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(Oregon Live)   Man upset that the military didn't pay for a live bagpiper, drummer, and trumpeter at his father's funeral   (blog.oregonlive.com) divider line 42
    More: Silly, Pearl Harbor, United States Department of Veterans Affairs, Beaverton, military funeral, reservists  
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3057 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Sep 2012 at 5:38 AM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-21 03:43:47 AM
The only thing that could make this inevitable shiatstorm sweeter would be that this link hail from Consumerist, but unfortunately the deceased was not even worthy of that.

/outrage
//there's a "Taps" for that
 
2012-09-21 04:53:40 AM
As somebody who has actually served in a Honor Guard, I can tell you he got just what everyone that served but is not on active duty and not retired military gets. He wasn't shorted. This is nothing new. When I was on the honor guard in 2003 we had the same standard. Active duty death funeral, full honors, rifle team, flag team, officer. Retired, 7 man detail doing rifle and flag. Served but that's it, 3 people. As for the digital taps recording, yes, it is fake, but the best Honor Guards will fake the funk very well. I have had countless old buggers come up to tell me it was the best bugle playing they had heard since they were in the service, and I just said "thanks sir!" It's better than a CD player. What people are not keeping in mind is that WWII and Korea veterans are reaching that age where they are dying left and right, and a hell of a lot of people served. Millions. I would do 3-4 funerals a week, almost all old buggers from ancient times that finally went on to their final reward. I have NEVER, NEVER had any family members complain. They ALL were honored to have us there to celebrate their loved ones life. This guy was just an entitled tool, and the whole article is mountain out of molehill story making.

SGT DasCoop

US Army
 
2012-09-21 06:03:43 AM
There are some details missing from this story.
It doesn't say whether the son himself served.
It also doesn't say why the son wanted the full hollywood production....
the story does say that someone who died during active duty
got the full hollywood production........ but it sounds like (and
this is just assumption) the son knew someone just like his
father who served WW2 and got full pomp, and he's pissed
that his father didn't get the same thing and wants to know why.

that's the only thing I can come up with.

grandfather who served WW2 died
there was a flag
there was no music, no big deal military presence
there was no one pretending to play taps or standing
attention as honor guard
was he supposed to get those things?
if he was, even the little things beyond there being a flag
for his widow, then the family got gyped.
if he wasn't, well...

still, big picture there's no money in it
it's like tech support versus sales department

/your tax dollars at work
 
2012-09-21 06:32:20 AM
Arent WWII and Korean vets dying off like flies?

Its kinda hard to have full funerals when they have thousands of funerals each day
 
2012-09-21 06:38:33 AM
Wtf. Did he serve in the Scottish army?
 
2012-09-21 06:39:43 AM
FTA:

with a couple of soldiers and a digital recording of Taps, played from a bugle that a soldier only pretends to blow.

When did we just quit trying?
 
2012-09-21 06:46:26 AM
As someone who buried his 84 year old father, a US Navy Retired Senior Chief, at Willamette National Cemetery three weeks ago, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...

That being said, part of the story is true. It did feel a bit rushed and Taps was canned, but the rifle volley and full Honor Guard were live. And a US Navy Chief presented me with the flag that was draped over my dads casket.

I can only hope I receive the same honors when I go one fine day, 'cept of course it's a USAF Senior Chief presenting the flag to my daughter.

/I cried like a baby.
 
2012-09-21 06:48:13 AM
How do you tune a bagpipe?


With a pitchfork.

/I'll be here all week
 
2012-09-21 06:53:31 AM
... USAF Senior Chief ...

Did I really type that? I meant to say "Senior Master Sergeant".

/need another drink or more sleep
 
2012-09-21 06:55:10 AM
I'm going out on a limb here and guessing that the son stays in a perpetual state of being upset. Sorry a out your dad but learn to chill. You don't get everything you WANT.
 
2012-09-21 07:02:11 AM
I never charged for playing Taps at a military funeral. I'm not even pro-military, but it just seems like the respectful thing to do.
 
2012-09-21 07:03:36 AM

Closed_Minded_Bastage: As someone who buried his 84 year old father, a US Navy Retired Senior Chief, at Willamette National Cemetery three weeks ago, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...

