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(Talking Points Memo)   Former GOP presidential frontrunner Rick Perry blames the separation of church and state on Satan   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 291
    More: Asinine, Rick Perry, Satans, GOP, falsehoods, frontrunners  
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7756 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Sep 2012 at 8:14 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-21 12:37:06 AM  
Weren't the Protestants were quite concerned about the separation of church and state when JFK was running for President?

I'm sure Justice Scalia can channel the Founding Fathers thoughts about that too.
 
2012-09-21 12:37:07 AM  

MrHappyRotter: To err is human, but Rick Perry is asinine.


You should have 'verbed' Rick Perry.

To err is human, to Rick Perry is asinine.
 
2012-09-21 12:40:32 AM  

Minor Catastrophe: Weren't the Protestants were quite concerned about the separation of church and state when JFK was running for President?

I'm sure Justice Scalia can channel the Founding Fathers thoughts about that too.


Yep. Lived in that time. How could we elect a Catholic who got orders from the Pope?
 
2012-09-21 12:51:16 AM  

thisisyourbrainonFark: What temptation might look like.

[www.pensitoreview.com image 550x344]


Just curious, why do American politicians have to eat sausages? Is it the same as having to wear a flag lapel pin? Wouldn't it make more sense to eat a hamburger?
 
2012-09-21 01:06:31 AM  

sethen320: He's what we call "a slow learner" and we do what we can to make sure he's happy here. Unfortunately sometimes he speaks...and well, we don't really pay much attention to him and neither should you, bless his heart.


We need a real tea party. Where anytime Perry opens his mouth, a fat guy in chaps drops his baubles in before Rick gets more than a few words out.
 
2012-09-21 01:12:09 AM  

TheVeryDeadIanMartin: thisisyourbrainonFark: What temptation might look like.

[www.pensitoreview.com image 550x344]

Just curious, why do American politicians have to eat sausages? Is it the same as having to wear a flag lapel pin? Wouldn't it make more sense to eat a hamburger?


Sausage, Hamburger. Both tributes to our German heritage.
 
2012-09-21 01:15:43 AM  

umad: brukmann: umad: brukmann: LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc:
This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome

'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.

I think you mean only *u's* 'it's'

Hey your welcome

I think you mean *you're* welcome.

Hey you're welcome

ok. I can't tell who is farking around and who is being serious here anymore.


To make matters more confusing, everyone seems to be ignoring the point that it's not death "throws" it's death "throes".
 
2012-09-21 01:20:25 AM  

Philbb: umad: brukmann: umad: brukmann: LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc:
This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome

'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.

I think you mean only *u's* 'it's'

Hey your welcome

I think you mean *you're* welcome.

Hey you're welcome

ok. I can't tell who is farking around and who is being serious here anymore.

To make matters more confusing, everyone seems to be ignoring the point that it's not death "throws" it's death "throes".


I already apologized. Up thread.
 
2012-09-21 01:21:00 AM  

TheVeryDeadIanMartin: thisisyourbrainonFark: What temptation might look like.

[www.pensitoreview.com image 550x344]

Just curious, why do American politicians have to eat sausages? Is it the same as having to wear a flag lapel pin? Wouldn't it make more sense to eat a hamburger?


For the GOP, it's called a Banger in the Mouth. It's an acceptable way to repress their deepest desires of chewing on meat.

/ Mrs Fingerbottom
// err, Featherbottom.
/// I've made a huge mistake.
 
2012-09-21 01:34:26 AM  

Farker Soze: simplicimus: Keizer_Ghidorah: So, this God guy, he creates all of existence in 6 days. And he creates all loving things from the dust of the earth except for the human woman, which for some reason he takes a rib from man and makes her from it. Sounds like that's saying women are the property of men and are lesser beings, since they were made from existing man and not from the dust (and before he created woman God, the all-knowing one, had to ask why man was so sad and lonely as he walked alone among creatures who had male and female)...
Cool, except that Eve was woman 2.0. Version 1.0 was Lilith..

