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(Talking Points Memo)   Former GOP presidential frontrunner Rick Perry blames the separation of church and state on Satan   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 95
    More: Asinine, Rick Perry, Satans, GOP, falsehoods, frontrunners  
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7747 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Sep 2012 at 8:14 PM (1 year ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



Voting Results (Smartest)
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Archived thread
2012-09-20 04:34:21 PM
8 votes:
The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.
2012-09-20 04:04:43 PM
7 votes:
what an epic moron.
2012-09-20 11:34:56 PM
6 votes:
So, this God guy, he creates all of existence in 6 days. And he creates all loving things from the dust of the earth except for the human woman, which for some reason he takes a rib from man and makes her from it. Sounds like that's saying women are the property of men and are lesser beings, since they were made from existing man and not from the dust (and before he created woman God, the all-knowing one, had to ask why man was so sad and lonely as he walked alone among creatures who had male and female).

Then God tells man and woman to never, EVER touch this one tree that he decided to stick right in the center of the garden within easy reach. One day, while off taking a nap or something, God completely misses Satan waltzing in and telling woman it's okay to eat from that one special tree (not knowing right and wrong, she and man had no way of knowing it was wrong to eat from it). Then God wakes up or finishes his raid on Onyxia or whatever, wonders where the humans went, and when he finds them and finds out about the tree, he completely loses his shiat and curses the entirety of creation to punish the two humans and all of their descendents. That's like you coming home to find your two-year-old got into the cookie jar, so you nuke the entire world and toss your toddler out into it to fend for himself.

From then on, it's like a horror show: God gets so emo about humans not kowtowing to him that he nearly destroys all of creation; God constantly screws with Pharaoh so he can keep torturing Egypt; God utterly destroys a man's life in a bet with Satan when he could have just waved his hand and made Satan implode or turn into a gecko; God annihilates two cities because the inhabitants are fun-loving live-for-life people, then turns the wife of the only surviving family into salt for turning around; God slaughers a bunch of children with bears for the crime of calling someone "baldy"; God demands an old man sacrifice his only son as a test of faith (would an all-knowing being really need to do something like this?); on and on and on.

Then one day, he decides that he'll finally do something about his little cursing and punishing way back when, except instea dof just snapping his fingers and making it all better, he creates this bizarre and convoluted plan where a piece of him goes down to a woman, is born mortal, lives for a while, is brutally tortured and killed, then returns to him, and somehow that forgives mankind of his sins (except it doesn't). Then he completely vanishes and for the last 2,000 years his only works are making vague images of his son and his mother appear on toast and in paint.

Oh, and one day God will destroy the universe and take a small fraction of humanity to paradise while the rest suffer in indescribable torment for the rest of infinity.

Uwe Boll movies are less convoluted and more believeable.
2012-09-20 08:19:42 PM
6 votes:
This just solidifies my belief that these fundies are jealous of their Muslim counterparts. They are upset that the middle east has a working theocracy and we don't
2012-09-20 06:07:16 PM
6 votes:
"Somehow or another there's this, ya know, steel wall, this iron curtain or whatever you want to call it between the church and people of faith and this separation of church and state is just false on its face," the governor said. "We have a biblical responsibility to be involved in the public arena proclaiming God's truth."

Theocracy is bad. I don't care what god you worship (or don't worship), any theocratic government is bad. I won't vote for it, and in fact i'll fight against it. the Founding Fathers were very smart folks. they knew that a theocratic form of government was a terrible idea, and took steps to make sure the US government wasn't infected by a state sponsored religion.
2012-09-20 05:55:48 PM
6 votes:
Satan really gets a bad rap. Unlike God, there's nothing in the Bible about Satan committing genocide or killing children. All he's really accused of is hiding fossils and giving an apple to a naked chick.
2012-09-20 07:12:50 PM
5 votes:
FTFA: Perry said the separation of religious and civic institutions in the U.S. began with a "narrative" that first took root in the 1960s....this separation of church and state is just false on its face," the governor said. "We have a biblical responsibility to be involved in the public arena proclaiming God's truth."

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

i.imgur.com

You'll notice Madison's famous remonstrance--which along with Jefferson became the basis for Virginia's Religious Freedom Act - is dated 1785.
2012-09-20 04:11:46 PM
5 votes:

FlashHarry: what an epic moron


At least he is a consistent one...

"We have a biblical responsibility to be involved in the public arena proclaiming God's truth."

And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]
2012-09-20 06:32:45 PM
4 votes:

EatTheWorld: Weaver95: Theocracy is bad. I don't care what god you worship (or don't worship), any theocratic government is bad. I won't vote for it, and in fact i'll fight against it. the Founding Fathers were very smart folks. they knew that a theocratic form of government was a terrible idea, and took steps to make sure the US government wasn't infected by a state sponsored religion.