That being said, part of the story is true. It did feel a bit rushed and Taps was canned, but the rifle volley and full Honor Guard were live. And a US Navy Chief presented me with the flag that was draped over my dads casket.

I can only hope I receive the same honors when I go one fine day, 'cept of course it's a USAF Senior Chief presenting the flag to my daughter.

/I cried like a baby.


Condolences.
 
2012-09-21 07:09:24 AM
Which side was responsible for this budget cut? Funerals are not for the dead, they are for the survivors.
 
2012-09-21 07:36:54 AM
I'm guessing if the father had known the son was going to do this, he would have give him a kick in the ass, and told him how he was thankful he survived that day when so many of his brothers didn't. How he was grateful he was able to live a full life, have a family and die an old man, instead of dying as a kid in the hull of a ship.
 
2012-09-21 07:49:01 AM

Closed_Minded_Bastage: As someone who buried his 84 year old father, a US Navy Retired Senior Chief, at Willamette National Cemetery three weeks ago, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...
/I cried like a baby.


My Dad is 80 and a Navy/AF vet. Seems we were doing through the same thing a few weeks ago. Regardless of the canned music, my chest was bursting with pride. The old Boy Scouters (whom were old when I was young) and the vets were all standing straight and true through the Honors.

/I cried like a man with pride
//Vet myself
///Thanks vets one and all


PS: Miss ya, old timer.
 
2012-09-21 08:08:48 AM

DasCoop: As somebody who has actually served in a Honor Guard, I can tell you he got just what everyone that served but is not on active duty and not retired military gets. He wasn't shorted. This is nothing new. When I was on the honor guard in 2003 we had the same standard. Active duty death funeral, full honors, rifle team, flag team, officer. Retired, 7 man detail doing rifle and flag. Served but that's it, 3 people. As for the digital taps recording, yes, it is fake, but the best Honor Guards will fake the funk very well. I have had countless old buggers come up to tell me it was the best bugle playing they had heard since they were in the service, and I just said "thanks sir!" It's better than a CD player. What people are not keeping in mind is that WWII and Korea veterans are reaching that age where they are dying left and right, and a hell of a lot of people served. Millions. I would do 3-4 funerals a week, almost all old buggers from ancient times that finally went on to their final reward. I have NEVER, NEVER had any family members complain. They ALL were honored to have us there to celebrate their loved ones life. This guy was just an entitled tool, and the whole article is mountain out of molehill story making.

SGT DasCoop

US Army


Same here. I did funeral honors for about a year. (Side duty. Mostly retired vets who had died from eating two many hostess fruit pies. A lot of those farkers where farking heavy). Die on active duty-full fanfare. Die after 20 good years of military service-pretty much the same thing. Served 3 years and left the military on your own accord-Yeah, we toss you a flag and say thanks for 1/6th of what everyone else did. What the fark do you want? The military wasn't your life. It was something you did to pay for college.

I am sad to say our Taps was played on a cassette player.
 
2012-09-21 08:11:01 AM
 
2012-09-21 08:11:53 AM

Whole Wheat: FTA:

with a couple of soldiers and a digital recording of Taps, played from a bugle that a soldier only pretends to blow.

When did we just quit trying?


You're right. We'd be much better off spending on musicians, rather than things like health care for wounded vets.

/former brass player
//playing Taps isn't easy to do well.
 
2012-09-21 08:15:56 AM

DasCoop: As somebody who has actually served in a Honor Guard, I can tell you he got just what everyone that served but is not on active duty and not retired military gets. He wasn't shorted. This is nothing new. When I was on the honor guard in 2003 we had the same standard. Active duty death funeral, full honors, rifle team, flag team, officer. Retired, 7 man detail doing rifle and flag. Served but that's it, 3 people. As for the digital taps recording, yes, it is fake, but the best Honor Guards will fake the funk very well. I have had countless old buggers come up to tell me it was the best bugle playing they had heard since they were in the service, and I just said "thanks sir!" It's better than a CD player. What people are not keeping in mind is that WWII and Korea veterans are reaching that age where they are dying left and right, and a hell of a lot of people served. Millions. I would do 3-4 funerals a week, almost all old buggers from ancient times that finally went on to their final reward. I have NEVER, NEVER had any family members complain. They ALL were honored to have us there to celebrate their loved ones life. This guy was just an entitled tool, and the whole article is mountain out of molehill story making.