Eve was 3.0. 2 was an unnamed creation, created from inside out, first bones, then organs, muscles, and finally skin. Adam watched and was revolted and wouldn't touch her. So God uncreated her into oblivion, put him to sleep this time and made Eve from his rib.


So, Eve ME? Eve 1.5?
 
2012-09-21 01:42:47 AM  
I blame Rick Perry on Satan.
 
2012-09-21 02:42:14 AM  
They don't make a violin small enough.....
 
2012-09-21 02:49:59 AM  
Is Rick Perry developmentally disabled?
 
2012-09-21 03:00:55 AM  

Harry_Seldon: Is Rick Perry developmentally disabled?


That's what I thought when I saw that very unfortunate clip from the debate in the primaries when he completely forgot the contents of his all-important list of agencies he planned to scrap. The other candidates, helpfully suggesting options, Perry's brain completely failing to work.
 
2012-09-21 03:03:04 AM  
Actually, the real lie from Satan is that Satan has power. The conservative christian sect worships Satan because it absolves them from wrongdoing. After all, what better excuse does one have for sin than "Satan made me do it?" I've sinned quite often, and Satan has had little to do with it. At the risk of being an asshole, I'd like to quote Tyler Perry, "I can do bad all by myself." I don't need Satan to sin.

The main objective of conservative christians (notice how I've twice used the lowercase) is a feeling of moral superiority over their fellow human beings. They want to ride their high horse off into the sunset. They want to believe that saying Jesus makes them better than the rest of us.
 
2012-09-21 03:06:06 AM  

pion: Actually, the real lie from Satan is that Satan has power. The conservative christian sect worships Satan because it absolves them from wrongdoing. After all, what better excuse does one have for sin than "Satan made me do it?" I've sinned quite often, and Satan has had little to do with it. At the risk of being an asshole, I'd like to quote Tyler Perry, "I can do bad all by myself." I don't need Satan to sin.

The main objective of conservative christians (notice how I've twice used the lowercase) is a feeling of moral superiority over their fellow human beings. They want to ride their high horse off into the sunset. They want to believe that saying Jesus makes them better than the rest of us.


Although now a very satisfied atheist, I attended a very moderate Anglican (aka Episcopalian) church in my youth. They were very non-judgemental, welcomed gay folks etc. Nice place. They totally rejected the existance of hell and satan.
 
2012-09-21 04:18:38 AM  

simplicimus: I already apologized. Up thread.


What the heck to you want from me?! I'm doing my best to pay attention to the thread, I can't handle the added stress of having to refresh before I post!
 
2012-09-21 04:42:29 AM  

Aussie_As: pion: Actually, the real lie from Satan is that Satan has power. The conservative christian sect worships Satan because it absolves them from wrongdoing. After all, what better excuse does one have for sin than "Satan made me do it?" I've sinned quite often, and Satan has had little to do with it. At the risk of being an asshole, I'd like to quote Tyler Perry, "I can do bad all by myself." I don't need Satan to sin.

The main objective of conservative christians (notice how I've twice used the lowercase) is a feeling of moral superiority over their fellow human beings. They want to ride their high horse off into the sunset. They want to believe that saying Jesus makes them better than the rest of us.

Although now a very satisfied atheist, I attended a very moderate Anglican (aka Episcopalian) church in my youth. They were very non-judgemental, welcomed gay folks etc. Nice place. They totally rejected the existance of hell and satan.


Same for me with a Catholic church back in the day. They also rejected the idea of Hell and Satan. I occasionally drop by there now and then to say hi. Good peeps.

While I'm also an atheist, sometimes I think some atheists forget that many religious people can be very reasonable. That, or I just read too much into the amount of people who troll here, and most atheists realize that and I get the impression they don't because of bored Farkers. :D
 
2012-09-21 07:29:10 AM  

Gordon Bennett: Silly Jesus: Being religious should automatically disqualify one from holding public office.

