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(CBS News)   Wealthy couple who collected welfare also collect new orange wardrobe   (cbsnews.com ) divider line 87
    More: Followup, Shelter allowance, welfare, collects, Kennedy family, Seattle  
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9393 clicks; posted to Main » on 22 Sep 2012 at 7:24 AM (3 years ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-22 09:54:23 AM  

T.M.S.: Trance750: T.M.S.: Trance750: tedbundee: Lordserb: No Such Agency: With proper government management of industry and the economy

Got your problem right there.

Yeah, maybe we should let corporations regulate themselves. It's not like they have investors who want profits (or laws that demand it)

I don't think anybody has a problem with earning an honest buck. But $100,00 a year? That's a little much.

What exactly is "too much" about it? Too much how? Too much for whom?

You can live very comfortable on 35-40K a year.

How do you know I could do that?


I think he's assuming that in his perfectly-regulated society, expenses would be lower overall, and not vary as much with location.
 
2012-09-22 09:57:40 AM  

Summercat: Well, why do we have these boring cookie cutter contracts that require a full time person to work on? Why do these COBOL databases require so much work and? upkeep


You may as well ask why the sky is blue. My point is, there's a lot of necessary stuff that needs to be done, and that requires a good amount of training and education to do, that simply isn't very "sexy". That's not to say that there aren't people who derive a sense of satisfaction from doing it, but would they still do it if they had their druthers?
 
2012-09-22 10:04:09 AM  

ScottRiqui: Summercat: Well, why do we have these boring cookie cutter contracts that require a full time person to work on? Why do these COBOL databases require so much work and? upkeep

You may as well ask why the sky is blue. My point is, there's a lot of necessary stuff that needs to be done, and that requires a good amount of training and education to do, that simply isn't very "sexy". That's not to say that there aren't people who derive a sense of satisfaction from doing it, but would they still do it if they had their druthers?


That is evading the question.
 
2012-09-22 10:05:40 AM  

Summercat: Animatronik: wrs1864: GrizzlyPouch: How are you gonna motivate people to become brain surgeons when they could make the same wage delivering pizza?

Believe it or not, most people are motivated by things other than just money. For some people, money provides very little motivation, or even discouragement.

Even if brain surgeons made the same a pizza delivery jobs, people who were skilled enough to become a brain surgeon would continue to try for it because you can help people, it is a challenge and it is prestigious.

It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. I wouldn't go as far as the person you were responding to, I have no problems with people making more money, but people who want more money than they can reasonably use are the kind of people that shouldn't get that much money (or power).

This is exactly what communists in Russia said in 1920. Check it out.

Russia in the 1920s was a semi settled cuspal-industrial empire, with very little national infrastructure and a centuries long legacy of top down autocrwtic management.

Worker and farmer efficiency was one of the worst in Europe - partially by design of their enemies to keep the Rus' weak during the aforementioned centuries. It didn't work in the long run and just alienated them from the rest of the western world.

Marx would have been aghast at he communist revolution in Russia. Communism presumes a surplus - and an fairly large one at that. Russian industry, such as it was, barely broke even.

You cannot compare how communism was adopted and evolved in 1920s Russia to how it may play out in the us. Too many changes in background, means, methods, culture, history, and technology.


The communist pipe dream of everyone pitching in regardless of the pay is about as realistic as the libertarian pipe dream of industry regulating itself.
 
2012-09-22 10:06:16 AM  
Dear idiots.

That's not how you steal from the poor.

Sincerely,

Lehman Bros.
 
2012-09-22 10:06:33 AM  

ScottRiqui: T.M.S.: Trance750: T.M.S.: Trance750: tedbundee: Lordserb: No Such Agency: With proper government management of industry and the economy

Got your problem right there.

Yeah, maybe we should let corporations regulate themselves. It's not like they have investors who want profits (or laws that demand it)

I don't think anybody has a problem with earning an honest buck. But $100,00 a year? That's a little much.

What exactly is "too much" about it? Too much how? Too much for whom?

You can live very comfortable on 35-40K a year.

How do you know I could do that?

I think he's assuming that in his perfectly-regulated society, expenses would be lower overall, and not vary as much with location.


That's not what he said. What he said was relatively clear. And I am fascinated by how this could possibly work.

So, how does it work?
 
2012-09-22 10:11:17 AM  

Summercat: Well, why do we have these boring cookie cutter contracts that require a full time person to work on? Why do these COBOL databases require so much work and? upkeep


Because moving/parsing/storing/encrypting/decrypting data is not a simple thing to do and everything in this farking world is driven by data. I suppose you will use all of your experience gained while working at Starbucks to tell us how we can live without "boring" software.

