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(Talking Points Memo)   Former GOP presidential frontrunner Rick Perry blames the separation of church and state on Satan   (tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com) divider line 291
    More: Asinine, Rick Perry, Satans, GOP, falsehoods, frontrunners  
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7756 clicks; posted to Main » on 20 Sep 2012 at 8:14 PM (2 years ago)   |  Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook   more»



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2012-09-20 09:13:41 PM  
Satan. And the First Amendment.

Churches are competing power structure. The founders didn't want a competing power structure for their fledgling state. Hence, the First Amendment.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances." 

How many times are the words "Jesus" or "Christ" mentioned in the Declaration of Independence, Constitution or Bill Of Rights? Precisely zero. 

It's the first clause in the First Amendment. The founders weren't screwing around with this.
 
2012-09-20 09:14:15 PM  

Diogenes: The funniest thing about these jerks is that they don't realize (or deliberately choose not to, which is much worse) that the separation clause is there to protect them as much as it is to protect our form of governance. It's a two-way street.


The last girl I dated had this same misconception, I explained by the founding father's put it in, explaining what happened with the church of England and what happens when the government and religion is to intertwined.
 
2012-09-20 09:14:16 PM  

SnakeLee: Mugato:


.....

So, basically, Rick Perry needs to follow Glenn Beck's and Bill O'Reilly's thinking AND READ UP ON SOME FARKING HISTORY. Or he hates the founding fathers. I really don't care which, the guy is an embarrassment to conservatives. And liberals hate him. And he managed to win literally tens or hundreds of thousands of votes off Mitt Romney in the Primaries.

Yay Republicans!
 
2012-09-20 09:14:38 PM  

umad:
I'm not demanding that you do anything. I'm just not going to kiss your ass and treat you special because you are some kind of hipster when it comes to religion. Anybody that believes in anything without proof is a fool.


you sound no different than a religious fundie. you still demand that people follow YOUR belief system and look down on anyone who's different.
 
2012-09-20 09:15:13 PM  
Somacandra: Statism exists in a variety of ideological flavors. Its not a religion itself though--religions have rituals. Specific nationalisms on the other hand are quite religious. American civil religion has its sacred scriptures (Const, DOI), its rituals (voting, pledge of allegiance) and its mythic narrative it convinces itself its about (twirling, ever-twirling towards freedom and progress).

semantics I say. What is the difference between fanaticism for the church or the state?

EatTheWorld:
Weaver95: while that's an interesting side discussion, it's not really all that relevant to THIS conversation...which is about a key member of the Republican party who's pretty open about his wish to turn the USA into a theocratic regime.

Oh forbid me to change topics? I see church up there with the blue fox on a red ball.... And Rick Perry, fark him, he lost miserably. Pathetically. And deserved to do so. Liberals love government, can't you admit that?


No, we can't "admit that" because it's stupid. I am a liberal. I live in the real world. Sometimes, over the course of history government has been necessary to secure life and liberties against a harsh reality. Period. Real world concerns. Sometimes, a lack of an effective state is a drawback to survival and freedom. Where and when, is open to plenty of debate, but liberals and "statists" in general are generally willing to have that debate. Find me a liberal who doesn't realize that government power can be abused.

Are there SOME liberals for whom government replaces religion, or who are fanatics in the same sense that religious theocrats are fanatics? I suppose it's possible, but I've never met one in my life, except in the delusional dogshiat comments posted by pathetic idiots like yourself, who seem to see yourselves as so far above the common lot of humanity.

But you know what DOES sound very religious? When idiots run around talking about that "liberal" cult of government, acting as if government has become an idol or a god figure, when it is in reality only a satan figure for smart, insightful, totally non-sheeple folks like you....LOL.
 
2012-09-20 09:16:13 PM  
Texas Gov. Rick Perry (R) shared his thoughts

That was unwise. He doesn't have enough to spare and needs all his thoughts for himself.
 