Rubbish. "Being religious" on its own doesn't mean a thing in regards to a person's character or what could be expected of him or her in office. If someone openly supports a theocracy then yes, I would certainly agree that that person is unsuitable to serve in a secular government but to extend that to anyone with religious beliefs at all is monstrous and absurd.

There are all sorts of religious people, many of whom are perfectly capable of separating their private, personal beliefs from their public duty. I am reminded of an interview that I once read with Geraldine Ferraro in which she was asked why she, as a devout Catholic who personally believes that abortion is morally wrong consistently voted pro-choice.

Her answer was that the district who elected her to office was strongly pro-choice, and it was her job as their representative to vote their interests above her own. It's rather unfortunate that integrity in politics has become so unheard of that any example of it beggars belief, but it can exist and you don't have to be an atheist to have it.

/atheist. not that it should matter to the discussion


I am requoting you for emphasis, and to add that for me if someone is ordained clergy (Priest,
Minister, Rabbi, Imam, etc) then they should be disqualified for holding office because they have
already sworn an oath to a uphold a creed that would (if they are a good clergyperson) supersede
their oath of office. As the bible said, you cannot serve 2 masters, and if someone is in government
I want them to put their duties to the people they govern above their duties as a sectarian.

I have no problem with a person's religion informing the excercise of their moral choices; I have
a big problem with a person using their religion to inform MY moral choices.
 
2012-09-21 09:07:42 AM  

fusillade762: Thomas Jefferson is Satan?

People with views like this should not be allowed anywhere near levers of power sharp objects.


FTFY
 
2012-09-21 09:47:02 AM  

namatad: But it is crystal clear that the tards who claim to know the mind of god are delusional.


*raises hand* I... I know the Mind of God, at least partially.

It's writ large all across the universe. In every event which we perceive, the Mind (perhaps the Word) is there, obvious to all who can see.

You see, 2+2 is ALWAYS 4. The cube root of 27 is ALWAYS 3. Without fail. Every time. EVERY TIME. If omnipotence exists, it most certainly has dictated that the ruleset we know as mathematics is trump, irresistible in effect and omniscient in its ability to account for every related variable.

Math is the OS of reality. That HAS to be the will of any existing God.

Now that you know my Canon, and I have told you that I know (at least partially) the mind of God do you think I should be denigrated as a fool for my religious beliefs?
 
2012-09-21 11:17:58 AM  

vernonFL: Does Rick Perry believe in Voodoo dolls, Ouija boards, Tarot Cards, and other nonsense?


No, because that's Vodun and Neo-Paganism, the second of which is my religion, so kindly STFU.

/You just managed to insult two religions by aiming at one that both groups have a long history of turmoil with. That's actually pretty frickin' impressive.
//Seriously, what the hell made you think Vodun or Neo-Paganism supports separation of church and state?
 
2012-09-21 11:35:13 AM  

neomunk: namatad: But it is crystal clear that the tards who claim to know the mind of god are delusional.

*raises hand* I... I know the Mind of God, at least partially.

It's writ large all across the universe. In every event which we perceive, the Mind (perhaps the Word) is there, obvious to all who can see.

You see, 2+2 is ALWAYS 4. The cube root of 27 is ALWAYS 3. Without fail. Every time. EVERY TIME. If omnipotence exists, it most certainly has dictated that the ruleset we know as mathematics is trump, irresistible in effect and omniscient in its ability to account for every related variable.



Wait 'til God starts dicking with floating point numbers.
 
2012-09-21 11:45:02 AM  
what's happened to his neck??
 
2012-09-21 12:15:11 PM  

neomunk: namatad: But it is crystal clear that the tards who claim to know the mind of god are delusional.

*raises hand* I... I know the Mind of God, at least partially.

It's writ large all across the universe. In every event which we perceive, the Mind (perhaps the Word) is there, obvious to all who can see.

