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(NPR)   Thanks to new expectations, obese children are even further marginalized in school   (npr.org) divider line 222
    More: Asinine, sleep apnea, extracurricular activities, middle schools, health information, elementary schools, overweight, expectations, health records  
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10907 clicks; posted to Main » on 23 Sep 2012 at 11:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-23 10:47:40 AM
Doesn't care much for schools.

i894.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-23 11:07:24 AM
I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.
 
2012-09-23 11:49:57 AM

AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.


I think it's safe to say these kids mentioned in the article don't have parents. They have sperm/egg donors that are either negligent or abusive.
 
2012-09-23 11:51:48 AM
Oh yay, something else for the GOP to rail against.
 
2012-09-23 11:52:04 AM
Holy shiat, what kind idiot would allow their 13-year-old to hit the 256lb mark, much less 400?
 
2012-09-23 11:52:12 AM
Obese people are like drug addicts. People with no self control on a self destructive path that society as a whole ends up footing in the end. The only difference is there is no criminal element involved, and even vagrants can be obese in America.
 
2012-09-23 11:53:31 AM

AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.


I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.

/fark the GOP fatties
//may you all die in an Oreo-encrusted Hell
 
2012-09-23 11:54:35 AM

AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.


On the plus side, there are a lot of frustrated knife-wielding clowns out there.
 
2012-09-23 11:54:54 AM
Roly poly, Daddy's little fattie...
 
2012-09-23 11:54:59 AM

D_Evans45: Obese people are like drug addicts. People with no self control on a self destructive path that society as a whole ends up footing in the end. The only difference is there is no criminal element involved, and even vagrants can be obese in America.


I never give money to a beggar that is fatter than me. Maybe when you look hungry I'll consider it, but until then fark you, put down the fork.
 
2012-09-23 11:55:34 AM
 
2012-09-23 11:55:45 AM

Fark_Guy_Rob: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I think it's safe to say these kids mentioned in the article don't have parents. They have sperm/egg donors that are either negligent or abusive.


THIS.

It's also talking about kids like this in DC, so anyone hoping to score cheap points from it being evil white Republican parents doing this in West Alexandria and Burke in Fairfax county should expect to be disappointed.
 
2012-09-23 11:55:58 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: Holy shiat, what kind idiot would allow their 13-year-old to hit the 256lb mark, much less 400?


Fat parents have fat kids.
 
2012-09-23 11:56:29 AM
The Spartans would shove these socially useless types down the big deep well, but then I suppose the well would fill up quickly..........
 
2012-09-23 11:57:18 AM

my lip balm addiction: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.

/fark the GOP fatties
//may you all die in an Oreo-encrusted Hell


I don't have a problem with Michelle getting the kids healthier meals in school. Great. I have a problem where she encourages schools to write policies that prohibit kids from bringing their own meals. I have an ultra high metabolism. I'm 6'4", 141 lbs. I need a lot of calories in my diet during the day and I struggled with that in school on the days they served "healthy" meals.
 
2012-09-23 11:58:27 AM

D_Evans45: Obese people are like drug addicts. People with no self control on a self destructive path that society as a whole ends up footing in the end. The only difference is there is no criminal element involved, and even vagrants can be obese in America.


If a heroin addict quits doing heroin within a few weeks all he has are memories and track marks. A carb-addict cuts out the sugars and starches and they're still fat six weeks later. So, the comparison is false.
 
2012-09-23 11:58:27 AM

jayphat: I have a problem where she encourages schools to write policies that prohibit kids from bringing their own meals.


When has that ever happened?
 
2012-09-23 11:59:37 AM

Gwyrddu: Should we be shaming obese children more?

In my opinion, yes.


No. You're not allowed to make anyone feel bad about anything anymore, no matter how much they deserve it.
 
2012-09-23 11:59:51 AM
Today, Hancock is examining Derek Lyles, 13. He's 4 feet 11 inches and weighs 256 pounds... Derek says other students often called him fat in middle school.

Those other students should be lauded for their keen skills of observation.
 
2012-09-23 11:59:57 AM

jayphat: my lip balm addiction: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.

/fark the GOP fatties
//may you all die in an Oreo-encrusted Hell

I don't have a problem with Michelle getting the kids healthier meals in school. Great. I have a problem where she encourages schools to write policies that prohibit kids from bringing their own meals. I have an ultra high metabolism. I'm 6'4", 141 lbs. I need a lot of calories in my diet during the day and I struggled with that in school on the days they served "healthy" meals.


So because you have a farked up metabolism, everyone has to suffer? That's mighty white of you.
 
2012-09-23 12:00:20 PM
TFA: This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on.

And this is why we have these sorts of problems. It's not 'politically correct' these days to point it out, but this isn't a 'issue' to be 'managed'. The important concern here shouldn't be helping the fat kids learn to 'deal' with being fat or worrying about their sensitive little feelings being hurt because people point out that they look like whales, it should be to help them stop being fat so that they can live normal lives. Unfortunately it's not fashionable to point out that these kids have serious problems because their parents are farking morons who shouldn't be allowed to raise goldfish, let alone a kid, so the problem continues.
 
2012-09-23 12:01:26 PM
This article is cruel. Now there's parents of obese children hiding in the closet, eating a candy bar while crying. I hope you're proud of yourselves.
 
2012-09-23 12:02:19 PM
Reading that article made me want to beat up a few parents.
 
2012-09-23 12:04:38 PM

my lip balm addiction: So because you have a farked up metabolism, everyone has to suffer? That's mighty white of you.


So because some kids can't control their weight, everyone else has to suffer?
 
2012-09-23 12:04:58 PM
Margarinalized?
 
2012-09-23 12:05:10 PM
The two most offensive words in the English language are "personal responsibility".
 
2012-09-23 12:05:24 PM

my lip balm addiction: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.

/fark the GOP fatties
//may you all die in an Oreo-encrusted Hell


Stop the Democrat nut hugging. It isn't a political party issue, dude. There are plenty of fat ass Democrats. The problem isn't so much school lunches, it is the fact HFCS is in everything and the lack of moving around these days.

And shouldn't it be "margarinealized?"
 
2012-09-23 12:05:45 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Holy shiat, what kind idiot would allow their 13-year-old to hit the 256lb mark, much less 400?


I know, distantly, a young woman who was around 400 lbs by the time she was 18.

The entire family is morbidly obese, living on processed convenience foods mostly, treating exercise as a four-letter-word. When it's time for actual cooking, it's lots of corn, potatoes, and pasta, in bulk, and most everything is fried.

She ate when she was bored. She ate when she was lonely, she ate when she didn't know what else to do. The rest of the family was not much better off. I sometimes call them "The Hutt Clan".
 
2012-09-23 12:05:56 PM
Her patients include a 13-year-old who weighs 400 pounds; a child whose teeth are so rotted she can't bite into carrots; and many preteens who are diabetic. Today, Hancock is examining Derek Lyles, 13. He's 4 feet 11 inches and weighs 256 pounds.

ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ 
ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-09-23 12:06:49 PM

AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.


Actually, some recent studies (too lazy to pull up a link, but they're real) have suggested pretty strongly that exercise isn't particularly closely connected to weight gain or loss- most of the calories you use are used for cellular maintenance and replacement and whatnot, and the percentage burned for energy is actually pretty low, and pretty consistent across various activity levels (they worked with a tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa to get this- this isn't a study of desk jockeys versus slightly more active college students). Basically, you can shock your system for temporary gain by dramatically changing your exercise level, but you're not going to be able to sustain those losses long term, unless you're on the far end of the bell curve (we're talking Micheal Phelps here, and if he stops those insane workouts, he's gonna balloon very quickly).

The conclusion? Diet, diet, diet. Your diet drives your metabolism, your diet drives what raw material is there for your body to work with- some stuff basically goes straight to fat (surprisingly, fat's not included there, we're talking some classes of sugars- apart from cholesterol, most fats aren't particularly bad for you), some stuff, like alcohol, has to be burned off and never really contributes energy to anything, which is why it saps you of energy- in burning it, your body is getting a lot less useful energy per calorie than it gets with real food- which is also why those calorie counts for hard liquor are more or less useless. Vitamins come into play to help your metabolism as well, which is an excellent reason to eat your veggies.

If you're fat, you need to fix your diet. Fattie in school's mother is either feeding him crap, or letting him feed himself crap. Cut the sugared up drinks down to a rare treat or never and watch the magic happen. Change the big macs to cans of reheated soup at home and all of a sudden, your 10 year old's blood pressure readings might stop resembling Donald Trump's.
 
2012-09-23 12:07:00 PM
Fat people are disgusting and it shows a basic character flaw so horrible that any exclusionary actions taken against them are more than justified.
 
2012-09-23 12:07:22 PM

WhippingBoy: The two most offensive words in the English language are "personal responsibility".


The least offensive phrase in American politics today is "We're taking away your freedom for your own good".
 
2012-09-23 12:07:33 PM

AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.


Can I get a this?
 
2012-09-23 12:07:49 PM
How are these people doing it?

You have to eat thousands of dollars of food per month to put on that kind of weight. I'm 6'3" eat 4500 calories per day and my weight has stabilized at around 200 lbs, (in stead of dropping like a rock when I cut back a little on food.). If I'm not careful to eat enough I find that after 4 or 5 days I burn through my body fat reserves and start loosing weight to about 165 at which point either my calorie intake has to go back up or I get lethargic and light headed as well as looking like skin and bones.
 
2012-09-23 12:08:26 PM

fluffy2097: Her patients include a 13-year-old who weighs 400 pounds; a child whose teeth are so rotted she can't bite into carrots; and many preteens who are diabetic. Today, Hancock is examining Derek Lyles, 13. He's 4 feet 11 inches and weighs 256 pounds.

ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ
ಠ_ಠ 
ಠ_ಠ


sounds like a body builder
 
2012-09-23 12:10:40 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: sounds like a body builder


If only you mean you could chop him into 4 pieces and end up with 4 normal sized children.
 
2012-09-23 12:11:14 PM

my lip balm addiction: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.

/fark the GOP fatties
//may you all die in an Oreo-encrusted Hell


Exactly. No matter how serious the issues is -- e.g. global warming -- they politicize it, and nothing gets accomplished.

If anything, they should be praise Ms. Obama for not taking the obvious hardline regulatory approach to the problem (which ultimately, is going to be the only way this epidemic gets solved).

The bottom line, is what percentage of Americans needs to be obese before the GOP concedes that this is not going to be a problem that solves itself? 70%?
 
2012-09-23 12:11:36 PM

WhippingBoy: Gwyrddu: Should we be shaming obese children more?

In my opinion, yes.

No. You're not allowed to make anyone feel bad about anything anymore, no matter how much they deserve it.


But even in the article those kids are still at the point where their dumbass parents cause the problem. I see no reason to shame the kids. The kids are miserable already.

MuonNeutrino: TFA: This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on.

And this is why we have these sorts of problems. It's not 'politically correct' these days to point it out, but this isn't a 'issue' to be 'managed'. The important concern here shouldn't be helping the fat kids learn to 'deal' with being fat or worrying about their sensitive little feelings being hurt because people point out that they look like whales, it should be to help them stop being fat so that they can live normal lives. Unfortunately it's not fashionable to point out that these kids have serious problems because their parents are farking morons who shouldn't be allowed to raise goldfish, let alone a kid, so the problem continues.


I had similar problems when I was a kid. It was only remedied when the primary trouble maker (father) left the house and I was old enough to take over my own diet, often paying for my own food. Unfortunately schools cant intervene in the home and its not really their place to, but they can educate the child so that he can eventually make changes for himself.
 
2012-09-23 12:12:36 PM

Silverstaff: When it's time for actual cooking, it's lots of corn, potatoes, and pasta, in bulk, and most everything is fried.


I ate a lot of that when growing up. But:

She ate when she was bored. She ate when she was lonely, she ate when she didn't know what else to do. The rest of the family was not much better off. I sometimes call them "The Hutt Clan".

I'd go out on my bike, sometimes until 2am. Eating is just something you do to keep the blackouts away.
 
2012-09-23 12:14:32 PM
Shouldn't laugh but when reading the article a highlight for another NPR story showed up on the right: Americandy: Sweet Land Of Liberty: "We're taking a cross-country tour of candies from around the U.S., sampling hometown sweets that deliver a nostalgic sugar rush."
 
2012-09-23 12:15:12 PM
There is a kid on our cul de sac who is in fourth or fifth grade and is not allowed to leave it!! They must think the rest of us on the block are downright negligent. They probably think I am abusive as my 13 y/o takes his backpack and "survival gear" into the woods for the day to play. He and his friends build shelters, play in the woods, fish and swim in the bayou and ponds, trap rabbits, play king of the hill etc. This kid rides a bike in the circle for like five minutes before heading inside. He isn't allowed to play sports with the other boys because they don't wear safety gear (it's pick up games of basketball, football, baseball, and dodgeball for jeebus sake--not knife throwing). The kid is chubby and awkward. The parents actually had a talk with all the neighborhood boys about playing gently with him not horsing around--so of course he is completely ostracized now. I blame parents. I see a lot of kids whose every move is monitored or planned and many who are coddled to such an extent that they are not able to do much activity for fear of some sort of disabling injury....
 
2012-09-23 12:16:20 PM
When I was in school each classroom had a an extra large chair for the fatties, no one ever sat in them because no one was that big.

We had two overweight people in my school. A guy we called Chunk because of goonies, and a girl we called Jabba because she had a little skinny boyfriend who looked like salacious crumb.
 
2012-09-23 12:16:40 PM

fluffy2097: WhippingBoy: The two most offensive words in the English language are "personal responsibility".

The least offensive phrase in American politics today is "We're taking away your freedom for your own good".


Hey, as long as you don't cry "foul" or expect other people to change for your benefit when the logical consequences of your personal choices come back to bite you in the ass, people should be free to do whatever they want.

If you don't want to feel bad because someone calls you fat, lose the goddamn weight; don't try to force others to change their actions and be artificially "nice" to you.
 
2012-09-23 12:17:32 PM

Maxor: How are these people doing it?

You have to eat thousands of dollars of food per month to put on that kind of weight. I'm 6'3" eat 4500 calories per day and my weight has stabilized at around 200 lbs, (in stead of dropping like a rock when I cut back a little on food.). If I'm not careful to eat enough I find that after 4 or 5 days I burn through my body fat reserves and start loosing weight to about 165 at which point either my calorie intake has to go back up or I get lethargic and light headed as well as looking like skin and bones.


Fat people, pretty invariably, have an insanely skewed sense of what normal portions are. You'll hear a lot of fat people wondering why they're so fat, saying things like, "But I eat what normal people eat!". They don't. When independent observers come in, it turns out they're eating portions of unhealthy crap that normal people would be utterly astonished by.

And it is utter crap. These people are also generally utterly clueless about nutrition. Granted, most people are, but most people heard the constant refrain about eating balanced meals and know what a vegetable is, and wind up stumbling into something that's not utterly awful for you. If somebody is morbidly obese, it's pretty safe to assume that everything in their diet is sugary, processed crap.

Eat a balanced diet. Eat real food. It's that farking simple, and everything else will follow.
 
2012-09-23 12:18:11 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: jayphat: I have a problem where she encourages schools to write policies that prohibit kids from bringing their own meals.

When has that ever happened?


From the First Lady? Never.

He's conflating her with an out of control principal that never actually did it and unfortunately the press release clarifying wtf was going on from the school has been nearly scoured from the internet, and the only full copy is a post in a fark threadabout it.

Page 19 has another reference to that letter.

Want to know how to get kids eating new fruits and veggies? Offer them as snacks starting in Kindergarten, and continue that new produce snack time throughout elementary school. It's not going to fix things over night.

Sadly, our elementary school jog-a-thon fund raiser has been getting less and less money, because the kids can't do as many laps as in years past.
 
2012-09-23 12:18:13 PM

Gwyrddu: Should we be shaming obese children more?

In my opinion, yes.


No, we should be shaming their ignorant, abusive parents.
 
2012-09-23 12:18:53 PM
The most obese child I have ever seen was an 11-year-old who weighed 460 lbs. I'm dead serious. He came to medical attention when he caught a hideous pneumonia and nearly died.

I would love to see all these subsidies for meat, dairy, corn, and other foodstuffs that we Americans consume FAR too much of ended and traded for broccoli, bean, and lentil subsidies. Stop making shiatty food cheap, and make the stuff that's better for you cost less. Enhance distribution of vegetables to inner cities (easier when it's cheap). Why we, as a society, allow the government to spend money to overproduce crap that makes people obese escapes me. Especially when we then turn around and whine that everyone's too fat and the government needs to fix it.
 
2012-09-23 12:19:11 PM
I had some friends that weighed 240-250 when we were 13. Of course, they were over 6 feet tall.
 
2012-09-23 12:20:05 PM

cptjeff: Actually, some recent studies (too lazy to pull up a link, but they're real) have suggested pretty strongly that exercise isn't particularly closely connected to weight gain or loss- most of the calories you use are used for cellular maintenance and replacement and whatnot, and the percentage burned for energy is actually pretty low, and pretty consistent across various activity levels (they worked with a tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa to get this- this isn't a study of desk jockeys versus slightly more active college students). Basically, you can shock your system for temporary gain by dramatically changing your exercise level, but you're not going to be able to sustain those losses long term, unless you're on the far end of the bell curve (we're talking Micheal Phelps here, and if he stops those insane workouts, he's gonna balloon very quickly).



