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(Scientific American)   Researcher thinks he's discovered how to get liberals and conservatives to play nice with each other. Pre-frontal lobotomies all around surprisingly absent   (scientificamerican.com) divider line 142
    More: Unlikely, Jonathan Haidt, social psychologist, liberals, emotions  
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7245 clicks; posted to Geek » on 23 Sep 2012 at 10:31 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-23 09:12:50 AM
Wait... Can we at least consider the lobotomy thing?
 
2012-09-23 09:13:56 AM
FTA:
"Conservatives who are religious have this mind-set about being good stewards of the earth, to protect God's creation, and that is very compatible with green energy and conservation and other ideas that are usually classified as liberal," Nail says.

I've found this to be demonstrably untrue amongst most of the religious conservatives that I know. Many of them seriously believe that this world "shall pass away" and they will be in heaven and God will create a new Earth that Jesus will rule for eternity. They don't care about pollution or conservation since "Jesus is coming back any day now". They don't worry about starting wars in the ME because they think that will just usher in the "end times" faster and they'll be raptured to heaven any minute now...
 
2012-09-23 09:36:18 AM
The researcher is, clearly, an accomodationist Islamo-fascist communist who hates America and freedom.
 
2012-09-23 09:37:46 AM
While I always appreciate these sorts of reports that conservatives are pants-pissing children, imposing their own version of order upon a world that intimidates and frightens them, I'd like to see a more expansive study done across multiple countries. If these results are "part of human nature," then show that. A group of college students' dorm rooms are hardly indicative of an innate part of human psychology.
 
2012-09-23 10:17:09 AM
I've always thought the underpinnings of conservative thought are fear and ignorance. (Which causes which is a chicken/egg question.) It's nice to see a little science, and this is a very little bit of science, back up a notion. Because as a lib, I need science to back up the things I think are true.
 
2012-09-23 10:21:34 AM

Bashar and Asma's Infinite Playlist: While I always appreciate these sorts of reports that conservatives are pants-pissing children, imposing their own version of order upon a world that intimidates and frightens them, I'd like to see a more expansive study done across multiple countries. If these results are "part of human nature," then show that. A group of college students' dorm rooms are hardly indicative of an innate part of human psychology.


A more extensive study
Link
 
2012-09-23 10:37:25 AM
Actually I see Republicans - Conservatives in general more willing to resort to extremism and condoning violence on people who don't accept their faiths, ideology and general world view as compared to Democrats - Liberals who are more willing to negotiate. A balance is good, but we can't achieve any sort of balance because of polarization on both sides.
 
2012-09-23 10:38:18 AM

Via Infinito: FTA:
"Conservatives who are religious have this mind-set about being good stewards of the earth, to protect God's creation, and that is very compatible with green energy and conservation and other ideas that are usually classified as liberal," Nail says.

I've found this to be demonstrably untrue amongst most of the religious conservatives that I know. Many of them seriously believe that this world "shall pass away" and they will be in heaven and God will create a new Earth that Jesus will rule for eternity. They don't care about pollution or conservation since "Jesus is coming back any day now". They don't worry about starting wars in the ME because they think that will just usher in the "end times" faster and they'll be raptured to heaven any minute now...


Exactly, I've known a number of conservatives who were specifically anti-environmental because they think that it shows a lack of piety to plan for the Earth to be around longer than a few more months or years. They have convinced themselves that any day now, Jesus will come back, smite the Muslims/Terrorists/Atheists/Liberals/Democrats//InsertBoogiemanHere and take all the good Christians (which they automatically count themselves as) up to Heaven, so they are just making it day by day and enjoying life (and trying to make as much money as they can so they an enjoy that life). 

This religiously centered mindset lets them frame everyone and everything they don't like as objectively Evil, and disregard anything that conflicts with this as being Satanic deception. President Obama? Antichrist. Liberals? Satanic conspiracy. Islam? Evil Pagan Religious worshiping a "Moon God"
 
2012-09-23 10:41:51 AM

Ennuipoet: I've always thought the underpinnings of conservative thought are fear and ignorance. (Which causes which is a chicken/egg question.) It's nice to see a little science, and this is a very little bit of science, back up a notion. Because as a lib, I need science to back up the things I think are true.


The underpinnings of both sides are based on fear and ignorance, they just fear and are ignorant of different things. Personally I've found the key to getting along with libs is to recognize that we both want to solve similar problems, we've just got different ways of doing it. It also helps if both of us are able to laugh at ourselves without getting butthurt.
 