You see, 2+2 is ALWAYS 4. The cube root of 27 is ALWAYS 3. Without fail. Every time. EVERY TIME. If omnipotence exists, it most certainly has dictated that the ruleset we know as mathematics is trump, irresistible in effect and omniscient in its ability to account for every related variable.

Math is the OS of reality. That HAS to be the will of any existing God.

Now that you know my Canon, and I have told you that I know (at least partially) the mind of God do you think I should be denigrated as a fool for my religious beliefs?


I do. You think you are making an unassailable argument because you busted out MATH!(trumpet fanfare!) but all you are really doing is pointing out something that exists, making an assumption that god exists, and then saying that the thing which exists is there by the will of god and thus you partially know his will.

You could replace MATH (trumpet fanfare!) with any other observable reality and your argument would be no different. Imagine the most different reality from what we have, one in which even math doesn't fit the magic you attribute to it. The existence of a constant isn't proof of god. You are saying "how could a constant come from nothing?" is no different than "how could the universe come from nothing without god?" and is furthermore no different than "was god always here, or did god come from nothing"? It's the same philosophically impossible to answer question, you've just skipped thinking about it by saying "all that tough to think about stuff is god. Done and done, what's for dinner?"
 
2012-09-21 12:39:14 PM  

Smackledorfer: neomunk: namatad: But it is crystal clear that the tards who claim to know the mind of god are delusional.

*raises hand* I... I know the Mind of God, at least partially.

It's writ large all across the universe. In every event which we perceive, the Mind (perhaps the Word) is there, obvious to all who can see.

You see, 2+2 is ALWAYS 4. The cube root of 27 is ALWAYS 3. Without fail. Every time. EVERY TIME. If omnipotence exists, it most certainly has dictated that the ruleset we know as mathematics is trump, irresistible in effect and omniscient in its ability to account for every related variable.

Math is the OS of reality. That HAS to be the will of any existing God.

Now that you know my Canon, and I have told you that I know (at least partially) the mind of God do you think I should be denigrated as a fool for my religious beliefs?

I do. You think you are making an unassailable argument because you busted out MATH!(trumpet fanfare!) but all you are really doing is pointing out something that exists, making an assumption that god exists, and then saying that the thing which exists is there by the will of god and thus you partially know his will.

You could replace MATH (trumpet fanfare!) with any other observable reality and your argument would be no different. Imagine the most different reality from what we have, one in which even math doesn't fit the magic you attribute to it. The existence of a constant isn't proof of god. You are saying "how could a constant come from nothing?" is no different than "how could the universe come from nothing without god?" and is furthermore no different than "was god always here, or did god come from nothing"? It's the same philosophically impossible to answer question, you've just skipped thinking about it by saying "all that tough to think about stuff is god. Done and done, what's for dinner?"


You're REALLY wanting me to believe something that I didn't say I did. The conversation I jumped into was, as I saw it, something like "I don't have problems when people believe in God, I have problems when people say they know what God thinks". I responded in a manor to suggest that if there IS in omnipotent being then at least one aspect of that beings thought process could be known. I never claimed that math was proof of God. I don't believe math IS proof of God, but I do believe that it disproves certain talking points about Him/Her/It.

Do you understand that?

Also, I take issue with the "(trumpet fanfare!)" little cracks you issued. Are you so farking jaded as to not be able to properly attribute Greatness and indeed Perfection when you see it without having to show how supercool you are by showing contempt for that very Perfection? The ONLY true Perfection as yet found in all of reality? Do you know of anything better deserving of the fanfare and trumpets you so snidely refer to?

So now that I've torn down that strawman for you, anything else this fool can help you with?
 
2012-09-21 01:53:30 PM  
And this guy is what passes off as a LEADER in your country? Holy shiat you guys are in trouble.
 
2012-09-21 02:00:14 PM  

Keizer_Ghidorah: So, this God guy, he creates all of existence in 6 days. [...]


Awesomesauce. Favorited.
 
