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(YouTube)   Wanna watch Koppel c*ckpunch Fox News and MSNBC? Oh, and wait for it   (youtube.com) divider line 296
    More: Hero, Ted Koppel, MSNBC, hard news, Media Matters for America, o'reilly  
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15488 clicks; posted to Politics » on 22 Sep 2012 at 1:43 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-22 10:55:29 AM
i17.photobucket.com

How precious, he still thinks he is doing something noble.

The face that launched a thousand c*ckpunches.
 
2012-09-22 11:03:01 AM

lantawa: theknuckler_33: lantawa: Excellent mythical insertion. Poser. Typical of what Koppel was delineating. Bad form, dude.....

Why did you kill that woman in 1990?

Mythical insertion? Really?

Link

Yes. Really. If you don't know the difference between a plausible, well-considered and doument-supported theory and an outright lying (though sorta humorous) troll, then you need to go back to Fark nursery school to learn your Fark ABCs.


Writing a book that collects 'evidence' to support a straw man isn't a theory. It is farking stupid. It was nothing more than a tired rehashing of all the right-wing nonsense from 2008 and only emphasizes that the right-wing has NOTHING to run on 4 years later.
 
2012-09-22 11:03:33 AM

animal color: If you have to go back to the Spanish-American War to find your example, you might want to look for another one.


The point was that Fox-style journalism isn't breaking some eternal news ethic, or going against some founding ideal of America. It's poisonous bullshart, but it isn't original.
- Hearst wasn't that long ago for some people.
 
2012-09-22 11:16:20 AM

Animatronik: /ppl get angry at politicians who can't lead in a crisis, and if the repubs take over Congress and fail to lead again, anger will be directed at them.


IF they fail?
 
2012-09-22 11:17:07 AM

Vodka Zombie: I genuinely feel bad for anyone with even one ounce of journalistic integrity who goes on Fox News. It's got to be a very strange world, and all they do is hump their ratings as though that gives them some sort of legitimacy.

Fiction sells very well, and Fox makes a killing off of telling people what they want to hear as opposed to what they should or need to hear.

"Hard news" my ass, Billy. There is no such thing in an echo chamber.


I suspect the Fox News room is run "bullpen" style a lot like that old gossip show TMZ.

"Obama farted in Church on Sunday."

"Lets run with as the top story. Get reactions from this fellow parishioners. If they are pro-Obama, distort their faces and edit the clip to make them appear to be idiots."

"On it, boss."
 
2012-09-22 11:17:21 AM
No surprise randomjsa goes far, far out of his way to defend the man who advocated George Tiller's death, and the company that pays him to advocate it.
 
2012-09-22 11:19:14 AM

theknuckler_33: lantawa: theknuckler_33: lantawa: Excellent mythical insertion. Poser. Typical of what Koppel was delineating. Bad form, dude.....

Why did you kill that woman in 1990?

Mythical insertion? Really?

Link

Yes. Really. If you don't know the difference between a plausible, well-considered and doument-supported theory and an outright lying (though sorta humorous) troll, then you need to go back to Fark nursery school to learn your Fark ABCs.

Writing a book that collects 'evidence' to support a straw man isn't a theory. It is farking stupid. It was nothing more than a tired rehashing of all the right-wing nonsense from 2008 and only emphasizes that the right-wing has NOTHING to run on 4 years later.


No. You're stupid for dismissing it outright and for incorrectly believing that there are no other issues (extremely important issues, BTW, that are indicative of gross deficiencies in Obama's performance) at play in this election.
 
2012-09-22 11:27:46 AM

0Icky0: animal color: If you have to go back to the Spanish-American War to find your example, you might want to look for another one.

The point was that Fox-style journalism isn't breaking some eternal news ethic, or going against some founding ideal of America. It's poisonous bullshart, but it isn't original.
- Hearst wasn't that long ago for some people.



Methuselah?
 
2012-09-22 11:31:21 AM

Animatronik: In an alternate reality, laser beams shotvout of Ted Koppel's eyes and sliced and diced every journalist at Fox News.


In actual reality, Ted Koppel is an old man who is blind to the apotheosis of the welfare state that he has promoted his entire life. Blind to the fact that people have nasty disagreements over politics because the differences between the two political parties are increasingly extreme. With one party, the Democrats, utterly refusing to acknowledge the impending fiscal crisis that must be addressed now through spending cuts.