But you are assuming that weight loss is the ultimate goal, when the ultimate goal should be to become healthy as possible. In that regard, exercise is more important than just the effect of weight control. People can be a normal weight and unhealthy if they don't exercise, or they can be overweight and still in good health if they exercise regularly.

A couple of things is that I don't think are addressed is first off that muscle burns energy even at rest (and weighs more than fat incidentally), so that needs to be added to the equation for the effects of exercise. Secondly, no mention is made of the effects of exercise of appetite control.

Altogether, if your goal is to really become healthier, diet and exercise should be used in conjunction, instead of it being one or the other.
 
2012-09-23 12:20:15 PM

cptjeff:
Actually, some recent studies (too lazy to pull up a link, but they're real) have suggested pretty strongly that exercise isn't particularly closely connected to weight gain or loss- most of the calories you use are used for cellular maintenance and replacement and whatnot, and the percentage burned for energy is actually pretty low, and pretty consistent across various activity levels (they worked with a tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa to get this- this isn't a study of desk jockeys versus slightly more active college students). Basically, you can shock your system for temporary gain by dramatically changing your exercise level, but you're not going to be able to sustain those losses long term,


It's important to determine the level of exercise, here. Pushing yourself hard doesn't burn off as much fat as working for a long time at the 30-50% level.

I remember an article about this from one of the cycling magazines a while back. The writer (it was Captain Dondo, who was an awesome writer) had a long battle with weight, which led to many amusing stories regarding hub and crank bearing life. Then he went on a cycling trip with family instead of diehard bikie nuts, so he was cruising along at low instensity instead of jammin' along. Result: Pounds melted off at a fascinating rate.

The mechanism, as I recall, is that you need to be using calories, but past a certain point of exertion, your body strictly works off of blood sugar because it doesn't have the time/resources to convert fat to energy.

So you need to exercise to use stored energy, but you can't exert yourself.
 
2012-09-23 12:20:16 PM

WhippingBoy: fluffy2097: WhippingBoy: The two most offensive words in the English language are "personal responsibility".

The least offensive phrase in American politics today is "We're taking away your freedom for your own good".

Hey, as long as you don't cry "foul" or expect other people to change for your benefit when the logical consequences of your personal choices come back to bite you in the ass, people should be free to do whatever they want.

If you don't want to feel bad because someone calls you fat, lose the goddamn weightpoor, get some goddamn money; don't try to force others to change their actions and be artificially "nice" to you.


Same song, second verse.
 
2012-09-23 12:21:24 PM
Parents are not brought up until the comments. Kids don't get that way in a vacuum.
 
2012-09-23 12:23:16 PM

Snort: Parents are not brought up until the comments. Kids don't get that way in a vacuum.


True, but most of these kids have to try to change their lifestyle in SPITE of the parents. I've seen a hell of a lot of these families where everyone is obese, but the kids are in real trouble. The parents, more often than not, refuse to change their lifestyles or the kind of foods they bring into the house. Then they blame the kids for being fat. It's ridiculously dysfunctional.
 
2012-09-23 12:23:40 PM

Maxor: How are these people doing it?

You have to eat thousands of dollars of food per month to put on that kind of weight. I'm 6'3" eat 4500 calories per day and my weight has stabilized at around 200 lbs, (in stead of dropping like a rock when I cut back a little on food.). If I'm not careful to eat enough I find that after 4 or 5 days I burn through my body fat reserves and start loosing weight to about 165 at which point either my calorie intake has to go back up or I get lethargic and light headed as well as looking like skin and bones.


I bet they're doing it through cheap starches that have high glycemic indexes, like potatoes and pasta. Low income people eat a lot of these because they're so cheap.

For example, a box of pasta that contains 8 servings can cost as little as $1.50. Each serving is only 3/4 a cup and has 210 calories. It is really easy to eat 2 cups, which is 560 calories -- and that doesn't include the calories from the sauce.

And they're likely eating lots of fast food and soda (I bet these kids are probably packing in 300 to 400 calories a day alone in soda).

Lastly, I suspect they eat lots of processed meat/chicken (e.g. sandwich meats).
 
2012-09-23 12:23:53 PM

Deedeemarz: There is a kid on our cul de sac who is in fourth or fifth grade and is not allowed to leave it!! They must think the rest of us on the block are downright negligent. They probably think I am abusive as my 13 y/o takes his backpack and "survival gear" into the woods for the day to play. He and his friends build shelters, play in the woods, fish and swim in the bayou and ponds, trap rabbits, play king of the hill etc. This kid rides a bike in the circle for like five minutes before heading inside. He isn't allowed to play sports with the other boys because they don't wear safety gear (it's pick up games of basketball, football, baseball, and dodgeball for jeebus sake--not knife throwing). The kid is chubby and awkward. The parents actually had a talk with all the neighborhood boys about playing gently with him not horsing around--so of course he is completely ostracized now. I blame parents. I see a lot of kids whose every move is monitored or planned and many who are coddled to such an extent that they are not able to do much activity for fear of some sort of disabling injury....


I love hearing that other parents are getting their kids outside and active. Organized sports for kids are ok, but exclusionary to people without the money to put their kids in everything (like me).

All the kids on our block are out playing, riding bikes and running around constantly. It's hard to keep them inside in the summer.
 
2012-09-23 12:23:55 PM
I grew up in south lousiana, home of the good fatty food. And I love it all but.

My mother at a very young age conditioned me to like salads as a snack, cole slaw with a bit of vinegar and oil, fresh juice to drink, and these became comfort foods for me.

We had pies, cakes, you name it in the house, and I was allowed to eat whatever I wanted, but every time I turned around she always had something fresh from my grandfathers garden to try.

Also, when I was in high school no matter what we did wrong we had to take a lap, even during class.
 
2012-09-23 12:24:05 PM

MajorGroove: The most obese child I have ever seen was an 11-year-old who weighed 460 lbs. I'm dead serious. He came to medical attention when he caught a hideous pneumonia and nearly died.

I would love to see all these subsidies for meat, dairy, corn, and other foodstuffs that we Americans consume FAR too much of ended and traded for broccoli, bean, and lentil subsidies. Stop making shiatty food cheap, and make the stuff that's better for you cost less. Enhance distribution of vegetables to inner cities (easier when it's cheap). Why we, as a society, allow the government to spend money to overproduce crap that makes people obese escapes me. Especially when we then turn around and whine that everyone's too fat and the government needs to fix it.


Amen brother! And anything that makes my lentil soup cheaper (seriously- I'm about addicted to the stuff) is good by me. And as a public policy matter, it's a great idea.

Of course, our great American crap food conglomerates would probably find a way to strip the nutrition out of a bean or lentil... Still, if I could get a salty snack with actual protein (besides peanuts or beef jerky), I'd be over the moon.
 
2012-09-23 12:24:05 PM

MajorGroove: The most obese child I have ever seen was an 11-year-old who weighed 460 lbs. I'm dead serious. He came to medical attention when he caught a hideous pneumonia and nearly died.

I would love to see all these subsidies for meat, dairy, corn, and other foodstuffs that we Americans consume FAR too much of ended and traded for broccoli, bean, and lentil subsidies. Stop making shiatty food cheap, and make the stuff that's better for you cost less. Enhance distribution of vegetables to inner cities (easier when it's cheap). Why we, as a society, allow the government to spend money to overproduce crap that makes people obese escapes me. Especially when we then turn around and whine that everyone's too fat and the government needs to fix it.


Don't blame the farmers for bad parenting. Meat, dairy, and corn can be perfectly healthy ya know...
 
2012-09-23 12:24:06 PM
Le Sigh...

img267.imageshack.us
 
2012-09-23 12:24:34 PM

my lip balm addiction: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.

/fark the GOP fatties
//may you all die in an Oreo-encrusted Hell


I had fun with that. I kept calling Laura Bush a commie pinko like Michelle because she tried to get kids to read, after all. And reading's dangerous to the wing nut agenda.
 
2012-09-23 12:25:51 PM

cptjeff: The conclusion? Diet, diet, diet.


Diet encompasses your entire lifestyle. A diet it not something you go on for six months and then expect to be able to keep your results after you go back to your old ways. A diet is a lifestyle change. And that includes exercising.
 
2012-09-23 12:25:56 PM

cptjeff: The conclusion? Diet, diet, diet. Your diet drives your metabolism, your diet drives what raw material is there for your body to work with- some stuff basically goes straight to fat (surprisingly, fat's not included there, we're talking some classes of sugars- apart from cholesterol, most fats aren't particularly bad for you), some stuff, like alcohol, has to be burned off and never really contributes energy to anything, which is why it saps you of energy- in burning it, your body is getting a lot less useful energy per calorie than it gets with real food- which is also why those calorie counts for hard liquor are more or less useless. Vitamins come into play to help your metabolism as well, which is an excellent reason to eat your veggies.


Thank you. The whole "Calories in* - Calories out** = weight gain/loss***" has always struck me as bizarrely oversimplified to the point of uselessness.

*: that I vaguely approximated based on some standard estimations, probably without even weighing ANYTHING I shoved down my gullet all day
**: that I vaguely approximated based on what level of physical activity I *think* I accomplished
***: because my only goal is to move the number on the scale in my preferred direction, not look sexier/be healther/lift heavier things/etc
 
2012-09-23 12:26:21 PM

MajorGroove: The most obese child I have ever seen was an 11-year-old who weighed 460 lbs. I'm dead serious. He came to medical attention when he caught a hideous pneumonia and nearly died.

I would love to see all these subsidies for meat, dairy, corn, and other foodstuffs that we Americans consume FAR too much of ended and traded for broccoli, bean, and lentil subsidies. Stop making shiatty food cheap, and make the stuff that's better for you cost less. Enhance distribution of vegetables to inner cities (easier when it's cheap). Why we, as a society, allow the government to spend money to overproduce crap that makes people obese escapes me. Especially when we then turn around and whine that everyone's too fat and the government needs to fix it.


I noted the other day that it would be easier for me to lose weight if they didn't make cheeseburgers for a dollar.
 
2012-09-23 12:29:13 PM

cptjeff: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

Actually, some recent studies (too lazy to pull up a link, but they're real) have suggested pretty strongly that exercise isn't particularly closely connected to weight gain or loss- most of the calories you use are used for cellular maintenance and replacement and whatnot, and the percentage burned for energy is actually pretty low, and pretty consistent across various activity levels (they worked with a tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa to get this- this isn't a study of desk jockeys versus slightly more active college students). Basically, you can shock your system for temporary gain by dramatically changing your exercise level, but you're not going to be able to sustain those losses long term, unless you're on the far end of the bell curve (we're talking Micheal Phelps here, and if he stops those insane workouts, he's gonna balloon very quickly).

The conclusion? Diet...


I have nothing against a healthy diet and any personal trainer worth their salt will tell you weight loss is 80% diet, but anyone discouraging or talking shiat about exercise needs to be biatch slapped. Most Americans at this moment are on some kind of a diet (they always are) and most Americans are still sadly overweight. Americans, particularly American children, could use a lot more exercise.

I'm a pt familiar with all the research pros and cons. I've lost weight a bunch of times in my life and only kept it off with exercise. I dont feel like a big debate...just dont be one of those idiots who tells obese, super unhealthy people not to bother with exercise cause its useless (even if you think it wont speed up their weight loss..though you are wrong).
 
2012-09-23 12:31:37 PM
Losing weight is hard. Hormone levels can take years to return to normal. That said, it's real damn easy to not get that fat. A BMI of 40+?
 
2012-09-23 12:31:42 PM
I think we're treating kids even softer these days. I was a big kid in school. I was tall so it kind of evened out but I still had a gut on me. Could I still walk up stairs? Yes. Did I have debilitating joint pain that prevented me from getting from class to class? No. That's because, in spite of my weight, I still had some kind of muscle tone and I wasn't completely weak and powerless. I would say the only pain I had was when I had to walk from one end of the school building to the other. I would get shin-splints that hurt like hell. But that is something that can effect even the most physically fit and I have since learned that stretching before a long walk alleviates shin-splints all together.

So let's stop babying these kids. They're obese, that's a problem, but it's not going to be solved by treating them like invalids. I'm not saying that we should run them down like dogs but a little tough love and motivation can actually go a long way.

And can we take the focus off of fat kids for a moment and concentrate on the dwindling IQ of our kids? I work in a call center and I have talked to younger sounding people (early 20's) that could not pronounce the word "Initialization" and I have talked to people that did not know what "premises" meant.

"Do you have a dog on the premises that the technician needs to be aware of?"

"On the what?"
 
2012-09-23 12:32:32 PM

elysive: Americans, particularly American children, could use a lot more exercise.


The fascinating thing I've found about kids who exercise a lot as children, they stay healthier as adults. If you develop your cardiovascular system through hard exercise as a kid, that shiat will stay with you for easily half your life.
 
2012-09-23 12:32:34 PM

MajorGroove: Snort: Parents are not brought up until the comments. Kids don't get that way in a vacuum.

True, but most of these kids have to try to change their lifestyle in SPITE of the parents. I've seen a hell of a lot of these families where everyone is obese, but the kids are in real trouble. The parents, more often than not, refuse to change their lifestyles or the kind of foods they bring into the house. Then they blame the kids for being fat. It's ridiculously dysfunctional.


I have a friend who had an obese mother who overfed her kids so that she can pass off her weight as genetics, at least according to him. He overcompensates now with training as a Muay Thai fighter.
 
2012-09-23 12:33:08 PM

LoneWolf343:

Same song, second verse.


Processed crap can be a lot more expensive than raw materials for making food. When I was slummin' it, the 25-pound box of rice, 99-cent 10 pound bag of potatoes, etc. were my best friends.

The problem, then, becomes that it takes a lot more effort to make food, and you need to have the time to do it. Effort is a personal problem, while I can empathize with the people who are working 12-14 hours a day trying to keep things together.
 
2012-09-23 12:33:27 PM

cptjeff: MajorGroove: The most obese child I have ever seen was an 11-year-old who weighed 460 lbs. I'm dead serious. He came to medical attention when he caught a hideous pneumonia and nearly died.

I would love to see all these subsidies for meat, dairy, corn, and other foodstuffs that we Americans consume FAR too much of ended and traded for broccoli, bean, and lentil subsidies. Stop making shiatty food cheap, and make the stuff that's better for you cost less. Enhance distribution of vegetables to inner cities (easier when it's cheap). Why we, as a society, allow the government to spend money to overproduce crap that makes people obese escapes me. Especially when we then turn around and whine that everyone's too fat and the government needs to fix it.

Amen brother! And anything that makes my lentil soup cheaper (seriously- I'm about addicted to the stuff) is good by me. And as a public policy matter, it's a great idea.

Of course, our great American crap food conglomerates would probably find a way to strip the nutrition out of a bean or lentil... Still, if I could get a salty snack with actual protein (besides peanuts or beef jerky), I'd be over the moon.



If you were a hot chick I would help you out with that...
 
2012-09-23 12:34:33 PM

incendi: cptjeff: The conclusion? Diet, diet, diet. Your diet drives your metabolism, your diet drives what raw material is there for your body to work with- some stuff basically goes straight to fat (surprisingly, fat's not included there, we're talking some classes of sugars- apart from cholesterol, most fats aren't particularly bad for you), some stuff, like alcohol, has to be burned off and never really contributes energy to anything, which is why it saps you of energy- in burning it, your body is getting a lot less useful energy per calorie than it gets with real food- which is also why those calorie counts for hard liquor are more or less useless. Vitamins come into play to help your metabolism as well, which is an excellent reason to eat your veggies.

Thank you. The whole "Calories in* - Calories out** = weight gain/loss***" has always struck me as bizarrely oversimplified to the point of uselessness.

*: that I vaguely approximated based on some standard estimations, probably without even weighing ANYTHING I shoved down my gullet all day
**: that I vaguely approximated based on what level of physical activity I *think* I accomplished
***: because my only goal is to move the number on the scale in my preferred direction, not look sexier/be healther/lift heavier things/etc


I suspect that one has gained so much traction because it makes people feel better about their big macs and sodas, and makes it easier for everyone to justify making every farking food in this country out of corn.


The My Little Pony Killer: cptjeff: The conclusion? Diet, diet, diet.

Diet encompasses your entire lifestyle. A diet it not something you go on for six months and then expect to be able to keep your results after you go back to your old ways. A diet is a lifestyle change. And that includes exercising.


I think people like me who have been raised on healthy diets and find them easy to maintain underestimate the difficulty of making that shift. But it really doesn't have to include much exercise- that's not as important a component as people often think it is. I maintain a really good form sitting at a desk all day, even though I play hockey about once a week. It will help and absolutely doesn't hurt (and would probably be useful when trying to lose weight just to get your metabolism jump started a little), but it's really not all that critical.
 
2012-09-23 12:35:10 PM

MajorGroove: Snort: Parents are not brought up until the comments. Kids don't get that way in a vacuum.

True, but most of these kids have to try to change their lifestyle in SPITE of the parents. I've seen a hell of a lot of these families where everyone is obese, but the kids are in real trouble. The parents, more often than not, refuse to change their lifestyles or the kind of foods they bring into the house. Then they blame the kids for being fat. It's ridiculously dysfunctional.