I agree. But just for funs sake, couldn't we say a government that cradles us from outside the womb to tomb, with topside government health care, food stamps, EIC, retirement, you know, kinda of like all of our real need? health, food, money, and oldfart worry free. Not that I'm saying government is good at any of these things, but they try, and mean well. To me that is a religion to the state. When the government has all that control on your food, health and money, they control you. Worse than religion actually.


it's really very simple - right now my choices are between a mildly right of center Democrat (Obama) and a far right wing vulture capitalist who (ab)uses his religion to justify his greed and selfish grab for power. you cannot support the Republicans without supporting the right wing theocrats who infest the GOP these days. it's impossible to separate the two factions. you cannot scrub the Jesus out of the Republicans no matter how hard you try. Given the realities of our situation, my support has to go to the Democrats (at the national level) and the libertarians (at the state/local level). I cannot vote Republican, nor can I justify supporting the GOP in any manner.

hey, I didn't make these rules. but that's the game.
2012-09-20 05:42:36 PM
4 votes:
Perry should also be reminded then that according to his Bible, all earthly authority derives from God.

Therefore, God chose Obama.

//Also, revolt is a sin just like witchcraft, so knock off the secession talk!
2012-09-20 05:40:40 PM
4 votes:

impaler: Perry said the separation of religious and civic institutions in the U.S. began with a "narrative" that first took root in the 1960s.

"Somehow or another there's this, ya know, steel wall, this iron curtain or whatever you want to call it between the church and people of faith and this separation of church and state is just false on its face,"

I think someone's history book has a few pages stuck together.


Let's just get these out of the way:

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. - Thomas Jefferson

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,-and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. - Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams (the first one who co-drafted the Declaration of Independence)
2012-09-20 05:33:50 PM
4 votes:
They'll never have the elite, smart people on their side.
2012-09-20 04:12:17 PM
4 votes:
He needs a dick punch.
2012-09-20 08:27:56 PM
3 votes:
Being religious should automatically disqualify one from holding public office.
2012-09-20 08:16:43 PM
3 votes:

EatTheWorld: Somacandra: Statism exists in a variety of ideological flavors. Its not a religion itself though--religions have rituals. Specific nationalisms on the other hand are quite religious. American civil religion has its sacred scriptures (Const, DOI), its rituals (voting, pledge of allegiance) and its mythic narrative it convinces itself its about (twirling, ever-twirling towards freedom and progress).

semantics I say. What is the difference between fanaticism for the church or the state?


while that's an interesting side discussion, it's not really all that relevant to THIS conversation...which is about a key member of the Republican party who's pretty open about his wish to turn the USA into a theocratic regime.
2012-09-20 07:51:27 PM
3 votes:
"You think about this spiritual warfare that's going on and ...

So it's "spiritual warfare" to want the government to abide by its own doctrine? It's "warfare" to not want fundie wingnuts designing science and health classes for public schools? It's "warfare" to not permit public funds to religious institutions? It's "warfare" that a non-believer has the very same rights you all do?

Do you charlatan sh*tstains ever get tired of using the word "warfare" to describe what's actually "we're pitching b*tch-fits whenever we can't force our dogma on the public?" Whiny-ass, spiteful p*ssies, the lot of you
2012-09-20 05:32:09 PM
3 votes:
of course, "former GOP presidential frontrunner" also applies to certified batshiat crazies such as michelle bachmann, herman cain, newt gingrich, and rick santorum - pretty much "anyone but romney." and look who they ended up with....

the sad thing is, jon huntsman would be ahead right now if he had gotten the GOP nom.
2012-09-20 10:54:45 PM
2 votes:

EatTheWorld: Weaver95: Theocracy is bad. I don't care what god you worship (or don't worship), any theocratic government is bad. I won't vote for it, and in fact i'll fight against it. the Founding Fathers were very smart folks. they knew that a theocratic form of government was a terrible idea, and took steps to make sure the US government wasn't infected by a state sponsored religion.

I agree. But just for funs sake, couldn't we say a government that cradles us from outside the womb to tomb, with topside government health care, food stamps, EIC, retirement, you know, kinda of like all of our real need? health, food, money, and oldfart worry free. Not that I'm saying government is good at any of these things, but they try, and mean well. To me that is a religion to the state. When the government has all that control on your food, health and money, they control you. Worse than religion actually.


Do you know of any country on earth that supplies everything for its citizens?

Even Norwegians and Swedes who may have the best welfare system in the world hold down jobs and earn money. The state provides certain basic services such as healthcare but free / subsidized food and shelter are only provided to the poor. You can argue that the lazy can also obtain free food and shelter but it is not exactly luxurious - if you want more than the very basic you need to work.

To look at it another way, does the US government own you because it builds roads, public hospitals, public schools and provides defense and emergency services? No of course not. You in fact own the government.

So I think your argument is not valid.
2012-09-20 10:45:05 PM
2 votes:

EatTheWorld: and ya, if they NEED the government for all that in perpetuity, then them voting to cut that net will never happen. And it seems clear that is the way democrats want it. Therefore the liberal religion is born.


except you're pulling shiat out of your ass. according to official federal welfare statistics 99% of people who are on federal assistance are on it for once in their life for less than six months.


but don't let facts get in the way of your mythology
2012-09-20 10:41:02 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95: I love this attitude. 'all you people are assholes for demanding that I follow your belief system...so i'm going to demand that you follow MY belief system or I'll call you stupid!'

you might want to take a step back and reconsider your worldview. while I certainly don't agree with atheists (I think *something* is out there), I wholeheartedly agree that atheists have a right to exist, hold public office and generally live their lives as they see fit without interference from anyone over their non-beliefs. All most people want is the same sort of consideration in return....and that includes telling snotty atheists to STFU about how superior they are over anyone who believes in a god (or gods)