/ppl get angry at politicians who can't lead in a crisis, and if the repubs take over Congress and fail to lead again, anger will be directed at them.



Here's the thing, Junior: If you accomplish one-tenth as much as Ted Koppel did in his distinguished career, you can consider yourself a success.

Something tells me -- perhaps your pretentious and practically illiterate observations on a man you've never met -- that you'll have to find another label.
 
2012-09-22 11:36:04 AM

buntz: Long thread, but here's my question, and I'm being serious, if naive:

When did opinions at ALL have anything to do with reporting the news?

Shouldn't the news be reporting on what happened?

There was a fire today.
The president spoke in Cleveland today.
A little boy got lost today.

I keep hearing about journalistic integrity but shouldn't anchors just be "reporting" the news?


Impossible, unless said anchor only provides a transcript of the president's speech. Otherwise, the anchor (or a producer) must decide which parts to report, which parts to leave out, which part of the story to lead with, etc. That means exercising judgment. And that cannot be done impartially.

The whole notion of "impartial" reporting of news is a fallacy, a pipe-dream. Just deciding which stories to cover, or even which words to use, inserts the reporter's judgment into the story.
 
2012-09-22 11:49:20 AM
Tim Russert had integrity and strength in reporting the news.
Russert made the republicans and democrats look like idiots with their own words, instead of this word jumble back and forth that is played on Sunday news shows today.

assets.nydailynews.com
 
2012-09-22 11:51:24 AM
When is this "hard news" from 9am to 5pm that Bill talks about going to start?

Bill's "you can't stay on top with a dishonest product; it's impossible" (or to that effect; I'm not his transcriber) is a statement that is false about Fox's existence.
 
2012-09-22 11:58:36 AM
O'Reilly: "We actually do hard news here..."

*rolls eyes*

Bill, Fox News does "hard news" like Vince McMahon does "wrestling."
 
2012-09-22 12:04:22 PM

lantawa: theknuckler_33: lantawa: theknuckler_33: lantawa: Excellent mythical insertion. Poser. Typical of what Koppel was delineating. Bad form, dude.....

Why did you kill that woman in 1990?

Mythical insertion? Really?

Link

Yes. Really. If you don't know the difference between a plausible, well-considered and doument-supported theory and an outright lying (though sorta humorous) troll, then you need to go back to Fark nursery school to learn your Fark ABCs.

Writing a book that collects 'evidence' to support a straw man isn't a theory. It is farking stupid. It was nothing more than a tired rehashing of all the right-wing nonsense from 2008 and only emphasizes that the right-wing has NOTHING to run on 4 years later.

No. You're stupid for dismissing it outright and for incorrectly believing that there are no other issues (extremely important issues, BTW, that are indicative of gross deficiencies in Obama's performance) at play in this election.


Perhaps that is what they should have made a film about then, instead of 90 minutes of Ayers, Wright, anti-colonialism, rejection of 'american exceptionalism' and every other putrid bit of rhetorical nonsense that we heard nonstop 4 years ago. Or perhaps a film about Romney's campaign and his platform and policy positions and how they differ from Obama and why they are better. Of course that's impossible since Romney's policies are either exactly the same as Obama's or, when they are different, completely undefined. But no, instead you get pseudo-psychological 'theories' about how Obama's absentee father somehow was a great influence on the strawman that Obama hates America.
 
2012-09-22 12:05:40 PM

LobsterSausage: Ted Koppel is that rare breed of journalist that still believes in reporting facts. Ed Murrow would be proud.


This.

PreMortem: "But I still think I'm dong something noble"

That's called a delusion Bill.


Also: Osama Bin Laden thought the same thing right before a bullet went through his head.

cman: Hyperpartisanship sucks.

It does.


That. If Buckley were still around, he'd look at Republicans as a whole and say "this isn't 'conservatism', it's facism...and I don't support facism."
 
2012-09-22 12:07:33 PM

YELLOL: And Koppel actually believes he isn't pushing a left wing agenda.


Hey, newsflash for ya: Reality has a liberal bias.

Sucks to be you and about 40 million other delusional people.
 
2012-09-22 12:07:46 PM
What? No Ted Koppel animated .gif kiss yet?



/Fark's slippin'
 
2012-09-22 12:13:10 PM

OnlyM3: X-boxershorts

Harry_Seldon: YELLOL: And Koppel actually believes he isn't pushing a left wing agenda.

