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(ABC Local)   Colorado prosecutors give up efforts to get Holmes' notebook, will never find out how The Sign of the Four ends. (with a picture of Holmes after a dose of seven-per-cent solution)   (abclocal.go.com) divider line 37
    More: Followup, Colorado, insanity defense  
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10072 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Sep 2012 at 9:47 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-21 10:32:36 AM
2 votes:
Do they really need the notebook?

The guy's crazier than a bag of cats but you'd be hard pressed to find a jury that won't shove a needle in his arm on principle. Proving his insanity (assuming that whats in those books are years worth of mad raving) should help him more than the prosecution.

/It might shine an unwanted light on his therapist and the university tho.
2012-09-21 08:25:16 AM
2 votes:
You don't need a notebook.

Go find his parents, or what useless sacks of self-absorbed, out of touch fail spawned him and hid from the media the minute this started.

All the answers you want will be right there.

This guys a walking talking billboard for APPRECIATE ME MOM AND DAD COME ON I DARE YOU, with a big side order of I'LL SHOW YOU ALL.
2012-09-21 12:42:26 PM
1 votes:
Couple issues...

Insanity has to do with the mental state at the time of the alleged offense. Depending on where in the country one resides, that burden can fall on either the defense or prosecution. Given that his defense team will likely pursue an insanity defense, the issue of competency (having to do with mental state in the 'here and now') to go to trial will also be explored. These issues will certainly involve "expert witness" testimony from licensed forensic psychologists from both sides of the table who through extensive and painstaking observation, evaluation, and assessment will offer opinions related to 1. The presence and acuity of a serious and persistent mental illness (SPMI), 2. opinions of the current state of competency so to proceed with trial, and eventually, 3. opinions related to the state of mind at the time of the crime.

Personally speaking, it is highly likely that this guy meets the criteria for a serious thought disorder like schizophrenia or at minimum, some kind of psychotic disorder. Whether or not this has anything to do with the final result will be the result of the adversarial process. His latest glamor shot speaks volumes, that kind of look is hard to fake. However, recalling the Jared Loughner case, this individual was officially diagnosed with Paranoid Schizophrenia at some point following his arrest. Despite the presence of a serious mental illness, Loughner accepted a plea deal that sent him to prison for the rest of his life. While he will be closely monitored by trained mental health professionals throughout the rest of his life in prison, insanity was not the route taken for him to get there. This may or may not happen with Holmes, however the end result ill find him incarcerated for the rest of his life in either the DOC or the mental health system, both of which he will not leave without a pine box.

D
2012-09-21 12:18:01 PM
1 votes:
Oh yeah. Still looks like a nutbag.
2012-09-21 11:59:56 AM
1 votes:
Insanity is a legal term, not a medical one. Someone can be mentally ill but not legally insane. Someone can also be legally insane but not mentally ill. Also, one does not have to be mentally ill or legally insane to be a murderer. The Norwegian guy who killed all those kids was declared legally sane.
2012-09-21 11:41:28 AM
1 votes:
scottRiqui
I'm not doctor, but isn't it possible for a paranoid schizophrenic to be functional enough to hold down a job, make plans, gather equipment, etcetera while still honestly believing to the very core of his being that he's being stalked by murderous aliens/assassins/whatever?

When you are able to function within societal rules, you are sane enough to know between right and wrong.
That's the I'm crazy litmus test..do you know right and wrong
2012-09-21 11:36:38 AM
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: I wasn't comparing the relative desirability of mental hospital versus prison. But when one thinks about it, personal security is better in a mental hospital. We don't hear much about gang rapes and beatings by other inmates in mental hospitals, since they keep the most violent patients segregated and medicated.


This guy would probably be in a special wing under watch anyway, since they know there's a definite risk of him either a) committing suicide or b) getting beaten by other inmates. If he's sentenced to death, he'd be on death row. As much as we all like to imagine psychos like this getting what they deserve in prison, the reality is that the more heinous the crime, the more likely it is the person will be isolated from other prisoners.
2012-09-21 11:20:07 AM
1 votes:
I worked with mentally ill and dangerous people in the past. Most places, they are controlled and monitored more closely than criminals.

Also, rather than prison rape, they have prison rape rape. Many of the inmates are far beyond deviant. One guy I knew had a prolapsed rectum from repeated violent rapes. The crazies are usually left alone in normal prisons. He will be housed with the types that would rape your great-grandmother.
2012-09-21 11:06:24 AM
1 votes:

Shadowtag: Holy crap, he looks like he's been hollowed out and is being worn by a legion of venomous spiders.