So we agree that parents are the major player in the problem.

Schools and, by extension, government is severely limited in what it can do.
 
2012-09-23 12:37:11 PM

cptjeff: I think people like me who have been raised on healthy diets and find them easy to maintain underestimate the difficulty of making that shift. But it really doesn't have to include much exercise- that's not as important a component as people often think it is. I maintain a really good form sitting at a desk all day, even though I play hockey about once a week. It will help and absolutely doesn't hurt (and would probably be useful when trying to lose weight just to get your metabolism jump started a little), but it's really not all that critical.


Your body chemistry is not equal to everybody else's body chemistry though. And telling people that exercise is pointless is an incredibly disingenuous way of going about the whole thing.
 
2012-09-23 12:37:42 PM
FTFA: "Her patients include a 13-year-old who weighs 400 pounds; a child whose teeth are so rotted she can't bite into carrots; and many preteens who are diabetic. Today, Hancock is examining Derek Lyles, 13. He's 4 feet 11 inches and weighs 256 pounds."

Waiting patiently...

static.guim.co.uk
 
2012-09-23 12:38:14 PM

EducatedBum: And can we take the focus off of fat kids for a moment and concentrate on the dwindling IQ of our kids? I work in a call center and I have talked to younger sounding people (early 20's) that could not pronounce the word "Initialization" and I have talked to people that did not know what "premises" meant.

"Do you have a dog on the premises that the technician needs to be aware of?"

"On the what?"



You are mistaking education with IQ when they are not the same thing. IQ has actually been consistently going since the IQ test was invented for a number of reasons, but you complaining about a specific vocabulary problem from people who probably don't read much if at all, which may be why they are working in a call center instead of at a better job.
 
2012-09-23 12:38:19 PM
And yes, exercise most definitely IS an important part of living a healthy lifestyle. You can be a beanpole who eats all of his vegetables, and still drop dead of a coronary because you spent most of your adult life sitting at a computer desk.
 
2012-09-23 12:38:33 PM

WhippingBoy: Gwyrddu: Should we be shaming obese children more?

In my opinion, yes.

No. You're not allowed to make anyone feel bad about anything anymore, no matter how much they deserve it.


In most cases blame the parents. You can't blame a kid for making poor choices when the parents are not showing them correct choices.

Fat and lazy parents have fat and lazy kids. Not the kids fault. They're kids. Just like you can't blame kids with fetal alcohol syndrome for having it.

Shaming the kid just makes it worse. Shaming the parents into helping their kids might work.
 
2012-09-23 12:39:17 PM
This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on. Hancock hopes eating meals at school will help Derek get his weight under control.

I'm 6-7 pounds over what I should be, but I would be a lot more (and have been) if I snacked whenever I felt like it. Avoiding it when you're hungry is easier said then done. So you know what I do? I don't keep my freakin' fridge stocked! Not with anything I can snack on, anyway; just things that require some work to prepare.

I also was lighter and fit when I just got an hour of exercise a week. (That is, getting off my arse instead of fapping and being on Fark.)

Blaming the parents here is not just speculation or ideology: they caused this, and they could fix it.

Let's call this what it is: child abuse.
 
2012-09-23 12:39:55 PM

fluffy2097: elysive: Americans, particularly American children, could use a lot more exercise.

The fascinating thing I've found about kids who exercise a lot as children, they stay healthier as adults. If you develop your cardiovascular system through hard exercise as a kid, that shiat will stay with you for easily half your life.


This too. I'm 34, and no matter how hard I try, I can't GET fat. This is probably because I never was fat in my developing years.

One more reason why it's so important for children to be healthy. Could you imagine how hard it'd be to lose weight if you were 400lb at 13? Not impossible, but not possible without a very strict lifestyle requiring a lot of discipline... which is something else you tend to not have as an adult if you don't get it as a kid.
 
2012-09-23 12:40:46 PM
www.andrew.cmu.edu
 
2012-09-23 12:40:46 PM
When I was in school we got healthy school lunches, the joke was we had spinach when the grass was cut. We had milk, juice, water, or iced tea.

Also, no matter how fat, cripple, infirm, sick, left for dead, you had to have an hour of PE each day. Nary a doctors excuse could get you out of it.

And if a fat kid got teased and started crying, usually a a coach would sit them down and say "Look kid, I know it hurts, but they are teasing you because you are fat, show them you are a better person, let me help you design a program that we can get you on to trim down a bit, and youll even feel better about yourself, I am still gonna call you fatty in front of the group, but come to my office, and we will get you started on something and have that weight off in no time."

Of course today that coach would be perhaps fired, ostracized, and put in jail.
 
2012-09-23 12:42:37 PM
A dense book not for the feint of heart:

ecx.images-amazon.com



More accessible, but written in a bit of an insulting tone:

ecx.images-amazon.com
 
2012-09-23 12:42:46 PM

Fark_Guy_Rob: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I think it's safe to say these kids mentioned in the article don't have parents. They have sperm/egg donors that are either negligent or abusive.


Or parents who are so poor that they have to work all the time and don't have the free time to supervise every minute of their children's lives and scrutinize what their children eat.
 
2012-09-23 12:42:58 PM
If it wasn't for the slow fat kids, Dodge Ball wouldn't be as much fun.
 
2012-09-23 12:44:22 PM

Mister Peejay: LoneWolf343:

Same song, second verse.

Processed crap can be a lot more expensive than raw materials for making food. When I was slummin' it, the 25-pound box of rice, 99-cent 10 pound bag of potatoes, etc. were my best friends.

The problem, then, becomes that it takes a lot more effort to make food, and you need to have the time to do it. Effort is a personal problem, while I can empathize with the people who are working 12-14 hours a day trying to keep things together.


Yep. Dry beans (can get for $1-1.50 a lb), dry brown rice (2 lb bag for about $2.50), canned jack mackerel (loaded with omega 3s, about $1.75 for a 15 oz can), canned sardines (loaded with omega 3s, 70 cents for a tin), and potatoes ($2 for a 10 lb bag here) are all cheap and ridiculously healthy. There are more than just that, too, but just for example.

I eat a ridiculous amount due to activity level and am a cheapskate, so I always look for "poverty meals" that are healthy.
 
2012-09-23 12:44:39 PM

gerbilpox: I don't keep my freakin' fridge stocked! Not with anything I can snack on, anyway; just things that require some work to prepare.


I do this, and holy goddamn fark is it annoying when you get a snack craving. It's not so bad these days, but when I was just starting the whole not-eating-shiatty-food-ALL-the-time thing it was terrible.
 
2012-09-23 12:45:32 PM
Eat real food. Hard to chub up on vegetables. Fritos, OTOH, will do it fast.
 
2012-09-23 12:48:51 PM

elysive: cptjeff: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

Actually, some recent studies (too lazy to pull up a link, but they're real) have suggested pretty strongly that exercise isn't particularly closely connected to weight gain or loss- most of the calories you use are used for cellular maintenance and replacement and whatnot, and the percentage burned for energy is actually pretty low, and pretty consistent across various activity levels (they worked with a tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa to get this- this isn't a study of desk jockeys versus slightly more active college students). Basically, you can shock your system for temporary gain by dramatically changing your exercise level, but you're not going to be able to sustain those losses long term, unless you're on the far end of the bell curve (we're talking Micheal Phelps here, and if he stops those insane workouts, he's gonna balloon very quickly).

The conclusion? Diet...

I have nothing against a healthy diet and any personal trainer worth their salt will tell you weight loss is 80% diet, but anyone discouraging or talking shiat about exercise needs to be biatch slapped. Most Americans at this moment are on some kind of a diet (they always are) and most Americans are still sadly overweight. Americans, particularly American children, could use a lot more exercise.

I'm a pt familiar with all the research pros and cons. I've lost weight a bunch of times in my life and only kept it off with exercise. I dont feel like a big debate...just dont be one of those idiots who tells obese, super unhealthy people not to bother with exercise cause its useless (even if you think it wont speed up their weight loss..though you are wrong).


Exercise is useful, but it's not particularly critical, and not too long ago, I would have parroted the same line. But the study I saw (here's a link to the NYT fitness blog coverage, and another) involved researchers collecting the urine (all of it) of members of a hunter gatherer tribe, and using a chemical analysis to determine exactly how many calories were burned in that exercise, and compared the results to sedentary office workers, and they found that exercise wasn't a large factor.

My personal experience bears that out too- apart from hockey once a week, I'm sedentary. I sit in one place all day at a computer, or sit in a different spot watching TV or reading a book. I'm also incredibly fit. It's not just being young, I know a lot of fat young people. I just eat a healthy diet made from real food.

I'm not knocking the value of exercise from nothing. I was convinced by scientific research, and found that those explanations fit some of the patterns I've seen much better than the traditional, 'cut calories, exercise more' model.
 
2012-09-23 12:49:19 PM

BitwiseShift: Doesn't care much for schools.

[i894.photobucket.com image 200x300]


If you'd bother to watch a few of the Youtube vids out there during his meeting with school teachers and union officials, you'd notice he doesn't have a problem with schools or teachers. It's the corrupt union that wouldn't budget on a 1% increase in pay for ONE YEAR to help balance the budget. So instead teachers get laid off. 1% for one year.

I know being a liberal is all about hating on people who refuse to spend money with reckless abandon, and yelling out Nazi when someone doesn't agree with you. But it would be appreciated if just once in awhile you'd put your ignorance and your idiocy aside and research a subject before slamming a politician you don't agree with.
 
2012-09-23 12:49:21 PM
I am in favor of taking the obese children, smothering them with honey, and then releasing them into a ring with hungry carnivores. Furthermore, these spectacles should be televised.

Alternatively we could take all the obese children and go the Japanese route and induct them into "The Program" and have them battle it out on an island until only one is left standing.
 
2012-09-23 12:49:36 PM

Mister Peejay: It's important to determine the level of exercise, here. Pushing yourself hard doesn't burn off as much fat as working for a long time at the 30-50% level.

I remember an article about this from one of the cycling magazines a while back. The writer (it was Captain Dondo, who was an awesome writer) had a long battle with weight, which led to many amusing stories regarding hub and crank bearing life. Then he went on a cycling trip with family instead of diehard bikie nuts, so he was cruising along at low instensity instead of jammin' along. Result: Pounds melted off at a fascinating rate.

The mechanism, as I recall, is that you need to be using calories, but past a certain point of exertion, your body strictly works off of blood sugar because it doesn't have the time/resources to convert fat to energy.

So you need to exercise to use stored energy, but you can't exert yourself.


I dont know what youre going on about, but it sounds like youre parroting someone who was trying to promote the whole "fat burning zone". Most personal trainers ignore that zone because you burn so few calories, it is a waste of time. High intensity workouts burn a smaller fraction of cal from fat but bc they burn more cal altogether, you still end up burning more fat.

Also imagine if you could burn 2000 cal in one hour long workout...forget if your body used sugar or fat during the workout...thats a 2k deficit. Where do you think your body is going to get energy to get through the rest of the day? Food and fat stores will be gobbled up to make up for the deficit and there would probably be a delayed thermogenic calorie burn due to the intensity of the workout.

Being constantly active at a low intensity isnt a bad thing, but its not the most efficient way to burn calories/lose weight.

/you're welcome
 
2012-09-23 12:49:40 PM

meat0918: Deedeemarz: There is a kid on our cul de sac who is in fourth or fifth grade and is not allowed to leave it!! They must think the rest of us on the block are downright negligent. They probably think I am abusive as my 13 y/o takes his backpack and "survival gear" into the woods for the day to play. He and his friends build shelters, play in the woods, fish and swim in the bayou and ponds, trap rabbits, play king of the hill etc. This kid rides a bike in the circle for like five minutes before heading inside. He isn't allowed to play sports with the other boys because they don't wear safety gear (it's pick up games of basketball, football, baseball, and dodgeball for jeebus sake--not knife throwing). The kid is chubby and awkward. The parents actually had a talk with all the neighborhood boys about playing gently with him not horsing around--so of course he is completely ostracized now. I blame parents. I see a lot of kids whose every move is monitored or planned and many who are coddled to such an extent that they are not able to do much activity for fear of some sort of disabling injury....

I love hearing that other parents are getting their kids outside and active. Organized sports for kids are ok, but exclusionary to people without the money to put their kids in everything (like me).

All the kids on our block are out playing, riding bikes and running around constantly. It's hard to keep them inside in the summer.


My 13 yr old son plays soccer with the city. It's $65 a season. There are scholarships for low income families.
The Y also has sports teams and massive discounts for low incomes.

My 10 yr old isn't sporty at all. I put him in summer track with the city. Holy heck, the kid is SLOW! But, he ran a lot.
Now, he's riding his bike to school everyday and he plays in the yard a ton.

Kids need the freedom of play.
 
2012-09-23 12:52:23 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: cptjeff: I think people like me who have been raised on healthy diets and find them easy to maintain underestimate the difficulty of making that shift. But it really doesn't have to include much exercise- that's not as important a component as people often think it is. I maintain a really good form sitting at a desk all day, even though I play hockey about once a week. It will help and absolutely doesn't hurt (and would probably be useful when trying to lose weight just to get your metabolism jump started a little), but it's really not all that critical.

Your body chemistry is not equal to everybody else's body chemistry though. And telling people that exercise is pointless is an incredibly disingenuous way of going about the whole thing.



This isn't just me, this is science.

Sorry, but forcing fat people to eat better is going to get much better results than forcing them to exercise.
 
2012-09-23 12:53:45 PM
It saddens me that while America wallows in morbid obesity, there are starving people in the third world who still cling to primitive religious taboos against hunting and eating fat people.
 
2012-09-23 12:54:37 PM

Deedeemarz: There is a kid on our cul de sac who is in fourth or fifth grade and is not allowed to leave it!! They must think the rest of us on the block are downright negligent. They probably think I am abusive as my 13 y/o takes his backpack and "survival gear" into the woods for the day to play. He and his friends build shelters, play in the woods, fish and swim in the bayou and ponds, trap rabbits, play king of the hill etc. This kid rides a bike in the circle for like five minutes before heading inside. He isn't allowed to play sports with the other boys because they don't wear safety gear (it's pick up games of basketball, football, baseball, and dodgeball for jeebus sake--not knife throwing). The kid is chubby and awkward. The parents actually had a talk with all the neighborhood boys about playing gently with him not horsing around--so of course he is completely ostracized now. I blame parents. I see a lot of kids whose every move is monitored or planned and many who are coddled to such an extent that they are not able to do much activity for fear of some sort of disabling injury....



This sort of bubble-wrapped-kid-who-can't-leave-his-mother's-sight has become frighteningly normal, at least where we live. If you leave your kid unsupervised for even 10 minutes, it's child abuse and you run the risk of a visit from Child Protective Services. It doesn't matter how safe your neighborhood is (and ours is very safe), you're not allowed to let children play unsupervised.
 
2012-09-23 12:55:21 PM
asp.elitefts.net
 
2012-09-23 12:56:34 PM

cptjeff: Exercise is useful, but it's not particularly critical, and not too long ago, I would have parroted the same line. But the study I saw (here's a link to the NYT fitness blog coverage, and another) involved researchers collecting the urine (all of it) of members of a hunter gatherer tribe, and using a chemical analysis to determine exactly how many calories were burned in that exercise, and compared the results to sedentary office workers, and they found that exercise wasn't a large factor.


Well that would be that if burning calories were the only health effect of exercise, but it is not.

Incidentally, when hunter-gatherers first settled down in one place, life expectancy dropped precipitously, and that was probably due to both a decrease in diet variety and exercise.
 
2012-09-23 12:57:30 PM
One of my proudest Mom moments? My son went off to college this year. He was telling me about his first independent grocery shopping trip. He bought salad fixins.

/So proud.
 
2012-09-23 12:59:26 PM

my lip balm addiction: I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.


Here's the typical conservative reaction to any proposed improvements in basic dietary health:
dl.dropbox.com
 
2012-09-23 01:01:34 PM

MuonNeutrino: And this is why we have these sorts of problems. It's not 'politically correct' these days to point it out, but this isn't a 'issue' to be 'managed'.


This. If we're going to treat obesity like a disease than we should admit that in almost every case it can be cured and should be treated. Counseling for the child and parents, diet and exercise.
 
2012-09-23 01:04:06 PM

Mister Peejay: cptjeff:
Actually, some recent studies (too lazy to pull up a link, but they're real) have suggested pretty strongly that exercise isn't particularly closely connected to weight gain or loss- most of the calories you use are used for cellular maintenance and replacement and whatnot, and the percentage burned for energy is actually pretty low, and pretty consistent across various activity levels (they worked with a tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa to get this- this isn't a study of desk jockeys versus slightly more active college students). Basically, you can shock your system for temporary gain by dramatically changing your exercise level, but you're not going to be able to sustain those losses long term,

It's important to determine the level of exercise, here. Pushing yourself hard doesn't burn off as much fat as working for a long time at the 30-50% level.

I remember an article about this from one of the cycling magazines a while back. The writer (it was Captain Dondo, who was an awesome writer) had a long battle with weight, which led to many amusing stories regarding hub and crank bearing life. Then he went on a cycling trip with family instead of diehard bikie nuts, so he was cruising along at low instensity instead of jammin' along. Result: Pounds melted off at a fascinating rate.