2012-09-23 10:41:51 AM
Lincoln found that when viewing a collage of photographs, conservatives' eyes unconsciously lingered 15 percent longer on repellent images, such as car wrecks and excrement-suggesting that conservatives are more attuned than liberals to assessing potential threats.

I think "perceiving" or perhaps "actively seeking" would be better used in this circumstance. I haven't seen any real evidence lately to support the theory that valid assessments are being made of perceived threats from either side of the aisle lately. I'd be lying if I said I didn't agree that one side appears to be wearing magnifying glasses while the other wears blinders, however.
 
2012-09-23 10:41:54 AM
Either way this thread will be a huge attempt by individual posters to assert that their particular ideology (which is always neither right nor left) is the best one and all other ideologies are corrupt.

For my attempt at this, I will assert that the only ideology one should have is rational deduction. That all to often people in America align themselves to a side and try and contort things to fit their preconceived narrative.
 
2012-09-23 10:45:41 AM

Via Infinito: FTA:
"Conservatives who are religious have this mind-set about being good stewards of the earth, to protect God's creation, and that is very compatible with green energy and conservation and other ideas that are usually classified as liberal," Nail says.

I've found this to be demonstrably untrue amongst most of the religious conservatives that I know. Many of them seriously believe that this world "shall pass away" and they will be in heaven and God will create a new Earth that Jesus will rule for eternity. They don't care about pollution or conservation since "Jesus is coming back any day now". They don't worry about starting wars in the ME because they think that will just usher in the "end times" faster and they'll be raptured to heaven any minute now...


That's been my experience too.
 
2012-09-23 10:46:28 AM
I thought a lobotomy was a prerequisite of being a Democrat.

Howard Stern Proving My Point
 
2012-09-23 10:47:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SeJbOU4nmHQ&feature=youtu.be
 
2012-09-23 10:47:19 AM

Via Infinito: FTA:
"Conservatives who are religious have this mind-set about being good stewards of the earth, to protect God's creation, and that is very compatible with green energy and conservation and other ideas that are usually classified as liberal," Nail says.

I've found this to be demonstrably untrue amongst most of the religious conservatives that I know. Many of them seriously believe that this world "shall pass away" and they will be in heaven and God will create a new Earth that Jesus will rule for eternity. They don't care about pollution or conservation since "Jesus is coming back any day now". They don't worry about starting wars in the ME because they think that will just usher in the "end times" faster and they'll be raptured to heaven any minute now...


THIS is not helping.
 
2012-09-23 10:48:10 AM
Frontal lobotomies would just make everyone a Republican and not really "bring the ideologies to compromise".
 
2012-09-23 10:49:16 AM

NewportBarGuy: Wait... Can we at least consider the lobotomy thing?


It's been tried. Results: Texas Republicans* and CODEPINK**.


*Whose official party platform includes planks against voting rights, teaching critical thinking skills, and against teaching science in science classrooms. They have real political power.

**Wear boas and are obnoxious. Are against wars and for Ru RON PAUL. Have no political power.
 
2012-09-23 10:49:56 AM

CanisNoir: Ennuipoet: I've always thought the underpinnings of conservative thought are fear and ignorance. (Which causes which is a chicken/egg question.) It's nice to see a little science, and this is a very little bit of science, back up a notion. Because as a lib, I need science to back up the things I think are true.

The underpinnings of both sides are based on fear and ignorance, they just fear and are ignorant of different things. Personally I've found the key to getting along with libs is to recognize that we both want to solve similar problems, we've just got different ways of doing it. It also helps if both of us are able to laugh at ourselves without getting butthurt.


Could you give a few examples of liberal's fear and ignorance you speak of? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I don't see it.
 
2012-09-23 10:49:57 AM
The conservatives I know, even the religious ones, are not environmentalists. But it's not because of their belief in god, it's because of their belief in business. They figure tree huggers and such are just naive kumbayaa-ing idiots, whereas business makes jobs and lives in the real world.

/Ie, business is their god
 
2012-09-23 10:50:48 AM
I'll never play nice with those pricks.
 
2012-09-23 10:51:24 AM

Mrbogey: For my attempt at this, I will assert that the only ideology one should have is rational deduction.


That's a tricky one - as a relatively liberal technical guy I understand why it's appealing, but in my opinion it just doesn't reflect the richness of the human condition so doesn't really work as the basis of a political system.
 
2012-09-23 10:51:33 AM

Via Infinito: I've found this to be demonstrably untrue amongst most of the religious conservatives that I know.