2012-09-20 09:17:16 PM  

fusillade762: Well, Lucifer means "Light Bringer".

He's also sometimes called "Morning Star".


Reminds me of Lucifer from the Sandman series (gaiman)
 
2012-09-20 09:17:57 PM  
"We have a biblical responsibility to be involved in the public arena proclaiming God's truth."

I have a responsibility to Jesus, Socrates, Muhammad, Confucius, Newton, Alexander, and Budda--along with every other great scientist and philosopher in human history and everyday heroes who have fought through adversity to bring a net gain to our civilization--to help ensure in my lifetime that a short-sighted, bigoted, literal-bible-thumping moron never becomes POTUS.
 
2012-09-20 09:18:28 PM  

vernonFL: Does Rick Perry believe in Voodoo dolls, Ouija boards, Tarot Cards, and other nonsense?


You know what, in a way, he probably does. He probably believes those things are 'of the devil' or somesuch, and that they have demonic powers.

Or at least that's what he would say to rile up his followers.
 
2012-09-20 09:19:07 PM  
If Rick Perry's rhetoric were a food, he'd be licorice infused sauerkraut because it's only barely palatable if you're very, very high or unconscious.
 
2012-09-20 09:19:16 PM  

Weaver95: umad:
I'm not demanding that you do anything. I'm just not going to kiss your ass and treat you special because you are some kind of hipster when it comes to religion. Anybody that believes in anything without proof is a fool.

you sound no different than a religious fundie. you still demand that people follow YOUR belief system and look down on anyone who's different.


Again, I'm not demanding that you do anything. Believe anything you want. I won't deny believing that you are an idiot for those beliefs though. Are you pulling the "it's racist to point out racism" argument on me here?
 
2012-09-20 09:21:07 PM  

Thisbymaster: hurch of England


I doubt Perry has heard of this church or understands that America was founded in part by people wishing to worship free of religious persecution --- by Christians
 
2012-09-20 09:21:08 PM  

umad: Weaver95: umad:
I'm not an idiot. I know their vote affects me. I just don't care which or how many gods they are basing that vote on. All religions and forms of 'spirituality' is equally retarded. I wish all of you would pull your heads out of your asses.

I love this attitude. 'all you people are assholes for demanding that I follow your belief system...so i'm going to demand that you follow MY belief system or I'll call you stupid!'

I'm not demanding that you do anything. I'm just not going to kiss your ass and treat you special because you are some kind of hipster when it comes to religion. Anybody that believes in anything without proof is a fool.


Well, you know...that's just, like... your opinion, man
 
2012-09-20 09:21:38 PM  
This just in, Perey is an idiot.
 
2012-09-20 09:22:28 PM  

CygnusDarius: meat0918: Perry should also be reminded then that according to his Bible, all earthly authority derives from God.

Therefore, God chose Obama.

//Also, revolt is a sin just like witchcraft, so knock off the secession talk!

Can I use that one?.


Sure, I got it from here though Link
 
2012-09-20 09:23:30 PM  
What happens when the denomination of the elected official changes? There are so many differences between the doctrine of the denominations. Perry mistakenly overestimates the evangelical demographic. What would he do if a tight-asses church of christer bans dancing and musical instruments and wine communion(they prefer grape juice.) That would really piss off the catholics and lutherans, who love to party down.

Pentecostals will be opening government run faith healing clinics where epileptics and drug users are exorcised of their demons. This is going to be very offensive to the Mormons, who will ban smoking, coffee and red bull. Baptists themselves have everything from the footwashing to the spirit filled and those two groups don't agree on much of anything either, except that everyone needs a good dunking.

What if your evangelical raised child gets an episcopal teacher? It will be anarchy, religious wars and total mayhem. This is why I oppose separation of church and state, it would be freaking hilarious to witness the total meltdown.
 