2012-09-21 02:29:10 PM  

neomunk: You're REALLY wanting me to believe something that I didn't say I did. The conversation I jumped into was, as I saw it, something like "I don't have problems when people believe in God, I have problems when people say they know what God thinks". I responded in a manor to suggest that if there IS in omnipotent being then at least one aspect of that beings thought process could be known. I never claimed that math was proof of God. I don't believe math IS proof of God, but I do believe that it disproves certain talking points about Him/Her/It.

Do you understand that?

Also, I take issue with the "(trumpet fanfare!)" little cracks you issued. Are you so farking jaded as to not be able to properly attribute Greatness and indeed Perfection when you see it without having to show how supercool you are by showing contempt for that very Perfection? The ONLY true Perfection as yet found in all of reality? Do you know of anything better deserving of the fanfare and trumpets you so snidely refer to?

So now that I've torn down that strawman for you, anything else this fool can help you with?


All I did was say that you could replace "math" in your post, with any other observable reality.

neomunk: Math is the OS of reality. That HAS to be the will of any existing God.


[Blank] exists. God made everything, therefore [blank] has to be the will of any existing god. Provided god is the all knowing and all powerful creator of the universe, then everything that exists is his will. If he is not the all knowing and all powerful creator, then you cannot be sure that math is his will.

So yes, I put a fanfare after math, because you used it as though it were special. Math is certainly math, but it is not evidence of god anymore than a giraffe is. God is god, and he is as responsible for a giraffe as he is for math. You've proven that my fanfare was apt, as you then went on to jerk off to it for a paragraph, including random capitalization.

For a guy so in love with math, you certainly seem to have a poor grasp of basic logic.
 
2012-09-21 04:08:45 PM  

neomunk: namatad: But it is crystal clear that the tards who claim to know the mind of god are delusional.

*raises hand* I... I know the Mind of God, at least partially.

It's writ large all across the universe. In every event which we perceive, the Mind (perhaps the Word) is there, obvious to all who can see.

You see, 2+2 is ALWAYS 4. The cube root of 27 is ALWAYS 3. Without fail. Every time. EVERY TIME. If omnipotence exists, it most certainly has dictated that the ruleset we know as mathematics is trump, irresistible in effect and omniscient in its ability to account for every related variable.

Math is the OS of reality. That HAS to be the will of any existing God.

Now that you know my Canon, and I have told you that I know (at least partially) the mind of God do you think I should be denigrated as a fool for my religious beliefs?


I've seen this movie!

www.filmmakermagazine.com

"11:15, restate my assumptions: 1. Mathematics is the language of nature. 2. Everything around us can be represented and understood through numbers. 3. If you graph these numbers, patterns emerge. Therefore: There are patterns everywhere in nature."
 
2012-09-21 04:11:32 PM  
Texas Tag?
 
2012-09-21 04:16:39 PM  

Smackledorfer: So yes, I put a fanfare after math, because you used it as though it were special.


To be fair, math is kinda special, in that it can be (and is) used to actually describe the physical universe around us and all of its features and forces... It's not the same as talking about a "giraffe", as you said... It's talking about a fundamental abstract concept which can and does represent the entire universe... There's not really anything else you can point to that's quite the same...

Of course, it really has nothing to do with any "god", either... It's a man-made invention, and it works to describe the universe because we lowly humans figure out the proper formulae to make it do so... It's cool and all, but it's not god, or god's mind, or even "the OS of the universe"; it's just a really powerful abstract language we've developed...
 
2012-09-21 04:25:54 PM  

God-is-a-Taco: Weaver95:
for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).

I've been reading too many political threads. My brain first registered this as "job creator". 
The "Minor God rebelling against Major God(s)" is one of my favorite stories in myths, and as I said in another Satan/Lucifer thread I see most of Christian myths as not-so-subtle rip-offs of Greek (Roman) mythology.

Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.


Well, "Lucifer" means "light-bringer", and Prometheus brought mankind light in the form of fire - plus both were punished for showing mankind something being withheld by God/Zeus (the knowledge of fire, and the knowledge of good and evil).