The mechanism, as I recall, is that you need to be using calories, but past a certain point of exertion, your body strictly works off of blood sugar because it doesn't have the time/resources to convert fat to energy.

So you need to exercise to use stored energy, but you can't exert yourself.


There is a small grain of truth to what you are saying; but I'm pretty sure the conclusion is wrong.
 
2012-09-23 01:04:32 PM
Thanks to new expectorations, obese children are eating father's margarine in school.
 
2012-09-23 01:04:45 PM
 
2012-09-23 01:09:06 PM

theflatline: My mother at a very young age conditioned me to like salads as a snack, cole slaw with a bit of vinegar and oil, fresh juice to drink, and these became comfort foods for me.


My mother would cut celery and carrots into sticks and put them in the fridge in a glass of water so they didn't dry out. It became the quickie snack of choice when my borhter and I were out running around, basically because they were cold and easily available.
 
2012-09-23 01:09:40 PM

FizixJunkee: Fark_Guy_Rob: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I think it's safe to say these kids mentioned in the article don't have parents. They have sperm/egg donors that are either negligent or abusive.

Or parents who are so poor that they have to work all the time and don't have the free time to supervise every minute of their children's lives and scrutinize what their children eat.


That would absolutely met the definition of negligence. It doesn't matter if you are too busy for your kids because you are doing crack or because you are saving lives in a 3rd world village. Bottom line is, if you are so busy that you can't see to the basic safety and well being of your children; that's negligence.
 
2012-09-23 01:11:16 PM

cptjeff: I have nothing against a healthy diet and any personal trainer worth their salt will tell you weight loss is 80% diet, but anyone discouraging or talking shiat about exercise needs to be biatch slapped. Most Americans at this moment are on some kind of a diet (they always are) and most Americans are still sadly overweight. Americans, particularly American children, could use a lot more exercise.

I'm a pt familiar with all the research pros and cons. I've lost weight a bunch of times in my life and only kept it off with exercise. I dont feel like a big debate...just dont be one of those idiots who tells obese, super unhealthy people not to bother with exercise cause its useless (even if you think it wont speed up their weight loss..though you are wrong).

Exercise is useful, but it's not particularly critical, and not too long ago, I would have parroted the same line. But the study I saw (here's a link ...


Sorry, but that poor summary of a study proves nothing and exercising once a week/eating an ok diet does not make you fit. You have a leg up health-wise on the people who never exercise at all, but you're seriously trying to brag to someone in the health industry that food is making you fit? lol

You might be able to retain some muscle mass and strength conditioning with a once weekly regimen but your heart cries for more exercise!

For the record, people in hunter gatherer societies rely on low intensity physical activities and energy conservation to survive. You arent going to see those people intentionally expending energy or losing fat the way we attempt to do daily at the gym. I dont see any good reason to use hunter gatherers in a metabolic study of this type since they rarely "exercise".
 
2012-09-23 01:14:33 PM
cptjeff:

some stuff, like alcohol, has to be burned off and never really contributes energy to anything

Bull. The ex told me I snore much more energetically after drinking half a pint of bourbon.

Otherwise I still say it's diet AND exercise. Since the ex got a new puppy who ain't learned to walk nicely on a leash yet and annoys the hell out of my 7 year old mutt I've had to walk them singly, and they each have enough energy to not be tired after a two mile sashay, and I have to walk[1] 8/10 of a mile to her place and the same back.[2] Some days I find myself walking 7 miles in one afternoon: one day I found a blister that doubled the size of my toe.

Despite eating & drinking at least as much as ever I've lost about 3 pounds in the past month, which might not sound like much but then my BMI has never been over 30.[3]

As for Michael Phelps, my youngest niece used to swim competitively at the same pool he uses but had to quit when her migraines got too bad; since then she's grown a noticeable figure. Too bad she's still under legal age, will always be related to me and already knows I'm a fat old ugly creep. [4]


[1] I quit driving and Lexington, KY doesn't have cross-town buses: Lextran uses a Radiating Spokes route pattern so you have to go downtown to the Transit Center to transfer and ride up another major street. To get from my place to the Bryan Station Kroger on the bus I have to travel south on Broadway and then north on Limestone (and vice-versa on the return trip), which takes an hour each way, when I'm just too tired or the weather sucks too much to walk a mile or so along New Circle. Then sometimes I mean to get just a few things but find they have good markdowns...

[2] It would be nice if the route home magically shortened after a long day but my mojo ain't been workin' that well lately.

[3] One chick hollered "People like you have no right to call yourselves FAT!"

[4] Obvious flame bait. My life is very dull.
 
2012-09-23 01:15:09 PM

Gwyrddu: Well that would be that if burning calories were the only health effect of exercise, but it is not.

Incidentally, when hunter-gatherers first settled down in one place, life expectancy dropped precipitously, and that was probably due to both a decrease in diet variety and exercise.


Fair enough, but in a discussion about fat people and weight loss, how many calories exercise really burns is a pretty important part of it. And if you read the Tanzina study, metabolism wasn't affected that much either, which is another justification for the role of exercise.

Face it- it's just not as useful as we've traditionally thought. Exercise is still an excellent way to get stronger and get some of the crap out of your system, but it's not gonna play as big a role in losing weight as you'd expect it to.

As for hunter gatherers settling, disease was another big factor, since agriculture allowed much greater concentrations of people. More concentrated waste led to less sanitary conditions, and people being packed more closely allowed bacteria to transfer to more people, more quickly.
 
2012-09-23 01:16:04 PM

AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.


My sister lives, literally, across the street from the school my seven-year-old nephew goes to, but her ex-husband insists the kid can't ride his bike there, but he's a drunken asshat, so she lets the kid ride anyway.
 
2012-09-23 01:17:35 PM
Her patients include... many preteens who are diabetic. Today, Hancock is examining Derek Lyles, 13. He's 4 feet 11 inches and weighs 256 pounds.

This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on.

Hancock hopes eating meals at school will help Derek get his weight under control.


Yes, because the best thing for someone pre-diabetic is to eat more muffins and cereal.
 
2012-09-23 01:18:42 PM

elysive: Mister Peejay: It's important to determine the level of exercise, here. Pushing yourself hard doesn't burn off as much fat as working for a long time at the 30-50% level.
...

I dont know what youre going on about, but it sounds like youre parroting someone who was trying to promote the whole "fat burning zone". Most personal trainers ignore that zone because you burn so few calories, it is a waste of time. High intensity workouts burn a smaller fraction of cal from fat but bc they burn more cal altogether, you still end up burning more fat.

Also imagine if you could burn 2000 cal in one hour long workout...forget if your body used sugar or fat during the workout...thats a 2k deficit. Where do you think your body is going to get energy to get through the rest of the day? Food and fat stores will be gobbled up to make up for the deficit and there would probably be a delayed thermogenic calorie burn due to the intensity of the workout.

Being constantly active at a low intensity isnt a bad thing, but its not the most efficient way to burn calories/lose weight.

/you're welcome


Agreed. I'm a professional in this field. There are several reasons why higher intensity exercise uses more energy. The simplest explanation is a mathematical equation, though. Energy used = work performed (oversimplifying, but not misleading). Now work is applying a force over a distance. If I apply a greater force over that distance, I need more energy to do the work. I have thus burned more "calories".

The other reasons have to do with how muscles work. You normally don't use very much of your muscle fibers. The bulk of your muscles are basically reserved for heavy lifting. That's why you won't increase your strength much with isometrics or low-resistance exercise, and it's why your body doesn't use as much energy during lower intensity workouts.
 
2012-09-23 01:19:49 PM

cptjeff: Fair enough, but in a discussion about fat people and weight loss, how many calories exercise really burns is a pretty important part of it. And if you read the Tanzina study, metabolism wasn't affected that much either, which is another justification for the role of exercise.

Face it- it's just not as useful as we've traditionally thought. Exercise is still an excellent way to get stronger and get some of the crap out of your system, but it's not gonna play as big a role in losing weight as you'd expect it to.


I read that in his voice:

"I live in the American Gardens Building on W. 81st Street on the 11th floor. My name is Patrick Bateman. I'm 27 years old. I believe in taking care of myself and a balanced diet and rigorous exercise routine. In the morning if my face is a little puffy I'll put on an ice pack while doing stomach crunches. I can do 1000 now.

After I remove the ice pack I use a deep pore cleanser lotion. In the shower I use a water activated gel cleanser, then a honey almond body scrub, and on the face an exfoliating gel scrub. Then I apply an herb-mint facial mask which I leave on for 10 minutes while I prepare the rest of my routine. I always use an after shave lotion with little or no alcohol, because alcohol dries your face out and makes you look older. Then moisturizer, then an anti-aging eye balm followed by a final moisturizing protective lotion."
 
2012-09-23 01:21:32 PM
Of course TFA article lists sausage and eggs as unhealthy, fattening foods, and muffins and cereal as healthy, weight-loss foods. Just one of many reasons why people will continue to get fatter.
 
2012-09-23 01:23:06 PM

elysive: Also imagine if you could burn 2000 cal in one hour long workout...


Well, that's just the thing. There's no such thing as a workout that will burn 2000 calories in an hour. For a 205 lb person, high-energy aerobics will burn 700 cal/hr. How many obese people have the time/inclination/stamina to do an hour of high-energy aerobics? And yet they can cut out two 20-oz sodas from their diet each day and have nearly the same effect on their energy balance. Doing that plus light exercise is a much easier thing for anyone, not just obese people, to accomplish on a daily basis.

You sound like an exercise junkie, which is awesome for you, but not everyone likes spending an hour jogging or lifting weights or doing step aerobics. It's absolutely boring and unnecessary. I do calisthenics and ride my bike to work. I'm decently fit and have a 56 resting heart rate. I also make sure I keep my caloric intake within bounds. When I lost 30 lbs over three months, it was the calorie restriction that did it. Exercise is a great thing, but it's not the panacea.
 
2012-09-23 01:26:32 PM

cptjeff: Gwyrddu: Well that would be that if burning calories were the only health effect of exercise, but it is not.

Incidentally, when hunter-gatherers first settled down in one place, life expectancy dropped precipitously, and that was probably due to both a decrease in diet variety and exercise.

Fair enough, but in a discussion about fat people and weight loss, how many calories exercise really burns is a pretty important part of it. And if you read the Tanzina study, metabolism wasn't affected that much either, which is another justification for the role of exercise.

Face it- it's just not as useful as we've traditionally thought. Exercise is still an excellent way to get stronger and get some of the crap out of your system, but it's not gonna play as big a role in losing weight as you'd expect it to.

As for hunter gatherers settling, disease was another big factor, since agriculture allowed much greater concentrations of people. More concentrated waste led to less sanitary conditions, and people being packed more closely allowed bacteria to transfer to more people, more quickly.


Actually, fat people are at high risk of heart problems and diabetes and high blood pressure and many cancers. Exercise can reduce many of these risks, even while the person is still fat. It is unethical, even malicious, to tell a fat person not to exercise. Also, obesity is properly defined by percent body fat, which means that every pound of muscle gained is an improvement of health.

The truth of the matter is that a 400 lb person will burn a ton of cal walking a mile. If that person cuts their cal consumption as well then weight loss will be greatly accelerated until the person gets much thinner. For a person weighing less than 200 lb or in a plateau, exercise isnt also an easy answer for weight loss, but the health benefits outweigh the discouraging words.
 
2012-09-23 01:26:49 PM

Gwyrddu: cptjeff: Actually, some recent studies (too lazy to pull up a link, but they're real) have suggested pretty strongly that exercise isn't particularly closely connected to weight gain or loss- most of the calories you use are used for cellular maintenance and replacement and whatnot, and the percentage burned for energy is actually pretty low, and pretty consistent across various activity levels (they worked with a tribe of hunter-gatherers in Africa to get this- this isn't a study of desk jockeys versus slightly more active college students). Basically, you can shock your system for temporary gain by dramatically changing your exercise level, but you're not going to be able to sustain those losses long term, unless you're on the far end of the bell curve (we're talking Micheal Phelps here, and if he stops those insane workouts, he's gonna balloon very quickly).


But you are assuming that weight loss is the ultimate goal, when the ultimate goal should be to become healthy as possible. In that regard, exercise is more important than just the effect of weight control. People can be a normal weight and unhealthy if they don't exercise, or they can be overweight and still in good health if they exercise regularly.

A couple of things is that I don't think are addressed is first off that muscle burns energy even at rest (and weighs more than fat incidentally), so that needs to be added to the equation for the effects of exercise. Secondly, no mention is made of the effects of exercise of appetite control.

Altogether, if your goal is to really become healthier, diet and exercise should be used in conjunction, instead of it being one or the other.


Ah, the old muscle weighs more than fat myth. It doesn't- a pound of fat= a pound of muscle. A pound is a pound. The only difference is muscle is denser than fat, and yes, it can help to keep your metabolism active.
 
2012-09-23 01:27:30 PM

SeriousGeorge: Of course TFA article lists sausage and eggs as unhealthy, fattening foods, and muffins and cereal as healthy, weight-loss foods. Just one of many reasons why people will continue to get fatter.


Starbucks' Blueberry Muffin:
380 calories
19 g of fat, 3.5g saturated
380mg sodium
49g of carbs
5g protein

vs.
2 sausage links and 2 eggs.
268 calories
21.4g fat, 6.4g saturated
294mg sodium
0.8g carbs
17.6g protein

Fark muffins.
 
2012-09-23 01:27:59 PM

Earpj: he's riding his bike to school everyday


More should do that. It would solve a lot.

/Yes, kids on bikes pay no road tax unlike parents who chauffeur their child to school. They are also healthier than those kids.
 
2012-09-23 01:28:34 PM

elysive: cptjeff: I have nothing against a healthy diet and any personal trainer worth their salt will tell you weight loss is 80% diet, but anyone discouraging or talking shiat about exercise needs to be biatch slapped. Most Americans at this moment are on some kind of a diet (they always are) and most Americans are still sadly overweight. Americans, particularly American children, could use a lot more exercise.

I'm a pt familiar with all the research pros and cons. I've lost weight a bunch of times in my life and only kept it off with exercise. I dont feel like a big debate...just dont be one of those idiots who tells obese, super unhealthy people not to bother with exercise cause its useless (even if you think it wont speed up their weight loss..though you are wrong).

Exercise is useful, but it's not particularly critical, and not too long ago, I would have parroted the same line. But the study I saw (here's a link ...

Sorry, but that poor summary of a study proves nothing and exercising once a week/eating an ok diet does not make you fit. You have a leg up health-wise on the people who never exercise at all, but you're seriously trying to brag to someone in the health industry that food is making you fit? lol

You might be able to retain some muscle mass and strength conditioning with a once weekly regimen but your heart cries for more exercise!

For the record, people in hunter gatherer societies rely on low intensity physical activities and energy conservation to survive. You arent going to see those people intentionally expending energy or losing fat the way we attempt to do daily at the gym. I dont see any good reason to use hunter gatherers in a metabolic study of this type since they rarely "exercise".


I may be overly stereotyping, but in general I would guess that a fat office worker has the same amount of muscle as a lean hunter-gatherer.

As stated above, resting metabolic rate is tied to cellular activity. Even though an office worker may weigh 2-3x more than a hunter gather, most of it is fat. They will still have the same base metabolic rate if their muscle mass is the same. As a test of this hypothesis, I would like to see the base metabolic rate for Olympic power lifters and bodybuilders.
 
2012-09-23 01:29:22 PM

Jadedgrl: Ah, the old muscle weighs more than fat myth. It doesn't- a pound of fat= a pound of muscle. A pound is a pound.


Psst... the "myth" is that muscle weighs more than fat "for the same volume", not "for the same weight". And as you note, it's not a myth at all.
 
2012-09-23 01:29:52 PM

elysive: For the record, people in hunter gatherer societies rely on low intensity physical activities and energy conservation to survive. You arent going to see those people intentionally expending energy or losing fat the way we attempt to do daily at the gym. I dont see any good reason to use hunter gatherers in a metabolic study of this type since they rarely "exercise".


That's could well be a valid criticism of the study, though I'm not versed enough in their data and methodology to say if they've taken that into account.

As for your claim of being in the health industry, that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. That's a pretty broad spectrum of educational levels and fields, and there are a lot of problems with how we train the people in that industry. My mother, a consultant with an MBA, has more nutritional training than my father, a practicing doctor. Why? Well, they don't teach nutrition in med school. She took one course as an elective in undergrad. As the importance of nutrition in a huge range of health issues has become clear, a lot of doctors have been admitting that they really don't have anywhere near appropriate training in that area. When a doctor gives you nutritional advice, he or she is generally just repeating common wisdom- which may very well be wrong. Unless you're a nutritionist, the fact that you work in the health industry really doesn't mean much at all.
 
2012-09-23 01:32:25 PM

Jadedgrl: Ah, the old muscle weighs more than fat myth. It doesn't- a pound of fat= a pound of muscle. A pound is a pound. The only difference is muscle is denser than fat, and yes, it can help to keep your metabolism active.


I don't know what other context you thought I was using other than to say that muscle is denser than fat. Of course one measured weight of an arbitrary type of matter weighs the same as the same measured weight of another arbitrary type of matter.
 