And whtnis my phone keyboard being so depry right now

The derp was there before the keyboard entered the equation. I am damn glad that all of the posters in this thread are relegated to shaking their fists at the big mean world from their mom's basement rather than actually running things. You guys are hilarious.
 
2012-09-22 10:19:50 AM  

Summercat: ScottRiqui: Summercat: Well, why do we have these boring cookie cutter contracts that require a full time person to work on? Why do these COBOL databases require so much work and? upkeep

You may as well ask why the sky is blue. My point is, there's a lot of necessary stuff that needs to be done, and that requires a good amount of training and education to do, that simply isn't very "sexy". That's not to say that there aren't people who derive a sense of satisfaction from doing it, but would they still do it if they had their druthers?

That is evading the question.



I don't know how better to answer it. There are a lot of "non-sexy" things that, out of necessity, are complex enough to require full-time attention from a skilled, trained worker.

If a legacy business application could be re-written into a few thousands lines of 100% bug-free code that never needed to be maintained, then it would have been done. Likewise, the paperwork involved in setting up any corporation bigger than a "Mom and Pop" operation requires the work of a competent lawyer - you can't expect a typical business owner to grab a software package off the shelf and do it themselves. I'm sure dentists don't get excited about doing routine extractions and fillings, but they have to be done.

Unless i misunderstood your question, you're basically asking "why do we have to do anything that's not "cool/exciting/sexy"?
 
2012-09-22 10:20:03 AM  

umad: Summercat: Well, why do we have these boring cookie cutter contracts that require a full time person to work on? Why do these COBOL databases require so much work and? upkeep

Because moving/parsing/storing/encrypting/decrypting data is not a simple thing to do and everything in this farking world is driven by data. I suppose you will use all of your experience gained while working at Starbucks to tell us how we can live without "boring" software.

And whtnis my phone keyboard being so depry right now

The derp was there before the keyboard entered the equation. I am damn glad that all of the posters in this thread are relegated to shaking their fists at the big mean world from their mom's basement rather than actually running things. You guys are hilarious.


Hey now, if me asking questions gets you this riled up, I have to ask if y-

*looks at user name*

Oh indeed u mad.
 
2012-09-22 10:22:59 AM  
well to be fair most people who live on welfare are used to being in and out of prisons
 
2012-09-22 10:28:15 AM  
One look at her name and age tells me she came in the mail.
 
2012-09-22 10:28:59 AM  

Heist: I'm not at all surprised this clown is a chiropractor. Based on the gaudy home and the "exotic" name of his probably mail-order bride (partner), I'm guessing this guy couldn't hack med school and has spent his entire life overcompensating.


Came to say this, basically. Those Russian girls are hot, but crazy.
 
2012-09-22 10:36:02 AM  

Animatronik: wrs1864: GrizzlyPouch: How are you gonna motivate people to become brain surgeons when they could make the same wage delivering pizza?

Believe it or not, most people are motivated by things other than just money. For some people, money provides very little motivation, or even discouragement.

Even if brain surgeons made the same a pizza delivery jobs, people who were skilled enough to become a brain surgeon would continue to try for it because you can help people, it is a challenge and it is prestigious.

It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. I wouldn't go as far as the person you were responding to, I have no problems with people making more money, but people who want more money than they can reasonably use are the kind of people that shouldn't get that much money (or power).

This is exactly what communists in Russia said in 1920. Check it out.


Actually, Communism itself is an awesome idea. It's just been poorly carried out.
 
2012-09-22 10:37:24 AM  
ScottRiqui:

Unless i misunderstood your question, you're basically asking "why do we have to do anything that's not "cool/exciting/sexy"?

Nah, but I see where you got it from.

My question is, "Are we sure that the things we do that are not cool/exciting/sexy/self-motivating are things that we actually can do, or is there another approach that we're missing here."

And the followup, "If there are no other ways than the ways we're doing it, how can we change the task to make to be cool/exciting/sexy/self-motivating?"

I mean, I work as a graveyard security guard for a residential community gate. I'm not exactly in the most glamorous job in the world, but the post I"m at is shiattons better than others that are superficially similar that I've been assigned to. Even though the duties are exactly the same.
 
2012-09-22 10:38:24 AM  
big pig peaches:

The communist pipe dream of everyone pitching in regardless of the pay is about as realistic as the libertarian pipe dream of industry regulating itself.

Which is why I reject communism :3

*watches heads asplode*
 
2012-09-22 10:45:41 AM  
So these people are part of the 47% that we don't need to care about anyway?
 