Same thing I've found. Not only is there this idea the world shall pass, but some will go so far as to try and speed along this process. I have also heard arguments, frequently on climate change, about how arrogant humans are to think we could cause such change. Often, I see this as an interpretation of 'dominion' over Earth permitting them to use everything, not to take care of.

psychologists reframed climate change not as a challenge to government and industry but as "a threat to the American way of life." After reading a passage that couched environmental action as patriotic, study participants who displayed traits typical of conservatives were much more likely to sign petitions about preventing oil spills and protecting the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge.

Of course, because this is exactly what conservative leaders do now to get conservative support on an issue. Anything and everything threatens the American way of life, so vote and voice this way.
 
2012-09-23 10:51:36 AM

demaL-demaL-yeH: NewportBarGuy: Wait... Can we at least consider the lobotomy thing?

It's been tried. Results: Texas Republicans* and CODEPINK**.


*Whose official party platform includes planks against voting rights,

against teaching critical thinking skills, and against teaching science in science classrooms. They have real political power.

**Wear boas and are obnoxious. Are against wars and for Ru RON PAUL. Have no political power.


FTFM
 
2012-09-23 10:51:47 AM
This study didn't come from the Ivy League; it can't be true.
 
2012-09-23 10:52:51 AM

NewportBarGuy: Wait... Can we at least consider the lobotomy thing?


Funnily enough (to me, at least) I once ran into Stephen Harper and his entourage some years before he became Canada's conservative Prime Minister. When one of his aids asked me if they could count on my vote, I promised him that voting for the Conservative Party would be the first thing I would do if ever I was to undergo a lobotomy. He, the aid, didn't smile. I don't think Harper heard me.

Used the same line on a former classmate who was running as a Conservative in a federal election. He also did not smile.

/Harper is surprisingly tall
 
2012-09-23 10:53:02 AM
No idea who Paul Nail is, but he is apparently the professor of Derpspeech and holds a Ph. D. in it.
 
2012-09-23 10:54:07 AM
My much simpler plan: Get rid of that shiatbag lying network Fox News. They've done more to incite divisiveness than any single entity this nation has ever seen.
 
2012-09-23 10:54:18 AM
Liberals love America the way mature adults engage in relationships -- thoughtfully, with a spirit of compassion and compromise, and a willingness to admit mistakes and try harder.

Conservatives love America (the part that's just like them, anyway) the way a three-year-old boy loves his mommy -- Mommy is good, kind, and smart, and always right, and anyone who criticizes her is awful and evil and needs to be punished.

In general, I mean. . . .
 
2012-09-23 10:54:55 AM
Researcher thinks he's discovered how to get liberals and conservatives to play nice with each other.

Have a person's name and address follow everyone's posting on the internet would make people much more civil.
 
2012-09-23 10:55:37 AM
Haidt is not out to change people's deepest moral beliefs. Yet he thinks that if people could see that those they disagree with are not immoral but simply emphasizing different moral principles, some of the antagonism would subside.

Sounds like a libtard to me.
 
2012-09-23 10:55:40 AM

Krymson Tyde: CanisNoir: Ennuipoet: I've always thought the underpinnings of conservative thought are fear and ignorance. (Which causes which is a chicken/egg question.) It's nice to see a little science, and this is a very little bit of science, back up a notion. Because as a lib, I need science to back up the things I think are true.

The underpinnings of both sides are based on fear and ignorance, they just fear and are ignorant of different things. Personally I've found the key to getting along with libs is to recognize that we both want to solve similar problems, we've just got different ways of doing it. It also helps if both of us are able to laugh at ourselves without getting butthurt.

Could you give a few examples of liberal's fear and ignorance you speak of? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I don't see it.


There's arguably a lot that's quite 'conservative' about many liberal viewpoints - a focus on reducing the risk of negative outcomes (e.g. through social security, the 'precautionary principle' applied to the environment and development etc.) rather than improving the likelihood of positives (e.g. through free enterprise).
 
2012-09-23 10:56:47 AM
FTFA: "For example, in a study published in January, a team led by psychologist Michael Dodd and political scientist John Hibbing of the University of Nebraska-Lincoln found that when viewing a collage of photographs, conservatives' eyes unconsciously lingered 15 percent longer on repellent images, such as car wrecks and excrement-suggesting that conservatives are more attuned than liberals to assessing potential threats.

Well, that's a pretty nice way to spin that.
 