This is why you fail. Journalism's function is a check on power.
Feel free to post a link to the last hard interview the left did with Obama.


Why...Univision's talk with him this past week.

/Of course, you'd have to know Español to understand
//Unless you're one of the TP types who hate any language other than "'merican"
 
2012-09-22 12:13:57 PM

CSM101: Ted Koppel is a waffle.

/obscure?


No. Took long enough to show up here, though :)
 
2012-09-22 12:14:17 PM

Dakai: I farking love it! I so Miss Koppel


NBC News should just let him anchor Election Night coverage. He'd have the perfect demeanor for it.
 
2012-09-22 12:15:59 PM

logieal: ".. and once upon a time you and I actually thought journalism was a calling"

When I was younger, in high school and such, I thought I wanted to go into the news industry. Even went to college for it and spent several years studying and working hard to try and attain this goal.

However, once I got a real look at how the news industry was changing around the turn of the century, I realized that it wasn't about gathering facts and reporting on things that were actually newsworthy, rather than pushing some sort of agenda or message or simply ratings. It was a complete rat race. Whoever had the better story or the better package got the better block in the news.

If you got a story in the A or even the top of the B block, you were golden. But if your story didn't mesh with whatever the producer or the owners of the station wanted, your story was lucky to make the kicker. It didn't matter if you had footage of someone punting a puppy off of an overpass, if somehow your story pissed of the producer or ND, your ass was grass and would end up doing pet stories.

I grew up listening to Koppel, Brokaw, and the like for national news. They reported on things that mattered. I'm not saying that there weren't news scandals such as faked reports of vehicles exploding, which were actually unsafe, but at least they would come back and admit they farked up.

I have a lot of friends still in the news industry who don't mind running the rat race, but I know that they aren't happy, but they didn't have another field to go to like I did.


Amen.

\you should try giving them nice new HD toys, and watching them make 1080i crap with it
\\it really gives you Job Satisfaction, let me tell you
 
2012-09-22 12:17:27 PM

buntz: Long thread, but here's my question, and I'm being serious, if naive:

When did opinions at ALL have anything to do with reporting the news?

Shouldn't the news be reporting on what happened?

There was a fire today.
The president spoke in Cleveland today.
A little boy got lost today.

I keep hearing about journalistic integrity but shouldn't anchors just be "reporting" the news?


When the big corporations started thinking about "ratings" they dropped that whole "journalistic integrity" down the nearest trash chute they can find. This is why John Stewart is the most respected man in news right now.

/and it's sad
 
2012-09-22 12:18:09 PM

thenewmissus: randomjsa: I knew I could count on "ratings don't matter" people to show up. That's funny, this is the website that I've seen bragging more than once about the ratings of the Daily show when compared to Fox news. So I'm guessing that ratings only "don't matter" when you have to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges.

Beyond that I expected, and got, the usual 'Well Fox is bad and biased... but lalalala I can't hear you when you suggest any left wing outlets are biased'. Fox isn't as biased as MSNBC, and you know it. It might be as biased as CNN, but to deny that CNN/MSNBC/CBS/NBC/ABC shill for the left while whining about Fox shilling for the right makes you look like a fool.

By the way, going on about Freepers, or American Thinker, or whatever while swallowing whole sale the garbage from kos, TPM, or Think Progress makes you look even more foolish.

This^ is how you know he's a Fox News supporter. Fox viewers honestly believe that their news source is the only credible and legitimate news source around. When you are that brainwashed, there is no going back without professional treatment. It feels like watching your brother or sister follow a Jim Jones cult and not being able to do anything about it.


The irony being, they keep saying that *we're* the ones "drinking the Kool-Aid."
 
2012-09-22 12:20:05 PM

theknuckler_33: lantawa: theknuckler_33: lantawa: theknuckler_33: lantawa: Excellent mythical insertion. Poser. Typical of what Koppel was delineating. Bad form, dude.....

Why did you kill that woman in 1990?

Mythical insertion? Really?

Link

Yes. Really. If you don't know the difference between a plausible, well-considered and doument-supported theory and an outright lying (though sorta humorous) troll, then you need to go back to Fark nursery school to learn your Fark ABCs.