I don't want to be snotty, but I'm more or less with umad. I don't understand religion,. I don't understand why people are religious. I do understand that most religious people are not mentally ill. I understand that someone can have religious beliefs and still drive a car. I'd be willing to let a religious surgeon perform heart surgery on me if I needed it. Religious people are not crazy in a way that compromises their ability to live and perform tasks in the real world. But still, I don't get it. I have a really, really hard time understanding how somebody can be capable of driving a car or performing surgery, and still believe that there were talking snakes in the Garden of Eden. How can someone reconcile even the remotest respect for the importance of evidence with the simultaneous belief that there are angels flying around, or that devils and gods and genies (for Muslims) and resurrections and virgin births and magic Earth-covering floods are real things? Basically it disturbs the sh*t out of me that people believe these things. I understand that my religious friends and family members aren't (all) insane. But that sane people believe in angels and talking snakes freaks me right the f*ck out. 

Any religious person who criticizes Mormons or Scientologists on the basis that they believe crazy things has to have a profound capacity for cognitive dissonance.
2012-09-20 10:19:20 PM
2 votes:
Why we need a Separation of Church and State:

www.inquisition-art.net
2012-09-20 09:07:36 PM
2 votes:

Mugato: Satan really gets a bad rap. Unlike God, there's nothing in the Bible about Satan committing genocide or killing children. All he's really accused of is hiding fossils and giving an apple to a naked chick.

Lumpmoose: Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. - Thomas Jefferson

As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen,-and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries. - Treaty of Tripoli, signed by President John Adams (the first one who co-drafted the Declaration of Independence)


Has anybody else read the Age of Reason by Founding Father Thomas Payne? I'm about halfway through with it now, it is a tour de force of religion bashing. The best part is that if it weren't for Payne's first book, there wouldn't have been a revolution at all and he is probably the most important founding father. That's not even hyperbole.

Anyways, he wrote the aforementioned book that basically just consists of tearing the Bible apart for hundreds of pages. It's highly recommended. He had this whole part on how silly Satan is as an entity. His origin story is that he had a war with God, but none of the people in the battle can be hurt or killed, so God banishes Lucifer to a giant pit (basically just stealing the story of Tartarus from the Greeks).

After that stolen story, it seems the authors decided to make Lucifer then more powerful than God. Lucifer frees himself of his own accord from God's punishment, which seemingly gives him more power than God. After he escapes, he not only exists outside of the pit but seemingly everywhere at once, just like God. The first thing he does is ruin God's creation of man by simple trickery, so God's response is to make a human representation of himself go to Earth and die to make up for it. And if Judas had to sell Jesus out, then it means Jesus was not meaning to die when he did. If Satan had to go to Earth and die as punishment for his crime, it would make a lot more sense than what happened. The whole thing is completely ridiculous and completely contradictory.
2012-09-20 09:05:29 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95: God-is-a-Taco:
Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.

it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.


PLUS, you know that all the cool and fun people get to hand out with Satan for all eternity.
WHY would Satan punish people that are not allowed into heaven? Wouldnt that technically be doing god's work??? Hell, a proper HELL would be non-stop awesomeness. Firefly 24x7. sex, drugs, rock and roll.
and NO bible thumping rtards!!!
2012-09-20 08:53:38 PM
2 votes:

Weaver95:
for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).


I've been reading too many political threads. My brain first registered this as "job creator". 
The "Minor God rebelling against Major God(s)" is one of my favorite stories in myths, and as I said in another Satan/Lucifer thread I see most of Christian myths as not-so-subtle rip-offs of Greek (Roman) mythology.

Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.
2012-09-20 08:41:25 PM
2 votes:
In the bible, God runs things and Satan is nearly powerless
In "reality", Satan runs things and God is nearly powerless.
2012-09-20 08:39:10 PM
2 votes:

Silly Jesus: Being religious should automatically disqualify one from holding public office.


Oh? And how would you define "religious?" What if someone holds onto a socio-political idoloegy which functions just like a religion but doesn't involve the worship of a god? I know atheists who firmly believe that certains stripes of radical feminism, Marxism and environmentalism to be defacto religions in and of themselves. (Involving something resembling Original Sin [patriarchy, pollution], and the belief that one can attain a heavenly utopia on earth just by observing certain rules and behaviors. And believing that it's right to force people into adopting the way of life THEY believe is best for everybody.) One doesn't have to believe in a god to hold irrational, emotion-based beliefs. Or to be a menace to free people everywhere.
2012-09-20 08:28:48 PM
2 votes:
Well then... thank you, Satan.
2012-09-20 08:28:37 PM
2 votes:
talkingpointsmemo.com

God is the answer to everything!

www.theblaze.com

HEY! That's MY LINE!
2012-09-20 08:24:44 PM
2 votes:
t.qkme.me
2012-09-20 08:13:14 PM
2 votes:

EatTheWorld: What is the difference between fanaticism for the church or the state?


A wall of separation between state and state.
2012-09-20 07:41:23 PM
2 votes:

ghare: America was founded by people who wished to impose their religious beliefs on others. No lie.That's why they got kicked out of the good countries.


that's not true at all.
2012-09-20 07:39:49 PM
2 votes:
America was founded by people who wished to impose their religious beliefs on others. No lie.That's why they got kicked out of the good countries.
2012-09-20 05:52:16 PM
2 votes:
even I can't defend this bullshiat.