2012-09-23 10:58:34 AM

indarwinsshadow: Actually I see Republicans - Conservatives in general more willing to resort to extremism and condoning violence on people who don't accept their faiths, ideology and general world view as compared to Democrats - Liberals who are more willing to negotiate. A balance is good, but we can't achieve any sort of balance because of polarization on both sides.


I've never yet met a person who calls himself a Conservative that wished to use violence for other than defensive purposes and/or in reaction to prior aggression, like 9/11. But then again, I know no Liberals who condone violence either. What you have here is more a knee-jerk world view about people whom you do not understand. Were Conservatives, Liberals or whomever "more willing to resort to extremism and condoning violence on people..." there would be blood flowing knee deep in the streets, and it just isn't how the real world works. Not in America. Folks here aren't that way, regardless of your 'feelings' about it.

/reassuming lotus position
 
2012-09-23 10:58:35 AM

i upped my meds-up yours: The conservatives I know, even the religious ones, are not environmentalists. But it's not because of their belief in god, it's because of their belief in business. They figure tree huggers and such are just naive kumbayaa-ing idiots, whereas business makes jobs and lives in the real world.

/Ie, business is their god


Jesus said a lot of about what are considered treasures in this world being worthless to God. If nature is God's wondrous creation, and what mankind considers valuable is worthless to God, then what makes these "Christians" think that God is going to give then a pass for shiatting all over His hard work just to earn more of what is worthless to Him?
 
2012-09-23 10:58:53 AM
CanisNoir: Personally I've found the key to getting along with libs...

pic.epicfail.com

If you see America as consisting of "Liberals" and "Conservatives" then you have, and always will, fail at thinking.

/there is no hope for you
 
2012-09-23 10:59:56 AM

smitty04: Researcher thinks he's discovered how to get liberals and conservatives to play nice with each other.

Have a person's name and address follow everyone's posting on the internet would make people much more civil.


No, it would stifle open conversation & put people with unpopular opinions in the cross hairs of nut jobs.
 
2012-09-23 11:01:45 AM

austin_millbarge: My much simpler plan: Get rid of that shiatbag lying network Fox News. They've done more to incite divisiveness than any single entity this nation has ever seen.


Then who would be willing to point out that NBC edited George Zimmerman's words in order to make him sound guilty.
 
2012-09-23 11:02:02 AM
I keep coming back to ethics vs. morals when I think about libs vs. cons. But it's really hard to explain the difference between ethics (very, very Q&D, what society should do) and morals (what individuals should do). Let alone where one side leans moral and the other ethical.
 
2012-09-23 11:02:22 AM

Krymson Tyde: Could you give a few examples of liberal's fear and ignorance you speak of? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I don't see it.


OMG We're killing the planet!!!
OMG Millions will die without Health Care!!
OMG If Romneys elected he'll usher in a Mormon Theocracy!!
OMG Republicans want to poison the water and starve old people!!


1) Climate has been changing on planet Earth before humans were even a speck in the goo of life. That's not to say we don't have an effect on our environment, but the science is still *out* on whether or not we are the main factor behind current climate trends or if we're just kind of piggy backing onto a trend that would have happened naturally.
2) We don't have a plague of dead running rampant in the country due to nobody taking care of them when they are sick. The health care system was designed for WWII and certainly needs to be overhauled and looked at, but millions will not die without Obamacare. (Which made nobody happy anyway)
3) Even *if* Romney were elected, the country would survive and power would be passed on again in four to eight years. The country has suffered some pretty shaitty presidents in the past and made it through just fine. Neither Obama nor Romney will be the death of us.
4) No, they don't, just NO.

Fear is a good motivator and both sides use it to prod their base into getting out and voting.
 
2012-09-23 11:03:17 AM
I don't want to play nice anymore. Neocons/fundies stopped playing by civilized rules.... so lets play scorched earth.
 
2012-09-23 11:03:40 AM

CanisNoir:
The underpinnings of both sides are based on fear and ignorance, they just fear and are ignorant of different things. Personally I've found the key to getting along with libs is to recognize that we both want to solve similar problems, we've just got different ways of doing it. It also helps if both of us are able to laugh at ourselves without getting butthurt.


The problem with that is that there appears to be segments of both parties who are not interested in solving problems. They're interested in playing politics or pushing an ideology.
 
2012-09-23 11:04:19 AM
Good luck, politics is division by definition.
 
2012-09-23 11:06:00 AM

Mean Daddy: I thought a lobotomy was a prerequisite of being a Democrat.

Howard Stern Proving My Point


Howard Stern is a Democrat.
 