Writing a book that collects 'evidence' to support a straw man isn't a theory. It is farking stupid. It was nothing more than a tired rehashing of all the right-wing nonsense from 2008 and only emphasizes that the right-wing has NOTHING to run on 4 years later.

No. You're stupid for dismissing it outright and for incorrectly believing that there are no other issues (extremely important issues, BTW, that are indicative of gross deficiencies in Obama's performance) at play in this election.

Perhaps that is what they should have made a film about then, instead of 90 minutes of Ayers, Wright, anti-colonialism, rejection of 'american exceptionalism' and every other putrid bit of rhetorical nonsense that we heard nonstop 4 years ago. Or perhaps a film about Romney's campaign and his platform and policy positions and how they differ from Obama and why they are better. Of course that's impossible since Romney's policies are either exactly the same as Obama's or, when they are different, completely undefined. But no, instead you get pseudo-psychological 'theories' about how Obama's absentee father somehow was a great influence on the strawman that Obama hates America.


You know, Danny that this will go on...forever..and ever....and ever.....

i466.photobucket.com
 
2012-09-22 12:20:06 PM

randomjsa: I knew I could count on "ratings don't matter" people to show up. That's funny, this is the website that I've seen bragging more than once about the ratings of the Daily show when compared to Fox news. So I'm guessing that ratings only "don't matter" when you have to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges.

Beyond that I expected, and got, the usual 'Well Fox is bad and biased... but lalalala I can't hear you when you suggest any left wing outlets are biased'. Fox isn't as biased as MSNBC, and you know it. It might be as biased as CNN, but to deny that CNN/MSNBC/CBS/NBC/ABC shill for the left while whining about Fox shilling for the right makes you look like a fool.

By the way, going on about Freepers, or American Thinker, or whatever while swallowing whole sale the garbage from kos, TPM, or Think Progress makes you look even more foolish.


If all you hear on most of the channels is what the right wants you to hear, so you decide *as a service* to also tell people whet the *left* wants you to hear (or God help you, what the actual *truth* may be) then you're automatically a leftist mouthpiece?

What a sad world you have created for yourself.
 
2012-09-22 12:20:19 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: thenewmissus: randomjsa: I knew I could count on "ratings don't matter" people to show up. That's funny, this is the website that I've seen bragging more than once about the ratings of the Daily show when compared to Fox news. So I'm guessing that ratings only "don't matter" when you have to compare apples to apples, and not apples to oranges.

Beyond that I expected, and got, the usual 'Well Fox is bad and biased... but lalalala I can't hear you when you suggest any left wing outlets are biased'. Fox isn't as biased as MSNBC, and you know it. It might be as biased as CNN, but to deny that CNN/MSNBC/CBS/NBC/ABC shill for the left while whining about Fox shilling for the right makes you look like a fool.

By the way, going on about Freepers, or American Thinker, or whatever while swallowing whole sale the garbage from kos, TPM, or Think Progress makes you look even more foolish.

This^ is how you know he's a Fox News supporter. Fox viewers honestly believe that their news source is the only credible and legitimate news source around. When you are that brainwashed, there is no going back without professional treatment. It feels like watching your brother or sister follow a Jim Jones cult and not being able to do anything about it.

The irony being, they keep saying that *we're* the ones "drinking the Kool-Aid."


More like 'projection', but 'irony' works too. :)
 
2012-09-22 12:26:50 PM

my lip balm addiction: Just out of curiousity, WTF is a Fire Bagger.


I had to look it up, but it's apparently a term of derision (based on the left-leaning and sometimes hypercritical blog Firedoglake) for nominal left-wingers who feel Obama isn't doing enough to bring forth the Liberal Rapture. It's basically the left-wing equivalent of right-wingers who can't or won't compromise or don't understand or appreciate the complexities of democracy on a large scale. And yes, they totally deserve each other.
 
2012-09-22 12:30:49 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: my lip balm addiction: Just out of curiousity, WTF is a Fire Bagger.

I had to look it up, but it's apparently a term of derision (based on the left-leaning and sometimes hypercritical blog Firedoglake) for nominal left-wingers who feel Obama isn't doing enough to bring forth the Liberal Rapture. It's basically the left-wing equivalent of right-wingers who can't or won't compromise or don't understand or appreciate the complexities of democracy on a large scale. And yes, they totally deserve each other.


You know, THIS!