SGT DasCoop

US Army


Agreed. I was the NCO in charge of the funeral operations detachment at Fort McPherson, Ga in the late 80s. Oftentimes, for a vet who'd simply "served", I would go alone with a pre-folded flag and present it to the survivor.
 
2012-09-21 08:24:58 AM

bluecrabscribe: Whole Wheat: FTA:

with a couple of soldiers and a digital recording of Taps, played from a bugle that a soldier only pretends to blow.

When did we just quit trying?

You're right. We'd be much better off spending on musicians, rather than things like health care for wounded vets.

/former brass player
//playing Taps isn't easy to do well.


The army I remember had a band.
 
2012-09-21 09:19:54 AM
My father was USMC and a lifelong member of various drum and bugle corps. We had an honor guard, but brought our own bugler...and eight more horns. Who played his favorite, 'Shenandoah'.

Then *two* buglers played Taps, one horn echoing the other.

It was a perfect memorial. I feel for anyone who doesn't get that moment.

Miss you, Dad.
 
2012-09-21 09:25:01 AM
That guy should have contacted his local American Legion or VFW. They did the rifle salute and flag presentation for my FIL (retired SFC, Army), and a friend of the family played Taps. The funeral was arranged so quickly that the Honor Guard wasn't able to come, but they said they'd do another flag presentation at his burial (he was cremated). My MIL has the head stone and the plot, but seems to like keeping his ashes, so I don't know when that will happen.

My husband has asked that I scatter his ashes at Gettysburg, at some of his favorite sites. I don't know if it's allowed, but if they won't let me, I'm going to do it Shawshank style through the holes in my pockets.
 
2012-09-21 09:40:26 AM
When my great uncle, who'd served throughout the war in both Europe and the Pacific, passed away, all we got was 3 guys from a local veterans group and a flag to place with him. It was touching but odd, since the war had ended 40 years before he died we just didn't even associate that with the guy he'd become.

/RIP uncle Plakias, still missing you, 20 years on.
//thinks the son in the article was a bit grief-deranged.
 
2012-09-21 09:45:26 AM

DasCoop: I have had countless old buggers come up to tell me it was the best bugle playing they had heard since they were in the service, and I just said "thanks sir!" It's better than a CD player. What people are not keeping in mind is that WWII and Korea veterans are reaching that age where they are dying left and right, and a hell of a lot of people served. Millions. I would do 3-4 funerals a week, almost all old buggers from ancient times that finally went on to their final reward. I have NEVER, NEVER had any family members complain. They ALL were honored to have us there to celebrate their loved ones life


When my father in law died in july, it was the fake bugle, but it was only obvious if you were paying attention. the salute was real and knowing it's coming, it's still hard not to jump at the rifles. I was very appreciative of it. (He served 20 years.)
 
2012-09-21 09:55:46 AM

DasCoop: As somebody who has actually served in a Honor Guard...


MythDragon: I did funeral honors for about a year.


AsteroidB613: I was the NCO in charge of the funeral operations detachment at Fort McPherson, Ga in the late 80s.


Speaking as somebody who can afford to occasionally forget the fact that we even HAVE a military because of the sacrifices of those at whose funerals you served --

thank you, farkers, for what you did.
 
2012-09-21 10:15:55 AM

DasCoop: As for the digital taps recording...


I am at a loss as to why TFA included this irrelevant detail. Would it be better if the recording was All-Wave? No one has ever said "I can't believe they used an analog recording instead of live musicians!"

It's the 21st century. Digital recording has been around for 40 years or so. Let's get over it.
 
2012-09-21 10:31:01 AM

C0rf: DasCoop: As somebody who has actually served in a Honor Guard...

MythDragon: I did funeral honors for about a year.

AsteroidB613: I was the NCO in charge of the funeral operations detachment at Fort McPherson, Ga in the late 80s.

Speaking as somebody who can afford to occasionally forget the fact that we even HAVE a military because of the sacrifices of those at whose funerals you served --

thank you, farkers, for what you did.