/I never said he wouldn't deserve it if that's the case.


It's not nice to make me giggle in the office!

/Prosecutors don't need the notebook. He's guilty. What's more evidence going to do? Make him "extra super guilty"?
2012-09-21 11:05:04 AM
1 votes:

Leeds: We'll know what it says after we execute him.

I'm of the impression that privileged info like that doesn't have to stay confidential after the dude's been put down.

Fark Lawyers- Is that correct?


That may take care of the privilege issue, but it also removes any reason for the state to demand that the doctor turn over the notebook (since Holmes would have already been convicted). The doctor might be free to publish the contents of the notebook once Holmes is dead, but I don't think that anyone can compel her to do so.
2012-09-21 10:53:22 AM
1 votes:

fireclown: spicorama: No country condones a murderous rampage of unarmed civilians. That's a war crime.

The judgements on that get kind of fine sometimes. Do carpet bombings count?


Of a civilian population with no strategic value? Yes, war crime.

/Not saying it hasn't happened, or that they havent gotten away with it. Hell, maybe it was even necessary (Hiroshima). But still, the wholesale murder of innocents has always been seen as a crime or at the very least something deplorable.
2012-09-21 10:45:34 AM
1 votes:

fireclown: SquiggsIN: I don't think this level of crazy can be faked. He went on a murderous rampage.... a rational, sane human being CANNOT do that. PERIOD.

I disagree.


Dude is clearly insane...but still culpable and needs to pay.

No different than those people that rape little babies... Clearly they are mentally broken beyond repair... But if they planned and took steps to hide their actions, culpable as fark.
2012-09-21 10:41:45 AM
1 votes:

spicorama: kindms: SquiggsIN: DaCaptain19: The guy is feigning a mental illness. His facial expressions and hair are a big illusion.

I don't think this level of crazy can be faked. He went on a murderous rampage.... a rational, sane human being CANNOT do that. PERIOD.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better.

We pay people to go on murderous rampages and call them heroes.

The only difference is one is condoned and the other is not. The death and destruction is the same. Just because you might agree with the motives of one and not the other doesn't change that fact.

No country condones a murderous rampage of unarmed civilians. That's a war crime.


that statement loops right back to "Keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better".
2012-09-21 10:40:55 AM
1 votes:

miscreant: JackieRabbit: This guy's going to get off on an insanity defense.

So he'll be locked up in an asylum instead of a prison. He's still going to be in a cage for the rest of his life regardless. You probably have more freedom and rights in a prison than a mental institution.


I wasn't comparing the relative desirability of mental hospital versus prison. But when one thinks about it, personal security is better in a mental hospital. We don't hear much about gang rapes and beatings by other inmates in mental hospitals, since they keep the most violent patients segregated and medicated.
2012-09-21 10:38:37 AM
1 votes:

SquiggsIN: DaCaptain19: The guy is feigning a mental illness. His facial expressions and hair are a big illusion.

I don't think this level of crazy can be faked. He went on a murderous rampage.... a rational, sane human being CANNOT do that. PERIOD.


rational, sane humans do it all the time. a friend of mine evaluates people like this. suffice it to say, there is a lot more villainy in the human heart than most people would like to recognize. surely, there are some emotional problems and perhaps some sociopathy, but neither emotional problems nor sociopathy denigrate your capacity for reason.

/ i think what's his name in chinatown said it best, 'most people never have to face the fact that at the right time and the right place, they're capable of anything'.
2012-09-21 10:38:36 AM
1 votes:
FTFA: Also, if Holmes pursues an insanity defense, the suspect would have to waive privilege, and prosecutors would gain access to the notebook.

Good strategy on the prosecutors part.
2012-09-21 10:36:51 AM
1 votes:
He was sane enough to plan it, sane enough to get government grants, sane enough to get the equipment, he was sane when he decided to live after the police gave him a chance to give in.
he's plenty sane

had he showed up at the theater nekked, covered in duck poo and 'shooting' people with a plunger..
I would say the boy was out there flappin'
2012-09-21 10:34:56 AM
1 votes:

cefm: They have zero need for this stupid notebook in order to successfully A) defeat an "insanity" plea; and B) convict him of the maximum possible crime.



Except trying to get him to plead out rather than putting the families and victims through a trial.
2012-09-21 10:32:31 AM
1 votes:
cdn.abclocal.go.com

Anyone else look at this photo and have strong urge to look behind them to see what this guy is staring past at? Like, "What? What is it? Is there something happening behind me?"