Religious freedom or lack of one at all is just as much a cornerstone of our nation as is free speech or the 2nd. The bible thumpers are killing republicans.


Rick Perry leaves one to thank god for satan... goddamnit you moron you are not helping.

:/
2012-09-20 04:58:41 PM
2 votes:
Perry said the separation of religious and civic institutions in the U.S. began with a "narrative" that first took root in the 1960s.

"Somehow or another there's this, ya know, steel wall, this iron curtain or whatever you want to call it between the church and people of faith and this separation of church and state is just false on its face,"


I think someone's history book has a few pages stuck together.
2012-09-20 04:31:10 PM
2 votes:

Blues_X: He needs a dick punch.


You're assuming he has one.
2012-09-21 06:27:24 PM
1 votes:
The thing about a belief in Satan is it makes all the tough questions really easy.

Who's dog crapped on my lawn? Satan.
Who pissed in my shoe? Satan.
Who is responsible for this fiasco we call the GOP? Satan.

We believe in Satan and we never have to take responsibility for anything.
2012-09-21 09:47:02 AM
1 votes:

namatad: But it is crystal clear that the tards who claim to know the mind of god are delusional.


*raises hand* I... I know the Mind of God, at least partially.

It's writ large all across the universe. In every event which we perceive, the Mind (perhaps the Word) is there, obvious to all who can see.

You see, 2+2 is ALWAYS 4. The cube root of 27 is ALWAYS 3. Without fail. Every time. EVERY TIME. If omnipotence exists, it most certainly has dictated that the ruleset we know as mathematics is trump, irresistible in effect and omniscient in its ability to account for every related variable.

Math is the OS of reality. That HAS to be the will of any existing God.

Now that you know my Canon, and I have told you that I know (at least partially) the mind of God do you think I should be denigrated as a fool for my religious beliefs?
2012-09-21 03:00:55 AM
1 votes:

Harry_Seldon: Is Rick Perry developmentally disabled?


That's what I thought when I saw that very unfortunate clip from the debate in the primaries when he completely forgot the contents of his all-important list of agencies he planned to scrap. The other candidates, helpfully suggesting options, Perry's brain completely failing to work.
2012-09-21 02:49:59 AM
1 votes:
Is Rick Perry developmentally disabled?
2012-09-21 01:42:47 AM
1 votes:
I blame Rick Perry on Satan.
2012-09-21 01:15:43 AM
1 votes:

umad: brukmann: umad: brukmann: LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc:
This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome

'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.

I think you mean only *u's* 'it's'

Hey your welcome

I think you mean *you're* welcome.

Hey you're welcome

ok. I can't tell who is farking around and who is being serious here anymore.


To make matters more confusing, everyone seems to be ignoring the point that it's not death "throws" it's death "throes".
2012-09-20 11:30:33 PM
1 votes:
FTFA: "Satan runs across the world with his doubt and with his untruths and what have you and one of the untruths out there that is driven is that people of faith should not be involved in the public arena,"

I'm a person of faith myself and I think that's just not right. It's not that people of faith shouldn't be involved in the public arena. They should. America's supposed to be about democracy. However, the problem comes in when people of faith want to impose their faith on people that don't believe it. Such as this gay marriage issue.

I have no issue with your church being against gay marriage on a spiritual level. You have the right to decide what your church teaches. If you want to prevent gay people from getting married in your church, that's your prerogative. But when it's about civil marriage, which is supposed to be secular, I have an issue with that. Then it's you imposing your beliefs on people outside your faith. Which I think is wrong.

It's little different than if Jews (and possibly Muslims as well) used their political clout to make pork illegal for everyone because their religion forbids it.

If you want to blame the separation of church and state on someone, blame Jefferson...not Satan. It was his belief and idea. The phrase itself comes from him. He was not a Christian (in the religious sense), but a deist that thought Jesus had some great ideas.

He was a proponent of secularism. Why? Because no one religion should influence the government. (Or back then, it was more of an issue of no one Christian denomination should influence the government.)

If you want to be Christian, that's awesome! Be Christian. It's a free country. But you being Christian shouldn't affect your neighbor over there who is atheist. You shouldn't make laws that restrict his or her freedom to be an atheist. It's not fair to them. Nor should they be able to ban religion from the public discourse (if they were so inclined).

There's no reason why atheists and Christians can't learn to live together. Just keep the laws secular and fair so that neither the believer nor the disbeliever is prevented from living their life. Don't impose your beliefs or lack thereof upon your neighbor and things work out. Mutual respect. Treat others the way you'd want to be treated. Why is that so difficult?
2012-09-20 11:26:41 PM
1 votes:
"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion,-as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Mussulmen [Muslims],-and as the said States never entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mahometan [Muslim] nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Treaty of Tripoli, fark you christian nationers.
2012-09-20 11:17:56 PM
1 votes:
Can we all agree to stop voting for people like this?
2012-09-20 10:46:22 PM
1 votes:

Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.