/Seriously
//Proudly call myself a Progressive Liberal
///But some of my brethren must've drunk the TP Flavor-Aid
////Because they think of real dumb shiat
 
2012-09-22 12:30:59 PM

Emposter: "But I still think I'm dong something noble"

O'Reilly is greedy and evil, but I don't believe he's an idiot. I believe that he consciously knows the facts and truths of the subjects he reports and comments on, which means he is fully aware that what virtually all of what he says on the air is either direct lies or intentionally misleading. He knows damn well he's not doing anything noble, but he also knows damn well that he has to SAY what he is doing is noble in order to preserve his viewership.


This is the essential problem with may of the personalities on Fox News (and FBN). Take Stuart Varney. He used to be a hell of an business/economy reporter. I threw up in my mout a little the other day when he came on and started spewing the partisan pablum that is the Fox (Republican) Party line. What it really shows me is that most of the "journalists" are really just whores up for the highest bidder. They will roll over and suck the d*ck of whoever it takes if it means more money. Sickening. Fox news is the worst, but not the only, offender. This is why I still watch PBS news hour, and watch CBS this morning with Charlie Rose. 60 minutes rocks for the most part. Anderson Cooper has his moments.
 
2012-09-22 12:52:17 PM

Sylvia_Bandersnatch: Emposter: "But I still think I'm dong something noble"

O'Reilly is greedy and evil, but I don't believe he's an idiot. I believe that he consciously knows the facts and truths of the subjects he reports and comments on, which means he is fully aware that what virtually all of what he says on the air is either direct lies or intentionally misleading. He knows damn well he's not doing anything noble, but he also knows damn well that he has to SAY what he is doing is noble in order to preserve his viewership.

O'Reilly's a special case, so I don't think your very reasoned case applies to him. Bill's a victim of child abuse, and his adult and professional life is a sad and sometimes disturbing display of a man trying daily to exorcise demons that will not stop haunting him. It's got almost nothing to do with politics.


Occasionally I've watched his show, and it in no way resembles what ppl like you in this thread are saying.

This long-winded character assassination of any public govt or media figure that isnt left wing just makes your side look like whiny little biatches flinging poo. Im sorry but that is an accurate description of what you guys look like when you post stuff like this.
Q.E.D.
 
2012-09-22 12:54:55 PM

RyansPrivates: Emposter: "But I still think I'm dong something noble"

O'Reilly is greedy and evil, but I don't believe he's an idiot. I believe that he consciously knows the facts and truths of the subjects he reports and comments on, which means he is fully aware that what virtually all of what he says on the air is either direct lies or intentionally misleading. He knows damn well he's not doing anything noble, but he also knows damn well that he has to SAY what he is doing is noble in order to preserve his viewership.

This is the essential problem with may of the personalities on Fox News (and FBN). Take Stuart Varney. He used to be a hell of an business/economy reporter. I threw up in my mout a little the other day when he came on and started spewing the partisan pablum that is the Fox (Republican) Party line. What it really shows me is that most of the "journalists" are really just whores up for the highest bidder. They will roll over and suck the d*ck of whoever it takes if it means more money. Sickening. Fox news is the worst, but not the only, offender. This is why I still watch PBS news hour, and watch CBS this morning with Charlie Rose. 60 minutes rocks for the most part. Anderson Cooper has his moments.


You need to consider the possibility that your left-wing brethren have descended into intellectually bankrupt insanity, and that is why people you used to respect are railing against them.
 
2012-09-22 12:59:24 PM
Any news orginisation with Maddow on

Hobodeluxe: I think it's great that MSNBC is now pulling in ratings equal to or exceeding Fox now. Maddow is giving Hannity a run for his money. Sometimes beating his ratings.


That's great to hear. Her's is the one show I watch on a regular basis. Any organisation with her around bears no resemblance to Fox news.
 
2012-09-22 01:05:13 PM

Animatronik: RyansPrivates: Emposter: "But I still think I'm dong something noble"

O'Reilly is greedy and evil, but I don't believe he's an idiot. I believe that he consciously knows the facts and truths of the subjects he reports and comments on, which means he is fully aware that what virtually all of what he says on the air is either direct lies or intentionally misleading. He knows damn well he's not doing anything noble, but he also knows damn well that he has to SAY what he is doing is noble in order to preserve his viewership.