/forget, "no one is home in those eyes"
//looks like it was always a vacant lot
2012-09-21 10:31:27 AM
1 votes:

spicorama: NAL...but I think if his defense team goes for an insanity defense, it opens the door for the prosecution to get their hands on the notebook. Along with testimony from the woman he sent it to and any other doctor he had seen.


You may not be a lawyer but at least you can RTFA. Good job!
2012-09-21 10:28:07 AM
1 votes:

kindms: SquiggsIN: DaCaptain19: The guy is feigning a mental illness. His facial expressions and hair are a big illusion.

I don't think this level of crazy can be faked. He went on a murderous rampage.... a rational, sane human being CANNOT do that. PERIOD.

Keep telling yourself that if it makes you sleep better.

We pay people to go on murderous rampages and call them heroes.

The only difference is one is condoned and the other is not. The death and destruction is the same. Just because you might agree with the motives of one and not the other doesn't change that fact.


No country condones a murderous rampage of unarmed civilians. That's a war crime.
2012-09-21 10:27:14 AM
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: This guy's going to get off on an insanity defense.


So he'll be locked up in an asylum instead of a prison. He's still going to be in a cage for the rest of his life regardless. You probably have more freedom and rights in a prison than a mental institution.
2012-09-21 10:27:07 AM
1 votes:
Stupid prosecutors. They are just looking for something to grandstand with. They do NOT NEED IT.

They have the guy who did it, captured at the scene. There's enough evidence of advance planning both for the attack and the police response to it to show he knew what he was doing and he knew what he was doing was wrong.

They have zero need for this stupid notebook in order to successfully A) defeat an "insanity" plea; and B) convict him of the maximum possible crime.
2012-09-21 10:25:16 AM
1 votes:
NAL...but I think if his defense team goes for an insanity defense, it opens the door for the prosecution to get their hands on the notebook. Along with testimony from the woman he sent it to and any other doctor he had seen.
2012-09-21 10:23:04 AM
1 votes:
Can we get the headline fixed to say Side Show Bob?
2012-09-21 10:20:14 AM
1 votes:
We'll know what it says after we execute him.

I'm of the impression that privileged info like that doesn't have to stay confidential after the dude's been put down.

Fark Lawyers- Is that correct?
2012-09-21 10:18:01 AM
1 votes:

JackieRabbit: This guy's going to get off on an insanity defense.


He'd be better off in prison. He's going to be getting daily "treatments" that'll make him wish he pled guilty.
2012-09-21 10:17:10 AM
1 votes:
My opinion: he is shamming.
2012-09-21 10:15:04 AM
1 votes:
This guy's going to get off on an insanity defense.
2012-09-21 10:14:00 AM
1 votes:

DaCaptain19: The guy is feigning a mental illness. His facial expressions and hair are a big illusion.


I think he is mentally broken. That kinda of rampage is just beyond all bounds of sanity.
2012-09-21 10:09:29 AM
1 votes:

DaCaptain19: The guy is feigning a mental illness. His facial expressions and hair are a big illusion.


I don't think this level of crazy can be faked. He went on a murderous rampage.... a rational, sane human being CANNOT do that. PERIOD.
2012-09-21 10:01:00 AM
1 votes:

Generation_D: You don't need a notebook.

Go find his parents, or what useless sacks of self-absorbed, out of touch fail spawned him and hid from the media the minute this started.

All the answers you want will be right there.

This guys a walking talking billboard for APPRECIATE ME MOM AND DAD COME ON I DARE YOU, with a big side order of I'LL SHOW YOU ALL.


It's not always the parents fault. Sometimes people are just hard wired wrong. I have a friend that lives next to his mom and step father and they were apparently a perfectly normal family. This kid did have some mental issues that were being dealt with with medication but that isn't his parents fault.
2012-09-21 10:00:51 AM
1 votes:

whyerhead: Let the memes and the photoshops begin of the new photo..


Yeah, this should be a photoshop thread.

/Only 7%? Hmmm....
2012-09-21 09:53:25 AM
1 votes:
Let the meme's and the photoshops begin of the new photo..
2012-09-21 09:53:16 AM
1 votes:
Holy crap, he looks like he's been hollowed out and is being worn by a legion of venomous spiders.

/I never said he wouldn't deserve it if that's the case.
2012-09-21 09:52:51 AM
1 votes:

Diogenes: He had short brown hair and appeared more animated during the hearing than in the past.

Yeah, if drawn by the the Ren and Stimpy guys. 

[i173.photobucket.com image 320x240]


He does look like he has a bit of the SPAAACCEE MADDNEESSSS
2012-09-21 08:57:34 AM
1 votes:
Oh, he's going to get attention, all righty.
 
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