Truth is none of them care what they believe, they'll believe whatever someone in authority tells them to. It's the worship of power and especially the power to compel others to believe.
2012-09-20 10:28:54 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: Weaver95: you cannot scrub the Jesus out of the Republicans no matter how hard you try

we could try? if we put Perry, Bachman, Akin, Santorum, and all their batshiat crazy friends on a boat to Fiji, I know that would be a good start.


What did Fiji ever do to you!?
2012-09-20 10:26:09 PM
1 votes:
When all else fails, blame Satan. It's the Xian way.
2012-09-20 10:04:05 PM
1 votes:
Wait a second here.

My understanding of the Founding Fathers (acquired solely from information provided by the hard right, of course) is that they were all devout Christians and intended for this to be a Christian nation under Biblical Law. Right?

But now Rick Perry says that what they wrote is Of The Devil.

Is this what those horrible, awful, no-good liberals call cognitive dissonance?
2012-09-20 09:44:03 PM
1 votes:
As a conservative Christian and a Texan,I have this to say to Perry and his ilk:
Morality can never be legislated.
Faith can never be legislated.
2012-09-20 09:33:57 PM
1 votes:
This
Perry said the separation of religious and civic institutions in the U.S. began with a "narrative" that first took root in the 1960s

has been bugging me all day. And now, I know why. Anyone want to guess what happened in the South in the 60s ?
2012-09-20 09:23:50 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: I still trip up over the concept of free will. we're supposed to have free will...but according to most christian sects, we have to be mindlessly obedient to a central religious authority or we won't get into heaven when we die. what's the point of free will then? seems needlessly sadistic.


Even better: Doesn't "God" have free will too? Didn't he "choose" to leave two relative "toddlers" (morally and intellectually speaking,) alone with an agent of then devil? Who let the Serpent into Paradise? At best, "God" is nothing better than a negligent parent. At worst, an abusive, negligent parent, for when he discovered the results of his neglect, he banished them from Paradise, as well as all of their descendants as well. So, not only an abusive, negligent parent, but a vain, irresponsible, petty, abusive, negligent parent.

Personally, I expect more from a deity that desires my love and worship. These aren't the actions of a kind and loving god, they're the actions of an office temp with a bad attitude.

George was right.
2012-09-20 09:23:30 PM
1 votes:
What happens when the denomination of the elected official changes? There are so many differences between the doctrine of the denominations. Perry mistakenly overestimates the evangelical demographic. What would he do if a tight-asses church of christer bans dancing and musical instruments and wine communion(they prefer grape juice.) That would really piss off the catholics and lutherans, who love to party down.

Pentecostals will be opening government run faith healing clinics where epileptics and drug users are exorcised of their demons. This is going to be very offensive to the Mormons, who will ban smoking, coffee and red bull. Baptists themselves have everything from the footwashing to the spirit filled and those two groups don't agree on much of anything either, except that everyone needs a good dunking.

What if your evangelical raised child gets an episcopal teacher? It will be anarchy, religious wars and total mayhem. This is why I oppose separation of church and state, it would be freaking hilarious to witness the total meltdown.
2012-09-20 09:17:57 PM
1 votes:
"We have a biblical responsibility to be involved in the public arena proclaiming God's truth."

I have a responsibility to Jesus, Socrates, Muhammad, Confucius, Newton, Alexander, and Budda--along with every other great scientist and philosopher in human history and everyday heroes who have fought through adversity to bring a net gain to our civilization--to help ensure in my lifetime that a short-sighted, bigoted, literal-bible-thumping moron never becomes POTUS.
2012-09-20 09:16:13 PM
1 votes:
Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) shared his thoughts

That was unwise. He doesn't have enough to spare and needs all his thoughts for himself.
2012-09-20 09:15:13 PM
1 votes:
Somacandra: Statism exists in a variety of ideological flavors. Its not a religion itself though--religions have rituals. Specific nationalisms on the other hand are quite religious. American civil religion has its sacred scriptures (Const, DOI), its rituals (voting, pledge of allegiance) and its mythic narrative it convinces itself its about (twirling, ever-twirling towards freedom and progress).

semantics I say. What is the difference between fanaticism for the church or the state?

EatTheWorld:
Weaver95: while that's an interesting side discussion, it's not really all that relevant to THIS conversation...which is about a key member of the Republican party who's pretty open about his wish to turn the USA into a theocratic regime.

Oh forbid me to change topics? I see church up there with the blue fox on a red ball.... And Rick Perry, fark him, he lost miserably. Pathetically. And deserved to do so. Liberals love government, can't you admit that?


No, we can't "admit that" because it's stupid. I am a liberal. I live in the real world. Sometimes, over the course of history government has been necessary to secure life and liberties against a harsh reality. Period. Real world concerns. Sometimes, a lack of an effective state is a drawback to survival and freedom. Where and when, is open to plenty of debate, but liberals and "statists" in general are generally willing to have that debate. Find me a liberal who doesn't realize that government power can be abused.

Are there SOME liberals for whom government replaces religion, or who are fanatics in the same sense that religious theocrats are fanatics? I suppose it's possible, but I've never met one in my life, except in the delusional dogshiat comments posted by pathetic idiots like yourself, who seem to see yourselves as so far above the common lot of humanity.