2012-09-23 01:32:32 PM
I just had this conversation with a friend about her son who is packing on some extra weight. She doesn't know why. The kid has all the various video game systems and they are looking into getting him an iPad for Christmas - but he is 8 years old and has never ridden a bike. Get the kid a bike, for crying out loud!
 
2012-09-23 01:33:54 PM

AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.


This times eleventy.
 
2012-09-23 01:34:17 PM

gerbilpox: This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on. Hancock hopes eating meals at school will help Derek get his weight under control.

I'm 6-7 pounds over what I should be, but I would be a lot more (and have been) if I snacked whenever I felt like it. Avoiding it when you're hungry is easier said then done. So you know what I do? I don't keep my freakin' fridge stocked! Not with anything I can snack on, anyway; just things that require some work to prepare.

I also was lighter and fit when I just got an hour of exercise a week. (That is, getting off my arse instead of fapping and being on Fark.)

Blaming the parents here is not just speculation or ideology: they caused this, and they could fix it.

Let's call this what it is: child abuse.


The only things I keep in my house that are easy snacking are fruits, veggies, and yogurt. It drives my husband nuts that there's no "snacky" foods (he hates veggies, and IDGAF), but I'm not going to turn into a fatty and that's all I care about.
 
2012-09-23 01:34:19 PM

elysive: Actually, fat people are at high risk of heart problems and diabetes and high blood pressure and many cancers. Exercise can reduce many of these risks, even while the person is still fat.


Fair point.

elysive: It is unethical, even malicious, to tell a fat person not to exercise.


Good thing that's not what I'm doing then. I'm not saying exercise yields no health benefits. I'm saying it's not all that important as a mechanism for losing weight.
 
2012-09-23 01:34:46 PM

elysive: It is unethical, even malicious, to tell a fat person not to exercise.


No one's saying that. However, if you want to reduce a fat person's weight, calorie restriction is the most effective way to do that.
 
2012-09-23 01:37:51 PM

BitwiseShift: Doesn't care much for schools.

[i894.photobucket.com image 200x300]


Doesn't care much for students just going "ya, I can't climb the stairs or run (on the field). I'm pretty much fat, and you're going to have to support me". I listened to the article and I am appalled. I know how strong I feel at my age, and his as well. He's just being fed shiat and told to say "I can't succeed".
 
2012-09-23 01:38:24 PM
Genetically tweak kids to get diabetes early. Type 1 diabetes, none of this Type 2 shiat.

See, I grew up with Type 1 hereditary diabetes. This means, practically from day one, I was eating relatively healthy. Didn't have a choice. That's why I'm not fat.
 
2012-09-23 01:38:35 PM
Serious question for Parents: Do kids get told to go play outside anymore?
 
2012-09-23 01:41:07 PM

theorellior: elysive: Also imagine if you could burn 2000 cal in one hour long workout...

Well, that's just the thing. There's no such thing as a workout that will burn 2000 calories in an hour. For a 205 lb person, high-energy aerobics will burn 700 cal/hr. How many obese people have the time/inclination/stamina to do an hour of high-energy aerobics? And yet they can cut out two 20-oz sodas from their diet each day and have nearly the same effect on their energy balance. Doing that plus light exercise is a much easier thing for anyone, not just obese people, to accomplish on a daily basis.

You sound like an exercise junkie, which is awesome for you, but not everyone likes spending an hour jogging or lifting weights or doing step aerobics. It's absolutely boring and unnecessary. I do calisthenics and ride my bike to work. I'm decently fit and have a 56 resting heart rate. I also make sure I keep my caloric intake within bounds. When I lost 30 lbs over three months, it was the calorie restriction that did it. Exercise is a great thing, but it's not the panacea.


I was exaggerating with the calorie count to make a point. Like imagine you could burn your daily food intake allocation for the day...even if the workout used sugar instead of fat for its primary fuel, the deficit will result in the body targeting fat stores later in the day. As for a 200 lb person only being able to burn 700 cal in an hour? I'm 150 lb and I regularly burn over 600 cal in an hour. My boyfriend weighs 175 lbs and will burn 1200 cal in an hour run. I admit he runs fast but it is possible to burn large amounts of calories during workouts. It is humanly possible, just not pleasant or in most cases probable.

I wasnt trying to suggest long high intensity workouts...on the contrary, I recommend shorter high intensity workouts. If you usually work out at low intensity for 1-2 hr, up the intensity and reduce the duration of your workout for crying out loud. Do nt shoot for 800 cal in an hr, shoot for 400 cal in 30-40 min then toss in some weights! Maybe do a longer lower intnsity cardio day a few times a week. The limiting factor is disease like heart disease can limit people from high intensity cardio (only healthy ppl and those cleared by a dr should do high intensity cardio) and jumping around or running can cause more injuries than walking, but most people dont have the time or patience to see results at ridiculously low intensity exercise such as the "fat burning zone" and those who do it for 30 min at a time will be very disappointed. Ultimately higher intensity cardio will make peoples hearts stronger.

Good for you if what you're doing works for you, but if you were the OP, your rule of thumb was wrong.
 
2012-09-23 01:43:17 PM

optional: Genetically tweak kids to get diabetes early. Type 1 diabetes, none of this Type 2 shiat.

See, I grew up with Type 1 hereditary diabetes. This means, practically from day one, I was eating relatively healthy. Didn't have a choice. That's why I'm not fat.


The only difference that will make is the kids who would grow up to be fat will die early from type 1 diabetes, while everyone who would have been skinny anyway will suffer an insulin dependency they wouldn't normally have. There are easier ways to kill off fat kids than giving everyone a genetic disease.
 
2012-09-23 01:44:26 PM
ChubbyTiger:

Losing weight is hard. Hormone levels can take years to return to normal. That said, it's real damn easy to not get that fat. A BMI of 40+?

I've been 20-30 pounds overweight since I quit smoking 12 years ago. Not so much because of "substituting one addiction for another" but because not spending $5-10 a day on cigarettes means I can afford more & better food & drink. In the old days I couldn't afford to fill up on food I like and get drunk every night.

That said, as previously noted my BMI has never been over 30 despite having developed almost no self-discipline in almost 50 years: if it weren't for having two dogs to walk I'll be an air-breathing barnacle. Other than using some (very little pseudo-) common sense, such as pigging out on bourbon and meat instead of soda and pizza, I don't bother to heed dietary experts' advice. So how in the fark does anybody who's able to walk get a BMI of over 40? It sounds too much like work to me.

Personal advice: if your whiskey tastes so bad you have to mix it with cola then buy better whiskey instead of bad whiskey AND COLA. Try a few brands and find one you actually like instead of settling in whatever's hip in your neighborhood. Sometimes good bourbon is cheaper than the swill your Dad drinks.
 
2012-09-23 01:45:35 PM

megalynn44: Serious question for Parents: Do kids get told to go play outside anymore?


Not so much. My neighbor had the cops called a few times cause the kids were playing in her front yard.
Stupid stuff like that makes parents scared.
 
2012-09-23 01:47:37 PM

elysive: As for a 200 lb person only being able to burn 700 cal in an hour? I'm 150 lb and I regularly burn over 600 cal in an hour. My boyfriend weighs 175 lbs and will burn 1200 cal in an hour run. I admit he runs fast but it is possible to burn large amounts of calories during workouts. It is humanly possible, just not pleasant or in most cases probable.


The 700 cal/hr I just pulled from a quick web search. YMMV. Basically burning calories through exercise is a lot harder than it looks. I'm impressed you can burn that many calories in an hour, not many people have that capability.

The basic benefit of exercise for losing weight is to elevate your base metabolic rate so your calorie restriction is more effective. The heart benefits? Sure. Exercise is good for your heart. But getting an obese person down to a manageable weight will do more for their heart health, and is easier to get them to do, than intensive exercise.
 
2012-09-23 01:49:34 PM
Presidential Physical Fitness Test

Does this bit of torture still exist?
 
2012-09-23 01:50:00 PM

Earpj: megalynn44: Serious question for Parents: Do kids get told to go play outside anymore?

Not so much. My neighbor had the cops called a few times cause the kids were playing in her front yard.
Stupid stuff like that makes parents scared.


What? I'd demand to know who's calling them and file a restraining order against them for stalking my children.
 
2012-09-23 01:50:40 PM
Theaetetus:

2 sausage links and 2 eggs

Who eats only 2 of each? Farking lightweights.
 
2012-09-23 01:51:40 PM

cptjeff: elysive: For the record, people in hunter gatherer societies rely on low intensity physical activities and energy conservation to survive. You arent going to see those people intentionally expending energy or losing fat the way we attempt to do daily at the gym. I dont see any good reason to use hunter gatherers in a metabolic study of this type since they rarely "exercise".

That's could well be a valid criticism of the study, though I'm not versed enough in their data and methodology to say if they've taken that into account.

As for your claim of being in the health industry, that doesn't mean a whole lot to me. That's a pretty broad spectrum of educational levels and fields, and there are a lot of problems with how we train the people in that industry. My mother, a consultant with an MBA, has more nutritional training than my father, a practicing doctor. Why? Well, they don't teach nutrition in med school. She took one course as an elective in undergrad. As the importance of nutrition in a huge range of health issues has become clear, a lot of doctors have been admitting that they really don't have anywhere near appropriate training in that area. When a doctor gives you nutritional advice, he or she is generally just repeating common wisdom- which may very well be wrong. Unless you're a nutritionist, the fact that you work in the health industry really doesn't mean much at all.


I believe I've mentioned being a personal trainer several times. If you are not exercising, your nutrition has little bearing on your fitness. I would imagine most people could figure that one out...but cardiovascular fitness starts to diminish after 24-48 hr without training or practice, and people begin to lose strength gains after roughly 72 hr but the ACSM believes you can maintain basic strength and conditioning with a single strength workout per week. *shrug*

This was never a discussion about nutrition, but I agree that most doctors know nothing about it. In a thread last week, someone tried to argue that fruit makes you fat because their doctor said so. I believe a diet with sufficient protein will help prevent muscle loss but your single bout of weekly exetcise will do that too.
 
2012-09-23 01:52:19 PM

Gwyrddu: optional: Genetically tweak kids to get diabetes early. Type 1 diabetes, none of this Type 2 shiat.

See, I grew up with Type 1 hereditary diabetes. This means, practically from day one, I was eating relatively healthy. Didn't have a choice. That's why I'm not fat.

The only difference that will make is the kids who would grow up to be fat will die early from type 1 diabetes, while everyone who would have been skinny anyway will suffer an insulin dependency they wouldn't normally have. There are easier ways to kill off fat kids than giving everyone a genetic disease.


It's goddam bleeding hearts like you who are killing America.
 
2012-09-23 01:56:05 PM
True but horrible story:

Was behind a 300lb+ woman in grocery store line and overheard her telling clerk she obviously knew that she lost 200 lbs (so she must have been 500 lbs. before) and baby daddy left her because she got too skinny! She said "I don't need no man's help" as she paid with food stamps. Pissed me off so bad I left store.
 
2012-09-23 01:56:28 PM

cptjeff: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

If you're fat, you need to fix your diet. Fattie in school's mother is either feeding him crap, or letting him feed himself crap. Cut the sugared up drinks down to a rare treat or never and watch the magic ...


I have read the same studies that you have! Exercise is *not* what has changed. People are complaining that kids aren't walking to school or playing outside anymore. A 70 lb kid would burn 80 calories per half hour of vigorous walking. 80 x 6 = 400 calories. That would be best case scenario because usually when kids play outside it isn't constant motion.

400 calories would be 1 mcdonalds hamburger and kid fry, or 5 Oreos, or 3 sodas or juices, or 4 gogurts, or 2 pop tarts.

Now that I think about it- isn't it a little strange that schools serve the same lunch to a 16 year old boy and a 5 year old girl? So federal guidelines say that is enough calories for a 140 lb boy and a 30 lb girl??
 
2012-09-23 02:05:01 PM

megalynn44: Serious question for Parents: Do kids get told to go play outside anymore?


Except for obligatory soccer practice, I'd have to say no, at least in a lot of places. Certainly not like I did when I was a kid.

It's not just the lack of outdoor play that's causing this. Kids in many schools no longer have PE. Lots of elementary schools no longer have morning and afternoon recess, and where they do, the playground equipment has been so bastardized as to no longer present a physical challenge. Games like tag and dodgeball have been banned by law in many districts, and I saw one report where jumprope has been banned because some kids can't master it right away and there are fears such failure will damage their self-esteem.

But besides that, nutrition has gone out the window at school and at home. While districts argue about whether pizza is a vegetable and if there should be healthy options in vending machines, kids eat crap. Kids have always eaten crap at school anyway, but now they go home and mom tosses in some frozen dinners or orders out or dad brings home take-out. Then kids sit down for an evening of homework (up to five hours, depending on the district), TV and video games. Weekends, if there isn't soccer practice (where kids eat chips and hot dogs), there's homework and video games and TV instead.

So it's both. Kids get no exercise at school, plus, they're not encouraged to play the kinds of games that in my day carried over into afterschool play. If you don't play four-square at school, you have no motivation to play it at home, you know? Plus, kids never learn good eating habits at school or at home, and in fact are encouraged to eat whatever they want whenever they want it. Throw in parental fears of lurking child molesters driving up and down the street...viola! Lots of fat,sluggish kids.
 
2012-09-23 02:05:48 PM

99.998er: True but horrible story:

Was behind a 300lb+ woman in grocery store line and overheard her telling clerk she obviously knew that she lost 200 lbs (so she must have been 500 lbs. before) and baby daddy left her because she got too skinny! She said "I don't need no man's help" as she paid with food stamps. Pissed me off so bad I left store.


So you're angry that she's bettering herself and got rid of some asshole who was enabling her fatness?

Are you a feeder or something? ಠ_ಠ
 
2012-09-23 02:06:46 PM

cptjeff: elysive: Actually, fat people are at high risk of heart problems and diabetes and high blood pressure and many cancers. Exercise can reduce many of these risks, even while the person is still fat.

Fair point.

elysive: It is unethical, even malicious, to tell a fat person not to exercise.

Good thing that's not what I'm doing then. I'm not saying exercise yields no health benefits. I'm saying it's not all that important as a mechanism for losing weight.


I guess I've had this argument with too many people now. Im glad youre the expert in weight loss here with your urine study to back it up. I'll just fall back on my measly experience losing weight multiple times and exercise being the deciding factor in keeping it off. I wont say that diet didnt do most of the work at taking the weight off...just that exercise is what keeps it off...but you're the expert and probably could refute all of the ACSM and fitness industry's studies about exercise supporting weight loss and improving body composition.

God knows, its better to lose all the muscle in your body and be skinny on the scale thanks to diet than to be a bit heavier and fit.

theorellior: elysive: As for a 200 lb person only being able to burn 700 cal in an hour? I'm 150 lb and I regularly burn over 600 cal in an hour. My boyfriend weighs 175 lbs and will burn 1200 cal in an hour run. I admit he runs fast but it is possible to burn large amounts of calories during workouts. It is humanly possible, just not pleasant or in most cases probable.

The 700 cal/hr I just pulled from a quick web search. YMMV. Basically burning calories through exercise is a lot harder than it looks. I'm impressed you can burn that many calories in an hour, not many people have that capability.

The basic benefit of exercise for losing weight is to elevate your base metabolic rate so your calorie restriction is more effective. The heart benefits? Sure. Exercise is good for your heart. But getting an obese person down to a manageable weight will do more for their heart health, and is easier to get them to do, than intensive exercise.


Intense exercise isnt always fun and I dont always do it because I like it. Honestly? Now I usually do it because I'm a trainer and I have an image and I want to lose a few more pounds to lose...I would have to cut my diet dangerously low to do it with food alone. I prefer weight loss through fun exercise not the gym...a 7-10 mile hike or a 5 hr hike is a lot of fun and great for weight loss...originally lost a lot of weight through martial arts. I think exercise is great to increase your metabolism, cause healthy cravings and instill heathy lifestyle habits. For me it really did keep the weight off after a lifetime of struggling with my weight. Eight pounds gone...six years and counting.
 
2012-09-23 02:07:20 PM

Urinal Cake Mix: gerbilpox: This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on. Hancock hopes eating meals at school will help Derek get his weight under control.

I'm 6-7 pounds over what I should be, but I would be a lot more (and have been) if I snacked whenever I felt like it. Avoiding it when you're hungry is easier said then done. So you know what I do? I don't keep my freakin' fridge stocked! Not with anything I can snack on, anyway; just things that require some work to prepare.

I also was lighter and fit when I just got an hour of exercise a week. (That is, getting off my arse instead of fapping and being on Fark.)

Blaming the parents here is not just speculation or ideology: they caused this, and they could fix it.

Let's call this what it is: child abuse.

The only things I keep in my house that are easy snacking are fruits, veggies, and yogurt. It drives my husband nuts that there's no "snacky" foods (he hates veggies, and IDGAF), but I'm not going to turn into a fatty and that's all I care about.


I do the same thing. Plus I don't buy any baked goods or anything in boxes (except dry pasta). If I want cookies or bread or something I am going to have to bake it myself. Plus what you make is healthier than the version you would buy.