2012-09-20 09:23:50 PM  

Weaver95: I still trip up over the concept of free will. we're supposed to have free will...but according to most christian sects, we have to be mindlessly obedient to a central religious authority or we won't get into heaven when we die. what's the point of free will then? seems needlessly sadistic.


Even better: Doesn't "God" have free will too? Didn't he "choose" to leave two relative "toddlers" (morally and intellectually speaking,) alone with an agent of then devil? Who let the Serpent into Paradise? At best, "God" is nothing better than a negligent parent. At worst, an abusive, negligent parent, for when he discovered the results of his neglect, he banished them from Paradise, as well as all of their descendants as well. So, not only an abusive, negligent parent, but a vain, irresponsible, petty, abusive, negligent parent.

Personally, I expect more from a deity that desires my love and worship. These aren't the actions of a kind and loving god, they're the actions of an office temp with a bad attitude.

George was right.
 
2012-09-20 09:24:13 PM  

namatad: fusillade762: Well, Lucifer means "Light Bringer".

He's also sometimes called "Morning Star".

Reminds me of Lucifer from the Sandman series (gaiman)


Good eye :)
 
2012-09-20 09:24:33 PM  

Weaver95: you sound no different than a religious fundie. you still demand that people follow YOUR belief system and look down on anyone who's different.


There is a sideways question concerning religion. At what point are "these" people delusional?
Take Scientology or LDS as perfect examples. These "religions" were created recently enough that we have pretty good evidence of there authorship and creation. We know WHO and WHEN.
Smith and LDS, either he made everything up or he was delusional. Period. Angels, magic decoder rings. When he decoded the book the second time it was different than the first time? Give me a break.
Scientology is even more delusional when you get into its creation.

/yes, we can leave out the (I think *something* is out there). there is no way to prove that there isnt. which isnt the same as that lack of proof being proof that there is something. So I can give you *something*. But it is crystal clear that the tards who claim to know the mind of god are delusional.
//ever notice that each new religion starts with "I am the FINAL PROPHET!!"
 
2012-09-20 09:24:57 PM  

CygnusDarius: meat0918: Perry should also be reminded then that according to his Bible, all earthly authority derives from God.

Therefore, God chose Obama.

//Also, revolt is a sin just like witchcraft, so knock off the secession talk!

Can I use that one?.


The Bible says a lot of things. It also says

Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

For every side there's an opposite side you can pick and choose depending on what day it is. That's the beauty of it.
 
2012-09-20 09:26:10 PM  

fusillade762: namatad: fusillade762: Well, Lucifer means "Light Bringer".

He's also sometimes called "Morning Star".

Reminds me of Lucifer from the Sandman series (gaiman)

Good eye :)


I THOUGHT that that was where it was from. But didnt want to guess and look stupid. HAHAHAHHA
Probably time to re-read those again. For Death, if no other reason. :D
 
2012-09-20 09:27:16 PM  

simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc: between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!

As an outside observer all I can conclude is that the republican party is going for the religious, jingoistic, nationalist moron vote this time around, and as it's the US it stands a slim chance of working...

This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.


I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome
 
2012-09-20 09:29:14 PM  
Interesting the way stuff from the Obama is awesome tab seems to be bleeding over more and more in the main tab. The poll numbers must be tight again.
 
2012-09-20 09:30:19 PM  

Lumpmoose: Jefferson


You should add to your armament with the Danbury Letter

To messers. Nehemiah Dodge, Ephraim Robbins, & Stephen S. Nelson, a committee of the Danbury Baptist association in the state of Connecticut.

Gentlemen

The affectionate sentiments of esteem and approbation which you are so good as to express towards me, on behalf of the Danbury Baptist association, give me the highest satisfaction. my duties dictate a faithful and zealous pursuit of the interests of my constituents, & in proportion as they are persuaded of my fidelity to those duties, the discharge of them becomes more and more pleasing.