My grandfather had a recording of taps, but I was surprised they did a rifle team. It was shortly after 9-11 so they did not escape without thanks for their service.
 
2012-09-21 11:00:37 AM

Closed_Minded_Bastage: As someone who buried his 84 year old father, a US Navy Retired Senior Chief, at Willamette National Cemetery three weeks ago, I'm getting a kick out of this thread...


Word to the wise: When you go to visit, there will always be something that is amusing in a supremely ironic or odd way. Like the time I had to pretty much destroy a Mercedes' paint job while exiting on Memorial Day one year. Or the constant construction over by Columbarium III.
 
2012-09-21 11:03:27 AM
Thank you DasCoop and every other honors provider that posted here.

You described the exact same honors received by my father and uncle at their funerals in 2004 and last winter respectively.

We were overcome with emotion and gratitude that people who didn't know my dad and uncle not only came and did their assigned duty but were genuinely sympathetic to what we were going through.

My dad's funeral did seem kind of rushed but I can understand in an active military cemetery doing 15 or 20 burials a day, that is going to happen. My biggest disappointment was that we couldn't do a graveside service. I understood it when we were told why and I realize that there's no way they can allow people at the graveside when what they're doing is opening up a trench and burying all the people for that day side by side. I would have put him elsewhere because of that but got overruled.

Thanks again, my entire family appreciated it more than we can say.
 
2012-09-21 11:22:54 AM
Pops was in the Marines in Korea, and he passed away back in '03. Although he wouldn't talk about his time in the service at all, he was very sentimental about the brotherhood of the Marines themselves. Funeral director, when we were setting things up for the service, warned us ahead of time that due to having many service-related funerals, to not expect much. We were prepared for canned taps and maybe a lone Marine to show up for the outdoor service.

Morning of the funeral came, and the director came flying up to me. I have no clue what my Pops did while in the Marines, but she said she'd gotten his paperwork to them and that they'd be here. Boy were they. He got a live version of taps, a group of (I think) three Marines that did the entire gun salute protocol (I lost count of the shots), and hanging on my wall now, and folded just as it was that morning, is the flag that was handed to me.

Yeah, I was gonna cry at my Dad's funeral anyway, but damn. Pops was somewhere just BEAMING with pride, I'm sure.
 
2012-09-21 11:30:58 AM
The guy gets a free burial plot, marker, grave opening and closing, perpetual care, etc., and he whines about the entertainment. Fark him.
 
2012-09-21 11:44:20 AM

MythDragon: DasCoop: As somebody who has actually served in a Honor Guard, I can tell you he got just what everyone that served but is not on active duty and not retired military gets. He wasn't shorted. This is nothing new. When I was on the honor guard in 2003 we had the same standard. Active duty death funeral, full honors, rifle team, flag team, officer. Retired, 7 man detail doing rifle and flag. Served but that's it, 3 people. As for the digital taps recording, yes, it is fake, but the best Honor Guards will fake the funk very well. I have had countless old buggers come up to tell me it was the best bugle playing they had heard since they were in the service, and I just said "thanks sir!" It's better than a CD player. What people are not keeping in mind is that WWII and Korea veterans are reaching that age where they are dying left and right, and a hell of a lot of people served. Millions. I would do 3-4 funerals a week, almost all old buggers from ancient times that finally went on to their final reward. I have NEVER, NEVER had any family members complain. They ALL were honored to have us there to celebrate their loved ones life. This guy was just an entitled tool, and the whole article is mountain out of molehill story making.

SGT DasCoop

US Army

Same here. I did funeral honors for about a year. (Side duty. Mostly retired vets who had died from eating two many hostess fruit pies. A lot of those farkers where farking heavy). Die on active duty-full fanfare. Die after 20 good years of military service-pretty much the same thing. Served 3 years and left the military on your own accord-Yeah, we toss you a flag and say thanks for 1/6th of what everyone else did. What the fark do you want? The military wasn't your life. It was something you did to pay for college.

I am sad to say our Taps was played on a cassette player.


I used to play trumpet in high school (was pretty good actually) and after the local base lost it's trumpet player (and whole band), my JROTC instructor asked me to bring my trumpet one day while dressed in full uniform to the base. I spent the next two years at many a funeral providing taps for the local base.

