pictures in the 30s you never see people with "discretionary" poundage on them - say a potbelly or double chins. There were gross fatties, probably glandular in cause, and everyone else was skinny and not too tall.
 
2012-09-23 05:26:37 PM  

whidbey: FirstNationalBastard: It's not cheap food that needs to stop,. it's people still breeding like there's a shortage of humans that needs to stop.

This. People really need to get over the hangup of birth control and the societal pressure to have kids.

Yeah, I know this probably makes a bunch of people mad.


And people like the Duggars and Octomom should chastised even further for what they have done. No one can be this irresponsible going forward if we're going to avoid mass starvation. Instead of getting tax breaks, people with more than two children should have to pay more. It would be a good start.
 
2012-09-23 05:26:58 PM  

Tommy Moo: There is not a single benefit to having a higher human population.


More slaves?
 
2012-09-23 05:27:13 PM  
What we need to do is create a second economy. A calorie economy. Each person is entitled to a certain number of calories, depending on body size. Buying food debits your daily balance. A poor person who might eat less may sell his extra calories to someone who might need more. The daily balance system can be tweaked, with the end result being in a fitter people, and it's easier to gauge food surplus for export to places that need it way more than we do.
 
2012-09-23 05:27:33 PM  

Tommy Moo: Or we could just shrink our population. There is not a single benefit to having a higher human population. Any effort we make to increase energy and food production can at best asymptotically approach the median quality of life of a human being on planet earth if we were to draw down to about 2 or 3 billion people. You can make an argument that the planet could just barely support X number of people, but is that our goal? Should the priority be to just barely keep as many homo sapiens alive as possible, or to provide the highest possible quality of life for however many are here?


B...b...but go forth and multiply...

I think what you're saying is going to become a bigger and bigger part of the conversation in the coming decades.
It has to.
 
2012-09-23 05:30:24 PM  
There is no food shortage, there is a distribution problem. If ALL countries enacted programs to ensure that the local farmers could at least produce enough to feed the own population things would be better. His does require the farmers and consumers to buy and sell the food on the local market before hopping to the global one, on which prices might be better.

Starvation in Africa? Not because they can't grow and store crops due to ineptitude in the general population, but due to political problems.

/Anyone heard of a famine on other continents in the last decades?
//Barring short term situation due to acute natural disasters
 
2012-09-23 05:33:42 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: Ambivalence: Cheap food? Food prices have doubled in the last 10 years. What the hell are they talking about?

Food is still cheap relative to man-hours worked. In the 1930s it was much more expensive in constant-dollar terms - in fact it took up the greatest % of the average family budget. Of course there were essentially zero convenience foods then, and even certain basics like like oranges and chickens were incredibly costly. It's why people ate so much icky junk like liver and cabbage, and smoked so many cigarettes.


Back in the day oranges weren't considered basic foodstuffs unless you lived in a place that grew them. And chickens were special for Sunday dinner.

If you lived in the northern hemisphere, fresh tomatoes in December were impossible. Canned or jarred ones were all you got.
 
2012-09-23 05:36:26 PM  

Because People in power are Stupid: Another anti-GMO rant. How droll.


Yah GMO has been around forever, but now there are new ways to create them. I am more against how you can patent GMOS to the point that any farmer can be sued if they found any trace of the genes in their seeds that isn't their. Kind of farks over the farmers, because of cross pollination. My biggest beef is all the subsidizes with corn, because that is how a lot of farmers make most of their money. Those subsidizes make the farmers make more money than with other crops, and since there are so much corn out there, we need to figure out ways to use it. That is why there is high fructose corn syrup in almost everything. the damn stuff doesn't have to be in every fricken thing being sold at the grocery store. Also since corn is grown a lot, there is a lot of use of fertilizers and pesticides that are farking up the soil, because of the depleted nutrients.
 
2012-09-23 05:36:33 PM  
Human population has a way of correcting itself. Probably science short circuited the last potential for a huge plague when it contained HIV, but it's only a matter of time before disease or war does us in. Our ability to destroy still far outstrips our ability to create. Just give it time.
 
2012-09-23 05:36:39 PM  

Cpl.D: Each person is entitled to a certain number of calories, depending on body size.


WTF, you want to assign more calories for fatties?

Under that system, you reward fat asses who sit in front of the computer all day and punish the skinny little bastard who's training for a marathon.
 
xcv
2012-09-23 05:39:03 PM  

austin_millbarge: I think what you're saying is going to become a bigger and bigger part of the conversation in the coming decades.
It has to.


Don't see how population controlled can be given serious attention unless the growth was happening in Western countries.
 
2012-09-23 05:40:08 PM  

Warrener: Cpl.D: Each person is entitled to a certain number of calories, depending on body size.

WTF, you want to assign more calories for fatties?

Under that system, you reward fat asses who sit in front of the computer all day and punish the skinny little bastard who's training for a marathon.


No. I meant size as in height and build, not by current fat content. For example, a five year old girl might need 1,000 or 1,500 calories, but a six-foot-three male with a heavier musculature might need 2,500 or 3,000. All numbers are off-the-cuff guesses on my part here.
 
2012-09-23 05:41:39 PM  
i1097.photobucket.com

"Pink slime" and "fracking"? Don't like it don't have so many damn kids.
 
2012-09-23 05:44:35 PM  
I believe the science in this article to be extremely questionable. These doom and gloom predictions are betting against human ingenuity. Besides if it does break down we'll have ourselves a giant murder party called a war and we'll have more heros to remember. Won't be the end of the world just more history.