Believing with you that religion is a matter which lies solely between Man & his God, that he owes account to none other for his faith or his worship, that the legitimate powers of government reach actions only, & not opinions, I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their legislature should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between Church & State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience, I shall see with sincere satisfaction the progress of those sentiments which tend to restore to man all his natural rights, convinced he has no natural right in opposition to his social duties.

I reciprocate your kind prayers for the protection & blessing of the common father and creator of man, and tender you for yourselves & your religious association, assurances of my high respect & esteem.

Th Jefferson
Jan. 1. 1802. 


Also, add to the arsenal George Washington's (yes, that Washington) letter to the Touro Synagogue It is now no more that toleration is spoken of as if it were the indulgence of one class of people that another enjoyed the exercise of their inherent natural rights, for, happily, the Government of the United States, which gives to bigotry no sanction, to persecution no assistance, requires only that they who live under its protection should demean themselves as good citizens in giving it on all occasions their effectual support.

It would be inconsistent with the frankness of my character not to avow that I am pleased with your favorable opinion of my administration and fervent wishes for my felicity.

May the children of the stock of Abraham who dwell in this land continue to merit and enjoy the good will of the other inhabitants-while every one shall sit in safety under his own vine and fig tree and there shall be none to make him afraid.


And the The Bloudy Tenent of Persecution for Cause Of Conscience by Roger Williams in 1644.

And then we come to Willam Penn's Charter: I doe hereby Grant and Declare that noe person or persons Inhabiting in this Province or Territories who shall Confesse and Acknowledge one Almighty God the Creator upholder and Ruler of the world and professe him or themselves Obliged to live quietly under the Civill Governement shall be in any case molested or prejudiced in his or theire person or Estate because of his or theire Conscientious perswasion or practice nor be compelled to frequent or mentaine any Religious Worship place or Ministry contrary to his or theire mind or doe or Suffer any other act or thing contrary to theire Religious perswasion

And then there is King Charles' Charter for Rhode Island

And whereas, in theire humble addresse, they have ffreely declared, that it is much on their hearts (if they may be permitted), to hold forth a livlie experiment, that a most flourishing civill state may stand and best bee maintained, and that among our English subjects. with a full libertie in religious concernements; and that true pietye rightly grounded upon gospell principles, will give the best and greatest security to sovereignetye, and will lay in the hearts of men the strongest obligations to true loyaltye: Now know bee, that wee beinge willinge to encourage the hopefull undertakeinge of oure sayd lovall and loveinge subjects, and to secure them in the free exercise and enjovment of all theire civill and religious rights, appertaining to them, as our loveing subjects; and to preserve unto them that libertye, in the true Christian ffaith and worshipp of God, which they have sought with soe much travaill, and with peaceable myndes, and lovall subjectione to our royall progenitors and ourselves, to enjoye; and because some of the people and inhabitants of the same colonie cannot, in theire private opinions, conforms to the publique exercise of religion, according to the litturgy, formes and ceremonyes of the Church of England, or take or subscribe the oaths and articles made and established in that behalfe; and for that the same, by reason of the remote distances of those places, will (as wee hope) bee noe breach of the unitie and unifformitie established in this nation: Have therefore thought ffit, and doe hereby publish, graunt, ordeyne and declare, That our royall will and pleasure is, that noe person within the sayd colonye, at any tyme hereafter, shall bee any wise molested, punished, disquieted, or called in question, for any differences in opinione in matters of religion, and doe not actually disturb the civill peace of our sayd colony; but that all and everye person and persons may, from tyme to tyme, and at all tymes hereafter, freelye and fullye have and enjoye his and theire owne judgments and consciences, in matters of religious concernments, throughout the tract of lance hereafter mentioned; they behaving themselves peaceablie and quietlie, and not useing this libertie to lycentiousnesse and profanenesse, nor to the civill injurye or outward disturbeance of others; any lawe, statute, or clause, therein contayned, or to bee contayned, usage or custome of this realme, to the contrary hereof, in any wise, notwithstanding. And that they may bee in the better capacity to defend themselves, in theire just rights and libertyes against all the enemies of the Christian ffaith, and others, in all respects, wee have further thought fit, and at the humble petition of the persons aforesayd are gratiously pleased to declare, That they shall have and enjoye the benefist of our late act of indempnity and ffree pardon, as the rest of our subjects in other our dominions and territoryes have; and to create and make them a bodye politique or corporate, with the powers and priviledges hereinafter mentioned.