This is the essential problem with may of the personalities on Fox News (and FBN). Take Stuart Varney. He used to be a hell of an business/economy reporter. I threw up in my mout a little the other day when he came on and started spewing the partisan pablum that is the Fox (Republican) Party line. What it really shows me is that most of the "journalists" are really just whores up for the highest bidder. They will roll over and suck the d*ck of whoever it takes if it means more money. Sickening. Fox news is the worst, but not the only, offender. This is why I still watch PBS news hour, and watch CBS this morning with Charlie Rose. 60 minutes rocks for the most part. Anderson Cooper has his moments.

You need to consider the possibility that your left-wing brethren have descended into intellectually bankrupt insanity, and that is why people you used to respect are railing against them.


Animatro, attacking someone isn't going to make your views that much more credible

In my immediate family we have very polarizing views on the current political attitudes.
In the south we say "In polite company never discus politics or religion"
Listening to someone tell you why your views on politics is wrong is like:

Being preached to and being told why your belief and faith in God is not correct.
It's that personnel and sacred
 
2012-09-22 01:49:41 PM

CSM101: Ted Koppel is a waffle.

/obscure?


Go back to bed, Opus. The anxiety closet is waiting for you.
 
2012-09-22 02:10:42 PM

mr.Curmudgeon: What? No Ted Koppel animated .gif kiss yet?



/Fark's slippin'


Thy will be done. 
 
2012-09-22 02:12:09 PM

Superjoe: Hey Bill, if you are going to let someone else have the last word you have to SHUT THE FARK UP.


I was hoping that Ted would so enrage Bill (by talking calmly and rationally) that BillO would have cut Koppel's mike.
 
2012-09-22 02:13:07 PM

Rwa2play: That. If Buckley were still around, he'd look at Republicans as a whole and say "this isn't 'conservatism', it's facism...and I don't support facism."


Oh please, knock off the bald-faced Buckley worship. He was as much a frothing right-winger as any noteworthy Fox News personality, and brought about as much to the national political dialogue. He was instrumental in running the Rockefeller Republicans out of the GOP, kicking off the hard rightward slide over the next half-century, was a major proponent of the Southern strategy, and the forebear of the ridiculous politics of our day.

The only vestiges or appearance of "moderation" or "reason" the man had were attached to being a man of his times, in which news was still news and the media actually served as a check on politicians opposed to corporate campaign mouthpieces. Had he been born fifty years later, he'd be right there with Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly.
 
2012-09-22 02:22:13 PM

impaler: impaler: If I was were born 5 year earlier,

Case in point. If the "in demand" talent was were mastery of the English language, I would be on skid row.


True that! 
/Check out the subjunctive case sometime when you are bored. If you were born a generation ago, it might feel more natural to you.
 
2012-09-22 02:22:22 PM

that bosnian sniper: Rwa2play: That. If Buckley were still around, he'd look at Republicans as a whole and say "this isn't 'conservatism', it's facism...and I don't support facism."

Oh please, knock off the bald-faced Buckley worship. He was as much a frothing right-winger as any noteworthy Fox News personality, and brought about as much to the national political dialogue. He was instrumental in running the Rockefeller Republicans out of the GOP, kicking off the hard rightward slide over the next half-century, was a major proponent of the Southern strategy, and the forebear of the ridiculous politics of our day.

The only vestiges or appearance of "moderation" or "reason" the man had were attached to being a man of his times, in which news was still news and the media actually served as a check on politicians opposed to corporate campaign mouthpieces. Had he been born fifty years later, he'd be right there with Hannity, Limbaugh, and O'Reilly.


Here's the thing: You could've made a similar argument about Goldwater in '64. By the 90s even he was like "WTF?!" with Republicans.
 
2012-09-22 02:27:33 PM

MayoSlather: I've seen Bill pull the ole appeal to the masses fallacy before....if millions watch us then how can it be wrong? Which is intellectually dishonest on his part. He knows that's not a valid point, but he also knows his audience is willing to bite on it, so he runs with it.



What was great was that Koppel was waiting for that argument and BillO - true to form - walked right into Koppel's trap.
 
2012-09-22 02:29:13 PM

my lip balm addiction: johne3819: Fox news is best news

Since that is the 1st comment I have ever seen from you and it is about as stupid as stupid gets, I am getting rid of you so I never have to read any of your bullshiat ever again.


You're not that new here. Did you really not get the joke?
 