2012-09-22 10:46:46 AM  

IBelieveYouHaveMyStapler: So these people are part of the 47% that we don't need to care about anyway?


first it was the 99%, then the 47%. what's next 420%??
 
2012-09-22 10:49:01 AM  

Summercat: ScottRiqui:

Unless i misunderstood your question, you're basically asking "why do we have to do anything that's not "cool/exciting/sexy"?

Nah, but I see where you got it from.

My question is, "Are we sure that the things we do that are not cool/exciting/sexy/self-motivating are things that we actually can do, or is there another approach that we're missing here."

And the followup, "If there are no other ways than the ways we're doing it, how can we change the task to make to be cool/exciting/sexy/self-motivating?"

I mean, I work as a graveyard security guard for a residential community gate. I'm not exactly in the most glamorous job in the world, but the post I"m at is shiattons better than others that are superficially similar that I've been assigned to. Even though the duties are exactly the same.


lol

Yeah we should definitely take your advice about software.
 
2012-09-22 10:49:27 AM  

No Such Agency: Now just do the same to everyone else in this country with more money than they could possibly need, and things might just start to get better. With proper government management of industry and the economy, nobody would need more than $60,000 a year in family income, and there'd be enough money freed up that everyone could have that.

/why yes, I am voting Democrat this fall


Maybe I read that wrong, but did you just advocate throwing anyone who makes over $60,000 a year in to jail? You didn't say 'jail people who defraud government welfare' you said 'jail anyone with more money than they need'. You obviously have no grasp of economy. You will need people who make over $60,000 to have enough captial to provide jobs for those who don't.
Unless you just want to make the county into a communist Soviet era type country where the country takes care of everyone and no one has personal responsibility. In that case, keep voting for 0bama. You deserve what's coming.
 
2012-09-22 10:53:25 AM  

umad: Summercat: ScottRiqui:

Unless i misunderstood your question, you're basically asking "why do we have to do anything that's not "cool/exciting/sexy"?

Nah, but I see where you got it from.

My question is, "Are we sure that the things we do that are not cool/exciting/sexy/self-motivating are things that we actually can do, or is there another approach that we're missing here."

And the followup, "If there are no other ways than the ways we're doing it, how can we change the task to make to be cool/exciting/sexy/self-motivating?"

I mean, I work as a graveyard security guard for a residential community gate. I'm not exactly in the most glamorous job in the world, but the post I"m at is shiattons better than others that are superficially similar that I've been assigned to. Even though the duties are exactly the same.

lol

Yeah we should definitely take your advice about software.


Yes because working one job totally precludes me from developing other, unrelated skills :v

/srsly y u mad tho?
 
2012-09-22 10:54:20 AM  

MythDragon: No Such Agency: Now just do the same to everyone else in this country with more money than they could possibly need, and things might just start to get better. With proper government management of industry and the economy, nobody would need more than $60,000 a year in family income, and there'd be enough money freed up that everyone could have that.

/why yes, I am voting Democrat this fall

Maybe I read that wrong, but did you just advocate throwing anyone who makes over $60,000 a year in to jail? You didn't say 'jail people who defraud government welfare' you said 'jail anyone with more money than they need'. You obviously have no grasp of economy. You will need people who make over $60,000 to have enough captial to provide jobs for those who don't.
Unless you just want to make the county into a communist Soviet era type country where the country takes care of everyone and no one has personal responsibility. In that case, keep voting for 0bama. You deserve what's coming.


Two trolls, both alike in derpity...
 
2012-09-22 11:04:21 AM  

big pig peaches: The communist pipe dream of everyone pitching in regardless of the pay is about as realistic as the libertarian pipe dream of industry regulating itself.


True... The only way you're ever going to have a functional communist society is if Star Trek style replicators are invented, coupled with unlimited free energy to power them... Then, all scarcity goes away, and the need for money disappears, and then everyone can just do what they enjoy doing, with no one needing to work a crappy job they don't enjoy just to survive... Maybe by the 24th century, we'll get there... I'm not sure I'd bet on the human race surviving that long, though...
 
2012-09-22 11:09:12 AM  

No Such Agency: Now just do the same to everyone else in this country with more money than they could possibly need, and things might just start to get better. With proper government management of industry and the economy, nobody would need more than $60,000 a year in family income, and there'd be enough money freed up that everyone could have that.

/why yes, I am voting Democrat this fall


But you would need to fairly reimburse all those selfless government employees that would be needed to enforce the $60,000 cap, right?

Oh, wait, you're trolling, aren't you?
 