Then there's the parallels between Pandora and Eve...
 
2012-09-21 04:38:52 PM  
i.imgur.com
 
2012-09-21 04:42:42 PM  

HAMMERTOE: Weaver95: I still trip up over the concept of free will. we're supposed to have free will...but according to most christian sects, we have to be mindlessly obedient to a central religious authority or we won't get into heaven when we die. what's the point of free will then? seems needlessly sadistic.

Even better: Doesn't "God" have free will too? Didn't he "choose" to leave two relative "toddlers" (morally and intellectually speaking,) alone with an agent of then devil? Who let the Serpent into Paradise? At best, "God" is nothing better than a negligent parent. At worst, an abusive, negligent parent, for when he discovered the results of his neglect, he banished them from Paradise, as well as all of their descendants as well. So, not only an abusive, negligent parent, but a vain, irresponsible, petty, abusive, negligent parent.

Personally, I expect more from a deity that desires my love and worship. These aren't the actions of a kind and loving god, they're the actions of an office temp with a bad attitude.

George was right.


Pretty much THAT. If God exists, then he's a major dick.

"Oh hey, Adam and Eve - not only am I punishing you for your sins, but I'm punishing your kids and their kids for your sins, even though that don't exist yet and had f*ck-all to do with disobeying me. Have fun with that toiling and painful childbirth thing! Bye"
 
2012-09-21 04:47:10 PM  

happydude45: This is pretty sweet

[weaselzippers.us image 455x614]


He misspelled "George W, Bush" as "Barack Obama".
 
2012-09-21 04:51:19 PM  

FuryOfFirestorm: God-is-a-Taco: Weaver95:
for what its worth, I don't think there IS 'one true god'. I think the pagans are closer to figuring it out - there's a bunch of gods and spirits and the spirit world is just as muddied as this world.

also, satan' (or lucifer if you'd prefer) seems to have been more of a job description and less of an actual rebellious angel (although there might have been more than a few of those kicking around).

I've been reading too many political threads. My brain first registered this as "job creator". 
The "Minor God rebelling against Major God(s)" is one of my favorite stories in myths, and as I said in another Satan/Lucifer thread I see most of Christian myths as not-so-subtle rip-offs of Greek (Roman) mythology.

Lucifer is right up there with Prometheus in my book. Hell, he's probably the same guy.

Well, "Lucifer" means "light-bringer", and Prometheus brought mankind light in the form of fire - plus both were punished for showing mankind something being withheld by God/Zeus (the knowledge of fire, and the knowledge of good and evil).

Then there's the parallels between Pandora and Eve...


Pandora has always intrigued me. Is hope the final curse?
 
2012-09-21 06:22:31 PM  

bmfderek: LobsterSausage: I'll bet if you pointed out to ol' Rick that the very same sentiments of being a "soldier" or "warrior" for his religion are the same as radical Muslims, he'd have a conniption and fart kittens.

/I tell ya, some people's kids...

Have you ever gone a week without a good rationalization?


blog.pawshpal.com
 
2012-09-21 06:27:24 PM  
The thing about a belief in Satan is it makes all the tough questions really easy.

Who's dog crapped on my lawn? Satan.
Who pissed in my shoe? Satan.
Who is responsible for this fiasco we call the GOP? Satan.

We believe in Satan and we never have to take responsibility for anything.
 
2012-09-21 07:00:47 PM  

Bucky Katt: I blame Rick Perry on Satan.


I blame Satan on Rick Perry.
 
2012-09-22 12:19:52 AM  

thamike: John Buck 41: Frontrunner?

[imgs.xkcd.com image 500x271]

Early on in the primaries, he was polling the highest. Then he forgot what the third thing was and started speaking in tongues.


I think it was his idea of bringing the troops back to Iraq to "complete the mission" that did him in. The day after he said that he got 1% in New Hampshire.
 
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