I had to witness so many crying widows (many of which hugged me) which had fully expected a tape recording of taps. -I couldn't do all of the funerals, but I did as many as I could.

-It's a damn shame a high school student had to volunteer his time because the government refused to pay one extra salary so people could be honored at their funeral.
 
2012-09-21 12:01:02 PM

Gabrielmot: -It's a damn shame a high school student had to volunteer his time because the government refused to pay one extra salary so people could be honored at their funeral.


That's the thing, it's not one extra salary, there i a whole nation full of cemeteries, it would be thousands of salaries.
 
2012-09-21 12:08:36 PM
I buried my father last year at Riverside National Cemetery. He was honorably discharged from the Navy and, as DasCoop pointed out, had the three man service. The mortuary we used was very knowledgeable about what was covered (lots of retired military in the area) as well as had good contact with the cemetery. We were extremely grateful for what was covered. For parts that weren't covered, such as the rifle volley, they only asked for a donation for the Memorial Honor Detail.
 
2012-09-21 12:51:04 PM
One of the thins we did was give three of the spent (blank) brass away with the flag.
 
2012-09-21 01:25:54 PM

MythDragon: One of the thins we did was give three of the spent (blank) brass away with the flag.


Yeah, I got the brass also. I'm waiting for the Dept of the Navy to get back to me detailing my fathers Awards & Decs (none of which are listed on his DD-214. Odd, all mine are) so I can have a proper shadow box made to hold his flag, the A&Ds and the brass.

And I'd like to pass along my appreciation to all the men and women that provide Honors; Thanks!
 
2012-09-21 01:48:14 PM

cman: Arent WWII and Korean vets dying off like flies?

Its kinda hard to have full funerals when they have thousands of funerals each day


Few of them are even entitled to a full funeral detail.

The military, for DECADES, has had a policy on what kind of veteran gets what kind of funeral. Killed In Action, or while on Active Duty has ALWAYS warranted a more elaborate funeral detail. The death of a veteran who served long enough to warrant a full requirement (20 years minimum, or retired early due to a service-related disability) warrants a more elaborate funeral detail than a veteran who separated after a single term of enlistment.

It has nothing to do with cost-cutting. It is a long-established tradition with a well-defined protocol on what kind of deceased veteran gets what kind of funeral detail.

Nine members of my old battalion were killed in action during a single deployment to Iraq. None of them got a drummer, a bagpiper, or a violinist. I have never even heard of that as a "military tradition." And it's a bugler, not a trumpeter.

I'm pretty sure the bagpiper is a NYPD or Boston PD thing, and this guy has his "shiat I saw in the movies" mixed up.
 
2012-09-21 02:53:25 PM
A violinist? Yeah that's not your standard military type funeral.
 
2012-09-21 04:37:51 PM
My grandfather drove an M3 half-track around Europe during WWII. When gramps died in '92, there was a piper at his funeral... but a) he was an off-the-boat Scottish immigrant and b) his three kids damn well paid for it.
 
2012-09-21 05:54:19 PM
My dad died in 1989 and was buried in toms river. We had rifles, a bugler and enough Guys to carry his coffin.

I still recall seeing one of the men carrying his coffin with tears in his eyes

Damn dusty all of a sudden.

I used to have a few of the shells til my uber:gun hating sister in law tossed them out helping during a move.
 
2012-09-21 06:02:57 PM

kmwheel: My husband has asked that I scatter his ashes at Gettysburg, at some of his favorite sites. I don't know if it's allowed, but if they won't let me, I'm going to do it Shawshank style through the holes in my pockets.


That's an even better sendoff than having permission - the Shawshank Sendoff.
 
2012-09-24 05:25:32 AM
The Shawshank Sendoff, that sounds like either a kind of mob hit or a really kinky sex act!

Story: kmwheel: My husband has asked that I scatter his ashes at Gettysburg, at some of his favorite sites. I don't know if it's allowed, but if they won't let me, I'm going to do it Shawshank style through the holes in my pockets.

That's an even better sendoff than having permission - the Shawshank Sendoff.

 
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