2012-09-23 11:06:20 AM

CanisNoir: Ennuipoet: I've always thought the underpinnings of conservative thought are fear and ignorance. (Which causes which is a chicken/egg question.) It's nice to see a little science, and this is a very little bit of science, back up a notion. Because as a lib, I need science to back up the things I think are true.

The underpinnings of both sides are based on fear and ignorance, they just fear and are ignorant of different things. Personally I've found the key to getting along with libs is to recognize that we both want to solve similar problems, we've just got different ways of doing it. It also helps if both of us are able to laugh at ourselves without getting butthurt.


Right on, bro.

Regardless of one's irrational political belief system, it is really just about access to affordable goods and services. The divide is over how we attain them. Should they be products openly bought and sold in a competitive marketplace (Capitalism), or should they be provided by a hopefully benign political bureacracy (Socialism). What we have now is a mixture of the two (Fascism). But it's just goods and services.
 
2012-09-23 11:08:44 AM
I've literally been told that "I have the look of the devil" when a conservative found out I was an atheist. I have also literally been called a "backward thinking moron" by a liberal for being too conservative. This was in the span of about a week.

There is no getting along. People live to fight and since we can't kill each other, they resort to petty bickering. I just hope to be on the sidelines when shiat really hits the fan.
 
2012-09-23 11:09:22 AM

thunderbird8804: Good luck, politics is division by definition.


I don't mind Liberals but those Progressives are batshiat crazy (We were all young, ignorant and Liberal at one time.).
 
2012-09-23 11:10:58 AM

Mrbogey: Either way this thread will be a huge attempt by individual posters to assert that their particular ideology (which is always neither right nor left) is the best one and all other ideologies are corrupt.

For my attempt at this, I will assert that the only ideology one should have is rational deduction. That all to often people in America align themselves to a side and try and contort things to fit their preconceived narrative.


You make so much sense tha I will make a point to not invite you to upcoming flame wars. You take all the fun out of hate and fear. Just reading your post makes my caps lock button jump from my keyboard in despair.

/but wish to subscribe to your newsletter
 
2012-09-23 11:11:42 AM

markfara: Liberals love America the way mature adults engage in relationships -- thoughtfully, with a spirit of compassion and compromise, and a willingness to admit mistakes and try harder.

Conservatives love America (the part that's just like them, anyway) the way a three-year-old boy loves his mommy -- Mommy is good, kind, and smart, and always right, and anyone who criticizes her is awful and evil and needs to be punished.

In general, I mean. . . .


My anecdotal research reflects this notion.
 
2012-09-23 11:11:55 AM

CanisNoir: Krymson Tyde: Could you give a few examples of liberal's fear and ignorance you speak of? I'm not saying it doesn't exist, just that I don't see it.

OMG We're killing the planet!!!
OMG Millions will die without Health Care!!
OMG If Romneys elected he'll usher in a Mormon Theocracy!!
OMG Republicans want to poison the water and starve old people!!


1) Climate has been changing on planet Earth before humans were even a speck in the goo of life. That's not to say we don't have an effect on our environment, but the science is still *out* on whether or not we are the main factor behind current climate trends or if we're just kind of piggy backing onto a trend that would have happened naturally.
2) We don't have a plague of dead running rampant in the country due to nobody taking care of them when they are sick. The health care system was designed for WWII and certainly needs to be overhauled and looked at, but millions will not die without Obamacare. (Which made nobody happy anyway)
3) Even *if* Romney were elected, the country would survive and power would be passed on again in four to eight years. The country has suffered some pretty shaitty presidents in the past and made it through just fine. Neither Obama nor Romney will be the death of us.
4) No, they don't, just NO.

Fear is a good motivator and both sides use it to prod their base into getting out and voting.


Thanks for taking the time to come in here and confirm the article's point.
 
2012-09-23 11:12:01 AM
FTA: "Blue state, red state. Big government, big business. Gay rights, fetal rights. The United States is riven by the politics of extremes. "

Preventing discrimination against gays and lesbians is "Extreme" now? Maybe in 1980... Or maybe if you look like a starring cast member in the movie "Cocoon", but I hardly find civil rights to be "politics of extremes".

Anyways though, the problem with the inability of the House of Representatives to do anything is Gerrymandering, not Left/Right divides. When they chop up their districts in such a way that there's no competition, then the primary election for any given house seat is the only one that matters. The only people who turn out for the primary election are the hardcore party faithful which in turn results in the house being stacked with far left / far right nutjobs.

It's clearly obvious that this is the issue and there are tons of available solutions for it, especially in states which allow voter initiatives.
 
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