But you know what DOES sound very religious? When idiots run around talking about that "liberal" cult of government, acting as if government has become an idol or a god figure, when it is in reality only a satan figure for smart, insightful, totally non-sheeple folks like you....LOL.
2012-09-20 09:09:09 PM
1 votes:

umad:
I'm not an idiot. I know their vote affects me. I just don't care which or how many gods they are basing that vote on. All religions and forms of 'spirituality' is equally retarded. I wish all of you would pull your heads out of your asses.


I love this attitude. 'all you people are assholes for demanding that I follow your belief system...so i'm going to demand that you follow MY belief system or I'll call you stupid!'

you might want to take a step back and reconsider your worldview. while I certainly don't agree with atheists (I think *something* is out there), I wholeheartedly agree that atheists have a right to exist, hold public office and generally live their lives as they see fit without interference from anyone over their non-beliefs. All most people want is the same sort of consideration in return....and that includes telling snotty atheists to STFU about how superior they are over anyone who believes in a god (or gods).
2012-09-20 09:03:57 PM
1 votes:

Jim_Tressel's_O-Face: Weaver95: it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.

Over the summer, the local branch of Baptists ran a sign outside their church saying 'you can't stumble if you're on your knees.' I thought it was rather telling.


I still trip up over the concept of free will. we're supposed to have free will...but according to most christian sects, we have to be mindlessly obedient to a central religious authority or we won't get into heaven when we die. what's the point of free will then? seems needlessly sadistic.
2012-09-20 09:03:22 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: Religious freedom or lack of one at all is just as much a cornerstone of our nation as is free speech or the 2nd. The bible thumpers are killing republicans.

Rick Perry leaves one to thank god for satan... goddamnit you moron you are not helping.


The worst/best part is that we have MANY perfect examples of what the US would look like if these people got their way and were able to push their religion via the state. The islamic world is a poster child for why a free society must have freedom of and from religion.

You know what might work?? Trying to convince more of these wackjobs to bring the Word of Jesus to the islamic world!!! "Please, they are praying on saturday and dont believe in the trinity!!! it is your duty to save them!!!"
2012-09-20 09:01:07 PM
1 votes:

alienated: FlashHarry: what an epic moron

At least he is a consistent one...

"We have a biblical responsibility to be involved in the public arena proclaiming God's truth."

And when thou pray, thou shall not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in
the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
But thou, when thou pray, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret...
[Matthew 6:6 & 7]


Not to mention the first person I'm aware of that articulated the concept of separation of church and state was a guy named Jesus of Nazareth
Mark 12:17
""Well, then," Jesus said, "give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar, and give to God what belongs to God." His reply completely amazed them."
2012-09-20 09:01:01 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.


Over the summer, the local branch of Baptists ran a sign outside their church saying 'you can't stumble if you're on your knees.' I thought it was rather telling.
2012-09-20 08:58:39 PM
1 votes:

God-is-a-Taco:
Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.


it's interesting that one of the defining myths of Judeo-Christian identity is that 'rebellion against authority' is considered 'evil'.
2012-09-20 08:56:52 PM
1 votes:

God-is-a-Taco: Weaver95:
for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).

I've been reading too many political threads. My brain first registered this as "job creator". 
The "Minor God rebelling against Major God(s)" is one of my favorite stories in myths, and as I said in another Satan/Lucifer thread I see most of Christian myths as not-so-subtle rip-offs of Greek (Roman) mythology.

Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.


Well, Lucifer means "Light Bringer".
2012-09-20 08:56:00 PM
1 votes:
So your god isn't the master of his domain? Why do you call him God?
2012-09-20 08:54:43 PM
1 votes:

yourmomlovestetris: Silly Jesus: Being religious should automatically disqualify one from holding public office.

Oh? And how would you define "religious?" What if someone holds onto a socio-political idoloegy which functions just like a religion but doesn't involve the worship of a god? I know atheists who firmly believe that certains stripes of radical feminism, Marxism and environmentalism to be defacto religions in and of themselves. (Involving something resembling Original Sin [patriarchy, pollution], and the belief that one can attain a heavenly utopia on earth just by observing certain rules and behaviors. And believing that it's right to force people into adopting the way of life THEY believe is best for everybody.) One doesn't have to believe in a god to hold irrational, emotion-based beliefs. Or to be a menace to free people everywhere.


http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/religion

a set of beliefs concerning the cause, nature, and purpose of the universe, especially when considered as the creation of a superhuman agency or agencies, usually involving devotional and ritual observances, and often containing a moral code governing the conduct of human affairs.

feminism, marxism, and enviornmentalism do not qualify.

You're confusing religious vies with social / political ones. also i'm not sure Christianity or any other religion aims at "a heavenly utopia on earth."
2012-09-20 08:46:36 PM
1 votes:
Thomas Jefferson is Satan?

People with views like this should not be allowed anywhere near levers of power.


Lost Thought 00: Beware of Apples, Governor. They're the Devil's Food.


No more apple pie? Are mom and baseball next?
2012-09-20 08:45:13 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: of course, "former GOP presidential frontrunner" also applies to certified batshiat crazies such as michelle bachmann, herman cain, newt gingrich, and rick santorum - pretty much "anyone but romney." and look who they ended up with....

the sad thing is, jon huntsman would be ahead right now if he had gotten the GOP nom.