/plus now I am really good at baking
//seriously though after you compare how quickly bread you bake gets moldy with the months it takes for a loaf from the store to mold you just quit wanting the store bread.
 
2012-09-23 02:08:31 PM
Eighty pounds gone. Thanks ipad keyboard!
 
2012-09-23 02:09:57 PM

Gyrfalcon: megalynn44: Serious question for Parents: Do kids get told to go play outside anymore?

Except for obligatory soccer practice, I'd have to say no, at least in a lot of places. Certainly not like I did when I was a kid.

It's not just the lack of outdoor play that's causing this. Kids in many schools no longer have PE. Lots of elementary schools no longer have morning and afternoon recess, and where they do, the playground equipment has been so bastardized as to no longer present a physical challenge. Games like tag and dodgeball have been banned by law in many districts, and I saw one report where jumprope has been banned because some kids can't master it right away and there are fears such failure will damage their self-esteem.

But besides that, nutrition has gone out the window at school and at home. While districts argue about whether pizza is a vegetable and if there should be healthy options in vending machines, kids eat crap. Kids have always eaten crap at school anyway, but now they go home and mom tosses in some frozen dinners or orders out or dad brings home take-out. Then kids sit down for an evening of homework (up to five hours, depending on the district), TV and video games. Weekends, if there isn't soccer practice (where kids eat chips and hot dogs), there's homework and video games and TV instead.

So it's both. Kids get no exercise at school, plus, they're not encouraged to play the kinds of games that in my day carried over into afterschool play. If you don't play four-square at school, you have no motivation to play it at home, you know? Plus, kids never learn good eating habits at school or at home, and in fact are encouraged to eat whatever they want whenever they want it. Throw in parental fears of lurking child molesters driving up and down the street...viola! Lots of fat,sluggish kids.


My son's 5th grade class has to earn recess. My son is angry, b/c it's a class effort and his class is bad. He's afraid that he'll never have recess again.
 
2012-09-23 02:10:58 PM
I can forsee a shortage of sticks
 
2012-09-23 02:13:37 PM

Urinal Cake Mix: gerbilpox: This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on. Hancock hopes eating meals at school will help Derek get his weight under control.

I'm 6-7 pounds over what I should be, but I would be a lot more (and have been) if I snacked whenever I felt like it. Avoiding it when you're hungry is easier said then done. So you know what I do? I don't keep my freakin' fridge stocked! Not with anything I can snack on, anyway; just things that require some work to prepare.

I also was lighter and fit when I just got an hour of exercise a week. (That is, getting off my arse instead of fapping and being on Fark.)

Blaming the parents here is not just speculation or ideology: they caused this, and they could fix it.

Let's call this what it is: child abuse.

The only things I keep in my house that are easy snacking are fruits, veggies, and yogurt. It drives my husband nuts that there's no "snacky" foods (he hates veggies, and IDGAF), but I'm not going to turn into a fatty and that's all I care about.


What saves me is low calorie ranch dressing. I can eat 2-3 cups of raw vegetables for a snack as long as I have me some low-cal ranch dressing to dip 'em in.
 
2012-09-23 02:16:16 PM
They'd like to observe a BMI under 30?

Jeesus, I am a fat bastard and I know it and that is where my BMI is at. And my Wii is calling me obese at that BMI and it will continue to do so for quite some BMI levels under that.

Or is it because I have a socialist elitist Wii and where the border to obesedom is is measured differently than in the US?
 
2012-09-23 02:16:31 PM

fluffy2097: 99.998er: True but horrible story:

Was behind a 300lb+ woman in grocery store line and overheard her telling clerk she obviously knew that she lost 200 lbs (so she must have been 500 lbs. before) and baby daddy left her because she got too skinny! She said "I don't need no man's help" as she paid with food stamps. Pissed me off so bad I left store.

So you're angry that she's bettering herself and got rid of some asshole who was enabling her fatness?

Are you a feeder or something? ಠ_ಠ


No...angry that she is a fat POS eating on my dime. Remember? "She don't need no man to take care of her", yet she needs for somebody to fill her basket if she is using food stamps to buy all those worthless items in her cart. Angry at her sense of entitlement. Also, she did not get rid of him, he got rid of her. I would bet my 401k he is just as bad as she. One more thing....I am a die-hard liberal, so no sense in bashing me. Common sense goes a long way.
 
2012-09-23 02:17:33 PM

theorellior: elysive: As for a 200 lb person only being able to burn 700 cal in an hour? I'm 150 lb and I regularly burn over 600 cal in an hour. My boyfriend weighs 175 lbs and will burn 1200 cal in an hour run. I admit he runs fast but it is possible to burn large amounts of calories during workouts. It is humanly possible, just not pleasant or in most cases probable.

The 700 cal/hr I just pulled from a quick web search. YMMV. Basically burning calories through exercise is a lot harder than it looks. I'm impressed you can burn that many calories in an hour, not many people have that capability.

The basic benefit of exercise for losing weight is to elevate your base metabolic rate so your calorie restriction is more effective. The heart benefits? Sure. Exercise is good for your heart. But getting an obese person down to a manageable weight will do more for their heart health, and is easier to get them to do, than intensive exercise.


I can burn 800 calories an hour by hiking at a moderate intensity (not running, but not meandering either). Of course, I'm currently a fat pig so there's a lot of heft to my hikes.
 
2012-09-23 02:20:08 PM

99.998er: fluffy2097: 99.998er: True but horrible story:

Was behind a 300lb+ woman in grocery store line and overheard her telling clerk she obviously knew that she lost 200 lbs (so she must have been 500 lbs. before) and baby daddy left her because she got too skinny! She said "I don't need no man's help" as she paid with food stamps. Pissed me off so bad I left store.

So you're angry that she's bettering herself and got rid of some asshole who was enabling her fatness?

Are you a feeder or something? ಠ_ಠ

No...angry that she is a fat POS eating on my dime. Remember? "She don't need no man to take care of her", yet she needs for somebody to fill her basket if she is using food stamps to buy all those worthless items in her cart. Angry at her sense of entitlement. Also, she did not get rid of him, he got rid of her. I would bet my 401k he is just as bad as she. One more thing....I am a die-hard liberal, so no sense in bashing me. Common sense goes a long way.


The hell you are. You're a troll.
 
2012-09-23 02:26:10 PM
keep allowing anyone & everyone to reproduce and we will keep having a steady supply of all the undesirables society has to offer.

overweight children pales in comparison to those children destined to a short life of horrific crimes, murder, thug gang life, hardcore drug abuse, drinking themselves to death, rape, prostitution to feed a drug habit - you name it.

politicians, the government and wealthy people don't give a damn about the world we have to live in. they live in their own circles. wake up folks.
 
2012-09-23 02:26:12 PM

99.998er: One more thing....I am a die-hard liberal, so no sense in bashing me. Common sense goes a long way.


I believe that moochers should be exterminated on sight, that all people with a Mexican-sounding last names should be deported immediately, that jaywalking should be punished with the death penalty and that gays should be liquidated for their nutrients but there's no point in bashing me, because I am a die-hard liberal.
 
2012-09-23 02:29:28 PM

KrispyKritter: keep allowing anyone & everyone to reproduce and we will keep having a steady supply of all the undesirables society has to offer.

overweight children pales in comparison to those children destined to a short life of horrific crimes, murder, thug gang life, hardcore drug abuse, drinking themselves to death, rape, prostitution to feed a drug habit - you name it.

politicians, the government and wealthy people don't give a damn about the world we have to live in. they live in their own circles. wake up folks.


Yeah, it's the wealthy people that shouldn't be having kids... /eye-roll

I dare you to suggest to an underprivileged woman that she doesn't have a right to reproduce as often as she wants to.
I triple dog dare you...
 
2012-09-23 02:37:39 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: 99.998er: One more thing....I am a die-hard liberal, so no sense in bashing me. Common sense goes a long way.

I believe that moochers should be exterminated on sight, that all people with a Mexican-sounding last names should be deported immediately, that jaywalking should be punished with the death penalty and that gays should be liquidated for their nutrients but there's no point in bashing me, because I am a die-hard liberal.


Are gay people rich in nutrients? I thought that was the old and infirm...
 
2012-09-23 02:44:18 PM

Maxor: How are these people doing it?

You have to eat thousands of dollars of food per month to put on that kind of weight. I'm 6'3" eat 4500 calories per day and my weight has stabilized at around 200 lbs, (in stead of dropping like a rock when I cut back a little on food.). If I'm not careful to eat enough I find that after 4 or 5 days I burn through my body fat reserves and start loosing weight to about 165 at which point either my calorie intake has to go back up or I get lethargic and light headed as well as looking like skin and bones.


Yes because everyone is just like you. I'm also 6'3", I eat around a 2200 calories a day diet. I am now 260lbs, coming down from 300lbs. I was on about 4500 calorie a day at 300lbs.

And it's not that expensive either, 2 hungry man's, a pack of oreos and a six pack of coke comes in at 3750 calories and about $10. Add a $5 McGridle meal at 860 calories, and a theirs 4610 calories at $15 a day. That's only $450 a month. Add in another $150 each day for lunch and you can knock it up another 1000 calories with a Big mac and two McChickens, or 1200 cals for a foot long Subway Meatball Pepperoni melt. Bad food is cheap and widely available.
 
2012-09-23 02:44:21 PM
Article actually states that these kids are "margarine-alyzed".

/gateway drug leading straight to butter, with a little trip of "I Can't Belive It's Not Butter" along the way.
 
2012-09-23 02:45:20 PM

Earpj: megalynn44: Serious question for Parents: Do kids get told to go play outside anymore?

Not so much. My neighbor had the cops called a few times cause the kids were playing in her front yard.
Stupid stuff like that makes parents scared.


That's just sad. I remember being out to play for hours on end when i was a kid, then when i got older, i watched tv and ate alot more and got chunky...
 
2012-09-23 02:47:28 PM

The_Gallant_Gallstone: 99.998er: One more thing....I am a die-hard liberal, so no sense in bashing me. Common sense goes a long way.

I believe that moochers should be exterminated on sight, that all people with a Mexican-sounding last names should be deported immediately, that jaywalking should be punished with the death penalty and that gays should be liquidated for their nutrients but there's no point in bashing me, because I am a die-hard liberal.


Hmmm? I thought this thread was about weight. I make a statement about an obese woman with nothing but cookies, potato chips, shiat food in her basket paying for food with government assistance stating she doesn't need help from anyone, and somehow I become the troll monster with no compassion. I get it! It is not hipsterish, even though I pay a much higher tax percentage than Mitt, have no kids, yet pay education tax, live & work in the city so I do not own a car but pay taxes for roads, never in my life called fire or police departments, but still pay taxes with no qualm. But the minute you say something about a self-indulgent lazy fatass you get crucified. I must get out more and start attending poetry readings or something
 
2012-09-23 02:49:21 PM
You know what I loved to do as a kid? Climb trees.

Good luck climbing trees in your urban hellholes.
 
2012-09-23 02:54:48 PM

JRoo: You know what I loved to do as a kid? Climb trees.

Good luck climbing trees in your urban hellholes.


Actually, that really depends on the neighborhoods. Urban neighborhoods with some money are full of trees and parks. Really I think the suburban neighborhoods are the real hellholes, there is nothing to do without having to drive everywhere, and that's why people in suburbia are fatter because they don't get the chance to walk to where they want to go.
 
2012-09-23 02:55:09 PM

dopekitty74: Earpj: megalynn44: Serious question for Parents: Do kids get told to go play outside anymore?

Not so much. My neighbor had the cops called a few times cause the kids were playing in her front yard.
Stupid stuff like that makes parents scared.

That's just sad. I remember being out to play for hours on end when i was a kid, then when i got older, i watched tv and ate alot more and got chunky...


Yup.
I'm from the generation of playing kickball in the street till the street lights came on. Roaming the streets. Walking to the mall.

I didn't get chunky till I had kids.
 
2012-09-23 03:01:39 PM

wildcardjack: D_Evans45: Obese people are like drug addicts. People with no self control on a self destructive path that society as a whole ends up footing in the end. The only difference is there is no criminal element involved, and even vagrants can be obese in America.

If a heroin addict quits doing heroin within a few weeks all he has are memories and track marks. A carb-addict cuts out the sugars and starches and they're still fat six weeks later. So, the comparison is false.


Yeah, I'm sure the hep c, hiv, abcess scars, rotted teeth, and run down body just goes away when they stop shooting up. So your comparison is really the false one.
 
2012-09-23 03:13:13 PM

moto-geek: Shaming the kid just makes it worse. Shaming the parents into helping their kids might work.


I generally agree, though I'd like to think there's a better motivator than shame. I'm not saying it's off the table, but we could at least try less cruel and manipulative approaches first.
 
2012-09-23 03:15:16 PM
FTFA:

All these challenges can also affect learning. Dr. Hancock says there is evidence that children who are obese score less well on standardized tests and basic classroom tests.

Fat and stupid is no way to go through life, son.
 
2012-09-23 03:17:46 PM
i47.tinypic.com
 
2012-09-23 03:19:21 PM
You know what else affects learning? Putting stupid kids in class with smart kids.
 
2012-09-23 03:21:10 PM
Marginalized? Sorry, they spilled over the margins long ago.
 
2012-09-23 03:26:34 PM
Shaming overweight people will not help them lose weight. But it might improve their likeliness of getting even.
 
2012-09-23 03:31:29 PM

rev. dave: Shaming overweight people will not help them lose weight. But it might improve their likeliness of getting even.


By sitting on you.
 
2012-09-23 03:47:09 PM
Obviously we want to make sure to let people know its acceptable to be obese. Just like it's acceptable to be fail your classes, or not brush your teeth, or washyour dishes. Cause hey, those are standards, who teh fark needs standards when everyone can feel good about themselves. Whats the worse that can happen if we dont have standards and we never forced people to reflect on thier shortcomings and make an effort to make themselves a better person?
 
2012-09-23 03:47:50 PM

tjsands1118: Maxor: How are these people doing it?

You have to eat thousands of dollars of food per month to put on that kind of weight. I'm 6'3" eat 4500 calories per day and my weight has stabilized at around 200 lbs, (in stead of dropping like a rock when I cut back a little on food.). If I'm not careful to eat enough I find that after 4 or 5 days I burn through my body fat reserves and start loosing weight to about 165 at which point either my calorie intake has to go back up or I get lethargic and light headed as well as looking like skin and bones.

Yes because everyone is just like you. I'm also 6'3", I eat around a 2200 calories a day diet. I am now 260lbs, coming down from 300lbs. I was on about 4500 calorie a day at 300lbs.

And it's not that expensive either, 2 hungry man's, a pack of oreos and a six pack of coke comes in at 3750 calories and about $10. Add a $5 McGridle meal at 860 calories, and a theirs 4610 calories at $15 a day. That's only $450 a month. Add in another $150 each day for lunch and you can knock it up another 1000 calories with a Big mac and two McChickens, or 1200 cals for a foot long Subway Meatball Pepperoni melt. Bad food is cheap and widely available.


i only need 1240 calories a day. therefore that's all u need
 
2012-09-23 04:03:21 PM
"New expectations"?

I think the first expectation is that a 4'-11" kid isn't going to weigh in at 256 pounds.
 
2012-09-23 04:18:56 PM
FTFA: ... Overweight Children Carry A Heavy Burden

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg

Just couldn't help it, could you Kavitha Cardoza?
 
2012-09-23 04:19:59 PM

ZoeNekros: FTFA: ... Overweight Children Carry A Heavy Burden

iseewhatyoudidthere.jpg

Just couldn't help it, could you Kavitha Cardoza?


Ahem. 
 
2012-09-23 04:40:28 PM
Fat people are disgusting. I can't imagine hating yourself so much that you find it acceptable to look like a sack of mayonnaise. Those parents should be arrested.
 
2012-09-23 04:41:54 PM

MuonNeutrino: TFA: This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on.

And this is why we have these sorts of problems. It's not 'politically correct' these days to point it out, but this isn't a 'issue' to be 'managed'. The important concern here shouldn't be helping the fat kids learn to 'deal' with being fat or worrying about their sensitive little feelings being hurt because people point out that they look like whales, it should be to help them stop being fat so that they can live normal lives. Unfortunately it's not fashionable to point out that these kids have serious problems because their parents are farking morons who shouldn't be allowed to raise goldfish, let alone a kid, so the problem continues.


No, the problem is that instead of saying 'okay, you're fat, here, let's get you to a doctor and see how we can help you', people say things like, I kid you not, 'fat people should all go die lol' or 'fat people should farking kill themselves' ad nauseum.

Your world does not exist. People do not say 'okay, let's help you', people tell fat people to kill themselves because they find them ugly. That is wrong.

/You want to help fat people? Shut your mouth. That is literally all it takes. You don't even have to interact with them. Just don't tell people to die or that you hate them.
//A world full of fat people? Society can adjust. A world full of hate? Yeah, go read your history books. That's a way bigger problem.
 
2012-09-23 04:48:37 PM
When I graduated high school (after running cross country, track, indoor track, road races, biathlons and one triathlon), I was 6' 1" and weighed 135. I quit being active and ate the same as I had when I was young and exercising. I gained an inch in height somewhere along the way and gradually gained weight.