2012-09-22 02:32:41 PM

randomjsa: That's funny, this is the website that I've seen bragging more than once about the ratings of the Daily show when compared to Fox news.



It's always funny when you make shiat up, isn't it?
 
2012-09-22 02:32:44 PM

my lip balm addiction: Just out of curiousity, WTF is a Fire Bagger.


Professional left - i.e. Firedoglake
 
2012-09-22 02:36:41 PM

Animatronik: whiny little biatches flinging poo.



Why yes, that does accuracy describe you conservative fark trolls

/what happened? The new wave of trolls is just downright pathetic. I guess everyone else has quit their pr firms after watching the colossal failure that is the GOP melt down on itself.
 
2012-09-22 02:36:58 PM

tudorgurl: Hanky: Remember when there was a concerted effort to separate editorial and news, that it was ostensibly the most important aspect of journalism to avoid an agenda setting function? Fark those were good times

That is what I stress to my journalism and English students - the difference between opinion and fact. They do not get taught the difference at all, even though it's buried in our standards. As a matter of fact, we're about to get into a discussion/paper about privacy laws and how they have changed over the last thirty years. We've just finished reading Bradbury's "The Pedestrian" and we're going to apply journalistic principles and debate the topic. They're going to research the Patriot Act, the NDAA, the COPA, and other privacy laws that have been passed in the last few decades. Then, they will debate the pros and cons of each using the Joe Friday technique - they must use facts from unbiased sources to support their opinions.

It's gonna be awesome!


My father took it further than that when he was an earth science professor, offering an object lesson in how even undisputed and objective facts can disagree, depending on sources. He'd assign a simple question, such as finding out the last time a certain volcano erupted, and require *three* different sources. (This is the same minimum standard as used by the most respected journalists.) What they'd find is that equally reliable sources would often disagree, depending on what a given source knew and when. The same is true with most other facts: What's objectively factual can vary with perspective of time, distance, and other factors. The challenge for information consumers, then, is to be smart about evaluating sources -- and, I'd forcefully argue, to never accept a single source, no matter how reliable, as the last and final word on anything. The BBC makes mistakes, too.
 
2012-09-22 02:38:30 PM

Animatronik: the impending fiscal crisis that must be addressed now through spending cuts.


What exactly would you cut?
 
2012-09-22 02:38:45 PM

cman: Hyperpartisanship sucks.

It does.


So, what? That's reality. That's our society. Do something to resolve it if you can be bothered.
 
2012-09-22 02:42:55 PM

Graffito: Animatronik: the impending fiscal crisis that must be addressed now through spending cuts.

What exactly would you cut?



NPR, Planned Parenthood, Welfare, Food Stamps.

Problem... SOLVED
 
2012-09-22 02:54:00 PM

intelligent comment below: NPR, Planned Parenthood, Welfare, Food Stamps.

Problem... SOLVED


Notsureifserious
 
2012-09-22 02:54:31 PM

Hamilstan: buntz: Long thread, but here's my question, and I'm being serious, if naive:

When did opinions at ALL have anything to do with reporting the news?

Shouldn't the news be reporting on what happened?

There was a fire today.
The president spoke in Cleveland today.
A little boy got lost today.

I keep hearing about journalistic integrity but shouldn't anchors just be "reporting" the news?

Impossible, unless said anchor only provides a transcript of the president's speech. Otherwise, the anchor (or a producer) must decide which parts to report, which parts to leave out, which part of the story to lead with, etc. That means exercising judgment. And that cannot be done impartially.

The whole notion of "impartial" reporting of news is a fallacy, a pipe-dream. Just deciding which stories to cover, or even which words to use, inserts the reporter's judgment into the story.


Just to pile on...what buntz describes isn't journalism, it's stenography. It is absolutely and historically the journalist's job to provide context for what's happening (the "why" part of the job). That can be done with varying degrees of bias, naturally, and a good journalist keeps their biases under control as best they can.

Think of it this way: the raw news (what, where, when, who, how) is merely data. The "why" part, or basic context and analysis, turns the data into information. That's what the press is supposed to supply. It's up to the viewer to integrate that info into their world concept so that they can make informed decisions, but the viewer can't do their part if they're only given raw materials. It would be silly to ask them to, just like it would be silly if I bought a couch and the furniture store shipped me 200 pounds of wood, metal, cloth, and dacron.
 
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