True, but the current GOP won't choose anybody in the primaries who has a legitimate chance in the general election. The primaries are about pandering to the extremists, a race to the far-right and to appear as ideologically pure as possible, followed by a sprint back to the center to convince the American mainstream, while trying to distance themselves from everything they said and did during the primaries, on top of having to take a far-right VP nominee to keep the hardcore followers satisfied after the nominee goes to the center.

The 2008 and 2012 elections have followed this cycle, and as long as it holds, the GOP won't have the White House anymore.
2012-09-20 08:44:56 PM
1 votes:
I recall with pleasure the day that this asshole's "Strong" video on Youtube got 100,000 dislikes within 12 hours of it being posted. Fark was a part of that. Good times.

I see that it now has over 770,000 dislikes.

Link

For those who don't want to click on the link, here's the text of his political ad:

I'm not ashamed to admit that I'm a Christian, but you don't need to be in the pew every Sunday to know there's something wrong in this country when gays can serve openly in the military but our kids can't openly celebrate Christmas or pray in school.

As President, I'll end Obama's war on religion. And I'll fight against liberal attacks on our religious heritage.

Faith made America strong. It can make her strong again.

I'm Rick Perry and I approve this message


770k dislikes. Nobody likes you, Rick, you stupid coont. STFU, GTFO, and DIAF.
2012-09-20 08:40:45 PM
1 votes:

AssAsInAssassin: FlashHarry: Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.

no shiat: "or prohibit the free exercise thereof."

I hope you're not serious, but on the off chance that you are...

Do you understand how establishing state religion is a violation of every other religion in the country?

Let's say Catholics get to call the shots, No meat on Fridays, mandatory Mass, legal homosexual child rape...

How is that, in any sense, "free exercise of religion?"


It isn't, which juuuust maybe is the reason he posted what he did.
2012-09-20 08:35:07 PM
1 votes:
blog.planetpreterist.com
2012-09-20 08:34:23 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: EatTheWorld: semantics I say. What is the difference between fanaticism for the church or the state?



The state represents reality and the church doesn't.
2012-09-20 08:32:29 PM
1 votes:
Exactly what I would expect the antichrist to say.
2012-09-20 08:31:06 PM
1 votes:

FlashHarry: Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.

no shiat: "or prohibit the free exercise thereof."


I hope you're not serious, but on the off chance that you are...

Do you understand how establishing state religion is a violation of every other religion in the country?

Let's say Catholics get to call the shots, No meat on Fridays, mandatory Mass, legal homosexual child rape...

How is that, in any sense, "free exercise of religion?"
2012-09-20 08:29:21 PM
1 votes:
There are some great comments at the foot of the article too.

Just to repeat a few of the ideas from those, for folks who might not have bothered to read them:

I wondered how the Republicans figured Mitt Romney is the best they can manage, then you read an article like this and understand how that happened.

He's afraid of Sharia Law, which comes from someone else's bible, but he has no problem doing the same thing to Americans. And, on that topic, I'm sure we all agree that this approach has really worked well in the Middle East.

His comments don't offer much explanation as to why God repeatedly fails to intervene in elections, including his own primaries, and actually therefore suggest that Perry agrees God wanted Obama elected in 2008.
2012-09-20 08:28:35 PM
1 votes:
I'll bet if you pointed out to ol' Rick that the very same sentiments of being a "soldier" or "warrior" for his religion are the same as radical Muslims, he'd have a conniption and fart kittens.

/I tell ya, some people's kids...
2012-09-20 08:23:23 PM
1 votes:

Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.


Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity. They do believe in fairy tales after all.
2012-09-20 08:21:14 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: Weaver95: while that's an interesting side discussion, it's not really all that relevant to THIS conversation...which is about a key member of the Republican party who's pretty open about his wish to turn the USA into a theocratic regime.

Oh forbid me to change topics? I see church up there with the blue fox on a red ball.... And Rick Perry, fark him, he lost miserably. Pathetically. And deserved to do so. Liberals love government, can't you admit that?


i'm wondering why you seem so desperate to change the subject....
2012-09-20 07:39:05 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: couldn't we say a government that cradles us from outside the womb to tomb...To me that is a religion to the state. When the government has all that control on your food, health and money, they control you.


Statism exists in a variety of ideological flavors. Its not a religion itself though--religions have rituals. Specific nationalisms on the other hand are quite religious. American civil religion has its sacred scriptures (Const, DOI), its rituals (voting, pledge of allegiance) and its mythic narrative it convinces itself its about (twirling, ever-twirling towards freedom and progress).
2012-09-20 07:34:13 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: And it seems clear that is the way democrats want it. Therefore the liberal religion is born.


You're serious, aren't you.
2012-09-20 07:32:00 PM
1 votes:
* EDIT: um some of those above are not losers in their local areas, but nationally rejected. Hence they need to be voted out.
I am full of beer. sorry.
2012-09-20 07:20:21 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: you cannot scrub the Jesus out of the Republicans no matter how hard you try


we could try? if we put Perry, Bachman, Akin, Santorum, and all their batshiat crazy friends on a boat to Fiji, I know that would be a good start. Thank god all of them are electoral loosers, so keep that in mind please. I mean people need to vote idiots like this out. Republicanism can not let this stand. You can not be for a republic and a theocracy at the same time. Oh you can be parts of our nation, but you must teach Jesus and dinosaurs. Or satan and what again Rick?