I hit 200 lbs around the time I turned 25. I continued to gain weight until I maxed out at about 256 lbs. I fluctuated between 235-245 for several years (dropped to 225 one January when I got a bad flu and quite eating almost entirely for 2 weeks). I developed sleep apnea (confirmed through a sleep study).

2 and a half months ago, I weighed about 235 and my wife suggested I use the Android app she was using to track calories (not to go on a diet). I found out I was eating in excess of 3500 calories on some days.

I plugged in that I wanted to hit 213 lbs (BMI for large frame for me at regular weight, which is a max of 27.39*) and it said I should eat 2250 calories, so I started doing that. Once I hit 220lbs (above 220, my ankles hurt too much to jog), I started jogging a mile a day (most days).

I took a week off from work when my parents came to visit and my wife told me I had almost completely stopped snoring, likely due to my weight loss.

Today, I hit 213lbs. I am not Overweight (per BMI) for the first in more than 10 years. It's mostly due to cutting down the total calories, not what I eat. I still eat crap, just less of it. 3 cans of Coke a day (420 calories - 1 at lunch, 2 at dinner) and I am not giving that up. It's my one vice (don't smoke, rarely drink). My blood sugar is fine (for this who want to say I'm gonna be diabetic) and I have no cavities (for this who want to say I have rotten teeth). I'm hungry all the time, but I decided that I don't want to be fat, anymore, and to live long enough to enjoy retirement with my wife (who is 9 years younger than me).

/not fat!
//not skinny, either

*BMI for regular sized people and for large frame people

Based upon the size of your wrist, see which category your body frame falls into:

WOMEN
Under 62 inches - If you have a large frame your wrist size is over 5.75"
62 - 65 inches - If you have a large frame your wrist size is over 6.25"
over 65 inches - If you have a large frame your wrist size is over 6.5"

MEN:
over 65 inches - If you have a large frame your wrist size is over 7.5" (I'm 74 inches tall and my wrist size in 8.25")

Standard:
BMI Below 18.5 = Underweight.
BMI 18.5 to 24.9 = Normal.
BMI 25.0 to 29.9 = Overweight.
BMI 30.0 and above = Obese.

Large frame:
BMI Below 20.35 = Underweight.
BMI 20.35 to 27.39 = Normal.
BMI 27.4 to 32.89 = Overweight.
BMI 32.9 and above = Obese.
 
2012-09-23 04:49:34 PM

PsiChick: You want to help fat people? Shut your mouth. That is literally all it takes.


Or you could tell fat people to shut their mouths. You can't shovel a pack of bacon through a shut mouth.
 
2012-09-23 04:55:05 PM

elysive:

I dont know what youre going on about, but it sounds like youre parroting someone who was trying to promote the whole "fat burning zone". Most personal trainers ignore that zone because you burn so few calories, it is a waste of time. High intensity workouts burn a smaller fraction of cal from fat but bc they burn more cal altogether, you still end up burning more fat.


I'm not parroting anything, because I don't have weight issues so I don't have a vested interest. When I'm at work, I'm constantly eating and drinking and constantly working. On the weekends when I'm sedentary, a day's intake may be a sandwich and a couple cups of tea, since not using energy means not feeling hungry.

Being constantly active at a low intensity isnt a bad thing, but its not the most efficient way to burn calories/lose weight.


The most efficient way is to stop eating. Sure, you might die, but that's the most efficient.
 
2012-09-23 04:56:03 PM
Some great comments. I have two young kids and I'm constantly shocked at how many of their classmates are chunky. I pack my kid's lunch everyday but most of the kids eat school lunches. My kids eat lots of meat, eggs,butter, veggies, fruits, nuts, chocolate,yoghurt,cream, ice cream, cheese...REAL foods. I avoid corn syrup like the plague. I make homemade Gluten- free banana bread or some treat like that once a week. My kids look like kids did back when I was a kid. My ten year old has to wear slim sizes and she's only a few inches shorter than me. My 8 year old is starting to trend towards slim & tall sizes too.

Mainstream society still won't admit that the low-fat/high-grain diet experiment started in the ~80's is the root cause of all this fatness & disease.
 
2012-09-23 04:58:14 PM

The My Little Pony Killer: Holy shiat, what kind idiot would allow their 13-year-old to hit the 256lb mark, much less 400?


There are a lot of these idiots. A lot. Fat parents almost always turn out fat kids. And as someone else noted, because of unreasonable parental fears that someone will touch their kids pee-pees, they do not go outside and play anymore.

The whole time I was in school (years ago) I knew a few cubby children, but only two fat ones. The kids in my neighborhood who play outside every day are fit. Those who I never see - except lumbering to/from the bus stop - are all fat. I place 100% of the blame on their parents.
 
2012-09-23 04:59:03 PM

cptjeff: The My Little Pony Killer: cptjeff: I think people like me who have been raised on healthy diets and find them easy to maintain underestimate the difficulty of making that shift. But it really doesn't have to include much exercise- that's not as important a component as people often think it is. I maintain a really good form sitting at a desk all day, even though I play hockey about once a week. It will help and absolutely doesn't hurt (and would probably be useful when trying to lose weight just to get your metabolism jump started a little), but it's really not all that critical.

Your body chemistry is not equal to everybody else's body chemistry though. And telling people that exercise is pointless is an incredibly disingenuous way of going about the whole thing.


This isn't just me, this is science.

Sorry, but forcing fat people to eat better is going to get much better results than forcing them to exercise.


It's one blog that summarizes an article about hunter gatherers. I wouldn't get out the jump to conclusions mat just yet. As someone else said, just because they're walking around more to search for food doesn't mean they were expending a lot of calories. It would be smart for them to conserve energy as much as possible because food is hard to come by. The article shoots a hole in its own idea.
"In fact, the scientists calculated, the Hadza's average metabolic rate, or the number of calories that they were burning over the course of a day, was about the same as the average metabolic rate for Westerners."
There's an assumption that because they walk around that they MUST be expending more energy. It looks like that's not the case.

One of the few studies ever to have scrupulously monitored exercise, food intake and metabolic rates found that volunteers' basal metabolic rates dropped as they lost weight, even though they exercised every day

Obviously the *base* rate drops as you lose weight as weight is part of what determines metabolism (it take more calories to power a heavier human). The point is that exercise expends calories you otherwise wouldn't have burned.

Not drinking a gallon of soda a day will have a bigger impact on weight loss than 45 minutes of daily exercise, but that's because you can consume and therefore cut out far more calories than you can burn. If you jog for an hour you might burn 500 calories, but a Big Mac has 600 calories. Diet is very important, but don't disregard daily exercise.
 
2012-09-23 05:05:08 PM

BoxOfBees:

Agreed. I'm a professional in this field. There are several reasons why higher intensity exercise uses more energy. The simplest explanation is a mathematical equation, though. Energy used = work performed (oversimplifying, but not misleading). Now work is applying a force over a distance. If I apply a greater force over that distance, I need more energy to do the work. I have thus burned more "calories".


No argument here, but a person who constantly munches on powerbars and energy drinks (sports drinks, not drugged soda) during high intensity exercise to keep from bonking will be taking in more calories than someone who is riding at a more relaxed pace, not needing to keep fed to prevent bonk.

/have bonked once. 20mi from home. It sucked.
 
2012-09-23 05:06:12 PM

Baryogenesis:
There's an assumption that because they walk around that they MUST be expending more energy. It looks like that's not the case.


Walking is actually incredibly efficient energy wise. You want to waste some calories? Go for a jog. I read someplace that flat out running takes less calories per mile than jogging.
 
2012-09-23 05:08:31 PM

SundaesChild: I just had this conversation with a friend about her son who is packing on some extra weight. She doesn't know why. The kid has all the various video game systems and they are looking into getting him an iPad for Christmas - but he is 8 years old and has never ridden a bike. Get the kid a bike, for crying out loud!


I guess they feel that a broken arm at 9 years old is way worse than heart disease at 35.
 
2012-09-23 05:09:09 PM
what if i take Dr. Oz supplements like Raspberry Key-tones or Green Coffee Bean Extract
 
2012-09-23 05:29:50 PM

Jon iz teh kewl: what if i take Dr. Oz supplements like Raspberry Key-tones or Green Coffee Bean Extract


Then you have more money than brains.
 
2012-09-23 06:10:57 PM

PsiChick: MuonNeutrino: TFA: This summer, Derek could eat whenever he wanted, and the fridge was always stocked with food. At school, he says, he ate cereal or a muffin for breakfast. But over the summer, he often ate sausage and eggs. The pounds piled on.

And this is why we have these sorts of problems. It's not 'politically correct' these days to point it out, but this isn't a 'issue' to be 'managed'. The important concern here shouldn't be helping the fat kids learn to 'deal' with being fat or worrying about their sensitive little feelings being hurt because people point out that they look like whales, it should be to help them stop being fat so that they can live normal lives. Unfortunately it's not fashionable to point out that these kids have serious problems because their parents are farking morons who shouldn't be allowed to raise goldfish, let alone a kid, so the problem continues.

No, the problem is that instead of saying 'okay, you're fat, here, let's get you to a doctor and see how we can help you', people say things like, I kid you not, 'fat people should all go die lol' or 'fat people should farking kill themselves' ad nauseum.

Your world does not exist. People do not say 'okay, let's help you', people tell fat people to kill themselves because they find them ugly. That is wrong.

/You want to help fat people? Shut your mouth. That is literally all it takes. You don't even have to interact with them. Just don't tell people to die or that you hate them.
//A world full of fat people? Society can adjust. A world full of hate? Yeah, go read your history books. That's a way bigger problem.


The problem is ALSO, chickie, that we do that. I used to be a manager of a fitness center, and I'd always get in these fatties moaning about their weight. So I'd get them on a good cardio workout, doing some weightlifting, recommend aerobics and then....Tell me about your diet.

"Oh, I eat sixteen hamburgers a day and a pound and a half of lard for dinner."

So I'd tell them if they want to lose weight they need to adjust their calorie intake, and immediately the whining would start "But it's just so hard...I don't have the time...my kids...my husband...my wife...late hours at the office...I heard if you eat grapefruit/high carbs/low carbs/high protein/...what about those rapid weight loss drugs, I could try that!"

People are fat because they don't want to change their lifestyles. I'm fine with that if they want to be fat lazy slobs, and I'll shut up about it--but I expect THEM to shut up as well and stop complaining about how their knees hurt and their backs ache and how they can't find decent clothes. And to stop pointing fingers at the schools for letting their kids get fat. Be fat, fine. But stop blaming the world for your fatness.
 
2012-09-23 06:24:20 PM

Gyrfalcon: The problem is ALSO, chickie, that we do that. I used to be a manager of a fitness center, and I'd always get in these fatties moaning about their weight. So I'd get them on a good cardio workout, doing some weightlifting, recommend aerobics and then....Tell me about your diet.

"Oh, I eat sixteen hamburgers a day and a pound and a half of lard for dinner."

So I'd tell them if they want to lose weight they need to adjust their calorie intake, and immediately the whining would start "But it's just so hard...I don't have the time...my kids...my husband...my wife...late hours at the office...I heard if you eat grapefruit/high carbs/low carbs/high protein/...what about those rapid weight loss drugs, I could try that!"

People are fat because they don't want to change their lifestyles. I'm fine with that if they want to be fat lazy slobs, and I'll shut up about it--but I expect THEM to shut up as well and stop complaining about how their knees hurt and their backs ache and how they can't find decent clothes. And to stop pointing fingers at the schools for letting their kids get fat. Be fat, fine. But stop blaming the world for your fatness.


You'll notice I'm not talking about actual medical centers. I'm talking about the rest of the planet. What you hear at a medical center is obviously going to be very different, because your goals are inherently different.

In plain English, I'm talking about why Justin Beiber sucks while you're debating Mozart v. Bach. They might both be music, but they do not do the same things.
 
2012-09-23 06:35:54 PM
Subby: Thanks to new expectations being obese, obese children are even further marginalized in school

Fixed the headline.
 
2012-09-23 08:07:41 PM
He's 4 feet 11 inches and weighs 256 pounds

Holy shiat!!!

I'm a full foot taller than him and he weights literally two of me!?

/literally
 
2012-09-23 08:16:40 PM

that was my nickname in highschool: A dense book not for the feint of heart:

[ecx.images-amazon.com image 300x300]

More accessible, but written in a bit of an insulting tone:

ecx.images-amazon.com


Reading that book and acting on its advice probably saved my life. I was an obese, metabolic syndrome vegan when I went to the hospital with chest pains. Long story short? My doc said I needed to change the way I ate or the next time I might go home in a box.

Oh, and if you honestly took Taubes' tone as "insulting" you almost certainly sound like you need to take his advice.
 
2012-09-23 08:21:16 PM

Bonzo_1116: Baryogenesis:
There's an assumption that because they walk around that they MUST be expending more energy. It looks like that's not the case.

Walking is actually incredibly efficient energy wise. You want to waste some calories? Go for a jog. I read someplace that flat out running takes less calories per mile than jogging.


plus jogging with nice tiny steps is better for your knees!

I think one think a lot of people don't understand when they start exercising is that exercise makes you hungry. So if you are new to dieting then you might grab your old friends chips and dip or hamburger or something. IT is way too easy to erase HOURS of exercise just by thinking 'well, I did some exercise today so I'll eat whatever I want for dinner'.

/also people these days seem to be completely unable to cook. You don't need to cook for an hour or two a night to feed your family. When I am lazy I make frozen vegetables in the microwave and rice. Pre-package each night's meat in a baggie with a marinade so that all you have to do is bake or grill. Or if you're in a bind make quesadillas or omelettes- both are so fast! Boil a bunch of chicken breasts or a whole chicken in the weekend and shred it/chop it and use it during the week.
 
2012-09-23 08:27:45 PM

cptjeff: MajorGroove: The most obese child I have ever seen was an 11-year-old who weighed 460 lbs. I'm dead serious. He came to medical attention when he caught a hideous pneumonia and nearly died.

I would love to see all these subsidies for meat, dairy, corn, and other foodstuffs that we Americans consume FAR too much of ended and traded for broccoli, bean, and lentil subsidies. Stop making shiatty food cheap, and make the stuff that's better for you cost less. Enhance distribution of vegetables to inner cities (easier when it's cheap). Why we, as a society, allow the government to spend money to overproduce crap that makes people obese escapes me. Especially when we then turn around and whine that everyone's too fat and the government needs to fix it.

Amen brother! And anything that makes my lentil soup cheaper (seriously- I'm about addicted to the stuff) is good by me. And as a public policy matter, it's a great idea.

Of course, our great American crap food conglomerates would probably find a way to strip the nutrition out of a bean or lentil... Still, if I could get a salty snack with actual protein (besides peanuts or beef jerky), I'd be over the moon.


Roasted soybeans - 10g of protein per serving, no cholesterol, etc...

Here's a recipe to roast your own.
 
2012-09-23 08:48:58 PM
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-23 08:56:00 PM
StoneColdAtheist: Oh, and if you honestly took Taubes' tone as "insulting" you almost certainly sound like you need to take his advice.

I sound fat??

No. But I had to be careful choosing which book to recommend to my mom, who struggles with her weight and is sensitive about it.

Congrats on your journey back to health.
 
2012-09-23 09:56:37 PM

CapeFearCadaver: He's 4 feet 11 inches and weighs 256 pounds

Holy shiat!!!

I'm a full foot taller than him and he weights literally two of me!?

/literally


You sound underweight.
 
2012-09-23 11:44:59 PM

that was my nickname in highschool: StoneColdAtheist: Oh, and if you honestly took Taubes' tone as "insulting" you almost certainly sound like you need to take his advice.

I sound fat??

No. But I had to be careful choosing which book to recommend to my mom, who struggles with her weight and is sensitive about it.

Congrats on your journey back to health.


Okay, maybe my comment came out wrong. When I read his book I was felt like it was the first book I'd ever read that was honest about how I got where I was, and about what I needed to do to fix it...other than "eat less and move more", which wasn't working. Good luck to your mother.
 
2012-09-24 12:09:22 AM

tjsands1118: Maxor: How are these people doing it?

You have to eat thousands of dollars of food per month to put on that kind of weight. I'm 6'3" eat 4500 calories per day and my weight has stabilized at around 200 lbs, (in stead of dropping like a rock when I cut back a little on food.). If I'm not careful to eat enough I find that after 4 or 5 days I burn through my body fat reserves and start loosing weight to about 165 at which point either my calorie intake has to go back up or I get lethargic and light headed as well as looking like skin and bones.

Yes because everyone is just like you. I'm also 6'3", I eat around a 2200 calories a day diet. I am now 260lbs, coming down from 300lbs. I was on about 4500 calorie a day at 300lbs.

And it's not that expensive either, 2 hungry man's, a pack of oreos and a six pack of coke comes in at 3750 calories and about $10. Add a $5 McGridle meal at 860 calories, and a theirs 4610 calories at $15 a day. That's only $450 a month. Add in another $150 each day for lunch and you can knock it up another 1000 calories with a Big mac and two McChickens, or 1200 cals for a foot long Subway Meatball Pepperoni melt. Bad food is cheap and widely available.


Bad food will destroy your health. Cooking simple nutritional meals isn't complicated. MrS quit riding his bike for a year and enjoyed sitting on his ass in front of the computer eating HotPockets. I threw all that sh*t away when he was in hospital from high BP.
 