No, Perry, the "wall between Church and State" did not come from the 60s counterculture.

Oh and all that Christian Warrior shiat is Dominionism . We had two full-on Dominionists running for President - Perry and Bachmann, and one Opus Dei - Santorum. What a frightening thing that was. We still have a Dominionist running around from the 2008 election still spilling her derp for people to slip on - Sarah Palin.

Read the link If someone starts talking about Christian Warriors or some such, they are dominionists. Notice how the beliefs of Dominionism mesh perfectly with today's GOP. That's the result of courting the nutjobs. It's exactly what Barry Goldwater was afraid of. "You will never be rid of them," he said.

I love to beat the American Taliban over the head with the above. They go away not having a response except "fark you."
 
2012-09-20 09:32:51 PM  

namatad: fusillade762: namatad: fusillade762: Well, Lucifer means "Light Bringer".

He's also sometimes called "Morning Star".

Reminds me of Lucifer from the Sandman series (gaiman)

Good eye :)

I THOUGHT that that was where it was from. But didnt want to guess and look stupid. HAHAHAHHA
Probably time to re-read those again. For Death, if no other reason. :D


After Sandman finished, Mike Carey wrote a 70 or so issue run of Lucifer, continuing where his character left off in the Sandman series. You should read it, it's pretty good.
 
2012-09-20 09:33:57 PM  
This
Perry said the separation of religious and civic institutions in the U.S. began with a "narrative" that first took root in the 1960s

has been bugging me all day. And now, I know why. Anyone want to guess what happened in the South in the 60s ?
 
2012-09-20 09:34:38 PM  

Weaver95: EatTheWorld: [herp] i'm wondering why you seem so desperate to change the subject....


Doesn't a strawman, by definition, require changing the subject?
 
2012-09-20 09:34:58 PM  
If I had a chin for every stupid thing Rick Perry's ever said or done, I would be a Chinese phone book.
 
2012-09-20 09:35:13 PM  

LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc: between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!

As an outside observer all I can conclude is that the republican party is going for the religious, jingoistic, nationalist moron vote this time around, and as it's the US it stands a slim chance of working...

This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.


I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome


'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.
 
2012-09-20 09:36:56 PM  

LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc: between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!

As an outside observer all I can conclude is that the republican party is going for the religious, jingoistic, nationalist moron vote this time around, and as it's the US it stands a slim chance of working...

This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome


No, genitive case. "It is" would make no sense.
 
2012-09-20 09:37:13 PM  

Kanemano: and by the way Rick, if you see your mom this weekend, be sure and tell her



Hahahaha. Great call. Sweat Loaf
 
2012-09-20 09:38:26 PM  
Rick Perry has his good days, he has his bad days. It's just that the bad ones happen every 23 hours.
 
2012-09-20 09:40:23 PM  

brukmann: LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc: between this guy and the legit rape guy I really have to ask W.T.F America??

seriously... WHAT THE fark IS GOING ON DOWN THERE????!!!!!

As an outside observer all I can conclude is that the republican party is going for the religious, jingoistic, nationalist moron vote this time around, and as it's the US it stands a slim chance of working...

This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome

'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.


I think you mean only *u's* 'it's'

Hey your welcome
 
2012-09-20 09:41:23 PM  
They say that every time a woman aborts her child, Rick Perry grows another chromosome.
 
2012-09-20 09:42:30 PM  
If Rick Perry were an anchor, his target would be _blank.
 