Kazan: EatTheWorld: To me that is a religion to the state.

yeah thinking that we as a people (that is through government) should help people in tough situations out, because that is good for all of us, is totally worshipping government

*rolleyes*.


and ya, if they NEED the government for all that in perpetuity, then them voting to cut that net will never happen. And it seems clear that is the way democrats want it. Therefore the liberal religion is born.
2012-09-20 06:53:12 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: To me that is a religion to the state.


yeah thinking that we as a people (that is through government) should help people in tough situations out, because that is good for all of us, is totally worshipping government

*rolleyes*.
2012-09-20 06:45:51 PM
1 votes:

Mugato: Satan really gets a bad rap. Unlike God, there's nothing in the Bible about Satan committing genocide or killing children. All he's really accused of is hiding fossils and giving an apple to a naked chick.


Mug you never disappoint me.
2012-09-20 06:29:32 PM
1 votes:

AdolfOliverPanties:

Religion sucks. Government sucks. Together they make a ultra-vortex of suck. Imagine if you will, a musical duet of Rebecca Black and Creed.

It is that level of suck.


I laughed SO HARD.
2012-09-20 06:23:38 PM
1 votes:

EatTheWorld: Weaver95: Theocracy is bad. I don't care what god you worship (or don't worship), any theocratic government is bad. I won't vote for it, and in fact i'll fight against it. the Founding Fathers were very smart folks. they knew that a theocratic form of government was a terrible idea, and took steps to make sure the US government wasn't infected by a state sponsored religion.

I agree. But just for funs sake, couldn't we say a government that cradles us from outside the womb to tomb, with topside government health care, food stamps, EIC, retirement, you know, kinda of like all of our real need? health, food, money, and oldfart worry free. Not that I'm saying government is good at any of these things, but they try, and mean well. To me that is a religion to the state. When the government has all that control on your food, health and money, they control you. Worse than religion actually.


Religion sucks. Government sucks. Together they make a ultra-vortex of suck. Imagine if you will, a musical duet of Rebecca Black and Creed.

It is that level of suck.
2012-09-20 06:18:33 PM
1 votes:

Weaver95: Theocracy is bad. I don't care what god you worship (or don't worship), any theocratic government is bad. I won't vote for it, and in fact i'll fight against it. the Founding Fathers were very smart folks. they knew that a theocratic form of government was a terrible idea, and took steps to make sure the US government wasn't infected by a state sponsored religion.


I agree. But just for funs sake, couldn't we say a government that cradles us from outside the womb to tomb, with topside government health care, food stamps, EIC, retirement, you know, kinda of like all of our real need? health, food, money, and oldfart worry free. Not that I'm saying government is good at any of these things, but they try, and mean well. To me that is a religion to the state. When the government has all that control on your food, health and money, they control you. Worse than religion actually.
2012-09-20 05:55:31 PM
1 votes:
What temptation might look like.

www.pensitoreview.com
2012-09-20 05:49:53 PM
1 votes:
I don't think I can put it any better than user "webcelt" in TFC: Sometimes I wonder how the Republicans could pick so lousy a candidate as Romney, and then one of the primary losers speaks up and I figure it out.
2012-09-20 05:44:51 PM
1 votes:
Does Rick Perry believe in Voodoo dolls, Ouija boards, Tarot Cards, and other nonsense?
2012-09-20 05:44:36 PM
1 votes:

impaler: Perry said the separation of religious and civic institutions in the U.S. began with a "narrative" that first took root in the 1960s.

"Somehow or another there's this, ya know, steel wall, this iron curtain or whatever you want to call it between the church and people of faith and this separation of church and state is just false on its face,"

I think someone's history book has a few pages stuck together.


It goes back even further, but really took off when the Irish showed up.

We had Jefferson's words, but something about the huge influx of Catholics scared the shiat out of the Protestants, so they turned to the Establishment clause to keep the Catholics and by extension the Pope out of things.
2012-09-20 05:41:47 PM
1 votes:
"The Tooth Fairy flies across the world with her money and teeth and what have you and one of the untruths out there that is driven is that children can try to stay awake to see her.," Perry said during the call on Tuesday
2012-09-20 05:29:50 PM
1 votes:

Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.


I don't think they believe what they say, for the most part. They simply say something to pander to their base and to score points. The sad part is when their supporters actually believe them and then push for those changes. I'm reminded of A HandMaiden's Tale and the lavish parties they threw, all while forcing everyone to live a rigid conservative lifestyle.
2012-09-20 05:18:45 PM
1 votes:
s10.postimage.org
2012-09-20 04:57:22 PM
1 votes:
"Satan runs across the world with his doubt and with his untruths and what have you and one of the untruths out there that is driven is that people of faith should not be involved in the public arena," Perry said during the call on Tuesday

What? Who said that? You do know that, "don not make laws based strictly off religious opinion," is a far cry from, "people of faith should not be involved in the public arena"? Wait. ...not make laws... religious == faith... not... in.. public arena. Close enough. Basic reading comprehension be damned.
2012-09-20 04:48:50 PM
1 votes:

Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.


no shiat: "or prohibit the free exercise thereof."
2012-09-20 04:38:41 PM
1 votes:

Blues_X: He needs a dick punch.


It's his favorite beverage.
 
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