Don't understand the resistance to GMO either. After WW2 most agricultural colleges experimented with irratiating fields just to see if any interesting or useful "genetic modifications" occured. There was no complaints. Once upon a time people remembered that there were things called famines where people died slow horrible deaths. Any efforts to provide more food cheaply were viewed as good and noble.

Science has added to the agricultural revolution to provide a world where there is plenty of food. My prediction? We havent seen anything yet.
 
2012-09-23 05:44:43 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Human population has a way of correcting itself. Probably science short circuited the last potential for a huge plague when it contained HIV, but it's only a matter of time before disease or war does us in. Our ability to destroy still far outstrips our ability to create. Just give it time.


You guys are just thinking small scale. I foresee humans as less an infection of the life on earth, and more of a zerg-rush on the galaxy, dragging the rest of the biomass along with us to suit our whims.
 
2012-09-23 05:45:27 PM  

i upped my meds-up yours: Ambivalence: Cheap food? Food prices have doubled in the last 10 years. What the hell are they talking about?

Food is still cheap relative to man-hours worked. In the 1930s it was much more expensive in constant-dollar terms - in fact it took up the greatest % of the average family budget. Of course there were essentially zero convenience foods then, and even certain basics like like oranges and chickens were incredibly costly. It's why people ate so much icky junk like liver and cabbage, and smoked so many cigarettes.


In graph form.

www.pcrm.org
 
2012-09-23 05:46:52 PM  
I'm sure we'll come up some solution to keep feeding the growing populace...

i125.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-23 05:48:49 PM  

Tommy Moo: Or we could just shrink our population. There is not a single benefit to having a higher human population. Any effort we make to increase energy and food production can at best asymptotically approach the median quality of life of a human being on planet earth if we were to draw down to about 2 or 3 billion people. You can make an argument that the planet could just barely support X number of people, but is that our goal? Should the priority be to just barely keep as many homo sapiens alive as possible, or to provide the highest possible quality of life for however many are here?


I double-dog-dare you to be the one who suggests that maybe we should stop saving 10 oz. babies and let nature take its course; or to recommend that people being maintained on life-support machines ought to be unplugged and allowed to die.

I'm not disagreeing with you, you realize, but YOU must realize that it ain't gonna happen, barring a huge shift in our basic cultural belief that all life is precious.
 
2012-09-23 05:50:11 PM  
Technology? I blame Jesus for this.
 
2012-09-23 05:52:30 PM  
Hey Maffeo. When these kids ts2.mm.bing.net look more like these kids ts1.mm.bing.net, then it'll be time to stop. Until then, STFU, GTFO, and GBTW.
 
2012-09-23 05:54:00 PM  

Gyrfalcon: our basic cultural belief that all life is precious.


Kids are precious. Adults are not. Try selling life extension around here. The space loons are perfectly happy with their handful of decades to explore the entire universe.
 
2012-09-23 05:54:01 PM  

Gyrfalcon: I double-dog-dare you to be the one who suggests that maybe we should stop saving 10 oz. babies and let nature take its course; or to recommend that people being maintained on life-support machines ought to be unplugged and allowed to die.

I'm not disagreeing with you, you realize, but YOU must realize that it ain't gonna happen, barring a huge shift in our basic cultural belief that all life is precious.



I suggest that we not only kill off all of those people, but add in everyone with a first degree felony.
 
2012-09-23 05:57:31 PM  

SockMonkeyHolocaust: Human population has a way of correcting itself. Probably science short circuited the last potential for a huge plague when it contained HIV, but it's only a matter of time before disease or war does us in. Our ability to destroy still far outstrips our ability to create. Just give it time.


My bet? War. We're overdue for a major one.

/ maybe we'll use an engineered plague in the next World War...
 
2012-09-23 06:01:51 PM  

FirstNationalBastard: It's not cheap food that needs to stop,. it's people still breeding like there's a shortage of humans that needs to stop.


Could not disagree more. If you read history, you'll see that there have always been poor and starving people.
 
2012-09-23 06:04:36 PM  
Vote Yes on Prop 37 in California this November and make labeling of genetically engineered foods mandatory.

You have a right to know what you are feeding your family.
 
2012-09-23 06:06:59 PM  
War, disease, or martian vaporization seem to be the only viable options...because Knuckleheadrs are all i refuse to wear a rubber and i want cute babies!!!
 
2012-09-23 06:12:17 PM  

kanesays: Vote Yes on Prop 37 in California this November and make labeling of genetically engineered foods mandatory.

You have a right to know what you are feeding your family.


Everything is genetically engineered to a degree. All that is going to do is make it more expensive to buy food. Why do you hate poor people?
 
2012-09-23 06:15:34 PM  

kanesays: Vote Yes on Prop 37 in California this November and make labeling of genetically engineered foods mandatory.

You have a right to know what you are feeding your family.


When you say genetically engineered, what exactly do you mean? Pretty much all domesticated crops and animals are much much different from the wild stock we culled them from.

THIS:
animaldiscoveryonline.com

Was bred down to THIS using all natural methods.
burntheplow.typepad.com

Maybe the GMO labeling needs to apply only to transgenic stuff.
 
2012-09-23 06:16:24 PM  
2.bp.blogspot.com

lh6.googleusercontent.com
 
2012-09-23 06:18:25 PM  

MayoSlather: people with more than two children should have to pay more.



That's not how welfare works.
 
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