2012-09-22 11:12:45 AM  

Summercat: Yes because working one job totally precludes me from developing other, unrelated skills :v

/srsly y u mad tho?


Summercat: That is evading the question.


I actually develop software. I like my job. I work with a lot of people who like theirs too. We make way more than the ridiculous numbers that have been tossed around in this thread. Even the fun stuff I work on has large parts that are a grind. It all requires long mentally draining hours that leave you dreaming about algorithms at night. If I could make the same money as my summer job from college I would go back in a second. 99% of the people I work with would be doing something different too. Stress isn't healthy. No amount of feelgoodery pulled from your ass will ever work as well to motivate people as cold hard cash.

So what's your big answer Mr. Security guard? Explain to us how skilled jobs are immune to the economic pressures of supply and demand. Blow us all away with your well developed insight. I expect nothing more than a hilarious crack at my handle. Trust me, you are the first person who was clever enough to dodge a question that way. I can see why you are trusted with such an important position, given your contributions to the thread. Don't quit your day (or night, I guess) job.
 
2012-09-22 11:14:33 AM  
at my summer job that is.
 
2012-09-22 11:24:08 AM  
Well it didn't take long for the usual retards to retard up the thread. If you don't like American, MOVE TO CHINA.

anyway...

Silverstein also must pay a criminal fine of $30,000, even though he's already paid $334,000 in restitution and civil penalties.

Shimonova was ordered to pay $261,000 in restitution.

Prosecutors: Globetrotting couple lived it up while collecting $135K in welfare



WAT
 
2012-09-22 11:27:25 AM  

umad: Summercat: Yes because working one job totally precludes me from developing other, unrelated skills :v

/srsly y u mad tho?

Summercat: That is evading the question.

I actually develop software. I like my job. I work with a lot of people who like theirs too. We make way more than the ridiculous numbers that have been tossed around in this thread. Even the fun stuff I work on has large parts that are a grind. It all requires long mentally draining hours that leave you dreaming about algorithms at night. If I could make the same money as my summer job from college I would go back in a second. 99% of the people I work with would be doing something different too. Stress isn't healthy. No amount of feelgoodery pulled from your ass will ever work as well to motivate people as cold hard cash.

So what's your big answer Mr. Security guard? Explain to us how skilled jobs are immune to the economic pressures of supply and demand. Blow us all away with your well developed insight. I expect nothing more than a hilarious crack at my handle. Trust me, you are the first person who was clever enough to dodge a question that way. I can see why you are trusted with such an important position, given your contributions to the thread. Don't quit your day (or night, I guess) job.


I never said I had an answer. I said I had a question. I don't pretend to have an answer that I lack, but that doesn't stop me from attempting to seek one, or asking if the things we do actually need doing - or doing in the specific manner in which they're done.

But go ahead and keep thinking I'm being smug with my answers, when really all I bring is the question.
 
2012-09-22 11:31:31 AM  

big pig peaches: Summercat: Animatronik: wrs1864: GrizzlyPouch: How are you gonna motivate people to become brain surgeons when they could make the same wage delivering pizza?

Believe it or not, most people are motivated by things other than just money. For some people, money provides very little motivation, or even discouragement.

Even if brain surgeons made the same a pizza delivery jobs, people who were skilled enough to become a brain surgeon would continue to try for it because you can help people, it is a challenge and it is prestigious.

It is the love of money that is the root of all evil. I wouldn't go as far as the person you were responding to, I have no problems with people making more money, but people who want more money than they can reasonably use are the kind of people that shouldn't get that much money (or power).

This is exactly what communists in Russia said in 1920. Check it out.

Russia in the 1920s was a semi settled cuspal-industrial empire, with very little national infrastructure and a centuries long legacy of top down autocrwtic management.

Worker and farmer efficiency was one of the worst in Europe - partially by design of their enemies to keep the Rus' weak during the aforementioned centuries. It didn't work in the long run and just alienated them from the rest of the western world.

Marx would have been aghast at he communist revolution in Russia. Communism presumes a surplus - and an fairly large one at that. Russian industry, such as it was, barely broke even.

You cannot compare how communism was adopted and evolved in 1920s Russia to how it may play out in the us. Too many changes in background, means, methods, culture, history, and technology.

The communist pipe dream of everyone pitching in regardless of the pay is about as realistic as the libertarian pipe dream of industry regulating itself.


Yes but it is THEIR ideal (they think, if only they knew where that would put them) and thus it is more realistic.
 
2012-09-22 11:32:13 AM  

RobSeace: big pig peaches: The communist pipe dream of everyone pitching in regardless of the pay is about as realistic as the libertarian pipe dream of industry regulating itself.