2012-09-24 12:12:36 AM

that was my nickname in highschool: No. But I had to be careful choosing which book to recommend to my mom, who struggles with her weight and is sensitive about it.



You dont need someones $20 "Get thin quick with this fail proof formula!I" book of bullshiat to lose weight. You dont need a gym to lose weight either, you can even lose tons of weight without even exercising, easily. I lost my initial ~15 (of an eventual 40) pounds just narrowing my portions of fast food. Soda and large fries is like 700+ calories PER SINGLE MEAL, I cut out 1400 calories a day by drinking a buunch of water after eating my burger. I bought a bunch of Smarties to munch as the cravings came, and I swear to you, they farking work. Chew a few smarties, itll hit a sort of sweet fix and hold you over to the next meal. Your mother is going to get acquainted with something called self control.

How hard is it really to cut out excess calories? Just order a single burger at your meal and drink wayer! Reread those 2 sentences, it really is that easy. Drinking a bunch of water on top of your new "meager" (aka normal) portions will help create a full feeling. Once she sees that initial 10-15 pounds fall off, you'll be amazed by your moms new found motivation.

/Suggesting this to her may seem awkward, but youll be improving her quality of life tremendously
//All one really has to do is narrow your portion and drink some water
 
2012-09-24 11:36:39 AM

tjsands1118: Maxor: How are these people doing it?

You have to eat thousands of dollars of food per month to put on that kind of weight. I'm 6'3" eat 4500 calories per day and my weight has stabilized at around 200 lbs, (in stead of dropping like a rock when I cut back a little on food.). If I'm not careful to eat enough I find that after 4 or 5 days I burn through my body fat reserves and start loosing weight to about 165 at which point either my calorie intake has to go back up or I get lethargic and light headed as well as looking like skin and bones.

Yes because everyone is just like you. I'm also 6'3", I eat around a 2200 calories a day diet. I am now 260lbs, coming down from 300lbs. I was on about 4500 calorie a day at 300lbs.

And it's not that expensive either, 2 hungry man's, a pack of oreos and a six pack of coke comes in at 3750 calories and about $10. Add a $5 McGridle meal at 860 calories, and a theirs 4610 calories at $15 a day. That's only $450 a month. Add in another $150 each day for lunch and you can knock it up another 1000 calories with a Big mac and two McChickens, or 1200 cals for a foot long Subway Meatball Pepperoni melt. Bad food is cheap and widely available.


Your basic numbers are about right though I'd say that with current prices the basic meal is closer $15, before the McGriddle for breakfast. Lets split the difference and say $22 per day with breakfast and lunch. Assuming a moderately active lifestyle, Walking to the bus stop, recess and a bit of after school play. Then school, and coming home and doing homework. Not what ever slothfulness you engage in and they are spending over $30,000 per year to feed a family of 4 like that not exactly cheap eats..Assuming $650 for rent or mortgage (honestly fairly low for a family of 4), then car and insurance bills of $650 combined. That leaves them right at $4000 per year on a median family income in the US for all other things. Maybe I'm missing how all that works out.
 
2012-09-24 12:15:31 PM
Solution: DON'T BE FAT!

DON'T ALLOW FAT PEOPLE TO FARK AND MAKE MORE FAT PEOPLE.

How hard is that? 

We really need to thin the heard. There's too much stoopid in the gene pool.

I'm looking at you, Right Wing America. 

And my other eye's looking at you jobless OWS hippies.
 
2012-09-24 01:41:27 PM

RevMark: Solution: DON'T BE FAT!

DON'T ALLOW FAT PEOPLE TO FARK AND MAKE MORE FAT PEOPLE.

How hard is that? 

We really need to thin the heard. There's too much stoopid in the gene pool.

I'm looking at you, Right Wing America. 

And my other eye's looking at you jobless OWS hippies.


Revmark - 2
Strawmen - 0
 
2012-09-24 01:54:10 PM

Mister Peejay: elysive:

I dont know what youre going on about, but it sounds like youre parroting someone who was trying to promote the whole "fat burning zone". Most personal trainers ignore that zone because you burn so few calories, it is a waste of time. High intensity workouts burn a smaller fraction of cal from fat but bc they burn more cal altogether, you still end up burning more fat.

I'm not parroting anything, because I don't have weight issues so I don't have a vested interest. When I'm at work, I'm constantly eating and drinking and constantly working. On the weekends when I'm sedentary, a day's intake may be a sandwich and a couple cups of tea, since not using energy means not feeling hungry.


Clearly you admitted to parroting the cycling magazine guy, but I didn't realize you hadn't even bothered trying to lose weight with his recommendations yourself!! LOL Just because you read something doesn't make it true. I hate to break it to you, but burning 400 calories in 30 minutes is the same as burning 400 calories over 2 hours. The only difference is that most people don't have the time or patience to work out 2 hours every day. I am one of those weirdos who does long workouts, but if I want to dedicate 2+ hours to exercise, I want to burn more a heck of a lot more than 400 calories.

Ultimately it's better to burn more calories/create a larger caloric deficit than to worry about whether you are in a carb or fat zone. Then there is a small matter where you actually burn more fat calories when you work out more intensely...it's a math thing.

I'm glad you have a good control over your appetite and don't eat when you're not expending energy. Good for you!

/If a person is afraid of intense exercise, toodling around at low intensity for hours is better than nothing. Just know that low-intensity activity wont make your heart strong.
 
2012-09-24 02:00:47 PM
The really sad thing to me is these kids whose parents are so full of STRANGER DANGER that they won't let their precious wee ones outside. A lot of these (I'm talking age 4-10) kids are BORED while they're trapped indoors like this. They really want to go and do something, and would jump at the chance to do something as simple as go over to their friend up the street's house and play in the sprinkler. But these paranoid parents won't let them out of sight, so there's nothing left but to eat out of boredom and play video games.
Anyone who goes to an elementary school during recess hours would see that most of these kids are not being lazy during their (unfortunately ever shorter) interval of free time. They just need more of it.
 
2012-09-24 02:13:54 PM

Mister Peejay: BoxOfBees:

Agreed. I'm a professional in this field. There are several reasons why higher intensity exercise uses more energy. The simplest explanation is a mathematical equation, though. Energy used = work performed (oversimplifying, but not misleading). Now work is applying a force over a distance. If I apply a greater force over that distance, I need more energy to do the work. I have thus burned more "calories".


No argument here, but a person who constantly munches on powerbars and energy drinks (sports drinks, not drugged soda) during high intensity exercise to keep from bonking will be taking in more calories than someone who is riding at a more relaxed pace, not needing to keep fed to prevent bonk.

/have bonked once. 20mi from home. It sucked.


Huh? I suppose that is true that people who eat take in more food than people who don't eat (really, that's your point?), but the high intensity person will hopefully expend far more calories so it evens out or the high intensity person will still burn more calories. You're only supposed to eat approx. 100 calories every 45-60 min. depending on the intensity of the exercise.

I assure you that my partner burns a heck of a lot more calories running a half marathon at a 7 min mile pace, consuming 300 calories of sugar, than a person of the same body weight running 7.5 miles at an 12 min pace (a pretty leisurely jogging pace). Both would take about 90 minutes to complete their runs and incidentally the slow runner would possibly need at least one 100 cal shot of sugar to keep going for an hour and a half.

Even moderate to low intensity exercisers need to feed to prevent depletion of glycogen stores. That's why hikers take food on long hikes to avoid "bonks" or "crashes" or "hitting the wall" or "being devoured by vultures". That super high intensity activity called sleep even depletes our glycogen stores!
 
2012-09-24 02:24:31 PM

D_Evans45: that was my nickname in highschool: No. But I had to be careful choosing which book to recommend to my mom, who struggles with her weight and is sensitive about it.


You dont need someones $20 "Get thin quick with this fail proof formula!I" book of bullshiat to lose weight. You dont need a gym to lose weight either, you can even lose tons of weight without even exercising, easily. I lost my initial ~15 (of an eventual 40) pounds just narrowing my portions of fast food. Soda and large fries is like 700+ calories PER SINGLE MEAL, I cut out 1400 calories a day by drinking a buunch of water after eating my burger. I bought a bunch of Smarties to munch as the cravings came, and I swear to you, they farking work. Chew a few smarties, itll hit a sort of sweet fix and hold you over to the next meal. Your mother is going to get acquainted with something called self control.
...
//All one really has to do is narrow your portion and drink some water


Your suggestion is to give Smarties or pure sugar to a very likely food addict? Nice job. Why not just have her free base it?

/If you want to give her a "sweet fix", the answer is fruit, but it has to be the person's absolute favorite type of fruit, no expense spared.

It took me years to love all kinds of fruit, but ultimately getting rid of bread and refined carbs help curb the sugar cravings better than anything. Fruit is now just a fantastic treat. In the meantime, nutty, cheesy and veggie snacks are a lot safer than pure sugar. 

I also second the water recommendation, but no family member ever takes this advice ever.
 
2012-09-24 04:26:18 PM

jayphat: my lip balm addiction: AbbeySomeone: I blame the parents and a society so wrapped up in fear that a child can't walk or ride their bikes to school, or play outside.
TFA was both sad and disgusting.

I blame the GOP. Look at the biatchfest they put on when Michelle Obama wanted to get kids eating healthier. She instantly became this shrewish troll in their eyes despite all facts and evidence to the contrary.

/fark the GOP fatties
//may you all die in an Oreo-encrusted Hell

I don't have a problem with Michelle getting the kids healthier meals in school. Great. I have a problem where she encourages schools to write policies that prohibit kids from bringing their own meals. I have an ultra high metabolism. I'm 6'4", 141 lbs. I need a lot of calories in my diet during the day and I struggled with that in school on the days they served "healthy" meals.


Dude. You should box if you're still young. A junior welterweight with an average of a one-foot height advantage? You could jab your way to a world championship.

/At 18 was 6" and 130. Jabbed the shiat out of all the other junior lightweights.
//Filled out... the middleweights kicked my ass.
 
2012-09-24 05:51:31 PM

cptjeff: The My Little Pony Killer: cptjeff: I think people like me who have been raised on healthy diets and find them easy to maintain underestimate the difficulty of making that shift. But it really doesn't have to include much exercise- that's not as important a component as people often think it is. I maintain a really good form sitting at a desk all day, even though I play hockey about once a week. It will help and absolutely doesn't hurt (and would probably be useful when trying to lose weight just to get your metabolism jump started a little), but it's really not all that critical.

Your body chemistry is not equal to everybody else's body chemistry though. And telling people that exercise is pointless is an incredibly disingenuous way of going about the whole thing.


This isn't just me, this is science.

Sorry, but forcing fat people to eat better is going to get much better results than forcing them to exercise.


That's why you have them focus on both. Diet isn't just the foods that you eat, and "going on a diet" doesn't mean "until I'm at my ideal weight." Diet IS lifestyle. Your little NYTimes links can't change that.
 
2012-09-24 05:57:08 PM

cptjeff: Unless you're a nutritionist, the fact that you work in the health industry really doesn't mean much at all.


The stuff I'm telling you is stuff I've learned directly from a nutritionist. Telling people not to exercise is harmful. Stop doing that.
 
2012-09-24 06:08:47 PM

RevMark: I'm looking at you, Right Wing America. 

And my other eye's looking at you jobless OWS hippies.


i2.kym-cdn.com
 
2012-09-24 08:16:53 PM

elysive: D_Evans45: //All one really has to do is narrow your portion and drink some water

Your suggestion is to give Smarties or pure sugar to a very likely food addict?



In very small amounts to cure incremental cravings? Is that hard for you to wrap your brain around? Youll also notice I stated you can easily lose weight while still eating fast food, wheres your pedantic outrage there?
 
2012-09-25 01:09:58 AM

D_Evans45: elysive: D_Evans45: //All one really has to do is narrow your portion and drink some water

Your suggestion is to give Smarties or pure sugar to a very likely food addict?


In very small amounts to cure incremental cravings? Is that hard for you to wrap your brain around? Youll also notice I stated you can easily lose weight while still eating fast food, wheres your pedantic outrage there?


There's no outrage...just mockery. Telling a sugar addict to eat a little bit of sugar is like telling a coke addict to limit themselves to very small amounts of cocaine. One serious exception is after intense exercise. If a person wants to splurge on sugary dessert, eating it after exercise will help prevent spikes in blood sugar and subsequent cravings.

Why do I care about your fast food comment? A person can lose weight on something as unhealthy as a twinkie diet. Most people aren't stupid enough to actually try such a thing, but it's not my problem if you are.
 
2012-09-25 01:33:18 AM

The My Little Pony Killer: cptjeff: Unless you're a nutritionist, the fact that you work in the health industry really doesn't mean much at all.

The stuff I'm telling you is stuff I've learned directly from a nutritionist. Telling people not to exercise is harmful. Stop doing that.


Is anyone here aware that nutritionists aren't professionally regulated and don't necessarily have any standard credentials to speak of? cptjeff would have sounded more badass if he said "registered dietitian", which is actually a regulated and quality-controlled profession. I could probably call myself a nutritionist and con someone into paying me money so long as I am careful not to infringe on the practice of dietetics.

I periodically hear about "nutritionists" recommending their clients go gluten free for non-medical reasons or no carb and other bizarre things. I find it hard to believe that a dietitian would promote such things if they have institutional oversight. 

/*high five* to The My Little Pony Killer
//telling people who already do the minimum to take care of themselves that exercise is unnecessary to achieve their goals is essentially telling them not to exercise...it's also untrue that exercise is useless for weight loss, but we got some nutritionist badassery up in here who apparently knows all the single research study conducted over the last 50 years on the topic
 
2012-09-25 12:08:33 PM

jayphat: I don't have a problem with Michelle getting the kids healthier meals in school. Great. I have a problem where she encourages schools to write policies that prohibit kids from bringing their own meals.


Citation Needed.

I've been googling around, and apparently one school in Chicago tried this stunt with banning meals from home.

So, where did Michelle Obama personally support or suggest that? Yeah, as First Lady her issue has been children's nutrition. Big deal, Nancy Reagan was the champion of "Just Say No". First ladies having some kind of social cause is nothing new.

Where is the correlation that one school in Chicago banning lunches from home is directly because of Michelle Obama? When has she said that she doesn't want children to bring lunches from home and wants schools to ban them? I'm seeing a lot of blaming her for it on right-wing blogs and magazines (like National Review), but no direct quotes or actual evidence that she suggested, recommended, pressured or ordered it.

Or is this one Principal at a school somewhere making a dumbass decision and it getting blamed on the Obamas because everything everywhere is their fault?
 
2012-09-25 08:42:48 PM

elysive: Telling a sugar addict to eat a little bit of sugar is like telling a coke addict to limit themselves to very small amounts of cocaine.



Because all fat people are sugar addicts? I was fat because I love steak and burgers, not because I like cake and muffins. Cake is waaay too sweet to get fat on.

Sounds to me like youre the type of fatty who eats too much cake and such. While handing someone like you a sliver of pressed Smartie is like handing a child a loaded weapon apparently, it was the silver bullet to cure cravings before my fatass could start to overeat.
 
2012-09-26 11:48:30 AM

D_Evans45: elysive: Telling a sugar addict to eat a little bit of sugar is like telling a coke addict to limit themselves to very small amounts of cocaine.

Because all fat people are sugar addicts? I was fat because I love steak and burgers, not because I like cake and muffins. Cake is waaay too sweet to get fat on.


Cravings are typically about insulin levels, which are moderated by [wait for it]...sugars. Calories in/out is a great and easy model if you are simply a glutton who eats like a pig (which apparently you did) but most people actually are addicted to carbs. When consulting a person who is looking to lose weight, we remove sources of pure sugar and refined carbs and introduce fruit as an alternative. After removing the "crack" addiction, portion control is typically much easier to regulate.

Even salty/savory gluttons should probably opt for fruit over sugar if they want a healthy diet and to lose weight, but you eat whatever the fark you want. Just be prepared to be called out when you give crap weight loss advice on a public forum.

Sounds to me like youre the type of fatty who eats too much cake and such. While handing someone like you a sliver of pressed Smartie is like handing a child a loaded weapon apparently, it was the silver bullet to cure cravings before my fatass could start to overeat.

I was a fatty past tense. I have long overcome that hurdle and typically help other people overcome this hurdle now. And no, rarely does that help involve keeping sugar around the house. I suppose if you and your friends find success with this, go for it. In my experience, pure sugar is not generally good for the body unless you are exercising intensely. I don't see why you or anyone else needs to keep crap on hand to put it in your body. There are much healthier snacks (and tastier/more satisfying) to keep in your house unless you are a cheapskate.
 
2012-09-26 09:09:55 PM
elysive - Calories in/out is a great and easy model if you are simply a glutton who eats like a pig (which apparently you did) but most people actually are addicted to carbs.


I know way too many fatties who eat based on triggers, not usually some type of timed insulin release based on their previous meal. I mostly got cravings when I was depressed, really bored, or when I saw good food. Also, I fail to see the distinction between a "carb addict" and a "simple glutton". Carb addiction sounds like a fatty excuse to me, anyone struggling with "carb addiction" is already a glutton. Take the sweets out of the equation, and put a platter of gourmet roasted meats in them, they're still going to overeat.
 
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