2012-09-20 09:43:09 PM  
It is wackos like this whut made our founding fathers put laws in place...no? When creating a more perfect union...yes? Where all are created equal...hmm? Life, liberty, happiness? Right?

/too many questions....?
 
2012-09-20 09:44:03 PM  
As a conservative Christian and a Texan,I have this to say to Perry and his ilk:
Morality can never be legislated.
Faith can never be legislated.
 
2012-09-20 09:44:17 PM  

MrHappyRotter: They say that every time a woman aborts her child, Rick Perry grows another chromosome.


So, he has a full set by now?
 
2012-09-20 09:44:19 PM  

simplicimus: No, genitive case. "It is" would make no sense.


Yet both of you missed "throws" instead of "throes"
 
2012-09-20 09:44:30 PM  
Thank GOD we have a pious man like Perry to lead us! Everyone else is a heathen or a backslider. Every single problem we have is because we turn our backs on the ways of righteousness. We are being punished for embracing the Gays, the Abortionists and the Socialisms. Please tell us what to do Perry , Save Us!

/ I'm sure we could storm the Iranian embassy and prove our devotion.
// or maybe launch an attack on California...

(SNARK OFF)
 
2012-09-20 09:44:39 PM  

umad: brukmann: LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc:
This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome

'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.

I think you mean only *u's* 'it's'

Hey your welcome


I think you mean *you're* welcome.

Hey you're welcome
 
2012-09-20 09:44:50 PM  

MrHappyRotter: If Rick Perry were an anchor, his target would be _blank.


First one was funny. I don't get this one.
 
2012-09-20 09:45:11 PM  

simplicimus: Don't Troll Me Bro!: So your god isn't the master of his domain? Why do you call him God?

Read the Book of Job. Two guys hanging out, torturing the fark out some guy to settle a bet.


Love that book. God let's Satan goad him into doing unspeakable things to a good man. Insecure? Check. Mean? Check. Immature? Check. Sociopathic? Check. Worthy of the title "God?" Nope.
 
2012-09-20 09:46:42 PM  

sweet-daddy-2: As a conservative Christian and a Texan,I have this to say to Perry and his ilk:
Morality can never be legislated.
Faith can never be legislated.


As a liberal Christian (well Catholic, so draw your own conclusion) and a Texan. I agree.
 
2012-09-20 09:47:19 PM  
This is pretty sweet

weaselzippers.us
 
2012-09-20 09:48:19 PM  

brukmann: umad: brukmann: LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc:
This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome

'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.

I think you mean only *u's* 'it's'

Hey your welcome

I think you mean *you're* welcome.

Hey you're welcome


ok. I can't tell who is farking around and who is being serious here anymore.
 
2012-09-20 09:51:05 PM  
No Govenor, its not Satan - its the farking CONSTITUTION you moron.

Constitutional law,ever heard of it motherfarker?
 
2012-09-20 09:51:05 PM  

bubo_sibiricus: simplicimus: No, genitive case. "It is" would make no sense.

Yet both of you missed "throws" instead of "throes"


I apologize. I am a slave to spellcheck.
 
2012-09-20 09:56:01 PM  
Don't blink, you might miss it when Rick Perry actually does something awesome for a change.
 
2012-09-20 09:57:46 PM  

umad: brukmann: umad: brukmann: LDM90: simplicimus: Gothnet: my herniated disc:
This time? We've been doing this for decades. What you are seeing is a nation in its death throws.

I think you mean *it's* death throws

Hey your welcome

'Its' is the possessive form. You absolutely only use 'it's' as a contraction like 'it is' or 'it has'.

I think you mean only *u's* 'it's'

Hey your welcome

I think you mean *you're* welcome.

Hey you're welcome

ok. I can't tell who is farking around and who is being serious here anymore.


You put forth the proposition that anyone here is being serious. I require more data.
 
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