True... The only way you're ever going to have a functional communist society is if Star Trek style replicators are invented, coupled with unlimited free energy to power them... Then, all scarcity goes away, and the need for money disappears, and then everyone can just do what they enjoy doing, with no one needing to work a crappy job they don't enjoy just to survive... Maybe by the 24th century, we'll get there... I'm not sure I'd bet on the human race surviving that long, though...


Really? Have you taken a look around lately? Look what cheap disgusting food that is readily available has done.now imagine free food of whatever type you desire right at your finger tips would do. You would have to restrict access at some point which would lead to outraged mobs. Slow moving wheezie mobs, but civil unrest nonetheless.
 
2012-09-22 12:45:40 PM  

Summercat: But go ahead and keep thinking I'm being smug with my answers, when really all I bring is the question.


And I answered it twice. I'm asking you smart guy, what is your proposed solution to get brain surgeons and programmers to go to work when we could make just as much farking around all night playing angry birds while providing "security" to a gated community? Now go for strike three with the question dodge and make a crack at my name.
 
2012-09-22 12:50:13 PM  

umad: Summercat: But go ahead and keep thinking I'm being smug with my answers, when really all I bring is the question.

And I answered it twice. I'm asking you smart guy, what is your proposed solution to get brain surgeons and programmers to go to work when we could make just as much farking around all night playing angry birds while providing "security" to a gated community? Now go for strike three with the question dodge and make a crack at my name.


Yup, u mad.

/brb removing hook from my mouth
 
2012-09-22 12:52:24 PM  

Summercat: Yup, u mad.

/brb removing hook from my mouth


Do you even have a GED?
 
2012-09-22 01:38:36 PM  

GrizzlyPouch: No Such Agency: Now just do the same to everyone else in this country with more money than they could possibly need, and things might just start to get better. With proper government management of industry and the economy, nobody would need more than $60,000 a year in family income, and there'd be enough money freed up that everyone could have that.

/why yes, I am voting Democrat this fall

I'm guessing you're trolling but here's the problem with your utopia

How are you gonna motivate people to become brain surgeons when they could make the same wage delivering pizza?


Because if the costs for medical school were non existent, more people would be able to follow and practice their passions. Not everyone wants to do the bare minimum. Believe it or not, there are actually good people in this world who WANT to help others with their expertise and intelligence.

If there were truly equal opportunities afforded to anyone with the ambition and smarts, then this world would be a better place.

The saddest thing in life is wasted talent.
 
2012-09-22 01:51:56 PM  

TheHappyCanadian: well to be fair most people who live on welfare are used to being in and out of prisons


really dude? Really?

Because complete ignorance is so much more becoming, right?
 
2012-09-22 01:56:31 PM  
assholes want to talk about "the nerve" these "welfare kings and queens" have for so boldly spending their food stamps buying *gasp* organic food at Whole Foods. Because you know, if you receive food stamps you shouldn't be allowed to purchase healthy foods - despite being the most at risk for a poor diet lacking in nutritional substance.

Meanwhile, somewhere in a 1.2 million dollar estate... I'm sure these degenerates were scoffing at the people that actually NEEDED the help they were stealing.

Just because a person or family is on welfare does NOT mean they are the dregs of society or are even happy to have to get that kind of help - but you do what you have must to SURVIVE.

Likewise, just because a person or family is wealthy, does NOT mean that they are better or smarter people than those that make less.

This is a perfect example of greed in its most crude form.
 
2012-09-22 04:49:34 PM  

twiztedjustin: Well it didn't take long for the usual retards to retard up the thread. If you don't like American, MOVE TO CHINA.


Actually, I'm in China this very second. The pizza my friend ordered last night was $60 and not even delivered. We had to go pick it up in his Ferarri.

This is a friggin' weird economy they gots here.
 
2012-09-22 05:36:37 PM  

Smidge204: Lordserb: It's a fine line, sure, but the last thing the economy needs right now is a more regulated industry.

Name a specific industry regulation that you think is stifling.
=Smidge=


I looked around for an answer to this question but, since none was posted, I can only assume that it's taking Lordserb a really long time because there are just so many problems that would come about from any industry being regulated.

Ha ha. Not really. Clearly, Lordserb is a pants-wetting, teabagging crybaby who will be, god willing, put on public display and ridiculed in puddles and piles of his own filth, should ever his battle cry of "Class warfare!!1!" come to fruition.

If anyone here knows Lordserb or anyone like him, please do the country a favor and set him on fire.
 
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